Let’s not focus on the flaws in this season, but what about the positives? After watching the six episodes, I really feel like Caryl is definitely going to happen.
The big positive is Melissa McBride. I wouldn't have even tried to watch if not for her. Her performance was top-notch and she stays true to who Carol is, even when bad writing got in the way (which it did a lot).
I'm glad you're feeling good about Caryl. While I did see certain subtext, their arc was painful in the worst possible way because of Daryl's split personality and the stubborn refusal to let their relationship grow organically. They aren't even the center of what's supposed to be their own story. I'm not comfortable encouraging anybody to ignore the "flaws." If we ignore them, then there's no hope of changing them and something definitely has to change. Look at how the EPs are behaving. Zabel basically tells Carol/Caryl fans to fuck off a month before the premiere and now Nicotero is out there saying they "don't write the show for the fans." That sentiment comes across very clearly in TBOC and it will continue as long as these guys are still the ones in charge of Daryl's and Carol's story.
I'm probably an idiot, but what are the positives? I love Melissa and thought her performance was wonderful, but the storyline feels like an afterthought and it's not connected to the main plot. Daryl looks constipated every time Sophia is brought up and it takes forever for him to explain about Laurent to Carol or why there's a fire under his ass. She has to run after him, like a dog and beg for answers.
Melissa is so gorgeous I don't understand why, most of the times, in premieres and stuff she doesn't dress anything that compliments her figure. She's usually behind layers and layers...
If I was as beautiful as her I would only wear things that enhanced my beauty.
I get where you're coming from, but I think Melissa wears what she's comfortable in?
We're used to female 'Hollywood stars' showing a lot of skin or in very formfitting stuff, but I think there are a lot of reasons why Melissa would choose to be layered up. For one, she already gets a ton of online abuse about her hair color, so imagine if she catered more to the male gaze on the red carpet? We'd never hear the end of how desperate she is for a man or how she's trying to lure Norman with her feminine wiles.
She has a beautiful proportional body, but there are reasons why women don't want men to take note of that. I'm in college and I already have scary stories about men. I imagine Melissa does too.
Some women dress more modest for religious reasons and Melissa had a faith-grounded upbringing in the South, so that could have influenced her sense of personal style?
Some women run colder than average and have to layer up even in warm climates. Thyroid issues are pretty common.
There's also the misogynist stance that women need to dress their age, so not too much leg, cleavage, bare arms or midriffs. No chicken wings, muffin tops, etc. regardless of if they're real or imagined.
I know you're talking about public appearances, but as fans, we have no idea how Melissa dresses in her private life. I like that she wears clothes to please herself, not some guy or audience expectations. I think it's admirable and refreshing, and her layered bohemian look fits the public persona she projects of a funny off-beat dork.
A whole post on Girl Matters™ hahaha Thanks for the ask, anon!
This might be a dumb question but I was wondering how we know that the last page of leaked pages is the actual last? I had saw some pics of them on the bike together that someone was claiming “the end” if you know what I’m referring to, can I ask where you think these fit it, before the tunnel etc?
Hi! 👋🏽 It's not a dumb question! I'm not an expert at deciphering scripts either.
I think the bike ride is right before the tunnel since Caryl have to get there somehow. There are pictures floating about online from the sets inside the tunnel, with beds and stuff. Doesn't look like you could bring a motorcycle with you.
The final page where Caryl vanish from view looks the typical fade to black in movies, right? The last words have a note of finality to them too, "becoming ever smaller in the frame as they recede," and I want to say that this was the last bit that was filmed... in Pas-de-Calais somewhere?
So whoever said that the bike ride is at the end was right, but it's not the very end. Hope that makes it clearer!
I want to like the show because I love Melissa McBride. I've anticipated her return.
But I didn't enjoy season 1 and everything about the show is the same as it was then, with the addition of Carol and a subtitle. Same writers, same ship bait, same monster makeup guy.
So maybe I have to face that the show has something to offer people who liked the first season, but there isn't much for me? I don't want to watch Carol on the sidelines of someone else's story. I did that in season 11 and it's not for me.
Tumblr seems massively glitchy as this post also says, "some replies may have been hidden, blocked, or removed." If your comment doesn't show up, please, know that I haven't deleted anything. I can't see the comments either.
I want to like the show because I love Melissa McBride. I've anticipated her return.
But I didn't enjoy season 1 and everything about the show is the same as it was then, with the addition of Carol and a subtitle. Same writers, same ship bait, same monster makeup guy.
So maybe I have to face that the show has something to offer people who liked the first season, but there isn't much for me? I don't want to watch Carol on the sidelines of someone else's story. I did that in season 11 and it's not for me.
Is that really supposed to be "the best one-hour Walking Dead anything ever"??? What's on those script pages is weak af
Yes, this is "the best one hour" etc., which sure, that's subjective, but I don't agree with Norman Reedus. The writing is weak, some of the stuff is offensive (Holocaust imagery) and there's no canon, or even a hug after nearly dying. I expected more after all the hype and hearing how much agency McReedus have.
I know things change from page to screen, but they have to film the "good things" to begin with for that to be in the finished version. I want canon!! Not "all right, then." There's not even a "gotta be" in response to "You okay?" 😭😭😭 The dialogue is horrible.
The plot has weird logical holes too, like talking while in poisonous gas before putting on gas masks and they're obviously going north to England. How do Caryl end up in Spain??
[comments by @ilovescaryl, @mementomorlllll & @gatbsythegreat ]
I don't know if the crossed out sections are cut scenes, but I do know that things, like canon, won't appear onscreen without being written into the script. It's not improv theater. Things also have to be filmed in order for them to be shown, no matter how it's edited. If they didn't shoot an embrace, a kiss or Caryl frantically checking each other over to make sure they're both all right, we won't get to see it.
Caryl will still be down in the tunnel, getting gassed and seeing dead people because that seems to be the plot, even if they cut the ship bait. The dialogue is still stilted and dumb, even if the delivery is magnificent. Melissa McBride will be breathtaking if they didn't cut her big Sophia scene to make room for the nun, but the scene itself is uninspired.
I want more than what's in those images. I would expect Melissa to want something poignant and subtle and nuanced because Sophia obviously means a lot to her. I hate it if the gas induced goodbye hallucination is what David Zabel gave her instead of what she wanted. Seeing Sophia is going to be polarizing anyway because she's such an iconic character and going by the sneak preview of the season premiere, we won't get to see her face on the show. I understand the reason why, but I also think it takes away from the emotional impact if we don't see her eyes.
I want my enthusiasm back because I waited so long for Carol, but those scenes feel underwhelming.
I’m not restricting or deleting anything. I assume it’s the person who replied who deleted their comments. It wasn’t me. I’ll respond to comments and ask tomorrow because it’s very late here.
As long as nobody is verbally abusive, feel free to express your feelings.
Anon who asked me about "sides" in the caryl fandom and which one I place myself on because you believe I "switched sides"/changed my opinions:
I'm not posting your ask because you named people and that's not something I do on my blog or generally agree with. The only instance you'll find me naming or tagging people is in fic recs posts, so that caryl authors who are on Tumblr can read them and be found by readers who'd like to reach out.
If you have a problem with the opinions, feelings and/or behaviors of a particular individual/blog, I ask you to 1) please reach out to them directly so you can express your disagreement or 2) use your block button, so you no longer see content you don't like. I believe that our fandom is big enough to hold every single caryler out there who wants to join in, regardless of their opinions, posts or feelings. People should feel free and safe to post whatever they want, either 'positive' or 'negative'. I have no problem with anyone in the fandom and I respect everyone's opinions, even when I disagree with some stuff I read.
Please, I ask you to not use my ask box to indirectly badmouth, bully or attack any caryler.
That said, the answer to your question is after the cut.
I'm not on either "side" and never have been. I'm just another enthusiastic fan that loves Carol and Daryl. Since joining the Tumblr fandom just before the pandemic (I was a lurker for many years), I've been using my own critical thinking skills and knowledge of AMC's shenanigans to form my own opinions.
I'm confident in TBOC because I believe there are concrete reasons that support how I'm feeling, from Melissa's return, to filming spoilers and rumors, to Tribeca and SDCC. You're free to agree or disagree with my interpretation of these facts, and to feel positive or negative about it.
I also continue to believe that AMC/Gimple hijacked the original caryl spinoff to highlight the richonne spinoff because it follows similar decisions made before to give Rick more screen time at the expense of all the other TWD characters. I believe Melissa had no choice but to opt out of the original spin-off and negotiate new terms to ensure that Carol's (and therefore Caryl's) story was respected and told with integrity. To me, that's why there were things to be sorted out, as she said, and why she lengthily discussed Carol with Zabel and co. even before scripts for the France spinoff were written. She was involved since the beginning, yes, but she only signed on when she got what she wanted. There is no greater supporter of Carol than Melissa and we have known this for years. I'm glad she's back in her own terms. I believe it was a pretty difficult time for her, as she expressed it by basically refusing to promote 11C or the series finale, and by not saying anything about the whole mess on SM, while other cast members/friends such as Laurie Holden and Khary Payton spoke out in her behalf.
I believe AMC tried to make money off just Daryl because he's their original character and it backfired in their faces. They also made a mistake using Norman to save face as he should have been protected from the SM backlash. Norman has never been a reliable narrator and I always take every thing he says with a grain of salt, but I don't think he's intentionally malicious. I appreciate how much he loves Daryl and is considerate of his fans, even when I don't approve of his behavior. I just wish he would keep his frustrating mouth shut. I believe Norman had lots of input in S1 and that he initially thought he could pull it off without Melissa. But there's no Daryl without Carol and no Carol without Daryl. It's crystal clear how much Norman's happy for having Melissa by his side, and how much they love each other and are excited for S2. I'm glad they are reunited, both for them and for us, but I believe everything worked out in the end because Melissa didn't give up on getting what she wanted. I believe she had lots of inputs in S2 and is satisfied and happy with the final result.
So, that's how I believe things have gone these last two years. Again, feel free to agree or disagree with my interpretation of facts. None of us will ever know exactly what happened, but each of us can decide what to believe based on our own judgment of the facts. That's what I do and will continue to do.
In the end, for me, the important thing is that Melissa and Norman are happy and that Carol and Daryl get their hard-earned happy ending. It's everything I ever wanted and I'm going to enjoy it. I hope you enjoy it too.
It sounds like Caryl fandom is turning into a dumpster fire if there's a corridor of approved opinions and dissent isn't tolerated. I see what I see, you see what you see. We have different experiences and different ways of looking at things, and in a democracy that should be tolerated as long as it's not filled with hate speech and an incitement to violence.
Why do I have to pick a side? I have to do that when I go vote, I don't want to do it in fandom. I don't want to be told what opinions to hold. If I did, I'd move to North Korea where no one is allowed to think for themselves. I don't know any of these factions and I don't want to join some sort of hive mind to be accepted in this fandom.
If you don't like me solely based on my insistence on my constitutional right to freedom of expression and my human right to freedom from oppression (even in the form of fandom bullying), I think that says more about you than it does me. Feel free to block and mute me as you see fit, but we can't suffocate each other into silence because we don't agree on everything.
My Tumblr account is a hate free space. I will state what I don't or do like about the show and I will continue to gush about Melissa. If your opinion differs from mine, I respect that, but I'm allowed to hold an opinion too, even if it isn't the same as yours.
I really like the tagline of "some bonds have no borders," but I'm bothered by the positioning of Laurent and Isabelle as shipbait. All those snippets edited together to imply a family unit feel very dishonest and it doesn't work to get me excited about the season.
The trailer is, as trailers usually are, very action oriented, so it's hard to say what's in store. I know Caryl will leave together at the end, but I need and want more than the "friend" narrative. I want canon without ambiguity.
Superficial take, Daryl still looks hot swinging a morningstar.
Girl note #3: Melissa's dress at SDCC hinted at the right hip to waist ratio and hugged her boobs just right. Suggestion, not an itemized content declaration. Like a good gift wrap 😉
I watched the first 10 minutes of the season premiere and I love that we get to see Carol again!
Some very light spoilers under the cut:
Melissa was stellar 💖 Carol was a badass and I like to see that, but I hope we get more sides to her in the full episode than just action hero. I did love seeing her ride the bike and shoot the crossbow like the boss bitch she is 💘💘
The dialogue felt clunky, but the cinematography was gorgeous. 6 to 1 and half a dozen of the other, maybe? 🤔 Not covering up all her freckles was the best cinematographic option! Better than France lol
Girl opinion #2: I don't like the cut of Carol's pants. Melissa has long legs and these pants aren't making the most of them. Tapered doesn't look good on anyone, plus they're all scrunchy weird on top. Find the woman some damn pants that will hug her ass!
I've been rewatching season 11 because of @9lives2mics's episode breakdowns and Caryl has that "divorced but not done with each other" energy the whole season, but IT DOESN'T GO ANYWHERE. Makes me sad, but now I wonder if there are any divorced Caryl or trial separation fics because I crave a reconciliation payoff to all that tension and buildup.
And for the love of whatever deity the boss of AMC prays to, give us CARYL CANON in The Book of Carol! I need a reunion more poignant than Terminus and all the fans who've invested +12 years into the show deserve it 💘
I'm so excited for Melissa/Carol stuff from SDCC. We waited so long for this and I'm a little scared too. I need to stow my anxiety somewhere, so I'm tempted to drive down to San Diego despite not having a ticket. Night drive could be fun, right??
This is such a girl thing to say, but I feel like Carol's hair can never catch a proper break. It's either too short or too frizzy, or like here, where makeup has tried to tame its wildness by...flattening it. Carol is a "wild thing," why not let her hair reflect that?? That aside, love the wardrobe, love that we get to see her on the bike. I just have my fingers crossed that badass action figure Carol isn't all that she's allowed to be during the season.
I hope we get to see Caryl finally talk and have some forward momentum in their relationship. Carol's trauma over Sophia is Daryl's trauma too, so if there's some follow through on that storyline with Carol working on her grief, hopefully, we're getting something juicy. The heartfelt moments Norman Reedus mentioned in the EW article.
