Catchy title, I know. But before you read this, this is a lot more explicit than my usual tumblr discourse. Lots of discussion of sex below, in detail that is not prurient but is straightforward and very plain-spoken. If you are not into reading about sex, please don’t read this. Please. You will just be upset. And if you don’t know what “top” and “bottom” means, double don’t read this. I guarantee it is not for you.
Hey Cassie, about the top/bottom thing: I don’t know how people ask you these questions, but the just the question if someone tops or bottoms or likes switching is not homophobic at all. Some queer guys define as either top or bottom, some don’t. (Magnus and Alec would propably switch, I just think Magnus would top more, because he’s more experienced, and there are for sure some techniques, but Alec would top sometimes as well, because he likes to tie Magnus up). BUT I’ve also seen (mostly with the LouisxHarry shippers from One Direction) fangirls ranting on and on about how one of them strictly bottoms/tops, based on personality and physical statue, and they literally hate the girls with the other opinion. And that’s some unrealistic, homophobic shit going on in that fandom (especially because the Harry and Louis are real people), and it’s mostly young fangirls. So I guess it depends how people ask you that question, but I don’t think it’s homophobic/projecting that man/woman thing into them in general. (I could ask my friends if they’re top or bottom or like switching and they wouldn’t be mad at me, probably just weirded out because I’m interested in their sexlife) — lsd-in-wonderland
I totally understand why it’s startling to consider that asking a question you might ask a friend could be seen as homophobic. Sure, some gay men do define themselves as tops and bottoms. But there are lots of ways members of communities describe one another that don’t come off the same way when used by outsiders. Your friends are going to give you the benefit of the doubt about your intentions. It doesn’t mean all strangers on the Internet should be treated the way you treat people who know you.
First, I want to say that this is not in any way about most Malec fans. It is not about anyone who has ever wondered about their sexy times or written sexy fanfic. All of that is cool. Now is also where we could probably use a restating of the basic premise of deeply culturally embedded homophobia, which is that you can commit a homophobic act *without intending to*. Those who are told that they have said a homophobic thing often defend themselves by saying they “aren’t homophobes,” as though “homophobe” is an ethnicity or a hometown. To quote the inimitable Jay Smooth, it’s important this is a “what you said” conversation and not a “who you are” conversation. If you’ve asked me if Alec or Magnus is top or bottom, or speculated about it aloud, you have not suddenly transmogrified into some terrible beast called “a homophobe” if you accept the point here. You just might want to try to bring a little more conscious thought into the way you interact with sexualities (and races and genders) the owners of whom have a history of being treated as less than fully human because of who they are.
Secondly, I am a straight person, so to some extent, what do I know? My expertise here comes mostly from being the person who has read the most stuff about Malec in the history of ever and fielded the most questions. I thought before I answered this, I’d ask my friend Steve Berman if I was being ridiculous. (He also beta-reads for me, and is the first one to kick me for showing signs of internalised homophobia.) Steve is the founder of Lethe Press, and the most prolific editor in the field of queer speculative fiction alive today, responsible for over twenty-five anthologies in that field alone (Wikipedia). He’s the author of Vintage, a novel of ghosts and boys in love which I heartily recommend. He had this to say:
"Because our society likes its binaries, we have come to view (gay) sex as topping and bottoming. And that a man must have a preference… I’ve been with young guys that are drag queens and they have topped guys. At 20, I weighed 110lbs and stood 5'9 and was a virgin and my first sex act was to top an older, much more experienced gay man. If you had asked me if I was a top or a bottom I wouldn’t have known what you were talking about and then, after an explanation, would have shrugged. I didn’t know then. I don’t classify myself now, more than two decades latter as a top or a bottom. Boys in high school are having sex and they are spending a lot of time trying to figure out what they enjoy and every time is different.
Gay men looking for hook-ups will use the terms “top” and “bottom” because it defines what they are seeking at that moment. But I question a guy that defines himself by one side of an act that we don’t really spend that much time doing.
If a stranger asked me whether I was a top or bottom, I would wonder why the individual was being so nosy. Is it to suggest I’m feminine, that I’m submissive, that I’m masculine and dominant? Sheesh, how boring, how dull. Asking someone if they’re a bottom or a top, unless you are trying to hook up with them, means you are prying into their sex life, and are ascribing to them qualities of femininity or masculinity based on their sexual position preference.
Also, if you have more experience, you should bottom. Not top.“
He explained to me that last bit in great detail which I probably can’t go into here but it was very convincing. Then we talked about Magnus and Alec for like half an hour and now my head feels like a balloon.
I’ve certainly seen a few posts saying that I should not have suggested that repeated inquiries about the intimate particulars of Alec and Magnus’ sex life was rooted in a worldview connected with homophobic stereotypes. However none of them quite explain why “who bottoms and who tops” is important knowledge that people need to have in order to understand these characters, when there is no commensurate belief that anyone needs to know anything about how the straight people have sex in order to decide what kind of people they are.
The fact is that people speak differently about my POC characters than they do my white characters. People speak differently about my female characters than my male characters. And people talk differently about Alec and Magnus than they do my straight characters. There’s more infantilization (“my poor wooby baby”) of Alec, more treating him as if he were a child in need of constant coddling by all the other characters. And way, way, way, more speculation about the specifics of Alec and Magnus’ sex life. (And weirdly, a lot of misogyny and girl hate, a lot of privileging Alec’s sexuality over say, Clary’s — which is odd because it would be strange for Alec to despise people who were attracted to women, or the sexuality of women, when his boyfriend is bi and loves women. But that is a whole other post.)
Years ago, and I don’t think this is the case any more, the media watchdog site Common Sense Media partnered with Barnes and Noble. The idea was that the Common Sense reviews would highlight whatever was “problematic” in a book so that parents could judge if their child should read it.
There were various sections — drinking, swearing, disobedience — and also sexuality. Under sexuality for the City of books was listed “A major character is gay.”
The warning was on City of Bones, in which Alec doesn’t even have a relationship. Apparently Alec just standing around, being gay, was a sexual act. I mention this because as the custodian of my ask box and the receiver of ninety billion questions about Magnus and Alec’s sex life over the past few years, I can answer your question about “how” people usually ask if Magnus and/or Alec is a top or a bottom: they usually invoke anime tropes that I don’t know anything about. They usually ask who is submissive and who is dominant. They usually as who is the boy and who is the girl. They ask who takes it up the ass. These questions can’t really be pulled apart from “who tops and who bottoms” because they are intertwined almost every single time.
On twitter, I wrote that no one ever asked me about whether Clary preferred being on top or on the bottom, but that was just one example — the whole truth is far more troubling. People just don’t ask about positions or fetishes or sexual details when it comes to straight characters. But they ask constantly about Alec and Magnus because apparently Alec and Magnus’ sexual preferences impact the perception of them as people in a way that never happens for straight characters. Ever.
I’ve seen it said that people don’t ask if Jace or Clary is on top because they are “not aware of strap-ons” which 1) posits a world in which people are completely aware of “topping” and “bottoming” and have associated with those words an entire universe of largely imaginary characterization notes about gay men but have never heard of a strap-on, which…is not my experience of the world we live in and 2) posits that Clary could only penetrate Jace if she had a strap-on. Not so. All human beings of all sexualities are capable of a vast myriad of sexual activities. Clary just like Magnus and Alec has the physical ability to penetrate Jace–it’s just we think the penis is magically super more important than, say, fingers. It is not. Yes, Magnus and Alec have more penises than Jace and Clary combined (one more, to be exact) but most of the stuff they are and would ever be doing is more similar than different.
Also, you just know Simon and Isabelle are into some kinky stuff. I mean if anyone is tying anyone up … They’re into role-play, Isabelle owns a whip?
Just saying. Nobody “has to top.” Penetrative sex is not limited to those with penises and people with penises may choose to never have penetrative sex. All this asking about who is the bottom and who is the top, all this associating it with ideas about what kind of people these characters are, all the stuff tying it into dominance and submission — it is gender normative stuff. It is not explicit, but it is constantly implied. And problematic because it automatically both privileges male sexuality and others gay men — they become sex wizards for whom bottoming and topping is the online equivalent of what Hogwarts house they’re in. It is a convenient piece of characterization shorthand that has little to do with what actual gay men do in their actual lives.
Alec and Magnus’ sex life is an open topic and up for grabs the way Tessa and Will’s isn’t because apparently Magnus and Alec just existing is a sex act. The constant asking about Magnus and Alec’s sex life is homophobic for the same reason that constantly asking about the genitals of transgender people is transphobic, because these kind of questions just don’t get asked to or about cisgender people. You can point at this one specific individual instance and say "This was fine! It wasn’t homophobic!” but it requires ignoring all of the societal context in which in the question was asked its entirety. It requires not looking at the patterns. And it makes me wonder why there are people who want to excuse it so badly?
There is an implied sex scene with Magnus and Alec in the books. I thought it was pretty clear who was on top (in that instance, though I didn’t think it implied anything about what they might choose to do the next day). Oddly no one ever seems to pick up on it but raging homophobes who are really angry about how “obvious” and “explicit” it was. It’s a strange world.
I can’t help you with the One Direction stuff. I don’t even know who Louis is. O_O
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