Hi chibi, may I ask you a question about Ch151? I saw many theories conclude that Francis and Undertaker knew each other since Claudia's time. I wonder in japanese version if these two already say something canonically about it? I mean Undertaker may has been around Francis earlier, but Francis did she meet Undertaker at Vincent's time or when Claudia was still alive? Since many fans said that Francis knew Undertaker as her father, this made me so confused. Thank you!
There is no explicit information whatsoever in the original manga, but there is some indication judging from the language Frances uses to the Undertaker.
Frances’ use of language in Japanese
In chapter 151 when Frances addresses the Undertaker, she says the following:
“葬儀屋、お前はお兄様がご存命の頃から変わらないな”
“Undertaker, omae wa oniisama ga gozonmei no koro kara kawaranai na”
“Undertaker, you haven’t changed since the time when my (honourable) brother was alive.”
The most noteworthy elements in her language are indicated in bold, and I shall expand on why these are important underneath. (It will be lengthy, but please bear with me.)
‘Oniisama’ and ‘Gozonmei’
Frances is a noble lady, and in the manga she uses formal language to people she considers her peer or above. Despite her clear dislike for her brother, she never fails to address him properly as ‘oniisama’, or ‘honourable brother’, even when she is yelling at him, or after his death.
“Daitai oniisama wa mukashi kara souyatte…”
“(Honourable) brother, you have always been like this from the past…”
The ‘o’ and the ‘sama’ in ‘oniisama’ are honorifics in Japanese death trap, uh I mean polite language, ‘keigo’. Siblings normally don’t go beyond the expected politeness level of ‘oniichan/oneechan or niisan/neesan’. Frances however, uses both of the highest honorifics ‘o’ and ‘sama’.
I do not think Frances uses this formality for Vincent because she really looks up to him. Rather, I think Frances uses this formal language because she is a respectable lady, and not using formal language when referring to her older brother would be considered ‘unrefined’ and be held against her. In the same way, the ‘go’ in ‘gozonmei’ (ご存命・alive) is also a hyper formality, and a marker of her grace as a lady.
In Japanese, language is an exceptionally telling method with which speakers express their identity. Among other things, a speaker’s formality or informality is considered a strong language marker with which they can present themselves. The infinitely varied language quirks and markers don’t all have a perfect equivalent in English, and therefore translation is very tricky. As such, a one-on-one translation from ‘oniisama’ to ‘honourable brother’ every time is just very unnatural, hence it is omitted in English.
“葬儀屋、お前はお兄様がご存命の頃から変わらないな”
“Undertaker, omae wa oniisama ga gozonmei no koro kara kawaranai na”
“Undertaker, you haven’t changed since the time when my (honourable) brother was alive.”
In contrast to Frances’ hyper formality when speaking about her ‘honourable brother’, she uses informal language when talking about and to the Undertaker.
‘Omae’ (you (rude)), ‘Kawaranai na’ (haven’t changed) is informal speech. (Formal speech would have been ‘貴方’(anata) and ‘変わりませんね’ (Kawarimasen ne・have not changed).)
To me, this is an indication that Frances sees the Undertaker as below her rank. Frances using formal language for Vincent, while informal for Undertaker in the same sentence, is her implicitly differentiating the social hierarchy between Vincent and Undertaker. Consequently, I would say that Frances probably does NOT think that Undertaker is related to Claudia Phantomhive, because if she did believe so, Frances would most probably not have used this type of informal language.
Undertaker replies to Frances as follows:
“そうかい？小生にとってみれば君も生まれた頃がさっきのようだよ”
“Sou kai? Shousei ni totte mireba kimi mo umareta koro ga sakki no you da yo”
“Is that so? To me as well, it is as though you were born not very long ago.”
This line in Japanese is fairly standard and straighforward, and does not contain a lot linguistic hints. Undertaker merely seems to state that Frances did not change much either in his very, very old eyes. Rather than him dropping hints that he had met Frances at birth, I think it is more likely that he is playing it safe and not give Alexis Midford more reason to suspect the supernatural is involved. For more about R!Ciel hiding the involvement of the supernatural, click here.
There is no explicit information, but it is not impossible that Undertaker already met Frances during Claudia’s time when Frances was VERY young. But there is no information on whether Frances is actively aware of Undertaker’s presence during Claudia’s time. Frances’ and Undertaker’s interaction so far only indicates that there is no deep bond between them.
No indication of ulterior meaning
Japanese manga has a universal way to indicate when a spoken line contains an ulterior meaning.
In Sebas’ text he says: “… Yes, I shall serve the young master well as his butler,” after Tanaka refers to O!Ciel by this title for the first time. The dots next to the word “bocchan/young master” mean to indicate that the word pronounced by Sebas contains an ulterior meaning. Now in retrospect we know “Ciel” is in fact not O!Ciel’s name, and that therefore Sebas is using the title to refer to his master to dodge his real name because he cannot lie.
In Undertaker’s text, he says: “Both ‘body’ and ‘memory’ hosted by the brain remain in this world.” These dots again tells the reader the speaker refers to not just any world, but specifically the human world (as opposed to the Reaper’s world.)
These dots however, do NOT appear in Undertaker’s speech bubble in chapter 151.
Theory within the Japanese fandom
As I mentioned in another post, language shapes thought. As such, different theories may have emerged in the Japanese fandom. In the Japanese fandom, most people do not believe Undertaker is Frances’ and Vincent’s father, or Cedric K Ros.
Some arguments against Undertaker being the father as discussed in the Japanese fandom:
During the Boarding School Arc, Undertaker remained as fixated on O!Ciel as always, whereas he didn’t even bother batting an eye at Edward. Most of the Japanese fandom believe that Undertaker is only interested in the direct line of the Phantomhive family. Undertaker deliberately addressed Frances as ‘Lady Frances Phantomhive’, and this is considered a hint that his interest probably ends with her as a side-branch, and that this interest does not extend to her children. If Undertaker were Frances’ father, then this striking favouritism towards Vincent’s line would require some other explanation which is not in the manga canon (yet). As Yana has confirmed that Vincent and Frances are born of the same parents, this favouritism cannot be explained with “only Vincent is Undertaker’s child.”
Undertaker is a person who does not hide his emotions towards the Phantomhive tragedy very well. If just thinking about Vincent is enough to make him cry, then meeting Frances after such a long time would probably have stirred some emotions. This reunion would not necessarily be enough to make him cry, but the interaction with Frances would probably not have been as cheerful and aloof as in chapter 151.
During the Luxury Liner Arc too, Undertaker did not seem to care about the Midford family at all, despite clearly having had a lot of chance to reach out to them. Judging by Undertaker’s dodging skills as attested in the Boarding School Arc, he could easily have avoided O!Ciel and Sebastian during the first demonstration of the Aurora Society if he wanted to, but instead he chose to engage O!Ciel - ‘a main Phantomhive’. Yet again, we see a clear contrast between Undertaker’s interest in O!Ciel and the lack hereof for the Midfords.
Side-argument. Undertaker CAN’T be Cedric K. Ros: Undertaker is confirmed to have been a reaper for at least 70 years. 1889 - 70 = 1819. Claudia Phantomhive was born in 1830, which means that by the time she was born, Undertaker was already a reaper. In the family tree, Cedric K Ros was officially registered as her legal spouse. Had Claudia been a commoner, than marrying some random person that does not exist in the civilian personnel archive might have been possible. But considering how she was the Countess of Phantomhive, it would have been very troublesome to marry a man who does not officially exist.
Arguments supporting Undertaker being the father in the Japanese fandom come in far lesser quantities, but a few popular ones are as follows:
Frances’ platinum blond-grey-ish hair resembling Undertaker’s silver hair.
Elisabeth and Edward both having green eyes. But as all reapers get green eyes the moment they become one, this theory does not hold water.
The lack of information about Undertaker and Cedric K Ros allowing for intersection between them. So far - whatever little canon information there is about Undertaker and Cedric respectively do not exclude each other.
Undertaker’s obsession with Claudia clearly being the strongest, and leaves enough room for people to ship them romantically, and therefore having produced children. Most fans who do believe Undertaker and Claudia were romantically involved however, tend to believe Undertaker was the lover of Claudia, and not her spouse.
In short, so far in the Japanese fandom, there are more arguments against Undertaker being Vincent and Frances’ father than for.
