Exploring Tamamo's JP lines in Extra (Week 4)
https://www.tumblr.com/sunlitwateryheavens/821244041388867584/index-exploring-tamamos-jp-lines-in-extra
Legend:
JP: Original Japanese text.
EN: Official English localization.
RE: My attempt at a (usually more literal) translation.
This week: Fried tofu, rancid accusations, Polygamist Castration Fist, and the survey making slightly more sense in Japanese (barely).
Since the Rin/Rani routes are almost identical, I'll be checking both in parallel. All text is common to both routes unless I indicate otherwise.
Not much to say here. When Lil' Ronnie (the creepy clown) appears, in English, Caster wonders if she's a goblin. In Japanese, she wonders if she's a youkai.
As for Gatou, all of his lines are pure hell to parse, so I'm honestly just going to sort of ignore him. I don't envy the localizers one bit here.
W4D1 My Room generic chat
JP: おめでとうございます、ご主人様。色々と予定外のイベントはありましたが、無事、四回戦にまで辿り着きました。
EN: Congratulations, my dear Master! There were a few surprises along the way, but we made it to the fourth round.
Rather than a few "surprises" along the way, she's saying there were some "unexpected events". That's "events" said in English, which mainly refers to video game events. This is a fourth wall break that's lost in English.
I somehow hadn't seen this line until now. It's one of the possible lines for healing Caster while in the Arena:
JP: 感謝感謝。でも、たまには油揚げとか食べたいなー。
EN: Thank you, thank you. But could you get me something fried next time?
RE: Thank you, thank you. Though, every once in a while, I'd love to eat fried tofu.
She's talking of abura-age (油揚), which are thin deep-fried slices of tofu. In Japan, it is commonly considered that fried tofu is the favorite food of foxes.
At the beginning of the day, Caster:
JP: どうしました？ ご主人様[マスター]。 あっ、耳にピンときました。 また保健室のあの女のこと、考えてますね。
EN: What's the matter, Master? Wait, never mind. You're thinking about that girl in the nurse's office.
RE: What's the matter, Master? Ah, my ears are tingling. You're thinking again about that girl in the nurse's office.
She uses a lot of expressions that basically mean "my ears are tingling".
W4D3 Rediscover your origins
At early evening, Hakuno reminisces about their previous opponents. Then they lament that they still don't remember their identity.
JP: あのぉ……ご主人様[マスター]、 まだ気にしてるんですか？ ご主人様は今のままで、十分ステキですよ。
EN: Umm...are you still worried about that, my Master? I think you're wonderful just the way you are.
She's using suteki (lovely/charming) again.
JP: でも、そういう根源の悩みで悶えるのも いいと思います。
EN: Although, I have to applaud your earnest desire to rediscover your origins.
RE: Although, I think there's value in agonizing over one's own origins like that.
No subject, so she could also mean "agonizing over your own origins". I wonder if there's a double reading here. From Hakuno's perspective, they might interpret this as Caster simply saying that it's okay for her Master to worry. But instead, she might actually be showing empathy for a shared struggle.
As in: "I know how painful it is to obsess over your origins, because I do that too. But honestly, I think there is value in that struggle".
JP: ゆっくり考えて―― そして、答えが出たら、 私にも教えてくださいね。
EN: So, no need to hurry, but— If you do find your answers, you'll tell me, won't you?
RE: Take your time thinking it through— and once you find your answers, please tell me too, okay?
Which leads to Hakuno thinking something that otherwise doesn't make much sense:
JP: 少し引っかかる言い方ではあったが、その声色は優しい。
EN: Something about how she said all that kind of irked me, but I can't doubt her sincerity.
RE: Something about how she phrased that felt off, but her tone of voice was tender.
In the localization, Tamamo didn't say anything in particular that would "irk" Hakuno. But I assume this is referring to the line about "agonizing over one's own origins".
This chat unlocks when reaching a total 80,000 PPT. Caster congratulates you for being officially middle-class now.
JP: ま、だからなんだって話ですけど。 ムーンセルはケチなので、 この程度の称号じゃ電報一つよこしません。
EN: I know you don't care. And neither does the Moon Cell, so don't expect any acknowledgment of your solvency.
RE: Well, it's not like it matters. The Moon Cell is stingy, it won't send even one single telegram for a title this meager.
JP: 大きな金額になるまで声一つかけて来ないとか、どこの銀行屋だって話ですよ。
EN: Seriously, is the Moon Cell an investment banker? It's like we'll only mean something when we're rich!
RE: Not saying a word until you hit a massive sum, that's acting just like one of those money-shop guys.
"Bank" in Japanese is ginkou (銀行), and you form "banker" by adding the suffix -ka for ginkouka (銀行家). That would be formal and professional. She doesn't do that.
Instead, there's also the suffix -ya used for shops, like for bookstores and bakeries. And that is what she uses, forming ginkouya (銀行屋), which is not a real world you will find in a dictionary, but it would be like a pejorative "money-shop" or something.
JP: ま、そんな話はどうでもいいとして、お買い物に行きましょう、お買い物！
EN: Well, enough of that! Master, it's time to go shopping! Crass consumerism for the win!
RE: Well, enough of that! Let's go shopping, shopping!
JP: ね、ご主人様。 毛皮のコート……は趣味が悪いので、 上等な反物でも買ってくださいね❤
EN: Um, Master? Fur coats are a no-go for obvious reasons, so please find me a nice linen jacket. ❤
RE: Um, Master? A fur coat would be… in poor taste, so let's please buy some first-class kimono cloth. ❤
I have no clue how they get "linen jacket" from that. She talks of the fabric used to weave kimonos.
My Room: Rare enemy chat 1
You can beat your first rare Nephilim enemy on the previous day, so:
JP: レアエネミー、とでも言いましょうか。 あの連中は色々美味しいですから、 今後もきっちりやっつけていきましょうね❤
EN: What were they called again…rare enemies? They're so delightful that we should continue to slaughter them!
RE: I suppose we could call them Rare Enemies? Those guys give good loot, so let's make sure to continue beating them up from now on! ❤
She calls the Rare Enemies oishii (美味しい), which literally means delicious. They localized that as delightful. But oishii can also mean "profitable" as in an opportunity, so she's probably referring to the fact that the Nephilim are the common enemies that yield the most EXP, and can drop rare items.
Arena: Disappointing item
Possible line when finding an item:
JP: シケた内容ですね…… 場末の神社の賽銭箱かと思いました……。
EN: How disappointing… It's worse than the offerings from my rural shrines…
RE: What disappointing contents… I almost mistook this for the offering box of some run-down (Shinto) shrine…
She's not talking about HER shrines, just doing a comparison to some general shrine. The fact that she's mentioning Shinto shrines at all is already foreshadowing, but the localization maybe goes a tad too far with this.
W4D4 [Rani] Same as Arcueid
Tamamo has this line if you approach Gatou and Arcueid:
JP: 気をつけてマスター！ アレ私と同類！
EN: Watch out, Master! It's exactly like me, but not!
RE: Watch out, Master! That one is just like me!
She's saying that Arcuied is the same kind or in the same category as her. Perhaps she's referring to their similar personalities? Or the fact that both are possessive yanderes?
This is one of the very few scenes that has different lines depending on Hakuno's gender, although only at the very beginning.
JP:
Caster: まずは人中！ 次も人中！ トドメはやっぱり、さらに人中ーーーー！
Hakuno: ひたすら急所に三連撃である。 味方ながら、その発想が末恐ろしい。
EN:
Caster: First, strike the nose! Next, strike the chin! To finish, a strike to the throat!
Hakuno: Her strikes seem to make the air scream. Even as her Master, her expression…terrifies me.
RE:
Caster: First, (strike) the philtrum! Next, the philtrum again! And for the finishing blow, sure enough, the philtrum once moreー!
Hakuno: A relentless three-hit combo aimed at a weak point. Although she's an ally, that approach terrifies me.
(If you don't know, the philtrum is the groove between your nose and your upper lip.)
JP:
Caster: まずは金的っ！ 次も金的っ！ 懺悔しやがれ、コレがトドメの金的だーー！
Hakuno: いま、心の底から彼女が味方である事に感謝した。 あれを受ける 敵サーヴァント…男性限定…には同情を禁じ得ない。
Caster: よし、一夫多妻去勢拳、完成です！ ハーレム展開なんて、 神が許してもこの私が許しません！
Hakuno: 待て。 それは、誰に使う事を、想定したものですか？
EN:
Caster: First, strike the crotch! Next, REALLY strike the crotch! Repentance through crotch violence!
Hakuno: I take a moment to thank every deity imaginable that she's my ally. Though they are my foes, I feel really sorry for other Servants…especially the male ones.
Caster: Behold my Polygamist Castration Fist! Other deities may allow harems, but never will I!
Hakuno: Wait. Who exactly will you be using that on?
The localization is perfectly fine. But some notes.
For "crotch", she uses the very casual kinteki (金的). I wouldn't say it's vulgar, but it's a very crude term. And to be very clear, this doesn't refer to the entire groin area, but specifically to, uh, the jewels.
In the "other deities may allow harems" part, she's actually saying something like "harem scenarios". As in, the trope. As in, she developed this technique to keep harem scenarios from happening.
And Polygamist Castration Fist is ipputasai kyosei ken (一夫多妻去勢拳), which is literally Polygamy Castration Fist.
Anyway, the threads then join here, and Hakuno asks her why she's training her physical strength, thinking:
JP: キャスターの売りは魔術なんだから、肉体強化や防御の魔術を鍛えればいいのに。
EN: Caster's thaumaturgy skills are where her strength lies. She should focus on developing those and her defense.
RE: Since Caster's selling point is her magecraft, she should focus on physical reinforcement and defensive magecraft.
This line was always weird in the localization, because we all know Casko's defense is trash, so why would Hakuno recommend developing that? But what Haku's actually recommending is that Caster focuses on using her magecraft to reinforce her body and defense (think of Aphotic Cave).
JP: そんなのもう使ってます。肉体強化とか常時使ってないと、他のサーヴァントと戦いなんてできません。
EN: I'm already good with those things. If I don't up my overall strength, I won't be able to fight other Servants.
RE: I already do that. If I weren't constantly using physical reinforcement, I wouldn't even be able to fight other Servants.
JP: ご主人様？ 私、か弱い女の子なんですから。 そのあたり、ちゃんと憂慮してくださいね。
EN: I'm just a fragile, delicate little girl, Master. So please take care of me as best you can.
RE: Master? I am a fragile little girl. Please make sure to take that into account and worry about me properly.
So, Hakuno asks why she's even bothering to train her strength, instead of just using spells to reinforce her body. Caster explains that she already does that, and in fact she wouldn't be able to survive fights otherwise. Because she's just a fragile little girl underneath all the magic. Then she tries to fish for a teensy little bit of sympathy.
JP: 英霊だからといって頼りきるのは良くない。 ちゃんと、ひとりの人間として手を取り合わないと。
EN: I can't solely rely on her powers as a Heroic Spirit. I have to remember that in some ways she's all too human.
RE: It's not right to rely on her just because she's a Heroic Spirit. We need to support each other properly, as individuals.
JP: キャスターは机で作った座敷に正座すると、 一枚の半紙を取り出した。 半紙には筆で、 『今回の対戦相手について』 と書かれている。
EN: As Caster sits in a demure pose on her platform of desks, she takes out a piece of paper. On it is written: -About this round's opponent- in suspiciously red ink.
RE: Caster sat seiza-style on the makeshift seating area she had created from the desks, and took out a sheet of calligraphy paper. In the paper, in brush calligraphy it was written: "About our current opponent".
The "suspiciously red ink" bit is made-up. And seiza is a traditional, formal Japanese seating position. It's the pose Caster always takes when sitting atop the desks, kneeling and folding her legs:
JP: ささ、軽い気持ちで答えちゃってください。
EN: Please take some time to think before answering.
RE: Then, please just answer without taking it too seriously.
The original Japanese says the opposite! I don't imagine this is a mistranslation, because the sentence is as straightforward as they come, which makes me wonder if this was a conscious localization choice. This survey is extremely important in that it can lock you out of her full matrix and backstory, so it's kind of devilish (but very in-character) for her to tell you not to take it too seriously. But maybe the English localizers thought that it was too wicked for the game to pretend like this scene doesn't matter?
JP: 『大量虐殺ってどう思います？』
EN: -What are your thoughts on genocide?-
JP:
問答無用に許されざる行為だ。
問答はするが罰せられる行為だ。
……なにこの質問？
EN:
It's an unforgivable act.
It will always be a punishable act.
…What kind of question is this?
RE:
It's not up to discussion, it's an unforgivable act.
It IS up to discussion, but it's an act that must be punished.
…What kind of question is this?
There's a bit of a play on words on the second option, based on the idiom used on the first one. But it's basically "I'd be willing to debate the circumstances, but it's still an act that should be punished."
The first option is the worst (+0 points) and the second is the best (+2 points). And you can see that in Japanese, the first option is a bit more hostile ("It's not up to discussion") while the second one is a bit more understanding ("It IS up to discussion"). Which explains her reactions a little better.
The only response that contains an interesting tidbit is the +2 one:
JP: そうでなくては世が立ち行かぬ。お上もご主人様も、たいへん正しい見解です。
EN: Without consequences, the world would descend into chaos. You have a refined sense of justice, Master.
RE: Without consequences, the world would descend into chaos. Both those in power and you, Master, hold a very proper view.
She speaks of the okami (お上) "those in power". This term mainly refers to the government, the authorities. But historically, this also referred to the Emperor…
JP: 『あるいは、人間じゃないものについて』
EN: -Regarding all things non-human.-
(No, that isn't a question in Japanese either.)
JP:
可愛ければなんでもアリ。
気にしないが、問題ではある。
……だから、なにこの質問？
EN:
Doesn't matter. Cute is cute.
It'd be an issue, but not a big one.
…Again, what's with this question?
RE:
Anything goes as long as they're cute.
It doesn't bother me, but it is a problem.
…Again, what's with this question?
The second option is the worst (+0 points), but it might not be entirely clear why in the English localization, which softens this option a little. In Japanese, Hakuno clearly states that it IS a problem.
And again, the only response I'll briefly mention is the +2 one:
JP: 我が道を往くにも程があります。そんなご主人様に畏敬の念を抱きつつ、将来がちょっとだけ心配な私なのでした。
EN: Even I will only go against the grain so much. While I do respect my dear Master, I do worry about our future.
She doesn't speak of mere respect, but of ikei no nen (畏敬の念), which are feelings of awe and veneration. It's like a mix of respect and fear. Like a "you're such an apologetic weirdo that I'm actually impressed".
W4D5 [Rani] About True Ancestors
Before fighting Berserker Arcueid, Tamamo says something really weird:
JP: はあ、真祖ぉ……？ なにそれ、どこのマイナー系創作暗黒神話 だっつーの。
EN: What's a True Ancestor? Is that some kind of minor creation myth?
RE: Huh, True Ancestooor…? What is that, some form of niche dark fantasy novel?
Literally, she says something like "niche creative work about a dark myth". She's effectively saying that the term True Ancestor seems as if taken from an edgy grimdark fanfic. (Also, given that we know that Casko's dialogues were written by Nasu, does this count as a self-burn?)
JP: あ、いや、でも力だけは桁違いかも？ ムーンセルと相性がいいんでしょうねぇ……
EN: Wait, her myth has something to do with the Moon Cell. She could treat the SE.RA.PH like a Reality Marble!
RE: Ah, wait, but isn't her power on a completely different level? I guess she has good compatibility with the Moon Cell…
There's no mention of Reality Marbles in the original. I don't know what's up with that.
W4D5 [Rin] Rancid accusation
What's that, my friend? Someone insulted your waifu? On the Internet? That simply will not stand! But fret not! For here, courtesy of our good friend Vlad III the Impaler, we have perhaps the most famous reaction image in all of Extra. Your go-to when someone dares suggest that Nero is too short to reach any shelves, or that Tamamo would leave fur everywhere, or that technically Nameless shouldn't even count as a waifu. You hit them with the good ol':
"I cannot let this rancid accusation against my wife stand."
JP: その事実を踏まえた上で、なお我が妻を怪物というのなら。その証をたてるがいい、戦士よ。
EN: I cannot let this rancid accusation against my wife stand.
RE: Even knowing that fact (that humans are the true monsters), you still insist on calling my wife a monster. Then, prove it (with your life), warrior.
I mean, the vibe is the same. You called the creepy clown girl a monster, and Vlad takes offense and starts talking in a very dramatic and archaic fashion while defending her, ready to throw hands. But yeah, the localization for this line is simply divine.
After beating Vlad, Hakuno shows some pity for him for having become a monster. Then Caster:
JP: 純粋すぎたんですね。 他者に理解できないほどの純粋さ。 その果てにあるのが「怪物」。
EN: When you love too much, nobody can understand you anymore. And what people don't understand, they fear.
RE: (His love/devotion) was too pure. A purity so great that others simply couldn't comprehend it. And at the end of that path lies the "monster".
JP: 私だって、一歩間違ったら…… いえ、一度は――。
EN: If I'd done one or two things wrong, I would have been called a monster, too… Well, once I—
RE: Even I, had I taken one wrong step… no, there was one time—
JP: なーんて。 怪物は、やっつけちゃうのが物語！ だからガツーンと一発かましましょう！
EN: I'm just kidding! Heroes like us hunt monsters! So let's show them what we're made of!
RE: I'm just kidding! The point of a story is to defeat the monster! So let's hit them hard!
The second line is cut short, but from context, the best guess is that she meant to say "no, there was one time I was called a monster too".
W4D7 [Rani] Elevator descent: Gatou-Arcueid
Gatou says… well, Gatou things, and Caster asks you to please plug your ears. In fact, she'll offer to do it herself! Because:
JP: あ、私の事ならいいんです。自分の耳を塞ごうにもどうせ手が足りませんから……。
EN: Oh, no need to worry about me. Also, there aren't enough hands to go around to cover my ears…
RE: Oh, no need to worry about me. Even if I tried to cover my own ears, I wouldn't have enough hands anyway…
Yes, she's implying she has four ears (human set + fox set).
Arcueid Matrix: True Ancestor
This entry ends with this line:
JP: 余談ではあるが、狐耳のキャスターは同類っぽいので気が合うのでは、と推測される。
EN: And on a totally unrelated note, the fox-eared Caster gets along very well with her as it is believed that they share the same basic origins.
RE: As a side note, since the fox-eared Caster is of a similar-ish nature, it is speculated that they would get along well.
First, this doesn't actually say that they DO get along, it just proposes it as a conjecture (と推測される).
Then, to compare the two, the matrix uses the same term (同類) that Tamamo herself used before on W4D4, but adding ppoi (っぽい) to form something like "similar-ish".
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