At their 15th anniversary tour final that was held at Hibiya Open Air Concert Hall on August 10, their band name changed back to the original "alicenine." from the "A9" that we have gotten familiar with over the last 5 years. Although we heard the reason behind this in the previous issue from the band's frontman, Show, in this issue, we ask each of the members to talk about their feelings towards "alicenine.". With what kind of feelings did they have when facing this band name and the "blend of Japanese and Western styles" concept 15 years ago? Everyone has their own image of "alicenine.", so that means we should be able to see many aspects of the band that is alicenine.
What is "アリス九號." to Nao? Just like Tora, Nao is not particular about names. Rather than names, he tells us that having the same members and being able to play アリス九號. songs, Alice Nine songs, and A9 songs without any discrimination is more important, and that is the true essence of it. To Nao, the biggest difference from their early days as アリス九號. might be that now, the status of "Akihabara" and "Nerd" have improved.
First of all, what kind of discussions did the members have to arrive at the conclusion of changing the band name back to "アリス九號."?
Nao: We had always talked about wanting to change the band name back, but as we were doing our activities as A9, there wasn't quite a point in time where we could change it back. We did our activities as "A9" for roughly 5 years, and the band logos of "アリス九號." and "Alice Nine" just happened to change in 5-year periods, so we thought that it would be nice if there was some kind of change at our 15th year anniversary.
What was the reason behind wanting to change it back to "アリス九號."?
Nao: Having left our management company and doing activities under the name "A9", we had done our activities wanting to change the band name back to "アリス九號.". But as we were doing so, "A9" had become dear to us, and we thought that "A9" was important in its own way. To be honest, I am not so particular about the band name. Of course, our 10-year history since アリス九號. is a big part of us and we have plenty of memories, but I think what's most important is that by playing both old songs and news songs without any changes in the members, we are able to do our activities integrating the past and the present. I think that is the true essence of it, so it might be the case that there isn't really such a special reason behind changing the name.
So when you changed from "Alice Nine" to "A9", you didn't really perceive it in a negative way.
Nao: It might be because I have a positive personality, but I think that a name has both a positive and a negative image.
Meaning?
Nao: People have always said that we were "a good looking band", and although I was glad, thinking, "Huh? Does that include me too?" (laughs), at the time, people around us would say that we didn't have the skills to match our good looks, and we ourselves thought the same. But the reality was that many people came to see our live shows at the time, so I think that there are many people whose impression of us is stuck in the "アリス九號." or "Alice Nine" days. It's not as though everyone has been watching us for the entire 10 years, so I thought that changing our public image and getting a fresh start with "A9" was not a bad thing.
This is just one of my own memories, but when I covered アリス九號. for the first time for a different magazine during your indie days, I can never forget that when talking about future dreams, you had said something like, "The band name アリス九號. might be hard to read, but one day, I want it to be a famous band to the point that when you type it into your PC or phone, it will automatically show up". This is my own assumption, but I thought that you guys must have been going through some really tough times.
Nao: I think it has to do with the timing. If we had become "A9" 5 years after that, I might have thought of it as a sad thing, but when you have been doing this for 10 years, the band does run into walls, and there are many difficult situations. As a result of being able to overcome those things, as long as the essence of the band does not change, then perhaps there is no need to be so particular about the band name.
So you didn't have that many troubles when you had changed to the English stylisation of "Alice Nine"?
Nao: If I remember correctly, at that time, there was a feeling that we should make the name that we mainly use "Alice Nine". That's why the name "アリス九號." was still cemented overseas.
Is that so? The concept of アリス九號. in the early days was a blending of Japanese and Western styles. What did you think of showing a Japanese style?
Nao: Show was the one to lead us in terms of the visual aspect, so I think that is where the "blending of Japanese and Western style" concept came from, but I might not have been so particular about the concept. The band アリス九號. itself did not originate from a concept, and it's not as though we came together because someone was really good at writing songs; All it was was that the 5 of us came together after having met many different people and hitting it off with each other, so we said "Let's do this".
You also told us passionate stories of making every effort with the thought that "this is my last band" in ROCK AND READ BAND 003.
Nao: Hahaha, that's right. I think that it will be tough if you don't do this with the feeling that you will put the next band you form in the graveyard.
Meaning that when the 5 of you came together, you thought "We are the strongest"?
Nao: I thought "These people are interesting! This is fun!". I felt that it had potential, and I was excited.
Having said that the band incorporates Japanese styles, you had the image of being refined, or rather, being stylish. Including your looks, everything was well balanced. Back then, did you ever feel that there was a gap between how others saw you and the real image of yourselves?
Nao: I don't think I really thought about it that deeply. I think at the time, we just discussed future activities with our company and were like "That's awesome!", and that was it (laughs). I get the impression that all we did was, without knowing, writing songs on our level that we thought were cool and standing on stage with the feeling like "We're cool!". But like I said earlier, there was a feeling of excitement I had never gotten before with other bands, and I think that was the driving force.
There was a lot of attention on you after joining the management company, and I'm sure that you were quite busy. Do you have any unforgettable memories from that time?
Nao: This is a personal thing, but around the time we formed the band, there was a negative image associated with having an Akiba(1) style or a nerdy style.
That's right. It wasn't mainstream, or rather, if you had said that you liked Akihabara, people would look at you coldly and be like "Are you a nerd?".
Nao: That's right. So the staff had told me to not to say those kinds of things (laughs). Now that time has passed, I am glad that being a nerd has a positive image. I don't really know the details of it, but I heard that at the time, the company had made "Akiba" a forbidden word (laughs).
Hahahaha. I get the impression that you had passionately talked about going to Akihabara on your day off. Was that during the Alice Nine era?
Nao: I think it was before that, during the アリス九號. era. When we appeared on the TV program "HEY!HEY!HEY!", I had said that I liked Akihabara, so I think that the company thought it was impossible to hide it, so the ban on the word was lifted (laughs).
They couldn't stop you any longer. How did you take the situation where the number of fans kept growing?
Nao: I think that in terms of feelings, I was filled to the brim with enthusiasm. I think that in some way or another, everyone was funny in the head.
The members?
Nao: Yeah. This is something that happened in our early days, but even though no one had a driver's license and we couldn't drive, we decided on playing a show outside of Tokyo, and we were like "So how do we get there?" (laughs). In the end, Hiroto had found a driver and we somehow made it work. Also, since we were doing a live in an outfit that blended Japanese and Western styles, I was also particular about my look, and performed wearing wooden clogs.
Playing drums wearing wooden clogs? How did you play the bass drum?
Nao: It hurt so I couldn't step on the pedal (laughs). We were crazy. Also, at the time, all other bands had a car for moving equipment, but in general, for us, we travelled by train. I didn't have any equipment that I was particular about, so I would go to the livehouse only carrying drumsticks.
So you were the type to rent out the drumset at the livehouse.
Nao: Yeah. Now, it might actually seem like a normal thing to do, but back then, I had no money to buy drumsticks, so I was like "I only have 3 sticks today" (laughs).
Hahaha. Like "These drumsticks definitely won't break during today's live show".
Nao: Also, what I remember is Hiroto's eccentric behaviour. We were all waiting for the first train of the day at a ramen place, and when it was 5 in the morning, we were like "It's about time we left", but Hiroto was like "I'm going to sleep for a bit and then go home", and slept in the ramen place by himself, even though it was closed. I thought "What's up with that?" (laughs). Even with Saga, at a beef bowl place, he didn't have enough money for seconds, so he ordered one without beef and added red ginger to it.
(laughs). Did you have this feeling that as the leader, you had to reign in these reckless members?
Nao: No, I think I was probably made the leader because the staff had talked to us and saw that I was the most normal of us. Like I was a person who understood what was being said (laughs). I remember listening to what the company staff had to say as the representative of the band.
So you kind of had a cushion-like role, where you connected the staff and the members. You might not have thought yourself that アリス九號. was a idol-like band, but what kind of band were you?
Nao: I've been saying this for a while now, but we're like a zoo (laughs).
Like this is the lion area, and that is the zebra area?
Nao: That's right (laughs). But it's not a jungle.
So wouldn't that mean you're a wild beast tamer?
Nao: The beast is Tora. Oh, I guess only in name (laughs).
By the way, at the time, were you conscious of the Asia region and overseas?
Nao: No, not at all. When we were in the company, we had received quite a lot of invitations to play overseas, but we firmly turned down the offers. There was a time when we went for a company-wide event, but I think we only went on our own during the latter half of the Alice Nine era.
Didn't many Visual Kei bands go to Asia and Europe during the Neo-Japanesque boom? Why did you turn down the offers?
Nao: There was the fact that Tora was scared of flying (laughs), but it was also like "Well, we don't want to go just because it's trendy". But we received more offers when the peak of it was over, so we were like, "Then I guess it's okay to go". I think we went overseas to play live shows in the latter half of the Alice Nine era.
Are you perhaps a band that is excessively cautious?
Nao: We were cautious~. Maybe it's because we didn't go at all, but when we were ranked in the top 3 among Japan's most popular idols that the Asia region wants to see, I was shocked, like, "No way!!".
Earlier you talked about how you remained as "アリス九號." overseas even though you had changed the band stylisation to "Alice Nine". It seems like a story about fate.
Nao: I guess it's because we rarely went overseas. We went on an Asia tour after becoming "A9", and the people waiting were really grateful to Tora. Like "Thank you for getting on the plane" (laughs).
How do you see the 5-year periods as アリス九號., Alice Nine, and A9, including changes in musical direction?
Nao: I think that in the 5 years as アリス九號., we did things excitedly and on pure energy, but since becoming Alice Nine, after coming to do our activities in the major scene, we learned of reality, or rather, it felt like we were made to realize that we were lacking in ability. When we got signed to a record label and had the opportunity to connect with other bands apart from Visual Kei, both personally and with the band, I remember feeling this sense of danger, like "Oh crap".
When was this, in terms of releases?
Nao: I suppose it was after we had released the album "VANDALIZE". Even though at best, all I could do was play the drums, I thought that I was lacking abilities there too, and came to practice a lot, thinking, "I have to work harder".
Since becoming "Alice Nine", the Western style in your music has gotten stronger, and you have songs that take a progressive rock approach, or dance rock songs like "RAINBOWS". I think that as a band, you had gotten more experimental.
Nao: Rather than being experimental, we thought that we had to positively take on challenges. I think that the company probably wanted to sell us as a bright pop band. But we were painfully aware of our lack of ability, and I think it was the Alice Nine era where we made more cool music and refined our technique. Although we might have peaked at even higher popularity if we had listened to our company, I think that we might not have been able to continue for 15 years if we did that.
Because you are not a group full of bright boys.
Nao: That's probably why while improving musically, we weren't selling well. I believe that perhaps because we did this while suffering, we were able to continue.
And in the A9 era, you had further developed your approach and the way you present things.
Nao: Personally, I was able to break through the bounds after becoming A9. Having left our company, there was nothing restricting us, and in reality, there was this period of danger where the band might not be able to continue, so we came to think that if we didn't know when it was going to end, we should at least do what we wanted to do so that we wouldn't have any regrets. So it was even.
Is that thought related to being able to come out to the front of the stage to sing or to put on a performance where you recite a script?
Nao: That also started from being able to break through the bounds, and the feeling I have when playing the drums is different from that of before. 1 year ago, I would never have thought that I would be singing, and I wouldn't be able to imagine myself as I am today. Also, I formed a unit called "THE ALTERNATIVE" with Saga, and we are doing activities, and that is also something that was derived from A9.
You play the acoustic guitar and sing too, right?
Nao: Although the focus is the drums and bass, we do play the acoustic guitar, and the concept is to see just how much the 2 of us can do. I think it's fun to broaden my expression, so lately, I've been addicted to the guitar.
You play the acoustic guitar all the time?
Nao: I do play the acoustic guitar, but I also bought an electric guitar. I own a better guitar than Hiroto does.
Seriously?
Nao: Hahaha. I went to the Fender Showroom together with Hiroto, and there was a guitar where Hiroto said "This guitar really makes some noise. It's great. I want it". So I was like "Oh really, I guess I'll buy it".
What kind of guitar is it?
Nao: It's a guitar made by the Fender Custom Shop master builder.
Whoa. Did you show it off to Hiroto?
Nao: I didn't (laughs). He was surprised, like, "You kidding me?".
You've been that captured by the charm of the guitar?
Nao: Since it's my hobby, I want a good one. It depends on the builder, but that guitar I bought was quite expensive. But I'd like to own just 1 guitar for the rest of my life. By the way, I also bought a bass.
Doesn't that mean you can be in a band by yourself?
Nao: I've come to want to come into contact with good things and enjoy living my life. Over the last few years, the words "saving money" is not something I know of.
You never used to be like this, right? If I had to say which, you were the type to save.
Nao: It's certainly true that in the past, I used to be more proper (laughs). What's interesting is that when I'm buying drum equipment, I go "But this part is kind of expensive".
Why is that?
Nao: When it comes to my hobbies, the way I spend money changes. That's why going forward, I have strong feelings of wanting to learn many things, take on challenges, and enjoy doing activities.
As a musician, it's a really good time for you.
Nao: The actually feeling that I am doing music is out of this world. Now, I'm recording the drums at my own studio. I also bought microphones.
I see. If you had your own studio, you would want to collect many guitars and bass guitars.
Nao: That's right. I also got some recording equipment and bought amps. I've come to not only record for myself, but also to do recording with other bands.
Just like a pro. Is that something you would have never even thought of 15 years ago?
Nao: Definitely.
That is very interesting. So your new single after changing your band name back to アリス九號., "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-", incorporates the shamisen and features quite a lot of Japanese elements. Is this the "blending of Japanese and Western styles" as the current アリス九號.?
Nao: That's right. We changed our name back, so it's like アリス九號.'s origin song. Regarding this song, rather than just releasing it, we wanted to do something interesting, so we had the vocaloids Rin and Len (Kagamine) sing the song and released a vocaloid version in advance along with animation.
That kind of challenge is also something that only the current アリス九號. can do.
Nao: We want many people to sing the song, and I'm thinking of uploading a video on the release date where I sing the song to commemorate the release.
I see. I can feel your Akiba soul.
Nao: Hahahaha. Releasing a vocaloid version is something the entire band decided on. Like "Let's try doing something a little interesting".
So finally, what do you, who is enjoying your music life, want to try doing with アリス九號. going forward?
Nao: In terms of what I want to do -- right -- I bought a camera recently. I want to discover another hobby.
The camera?
Nao: Yes. We have this new form of content on the official homepage called "アリス九號. official note", and every week, we upload what we have written down in order. Since I'm bad at writing, after thinking about what I should do, since Tora had fallen into bad health, I would like to study cooking, including health and nutrition.
Do you mean that you will upload healthy food and recipes?
Nao: I don't know exactly what it will be like yet, but I want people to enjoy cooking videos, so that's why I bought a camera.
While putting your hobbies to practical use. What kind of activities would you like to do as アリス九號.?
Nao: As アリス九號., I would like to do more live-like live shows. Since we're in the same space, I'd like to throw my passion and feelings into it even more than ever. Since we are here now because there was A9, I'd like to see an even more advanced アリス九號.
(1) An abbreviation for Akihabara, an area in Tokyo where many electronics, anime, manga, video game etc. fans gather.
At their 15th anniversary tour final that was held at Hibiya Open Air Concert Hall on August 10, their band name changed back to the original "alicenine." from the "A9" that we have gotten familiar with over the last 5 years. Although we heard the reason behind this in the previous issue from the band's frontman, Show, in this issue, we ask each of the members to talk about their feelings towards "alicenine.". With what kind of feelings did they have when facing this band name and the "blend of Japanese and Western styles" concept 15 years ago? Everyone has their own image of "alicenine.", so that means we should be able to see many aspects of the band that is alicenine.
The one who composed the first release of the second stage of アリス九號., "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-", was the bassist Saga. We asked the composer himself why they went on such a strong Japanesque path. And when we did, we discovered an unexpected fact related to the original song. Also, what was the image of the lyrics he requested of Show? It actually became clear that this is connected to things that happened before the formation of アリス九號.! This is the latest interview where you can feel Saga's creative soul and his "Love for Show".
The new song "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-" was first played during the encore of "A9 LAST ONEMAN ALIVERSARY TOUR FINAL & 15TH ANNIVERSARY "THE TIME MACHINE"" at Hibiya Open Air Hall on August 10, after announcing that you would change your name back from "A9" to "アリス九號.", while wearing new outfits.
Saga: That's right.
Does that mean you worked on "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-" with the intention of it being performed at this time?
Saga: Yes. I had started pre-production from around the beginning of June. For this song, I had worked with SuzukiDaichiHideyuki. I went to his house and there was much back and forth. Since the song was pretty much complete, some minor adjustments were made.
There was something that I personally thought when listening to the song for the first time. I apologize if I am mistaken. Is this perhaps a song that you had written for the secret solo project that you had previously made public in this magazine?
Saga: Ahh. As expected of you. Even if I wanted to be active in my solo project, I'm so busy that I can't. For this year in particular, things were done for アリス九號.'s anniversary year, so I could not make the time to work on my private project. However, I did have plenty of stock songs for my solo project.
How many songs do you have?
Saga: I have enough songs for 2 albums. So when we had decided to change our band name back to "アリス九號." together with our 15th year anniversary, we talked about releasing a single that was in line with those standards. When we were deciding on what song to make it and what visuals to show, what immediately came to my mind was to wear traditional Japanese coats like we had done in our early days. Those kinds of words were thrown around.
Why is that?
Saga: I wanted a feeling that we had returned. I thought that we should show that we were back in every respect, from the looks to the songs to the band name. Because I would think that even if we changed the band name back, if we didn't change our appearances and did songs as usual, then there would be no need to change our band name back. I thought that if we were going to change our band name back, then I should change the way I composed songs back too. So I had started to write songs, but even though I thought to do so in my mind, my hands did not keep up and I couldn't come up with anything (awkward smile). Even if I did write songs and they were goods songs, the only songs that came to me were ones that were not the kind of songs to be done at the point in time when we go back to being "アリス九號.", so I rejected those songs. Before this, I had spoken to Show and said that I wanted to write a song that wasn't gimmicky and had "good singing", so I think that I wrote the song in a way that would allow good singing. But even so, we had to decide on a song or else we would have not made it on time. My iTunes is full of demos for my solo project, and when I listened to those, there was a song that I was hooked to. Unfortunately (laughs).
When you say "Unfortunately", do you mean that you had the feeling of not wanting to bring out a demo that was made for your solo project?
Saga: That's right. It is a song that I had written for myself, after all. But unfortunately, the demo for "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-" had suited the style, and it just clicked.
That it was a song that perfectly suited the timing of changing your band name back.
Saga: That's right. But this song was not written to be a single for a band, rather than communicating a message to people, the emphasis is on the atmosphere of the song. I wrote the song with the image of a degraded Japanese world. Personally, it has the feeling of Yoshiwara1.
The image of the red light district?
Saga: Right, right. The incredibly sad world of the women who worked there. Originally, I wrote the song with the image of a sad Japanese world with a negative aura lingering in the air.
So that's why you use the shamisen.
Saga: Yes. That was always in the song. From the introduction to the chorus. It's not as though we put in the sounds of the shamisen because アリス九號.'s concept is a blending of Japanese and Western styles, but it was always there from the beginning. So when asking Show to write the lyrics, I communicated my own ideas.
What kind of ideas?
Saga: There was a band called Givuss that he used to be in before アリス九號. I really liked the titles he came up with for the band. One of their album titles was "Nou Ongaku, Museimei (No Music No Life)", and personally, I thought he had interesting sensibilities. On top of that, in the very last artist photo of Givuss, they were wearing traditional Japanese coats. I thought that to wear a traditional Japanese coat and give such a title to an album was the kind of sense that only he had. At the time, other bands were all influenced by baroque and doing that kind of thing, but I thought he was original. In addition to being an extension from that, when アリス九號. first formed, the basic concept was a blending of Japanese and Western styles. アリス九號.'s debut single is called "Namae wa, Mada Nai". There, we wore traditional Japanese coats.
So the concept at the time reflected Show's sensibilities, which he always had since Givuss.
Saga: To me, those things are connected. I think that the sense that only Show has is アリス九號.'s uniqueness. I've always thought that we should value that. But when we changed our band's stylisation to the English "Alice Nine" in our 5th year, he changed the way he expresses himself into something more broad.
In line with the stylisation of the band name?
Saga: Probably. Since then, he has been holding back on expressions that he used in the past. Even if he were to express himself that way, it would only be for a song on an album or a coupling song on a single. That's what he kept it at. But personally, I always thought that he should push out those parts of him for all to see. So this time, at the point in time where we were changing our band name back, I told him that he should definitely do that. There's a song called "Byakuya ni Kuroneko", and I really like the world in the lyrics that he wrote for that song. It's a little angsty, or rather, dark, but I think that he shouldn't throw away his sense for using words. This is what アリス九號. is.
You felt that strongly about it.
Saga: Although I think when we are asked "What is アリス九號.?", we will all remain quiet. I think that it's Show's sensibilities.
Show also has fantastic sense, like saying "Let's become stars".
Saga: That is also a part of him, but I think the motivation for his most fundamental expression is the sense that allowed him to wear a traditional Japanese coat and come up with "Nou Ongaki, Museimei (No Music No Life)". When I said that to Show when asking him to write the lyrics for "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-", he said "I understand". And so he wrote these lyrics.
So you had a resolute vision for the band in the changing of the band name back.
Saga: I had a plan for the framework of the band. So when we were talking about costumes, I suggested that we wear traditional Japanese coats. I originally liked the katakana and kanji stylisation "アリス九號.".
Is that so?
Saga: Yes. So that's why when we changed to the English stylisation, of course it was changed with the consensus of the members, but I had always thought that changing our band name was a waste. But at the time, I myself was writing songs that were similar to Western music. I didn't have this burning passion inside of me to say that I absolutely hated the English stylisation. But things are different now. At first, there was the idea to change the band name back to the English stylisation at this time. We made it the katakana and kanji mix instead.
You didn't like the English stylisation?
Saga: If we were going to change it back to "Alice Nine", wouldn't it be just fine as "A9"? When thinking about what we would do after changing the stylisation back to "Alice Nine", I think that it probably wouldn't be any different to what was being done (as "A9"). That being the case, I thought that I'd rather change it to the katakana and kanji mix and do something interesting.
And so the band name was changed back from "A9" to "アリス九號.". Looking back on the 5 years spent as "A9", how do you see it?
Saga: To be honest, it was tough. Because we started from a state where people didn't know that we had changed our band name and were like "What's A9?". I do have an attachment to it, as we had carried the name all the way until this point, and I do feel that it is something emotional.
As A9, the members had set down their instruments to sing and dance, and even played the role of princes and incorporated a 2.5 dimensional play into your live show. During this era, the band came to do many activities in the pursuit of entertainment. What was the reason behind being able to do such activities?
Saga: It was because we had lost many things. We lost many things, and even lost sight of what we were. I think that's why we were able to do that sort of thing. From someone else's point of view, the sight of us doing that kind of 2.5 dimension play and reciting a script might make them think "You guys have really lost it". I don't think that it's wrong to say that. I think a band is something that loses sight of things. I think that a band "strays off course" as a long as they keep on doing activities. I think that the people who belong to a big entertainment production company and have a proper director have people navigate them on the correct course, so they don't stray off course. But I think that all bands doing activities on their own are straying off course. That's why they always say to fans "Come along with us".
Because you are straying off course.
Saga: Yeah. If you are on the right path, there's no need to say "Come along with us". I mean, because you're on the right path. But when you do activities on your own, you stray off course and get nervous. Because you can't see one step in front of you. All you can do is keep making choices on what is in front of you and do each and every thing.
Since parting from your previous management company, I think that it would appear to those around you that the band was straying off course at a faster rate.
Saga: Probably. In these 5 years in particular we strayed off course. But I don't think of that as something negative. If that didn't happen, then we wouldn't have been able to reach this point.
By straying off course, the band matured.
Saga: Right. The secret to behind our band lasting for 15 years is "straying off course" (laughs).
Hahahaha.
Saga: I'm certain it's true. All the bands that I like stray off course. U2 constantly change their musical direction.
Bands should stray off course.
Saga: Right. Whether or not that straying off course was correct or not is decided by the audience. If the audience doesn't come along with you, then it means that that straying off course was bad luck.
And fortunately, A9's straying off course wasn't "bad luck".
Saga: By a hair, though. Our audience did their best to try and understand our straying off course. That's why there were many times where I felt glad. Also, even though we were straying off course, we took it seriously. We didn't do it with any feelings of wanting to just cause incidents or to try and cause an issue. I think that is why our audience put in effort to try and understand us.
Your top priority wasn't to do something crazy to make a buzz.
Saga: That's right. Even with us dancing, it's not as though we wanted it to become a hot topic; it was just the natural course of things. For us. It's not surprising at all.
And fans understood that.
Saga: Yes. That is why we seriously practiced. That's why I think we will continue to stray off course in future too. This is something that I want to say to the readers who like bands: That is what bands are! I want you to think about whether to follow a band or not after understanding this fact. If you don't like that, then I think it would be less stressful for you to follow a more proper artist. Bands stray and stray off course, and while getting lost, there are moments where they just instantly return to the right path. That is cool in its own way, and doesn't it make fans happy? That's what a band is. Bands stray off path, and their members even change. But there are times where you can think "That thing at that time wasn't bad". That's what's strange about bands.
Like "They became princes and acted at that anniversary live, but that wasn't bad either".
Saga: Right, that's right (laughs). That's why even though we stray off course, so that we don't think of the activities that we do as a mistake, we make a choice at each and every point in time.
I see. Even though you are straying off course, you are carefully choosing the path to take.
Saga: Yes, that's right.
Ever since becoming A9, you personally have started to rap, singing in the chorus, and sometimes even leaving the bass to Tora and playing the keyboard. I feel that you've come to be able to show us that you go beyond the border of a bassist and are more and more like a multi-instrumentalist.
Saga: In the past, I thought that all I needed to do was just play the bass. But I myself changed my awareness to become A9's colour, so I think that change shows. My colour in the band is purple (laughs), but if an outsider were to take a glimpse at us, they would be like "That purple caught my eye". I myself decided that it would be okay for me to show that my colour in this band is an important one, and not just be a part of a collective entity that is the band. That was also a conclusion I naturally reached. After becoming A9 and looking at ourselves objectively, I felt that my individuality was still weak, and I felt that there was no need for us to pull ourselves back.
From a producer's point of view.
Saga: Yes. Lately I've been listening to younger bands, and sometimes all I can hear is the vocalist. Isn't that a real waste? Even though everyone in this scene wears make-up and is in a band because they particularly want to stand out. But despite this, only the vocalist wears a different outfit, and everyone else wears the same colour. I wonder if they are okay with that. The instrument players need to show themselves more. To the point it gets annoying. My feeling is that if they don't do that, it will be boring. In this scene that is called Visual Kei, what's interesting about it is that guys apart from the vocalist are also putting themselves out there to the point it gets annoying, right? If only the vocalist needs to stand out, then the instrument players should just wear masks. Isn't that the logical conclusion of that line of reasoning? I feel that if you're going to act cool, don't let it just stop at your looks and make your playing and performance cool, and it doesn't matter if you bump into your other members; just go for it. I think that a band would be more interesting if no matter how many times they get told "Don't come out to the front", they want to come out to the front.
Were you ever told by the members "Don't come out to the front"?
Saga: Our band is full of nice people, so I haven't been told that. Show will never say "No". Even if I were to say "I want to rap" or "I'm going to sing the whole chorus", he'll be like "Oh, okay" (laughs). He won't ever say "I'm going to do that". That's why people should just do what they want. Of course, if they're going to do it, then they need to practice. If there are any band members reading this issue of "ROCK AND READ", that is what I want to tell them.
Ever since A9 participated in "PARTY ZOO ~Ken Entwines Naughty stars", I feel like A9 has really gone hard with this. In the past, it would have been unthinkable for you to use your own face parts as a topic and push it, like you do with "Nose Mountain".
Saga: That might also be because that is what Ken advised us to do. He said to us "I thought A9 were princes, but you guys are boring" (laughs). When he said that to us, it made us think "Huh? Were we always like this?". That's why meeting Ken was the biggest thing for A9. The biggest memory I have from these 5 years of activities is ever since being able to participate in that event, we have become close with Ken, and he has been giving us lots of advice.
The band returned to its original name in light of the change within the band. What do you want to do with アリス九號. going forward?
Saga: In the past, we were the kind of people think that the atmosphere wasn't important. When we joined our previous management company, we were twisted, so we were punks who were like, "Atmosphere? We don't need that" (laughs). But now, going forward, I would really like to value the atmosphere. What's most important after our 5 personalities is the atmosphere. Now, it's sort of like 5 gaudy people are in front of a white backdrop. But going forward, what I would like to show as アリス九號. is the 5 of us in front of a really complex painting. And the background image is, at least for this single, the world that blends Japanese and Western styles. This will probably change for each release, but I want to make it so that there is a common factor. And that is what I talked about earlier: Show's sensibilities. Going forward, I want him to show his sensibilities more.
Show's sensibilities will be the key to アリス九號. going forward.
Show: That's right.
Earlier you were talking about bands straying off course, so do you think that after another 5-year period, アリス九號. will change their name again?
Saga: I am putting in effort so that we don't change it. Always (laughs).
So where will you head towards with this band name?
Saga: I want for us to head to our 20th year anniversary. I want to play at Nippon Budokan. When I thought about how to cook this アリス九號. to get there and what kind of meal we should be to be able to play at Budokan, for me, the answer was to go really deep with our colour, with アリス九號. Even with the songs, I want to write song that don't present to the world a song that is easy to listen to or feels familiar to the ear, but one that has an atmosphere.
And when it comes to expressing that, it does seem like it will be easier for not "A9", but "アリス九號." to do.
Saga: Is what I think. To us, this name is catchy, but it's not a catchy name to the rest of the world. They think "What is this?". Our band name doesn't allow us to do normal things. To me, I think アリス九號. is a band name on the same level as Yabai Tshirts Ya-san.
Ahahaha. It seems like you will be accelerating the straying off course going forward.
Saga: That's why I can't say "Please come along with us". To me, "straying off course" is the biggest compliment you can give.
1 Yoshiwara was a famous red-light district in the Edo period.
At their 15th anniversary tour final that was held at Hibiya Open Air Concert Hall on August 10, their band name changed back to the original "alicenine." from the "A9" that we have gotten familiar with over the last 5 years. Although we heard the reason behind this in the previous issue from the band's frontman, Show, in this issue, we ask each of the members to talk about their feelings towards "alicenine.". With what kind of feelings did they have when facing this band name and the "blend of Japanese and Western styles" concept 15 years ago? Everyone has their own image of "alicenine.", so that means we should be able to see many aspects of the band that is alicenine.
Tora, who had survived a sudden myocardial infarction at the end of last year, makes his appearance in this magazine roughly half a year since last time, vol. 083, an interview done after his recovery. The theme of this interview is to talk about their own feelings towards "アリス九號.", but Tora is Tora, after all! He says it straight out that back then and now, he had no fixation on the band name, and "If you only want a nice story, then there's no need for me to talk". He also speaks about the truth of the coupling song on their new single, "Ageha", and makes clear his bizarre aspirations!
Announcing that you would change the band name back to "アリス九號.", you played your new song "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-" both at the 15th anniversary live and at your headliner festival on August 24. What had the members talked about to decide to change the band name back in the first place?
Tora: Since the start of this year, in terms of timing, we said that if we could change our band name back, then we wanted to, so it was a matter of whether or not we could change the band name back. So we decided to go and talk to our previous company, and we all paid them a visit. It wasn't until the last minute where we knew if we could really change the band name back or not, though.
Do you mean timing as in because it was your 15th year anniversary?
Tora: There was that, but having come up with many different things for our anniversary lives, when we wondered what we should do for our 15th anniversary live, we couldn't think of anything new, and thought that perhaps the best thing was to change our name back. We've done many things like singing, dancing, and doing a short play, and thought that perhaps the best thing to do would be to change our name back.
So it's not as though you had talked about wanting to change the band name back whenever possible?
Tora: In my opinion, the members aren't fixated on the band name. Rather than for us, the reason was that if we could change our band name back for the people who were waiting for us, then we wanted to change the name back for them. It's not as though the members would be different, and we've never strayed from those feelings.
And the fundamental thought that you want to make music and put on good live shows as the five of you has not changed.
Tora: That's right. I think that probably when we were "A9", we thought of ourselves as "アリス九號.". Or rather, just the stylisation was different. There might be some people who thought the same way when they came to "A9" live shows, but also, when we went from "アリス九號." to "Alice Nine", there were also some people who we didn't see anymore. I'm sure that they all have their own reasons, like becoming an adult and being busy with work, but those people actually don't even know about the existence of "A9". Or even if they were to know about "A9", they would think that we are doing something different musically. But for us, our awareness and the things we are doing haven't changed so much, so a part of the reason why we changed the band name back was for the people who know "アリス九號.".
You had said that you yourselves had not changed, but with what kind of feelings did you personally have to come to terms with the band name changing every 5 years, from "アリス九號." to "Alice Nine" to "A9"?
Tora: Rather than saying I came to terms with it, when we were unable to use our band name and Show had given us the name "A9", I thought that he had really good sense. The logo was also clean and concise, and I felt that it showed that we had developed in a good direction from "アリス九號.".
Did you not have any opinions when you changed from "アリス九號." to "Alice Nine"?
Tora: I don't usually say anything (laughs).
Why is that?
Tora: Probably because I'm not concerned with that.
Hahaha. You give me the impression that rather than thinking about things too deeply, you make a positive thing out of the situation. So I guess that is true?
Tora: There is a part of me that wonders if a band name is that important.
When the band stylisation changes, just like you mentioned, there are risks, such as causing misunderstandings or seeing less people at live shows.
Tora: That's right. But I think that when you are first naming a band, anything is fine. The band name is something that grows as you keep on going forward, and people will come to know of the band. Or rather, the band name starts to have value according to the substance of the band. For example, even if the band name was "Poo", if there is value in that band, then isn't it a good band name? Then if you were to change the stylisation to "POO", isn't it fine (laughs)?
(laughs). It's fine to use a different stylisation. A merit of changing the band name might be that by changing the band name, it's easier to take on new challenges both musically and how you present yourselves.
Tora: Hmm, we've always been a band eager to take on challenges, so we really didn't feel that way about the change of the band name. We never really thought that some things can only be done within certain genres, and have done our musical activities without exception. That's why I think that when we became "A9", we were like "The only thing we have left to do is dance" or to put on a play.
Why did you feel like the only thing left to do was to dance?
Tora: Isn't it because it seems like it would be interesting? I mean, if there are bands that have been around for over 10 years and don't want to dance, then they don't have to (laughs). We just wanted to dance.
That impulse to dance came quite late.
Tora: (laughs) No, it's fine. We thought "Wouldn't it be fun if we tried dancing?". I like that sort of thing. I think that it's a wonderful thing to take on challenges, and we're not the kind of band to pretend and act cool.
But for a band like "アリス九號.", don't people tend to think that you're a band that "acts cool" just because you guys are good looking?
Tora: That might have been the case in the beginning, but around 10 years ago we got our own show on Nico Nico, and I think the image of our band changed quite a lot due to that. We did the kind of things that comedians would do on live broadcasts. We also came to be able to talk a lot more too.
I see. Going back a little, the concept of "アリス九號." was "blending of Japanese and Western styles". What was the background behind this?
Tora: In the beginning, Show said that he wanted the outfits to use Japanese patterns. Not as in traditional Japanese clothing, but in a modern way. So I get the feeling that the phrase first started due to the outfits. Because at the time, we hadn't really thought about the songs.
Did you have any songs at the time?
Tora: We had some, but barely. We had "Time Machine" and "Akai Kazaguruma".
"Time Machine" is a song that you wrote, right?
Tora: That's right. It's a song that doesn't even think about the "blending of Japanese and Western styles" concept at all (laughs). Our band is one where Show's image of the visuals comes first, so especially in the past, it's like we had worked the visuals before the songs. So before we even thought about what the songs should be, we had already made costumes and taken photos in them.
What did you personally think about being a rock band that incorporated Japanese elements?
Tora: With regards to that, at the time, our senior band Kagrra, was already incorporating Japanese elements, and the level of what they were doing was quite high. Or rather, their way of incorporating traditional Japanese instruments was great. We had thought about many things, and wondered if there was a band that would incorporate the Japanese elements this well, then was there a need for us to incorporate Japanese elements?
But the Japanese elements in アリス九號.'s songs in the beginning were quite strong. "Yami ni Chiru Sakura" is heavy and dynamic, but it has a Japanese world view.
Tora: I came up with the original song for "Yami ni Chiru Sakura", and I remember working on it with Hiroto at his parent's place. It's certainly true that the song title and lyrics are Japanesque, but when I was originally writing the song, I didn't really focus on that. Also, with the songs I had written at the time, they were written on the assumption of being performed live, so it's not like I wrote them so we could sell CDs. Or rather, release on a CD was an afterthought. Because we had very few songs to be able to play a live show.
You had that few songs?
Tora: Yeah. In the first year, we did a one-man show with about 10 songs. None of us were good at writing songs. But all we had was energy, and even though we didn't prepare any songs, we formed a band right away. We thought we would do well if we did that. It doesn't make sense (laughs).
That's what you do when you're young.
Tora: At the time, the trend in Visual Kei was not about the songs, but the groove. I wrote songs thinking about the groove, like headbanging or moving sideways. Like "At this part, I want to crowd to do this".
Energy was important there too.
Tora: That's right. I didn't want to write "a good song". We started off from a point of wanting to have about 20 songs so that we could do a one-man show, and I only starting thinking about wanting to write proper songs when we were making an album.
So it was more like it was fine if the songs had a Japanese taste to it, but you weren't that fixated on it?
Tora: Yeah. I mean, the Japanese taste went away pretty quickly. Pretty much right after "Gion Shouja no Kane ga Naru".
Was it because you got bored of it?
Tora: Not that, but I think because there were trends. The world that Show focuses on is fashion, so it changes depending on the season. And it's not as though you can continue doing the same thing forever.
In that area too, アリス九號. is unique. You just mentioned that in the beginning, none of you were able to write proper songs, but even if the approach was different, in general, アリス九號. songs are melodic. Was that due to the influence of the bands you listened to?
Tora: That might be the case. I was raised in the Komuro1 era, or rather, raised listening to 90s music, so I still remember the melody lines.
I thought that you guys were different from the grungy Visual Kei bands.
Tora: But I liked heavy songs, so I wanted to be in that kind of band. I gave it up pretty quickly, but when the band first formed, I had dreadlocks, and I was into screamo and heavy metal. I thought that it would be great to incorporate those elements into our songs, but as the band went on, I thought that that kind of thing didn't suit us. In the beginning, the 5 of us all had our own opinions, but we gradually started to think about how we wanted to be seen as a band, and our own roles within the band.
In terms of releases, when was this?
Tora: I get the impression that it was around "Zekkeishoku" when we divided up the characters, or rather, when our roles started to form.
Hmm. I have the image of the songs that you write having a liberating feeling that are both pop and heavy. Did you write those kinds of songs in consideration of your role in the band?
Tora: No, for some reason, the songs just end up being cheerful (laughs).
Since you are part American, perhaps that background and environment also influenced you?
Tora: Well, I guess. I was brought up in a cheerful household. Also, I can't write songs unless I'm having fun, so as a result, the songs end up that way.
That essence might be connected to the image of アリス九號. songs having a mainstream feeling to it.
Tora: For our band, Show also writes songs, and 4 out of 5 of us write songs, and it's interesting that each of us manage to write songs that are slightly different n nuance. I think that's why we have such a broad range of songs, or to put it in a bad way, that's why we're a band where people don't know what we want to do with our music. Especially in the early days, there was no one to bring the songs together, so it's like we were performing the songs in the way the song was written by that person. The person who wrote the song wasn't able to clearly explain the song. But as we started to work with many different producers, we absorbed those abilities. That's why in the beginning, アリス九號. wasn't a band of 5 people that were very skilled.
If from the very beginning, the 5 of you were highly skilled in composition and performance, and had those good looks, you may have disbanded over disagreements.
Tora: If there was an annoying guy in the band, then it probably would have been his band. In our case, regarding the things we didn't know, all 5 of us didn't know, and it strongly felt like we were doing our best while learning and all walking together. That might be the secret behind why we get along so well.
Actually, to be honest, I thought that all 5 of you had your own personalities, or rather, it was a group of weirdos.
Tora: Hahaha. To this day, people still say that we are weird. For me in particular, people have been saying it to me a lot recently. I think a part of it is that I've stopped trying to talk while hiding things.
I've always had the impression that you've always been straightforward and not hiding anything though.
Tora: Really (laughs)? I'm not hiding anything at all now, compared to that time. I say what I want to say to my friends, and I don't like having to be considerate of people in a weird way. For example, even in this kind of interview, it might be good to only talk about good memories and good stories, but if that's the case, then there's no need for me to talk.
You can speak in words to describe アリス九號.'s history, but that's not the real you.
Tora: Right. I think that no matter which one of us talked, we would all say the same thing.
No matter what people around you think, you're going to speak what you think with your own words.
Tora: I think it's more interesting that way.
"Interesting" is your keyword.
Tora: I mean, if I had to say what kind of interview I want to read, it's an interview with a weird person. I don't want to pay money to buy a magazine only to read a bland and normal article.
I understand you. But that is also done with the band in mind.
Tora: There's a huge difference between "pretending to be cool" and "being cool". Strangely enough, it might be cooler to not pretend to be cool. In the past, I was mistaken, and thought that pretending to be cool was cool.
I think that you only think that way because you yourself are cool. From your perspective, how would you define "アリス九號.", "Alice Nine", and "A9"?
Tora: If the 5 years of the アリス九號. era were an elementary school student, then "Alice Nine" would be a middle and high school student, and "A9" would be someone making their debut as a working adult. In other words, we enjoyed ourselves as we were doing band activities. Like a kid who was playing in the sandbox was finally able to play at the school's culture festival. I think that's something you can only do when you're a student.
In other words, rather than musically, by going independent and changes in the environment, you debuted as working adults with A9?
Tora: A part of it was due to the environment, and in terms of music, we were still inexperienced in some aspects. Since becoming A9, we left our management company and did our activities on our own, so it was about whether or not we could do properly do music as our job.
When you belong to a management company, to a certain extent, you are protected. Perhaps from there on, you went on to walk by yourselves, and came to be more aware of being entertaining?
Tora: I think so.
Even with the live show that incorporates theatrical elements like you just mentioned, in the past, it would have been unthinkable for you to make yourselves "princes", and I felt like you yourselves hated being thought of as like princes.
Tora: That's right. On the contrary, now it's fun.
Hahaha. You guys have changed, after all. To speak in terms of being a student, being opposed to being thought of as cool or cute is like being in puberty.
Tora: That's right. When you're young, you rebel and are like "I am me". Now, I'm actually at the level where I want everyone to use my life as something to enjoy.
You've created a wise saying. Last year, you were hospitalised for a myocardial infarction. Did that change your view of life?
Tora: No, nothing has changed. I just think "I'm alive", and I don't really have any mental anguish. In life, I won't do something if it's not fun. That is the best answer.
That is wonderful. But it is quite a difficult thing to do.
Tora: Since we all die in the end, at that time, won't you think "Did I have fun?". Calculating backwards from there and thinking about it, I think it would be better to live that kind of life. It's not as though I am saying that suffering is not fun. Even with studying, if you try to have fun, you can have fun.
Like as a guitarist, "I want to acquire this kind of skill"?
Tora: Right, right. That's fun, so it's not as though I'm trying to live my life in a comfortable way. I think that the most painful thing is not doing anything. The time spent at home not doing anything is the most boring time. I think that that's a waste of time. So I think that right before I die, when I look back, if I can say "I had fun", then perhaps it means that I was able to put effort into the things I like. I think there are a lot of people in this world who have to put effort into the things they don't like.
So you only think that way because you are doing what you like. So that is the view of life you've always had?
Tora: That's right. And that hasn't changed.
So please tell me about now and the future. The new single after coming back as アリス九號., "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-, is quite conscious of having Japanese elements.
Tora: On the contrary, because we are in these times, I think it's interesting that we included this many Japanese elements.
It's even more Japanesque than the songs you had in the early days of アリス九號.
Tora: That's right. The costumes are similar to what we had when we first started, but it's appropriate for us now, who have gone back to being アリス九號. It's like once again, we released an アリス九號. song that everyone surely imagines us to be like.
Is the coupling song "Ageha" one of your songs?
Tora: It is. This song is one that fires up the crowd to make them stage dive. It's a song that I randomly wrote at the time thinking "Let's write a song that will fire up the crowd during the live show" so much to the point that it's embarrassing for it to be released on CD. So I thought that it would never be recorded onto a CD and there would never be footage of it. That's why I never knew the lyrics and played the song having no idea what was being sung (laughs). Since we recorded the song, I guess I've finally learned what it was singing about. Show might have re-written the lyrics, so please check it yourself (laughs).
Hahaha. So going forward, what would you, who is always looking for interesting things, like to do as アリス九號.?
Tora: I say this as a half-joke, but there is just one thing that I think is in the realm of "possible" for us. And that is through our band name "アリス九號.", to really become a 9-member band (laughs).
Meaning to get more members?
Tora: I think it would be funny if we got more members (laughs).
That's a little umm... (laughs)
Tora: The average age would immediately drop (laughs).
(laughs). アリス九號. has always been popular in Asia, but what about being active worldwide?
Tora: I'm glad that we are popular in Asia, but I don't want to go overseas. I hate airplanes.
That's what you focus on? Is there anything you can say about future developments?
Tora: I want to search for something that we can do because we have come back as アリス九號. That is all.
1 Tetsuya Komuro from TM NETWORK, a group that was predominant in the 1990s. Tetsuya Komuro wrote many songs for many pop singers in the 1990s that were extremely popular.
At their 15th anniversary tour final that was held at Hibiya Open Air Concert Hall on August 10, their band name changed back to the original "alicenine." from the "A9" that we have gotten familiar with over the last 5 years. Although we heard the reason behind this in the previous issue from the band's frontman, Show, in this issue, we ask each of the members to talk about their feelings towards "alicenine.". With what kind of feelings did they have when facing this band name and the "blend of Japanese and Western styles" concept 15 years ago? Everyone has their own image of "alicenine.", so that means we should be able to see many aspects of the band that is alicenine.
Hiroto, who originally had no interest in words, talks about how he came to the realization that after 15 years, "alicenine" had become his family name. He speaks frankly about how he was under huge mental pressure during the tour, and what saved him was none other than the word "アリス九號.". The feelings of the members and the fans that had always supported them towards this name that he felt at the Hibiya live show, where the renaming of the band was announced, had healed him.
First of all, please tell us your honest thoughts about going back to the name "アリス九號.".
Hiroto: It sort of feels like the blockage is gone. I was struggling for about a year after we had become A9. We had directly and personally negotiated with our company at the time if nothing could be done about the situation. But at the time, nothing could be done about it.
I'm sure they had their own circumstances and was thinking it over and over too.
Hiroto: There was that, but there was also many conflicts.
Like when you button up a shirt wrong.
Hiroto: But there was also the fact that we could not stop anymore. The members did not have the intention of stopping even during the preparation period, but the outside world had stopped. We also made the fans wait. Since it was impossible to stop for any longer, we had no choice but to go (as "A9").
If the issue over the band name was going to stop activities, then you will change the band name.
Hiroto: Exactly. We thought that even if the band name had changed, it would be better to keep on moving forward. So on August 10th, with the words "アリス九號." in the backdrop behind us, the moment we played our new song, "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-", as アリス九號., it just really felt right to me. For the first time in a while, I had felt that feeling of invincibility I had felt during our early days. It made me feel that names are important, after all. I thought that it was my family name. The same goes for "Alice Nine"; the words "alice nine" itself is my family name. Because in my life, the period where I have introduced myself as "alicenine's Hiroto" has been longer. "alice nine" has just become a part of my name.
Even during the A9 period, you probably thought of the "A9" stylisation as being "alice nine".
Hiroto: That's right.
So throughout your lifetime, these 15 years have been the longest... Wait, the math doesn't add up (laughs).
Hiroto: But until changing our name, the intensity was clearly different. The first 10 years were about 3 times as intense.
So in terms, of richness of experience, the period as "アリス九號." was longer. But even looking at the words "アリス九號." now, there is this strong connection to it.
Hiroto: Yeah. I designed goods for the first time in a long time using this logo, and it made me think that it is a strong name, after all. And also, on the contrary, it suits the era.
The katakana and kanji mix.
Hiroto: The Tokyo Olympics are drawing closer, and overseas and throughout the world, katakana and kanji are what's cool about Japan. Not hiragana. Even for brands that are active in Asia and worldwide, quite a lot of them use kanji and katakana. It's like without us knowing it, things have come full circle.
Like the times have finally caught up with "アリス九號." (laughs).
Hiroto: Yeah (laughs).
15 years ago, when the band was named "アリス九號.", what did you think?
Hiroto: Show was the one who named the band, but I thought it was original.
I recall that all of you gave ideas for possible band names. There is the famous story that the candidates were "アリス九 ("alice nine"), "ROSSO", "KORN", and "Ms. Anita". Which idea did you suggest?
Hiroto: I suggested "ROSSO".
How did you come up with that one?
Hiroto: Well, since I'm a person who plays an instrument, at the time, I had no interest in words, and I just couldn't come up with anything else. But they said to me "There's already a band called that, right?" (laughs).
Did you not know of the band ROSSO, which comprises of THEE MICHELLE GUN ELEPHANT's Chiba and BLANKEY JET CITY'S Terui?
Hiroto: I knew of them. I listened to them a lot and really liked them.
Isn't it even worse that you knew of them (laughs)?
Hiroto: I thought that it would be okay since we were in a different genre (laughs). To be honest, I didn't really think that deeply about it. At the time, I had absolutely no awareness that the name would have such power that it has today, or of things that would be born from being given a name,
So to put it another way, you realised the importance of this after 15 years (laughs).
Hiroto: That's right (laughs). At the time, it was more important for the 5 of us to quickly start our activities. We had this feeling that we would definitely do well in this formation, so to put it another way, all other elements were trivial.
You wanted to start moving quickly no matter what.
Hiroto: Right. We were like "We can do something!".
So first you were "アリス九", but when you headed to the livehouse to promote your live show, they said that your name name was like Kyu Sakamoto ("坂本九"), and there, "號" was added to become "アリス九號". After that, a period was added to the end of the name. What did you think at the time?
Hiroto: To be honest, I didn't care (laughs). When we joined our company at the time, they had a diviner who said that the number of strokes in our name was bad and we needed one more stroke, so we should change the band name. But this was around 3 months after we had started, and at a time where we were finally officially starting the band, so we were like, "Huh? We're changing the name?". We were told this during a meeting in a small conference room. Then we saw a poster of a band belonging to the same company on the wall and were all like "Ah!". We were like since our seniors Kagrra, have a comma after their name, let's just put a period after our name (laughs).
The same goes for adding the "號" on the spot, but you guys really are amazing to come up with these things at such times.
Hiroto: Yeah. But I get the feeling that it's always been like this throughout the entire 15 years. When we're in a pinch or have been chased into a corner, we don't really get pessimistic. Well, I don't know if that story about adding a period on the end is negative or not (laughs). But what I think that has not changed about the 5 of us is that even when we ourselves did not want to change our band name, we have good intuition that is more on a positive side.
So starting from there and being "アリス九號." for 5 years, what do you remember the most vividly from that time?
Hiroto: So many things happened that I don't even want to say that I remember this or that the most. Recently, we made a best of album and did a tour for it, and at that time, I really thought that music is the key to the door of memories. Because of that, this year was quite a painful one. I had to face many things and remembered many things.
By facing your older songs.
Hiroto: Yeah. The tour focused on taking a new approach to the songs of the first 10 years, so at each and every live show, at unexpected moments, I would recall many things. Like when I would play phrases. That was exhausting for me, and it continued all the way up until the show at Hibiya.
You remembered all the bad times.
Hiroto: As expected, you normally remember the good things. But for the bad and traumatic memories, you lock it up and seal it away. That's probably a self-defense mechanism of humans. But the locked up memories started pouring out. I do think that at each turning point, there were good memories, but it seems like there are the same level or perhaps even more painful memories.
So you had painful memories that when opened up, had no end. So what about the good memories? Since you had first started out, everything you did was being done for the first time, and there are probably a countless amount of such moments.
Hiroto: That's right. In that respect, in the first 5 years or so, pretty much everything was a first for us. This was something that I had only just talked about with Show during the post-live celebrations of Tora's birthday live show the other day, but thinking about it now, the time from around when we were making our very first album was a special time. That perhaps the process of making the very first album of our lives and the feelings after having made the album wasn't ever experienced again after that. We have a song called "FANTASY", and this is a personal story, but the vocalist of the very first band I was in had passed away before the live show, and I had wanted to turn that into a song at some point in time, when I had joined a band that I could bet my life on. The time had come to write such a song, and when I explained all of this to Show, it turned out that he also had a similar experience. That's why that time was remarkably filled with passion. So even though I do wonder myself what it was that I was doing all the way until morning during the recording of that song (laughs), while going back and forth saying "This isn't it" and "That isn't it", when the mixing was complete and the two of us stepped outside in the morning, we saw a really beautiful morning glow. It was around 6 in the morning. When I saw that, I was really touched.
It's at those times where strangely enough, something like a miracle happens. Well, even if it had been raining that day, you surely would have thought of it as nice scenery (laughs).
Hiroto: Yeah (laughs).
So 5 years after that, the band changed to the English stylisation "Alice Nine". What were your thoughts on that?
Hiroto: At the time, the "九號." image which had suddenly spread from a relatively early stage, in our second or third year of the band, and the logo image was sort of troublesome. Like "アリス九號. is this kind of band, right?". Like there was already a direct connection because of the logo. Also, like I just said, in terms of design, it's quite a strong logo. That's why we wanted to change it as soon as possible. Since half way through the first year or the second year of the band I have been doing goods design, and I felt just how difficult it was to handle the logo. On the contrary, we really didn't use the logo much in the early days of the band.
The goods used English from an early stage.
Hiroto: Yeah. So it felt like we had finally changed the stylisation. Show was also doing the artwork, so I think both of us felt that quite a lot.
To quickly sum up アリス九號. until that point in time, what were those 5 years like?
Hiroto: It was chaos (laughs). Disorder. For better or for worse, and in a variety of ways. PS Company, the company that we were indebted to, itself was chaotic.
Many bands belonged to that company, and you were probably so busy you didn't even get a chance to sleep.
Hiroto: But that was our source of power. We didn't really have any idea what was going on and it really was very stressful. But I think that even that was turned into our songs, into our message, and even contributed to our energy. So it was like a typhoon. Everything was swept up as we were screaming, and it drew in a variety of things.
To go even further, many people were jealous and said that you were a "band that only had good looks", so you must have had a really strong mentality.
Hiroto: That's right. It's like we were always fighting against that. Not to say that it was adding fuel to the fire, but I really feel that that really fired us up even more.
So to sum it up, it was a chaotic period (laughs).
Hiroto: To sum it up, it was a typhoon; a massive typhoon (laughs).
What about the 5 years after becoming "Alice Nine"? A passing of the typhoon (laughs)?
Hiroto: Right, the typhoon had passed and turned into an extratropical cyclone (laughs). We had a career, to a certain extent, and we were always the youngest band, but around that time, juniors like SuG and ViViD joined the company.
You graduated from being the youngest band of the company.
Hiroto: Yeah. We had some solid sales, and started to have more of a right to say things. But how should I put it? To preface this by saying it's not like it was our intention, I think it was a time where we were just soaking in lukewarm water. Even so, speaking for myself, it's when Karasu (a unit with MUCC's Tatsuro, THE THIRTEEN's Mizuki, jealkb's dunch, Ayabie's KENZO) started. Well, we weren't that active, but I did try those things out.
At the time, it was impossible for a PS band member to interact with non-PS people.
Hiroto: It was the first time for a PS band member to do so. Probably. I feel like I was in that kind of position. I was able to eat the food that we weren't allowed to eat during filming.
You were lifting the bans that PS had (laughs).
Hiroto: Pretty much (laughs).
But why were you able to do that? Was it perhaps because they doted on you?
Hiroto: I think so, somehow or another. I have no idea why, but I also went to go watch movies together with the President (laughs). It's not as though I was able to have them listen to me, but I was able to make things work out that way. I think there were some times where they were like "Since it's Hiropon, I guess we can't help it" (laughs).
And from there, you spent 5 years as "A9".
Hiroto: It feels like that time flew by us. It's like we ended up passing the same amount of time as the previous eras. Before we even knew it.
That might have something to do with age. Time passes by for humans as they get older (laughs).
Hiroto: Yeah. But I think quite a big part of it is like what I said before; that the number of new things we were doing was decreasing. People don't get stress when they get used to things. So this is only something I can say in hindsight, but in our "Alice Nine" era, there was a drastic reduction in the stress we had compared to the first 5 years. I think that what made us stressed was things we didn't know, and things we were doing for the first time. It was the other side of the coin of being excited, both physically and mentally. So looking back on the songs that we made at that time, due to there being less stress, rather than passion, I get the feeling that we shifted to being more muted. Including our looks.
Becoming more fashionable, so to speak. So how would you generally sum up the period as A9, which was after spending 5 years as Alice Nine?
Hiroto: Destruction and restoration? We have a song that we made in our 1st year called "Siva & Diva", and that's what it was like. Just when we thought that we had made a comeback with "Phoenix", our wings were broken again (laughs). So we were like "If that's the case, then let's just go all the way underground".
Hahaha. There were many difficulties in the A9 era specific to A9, but since you had built up resilience, it wasn't so bad.
Hiroto: No, we had taken quite a few hits. It made me think that life really does throw many things at you. I had thought that there couldn't be more, but there was. Out in front of me. Constantly. I was like "A stronger typhoon is coming?".
You're comparing it to a typhoon again (laughs). What was your biggest motivation during that time?
Hiroto: It was definitely the fans. And also live shows. To speak of recent matters, and honestly, only because it's over I can say this, but during the tour, or rather, right until the day before our live show at Hibiya, I was really worn out to the point that I was considering requesting that we take a break.
What you spoke about earlier. It was quite a tight schedule, so you must have also been physically exhausted too.
Hiroto: I think that when people get tired, they abandon even providing input. For over two and half years since changing to this organization (self management), there basically hasn't been a month where we haven't played a live show. Personally, the fans and live shows are a huge deal to me. Music can't be seen with the eyes and therefore cannot be touched. It really is a physical thing, but you can't tell if it's there or not if there is no one to receive it. In that respect, live shows are really important. The first moment that you understand that you have people directly receiving your sounds and your heart's message and that it exists is at live shows. To be honest, even those live shows are quite exhausting. I think that it really is two sides of the same coin.
Not playing a live show is painful, but playing a live show is also painful. But you were able to complete the tour, and at the end, see great scenery.
Hiroto: That's right. It was a close one.
But on the other hand, if there was only the A9 era, it might have ended. I'm sure that it's only because you had the 10 years before that, you were able to hold out for that 1 year.
Hiroto: Yeah. If you were to be hit with that kind of thing, it would end. I think that I would have thought "It would be better to quit".
Having a history really is priceless. So to go back to what we were first talking about, overcoming all of that and announcing at Hibiya on August 10 that you would go back to being "アリス九號.", you felt the weight was off your shoulders.
Hiroto: Like the blockage in my throat had been cleared. It's like there was always a lid over us and we couldn't open it, but then it was taken off just like that. I'm sure that not just the name, but us, who had carried that name, and the fans who have feelings when they see this name, felt the same way. It really is connected to that invincible feeling we had when we first formed the band, and at that moment, my wounds had healed.
All at once.
Hiroto: Yes, all at once.
Until this day, I had not known of "アリス九號.", but I think that many people had predicted that you would change your band name. Because even though it was named "A9's last one man tour", it definitely did not feel like it was going to end (laughs).
Hiroto: Hahaha. We also released our plans for after that day from time to time.
I had thought that perhaps you would change your band name to "Alice Nine".
Hiroto: I think fans probably thought the same.
However, to be honest, I was surprised that you changed your band name back to "アリス九號.". I was like "So that's the move they made".
Hiroto: Around 1 year ago when we did the "ALICE IN CASTLE" live show, we all considered the scenarios and when we hammered out every one of them, we had that kind of discussion. Although until the very last minute, we were wondering which name to choose.
Oh, so you were considering these 2 options.
Hiroto: Also, right before the live show, there was also the option of remaining as "A9", since we had come so far. In the end, it was a production of life. Of the people called "alicenine". So that considered, the most dramatic move would be to change the band name to "アリス九號.".
I did think that I was played. So about "Kakumei Kaika - Revolutionary Blooming-", the new song by the newly born "アリス九號.", it's in a really Japanesque style. It really shows your determination, or rather, it's a nice, clean divide. To go all out.
Hiroto: In terms of the style of the song, Saga was the one in control. But we thought that if we were going to do this, we had to go all out.
It gave me the impression that you were doing a modern version of things that referenced the things you did 15 years ago.
Hiroto: That's right. Personally, I call it "アリス九號. 2.0" (laughs).
This is a strange way of saying it, but it's like "A new old アリス九號.". Especially since it's the first release, it really goes all out.
Hiroto: It was like if we didn't do it like this, there would be people who couldn't understand why we changed our band name. There are fans who had prepared themselves for the worst during the A9 era. I'm positive that there would be people who would be like "Why?", if we had only changed our name after clearing all those hurdles. If we were careless about it, there was the possibility that we would have ruined or denied the listeners of their youth. We definitely have to avoid that, and that's not something we should do.
So that's why you went all out.
Hiroto: If we were halfhearted, there would be the possibility that we were denying something from the fans of all 3 eras. That's why I thought that if we didn't update all three dimensions and make people think "Oh, they're doing music with this kind of feeling!" or "They are going to keep attacking from here on", then there would be no point in changing our band name.
I see. So what do you want to do in the next 5 years?
Hiroto: We're doing many things now, and both personally and as a band, with that kind of music at the core, from here on, I would like to build things up again to show what we can do. Personally, I want to properly take on the challenge of doing an Asia tour again. I want to consider what it is that we can do and what it is that we want to do, and then make those things happen.
Will you change your band name again in 5 years? Like back to "A9" or something (laughs)?
Hiroto: We have nothing now. It's like "I don't yet have a name1".
You're making that kind of clever comment?!
Hiroto: We're going very far back (laughs).
1 He said "名前は、未だ無ひ。 (Namae wa, Mada Nai)", the title of their very first single.
At their 15th anniversary tour final that was held at Hibiya Open Air Concert Hall on August 10, their band name changed back to the original "alicenine." from the "A9" that we have gotten familiar with over the last 5 years. Although we heard the reason behind this in the previous issue from the band's frontman, Show, in this issue, we ask each of the members to talk about their feelings towards "alicenine.". With what kind of feelings did they have when facing this band name and the "blend of Japanese and Western styles" concept 15 years ago? Everyone has their own image of "alicenine.", so that means we should be able to see many aspects of the band that is alicenine.
alicenine.'s vocalist Show, who is making his second consecutive appearance in this magazine. In the previous issue, we had Show talk about the reason behind changing the band name back from "A9" to "alicenine.", about alicenine. and the current state of the music scene, from the point of a view of a businessman who is responsible for the band's strategy. This time, as the person who named this band, including with what feelings he had when he named the band, we closed in on Show's point of origin = "darkness". Only because there is poison, there is beauty.
Changing your band name back from "A9" to "alicenine.", you have made a new start. News that you had changed your band name generated a huge response to the point that it was even trending on Twitter worldwide.
Show: That's right. First of all, by changing our name to "A9", from an outsider's perspective, isn't there also the point of view that there could be "people who think that it's not interesting" that the five of us are doing activities? There was this feeling. No matter how much we say that we are doing things properly, there will be a small percentage of doubts. I think that that also goes for the people who really support us. There was this strange feeling of having to correct yourself from saying "alicenine", which we had gotten used to, to "A9". We were painfully aware that everyone felt that way, so in order to overcome that strange feeling, we thought that one of our missions was to change our band name back.
Is that so? And so you changed the band stylisation back to the katakana and kanji mix, reclaiming your band name.
Show: As we were doing our band activities, the music scene in Asia was really livening up, and on a global level, the position of music from Asia was elevated, so as a form on content from Japan, we had to also do our best. So as a "weapon" for that, and furthermore, to show our intention as a band that "returned to their origin", we changed our stylisation to the original "alicenine.".
So does that mean in other words, the choice of this stylisation also has the intention of being on the offensive?
Show: If we were to never change our band name in the future again, I thought that changing it to the English stylisation of "Alice Nine" would be the safest move. I am responsible for design, so from that point of view, it's really difficult to handle; the peculiarity of アリス九號. is too strong. But the overall consensus from the members was a choice that wasn't a safe bet, so in that respect, it really is an attack.
Were there any moments where you felt that the band name had really changed back?
Show: I guess that would be at Tora's birthday live, where I was boldly able to say "We're alicenine.". I thought that it was different from before. Because in the 5 years until then, we did not say it at all.
It was "We're A9".
Show: Right. When the words "alicenine." were born, we had nothing. But the phrase just stirs up the edgy side inside of us, or rather, the poison. It made me think, "So the name "alicenine." has that kind of ring to it and that kind of power to it".
Does that mean the name "A9" stirred up something different inside you?
Show: That might be the case. The source of my creativity are aggressive things, like hatred and grudges, so now that you mention it, there are just some feelings that "A9" doesn't stir up. Even when A9 was caught up in the affairs of the adults without knowing what was what, maybe it's because that we had grown mentally too, but none of that intense, deep black hatred was stirred up. But in the initial period of alicenine., I had done things with a thirst for blood, so this name does stir up those feelings.
No one could get that feeling of bloodlust from looking at the "A9" logo.
Show: Because it's only made up of symbols. When I gave the band the name “alicenine.", for me, there was an actual reason for choosing the word "alice". From when I was a young child to when I was in my teens, I had always thought that perhaps one day when you woke up, you would be a different person. Just like "Alice in Wonderland", perhaps you could fall down a hole and end up in a different world. I was the kind of person who lived having those kinds of fantasies.
What was is that pushed you that far?
Show: It was the expectations of my parents. But I was unable to meet their expectations. There was nothing that made me feel proud of myself. Ever since I was old enough to understand the world around me until elementary school exams, I had received special education. During this special education, I would always run away during class, and my parents and the teachers would find me and bring me back to class. So as a result of me turning and running away from my studies, there was nothing left for me, and there was nothing that could validate my self worth. So I had no choice but to escape from reality. The desire for that kind of person to want to escape from reality is embedded in the name "アリス ( "alice")". The "九號 ("nine")." part is from "(N)INE" of "NUMBER (N)INE (an apparel brand)", which I turned into "九 ("nine")" later, and when I combined it with "アリス", the first thing I thought was that it seemed like a strong name. When I looked up the meaning of "九" on Wikipedia, it said that "In Japanese cosmology, it means the greatest and the strongest", so I chose "九". The basis for me choosing this band name is my low self-esteem, which gave me no choice but to escape from reality, and the feeling of wanting to become stronger in spite of this.
Now that we know about your mentality, we can see your gloomy character and introspective world, especially in the songs during the initial period of the band.
Show: That's right. Precisely because of my view on life and death and because I was in a hopeless hole in the ground where there was only self-denial, there was the light that looked sparkling and beautiful. That is the root of my expression.
It was all you could aspire to; a world that was shining brightly with light. Even though you look like a prince (laughs).
Show: I think that if I really were a prince that was shining brightly, the stars would not shine. Because the prince himself is the one that is shining. For some reason, lately, many people have been saying to me "Show, let's do what is that the root of your expression".
Saga talked passionately about that in this issue.
Show: In terms of how my resources are used, I have the temperament of a creator, so I'm a moody, unpleasant, desperate, and clumsy person. But Saga tells me things, Ken (L'Arc～en～Ciel) tells me things, and Kei (BAROQUE) tells me things. So as someone on the receiving end of being told things, I had somehow managed to do things in a good way. Things were different at the very beginning. I took the lead and actively decided on everything.
When alicenine. first formed?
Show: Yes. For songs, I would be giving instructions to everyone, like "Let's do this kind of song next", and we would jam in the studio and make songs that way. From the setlist to the homepage to the flyers; I did everything. So when the band's level began to gradually increase, all of a sudden, it had hit me. That I sucked at singing (awkward smile).
It's not as though you were aiming to become a vocalist. And yet this band had required a vocalist that could sing well.
Show: I had painfully realised that I was awful at singing, and so once again, I lost my confidence. That's when Saga had started to work really hard for us.
In other words, that is where the baton for the musical leader had changed.
Show: That's right.
But after becoming A9 and managing the band yourselves, you have suddenly changed into a frontman with unshakeable confidence. You have the determination to pull in the audience with your emotional talking, such as saying "As long as you are happy, I don't care if people are laughing behind our backs. I will do anything for you", and since becoming a confident frontman, there has been no wavering in your singing. I think that your awareness as a frontman had completely changed once you became A9. What are your thoughts on this?
Show: All of one's life and humanity shows in singing. Although I was really bad at singing when alicenine. first formed, I was overflowing with the energy like that of a stray dog saying, "Just watch me, I'm going to rise to the top". What left an impression on me was a blog post from someone who had watched us at an event at the time, saying "What the hell is with these guys? They can't do a single thing right, but they have this overwhelming aura of winners. You can't help but feel overwhelmed by them".
Even though you were bad, the aura that you were winners was on full display.
Show: At first, that was good in its own way. But before we knew it, we made our major debut after 1 year. That meant that from there on, our craft was commercialised. To become commercialised means that what determines what the correct answer is is not the creator, but the customer. It's a matter of whether the customer wants it or not. When we reframed our activities in that manner, at the time, I did not have the tolerance, the skills, or the personality to take on the burden of expression as a commercial business. On top of that, including the staff, no one had said anything to me about my singing.
Like "You're off pitch"?
Show: Yeah. I want to tell my past self to say "Someone teach me how to sing" (laughs).
In a previous issue of "ROCK AND READ", you also said that none of the members had ever pointed out problems with your singing.
Show: Like "This is what sucks about him but this is what he's good at". The same applies to all the members. Even if we are severely lacking in something, we all have our own unique capabilities. We're a band that combines such unique capabilities.
What was the reason behind the dramatic change to your singing, which was something you were lacking in, in A9?
Show: I said that singing shows one's life and humanity, but until the change to A9, I had not understood what it meant for the people who came to hear the music live, and the true essence of that. Music is very black. Even though they don't know what it will be like live, the audience pays really far ahead in advance, and they are even required to make an additional payment for handling fees. Even if they were to buy tickets many months in advance, the tickets are done by lottery, and even if you were to score a ticket, the ticket has a certain entry number. Despite such unreasonable conditions, they come to see us live and headbang. Considering that this is a service industry, compared to other services, isn't it a very failed service? But of all the options available to them, they purposely choose music and come to see us live. It was around the 9th year that I was able to intrinsically understand the significance of that. Since then, I've been doing music not as my job, but with the feelings of living out each and every day to the maximum. It was from around the "Alice Nine 9th Anniversary #1 "World's End Daybreak"" tour where the audience gradually understood that we were being serious about it.
From then on, music was not work, but had become your life.
Show: Yes. That way, I understood what the audience was doing for us, and when I treated the audience with the determination that was aware of that, I began to see something different. I look at each and every person and wonder what I can do for them. If the capacity of the venue is 350 people, it is not just 350 people. For example, although to the person who is at the very back of Takadanobaba AREA against the wall and probably can only see a small part of me, all I can do for them is to reach my hand out to them and sing in this 8-bar rhythm, and have them feel that. That is what I am doing with each and every person now. By doing so, I can finally face each and every person that comes to see us live, and for the first time, I can exist as a frontman. I think that was probably communicated to you. So it's not a simple matter of me being able to be on pitch now.
In the past, with what kind of feelings did you have while standing on stage?
Show: I was scared when the audience was pushing towards the front, and I didn't know what to do. So I did my best to put on a brave face. Now I am standing on the stage making it a point to consider each and every person in the room. If we are playing a solo show, it's for two and a half hours. It's about just how much we can make it a valuable memory in the lives of the people who come to see us. I don't think of it as us offering time, but I constantly think about shining as something important to them and as sharing something with each other. That is why everyday, as if it was an ordinary thing to do, I stretch while listening to the music of the world. Even when I go to restaurants and such, I think about whether or not I can utilise this hospitality with the band. It's not as though I am working hard on each and every thing separately; it's connected like a neural network. I think that this becomes my humanity and my singing, and is being communicated to everyone. Since I only think about what I can do for each and every person that comes to see us play live and how I should face them, I don't mind dancing or acting. To us, there is a single connection between each and every thing and there are no lies there, so I think we are able to do that kind of thing without any hesitation.
That means that there is a single connection in terms of how you live your life.
Show: Right. I am not telling any lies when I am on stage. The way I live my life shows on stage. If I think that at least on the outside, I have to be everyone's prince, then it will just be a live show where some guy putting on airs is trying to do Visual-kei music. So rather, it's my attitude. It really is about how I live my life. The way I'm talking makes me sound like I'm in a punk rock band though (laughs).
alicenine. is a band where it is difficult to see the essence of that. When you first formed, people called you a band that only had good looks or an idol band, but since becoming A9, you all set down your instruments and actually danced like idols, so some people wondered what it was that you wanted to do. When you said earlier that there was a single connection, I feel like that is hard to communicate to other people apart from fans.
Show: I suppose so. alicenine. fans really are strong, to love this kind of rubbish prince.
I'm sure that fans were also asked things like "Who is A9?" and "Why are they dancing, even though they're a band?".
Show: And yet they don't get startled. I think the essence is communicated to the audience who come to watch us live now.
The bond between you and your fans has gotten stronger.
Show: Yes, I feel that way.
Even though you're a rubbish prince.
Show: It makes me want to apologise to them (laughs). Even so, we bare our hearts and face each and every person without lying to them, so that their lives can shine even brighter. That is all that I can say as alicenine.'s Show.
And so, "Let's become stars".
Show: Oh. I don't have any memories from lives around that time (laughs). That's why I have no idea why I blurted that out. I think what I meant was that we should head towards what is shining together and become happy.
So let's change the subject and talk about alicenine.'s single "Kakumei Kaika - Revolutionary Blooming-". Together with changing your band name back to the starting point, apparently there was a request from Saga to also write the lyrics in the same way you did when the band first started. What was it like to write lyrics in the same manner you did when the band first started?
Show: I had to write the lyrics while facing my past traumas, so it was difficult. These kinds of lyrics are about facing oneself. While mumbling all the time, I faced myself to write down the words, and since the writing style is about facing myself, it was really difficult. Since being able to work with major producers, they would always have requests like "Make this one a love song" or "Make this a song for the Winter", so the way I wrote lyrics too had also become mechanical. Writing lyrics in that way is easy. But what Saga requested this time was lyrics born from me facing myself, like the trauma I experienced as a child, so it was really difficult writing these lyrics. Even now I feel like throwing up when I see paperback books. I'm fine with Kindle, but I feel sick when I see paperback books.
Why is that?
Show: I think it's because when I was a kid, my parents told me to read books, so I was forced to read books to death. I still have memories of the Japanese literature that I read back then, so these things come out.
Literary words.
Show: Yes. People tell me "That's like an expression so and so would use", and I would go back and read it on my Kindle. Those words just pop out when I am writing lyrics while facing myself. Lately, I've been going to watch kabuki. Kabuki talks about life and death and the nobility of things that are not eternal, so it fit right in with my lyrics. I thought that my lyrics were similar to kabuki. With my lyrics, in general, someone has died. The same goes for kabuki.
Like double suicide.
Show: Yeah. That's when I thought that it's not wrong to say that we have a "blend of Japanese and Western styles" (laughs).
Where did the whole "blend of Japanese and Western styles" thing originally come from?
Show: At first, we were told by our company to decide on a concept, and while thinking "We don't have that kind of thing", I took lots of notes. As a result of all these notes, I forcibly said that a "blend of Japanese and Western styles" was our concept.
Forcibly?
Show: Yes, forcibly. I have this memory of getting angry at our manager at the time, saying that it was a blend of Japanese and Western styles, because we combined "アリス ("alice")" with "九號." and because the lyrics were in Japanese, even though it was rock music (laughs).
Were the lyrics for the coupling song "Sara Sousou" also written in the same manner?
Show: Yes. In terms of the sound, it is at the forefront of creativity, but to have these kinds of lyrics is awesome, right? "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-" was written before watching kabuki, so after watching kabuki, I thought that my lyrics were really similar to kabuki. So these are lyrics I wrote without even thinking about it.
Even with the title "Sara Sousou", with that manner of writing, you easily wrote the lyrics.
Show: It just comes to me. As for the meaning, even I don't really know. There is a flower called shorea robusta (沙羅双樹 "Sara Soju" in Japanese) and the lyrics show the spiritual world of nirvana and paint out the process of one's soul being purified. The ending has the feeling of a ceremonial bonfire and becoming smoke to return to nature.
Going back to the way you used to write lyrics, the choice of words is really unique, and though beautiful, there is that view of life and death.
Show: Although as a businessman, I look at this and think "Is there demand for this?" (laughs). But there's no helping it, because this is what comes out when I face myself. I wonder if there is this much of a need for my individuality to this extent? When I was a child, I really did want to die and thought about that every day. Even though I told my juniors "Every time I look at my own face in the mirror, I want to die", they never believed me (laughs). But that my individuality and wickedness is brought out may just be the band's individuality. That's why I think that at least for the next release, I have to write in this manner and create something that will make people think that this band is amazing.
Now that you have returned to the name alicenine., what would you like to do going forward?
Show: It's a bit contradictory to my personality, which is a little businessman-like, but I would like to go all out with the creativity I have in this current mode and see where it takes us. I want to let everything out. Although this might lead to the creation of something grotesque.
alicenine. DI:GA Interview (Part One), October 2019
alicenine. restarting! This is an interview with all members about the feelings in that name, and the live shows with three different themes (Part 1)!
A9 are restarting as alicenine.
At the 15th anniversary live that A9 held at Hibiya Open Air Hall, <A9 LAST ONEMAN TOUR BEST OF A9 TOUR ALIVERSARY FINAL & 15TH ANNIVERSARY>, the moment that they announced that they would change their name back to the original "alicenine." and resume activities, they garnered a lot of attention, to the point that it was in the global trend ranking on Twitter.
alicenine., who came back at their festival, <Beautiful Beast Festival> on August 24, will finally begin full scale activities.
From October, they will hold their first solo tour since changing their name, <alicenine. ONEMAN TOUR 2019 "Kakumei Kaika ep1. -Zettai "Kuro" Ryoiki">. After that, they will hold <alicenine Christmas Concert "Kakumei Kaika ep2. - SYMPHONIC ALICEMAS 2019"> on December 25 at LINE CUBE SHIBUYA, Tokyo, and then <alicenine. New Year Concert 2020 "Kakumei Kaika ep.3 -SYMPHONIC GALAXY-"> at Osaka Conference Center on January 5, 2020.
We decided to do an interview with them, who are doing three different live series centered around their restart single, "Kakumei Kaika -Revolutionary Blooming-", which goes on sale October 23. In the first part, we heard their thoughts about the live shows, and in the second part, we ask about the new single.
First of all, can you please tell us the reason why you changed your band name back from A9 to alicenine. at your 15 year anniversary?
Show: The fans didn't know the circumstances as to why, but they were frustrated, like "Can we not say 'alice nine'?". I think that they were supporting us while always feeling as if something was stuck in their throat. So in response to that, I thought that we needed to send an official message that "It's okay to say 'alice nine'". So with the cooperation of many people, by us being able to do activities with the name "alicenine.", we changed our band name. We all discussed and decided to change the stylisation to "alicenine.". Since we thought as we are going to the lengths of changing our band name back, that it would be a good idea to return to our roots, and this is how we chose to do that.
Saga: First of all, in any case, we wanted to change the stylisation from A9 to 'alice nine'. So if we were to change the stylisation, we realised that we had 2 ways to stylise our name. So at that time, we didn't want to change our band name any more, and since we were changing it, it would seem half-hearted if it didn't give people the impression "They've finally come back" when looking at the name, so we decided to change it back to "alicenine.". With the name we had when we first formed that was a mix of katakana and kanji, there are still people around us who will say that ""alicenine." had more of an impact", if you ask them. But in fact, the English stylisation of "ALICE NINE" casually underneath the katakana and kanji band name was there since the beginning.
Hiroto: But back then, it was in the lower case "alice nine". This time it's in upper case.
Saga: We were like "If it's like this, we can use both "alicenine." and "ALICE NINE"".
So you all had the feeling of wanting to change the band name back.
Saga: Of course, we had the resolve of doing activities with the name "A9". But as we were doing our activities, as expected, there were glimmers of it. There were many kinds of those moments. We would even sometimes make mistakes on the radio, saying "I'm alicenine.'s-- uhh, A9". That happened to us. Even after five years, there was still a part of us that wasn't used to it (the name "A9").
Nao: I, on the other hand, was used to the name, so I'm like "Oh right, we were alicenine.", and it feels like I'm not yet used to this name (laughs).
Hiroto: Isn't that because after becoming A9, you've been coming to the front of the stage and firing up the audience, and starting to do stuff that you never did before?
Nao: That might be it! I think that because of those five years as A9, we will be able to show the reborn alicenine. from here on.
Hiroto: For me, it just really felt right, changing the name back to "alicenine.". The same goes for me too, but by becoming A9, we created a situation where the fans could not say the name of the thing that they liked. I hated that we had created a situation where the fans couldn't even say the name "alice nine" when asked which artists they like. I design the goods, so I always thought that names are important. Originally, A9 was a name that we had given ourselves during a period of preparation. So that is the meaning behind a part of the A9 logo being fragmented.
Is that so?
Hiroto: Since it was a name we had planned to use only during our period as a chrysalis until preparations were complete, the logo was made that way. However, unexpectedly, the preparation period until we could become an adult insect and flap our wings ended up being long (laughs). But thinking about it now, I think that at that time, it wasn't probably the time for us to be flying. I think that we are the way we are now because of the various experiences we had during those five years. So at the Hibiya Open Air Hall encore. When the backdrop changed to alicenine., the moment we played our live show with that behind us, it just felt really right. I fully realised that after all, we are alicenine. Saying "I'm alicenine.'s Hiroto" is like a family name. I understand that during these last five years, the fans were desperately trying to like "A9's Hiroto", and I even kept telling myself that, but as expected, "I'm alicenine's Hiroto" just feels right. So that is why from here on, I would like to engrave the current alicenine. into everyone.
Tora: In our fifteen years of doing activities, that we spent five of those years as A9 means that one third of our activity history is A9, right?
That's what it means.
Tora: That we did it for that long was shock to me. But I think it was a good thing. Because if we were able to continue on as a band with that name, I think the band would probably have gotten stuck in a rut. Isn't there no impact when you do this for fifteen years with the same members? To just keep on going like that? The fans will also get bored. If nothing happens, then there is no point in liking something for a long time. Isn't it more fun when there is some kind of event? For me, even with games, when the game is not updated frequently, I stop playing right away. So in that respect, I think it was a good thing, that we became A9.
Hiroto: Since we had been doing this as alicenine. and ALICE NINE for ten years, if we can kept on going at that rate, we might have played it safe.
Tora: Right.
It might have been precisely because you had a somewhat eccentric band name, A9, that you were able to take on wild challenges, such as setting down your instruments on stage and dancing with choreography, or doing a live show while saying lines, like a stage play.
Tora: That's right. Had we not changed our name, we might have been an average band, and you might have suddenly gotten a notice that the service was ending (laughs).
And Tora, you also actually had an accident, where you were suddenly struck with a huge illness.
Tora: Yeah, that's true. This is something that I can only say because I am able to live without any issues, but in terms of the results, it was a good thing.
So please tell us about your live shows. Should we think of the nationwide solo tour "Kakukei Kaikai ep1. -Zettai "Kuro" Ryoiki", the Christmas Concert "Kakukei Kaika ep2. -SYMPHONIC ALICEMAS 2019", and the New Year Concert 2020 "Kakumei Kaika ep3. -SYMPHONIC GALAXY-" as lives that will be done with different themes?
Show: Yes. By changing the band name back to alicenine., in the series of things to come, Saga had told me that it meant that there were a variety of ways to express ourselves. Because the direction and production of the lives are centered around Saga. The same goes for the theme this time, "Kakumei Kaika". The first series of lives, "Zettai 'Kuro' Ryoiki", will be live shows with an intense, mysterious, and sexy feeling, just like last year. The live shows in December and January will be a collaboration with an orchestra, and have the word "symphonic" in the title. Regarding the live on January 5 in Osaka, the first time we played a solo show in Nippon Budokan was January 6. The title of that show was <Alice Nine Live Tour 10 "FLASH LIGHT from the past" FINAL TOKYO GALAXY>, so the live show in Osaka is going to include an homage to that Budokan live. Until now, there were many times we had gone on a hardcore tour for half of the year and then rested. However, this year, we played live shows right until August, and normally, we would rest, but we will tour again in October, and we also have a release. Since we are intermittently continuing activities, it might be a bit tough. But we have done this for 15 years. When we did our event the other day at Shinkiba Coast, <Beautiful Beast Fest.>, Aiji (LM.C) had said to us, "The reason why everyone is supporting you so much is because they all know just how difficult it is to keep a band going for 15 years. Because they have that respect for you, they are all supporting you". While valuing the fact that we are able to keep going, and while showing gratitude for that, I'd like to perceive what is happening now as something as important, and do live shows with the aspirations of wanting to grow even bigger.
<SYMPHONIC ALICEMAS>, which features an orchestra, was held in Tokyo last year and was a huge success. It seems like the show in Osaka will be different from that, though.
Saga: It will be. When we decided to do a live show in collaboration with an orchestra, which was well received last year in Tokyo, a part of us also wanted to show the same thing in Osaka too. The show in Tokyo will be during the Christmas period, but the show in Osaka will be our first live show at the start of the new year, so it will be different from the show in Tokyo. Even though for both days, we will bring in an orchestra. So the contents of the shows will be different. It's going to be contents that people who come to both shows can be satisfied with.
At ALICEMAS last year, that you were all on stage in formal attire left an impression.
Saga: Not just us, but the people who came also came dressed nicely. But personally, I don't want it to be that formal. Because it's a live show. I do think that there is the image that a collaboration with an orchestra means the show is grandiose and that it's more like a concert you listen to in silence. But actually playing the show last year, it was completely different. So it's not something so formal like a concert, but more like a live show, so although it's perfectly fine to come dressed nicely, I hope that they don't overdo it. Of course, there is absolutely no problem with coming in a rough style, like wearing a shirt. The same goes for Osaka. For Osaka, I think that it might interesting to do the kind of thing we once did at Budokan, but with an orchestral arrangement. We are still at the stage where we will decide what to do.
But before the end of the year shows, first, you have the nationwide tour which starts in October.
Nao: Yes. On this tour, we will play at the same venues we played at on our first solo tour during our initial alicenine. days.
So that is how you chose the venues.
Show: Yes. Tokyo is a different venue because back then, we played at SHIBUYA-AX(1), but every other venue is where we played at on our first solo tour.
Nao: So for us too, it's deeply emotional. Because we still have memories from our first solo tour. It's also our first solo tour after changing our name back, so there are many things to consider. Personally, I think that this year, I'd better start working harder on the drums. On our first tour after changing our name back, I'd like to play the drums crisply to bring the songs to life.
Hiroto: Hearing what Nao just said, I remember that I still have a scar from when I bumped into and cut myself on the fence when packing up equipment at Fukuoka DRUM SON on our first solo tour (smile). I'm really looking forward to the tour. I mentioned it earlier, but the moment I was on stage at Hibiya Open Air with "alicenine." in the background, something overcame me. I am looking forward to being able to go on a nationwide tour again with that name. Together with the concept, I think that the tour will be something quite powerful. The outfits this time too are quite risque. Since the venues this time are quite small, feel free to touch.
All: (laughs).
Tora: You should come and see us, since all of our outfits are so cool to the point that you want to touch us!
What kind of clothes should the audience wear?
Tora: I'm not looking at what the audience is wearing!
Umm...
Tora: Oh, right. If they buy and wear the shirt we are selling as goods, I'll look at them (laughs).
The second part of the interview is scheduled to go up on October 23rd!
(1) SHIBUYA-AX was a livehouse in Shibuya, Tokyo, which closed in May, 2014. It is where they shot the “ ALICE IN WONDEЯ FILM” DVD.
ROCK AND READ vol. 76 - Hiroto (A9) x Kei (BAROQUE) Interview
Photo credit: ROCK AND READ Twitter
Sympathy.
The BAROQUE and A9 two band show held last September, "Singularity". In order to discover the root of the overflowing euphoria there, we asked the two, who appear to be complete opposite, but actually give off the same aura and are friends in private too, about how they met and their relationship. The two met, as if something had brought them together, and their lives were perfectly suited to each other. So that this was possible, I think that they let everything -- including fans, sounds, and light -- at that place resound together.
This is actually the first time for you two to do a talk session together. By the way, what do you call each other?
Hiroto: Kei-chan (laughs).
Kei: Hiropon (laughs).
Was it like that from the beginning?
Kei: I think it was.
Hiroto: Yeah, it was, since the beginning.
Where did you first meet?
Kei: A guitarist meeting in 2012.
Hiroto: That was where we first spoke in person.
Kei: I knew of Show and Tora because they formed a band with the guys that were roadies for BAROQUE (baroque at the time), but until then, I had never met Hiropon. Even when I happen to meet the other members at a live or something, it was only him that I never met.
Hiroto: Yep.
Kei: So the first time I actually met him was at a guitar meeting in 2012. Even before that, around 2004, when I was dead drunk with SID's Aki, we called him and spoke over the phone. At a time when we didn't know each other at all (laughs).
Hiroto: We weren't even acquaintances.
Kei: Even though neither of us were acquaintances with him, we somehow got a hold of his phone number, so we called him with the intention of inviting him out.
Do you remember that?
Hiroto: I definitely do. I was sober at the time (laughs).
Kei: I remember it clearly too.
Hiroto: Kei was talking like any other sober person.
Kei: The other guy was drunk off his face (laughs).
Hiroto: There was something wrong with the other guy (laughs). I got a call from an unknown number, and when I answered, it was them two. They said "I heard you're a passionate guy. Come hang out with us right now". But I didn't go (laughs).
Kei: He was really cold (laughs).
Even though you weren't acquainted, did you know much about Hiroto?
Kei: At that stage, I probably virtually knew nothing about him. I only saw him in magazines, and my impression was that he had a really attractive face, and the type of face I like. That was it (laughs).
Hiroto: Ahahaha.
Kei: It might be strange for me to say this about myself, but at that time, there were a lot of bands that were similar to BAROQUE. That was something that we ourselves were fed up with, and we weren't really interested in those bands. But A9 (alicenine. at the time) was a little different from that. They were more like -- and this might be a bad way to put in -- but they had this feeling about them that was more like that of hosts (laughs). For some reason or another, I looked at them thinking that they were new, thinking "Visual-kei has changed again". Well, since I knew Show, I thought that they were doing their best.
Hiroto: I knew a bit about him. To be honest, I didn't know much about the Visual-kei of that time. When I finally started going to livehouses, I would ask my seniors and so on things, and it was like I finally learned about which bands were currently popular, and that this was a crazy scene. When I thought I needed to ask someone about these things, I asked K, who used to be in BORN, because we were in a band together when we were students. He said to me "This band is really cool!", and brought over music from when BAROQUE was still in their indies phase, and I would listen to that. Since that time, the guitar left a really strong impression on me. I thought that the phrasing and choice of tone seemed very similar to my own roots, and it got me interested.
And it was in 2012, 8 years after that phone call, that you actually met him at the guitarist meeting.
Hiroto: Quite some time in between those events.
Kei: That was when we first started holding these guitarist meetings, and there weren't that many participants, but even so, about 15 or so people would show up. Of those people, only the two of us were from a similar generation.
Hiroto: We were also the youngest.
Kei: Our seats just happened to be close, so we greeted and talked to each other.
Hiroto: If I remember correctly, right before we sat down, we locked eyes and I thought "Oh!". So we greeted each other and started talking, and kept on talking forever.
You suddenly just clicked.
Kei: We did.
Hiroto: We did. When we first locked eyes, it was like something hit me. I thought that he had the look of someone slightly different from the rest. Even since that time, isn't he my senior, in terms of career? Even so, I knew that we were similar ages, and my first impression of him at that moment was that he was someone I wanted to know more about. I knew in an instant that he was the type to live out his life to the fullest. Somehow, he had intense eyes.
What was your first impression of Hiroto?
Kei: I had heard about him since there were many people around me that knew him. They were like "Hiroto is this kind of person". I heard things like he doesn't usually go out to drink, but he really loves music. When we locked eyes, thinking that since we were a similar age, we would be on the same wavelength, and I started talking to him. It's a weird thing for me to say about myself, but people always think that I'm difficult to get close to. Musicians from the same generation never talk to me (laughs).
Hiroto: Hahahaha!
Kei: I know it myself that I give off that feeling and I have self-awareness. But when I start talking, at the heart of it, I'm quite like a elementary or middle school kid (laughs).
Hahaha! I get that (laughs).
Kei: Hiroto is a person that can remain friends with that kind of school kid (laughs). He just tears down that barrier. Or how should I put it. He is also a really young kid. Doesn't he have that young boy feeling, especially from how he looks? I don't think that applies to me (laughs). He breaks apart that shell and can talk to you like a school kid. Or rather, we can go back to the time when we were in elementary school, when we first started playing the guitar.
I really understand what you mean. Your impressions of each other is the same impression I have of you both (laughs).
Hiroto: Hahahaha! But I don't have that intention at all. On the contrary, I only do that with the people that I think will be okay to talk to. So that's why at the time, I barely had any guitarist friends that were around the same age or a bit younger.
The impression I have of Hiroto is that he's friendly with everyone, and your eyes are always shining brightly.
Kei: That's certainly true.
Hiroto: My eyes probably only shine to certain people (laughs).
You also have the image of strongly approaching people without any hesitation.
Kei: He does that have image.
Hiroto: That's because the day after I got that phone call from Akki (SID's Aki) in 2004, we became close, and ever since then, we sometimes hang out. I'm friends with KENZO too, so I do have friends in the same generation, even though the instruments we play are different. But until 2012, there weren't that many people around me to whom I could talk to about the guitar just like when you were a kid, saying things like "that's cool, right?".
Kei: This doesn't apply to our seniors of the guitarist meeting, but I get the feeling that there weren't that many guys in the same generation as myself that was serious about the guitar. I thought that most of the guys in my generation only ever talked about money or girls, so I never really gave them the time of day (laughs). My attitude was that I wouldn't talk to people who didn't talk because they wouldn't be interesting even if they did talk.
Hiroto: But the moment our eyes met, I thought that he was different. When I started to talk to him, I found that I could talk to him without any hesitation.
I don't know if the two of you meeting was fate or inevitable, but it seems like at any rate, right from the beginning, you were on the same wavelength. But 2012 was the year BAROQUE restarted activities, and it wasn't such a happy time like it is now.
Kei: It wasn't. It was a time where I had plenty of troubles.
You were struggling with things at the time.
Kei: Yes, I was struggling. So in that respect, meeting him really played a big part in me being able to regain my pure self. Thanks to him, I could see how I actually wanted to be.
Around that time A9 (Alice Nine at the time) had just played at Budokan the previous year, and you guys were struggling too.
Hiroto: We were. After we released the album "9", and after we released the kind of album that musicians do, that is packed with sounds, "GEMINI", we were like "So, what next?". But it was also a time where we had our 10th year anniversary in sight.
Kei: Both of us were in our mid-20s, and there weren't that many people in the same generation as us around who were bands that had been playing as long as us. In that respect, I was able to talk to him. Or rather, our level of experience was similar.
Hiroto: Although it might be naive to categorise people into those who have played at Budokan and those who haven't, when you talk about that sort of thing, it kind of leaves a bad impression, and people say to you "What do you have to complain about?". But when I met him, it also happened to be around the same time where I started to think about many things in terms of my age, like if the band could keep on going at this rate, or if I could keep on being a guitarist at this rate. In that environment, he was a person that I could talk to about that sort of thing without any hesitation.
It must have been that you could understand each other because you were in similar circumstances.
Kei: I get the feeling that we each probably had a part of the answer that we wanted with regards to each other's troubles and struggles we had at the time, so we compared answers. It was that kind of time. I really get the feeling that the timing was impeccable.
Hiroto: We also both happened to have time as well. The time to just happen to become close.
It was a period where you had some time, in terms of the pace of your activities.
Hiroto: Yeah. For about the one month after we first met, we pretty much met every day.
Kei: We did.
Hiroto: I was able to talk to him at great length, or rather, just like a school kid, about that kind of thing. Like "This is the kind of music I'm liking lately".
Kei: We had met at a place where there were also people that we had listened to when we were in middle school. In that respect, it wasn't the kind of wild fantasies we would have as kids, but we were actually able to go to such meetings in real life, so as we were in our 20s, we often talked about what we could do going forward and how we should be. Our seniors were there, and aren't people in their 40s now doing really amazing things in the Visual-kei scene? I get the feeling that at the time, we would talk forever about hating to be a mere follower of that legacy and about what we could do.
That's amazing. I mean, didn't you only just meet at that time? And despite that, being able to talk about such deep things makes me even a little jealous, as a fellow man.
Kei: We only just happened to meet at that guitarist meeting, and isn't it not a place that everyone can go to so easily? I think that we met because of some sort of fate, or precisely because we had been in a band for so long. In that respect, it must have been inevitable. Because it's not as though some random guys just got together. Or rather, it's that we met at a place where we were supposed to meet.
Hiroto: Yeah. I think that it was a really good thing we met there.
If there is any specific advice that you were given at the time when you were struggling and had troubles, please tell us.
Hiroto: There's actually quite a lot of advice.
Kei: Although we exchanged many words, it's just as I just mentioned. There were many things going on, and 10 years since my debut had passed, so I had gotten used to the music industry, had my sore spots, and although to a certain extent, there were parts that I had given up on, but the biggest thing that he gave me was that he reminded me that I had a pure, school kid self, and he drew that part out of me. That's why I think that after that, when BAROQUE became a two member group and can play music like this, is definitely because of that. I realised that that is my core and that has not changed, and I think that it is definitely thanks to Hiropon.
Hiroto: Looking back, the time I met him was just when I was starting to think about any things. It was a time where I thought about if I can really go on as a guitarist at this rate quite a lot.
Kei: That's what you are like during such times. Even if until that point, you have been a professional musician, you wonder if you can strengthen your resolve or not.
Hiroto: Yeah. I thought things like in terms of my age, perhaps there were actually other paths for me. At the time, I wanted to be a swordsmith (laughs). It was a period where I seriously thought that that path was possible too. I'm not kidding.
That's cool as well (laughs)!
Hiroto: I met him during a time where I thought to become a backpacker and travel the world. As I talked to him more, I learned that he had some pretty wild experience since his teen years. I'm sure there are some readers out there who know of his travels (laughs). When I tried imagining myself in that position, to see how I would turn out if something like that happened to me at that age, I couldn't imagine it. In a situation where it wouldn't be strange if a person who wasn't into it would quit, he never snapped and continued to make music. He had that kind of strength inside him, and I discovered that the more I talked to him. I was always with him, even in the times where his band had lost members, right after we got to know each other. Even though it was clearly a situation that was incredibly painful and where one would think that they couldn't go on, there was never a time when his eyes were dull.
Kei: That's not true. They were dull.
Hiroto: No, not at all. Even so, as I listened to the music that he created, thinking that he created it under such circumstances, I thought it was really something else. That was really motivating for me, and though it's weird to say, and I thought that my band could still do more with all our members. He gave me that power.
That was a nice story. It was the end of 2014 when A9 had left its company at the time, and the event that BAROQUE and A9 first played at together was the 2015 New Years' Event, "Tokyo Chaos 2015". In those 3 years from when you met, were you interacting privately in terms of music?
Kei: Though we didn't write any songs, we would play the guitar together.
Hiroto: We also often went to instrument shops together. Looking at equipment and stuff.
Kei: At first, Hiropon taught me quite a lot about guitar equipment. I was quite indifferent to equipment. At the time, I only ever thought about song composition.
Hiroto: I, on the other hand, often asked him about song composition. I get the feeling I asked him many things, like "With what feelings did you write this song?".
Did you ever have any falling out during that time? Like a difference of opinions leading to an argument?
Kei: We don't fight.
Hiroto: We don't. This is getting a little ahead, but after we had gone independent, since we had to do everything ourselves, we were increasing the number of people we were connecting to. And after all, doesn't the connection with each and every person become weaker the more people you are connected to? So during a time when I didn't contact him, he warned me in person. He was able to straight out tell me, "That's not the right thing to do. You should do things more properly". At the time -- and I had thought this from before then -- I really thought that he was a lifetime friend; someone that I should value.
Kei: In general, I am always straightforward. Even to my own members. Although, there were times where being straightforward did not turn out well (laughs). Personally, I don't like the idea of thinking something about someone but not saying it to them. With Hiropon in particular, until then, we were always together. I think I understand what kind of person he is, and I think of him like family, so I knew which direction he was aiming for, and what kind of person he wanted to be, so I make it a point to tell him that if he keeps going at this rate, he perhaps won't be able to be that kind of person. I'm sure that there will be people you will get into fights with by saying that, but with him, there wouldn't be any of that. He would accept that criticism, and on the other hand, I was also told something similar by him.
It really is a wonderful relationship that you two have, to be able to say things like that to each other.
Kei: It's because there are things that happen that really make you worry. Especially with the timing of going independent, it's a really delicate situation, and if not done properly, can't it also affect the continuation of the band itself? Or rather, it's not a matter that's unrelated to me.
Do you have any memories of the time you played at "Tokyo Chaos 2015" at the end of 2015?
Hiroto: Was that when Ken came to watch and I introduced you to each other?
Oh, that was something Ken also talked about in a previous edition, but you happened to in the bathroom, and you were saying "I heard about this from Hiroto", right?
Kei: Yeah. I heard from Hiropon that he would be coming to watch, so I thought "Oh, so he's coming to watch". And so I happened to meet him in the bathroom (laughs). That was at the end of 2015, on New Years' Eve.
And then the following year was when BAROQUE and A9 actually started to play together for real, at "PARTY ZOO". So to summarize, did Hiroto connect Ken and Kei?
Hiroto: It felt like Ken wasn't meeting anyone for the longest time. But Ken was quite open with me, he looked like he enjoyed my company, and since at the time, Ken had taught me a lot about a variety of things, I wanted to introduce to him someone important to me. Simply put, I wanted someone important to me to meet another person important to me. I heard that Ken would be coming to "Tokyo Chaos", so I thought "I'll introduce them here!".
Kei: Thinking about it now, the same goes for the guitarist meeting, but since we are connecting with feelings of liking the guitar or liking music, I was sure that he got along really well with Ken. Or rather, he has this gravitational pull. I think there is a connection between them.
Hiroto: That was the period where there were all these events that couldn't make you think otherwise.
Kei: From around that time, the people in Japan who had a similar kind of awareness started to come together. That's how it was.
So the inevitability of coincidence, so to speak.
Kei: That's right. That really is the case. It was the same when we (BAROQUE) became a two member band, and the things around us started to become more pure. Or rather, the number of people around us with which we had a pure relationship with was increasing. That's why many things became more clear compared to when we first met.
Hiroto: That's right.
The people with that kind of pure mind were gravitating toward each other.
Kei: Yeah. We were well aware of each other. Or rather, to an extent, we love each other.
Are there any behind-the-scenes stories from "PARTY ZOO" of 2016? Something that is okay to put in this interview (laughs).
Kei: Hahaha. Regarding "PARTY ZOO", at first, even though it wasn't a two band show, it felt like our bands were competing with each other. Well, the same applies to all other bands on the tour.
Because all the bands were in battle mode.
Hiroto: That's why we had to lay everything bare, or rather, it was like everything was laid bare.
Kei: Because everyone is strong. They all have their own personality and weapons, so if we were to go out there without any weapons, it would be all for nothing.
Hiroto: If we didn't, nothing would happen.
I heard that on the tour, the bands travelled around in a tour bus.
Hiroto: We didn't take the bus. Because we only played at two shows in Tokyo and one in Osaka, and the day before the Osaka show, we played a show in Kobe. So we didn't take the bus.
So there are no new behind-the-scenes stories in particular?
Kei: Well, that's because before that, we were together all the time. We occasionally went to hot springs together (laughs).
Hiroto: About three to four times a week.
Three to four times a week, you say (laughs).
Hiroto: When we had finished playing live shows, we would contact each other and would go to places near Tokyo.
Kei: We did this right after meeting at the guitarist meeting (laughs).
Hiroto: We went about three days after we first met.
Kei: Of course, nothing happened (laughs). We were just talking, while virtually completely naked, at the hot springs. Or rather, when you're sitting naked in an outdoor bath, it's quite easy to talk frankly.
Hiroto: Yeah, that was a big part of it.
Kei: We also went to Kyoto together. Two guys on a trip (laughs).
Hiroto: And we stayed at a guesthouse too.
Kei: We stayed overnight at a Japanese inn.
Hiroto: Without having made any lodging arrangements in particular, we just went with the flow, like "Let's go to Kyoto". So when we wondered what to do about a place to sleep, we looked for a place there on the spot. It was like a school trip, where we had futons laid out on the floor.
Kei: That's how we slept. It was weird (laughs).
Hiroto: It was (laughs).
Kei: And at night, we would go drinking at rock bars. So I'm sure we definitely went somewhere if it was music-related or art-related. Oh, I remembered something! It was at Kyoto where we did that training thing right? At the temple?
Hiroto: Zen meditation! Right, that's when we did it!
You even did these spiritual things!
Kei: We were like "Are you interested in Zen meditation? It might be useful for doing music", so we went for the Zen training experience.
Hiroto: We did, we did. For about an hour.
Kei: So after we did the Zen training, we started to talk about concentration and how to be during lives.
Hiroto: We were super serious. Like about how can we express our sounds more, or if it would be better if we could draw out the scenery rather than playing the guitar with an empty feeling. That's all we talked about (laughs).
So on the contrary, do you not talk about trivial things?
Hiroto: We rarely do.
Kei: Yeah.
So not really then.
Hiroto: Not really. When we go to a ramen place, in the end, we end up going from talking about the ramen to talking about music.
Kei: That happens (laughs).
Hiroto: Other people watching us might think it's gross (laughs). Like "What kind of things are those two guys talking about?".
Earlier, Kei said that you were "like family", but maybe you guys are like long lost brothers, or you guys might even be the same person (laughs).
Kei: Ahahahaha!
Hiroto: That would be funny (laughs).
In a parallel world. I always thought that you two were a little similar in your aura or feeling about you.
Kei: Oh, well there are people who say we are nothing like each other, and people who say that we are like each other.
Although your playing style is completely different, I get the feeling that the tone of your aura is really similar.
Kei: But doesn't the issue of you as a human play a big part in that? In the end, aren't we connected as people? I don't think it's a matter of what you are like on the surface.
Hiroto: For example, we often talk about the reason for liking a guitarist in the first place is because our human nature is similar. I don't know if it has anything to do with the shape of your DNA strands or something, but because from the start, we are similar, we make these kinds of sounds, and we react to that. Since the way we see colour or the way we hear sounds is similar from the start, in that manner, we get pulled toward each other, and we gravitate toward each other.
Kei: That's why we tug at each others' heartstrings.
You even talk about things on a DNA level (laughs).
Hiroto: We do (laughs).
That's really profound (laughs). How do you evaluate each others' current guitar playing style?
Kei: I think that when we met in 2012, our on-stage style was perfectly in sync. In terms of character and performance. Although I think we had originality there, in terms of sound, we are still probably in the development stage. The same applies to now, but at the time, we had a variety of influences, and I get the feeling that it used to be easier to tell who the inspiration for this particular phrase was. Now, we've gotten a little distant. Although I think that just like we became closer, in the pursuit of sound, there have been some parts of us that were similar, but I think I have my own sound, and Hiropon has his own sound.
Hiroto: I really thought that when we did the two band show "Singularity". I think that over the last few years, our sound got really distant.
Kei: We have. Our sound is completely different.
Hiroto: Kei's recent sound is, as expected, becoming clearer and clearer. It's not as though it's more of a Western-style, but it's kind of warm and cold...... Maybe not quite like an aurora.
I really get what you mean when you say "aurora".
Hiroto: The way he looks and the way you interpret the sounds are warm, but in terms of temperature, it's cold. That's the impression I have.
Kei: This isn't about sound, but what I think he has that I don't is that wild feeling. Hiropon has that.
He is certainly wild. So about that two band show you mentioned earlier, what kind of scenes remain in your mind? During the encore, Hiroto was so overcome with emotion that he cried during the encure (laughs).
Hiroto: Yeah, I did (laughs).
Kei: With the two band show itself, we had talked about it many times doing it three years before we actually did it. But there were times where we felt that it was still too early to do it, and there were also times where our schedules didn't match, so we couldn't do the show. So it was a coincidence. That there was a time where we could do the show.
So you were able to do the show after five years. So in a way, it was a two band show that you wanted to do at all costs.
Kei: That's right. The fans never knew about it, but from about 2012, the relationship between Hiropon and myself got deeper. Show and Ryo also started to see each other, and we were able to learn many things about each others' bands. To an extent, because there was A9, a part of us is like the way we are now, and that fact has spread down to the fans, and the fans understand that about us. I felt that kind of love at the show. That fact was only first seen and felt when we played on the same stage, so it was really emotionally moving. It was the first time that the people watching could know that we were influenced by each other in a variety of ways.
Hiroto: I just seem like "that person who cried" (laughs). At the time, I had remembered our relationship up until that point, and above all, I think that that space, the entire venue, including our fans, and including the bands, was really full of this really happy aura. After finishing our act, during the encore, in a state of having released all my energy, when I looked out at my surroundings from on stage, I thought, "What is this feeling in the air?!". The mood really does change with music, and looking at the fans the seven of us on stage, I felt that music can really make people happy. That was why I cried. And I really think the two songs we played together, "Nutty a hermit." and "the beautiful name", was really good.
Kei: After it ended, Saga even said that that was the best "the beautiful name" they played. That left an impression on me.
Hiroto: Playing the guitar beside him was somehow like a world not known to me. Even though it's a song we've played tens or hundreds of times.
Five years since meeting in 2012, which could be called fate or inevitable, you might have seen the real light there.
Hiroto: It took quite some time.
But to put it differently, you might be able to say that it only took five years to see that light.
Hiroto: Yeah. I really think that it was a good thing we did it last year. Although I don't know what things will be like in future, I think that we will definitely be connected again in time.
Kei: Even though there were many things going on with BAROQUE, and there were many times when my heart was broken and I had wanted to quit (laughs). I don't mean to glorify things, but don't you think to do this because you have fans, and you have a sense of obligation? Even though it would be easy to quit here, I think that in the end, I wouldn't be doing this if there were no fans. We are not required to do this, and it is not necessary for us to persist. But at those times, I think that the reason you can persist is because you have support from your friends. What made me the happiest was being able to show that.
That's a nice story.
Kei: But I am lucky, being over 20 and to be able to have a relationship as close as this, where you can talk about anything to them. Don't you not really have these kinds of friends when you become an adult? That's why I'm really happy.
Hiroto: I think that I always wanted a friend where we have this kind of relationship. Like it would be nice if I could have this kind of lifetime friend. I read a lot of novels and watch a lot of movies, and in those stories, isn't there often that kind of character? I feel like Kei is that kind of person.
Kei: I'm not trying to flatter him when I say that he really is like family. So for example, A9's successes are also my successes.
Although it might be weird to talk about, since you are so close, do you not ever think about forming your own band together?
Hiroto: I don't think so.
Kei: If we weren't together all the time, then maybe he would be that kind of person, for example, like a member. But after all, and the way I say this might sound bad, but aren't members also business partners? So I think that there is a certain level of distance you must keep between each other. So that's why I think we are close because we're not in the same band.
I see. In that respect, I'm not talking about you two going to hot springs together, but in your relationship, there is a certain line that it won't cross?
Hiroto: Hahaha!
Kei: But personally, like I said before, since he is a lifetime friend, the same goes for me, and the same goes for Hiropon, but we are partners that make us want to enjoy our lives together. Human relations aren't like mirrors, but just as we can't exist if the earth doesn't exist, I think that when a person you are on good terms with isn't doing well, you could be a part of the reason why. Other people's happiness is also your own happiness. That's how I think.
Hiroto: I definitely want to help him if he ever has any hardships or is struggling. Once, when we were chatting while walking around a park at night, there was a time when I almost got run over by a car.
Kei: There was (laughs).
Hiroto: A car was driving along a narrow road at a real crazy speed. I was walking on the side closer to the road, and when I was like "Huh, something's not right", Kei grabbed my arm and pulled me to safety. The car didn't even both braking and just kept driving.
He might have saved your life!
Kei: Rather than thinking about that, what about the fact that two guys were together in a park at night (laughs)?
Hiroto: Like "What are those two guys doing?". It's so shady (laughs).
Hahaha! No, there is no doubt that the two of you are lifetime friends.
Kei: Saying this will make the scale of it larger, or rather, ambiguous, but I think that we need to live three times longer, but there is a limit, right? I really hope that he can do everything that he wants to do in this world. I want to as well, and I live with that intention. So I will do anything that I can. I want Hiropon to do everything that he wants to in this world without any regrets.
Oh! What is your response to that, Hiroto?
Hiroto: I just want him to live. To be honest, as long as he is alive, I will help him if something comes up. I think that going forward, there will definitely be many interesting things. I think that we will feel that feeling we got when we first met many times over. So I just ask that he lives happily. And I will stay by his side.
At the final of the tour called "A9 LAST ONEMAN" at Hibiya Open Air Concert Hall on August 10, they announced that their band name would go back from "A9" to their name at debut, "alicenine.". Although the way we say their name has gone back from "A Nine" to "alice nine", why did they choose not "Alice Nine", but the katakana + kanji mix of "alicenine.", which once felt out of place to them? Junior bandman RYO:SUKE (WING WORKS) gets to the heart of the matter with the vocalist Show, who is responsible for the band's vision.
It has been a while, Show. Why did you name me, one of your junior musicians, to do this interview, which comes at such an important time?
Show: It has been a while. To me, you're one of my juniors that can speak logically. I suggested the idea, thinking that we would be able to deliver something interesting for the readers if a person such as yourself did the interview. I am really glad we were able to do this, thanks to the kindness of the editors.
I am really honoured. Thank you. Let's get straight into it. I was really surprised that you changed the band name back to "alicenine.". Frankly, why did you decide to do that at this point in time?
Show: Right from the start after we went independent, we almost got into trouble operating under the name "Alice Nine" without permission from our previous company. That was, of course, not our intention. We wanted to do our activities after having gone through the proper channels with our previous company. So we had no choice but to change our band name to do activities, and so we changed it to "A9". Since we changed the stylisation and even the way the name was pronounced, when people would call us this new name, there was this hesitant feeling. Even after 3 - 4 years, that feeling was still there.
Is that so?
Show: Of course, the fans accepted the name "A9". However, we did activities feeling bad for the fans, that they were in a situation where they wanted to call us the name they were used to, but couldn't. Some time after that, with the cooperation of many people, there was talks among ourselves of operating under the "alice nine" once again. So we decided to use this name again.
I was very surprised, and at the same time glad, that not only that, but the stylisation returned to the original "alicenine.".
Show: That's more interesting, right? Back then, we started to feel dislike at the fact that that stylisation made us stand out from others. When this band started from the lowest of the low in this scene, we gave it a name focusing on making it look as eccentric as possible and setting ourselves apart as much as possible when compared to other bands. However, 2 years after forming the band, we signed a contract with a major label and were able to land on the front covers of normal magazines. As a matter of course, won't your make up become more natural and your styling become more casual? So we felt that the band stylisation "alicenine." was very out of place, and changed it to "Alice Nine". At the time, the background to changing our band name was different from this time.
Meaning this time, that from the beginning, you decided to change the band name not to "Alice Nine", but "alicenine."?
Show: That's right. Although it's a name we gave the band 15 years ago, I feel like the times have finally caught up with this name. Over the last few years, no matter the genre, there has been a real increase in the number of bands that have a strong impact in terms of band name stylisation, but before anyone else, we had a history of attracting attention from people, who say, "How do you read that band name?". The same goes for the band you were in, "Lolita23q" (laughs).
That's right. Of course, that band name was also heavily inspired by "alicenine.". Even so, I bet the fans, particularly the ones that have been supporting you from the start, must be very happy.
Show: Yeah, rather than going halfheartedly with "Alice Nine", we thought that it would be easier for the fans to understand the meaning behind this name change if we went back to this stylisation. As there are many fans who accepted and supported our activities as "A9", after careful consideration of what form would make the most sense, we decided on "alicenine.", and here we are.
That said, I think that as you had done activities as "A9" for 5 years since leaving your previous company, people must have gotten used to it. Personally, the name "A9" doesn't feel out of place to me at all.
Show: In the band's 15 year history, we did our activities in cleanly divided eras; with 5 years as "alicenine.", 5 years as "Alice Nine", and 5 years as "A9".
Oh! I see!
Show: It wasn't planned at all, but before we knew it, it ended up like being different eras of dinosaurs, like the "Jurassic period" and "Cretaceous period" (laughs). Since we changed our band name back on the assumption that there were people who felt familiar with "A9", we understand that we ourselves need to have the determination to do this.
Hearing you say that, it means that you felt it necessary to change your name back from "A9", which you had used for 5 years. When doing activities, don't bands have times where something is like mysterious fate? Things like an important venue to you happens to be available on an important date, even though you don't intend it?
Show: There is that, but I also think that a band can't continue if there are no obstacles that they are supposed to overcome. I think it would be impossible to continue for 10 years without having any sort of obstacles. Because I think that with the momentum from overcoming an obstacle, you have a run-up to your next 5 years.
Do you have this awareness of trying to create your own hardships by changing your band name back?
Show: No. It might be more accurate to say it feels that all we are doing is what we're supposed to do. To be honest, the Visual-kei scene is in an ice age, and I think that it's a miracle that magazines like "ROCK AND READ" can continue to exist. Also, lately, I have been very busy, so busy to the point that I can't help but be annoyed that I have to do an interview for a magazine today (laughs). But I really have a lot of respect for the chief editor of "ROCK AND READ", in that they are playing a role in communicating the charms of this scene. That is why when I got the offer, I was able to say yes to doing this interview. I think that it's because this magazine has "aesthetics".
"Aesthetics"?
Show: In this age, where a DJ can fire up a large crowd with just a single mp3 track, bands, who do their activities while carrying around heavy instruments and equipment, are really inefficient. But as long as there are people who say "Even so, we are a band" and "Even so, I like bands", in terms of the manner of how to respond to such people, I think there is no choice but to persist with "aesthetics". Even the degree of influence that mass media has has changed, and I'll say it again: I am so busy that I actually think that accepting interview requests from the media is a stupid thing. But even so, I would like to accept the requests from media that I feel thankful for for covering us, and I strongly feel that I would like to be someone who persists with my own aesthetic. Precisely because bands and Visual-kei itself is no longer popular, by changing our name back to "alicenine.", I would like to once again appeal to the world about the coolness of this kind of persistence.
"Aesthetics" is a really good term. If you were to describe with words what exactly your "aesthetic" is, what would it be?
Show: To phrase my aesthetic in terms of kabuki, it would be "to make a grandiose gesture". Although I won't do something that I truly think is lame, if it is something that will make the people supporting us happy, then I will do anything; even if I have to drink muddy water, even if I lose face, even if people laugh at me. I think that it is painfully lame to put on airs only for your own benefit, but if it is to make the people supporting me happy, then I will desperately put on airs. That is my aesthetic.
I see.
Show: I only speak about it from this point of view because my main job is the artwork, vision, and management of the band, but I definitely do not reference other Visual-kei bands. What my aesthetic is is in the upper echelons of art, for example, top fashion brands; the part that is at the cutting edge of the times. I think that you show sincerity to those who support you by digesting such elements and then reforming them as art.
I think that's what the Paris Collection is.
Show: Yeah. To simply bring that into Visual-kei is the same as buying a product from a $1 shop and only changing the label and selling it for $1.20. That is betraying the people who support you, so I definitely will never do that. I agree with what MUCC's Tatsuro said in a previous issue of "ROCK AND READ", that "all bands that do uncool things should disband". I feel that perhaps aesthetic is to always wonder to oneself what the most correct thing to do is when creating a piece of work.
At first, I had always thought that you were an businessman-like artist, but after watching you over these last few years, I feel like you are someone who has a oddly unique balance between the business aspect and the art aspect.
Show: When it comes to the business aspect, ever since when we were in our previous company, I always wondered "Why do people suck at their jobs so badly?". Although I have met people who are really good at doing business, like the president of our previous company and the people that lent us a hand after we went independent, there are only a handful of people that truly understand the nature of business, and it has only been 2 years since I was able to understand business as well.
Surely, the way I saw you started to change from around then too.
Show: I think that before then, all it was was me desperately sinking my teeth into the "Neo Visual-kei" movement and being able to secure a position for myself. All it was was me riding the trends by doing things recklessly.
Does that mean that you don't think you were the trailblazers of the time?
Show: We weren't. The band that set the trend at the time was Baroque (currently active as BAROQUE). Baroque were the ones who "invented" the fact that you could still be Visual-kei even without make-up during an era that was teeming with flashiness, and the generation after us definitely must not forget to respect that. And that caught on overseas, and bands from the 90s, like X JAPAN and LUNA SEA, were well-received once again in the 00s. Of course, a big part of that is because our seniors were the founders of Visual-kei, and in addition to that, Baroque's reinvention in the 00s spread overseas, and Visual-kei was once again well-received as a part of Japanese culture. That's why I keep on saying that what Baroque did was amazing.
I see. I think that is a very accurate analysis.
Show: So all I did was desperately ride the waves of that movement that was born then and secured a position. Then, it was when we went independent that I realised the joy of having people who support you. They really are like family. They buy tickets and make the time to come and see us at our live shows, and I have nothing but gratitude. If they are going to be happy when a band sets aside their instruments to dance, then I feel like I'll do anything and everything, like dance practice.
That is wonderful determination.
Show: Because there are many people who dedicated their youth to the Neo Visual-kei movement that we ran with. I believe that only we can make those people happy. It's impossible for us to tell those people who have been supporting us since the beginning "Please forget about clean and fresh bands and fall in love with J-Pop or hip-hop instead". That is why they still come to our live shows. That is why going on as a band is an obligation. And that's what leads me back to saying that in order to keep this going, I don't mind drinking muddy water.
But with the history that alicenine. = Alice Nine = A9 and the relationship you have with the fans that you have met, I think that you have been able to continue activities in order to make people happy, even without having to drink muddy water.
Show: It is certainly true that there is an easy method to have people who were fans of bands in the 90s to come to your live show without hesitation just by being active as a Visual-kei band now. Doing that is like making a frontal assault, and that is yet another correct method. The way to approach the current scene is a business model where of the tens of thousands of people that like Visual-kei, you get a certain percentage of those people to come see your live shows to make a living.
That is exactly right.
Show: But ever since back then, we've always had more of a punk band spirit, or rather, this need to "break the format". You can see that when we set aside our instruments and dance, or like last year, when we incorporated 2.5D play-like elements into our live show. Although the tour we did in Summer for our best of album is pretty standard for a band, since it was a tour we did after having taken on such challenges, I feel that both the band and the fans are growing. I want people to think of the expression "to drink muddy water" as expressing the mentality of searching to see if there is something that is even more interesting, even if it means getting down on the ground on your hands and knees.
What is the driving force behind that? You're an intelligent person, have proven to be able to ride the trends of the time, have band members with high potential, and have many fans. Why would such a person as yourself continue to take on these challenges and even throw away the easy route?
Show: Since it's not as though I do this because I want to show myself off, to be clear, I don't aim for 10; it's either 0 or 100. If I imitate the format that the amazing bands of the 90s did, then I can aim for 10, but I definitely won't be able to aim for 100. Now, the only band that can compete on equal footing with our seniors from that era is Golden Bomber, because they had made a new "invention". Though it seems like a waste since Baroque stopped activities when they were at their peak, I think that that in itself is cool.
I see. It's either 0 or 100.
Show: To go even further, to speak of something I personally regret, when we had the experience of playing at a large venue overseas in 2007, when Visual-kei was at its peak overseas, even though it was right before our eyes, we weren't serious about the show. Right after that, K-Pop had taken the world by storm, and the cultural power landscape in the Asia region changed in one fell swoop. That was something that I painfully felt when we played at Singapore a few years after that. The regret of not taking on challenges in the past is with me today.
So that's how it was.
Show: I feel that it is much better to take on a challenge and fail than to not take on challenges at all. It is not my intention whatsoever to act self-important and say, "I always work harder than everyone else!". I just hate not taking on the challenge and regretting it later.
And this way of thinking was only possible because you have come to understand business, and because you took on the new challenge of doing activities as an independent band.
Show: Business cannot be understood if you don't understand the entire network of operations, marketing, management, politics, law, and finance. That's what I know. I think every waking minute was spent on studying business.
How did you study?
Show: With books. At first, I read books written by Japanese businessmen, but recently, it's been insufficient, so I've started to read mainly books written by American economists. I also get the latest information on business from Twitter. Apart from the several tweets I make a day and reading those replies, I only read information on business. I want to tell bandmen to read books. Myself included, I think it would be better to be aware of the fact that we are still in a primitive world.
This is something that I want to ask you precisely because I think you are a person that, in the middle of the movement of the 00s, came out of nowhere and stood out from the rest, and on top of that, is able to flexibly handle the changes of the times. Do you have any advice for the younger generation of artists that are currently battling in this scene?
Show: Right. Since advancement of the internet, the mechanism where information flowed in one direction from those people called "celebrities" to those people called "ordinary people" has completely disappeared. I want to tell them that when you understand the current world in this way, there are only two types of artists that are of any value to consumers.
And those two types are?
Show: Whether they are "convenient or not" and whether they "have meaning or not". To compare it to cars, there are only the two choices; one is pursuing "convenience", like a Toyota Prius that has good maneuverability, or pursuing "meaning", like a Tesla that is an environmentally friendly electric car. In other words, it has changed to whether or not artists can offer something that is necessary in a consumer's lifestyle, such as something they want to listen to to hype them up when they go for a run, or something they want to listen to to calm down before going to bed. I don't know how many people realise this, though.
So that is the context when you say "convenience".
Show: Yeah. In an era where you are questioned on what kind of manner you make something that fits into the lives of the listener, we have already been plunged deep into that. Conventional Visual-kei has a business model where people who like artists that wear make-up will come to live shows. However, I think that it is only natural that that sort of thing is disappearing.
What about whether they "have meaning or not"?
Show: That would be the "aesthetics" that I mentioned earlier. It's about whether or not the listener empathises with the artist, even though the genre is not popular and the artist isn't famous, and feels their life has meaning to it when they support such an artist. Meaning it's about whether or not you are persistent with your aesthetic to create something that people feel has meaning, and for as many people as possible. That is whether an artist "has meaning or not".
I really get what you are saying.
Show: To dig even deeper from a business point of view, there are the terms "problem resolution" and "reproducibility". If even one of the two is missing, then your thing is no longer needed by people.
If "problem resolution" is being able to offer "music that people want to listen to to hype them up when they go for a run" or "music that people want to listen to to calm down before going to bed", then what is "reproducibility"?
Show: For example, with YouTube videos that have a lot of views, it is not just information that the listener is passively receiving; it is content that can be reproduced in the viewers' lives. Something like "When I give speeches, I can talk in front of people without getting nervous" or "With these ingredients, I can make food at home that is like what you see at restaurants". Watching that kind of content is for your own benefit, right? That makes is reproducible.
Now that you mention it, that is certainly true.
Show: A Visual-kei band is content that is very difficult for the consumer to reproduce. Although when the consumer goes to a live show and headbangs because they are told to might just be to fulfill their need for recognition, at the end of the day, it is only unidirectional supply and demand, and you can only increase customer satisfaction on a small scale. Just like I said before, the boundary between a celebrity and an ordinary person probably doesn't even exist anymore, and it's an era where we're all equals. I want to tell people that they should understand this fact.
I see.
Show: What I'm going to say next applies to all of society from here on, but if we're to focus only on the Visual-kei market, right now, we are at rock bottom, so if you are going to keep on doing the same thing, then you'd best be persistent about it.
So that's the way you think about it.
Show: To put it in other terms, I think that there's only one way, and that's up, and that could be in 5 years' time or 10 years' time. I really think that we're in an amazing place right now.
But aren't Visual-kei fans also hearing sad news, like CD shops closing one after the other? What is your stance on that? Of course, there are many artists that are calling on for people to buy more CDs.
Show: That is just plain stupid. Don't you think it's like telling people to eat a Belgian waffle?
A Belgian waffle?
Show: Belgian waffles used to be popular in the past. [Telling people to buy more CDs] It's just as stupid as saying "Hey, quit drinking pearl milk tea1! If you don't start eating Belgian waffles, it's going to disappear! All the Belgian waffle stores are going to close!". It's not popular any more, and you have to accept that. People surely must have realised a long time ago that it would be impossible for a "Visual-kei CD shop" to exist. On the contrary, I think that the customers who continued to buy CDs to support the existence of such shops are really cool.
Earlier you mentioned an "obligation to fans". Going forward, what do you think artists should do for the people who love this scene?
Show: I merely have this feeling that I'm obligated to not let Japanese culture go extinct around the world. Just like I said before, "Visual-kei" is a format that YOSHIKI and HIDE "invented", and now, as it were, all we are doing is selling a watered-down version of that, so I don't think of it as something that needs to be kept on going at all cost. However, I don't want people to misunderstand me; I think that the that essence of the art form where there are people who are happy when men in genderless make-up play dazzling music should be kept going.
I understand. At a glance, that difference may appear similar, but they are two separate things.
Show: So there is absolutely no need for everyone to worry about whether Visual-kei will keep on going or not. There will be a time when people will stop drinking pearl milk tea. That's how it is. I can't help but think that it would be lame for us to try and protect it because we had a bit of a taste of success and have vested interests. Rather than that, I think it would be best to concentrate on the happiness of the people that listen to your music.
I went to see alicenine.'s first solo show at Shibuya AX. At the time, Shibuya AX was a place that bandmen first dreamed of playing at.
Show: That brings back memories. It was the gates to success for our generation.
I will never forget when you said on stage during the encore, "Dreams do come true!".
Show: Oh, really? I don't remember (laughs).
That's why there is something that I wanted to ask you no matter what today. What are your "dreams" now?
Show: Right. Now that I'm older, I do really think that in the end, you are held captive to and cannot escape from the things that you wanted when you were in your teens. So from that point of view, I want to be a person that be of use to someone in a form other than music and bands.
That's a typical answer from you.
Show: I am just an ordinary person, after all; I was a kid with no friends, I wasn't popular, and wasn't cheerful. So then how do you run a band, and how do you come to run a company? By communicating that methodology and scheme, I think that perhaps I can be of use to someone.
That is amazing.
Show: I've been thinking this lately. Although we see in the news that reclusive adults are committing violent crimes, I might have become such a person had I not encountered music. Or rather, it's not a matter completely unrelated to me. I want to be someone's strength in some kind of way. If there are some of our fans out there who want their husbands or boyfriends to be sharper, I believe that now, I can communicate that to those men.
Although it's a specific example, it seems like you could write a book about it.
Show: Right. It's my dream to be able to create such output, or rather, I want to be of use to even more people. Since Visual-kei bands are not reproducible in the lives of the listeners, in that respect, I've not really been able to directly become someone's strength. In terms of contributing to the happiness of the people who devoted their youth to Neo Visual-kei, it's only because I can be their strength that people come to see our live shows, and I think that I can be of use to them. It's only obvious that bands who appeared after the boom had passed will have a rough time, but because I think they are all wonderful bands, at this rate, it's painful, or rather, it's saddening. All the young bands are really amazing, too.
That's something that we all feel.
Show: If technology advances, people may be able to make a living by uploading music from a country with cheaper costs of living than Japan, but now, the only business model available is to communicate your music from around the Tokyo area, go on tour, and have people buy merchandise in order to make a living, right? I want to be able to resolve that kind of problem too. I think that doing such things going forward is the mission that I have been given.
I am really looking forward to the future of alicenine.
Show: Right. This is something I should have talked about in the very beginning, but by going back to this stylisation, a huge part of me feels proud to be a part of Japanese culture. Right now, the music people are listening to in the Asia region is only K-Pop, and I think that perhaps the Japanese culture that can compete with that is X JAPAN, LUNA SEA, L'Arc~en~Ciel, DIR EN GREY, and MIYAVI. There is also this sense of danger with the problem that the low birthrate and aging population will keep on getting worse in Japan, so I think that going forward, Japanese artists will have to go out into the world. I want to be a rock band that puts the fact that we are Japanese and the fact that we are oriental out in the forefront.
I hope we can hear your new song soon.
Show: Our first single as (the new) alicenine., "Kakumei Kaika - Revolutionary Blooming-", will be released on October 2nd2. We're finally doing the kind of interviews musicians do (laughs). I hope people feel our dignity as a part of Japanese culture, more so than Visual-kei artists.
Dignity, you say. That is another good word.
Show: Since we are communicating to the entire world, I think I'll try to be more particular about using Japanese in the lyrics. I mean, no matter the country, K-Pop competes on the world stage using hangul and the Korean language, right?
The Korean language has strong consonants, and people say that the advantage it has when competing on the world stage is that it is compatible with Western music.
Show: On the other hand, as Japanese is a language that has a dominant component of vowels and pauses, in order to compete on the world stage, it's becoming more important to find a method of singing where it sounds like you are singing in English. I think that going forward, Japanese artists will need to be more active in that sort of information exchange. Even if you were to sing the same language as they do overseas, that will probably take about at least 10 years to become proficient. So if that's the case, I think that you will have a chance at winning by putting the culture of your own language out in the forefront. Going forward, no matter what, we will be even more persistent with our "aesthetic" as alicenine.
1 At the time of the interview, pearl milk tea was incredibly popular in Japan.
2 The release date given on the official site/Twitter is October 23rd.
Despite being rushed to the hospital last November due to a heart attack, he made his recovery at incredible speed. Now, as if nothing had even happened at all, Tora is energetically carrying out activities for A9's tumultuous 15 year anniversary. Although in the previous issue, Hiroto had reported on Tora's condition, we asked the man himself about the sequence of events and his current condition. "Nothing has changed. I only just lost a little weight". Not even changing a little, the blunt but charming Tora sat down to talk to us.
It seems like today's photoshoot ended earlier than the scheduled time.
Tora: The photoshoot was over in 30 minutes. No matter what you make me do, I'm fast (laughs). The cameraman (Susumu Miyawaki) who did the photoshoot today is someone that I have often worked with, so even before the photos are taken, you can pretty much tell how the photos will turn out if you imagine it.
That said, I hope you will talk to us about many things in the interview. This is our first time meeting since you had a heart attack. First of all, I would like to ask about what your thoughts were, to be suddenly struck with illness, how you processed the illness, and about any mental and physical changes you've had.
Tora: Umm. Nothing has changed (laughs). The heart is actually something that's not understood. You just suddenly get these spasms, and after the event, it's not like there are any traces of if left behind. Even now, it has no effect on my life.
Oh. I'm relieved just hearing that.
Tora: The reason why it happened wasn't because my blood vessels were blocked. But I did have a heart attack. Just looking at the data, like electrocardiograms, I did have a heart attack, but it's not as if my blood vessels are blocked now. It seems like I got a spasm and it was possible that the blood vessels did get blocked, but there were not parts that were blocked. So even though I did have surgery, they didn't do anything like inflate my blood vessels with a balloon. When they inserted a catheter, I didn't have any blocked blood vessels. The results of the diagnosis showed that there were some parts that weren't working well, so that's probably why I got a heart attack. I don't know much about hearts (laughs), but the reason why that happens is apparently something unexpected like stress. Apparently, the cause for it can be stress on the same level as an earthquake.
I'm surprised, since it's so unexpected that you would be under that much stress.
Tora: That's what the doctor told me. They asked me, "Has anything happened in your life lately?". Because it can happen in that way too.
So heavy stress can also cause heart attacks.
Tora: Yeah. So that's why at first, when I was discharged from the hospital, I was careful with what I was eating. When you have a heart attack, there's this thick rulebook that you get at the hospital, and it's really difficult to stick to the rules when you're young. So while being as close to the line as possible, lately, I've come to think that there's no point in me worrying about it so much. If my blood vessels were blocked, then I would have to completely stick by the rules. But I realized that sticking to the rules would put me under a lot of stress.
And the doctor said that cause was probably stress.
Tora: So I'm moderating myself.
What about the alcohol and cigarettes that you love?
Tora: I quit.
Do you move around and exercise?
Tora: At first, I would go for walks, but only at first. I kept doing it for about 2 months and then I got bored (laughs).
What?!
Tora: I bought a treadmill, and I use it quite a lot at home. Because it's a pain in the ass to go outside. Apart from this, the only thing that has changed is that for my meals, I don't eat rice and only eat side dishes.
Has your weight also changed?
Tora: I only just lost a little weight. Because you won't lose a huge amount of weight just by limiting what you eat and walking. Oh right, I'm not supposed to run. The doctor told me to not overwork my heart. After being admitted to the hospital and having surgery, there was rehabilitation. At first, you can't get up from bed normally, because that requires putting strain on your heart. It doesn't make sense, right? After spending a day in rehabilitation, I was finally able to sit up in bed. After completing rehabilitation to be able to sit up in bed, there was rehabilitation on how to stand up. Doing that everyday made me think "This is a pain in the ass".
To work at it slowly so that you don't put any burden on your heart.
Tora: Yeah. After finished that rehabilitation, on the last day, I was finally able to shower. I was able to do this after about a week, but you also can't shower, but it puts a burden on your heart. After getting out of bed, I could only walk about 50 steps or something. Since I had to do rehabilitation from that level, it was a pain in the ass. I even asked "Is it okay to walk now?".
I can kind of imagine that (laughs). What kind of symptoms did you have before being admitted to hospital? According to what we heard from Hiroto, you had 2 attacks.
Tora: That's right. If the first thing I had was diagnosed to be a heart attack, then I had 2. At first, my back really hurt. It was really painful, but I was like "Someone, massage my back". That was the first attack.
Did you get those symptoms during rehearsals before a live on the 2-man tour with vistlip?
Tora: Yeah. Thinking about it now, even before that, there were times where my chest was in pain. In terms of symptoms, I had something similar to esophagitis. Including where it felt like something was stuck in my throat, I think perhaps I've also had attacks many times in the past. Only when I look back, though. But when it actually happened, it was quite painful. When it happened the first time, I even said "Crap, oh crap". It was during rehearsal, and I was writhing about on stage. I felt the pain in my left arm, back, and face, and no matter what I did, my body was in pain. Since getting the symptoms in my back, it's like the pain gets even worse from there. I want to tell people that if at first, if you're just like "My chest feels tight" but then your back starts to hurt, go to the hospital right away. When your back starts to hurt, it's a sign that things are getting bad.
With the first attack, did you just deal with the pain the whole time?
Tora: That's right. The pain got worse and worse, and I was so out of breath to the point I drooling. Since it feels similar to throwing up, people go to the toilet, but there is nothing to throw up. I drank water and threw up, but I didn't feel better afterwards. Up until now, I've gotten plenty of hangovers, and it's kind of similar to the pain you get when you've got a hangover. But it was impossible, since it happened in the evening. Even if I were to have gone drinking the day before, in terms of the time, getting the hangover during the evening on the next day is strange...... That's what I thought as I was dealing with the pain. Then the symptoms calmed down.
That's how it happened?
Tora: Yeah. I felt much more at ease after that.
How did you recover?
Tora: All I did was bear with the pain. It's a battle against time. As I was bearing with it, it was like water passing through me, where the pain suddenly just receded and went away. To the point it would surprise you.
So after the first attack, you were able to play the live show as planned. So nothing happened with your body even after doing the live show?
Tora: That's right. So when the second attack came, since I managed to keep it under control the first time, I bore the pain. With the first attack, after about 15 minutes of dealing with the pain, things calmed down, but with the second time, it took about an hour.
Where did the second attack happen?
Tora: At home. I wondered whether to call an ambulance or not, but I thought I would be fine since things calmed down the first time. The second attack happened at night. The hospitals aren't open at 9p.m., and don't you feel kind of iffy about calling an ambulance to your house? So I didn't call an ambulance. So I dealt with the pain and the attack calmed down, but I ended staying up until morning, so I googled my symptoms.
And when you did that?
Tora: The only thing that fit was a heart attack. That was the only thing, when you have chest pain, feel like throwing up, your back starts hurting, your left arm gets numb, and your teeth hurt. It said that if these symptoms last for 1 hour, it's bad news, so I was like "I guess I'll go to the hospital", and in the morning, I walked to the hospital. When I took an electrocardiogram there, the small hospital put me in an ambulance right away and took me to a large hospital. They told me "You're not supposed to walk or you'll die".
Meaning you were in quite a dangerous situation?
Tora: Yes. When they looked at the electrocardiogram, they said "At this rate, you have a high chance of dying". I was like "For real!?" (laughs). "This is not the time for laughter". When they took my blood pressure, it was 170mmHg. Since the maximum was 180mmHg, the small hospital threatened me, like "We might have to put something in your heart". After they transported me to the bigger hospital, they immediately moved me to the operating table and put a catheter in me. But in the end, my blood vessels weren't blocked. Even at the bigger hospital, they said "Your blood vessels aren't blocked, but it showed up on the electrocardiogram". It was a heart attack, but since my blood vessels weren't blocked, they diagnosed it as a spasm.
What were you thinking at the time?
Tora: I wasn't thinking anything. In any case, having a tube up my urethra really hurt (laughs). That was the first thing they did when they moved me to the operating table, and it hurt like hell and was painful! When I had a catheter, I was confined to my bed for 24 hours. I could only sleep lying on my back, and I wasn't even allowed to drink water. That was more painful for me. Putting aside the illness, the toughest thing was the reality that I had to do this kind of thing. It was a pain in the ass. That was tough.
So what happened after those 24 hours?
Tora: The next day, I was finally about to sit up in bed, and I started doing this rehabilitation to sit up. It took me a week to walk. It was hell, not being able to walk properly for a week.
What did you do when you were stuck in bed at the hospital?
Tora: Since being able to sit up, I played games. I had someone bring me a PlayStation. You can connect it to the monitor in the hospital! The doctors and nurses were shocked I did that. Like "So you can play the PlayStation here" (laughs). That was all I could do. And the hospital I went to was full of old people, like grandpas. Until I was moved there, I was first in the ICU.
For the 24 hours you had a catheter.
Tora: Yes. With the ICU being the ICU, it was full of people with critical conditions who were rushed there, so the nurse said to me "It's crazy that you are in the ICU at this age. You're too young".
The nurse in the ICU spoke to you in a casual manner.
Tora: That's because I did too. Everyone was young, even the doctors. Even one of the doctors used to be in a Visual-kei band. When they asked me if I was in a band and I said yes, they said to me "I also used to be in a Visual-kei band". Some of the nurses even know A9, so what was tough for me was to give people an autograph with a tube shoved up my XXX (laughs).
Then they moved you to the general ward. How did your parents react when you were admitted to hospital? They must have been quite surprised.
Tora: Not really. My family is also casual, so they happily came to the hospital, saying that since I got ill, they were able to spend plenty of time with me.
Did people at the hospital ask you about your tattoos?
Tora: They didn't. At the first hospital I went to, they said to me "Big hospitals aren't used to accepting patients with tattoos, so I don't know how they will react". But since there were many young people at that hospital, they were completely fine with it. Instead, they were like "Wow, tattoos!".
You have tattoos on your upper body as well as your legs. Why did you decide to get a tattoo?
Tora: Because I wanted one.
When did you get your first tattoo?
Tora: I guess when I was around 20 years old. Our previous company was quite strict about it, so when we left the company, I just went for it.
Are you particular about what kind of tattoos to get?
Tora: I'm not. In general, I leave it to the tattoo artist, so I just tell them to tattoo whatever they want.
Is there no tattoo that you got because you wanted it?
Tora: No. Oh, but I wanted to get the tiger stripes (on his leg). I thought tiger stripes would be a little crazy. Don't people not get this kind of tattoo? I wanted to get a tattoo where even people with tattoos would think "That's crazy" or "I can't imitate that". I did think about getting one of a tiger, but I thought to get one of a tiger while doing activities under the name "Tora" is too typical and predictable. With the tattoo on my hand, I'm really close with HAKUEI (PENICILLIN), so when I said to him "Let me get a tattoo that's like yours", he said it was okay. I was like "Really?! Let me take a photo of that then", and took a photo of the butterfly tattoo on his hand. The next day, I went to go get it done. When I sent a photo of the butterfly tattoo on my hand to HAKUEI, he was kind of taken aback (laughs). He was probably half-joking.
You're also casual in the way you get tattoos.
Tora: That's right. I like getting tattoos like Americans or something do, like "This was cute, so I got it tattooed" or "I like the design of this t-shirt, so I'm gonna go get it tattooed". That's how foreigners think. That's how I am too. That's why I have a tattoo of a Disney character on my arm, a matching butterfly one with HAKUEI, and also a striking tiger pattern one on my leg.
Did your parents not say anything to you?
Tora: My parents are still completely against it. They tell me "Don't get any more" and "Just please don't get one on your face" (laughs). So I was like "Fine, I guess I'll leave my face alone".
I see. We've gone a little astray, so let's get back on track. So we heard from Hiroto what it was like from when you were admitted to hospital to when you were discharged. It seems like you were able to finish the rehabilitation in record speed?
Tora: That's right. I directly negotiated with the doctor, saying that I didn't want to be in the hospital for a long period of time. The rule is that rehabilitation is 2 weeks long, but I negotiated to do mine at twice the speed.
Can you even do that?
Tora: I did (laughs). Normally, there's also a period where you have to do rehabilitation back into society. In the rulebook, it says that you return to society after half a year, but even now, I'm working a lot.
Just until recently, you were on the Asia tour.
Tora: I'm doing activities as I normally would.
So the doctor gave you reasonable permission?
Tora: The doctor understood that I'm not a regular person, and I said that I would do it. In response, the doctor didn't say anything, as if they were thinking "That's right, there isn't anyone that can cover for you". But they did say to me "Even on stage, you should try to rest". Because I'm not allowed to do very active sports.
Since you restarted activities during a time when you were not supposed to have returned to society, you must have thought about many things, such as what you would do if you got another heart attack, or it might be too late and you might die.
Tora: Well, I don't really worry about it. Although there are still things that I have left to do, it's not that I think that I don't want to die. Although, you probably won't be able to think about that kind of thing when death is actually staring you in the face. But I am still alive. It's not quite like the timing, but I thought that now was not when my time was up.
Do you mean the timing of when you will die?
Tora: Yeah. And that now wasn't the time. That's why, even if this kind of thing were to happen to my body again, I think I would think of it as just an annoyance. Like "Not now". It was the same thing when I hurt my neck.
Oh. You were on tour then too, and if I remember correctly, you had to cancel some shows.
Tora: That's right. That was much more painful, in terms of the symptoms. The suffering from the hernia was hellish. I never want to it happen again. On top of that, I hate that kind of half-baked thing. Can't anyone get a hernia? But this time, the name of my illness has the biggest impact.
Even though it was an illness, the idea that the impact is important is...
Tora: I'm a bit weird. I've always been weird since I was little. When people grow up, don't they just have this impulse to become an ordinary person? And then they say really, ordinary things. That's where I question them, like "What are you going to achieve, saying such ordinary things?". Getting sick and following the rulebook to change to a healthy lifestyle, to wake up to an ordinary day, and live while taking care of your health. I just get this feeling that that isn't the life for me. I'm not like this.
You live intuitively.
Tora: Yes. It's disgusting to live like that everyday. I think that it's not good to be this ordinary and live healthy and happy life. I think "What are you trying to achieve by trying to create ordinary happiness?". My thoughts themselves are just different from others.
What made you think ordinary = no good when you were a child?
Tora: I don't know. Maybe because I have a really bad personality (laugh)? I don't hate my parents, but I feel that I don't treat my parents in the same way everyone else does. Doesn't everyone have these sentiments that they like their parents? I don't have that.
What do you mean?
Tora: It's not as though I grew up in an unhappy family, but all parents are are "not someone unrelated to you", and in general, I look at them as any other "person". So ever since I was a kid, I would look at what my parents were doing that think "What idiots". I would wonder why they couldn't do something. For example, I would wonder why they would say certain things at certain times, and if they couldn't read the mood. Putting aside whether they are book smart or not, I would think that they were idiots. I would use that aspect of my parents. For example, if I could skillfully use that aspect of my parents, they would give me money. So I'm sort of using my parent. That's how I treat them.
Is your brother like that too?
Tora: My younger brother listened to everything my parents said, so much to the point that until 30 years of age, he was reclusive. My mum is a full-time housewife and my dad has a proper job,so we're the typical Showa-era family. I think that my parents are really old-fashioned.
Even in that household, you were an upbeat child and raised to have different sentiments from "ordinary people".
Tora: That's right. Maybe they raised a strange kid that was different from the parents.
I see. So when you were admitted to hospital and found out the name of your illness, how did the members react?
Tora: Since everyone is a grown up, they had mature responses. Like that it was good that I was still alive, and that we should all be careful. To the members, it's not something that's unrelated to them. Because in general we live similar lifestyles.
When Hiroto came to visit you in the hospital and gave you a present, you even took a photo of it and uploaded it to Twitter, which is rare.
Tora: I think that Hiroto really is a pervert (laughs). I bet he even knew that I would upload the picture to Twitter (laughs).
You don't even view that normally and twist it.
Tora: That's what it seems like to me.
To the Tora with a bad personality.
Tora: Yeah. That's why deep down, I truly can't be happy. Don't get me wrong; I am happy, you know? I am happy, but there is this feeling where I have to make a post about Hiroto being such a nice guy (laughs). Saga tweeted that he was worried about me, but he didn't come visit me. To me, it seems like a farce.
Hiroto was seriously glad that you were open and thanked him. I also heard that Saga, who couldn't go see you because he had to do recording, asked his mother, who is a nurse, about medical knowledge, and of all the members, he researched your illness the most, including your diet after being discharged.
Tora: I know that. But deep inside of me, I thought that he wouldn't come and see me as a grown up. We are in the same band, after all.
You wanted him to at least show his face. You must have been quite sad that Saga didn't come to visit you (laughs). So what were you thinking when you returned to the stage for the first time after recovering?
Tora: I think that no matter what, as long as you're alive, you have a way to express yourself. In general, I want to express myself, and even if it's not on stage, I feel that if nothing else, I have the confidence that I can express myself. If a guy can only express himself on stage, then I think that he would be uncool, even standing on stage. No matter how it plays out, I can express something. That's why my mind is not that of a guitarist. Lately, I've been into videography, and I want to express something with that. That's probably about the only thing I want to do while I'm alive. It's not like I want to work (laughs). In general, don't people want to live only doing the things they like? Because what they like is not their job. I can't do something if I think of it as work.
Have you not ever worked a part-time job?
Tora: I have, but I did it thinking it was a pain in the ass. I don't like doing the same repetitive things.
But don't bands also play the same songs?
Tora: At least for us, we have a lot of arrangements. In that respect, I don't get bored.
To commemorate the band's 15th year anniversary, the best of albums, "Kachou no Shirabe" and "Fuugetsu no Uta", with songs chosen by the members will go on sale on April 24 (interview was done in early March). Is there quite a different arrangement compared to the original songs on the re-recorded songs?
Tora: In terms of the guitars, they're completely different songs. Nothing is the same.
I see. Although songs will change with a different arrangement, what about the members? With Show in particular, you were in a band with him before A9. Even now, apart from A9, you're also in the DIAWOLF unit with him. The two of you have continued to always do music activities together. What do you think of continuing to do music activities with the same members?
Tora: I think that Show can still become much more popular.
I have a memory of you saying the same thing a long time ago when I did an interview with you for the fanclub magazine.
Tora: I still feel the same way. In general, I can't sing. Show is far more superior than me just with the 2 facts that he is cooler than me and that he can sing. It's just something that he was born with. I think that there is no way that a person who is naturally far more superior than me couldn't become more popular. That's how I feel.
Show is a person who should have more of the limelight shone on him as a star from the general public and become more popular.
Tora: Is what I think. I feel bad because it seems like I'm looking down on him while saying it. But if he doesn't become more popular, I think that the reason would be something else [and not something to do with Show]. There's no way I could be wrong (laughs).
You're really confident about it.
Tora: Because I am sure that my way of thinking is not wrong. Won't my life not have any value if I don't think that way? But by insisting that my way of thinking is not wrong, it means I will never do well with girls (laughs). I understand that girls will slowly start to think "This guy is crazy". I mean, I'm not an idiot. The girl would start to think "If I keep dating this guy who says the impossible, I'll never be happy. I just want ordinary happiness".
When they find out that at the root of the way you live and the way you think is the idea that "normal = no good". Do any of the members share your way of thinking?
Tora: I guess none of them do. I don't know.
With such members who don't share this feeling with you, what do you think is the reason that A9 was able to continue on as a band for 15 years?
Tora: That's what I wonder! But A9 have had many life events. Even if it seems like we are doing the same things over and over, I've fallen into poor health, and we also suddenly changed our band name (laughs). Our band has had many troubles. These troubles have become life events for us.
What was the incident that you thought was the worst?
Tora: Uhh, I don't know. I never thought of them as being that serious.
Really? So does that mean at the very least, you never felt any stress while doing music activities?
Tora: It's the opposite; I've had nothing but stress. Every day while living my life. Ever since I was a kid, I've used that stress as motivation for living.
You mean like the pent up feelings you were talking about earlier about your parents, when they make you wonder why they would say certain things at certain times?
Tora: Yeah. It makes me think "Okay, then I'll make sure I won't turn out like them". I find people who have long-winded talks a pain in the ass. Don't those people who like lecturing others want to lecture people on every little detail about why they can't do something?
Oh. That would be stressful.
Tora: To me, that's just a waste of time. Rather than talking about that, wouldn't it be quicker to find something that you can do?
So you're the type who wants to live fast-paced on the shortest route. That's why at the beginning you said that you were fast.
Tora: That's right. I'm fast no matter what I do. I mean, can't you tell just by imagining it? Even so, there are so many in the people in the world who can't do this. The same applies to games, but it's more fun when something is bothersome and you can't clear it. Because you want to keep doing it until you can clear it. I do think that a band is also a game that you can keep playing until you clear it.
When do you "clear" a band?
Tora: I guess that would be when you think that there is nothing more left to do with this band. Whether or not the current A9 is at the maximum level, I think that we still aren't. I do think that we've gone passed level 50, but we can still level up, and I feel that we've still not reached the final boss. So that's why I think perhaps this band can still keep on fighting going forward. I want to keep on going until we've reach the maximum level and I can think that we've "cleared" the band. I think that this is a band where the time I can think that we've "cleared" will come. Rather than being able to continue and dragging it on forever, because I think that this a band where we definitely will be able to see the moment where we've "cleared" the band, I will keep going until that point. As long as I'm still alive.
On May 27, Saga uploaded a music video to Twitter without warning. It was the "Yukue Shirezu" music video for VOLLAND GUMP, his solo project which he had worked on, without revealing that it was him, while activities as a band had stopped. "Everything is connected". Saga, who says that they found the ideal way for the band to be through leaving the management company they belonged to for many years, re-starting activities as A9, and "IDEAL", the album that was released after having gone back to their roots. He talks about the "now" of A9, who are dashing towards their 13th year anniversary, and his rock and carefree solo work.
So it seems like for this photoshoot, upon your request, you were wrapped in bandages.
Saga: Yes, because to date, I've done quite a lot of things. Won't people not take a look at my section if there isn't anything to make them go "Huh?!". So even though it might be late, I thought to wrap myself in bandages. It's my first time wearing bandages.
Are the bandages wrapped over your naked body?
Saga: I'm not wearing anything on my upper half. Please relax, I am wearing something on my lower half.
(laughs). Even though you just celebrated your birthday (Interview was done in late June), you are still doing this sort of thing (laughs).
Saga: That's right. Even with my birthday, for several years now, I didn't feel happy celebrating it. But for some reason, I felt glad this year. I felt blissful.
Your birthday this year was celebrated with a live show in your hometown, right?
Saga: Yes. This year, I celebrated it in the place I was born. As expected, it was different. The mood. We arrived the day before, and on that night, the members threw a birthday party for me in Kooriyama. For me, that is where my birthday live started.
Does A9 always hold birthday parties?
Saga: For a long time now, we've always done something. Honestly, on that day, I had to do pre-production for a coupling song on the new single. So at the hotel, when I had turned on my computer and was getting ready to work, all of a sudden, they called me out, saying "Let's go out for a drink now!". I said that I'll go meet them in 20 minutes. While thinking "Is it okay to not do the pre-production?", they took me to a Japanese bar. The boss of Kooriyama Hip Shot and even the lighting staff was there, so that's when my feelings had changed, and I thought that it was a good thing I came. I had fun drinking that night.
Did you get any presents from the members?
Saga: I did. I got an Apple TV.
Do you give presents to each other every year?
Saga: If we don't forget. I think a good thing (about A9) is that we properly do this sort of thing. If I were the leader, we definitely wouldn't be doing these things (laughs). Immediately, I would be like "This is a pain in the ass", and distance the members even more. I think a good thing about A9 is that the members are close.
If you were the leader of a band, it wouldn't be like this.
Saga: I don't think it would. I'm AB-type1, so I have my own territory. There's a line that I don't cross. But after 13 years, that line has been infringed upon...... Like having my parent's home exposed.
Huh? What do you mean by that?! Isn't that infringing on you too much?
Saga: It is. On Nico Nico, we used to do a show called "Alice9 Channel". On that show, without me knowing it, they exposed my parent's house. When I saw the footage, he laid on my mum's lap (laughs). And he also took a bath there. He laid on my mum's lap, took a bath, and ate pizza.
He really infringed upon your territory.
Saga: Yes. That's why I got my revenge. I secretly went to Tora's parent's house. I ate the curry that Tora's mum made. Ever since doing that kind of thing, it's been impossible to say things like "This is my territory in the band, so don't come here".
So perhaps you think it is what it is, because they're your fellow members now?
Saga: Perhaps I think it is what it is because since my 20s, I've been running forward with them and spent emotional times together with them. I think that it a big part of it. Also, A9 falls on hard times at just the right moments. Oddly enough, when that kind of thing happens, it's not a time for us where we start fighting. The moments where things won't work out if we don't work hard together comes upon us time and time again. That's why we all get along well. Or rather, we are in unity.
So you fall on tough times at just the right moment.
Saga: That's right. In general, it happens every two years. Bothersome things or big incidents.
So what would be the real strength of A9, who can overcome these difficulties each and every time?
Saga: It would be because we are blessed. I can only think that we have good luck. When we are at times when it really seems like too much, there is always someone there to save us.
Do you mean that someone like a saviour appears?
Saga: Yes. To be honest, we would definitely have not been able to overcome these difficulties just with our own strength. At each every one of those times, there is someone there supporting us. Sometimes us members even talk about it, that we have good luck. That's why when the difficulties have passed, I can think of it as a good thing. I think that including all the tough times we've had up until now, it is all connected for us to be here now. When things don't go well, we can learn from it and grow. Even as a person, I'm not quite sure why, but I feel like I've gotten more capable. So when bad times come, we face the problem without panicking in a manner that suits the occasion.
I felt that the response to A9's first full album "IDEAL", which was worked on concurrently with such rough times, and the tour in conjunction with that, "IDEAL HORIZON", were both something that made the fans extremely happy, like "This is what A9 is!".
Saga: To put it another way, I thought that we had put something out where nothing could be done if it wasn't received well. So I was confident that it would be received well. Because the goal we have as a band is even further beyond that. With that considered, it wasn't a time for us to take a gamble. We all thought it was a time where we should just put out something that was simply good, something that was A9.
So that's why I got the impression that a lot of former fans came back.
Saga: Oh, many people have told us that, that they had recently drifted away but then came back. It makes me happy. But we could only have done that sort of thing now.
Why now?
Saga: We have a route, after all. I think that if it weren't for the 12th anniversary live where we went back to our roots, we would not have been able to do a tour like "IDEAL HORIZON". Before that, last year, we made "LIGHT AND DARKNESS". I think that we were able to return to our roots only after having done the "TRUTH IN LIGHT AND DARKNESS" tour. In that way, everything is connected. After going from one place to the next, it turned out like this. So it's not something that you can aim to do. We have always chosen the path where we think "We can only do this right now".
And what you can only do now is this release, where the members wrote the same amount of songs.
Saga: That was, if I do say so myself, a success. For our band, it wouldn't be enough if I were to just write plenty of songs on my own and tried to write songs in different genres. This is something that I had thought before making the album. In our early days, we all wrote songs in a balanced way. So in that case, I was free to do any bass arrangement I wanted, and thought the fans would find it more interesting to listen to that sort of album.
To date, with you taking the initiative in terms of the music, did the other members come to write songs less?
Saga: I don't know about that. Everyone does write songs, but there is a tendency for me to arbitrarily narrow down the selection. In my mind, I think "This song is not quite right".
When did this start?
Saga: Quite a long time ago, since around "VANDALIZE". But I've gotten tired of doing things that way. I've come to understand that this is not necessarily something that is good for the band. In A9, there can be no chemical reaction if the personality and musicianship of the five of us is not balanced.
Yes! That is exactly right.
Saga: I thought this around the time before we made "MEMENTO". After all, the people that like us want the see this balance.
When there is that balance, the band shines brightly.
Saga: That's right. No matter what kind of excellent music, detailed arrangement, or good sounds we perform with, that is not the scene that people want to see with A9. That is not the biggest weapon we have in our arsenal. In the end, I think that what everyone wants to see is the five of us doing something. In that way, we are like SMAP (laughs).
Just like SMAP, people want to see all five of you shining.
Saga: That's right. Even if only Takuya Kimura were to shine, the SMAP fans would think "This is not right". I think the same applies to us.
What made you realize that?
Saga: For example, when you look at the songs that our fans want to hear, it's all songs that are different from the songs the members are pushing. To us, we're like "You want to hear that song?".
There is mismatch between the songs the members like and the songs the fans like.
Saga: The mismatch was huge. Of course, there were also fans where there was no mismatch. Somehow, for me, I felt discomfort at that mismatch, and thought that we couldn't let it continue. So once again, when I thought about what it is that the ship called A9 wants to ultimately do, I thought that it would be pointless if the band wasn't shining. It's not that one member of the band is cool, it's that all five of us have to be cool. At that time, I realised that sometimes, the fans look at us from an angle that we can't even imagine. They look at the parts of us that are cool and that we don't even notice.
The fans knew of the different types of cool you can be.
Saga: I learned that fans have things that they are particular about, and there are as many favourite angles and many viewpoints as there are fans. So I reached the conclusion that if the five of us shine the most when we are united, then no matter what angle they look at us from, we would be cool.
Until then, it was as if for the music side, you were like "Now we're going to wear mode clothing and show this to everyone. Does it look good?". It's like you were coordinating what A9 would do.
Saga: When you do that and wear the clothes you like, even if people on one side thought it looked very cool, the people on the other side would be like "What's that? It doesn't look good at all". That's why the songs (that people want to hear) are always completely different from my own expectations. Since that mismatch kept getting wider and wider, I realised that it couldn't keep on going like this. That's why for the album "IDEAL", as a result of creating the album with the concept that it had to be something the five of us were involved in, it turned out the way it did.
In that respect, you were able to make something where there was no mismatch between the band and the fans.
Saga: That's right. Even on tour, the members were really liberated. From my position as the bassist, I saw the members performing really energetically.
In actuality, the fans were also happy, saying that on the tour, it had been a long time since they saw a live where the five of you were shining brightly.
Saga: That's right. To me, that's why made me the happiest. I really do think it was a good thing we did that.
So with that momentum, you will be releasing the new single "Re:Born" and rushing towards your 13th anniversary live.
Saga: First of all, regarding the 13th anniversary live, Show had said that our next stage costumes would be red. Then, when we were discussing what to do for the next single, since "MEMENTO" and "IDEAL" had a heavy feeling to it, there were concerns that if we kept going down that road for the next single, then we would be seen as that kind of band, so we talked about departing from that style and making a cheerful song. So I wrote the song. Then after that, there was the opinion that since people are saying that our style now is good, we should keep on going with that style (laughs). It makes you think "Don't screw with me!" (laughs).
That is quite cruel.
Saga: So we had a meeting. We were able to find balance by first showing the cheerful side and then not a cheerful side.
And the cheerful song that you wrote is "Re:Born"?
Saga: Yes.
It's not often that you write a cheerful song.
Saga: That's right, because I'm not good at writing cheerful songs. I'm not good at it, but I can't just leave it at that. If you only use cheerful chords, it's quite disgusting, so I tried to use as many minor chords as I could. As a result, it's a song that has quite a lot of changes. There's even a part where it's like Show is reading poetry. It's a confusing song (laughs). I hope that it's a song that sits well once we try playing it live.
So it's not a song that's straight up cheerful.
Saga: It's not. I can't write a song that is straight up cheerful. There is a part of me that stops me from doing so. Since it's cheerful, I have to do something weird with it. Something inside of me just makes me do that. I'm scared of it, like "Is it okay to write a cheerful song?". You need quite a lot of courage to release a cheerful song in this scene.
Is that so? You need courage?
Saga: At least I do. A part of me does not want to be seen as a cheerful band. I think there is a huge part of my subconscious that would hate it if we released a cheerful song as a single and people who listened it would say or think "They're a cheerful band". I don't like "cheerfulness that is easy to understand".
But if we had to say if A9 were a cheerful or gloomy band, then--
Saga: We're a cheerful and. But we're a "cheerful band" after having done many things, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. But personally, I am really against releasing a cheerful song as the lead track on a single. That's why naturally, we do many things with "Re:Born".
I see. And Tora was the director for the "Re:Born" music video, right?
Saga: Yes. It was great. It was so good there virtually weren't any unusable scenes. During the shoot, Tora took out his own phone and recorded my scenes, while saying "Cool" and "That was good~". That kind of thing has never happened before, I thought "It's going to start snowing" (laughs). I guess his senses would change now that he is directing.
But I was surprised that that kind of creative side was inside of Tora.
Saga: Tora is the type of person to see to the very bottom of things without rest regarding the things he likes, and the same goes with making videos. If the members can skillfully control that, then he is like a worker ant.
That is the user manual for Tora.
Saga: Yes (laughs). If you handle him in the wrong way, he just ends up being a guy who only drinks.
That's certainly true (laughs). And as for you, activities as the Chairman of the "Nose Mountain Club" are livening up.
Saga: That's right. I am deepening my social network.
How did that club start?
Saga: I've been curious for a long time now. I've arbitrarily thought "This person has a high nose bridge. I somehow feel some affinity with them". When I tweeted "I wonder what it would be like if such people came together and took a photo?", the fans reacted. And even the people themselves reacted to it. I was happy that they had interacted with me, and also a guy who had the look on his face that they also wanted to join the club appeared (laughs). There are actually more than I thought. If we can find a drummer, then we can put on a live show.
Isn't that amazing? The Nose Mountain Club.
Saga: Some fans even sent me information about a drummer with a high nose bridge, but that person turned out to be YOSHIKI (laughs). Isn't that just impossible, no matter how you look at it? So we are desperately looking for drummers! With a high nose bridge. If you find one, please let me know on Twitter (laughs).
Weren't you originally a person that didn't interact with people from outside your inner circle? But when it comes to the Nose Mountain Club, why are you so social?
Saga: I wonder why. Lately, I've been really popular among males. Even though I'm really unsocial, I've heard from people things like "That guy really likes Saga". Both my seniors an juniors. Encouraged by that, I've gradually become more social, like "I guess I will go talk to him then".
Wow! You go up and talk to them?
Saga: Only sometimes (laughs). Some time ago, Pentagon's Minpha...... Ah, but I couldn't approach him. One of the members had said to him "Saga wants to take a photo with you". It was kind of like a middle-schooler confessing to someone. Minpha came to me, as if he was summoned by his senior, and took a photo with me. He was a little embarrassed (laughs). So it's been gradual, but I've come to be more sociable. Usually, I'm not social at all. But everyone is nice. When we play to two-man shows or events, there are many nice seniors and well-mannered juniors, so I thought that I couldn't be unsociable. I came to think that I had to be more sociable. Some time ago, when we did a two-man show at Kooriyama, since the dressing room at Hip Shot is tiny, we rented a part of the dressing room at Club #9. On that day, Takuto Nakajima was doing a live there. It seems like he knew that we were using the dressing room. When I went there, he left a note on the table that said "Happy birthday, Saga".
Wow!! That's wonderful!
Saga: It's too wonderful. He's a real veteran. It made me wonder why he can just casually do these things. As expected, most of the veterans are really wonderful people. They're very nice. It made me want to be that kind of senior too.
While becoming more sociable and going out in the world as a musician, the other day, on your own Twitter account, without any hesitation, you publicly announced the "Yukue Shirezu" video for VOLLAND GUMP, your solo project which up until then, you had not publicly announced. It was so sudden, I was a little surprised.
Saga: Ah~. It was uploaded out of the blue. That was a song that I had secretly written two years ago. Two years ago was just the time when the band was not active, and I had nothing to do. So I thought about doing that kind of thing. To me, it felt natural. It didn't feel like I was taking on the challenge of doing it. Originally, I wanted to be a singer-songwriter, so rather than it being a bassist trying to sing, it felt like I was able to express the person that I had originally wanted to be, and it came really naturally. I pretty much played all the instruments in that song!
You even played the drums?
Saga: I got someone called Tsuyoshi Ratatouille (actually Nao) to play the drums (laughs). Apart from that, I played every instrument. I recorded it all at home.
And you also demo'd the song?
Saga: I had written the song some time ago, since when I was a high school student. Even though I thought that the song would never be released, since I had time, I thought about making it into a song, so when I worked on it at home, it turned out pretty good. So that's why I like the song. Since it's a song I freely made.
Did you not feel like doing that song with A9?
Saga: I didn't. It were to be done through the filter of A9, it would not have turned out that way. I'm sure that there are some fans who think that I should have done this song as A9, but by doing the song as a band, the melody changes. Also, A9 has two guitarists, and we arrange the songs with a heavy focus on Hiroto and Tora. If I were to write the song imagining how they would play it live, the guitar would be completely different. And if that is the case, then it wouldn't be the kind of tune and melody that I would do as a solo artist. But since it is my solo after all, it turned out that way.
I see. So what was the reason behind you disclosing that you were VOLLAND GUMP?
Saga: I thought about saying nothing about it and doing it secretly, but...... The reason why I did it in secret was because this part of me was gradually becoming weaker. I felt a sense of discomfort at the thought of fans buying the CD, even though it's not Visual-kei music, just because I made it. That's why I didn't say anything about it at first.
Oh. Fans would want to buy it if they knew it was you.
Saga: They probably would, and won't other people see it as more like "A9's Saga tried singing"? I didn't want it to be thought of that way, so I did it in secret. But my feelings changed to one where I didn't care what people thought. However, I really don't think of it as something I would make a business out of. I don't mind even handing it out for free. Because it's not something that I think has the value to be sold.
So it's more like you were sharing something that you freely made and had people listen to it, like "Please take a listen".
Saga: Yeah. It really was like that. That's why I made it so that you could listen to the full thing for free. And if you listened to it and liked it, you could also buy it.
What does "VOLLAND GUMP" mean?
Saga: I combined the names of the main chracter from two of my favourite movies: The music teacher Mr Holland from "Mr. Holland's Opus" and Gump from "Forrest Gump". Gump is a person that lives off his instincts quite a lot, and I do look up to him. With the feelings that that is the form that I want my music to have, I chose that name.
Do you have any other songs?
Saga: I still have a lot more songs apart from this one that I haven't released. I have about 30 songs. Because I have to sing those songs. I mean, I am the one who understands the song the most. So I want to give shape to it.
Do many of the songs solitary and a North European feel to them?
Saga: It's varied. There are also bright songs. I've always liked the shamisen. I really like Tsugaru-jamisen.
How did you come to like it?
Saga: What was it...... It was much earlier than the Yoshida Brothers, but it wasn't Fuyumi Sakamoto. Who was it? It was an enka singer, and the prelude to their song was tsugaru-jamisen, and it was really cool ("Come Home" by Kazuko Matsumura). It was really cool. So cool that I thought "A guitar couldn't beat this". It felt like that coolness could only be got with the shamisen, so ever since then, when I've got nothing to do, I was videos of shamisen playing on YouTube. At home, I would imitate the playing style of the shamisen on the guitar or bass. When I did that, I thought "Oh! This is pretty cool". And that phrase I played with the guitar--
Is in VOLLAND GUMP's "Sayonara Rosalia"?
Saga: That's right! I still have many of these shamisen-like phrases. I've not used them even once in A9 songs, but I actually have a lot of them. Personally, it's those phrases that are the most rock-like.
Huh? Really?
Saga: Yeah. The rock music I make = shamisen-like phrases. They are phrases that I can be confident in saying "Only I can make this phrase". So no matter how many times I listen to it t home, I think that it's really good. I really do think that only I can make this kind of phrase. For this phrase, I played it on the guitar only with downpicking. In the same way a shamisen is played.
That's why the guitar sounds so percussive.
Saga: That's what's so good about it! It's rock. Even just playing it gets me fired up. I have about 10 songs in that style. I really like the phrasing in the introduction of "Sayonara Rosalia". I still have plenty more amazing things! I even have a song in this kind of style that is 10 minutes long.
You should put them out into the world.
Saga: Rather than it wanting to sell well, I want people to listen to it.
When you performed a VOLLAND GUMP song as "THE ALTERNATIVE" with Nao, while singing, do you play the bass or guitar?
Saga: I sang while playing the guitar. Although performing in front of fans, they would say "Saga is standing in the center playing a guitar and singing~", won't a person who knows nothing about me not react in that way? Because they would think it's normal. That's the way I actually wanted to present my songs. But I don't care about that anymore.
So you should release an album.
Saga: I will. Since I have completed songs. All I have to do is write lyrics.
Will this be done concurrently with A9's activities?
Saga: That's right. But I don't want to get in the way of A9's activities. I hope I can release the solo album by the end of the year while doing A9 activities. I want to release the fruits of my labour.
The fruits of your creative activities.
Saga: Yes. Since that is the only place where I can present 100% of myself. For A9, don't we have to think about how to not let this ship that we're all riding sink, and have to move it towards our destination? That's why the simple attitude of just making anything won't work. But for VOLLAND GUMP, there is nothing riding on this, so I can take it easy, like an amoeba drifting in the ocean.
You should also make some songs for the Nose Mountain Club! Since you're the one who suggested it, you need become more sociable to bring the people together and lead them, or else nothing will happen.
Saga: That's right. Please put an ad in ROCK AND READ too, saying "Looking for drummers with a high nose bridge" (laughs).
Since A9 is doing well, your extracurricular activities must be fun.
Saga: That's right. It would have been great if it were like this from the beginning, but there are many setbacks in life. The same goes for bands. But we have to use that as motivation. If not, we can only live an unfortunate life. If we use it as motivation, when things go your way even in the slightest, you'll be able to think "I'm so happy". So to those people who think their life is a mess right now, please use that as motivation.
Where did that mature life advice come from?
Saga: The fans have it tough too, you know? There are also some fans from the generation that says "It's tough giving care to my mother, so seeing Saga is the only bright spot in my life". That's real.
Of the fans supporting you, there are some fans in that generation?
Saga: That's right. And fans that were once elementary school students now have kids. Hearing that, I feel that even more so, I have to support the fans with all my strength as A9's Saga.
You've become a little more sociable, and it seems like you are becoming a more dependable person.
Saga: I'll keep working hard!
1 In Japan, some people believe that different blood types have different personality traits.
Celebrating 14 years since formation. Roughly three years have passed since changing their band name to A9. At the solo live show held in June this year, the members excited the audience by showing us their singing and dancing. However, this may have surprised many people, and left them wondering "Why would A9 do that...!?". To Nao, the fact that he is a band in itself is irregular. We asked Nao, who has the role of A9's "special effect", about the strength of the current A9, who can happily give a performance unbecoming of a band without being afraid of being misunderstood, as well as the intentions behind that.
The theme of this photoshoot was done based on Nao's request. What is behind this theme?
Nao: Though being in our 14th year, including Ken (L'Arc~en~Ciel), we've met a variety of people, and I feel like I've gotten a little more flexible in my way of thinking. The mood in the band right now is that we'll do away with common practice. So the image I had in mind is that I will also take on a new challenge for this photoshoot. In the past, I had this way of thinking, like "We are like this", but it's only because we have self-confidence we can absorb many things and want to take on new challenges. Or rather, we can be dyed any colour. That's the mode we're in.
I think that there is no mistake in saying that Nao was the one who created the turning point to allow the band to get into that mode. Here, I would like to explore the variety of transformations that A9 have recently made, from your point of view. But before that, let me ask you about how you yourself have changed. If you could name a moment that was a turning moment for you as a drummer, what would it be?
Nao: Simply put, it would have to be the point where in order to create an even better release, I thought to learn about recording, bought recording equipment, and created an environment where I could actually record and listen to my own playing.
Oh. And that must also be another reason why you created "Nao Studio", which even now, you still use for recording.
Nao: That's right. When making a release, in order to communicate to engineers in more accurate words, such as "Please make ○○ into xxx instead", instead of in abstract terms like "Make it more solid" or "With a gentle feeling", I thought that I myself had to have the knowledge about recording and equipment. That's why I made a studio. And that is where I learned about equipment.
Did you create the studio after graduating from PS Company?
Nao: That's right.
But after graduating from PS Company, the band had fallen into the danger involving the continuity of the band itself, right?
Nao: That's right. After going independent, we were all optimistic. After that, we hired a manager and did our band activities, but it did not have the feeling that we had imagined. Thinking about it now, the mood we had at the time was a gloomy one. I am always carefree, so I thought "It'll probably turn out okay in the end", but not everyone thought that way. It probably really was a rough time for us. I am also responsible for accounting in the band, so I proposed a new system for doing our band activities.
You proposed it?
Nao: Yes, I did. I drafted something like a business plan and proposed it to everyone.
That's amazing! Why are you responsible for accounting the first place, though?
Nao: Probably because I'm cut out for it. As a person, I'm better at math than I am at drumming. Gahahaha! To be honest, I'm not really the kind of person to be in a band.
Do you mean that you are not cut out to be in a band?
Nao: Yes. If I had to say, I think I'm the kind of person that does not have the traits of a band member or artist. Because I'm the kind of person where people had always said to me that I'm more fitted to be like a researcher who quietly does his work alone. So now, I am living a life that even I had not imagined for myself. To go further, I am living an irregular life right now.
Meaning that while living out this irregular life, the Nao that thought up of a business plan to present is more like the life that you imagined for yourself, or rather, the kind of thing you would be doing in a regular life?
Nao: Yeah! I am better at thing kind of thing. I've always been good at math. My grades in trial exams were really good. I really like math, so for example, just looking at budget plans made in Excel or a list of numbers, my intuition just gets to work, like "These numbers are strange".
But a part of the reason why A9 was able to escape from that danger regarding the continuity of the band, is precisely because there was a competent member like you, who can write up a perfect business plan and manage the financials, in the band, right?
Nao: Hmm... Well, since they leave that stuff to me, I do think that they trust me. If they entrust something to me, I am confident that I can do it. I wanted to allow the members to immerse themselves in music without having to worry about this kind of thing.
So reliable!!
Nao: I wanted the members to work on song-writing without having these worldly thoughts. So if I had to say which, I'm more of a background person. I am more suited to being a staff member. Uhahahahaha!
Even now, do you think that as a band, it was a good thing for you to depart from your management company?
Nao: Yes, I think it was a good thing. We were also able to learn that our band was ignorant about how the world worked. It's only because we have gone through many struggles since going independent until now that we feel even more grateful for the 10 years that we spent in our previous company. When we were in the company, they took care of the things around us, and we were able to freely focus on music only. We also didn't have to worry about our livelihoods, and we also had the time to go drinking with people and such. Now, I don't have that kind of time. Now I'm doing musical activities, accounting, and also managing goods, I've got my hands full.
So when you're not bashing on the drums, are you just sitting at home all the time bashing the calculator?
Nao: Yeah! It's exactly like that! I really do have a full plate. When I'm not playing the drums, I'm summing up all the expenses, and I've also go to draft business plans for our company. I really am bashing on the calculator (laughs).
I would think that leaving your management company would be a big turning point for the band. From your point of view, have the members also changed since going independent?
Nao: Yes. They all look at the reality, and no longer say unreasonable things, so for me, I really feel that it has become easier to talk to them. When we were in the previous company, we didn't see the reality, so we could casually say things like "I want to play a live with a massive LED screen behind us". We've been saying that since over 10 years ago (laughs). Well, the company also listened to the things we wanted to do, and it felt like they had granted us our wishes. Even so, I was on the side that thought "Isn't it impossible, in terms of scale?".
So you were a realist.
Nao: Yeah. But I think that it's more important to chase your dreams. Because if you don't have any dreams, you can't do fun things. The key thing here is balance. Now, the members are more realistic, so it's easy to do band activities. Unlike the past, there's not been a clash between exactly opposing opinions. I think we are now discussing things upon understanding reality a little more. That's why it feels like we were finally able to learn about the world after going independent. And we have gotten stronger, as people.
All of you.
Nao: Yes. When you're in a management company, you have the weird sense of security. But when you go independent, you have that sense of danger of not knowing when things will end. The moment someone says "I'm going to quit", it's over. Because it's not a strange thing for a member to say that, even if you were to do activities with the same direction in mind. In that respect, right now, we have this sense of danger that despite wanting to continue, it will become physically impossible to continue. Unlike when we were in a management company, since everything we do is done out of our own will, there is nothing like any obligation that we have to keep going. You can't say that it won't end. That is why each and every one of us became stronger. The same goes with Tora and working on videography, but I think that it's important to consider what it is that you can do and to build up such skills.
Does the way that you feel like something was worth doing differ from now, when you are doing things of your own will, and when you were in a management company?
Nao: I think in both situations, things are worth doing, but the amount of freedom we have now is different. Now, for better or for worse, we decide on the things that we want to do for ourselves, and we even create a schedule for this, so we have quite a lot of freedom. Now, apart from our band activities that we do of our own will, we are nobodies. Having been in this band for 14 long years, we are having fun now.
Even though it's tough?
Nao: Yeah. But it's fun. I am glad that I can be in a band for this long and still think that it is fun.
Looking back on these last 14 years, were there any times in the past where it seemed like the band would disband?
Nao: I personally didn't feel it, but-- I don't know if it was going to be "disbandment" or "quitting", but there were members that went through a period where these feelings were strong.
When was that?
Nao: That was at the time when we had gone independent and things just weren't working out for the band, and perhaps they even felt that way when were in our management company. I haven't directly heard this from them, so I don't know the whole truth, though. I only accidentally heard about this very vaguely.
Why do you think you have been able to continue for 14 years?
Nao: Even if not in a band, no matter what you do in life, isn't there always going to be at least 1 or 2 things that you dislike? Even so, in the end, it's probably because I think "I need to have the other 4 in my life". Is this answer too positive (laughs)? But I really do think that way.
So you yourself have never once thought that you wanted to quit the band?
Nao: Me? I don't think so. Although if it did end, I would think that it is what it is, but I don't think that I myself would ever want to quit, and I don't think that I would think this in the future either. I have always been saying this, but I have decided that this band will be my last band. I chose the path of music despite strong opposition from my parents, so if I were to not close the chapter of my life with music, having done all I could and with no regrets, people might say that I had made the wrong choice back then. And I would hate that. At that time, I also had my pride, which was music. Thinking about it, I'm bad at giving up. I don't really give up. Although when I think something is no good, I am very quick at deciding to give up on it (laughs).
So you don't take the all-or-nothing gamble.
Nao: I hate gambling. But I like casinos. Because I have the confidence that I will definitely win. It's not good to be greedy. I draw the line myself and stop when I have reached that line. If you just keep doing that, then you definitely won't lose. I don't go all in, but gradually build it up. That's just my personality. I am a cautious person.
It's very interesting that being as cautious as you are, you created the opportunity for A9 to become free.
Nao: Huh? What do you mean?
Because everything started when you did your impersonation of Sunshine Ikezaki. That is where A9 got more interesting.
Nao: Oh~ (laughs). What, really? I'm the one who made things weird?
Yes, without a doubt (laughs). If I remember correctly, you first started doing that on the A9 Tour 2017 "BLACK PERIOD".
Nao: I get the feeling it was around that time.
At the time, you were boasting that you knew of Sunshine Ikezaki many years before that.
Nao: Yeah, that's right (laughs). I learned of him by chance, and I thought "He's really funny! He's probably going to do well". And then he got popular. As expected, it's about the potential. When I first saw him, no one was laughing at his act. The silence was deafening. I thought that it was amazing that he did his very best, despite the silence. It was that attitude that hit me first. I don't want my playing to be influenced by the condition or groove of the crowd on the day. Aren't there also bands that are affected mentally and have their playing affected by the poor response from the crowd? I don't like that. What's important is to not get sucked into the response from the crowd, but to always do your very best to the best of your abilities. In that respect, I think Sunshine Ikezaki is amazing. Regardless of the situation around him, he communicates his craft at 100%. I really think that if there isn't such mental strength and potential in the band, then things definitely won't go well.
I see. I understand that Sunshine Ikezaki's mentality left a deep impression on you. But why did you think to do an impersonation of him on stage?
Nao: I don't know. I probably did it on the spur of the moment (laughs).
And when you did, it was received well. After that, at every live, you had your own "justice skit". When you were playing at events at the time, the band even reduced the number of songs on the setlist to make time for that skit.
Nao: Oh yeah (laughs).
I think the start of the turning point in granting freedom in A9 lives was that.
Nao: Oh, I see. But I think that opportunity was born out of my natural feelings. I have always had a big part of me where I felt that I always have to be calm when it comes to the drums. But I want to get rid of all of that and enjoy myself. Or rather, I simply want to create a fun space, and I think those feelings just couldn't be contained. Because I don't want to do the things I don't like. Although there is not much that I don't like (laughs). So I want to live happily, and I want the people who support us to live happily. I think doing these things naturally came to me from that.
I see. So on that tour, you also played with young bands, and during the set of DIAURA and DEZERT, you barged out on stage wearing your justice sunglasses and started singing. What was that about? You're a drummer, right?
Nao: Oh, yeah. Ahahahahaha. That's true. But I don't want the bands in the younger generation to be more mindful of us than is necessary. Since it's boring if it's just them playing and then us playing, I thought that I might as well take this as an opportunity to be more friendly with them. And that's why I think I ended up doing that (laughs). I also heard that the Visual-kei scene is starting to get more sombre, so I thought that we have to transcend the boundaries of generation and work together to liven up the scene. This is also something that our seniors did.
And you, who was livening things up with your Sunshine Ikezaki impersonation, was especially chosen for this task.
Nao: No! My existence is like a "special effect". Before I knew it, I had this special effect quality, just like the coloured tape you see at live shows (laughs). Among our members, I'm not the cool type, and we have some members that probably shouldn't destroy their character to that extent. I'm not the kind of person who says "It has to be like this". Also, for example, if Show were to do this, he would probably go, "No, I need to make the proper preparations so I can deliver something that is perfect". But I think this is something that was done because I could probably be able to do it on the spur of the moment.
Is that so? But with that performance as an opportunity for your big break, you carry the performance to "UNDEAD PARTY" as well.
Nao: Yes. Somewhere along the way, the song ended up being that way.
It gave birth to the performance where you leave the drums, come out to the front of the stage and egg on the audience.
Nao: I guess it's like that because it's a party song. I think my existence suits the feel of the song.
You're a party animal?
Nao: Yes. Even though normally, I don't give off the party animal feeling (laughs).
What do you think of boldly and heavily featuring in "UNDEAD PARTY"?
Nao: At first, I hated it. I was like "What?!". As a drummer, I don't really want to go to the front of the stage. After all, I like the feeling of sitting at the drums. So I thought it wasn't suitable for a drummer to come to the front of the stage without even holding my drumsticks. So at first, I was nervous. But the mood when you're at the front suddenly changes, and it seems like it goes down well even with the people seeing us for the first time, so it's fine. Even when we played live at Nico Nico Chokaigi, there were many strange comments saying "What is this comedic feeling?" (laughs).
Have you made any discoveries, after actually coming and standing at the front of the stage?
Nao: It feels good at the front of the stage (laughs). Because you can directly feel the heat from the audience. When you get closer to the audience, it's hot! There was something like a barrier there. There was a barrier between the stage and the audience. When I took a step outside of the barrier from the stage side, it was really hot (laughs). All of a sudden it got steamy. I was surprised, like "So this is the true heat of the audience". Also, I could see real clearly all the way to the back. When you are playing an instrument, your nerves focus on performing, and to be honest, there are times where you don't really have the time to look at the audience. But when you're egging on the audience, although it's not like you are having a conversation with them-- and I don't know whether they are looking me in the eye or not, but even so, when you egg them on while making eye contact with them, I feel that you can have a conversation with them. In many ways, I've gotten mentally stronger.
But there are also times when you make eye contact with the audience while drumming, right?
Nao: You know, it's really embarrassing to make eye contact with the audience when playing the drums. Or to think that you are being watched when playing the drums. That's why when we make eye contact, I end up looking into the distance (laughs).
So then why do you make eye contact with the audience when you are at the front of the stage egging them on?
Nao: It's not embarrassing at all when I'm at the front of the stage and holding a microphone. I wonder why. This is a mystery.
And things escalated further during the tour this year. In the song "CASTLE OF THE NINE" on your new album "PLANET NINE", you jumped into a performance where all five members sing and show a full-blown dance.
Nao: Yes. We've come to be able to sing and dance. We also have our own microphones. Just as I talked about at the very beginning of the interview, it's only because we are in the state we are in now that we can do our activities not being bound by common practices.
Honestly, what did you think when you were first told that in this song, you would do a full-blown dance?
Nao: I thought that I definitely wouldn't be able to dance. Well, there, we had an instructor teach us about dance, formations, and steps, spartan style. At first, our time was devoted to practice. Although when we first started, I did wonder if we would be able to learn it in time.
And at EX Roppongi Theater, the early stage of the tour, you performed this dance for the first time in front of an audience. How did you feel at the time?
Nao: I didn't have much time to consider that since I was so nervous.
But it got a huge reaction from the crowd, didn't it?
Nao: Yes. I was surprised, since we got such large cheers, similar to the time we played shows overseas.
Were you also scared that you might have faced some criticisms by setting down your instruments, despite being a band, to dance? Like "What the hell are you doing? You're a band".
Nao: I didn't have that. When I watched a video of the dance that the instructor had sent us, it looked difficult to the point I wondered if I could really do it. I thought that if we were really able to learn the dance, then we would be able to show everyone a proper dance, so I didn't really think about criticism. Since this is a proper performance and not like a random dance, I didn't have any of those concerns. Actually, with this dance, it started off with us thinking that it didn't seem like we could pull it off, and we were thinking about having the instructor make it simpler. But in the meantime, we tried it out. Just when we thought that the instructor would make the dance simpler once they knew that we couldn't do it, in the end, the instructor wouldn't let us leave until we were able to do it (laughs). After that, I'm quite sure we all practiced at home too.
You did too, right?
Nao: I did, I did. I thought that rather than my brain, I had to make my body remember it.
By the way, were there any members that where already good at dancing from the start?
Nao: Hiroto was good at dancing from the beginning. So was Tora.
Ah. The active Hiroto and the person responsible for introducing party songs into A9, Tora.
Nao: Yes. But I really did think that you never know what will happen in life (laughs).
So A9 have achieved a shocking transformation over these last one to two years.
Nao: Have we changed? We don't really feel like we've changed though.
I don't think there are many bands that have been able to undergo such a sudden change right before the band's 15th year anniversary. If anyone else apart from the fans were to know that A9 were dancing on stage, I think they will be really surprised.
Nao: But the five of us just want to have fun. I guess that's all it is. And "CASTLE OF THE NINE" is just one form of that.
Are you a band with that kind of fun element?
Nao: It's something you can't tell about yourself, but people say that we are a "friendship-type" band.
What does that mean?
Nao: That we're apparently the friendship-type of band (laughs). Some of our lyrics are about friendship, and people say that the mood in the band is one of friendship! Somehow, our band exudes that feeling of male companionship. I guess it means that the five of us exude this feeling that we are on really friendly terms.
When it was decided that you would do a full-blown dance, it wouldn't be strange for even one member to be opposed to it, since you are a band. But when A9 made the decision to do it, no one had opposed it, and you all saw it through to the end. Maybe that is where people see the friendship.
Nao: I did think that if I was allowed to dance, I wanted to dance. Hahaha! Huh? If I'm allowed to sing, then I want to sing! That was the feeling. The feeling was that if I was allowed to do such things, and not just be in a band and play drums, then I'd want to do it.
That all members can share that feeling is the strength of A9, and what makes you interesting.
Nao: Really? I don't know about that.
In this case, apart from time to voluntarily practice your instruments, you also made the time to voluntarily practice dancing, and no one had any opposition to it. Why do you think everyone was able to do that?
Nao: For me, I simply thought that it seemed like it would be fun if we could do it. That is all. I could never imagine myself to be able to dance, but I wanted to try it, because it seemed like it would be fun.
In your case in particular, that you are walking this path as a band member and a drummer is irregular, right? Then on top of that, you add even more irregular things, such as standing on stage to sing and dance. To you, A9 must be like a Pandora's Box, which keeps opening up new opportunities in life that you had never even imagined.
Nao: Yeah, that's right! That's exactly right. That's why I never get bored doing this.
So what will you do next?
Nao: We are planning more fun things. We are already preparing for it. When we had a meeting for it, it really started to escalate. "Since we are doing it, let's go all out. It will be more fun that way". On top of that, we are also trying to work on more fun things.
Is that how it always starts off, when you take on new challenges?
Nao: Yes. From someone saying "Won't this be fun if we did it?". Although "something fun" sounds like a happy thing, sometimes, "something fun" is something that not many people are doing. We would like to do those kinds of things. Though we are a band, we would like to do interesting things, not being bound by the common practice of what bands should be like. When we start talking, we get all these ideas that make you go "What?! We're going to do that?". Like if we did this, we would find it fun, and it would surely go down well with the audience.
Since it's something that people aren't really doing, you can try taking on the challenge with feelings of excitement and that it will be fun.
Nao: Yeah, that's right.
Do you get a different kind of joy when the audience reacts well to the songs, dance, and performances?
Nao: It doesn't change. Because I do these performances as a part of the band.
I see. So when you look out into the future of doing fun things without being restricted by the boundaries of being a band, what kind of scenery would you like to see?
Nao: Hmm... Hmm... I want to live the kind of life where, when I've arrived at the last stop of my life, right before my death, I can say without any hesitation that "I played music in this life". That isn't just limited to the drums. So I would like to get the strength so I can continue on with music. With the cooperation of many people. The same goes with the dancing, but I was grateful to have an instructor that was willing to work with the five of us, who have a hard time remembering things, and seriously teaching us how to dance. I think that because the instructor also thought that it would be interesting if the five of us were able to dance, they worked that hard. With the cooperation of many people, I would like to do more new things going forward. At the very end of it all, if I could build up a variety of experiences and be able to think that I really led a rich musical life, then I would be happy.
As you head towards your 15th year anniversary, do you have plans to keep opening new doors, not being bound by the common practices of bands?
Nao: We do have such plans. It's going to be tough though. But if we can pull it off, it will be amazing, and it will be fun. I hope you all look forward to it.
Tora, who makes his first appearance in this magazine after roughly four years. In those four years, the band went completely independent and changed their band name. Tora, the guitarist, has come to be responsible for directing music videos. Although he responds with indifference, saying "Nothing has changed", that he is also working on videography is surely the result of him thinking about what he should do for A9.
Tora, who, unlike his physical appearance, says that "finding the gaps" as a supporting member to the main role suits his personality, he looks back on his life as a creator.
Apparently, the last time you appeared in this magazine was roughly four years ago.
Tora: Nothing as changed in these four years. Oh, but now I'm making music videos.
That's right. I would like to hear about the changes that have happened over the last four years, including how it was that you came to make music videos. Since leaving your previous management company, A9 has reached this point, even experiencing dangers about the existence of the band itself. When there were concerns over continuity of the band, what did you think?
Tora: I myself didn't feel any threats to the continuity of the band. I did think that we were in a rough spot and... Actually, I'm the one who is most in a rough spot when it comes to just living out a life. But thinking that we would probably continue, on the inside, I was calm. I think that's just my personality. (Here, Tora gets a phone call from Show. After talking for a while, he says with a smile) He complimented me on the music video! That's a relief~! I've never written a song and had the members compliment me on it, though (laughs).
But they will compliment you on music videos?
Tora: (With a smile) They do! My talents might lie there instead. When it comes to music videos, I don't really care about myself.
But you are also a member, Tora.
Tora: I am. But when you end up going this far (supervising, camerawork, direction, editing), you also include shots of yourself where you think look a little weird. In order to maintain overall balance. The reason why is because it's a scary thing. I've got this fear that someone might say to me "You put in cuts that make the other members look bad in order to make yourself look good, right?". If that's the case, you end up choosing a cut of yourself that makes other people look good, and you just end up going "I don't care anymore. This is fine". That's why only my cuts look a little iffy (laughs). There aren't really any cuts that make me look cool. But in order to create the music video, I look at a lot of footage. Really. I watch the entire music video frame by frame. I watch every single frame and pause it to check that there is no strange looking faces.
You even do such tedious work?
Tora: Yes. There are 24 frames in one second, and I watch all of them. I watch the entire music video like tap, tap, tap (pretends to tap the keys on a keyboard).
So you check the members faces frame by frame?
Tora: Yes, because there are some people who have a fear of freeze frames (laughs). I check Show's face in particular. Even if your face is that good looking, if you look ugly during a freeze frame, it just ruins everything. So there shouldn't be any weird faces.
So in the music videos that you made, there should be no ugly faces, even if you pause it.
Tora: Right. It should be fine. Oh, I have some pretty ugly shots though, because I gave up. I mean, you wouldn't look at your own face frame by frame. Who cares about me.
Is the music video that Show just complimented you on for the lead song "UNREAL" from your new album "PLANET NINE"?
Tora: Yeah. Actually, I was only just working on it (interview took place in the middle of March). I watched the music video for about three days straight, and I finally finished it.
You began working on videography once you went independent, right?
Tora: That's right. When I realized that we can do everything by ourselves, I wanted to do something new. I have always liked videography, so I started working on it.
So whenever you had music videos taken in the past, did you observe how it was all done?
Tora: No, I didn't go so deep into the details. Music video shoots are crowded with people, and there is none of that coordination you get with shooting still photos. A music video is something that is jointly made with about three teams all interacting at the shooting location. We do talk with the director, but the filming location is brutal, and you don't really feel like you can ask "How are we going to make this?". So even if you wanted to study it, if you don't have a certain level of knowledge, even if you were to be at the filming location, you wouldn't know what's what.
So where did you learn about videography?
Tora: On the internet. And in my case, I started from video editing. Thinking "The video editing will surely turn out okay in the end" and wanting to just be able to at least do editing, when I first started doing this, I had the mind of an editor. The same goes for photos, but with videos, there is the material which is processed. Since you can make anything through editing, at first, I thought that editing was everything. But lately I've realised that it's the material that is more important. Now, I'm learning about cameras, lenses, and lighting, and bought some equipment myself.
What?! Do you have a complete set of filming equipment?
Tora: I've got a full set now. We can film a music video using only the equipment we have now.
So you bought equipment for cameras, and not guitars (laughs)
Tora: Yeah (laughs). The guitar is fine too, but I've already gone way past the level of buying guitar equipment to learn about it.
So in the world of videography, you bought equipment and are learning the basics.
Tora: That's right! Because if I don't first learn the basics, I won't be able to understand what's what with even more expensive equipment.
So for the purpose of video production, you are getting both knowledge and equipment.
Tora: It has really escalated, and I've gotten more and more equipment.
Did you start video production because the members told you to?
Tora: It was completely of my own will.
Is it fun to watch the same footage for three days straight?
Tora: It's not fun. Oh, I don't know, it might be fun. I might even like it quite a lot. I like making things. The same goes for songs. Maybe that's why.
Be it making songs or music videos, they are both the same in terms of making something.
Tora: They are no different.
When you were a kid, did you like building plastic models and such?
Tora: Not at all (laughs). For my generation, we were into Mini 4WD toys. I have memories of really fiddling around with the Mini 4WD toys and remodelling them. In my generation, plastic models weren't really popular.
So your life as a creator started with remodelling Mini 4WD toys. How did it develop from there on?
Tora: After Mini 4WD toys, it was manga. I would divide a piece of paper into four sections and draw really simple drawings in each section to make a book. I would trade that with my friends. That was when I was in elementary school.
Did you have a talent for drawing?
Tora: Not at all. Apart from me, there were two other guys who would draw manga, and one of them was really talented at drawing. Thinking about it now, I only really started drawing because I was jealous of his talent. All I did was simply imitate his drawings. Since I was a kid, all I pretty much drew was manga about fighting. It was fun to draw and come up with stories.
What came after manga?
Tora: Did you have a newspaper committee at school?
We did. They are involved in making the school newspaper, right?
Tora: Yeah. I get the feeling I did that.
Did you nominate yourself to be on the committee?
Tora: Yeah. Probably because I like editing. Despite the fact that since I was born until now, I've never read a single book that was just text.
Rather than manga or printed text, you probably liked the work of editing it into a single body of work.
Tora: That's why talking to you, what makes me think that I've not changed at all is surely because once I learn something, I want to communicate that information I've gained to everyone. The same goes for videos. I learn about something once, absorb it all in, and want to communicate that information to everyone. Like "I learned it!". Because you can do that, I think creating things is fun.
You want to show people what you made and have them compliment you.
Tora: I want them to sympathise with it. Since I put something out there because I think it's good, I want them to sympathise with it. That's definitely what it is.
And because you want everyone to sympathise with it, you study.
Tora: No, it's not like I study because I want people to sympathise with what I made. I study for my own sake. I want them to sympathise with the thing that I, who had studied up on it, had made.
I see. So after the school newspaper, where did you focus your creative efforts next?
Tora: I guess that would be music...... Ah! No, there was still something else. Back then, there was this thing where you could make role-playing games. There was a game where you could make RPGs like Dragon Quest, and I played that all the time (laughs). This was pretty cool (laughs). Thinking about it now, it was a pretty amazing game, being able to make RPGs. RPGs can't be made so easily, and it was hard. First of all, you would make a city, then you would place people there and give them their own lines. RPGs back then had a key system. For example, you could give one of the people spread out across the entire city a key. If you spoke to that person, they would give you the key, and you move to the next step. So I would think up of stories to make people talk to that guy with the key. I would make these games with three to four friends, and at the end, we would come together and play each other's game. I must have spent three to four months making the game.
That is still a lot of time to spend on it, as a child.
Tora: I must have played that game quite a lot. But when you actually played the game, the game didn't even last for 15 minutes! Well, of course it didn't, now that I think about it (laughs). Of course. When the ending credits of a game comes up, don't you see the names of hundreds of people? That's what it takes to make a game.
Did it not make you feel like you wanted to become someone who made games when you grew up, and to create an RPG that was the real deal?
Tora: No, I would give up. Because it took me three to four months to make a 15 minute game (laughs). At that time, I thought "I've got no talent for this, it's impossible".
So did music come after RPGs?
Tora: This was around middle school, so I was already doing music. The creating that I did from here on was creating music.
What inspired you to start writing music?
Tora: What made me want to write my own original music was that my juniors had played their own original song at a live, and it was a really good song. I got annoyed, like "Why can they write such a good song?". So the first song I wrote was pretty much a plagiarised song... Huh? I think it was the opposite. The first song I wrote might have been too original, and a real awful song. In any case, I wrote songs learning by imitation. It was a time where I didn't have a computer yet, so I would set down a recorder beside me and record onto a cassette tape.
Did you make songs with the same feeling you did when you were making games?
Tora: When I first started, it did feel similar. It was really fun. Since it was my juniors who first wrote an original song and played it live in front of everyone, I was looking forward to whether or not my own original song could also be played, if I wrote one, and I feel like I was really motivated by that.
So did you start learning how to write songs?
Tora: I learned by imitation. Unlike now, the internet was not widespread yet, so there was not much information. All you could do was believe in your own instincts and write songs. If you were to read magazines, they did write up on how to compose songs, but the magazines back then were really careless about it (laughs). They would write things like "With this, even you can write songs!", or "Let's write a song using a chord from a Mr. Children song!", and they would have the chord entirely written out (laughs).
Like "you can write a hit song if you use the chord progression from this Mr. Children song"?
Tora: Yeah. Well, of course you could. But in the beginning, I didn't even know what chord progression was. It was only until much later that I begun to understand those things. Song writing is about instinct.
So when was it that you actually learned about song composition, and didn't only use your instincts?
Tora: Who knows...... It must have been when I joined alicenine. It's more like I gradually learned about it.
Did you yourself feel that it was necessary to learn it?
Tora: No. Actually, when alicenine. had first formed, I thought "Writing songs is a pain in the ass". Even at that time, I wrote songs, thinking that it wasn't going well. I thought "This doesn't feel right. I'm not suited to song-writing". Even so, I still wrote songs, but no matter what I did, the songs felt lame to me. I really hated that. In general, I don't really have a lot of self-confidence, so regarding my musical talent...... Ah...... No. It's not that I felt like I didn't have any talent. I mean, even without studying--
You were able to write songs learning by imitation.
Tora: Yeah! It's a mystery why I was able to write songs. Despite not researching anything. So if that's the case, then maybe I actually do have a knack for relative pitch?
That's what it would mean. Where do you think that sense of pitch was honed?
Tora: Maybe from the pop music that I listened to when I was a kid. My dad is really tone deaf! To the point it's unbelievable. It's really bad that I've never met anyone in my life that was as bad as him. He can't sing the same melody. When there are songs playing in the car and he hums along to them, it ends up being a completely different melody. It's so off it makes you wonder if he was trying to harmonise instead. That's why when I was a kid, I would always ask him what he was singing. My dad would be smiling awkwardly and say "I'm singing the song that's playing now". I had no idea what he was singing (laughs).
But even so, your dad still liked music, right?
Tora: Seems like it. He used to own a flute. Also, the very first instrument I played was my dad's acoustic guitar. Now that I think about it, he must like music. So why is he so tone deaf (laughs)?
It's a good thing that you're not tone deaf and can sing!
Tora: I can't sing (laughs). But my voice is just like my dad's voice. Lately, not just my voice, but even my tone of voice is getting similar to his. It makes me think "Gross!".
Is it similar to the point that you wouldn't be able to tell who it is over the phone?
Tora: I don't think you could. Our voices really are similar.
Do you also look like him?
Tora: I don't look like him at all. I'm only similar to him in weird ways, like our poor eyesight or our voices.
So let's get back on track. You didn't give up on song-writing even though you thought that perhaps you weren't suited for it. Since there are other composers, you could have just left the song-writing to them. So why didn't you?
Tora: After doing this for a long time, at first...... This is something I can only say now, but when alicenine. first formed, I didn't feel any enthusiasm from them. I really didn't like that. It was a time when we were just focused on doing live shows to get more fans, even though we hadn't decided on a musical direction. It's not as though we had something that we wanted to do, but we were like "If we just stand on stage and look cool, we'll get more fans, so let's do it". That's a really awful way to put it though. We were doing it with that kind of feeling, so to me, I didn't give a shit about it.
Oh, so thought there was no need to think too deeply about song-writing?
Tora: Rather than a really detailed song, I thought it would be better to write a simple song that would allow us to look cool on stage, and write a song that we could all enjoy. That's the mood I was in back then. But right after that, we joined our previous management company and got influenced by our seniors. We asked how our seniors wrote songs and worked with many producers. I learned of the enjoyment of song-writing. At first, Saga suddenly got a lot better. Don't you get fired up when there's a rival around?
Are you the type of person to work hard when you have a rival?
Tora: I am. When there is such a person around, you can leave it to them. I'm the type of person who wants to find a gap, like "This part right here!".
Hahaha. You're the type who wants to compete not in the main area, but on the side?
Tora: I'm not sure if it's a competition. But for example, it was like this in "UNREAL" too, but lately, I've been playing the synth. It's like I own a synth shop now!
But your main job is guitarist.
Tora: That's right. But I don't even write songs with the guitar. I mean, Saga writes songs with the guitar!
Hahaha. Well, both you and Saga can play more than one instrument. You are similar in terms of that trait.
Tora: I guess. Though there may be people who read this and think "You're a guitarist, so write songs with the guitar", my response to that is "Do you know just how many songs I've written in my life?!". We're not a newbie band, so we can't move forward if we don't write songs in new ways. If you don't do that, you'll end up just writing the same song over and over. I never really had a limit on my capacity, so I try to skillfully expand on that. I think most people who write songs are pretty much like that. I want to avoid writing the same song over and over, as much as possible. It's not always the case that you should make a Part 1 and Part 2 with every song. So my approach is that I would rather dive into an unknown world to write a song, because perhaps I'll be able to write something completely different?
And so now it's like you own a synth shop?
Tora: Yeah, but right now, the shop is virtually empty (laughs). I thought I have no choice but to do this. So lately, I've been really devoted to the synth.
I see. I think that your idea of "Looking for the gaps" is really unique. But why do you think that way?
Tora: Although I'm sure that everyone wants to be the number one hero, I'm not like that at all.
Have you always been like that?
Tora: Yeah, always. I'm fine with being the supporting character. That's why (comparing it to games), I hate weapons that have a "main character" feeling to it, like swords. Or rather than hating it, I don't really like it.
So what do you use to fight then?
Tora: Bows and stuff (laughs). I'm fine with not being the main character. I'm sure that a relatively large number of people in the world want to be a company president, but I don't think that way. I think that I don't want to be the president.
Because being the president would be bothersome?
Tora: Because I'm not suited to stand in the very top position.
When did you become aware of that?
Tora: I get the feeling that it was quite a long time ago, but I've been feeling that way a lot quite recently. I think that it's more fun to be the support. I really think that way when I play Monster Hunter.
Oh, like when you make a party?
Tora: When I was playing with La'cryma Christi's SHUSE, he told me "Tora, you're a real considerate guy" (laughs). "If only everyone was as considerate as you". I didn't think of myself as being a considerate person, but I realised that the stuff I bring along to a battle is a little different from what other people bring. I bring a lot of items for other people.
You mean items used for helping the other members?
Tora: Yeah, because I'd be in a bind if they died. I bring lots of items for such times. I always bring those items with me, and I make sure I don't run out of those items.
Your personality really shows in those areas too. By the way, what are the other members like when you play with them?
Tora: Lately, I've only been playing with Saga, but Saga is unique. He doesn't particularly provide any support to his allies, but he also doesn't charge in by himself. While monitoring the situation, he watches his allies die, and says "Oh, so you died".
Do you not like girls who are not considerate?
Tora: Hmm, it depends on the extent. It's not like I really hate it. But it would be nice if they were considerate. But I think I shouldn't ask of them to be more considerate.
You don't ask of the other person to be considerate just because you are.
Tora: Yeah. In general, I don't really think that I am doing the other person a favour. Rather, I do things thinking that it's quite shameless of me.
Doing support work?
Tora: Yes. Although people might think of it as being shameless, when it's over, I'm like "You guys had fun, right?". I guess that's my stance. "It was fun, right?".
You don't ask for them to give you the same support in return.
Tora: Nope, because I am happy just thinking "I bet right now they thought "What a relief~"!". Although I don't know who I'm playing with when I playing online games, I feel happy imagining things like "Oh, I bet this guy is really happy~" (laughs).
At the supportive spirit is connected to "finding the gaps" within the band.
Tora: I think this is perhaps reflected especially in the videos. In our band, we have a person that can do artwork (Show), and we have a person that can do accounting (Nao). There was no one who knew how to do videos. Regarding songs, I think Saga is A9's main composer.
When did you come to think this way?
Tora: The way Saga puts his feelings into it is amazing. Or rather, his feelings in regards to the song. I lose to him not in terms of whether the final product is good or bad, but in the process.
Is that so?
Tora: Yeah, because there are many times where I feel like I don't put that much feeling into it. Although there are times when Saga brings a song that he is not quite confident in, when he brings a song that he is really confident with, I bow my head in defeat.
So rather than the song quality, what's important is how much feelings and passion is poured into the song.
Tora: That's what I focus on. A song that we can deliver to everyone is only based off the results, and they might think that the process is not at all important. But thinking about it as a creator, the way you pour your feelings into it is really important. Although a person's feelings towards their piece of work is not something that can be seen and communicated to everyone, I think that at least to my members, who are closest to me, I have to be considerate of that.
So if there is someone who pours their feelings into it as a creator, then you don't mind being a supporting character?
Tora: If I leave things to Saga, who puts the most feeling into it, there are times when he decides that my songs would be better, and decides on my song as the lead song. I leave that all to him.
You don't contend for the lead song.
Tora: I secretly contend for it.
What?! Do you have such feelings?
Tora: Yes, secretly (laughs). But 80% of the time, it's Saga.
For the main song composing. So you contend over the remaining 20%.
Tora: (Quietly) More or less. Well, songs are a difficult thing.
But isn't it only because you are confident that you can make something that Saga cannot make that you contend over this part?
Tora: Hmm...... Oh, I guess. But when it comes to songs, there is no right answer. Saga's personality is one that wants to get close to the correct answer, but I want to go based on instinct. There definitely is that difference.
I think perhaps what made you realise that in the empty spaces in the band, the use of synth was possible, was when you wrote "KID". And then due to "UNDEAD PARTY", which features the synth even more, the A9 members have come to be able to put on the kind of performance where they set down their instruments to sing and dance. What do you think of that, Tora?
Tora: I bet people think it would have been better if we could have done that kind of thing when we were younger.
Did you want to do that kind of thing when you were younger?
Tora: No, not at all. In general, I don't want to stand out, so I don't like such flashy things.
Is that so?
Tora: I mean, can't you tell from this interview? No matter how you frame it, I'm a nerd! My general style is that of a nerd. Well, I do think we can only do that kind of thing now that we're older. In general, I'm someone who doesn't want to do anything. So when alicenine. had formed, I thought that Saga was standing in a good position, and for the first few lives, I was standing where he stands now. In general, I don't want to come to the front, and I didn't even want to talk. I just wanted to write songs, practice the guitar, and focus on doing the things I wanted to do. I thought all I had to was live my life while immersed in the things that I liked, but the world was not so kind (laughs). In the end, I had to talk and stuff (laughs).
You are responsible for the talking in A9.
Tora: Yes. I also hate having my photo taken. I've never liked it. I have complexes, or rather, I don't like the way I look, so I really don't want to be in the same shot as everyone. I hated it so much that at first, I stressed over it. That's why not once have I checked the photos taken of me. Because if I saw it, I would probably reject all of them.
So do you also dislike seeing yourself in video?
Tora: If I really start looking into the details, I'll really end up not liking it, so I just casually look at it.
Why do you have this complex?
Tora: I don't know. Everyone posts lots of selfies on Twitter and stuff, but I don't really like that. I sometimes force myself to post selfies though.
So does that mean you also don't like standing on stage?
Tora: No, it's not to the point where I don't want to stand on stage. Oddly enough. I get the feeling that I'm different when I stand on stage.
So it's not like you're forcing yourself to smile and look like you're enjoying yourself.
Tora: Yeah. That's because when I try to make everyone have a good time, there is a response (from the audience), which makes me glad.
So you are confident when you are playing the guitar?
Tora: That's a tough one (laughs). I want to act like I am full of confidence, but it doesn't go so well.
What is the thing you can show us that you're the most confident in?
Tora: Monster Hunter, I guess.
Haha. So I would like to ask about your activities from here on. As a creator, regarding videography--
Tora: Of course, I'd like to keep going with it.
What kind of song do you want to write as a song composer?
Tora: In general, I want to write songs where you can see what it will be like played live. Because I don't think that my role is to simply write "good songs". Songs that are written when we are missing a song for album, or a coupling song on a single. Although there is still the chance that I happen to write a song and that I think is a really good one.
At such times, do you try and push for the song to be the lead song?
Tora: I definitely don't. Usually, I'm silent during meetings. To begin with, my ego isn't so strong. I'm the one with A9 with the weakest ego.
That is the exact opposite of your appearance.
Tora: But if there's not even one such person, you can't clear the mission. Even if I were to say that I'm the one attacking the most, people will just say to me "Then go do it by yourself", and I'll either die or it will be too bothersome to clear the mission. It's better if we all go together!
It's the kind of personality that's necessary in a group.
Tora: I'm the kind of guy that you should have one of in your team (laughs).
Looking back on A9's activities in 2016, they showed us a cool world view through their 2nd EP "LIGHT AND DARKNESS", which was released this Spring, and also showed us a fiery live performance comprised of only songs from the band's 1st year at their 12th anniversary show on August 28th. Here and there, you can hear some people worrying about them, asking "Are A9 lost?". As they progress with activities, there is surely no mistaking that their approach and their feelings towards music have changed. Here, we will going along the timeline of events in 2016, and explore Saga's emotions at the time. As we do so, perhaps we can naturally start to see the future that A9 is heading towards.
It was a little unexpected. Since you and Ryosuke are pretty much from the same generation of bands, I thought that perhaps you have had a proper conversation with him before.
Saga: It was unexpected... Despite the fact that we had known of each other quite a lot from 12 years ago. It feels like we were finally able to interact at this point in time. I think that perhaps we were able to talk like this because we have both been in the business for 10 years, have our own thoughts, and have both experienced many things. It made me want to do even more fun things with him. I really thought that it would be nice if we could do something big together.
And on top of that, both of you have this common theme of "returning to your roots". Oddly enough, both bands are in the same mode.
Saga: That's right.
Since Lolita23q are resuming band activities, you can understand why that would be the case for them. But why is A9 in that mode now? I would like to find the answer to that while reviewing this exciting year.
Saga: Sure.
First of all, I think that this was a year where A9 participated in many event lives, something that was not seen until now.
Saga: That's right. To go in chronological order, we first did a 2-man show with Plastic Tree. We had played with Plastic Tree before on an NHK TV show, but it was our first time playing a 2-man show with them, so it was profound. Plastic Tree have had a long career, and when we had started our band, there were many other bands that had been influenced by Plastic Tree's sound. Even members from the band I was in before A9 were influenced by Akira Nakayama's guitar playing. Of course, I also listened to their songs. So I played on stage while thinking about how deeply emotional it is to play a 2-man show with such seniors. Also, actually having met them, they were really friendly people, and will tell you anything if you ask them.
That's right.
Saga: And after the live that day, we also went celebrating afterwards, which is a rare thing, and even talked about our personal lives (laughs). I thought that they were really great older brothers. Of course, I really learned a lot from the way they presented their live show. I was really stimulated, like on how to make an impression at live events or how to use curve balls. And above all, I thought it was amazing that they have always been consistent with their unique world view for a long time now.
That's right. Not only did you play with senior figures in the industry, you also played at events of younger bands.
Saga: The event we played at for another magazine, Cure, at Shinkiba Studio COAST, was during the A9 Tour 2016 "TRUTH IN LIGHT AND DARKNESS". Around that time, we had a killer schedule (laughs).
You also played at "Nico Viju LIVE" at Makuhari Messe on the same day, right?
Saga: Right. We played at two events on the same day (laughs). On top of that, the day before, A9 had a solo live show in Kooriyama. So we arrived at Makuhari in the middle of the night to do a sound check, then went back to the hotel to shower, had a nap, and played live at Makuhari Messe during the day. Then we went to Shinkiba to play at the event. Right after that, we headed for Kanazawa because we were playing a solo show the day after.
That is a chaotic schedule (laughs).
Saga: It was chaotic. But even though we were pushing ourselves, I am glad that we did it. Although a majority of the bands playing at "Cure" are our juniors, there were many cool bands. The feeling that we were out of place there was amazing (laughs).
Out of place?
Saga: How should I put it... All of the bands were hitting hard (laughs). They're all young, they were wearing enamel costumes, they had feathers attached to their costumes, and they were wearing really heavy make-up. Naturally, the kind of audience there was completely different. And then there was me, who went out to play on stage wearing a simple t-shirt... It was like "Sorry for being out of place" (laughs).
(laughs).
Saga: That was the kind of feeling (laughs). But at the same time, I was really curious about how we appeared in the eyes of fans from the younger generation.
Were you worried that even if you played at an event with young bands, A9 wouldn't be accepted?
Saga: To be honest, I was. But once we started playing, they actually grooved along. How should I put it... the mood at the venue was that they would groove along simply if the live was good, or rather, they had a good feel for what good sounds were. It did made me think that if the live show is a good one, you will get a reaction right away, and that there was a good response. When you have been watching lives for a long time, you have the tendency to watch bands that you are seeing for the first time calmly. You think "That groove is something new". It actually made me feel that I wanted to win over the fans of the young bands.
What was the song that got the biggest response and feedback that day?
Saga: "Yami ni Chiru Sakura", a song from the band's early days. From the line-up of performers playing at the event, we guessed what the mood of the venue would be. When we played it as our first song, people really got into it. I had a lot of fun once I saw the reaction from the crowd (smiles).
Like "We guessed it right!"
Saga: Like "This is going exactly as planned" (laughs).
So then in July, you had a 2-man show with Takuto Nakajima. Speaking of him--
Saga: It goes without saying that he is good at singing and his live performance was cool. What left the biggest impression on me from that event was his advice.
What did he say to you?
Saga: What made me go, "Oh, you're right!", was when he said to us "Not flattering the fans is also important". He said "Sometimes, it's also important to just leave the fans behind, express yourselves, and make it a point to not align with them". I thought "Oh, I see".
Did you ever have such thoughts?
Saga: No. Because lately, we have been conscious of doing things like going together with the fans, or taking the fans somewhere, or doing a live show looking at the faces of the audience members. But I only realized that I didn't have that kind of feeling only until Takuto had given us that advice. Also, he was very persuasive, because it was Takuto, who has had a career of continually bringing good songs to fans.
That's right.
Saga: Although at this point in time, it is quite difficult for A9 to directly adopt his advice... Somehow, his advice has always stuck with me. I've been thinking about where to make use of that advice going forward. That approach is alo important.
That's true. Then in Summer of this year, you also participated in V-NATION at Yoyogi National Gymnasium Second Gymnasium. Wasn't the line-up this year a little different from that of last year?
Saga: Right. This year, there were more of our senior bands.
Were there interactions between the bands backstage?
Saga: Yes, because Hiroto is a puppy. He just goes wherever he wants (laughs). Hiroto himself is actually Mogu (name of Hiroto's pet dog) (laughs).
Puahaha. He is certainly like a pet dog...
Saga: If I had to say, he has no concept of national borders (laughs), and he just goes wherever he wants. If I had to say, it's like every band we play with is his owner, and he just goes wherever while wagging his tail (laughs).
You better put a leash on him (laughs)!
Saga: No, we purposely let him run wild (laughs). It's like if leave Hiroto like that, A9's diplomatic relations will be fine (laughs). I'm the exact opposite of him, so I'm just like "Go and do what you're best at!" (laughs).
You'll make full use of his adorable younger brother (puppy) character (laughs).
Saga: On top of that, Hiroto himself knows what his special characteristics are (laughs). Like "I'm a dog. No matter where I go, people will fawn over me" (laughs). Unlike Mogu, he acts like this fully aware of the fact. How scary~ (laughs).
(laughs).
Saga: Because of Hiroto's character, whenever we play at events, we get more acquaintances. It was the same this time too.
Also, at a men's beauty event in Kobe, you played with your former brothers, D=OUT.
Saga: The last time we met D=OUT was when we were still in the same management company, so it had been a while since we last saw them, but they seemed happy. They had just gone independent too, and said they were working hard. We talked about many things in the dressing room. Real talk (laughs).
(laughs). Then in Autumn, you participating in "PARTY ZOO~Ken Entwines Naughty Stars~".
Saga: This really was an event tour full with the feeling that we were a family.
Even during the live performance, you played together on stage.
Saga: We were family on stage, family in the dressing room, and even until the post-show celebrations were over, we were family (laughs).
Did you celebrate after every show?
Saga: It was a must.
Didn't your generation also have post-live celebrations?
Saga: We did, but barely. Our generation is where there are traces of that. So our generation ended that custom (laughs). So we were brought back into those times (laughs).
(laughs). But it was fun, right?
Saga: Yes, the post-live celebrations for PARTY ZOO was. The day after the event in Kobe was the day of PARTY ZOO in Osaka. The second we arrived in Osaka, we got a message asking "Are you in Osaka?". When we responded "We're here", the next message we got was "Let's drink" (laughs).
The day before PARTY ZOO?
Saga: Yeah. When we said "But tomorrow is the day of the live...", they responded "So then let's drink!" (laughs).
That doesn't make sense (laughs).
Saga: So I ended up drinking until 4 in the morning and got a hangover (laughs). The craziest person there was SID's Aki (laughs). At the celebrations, he would always say "We're drinking until morning!" (laughs). Well, I like drinking, so I did drink with him until morning (laughs). And as one would expect, I got a hangover (laughs). But the event itself was very good.
You guys were wasted on stage. You got the order wrong (laughs).
Saga: (laughs). Even rehearsals for PARTY ZOO was fun. Even during dress rehearsals, Ken was there, and he gave us plenty of advice on our sounds and our playing. However... during dress rehearsals, I really didn't like how we was holding himself back while playing at a really low volume from behind my amp (laughs). I was like "Can that Ken (from L'Arc~en~Ciel) not act like a roadie? It makes me even more self-conscious" (laughs).
(laughs).
Saga: But Ken was really nice. Or rather, he was like an older brother. He gave us plenty of advice, like his impression of A9, or his thoughts on our live performance, and how to present our band. I was deeply moved, like "He is giving us all this advice while looking at all these things. Amazing!".
He is a very detailed person.
Saga: He is. To us, Ken is someone you see on TV, he is someone above the clouds. So we are extremely grateful that he gave us very detailed advice. To the point I want to make a book out of his advice (laughs).
Let's do that (laughs).
Saga: Also, I was allowed to play in a session band with Ken, and Ken also played with A9, and this was a wonderful experience. I was really moved at the fact that Ken joined us on stage to play "Hana" on the first day a Toyosu PIT. Also, the crowd there watched every band, and the event itself really went off. BAROQUE also said that since PARTY ZOO, more people have been coming to their shows.
That's what I heard.
Saga: I think that that's perhaps because the bands playing there were motivated by that light that is Ken, and we had a new kind of charm brought out. In that kind of venue, I think we were also able to show even more of the strength that we have.
Were you also a little bit interested in the band Made in Asia, who was a little bit different from the other bands playing?
Saga: That band was awesome, right?
They were.
Saga: On top of that, we played right after them. I wanted them to change the playing order (laughs). Also, Made in Asia's playing time changed depending on the day (laughs). Since each time it's a session performance. I was told this in advance. Like "Depending on the day, the length of our songs changes with our mood. Sorry" (laughs). When they told us that, I was like "Oh, that's something new!" (laughs).
And when the live show was over--
Saga: Having post-live celebrations was a must (laughs).
Were there lots of dirty jokes being told (laughs)?
Saga: We were actually having quite heated and serious talks about music. That was actually quite refreshing. We were drunk off our faces and joking around, but what we were talking about was music (laughs).
Can you joke around when talking about music?
Saga: That was the weird thing (laughs). They were like "My bass is shining. Yay!" (laughs). That was actually funny.
That was surely Ken's way of setting the mood...
Saga: That's right. Even when drinking, Ken had completely set the mood. When I got drunk, I even came clean with MUCC's Miya and said "I don't want to play with MUCC. Never. Because they're so cool" (laughs). It really was fun being able to communicate beyond the boundaries of junior and senior, and it was only possible because of Ken.
Many session bands played at the event, and you participated in many session bands too, didn't you?
Saga: Yes. Together with MUCC'S Tatsuro, we played The Blue Hearts' "TRAIN-TRAIN", and at the PARTY ZOO After Party, I played X's "Kurenai" with Miya. Even though at first, I heard we would only play "Kurenai", right before the show, he said to me "We're also playing "X"". I was like "Huh?" (laughs). I was like "I know the song, but still... We're on soon, crap...", and so we played it without having rehearsed it. And this was a 4 in the morning (laughs).
(laughs).
Saga: We played it without having rehearsed it, and while drunk (laughs). Well, that included, it was fun (laughs).
Was it as if you were kind of playing at a school festival?
Saga: That's right. It kind of took me back to the days when I was a student. But since Ken was there, I wasn't able to completely go back to being a student. It was as strange feeling (laughs).
Seeing it was a crazy tour both on and off stage... it's only natural that we would hear people here and there saying they were missing PARTY ZOO when it was over.
Saga: As expected, we felt a little sad after it was over...... Having done the tour, I severely feel that it was a good event. And that I wanted to play more.
There never was such a fun event tour before.
Saga: It was fun, but to a certain extent, it was tough. But every day on tour, I was hungover (laughs). The dressing room was also always in an uproar, and it really was like a zoo. In terms of whether it was tough or not, it was tough (laughs).
(laughs) And then in Autumn this year, you also played at the "Visual Festival 2016" in Osaka.
Saga: This was our first time playing here, but I heard it was an event that has been running every year for quite a long time. I like "Oh really?". Since playing at the event in Spring with the young bands, there was this feeling in the band that we wanted to play at more events that that young generation of bands played in too. Our outfits on this day were the ones we wore at our 12th anniversary live on August 28th, and not just a t-shirt (laughs).
And you also played at "VISUAL JAPAN SUMMIT 2016", what could be called the biggest Visual-kei event of this year.
Saga: Originally, Hiroto had been a live support member for X-JAPAN's Toshi, and I also heard that he was on good terms with SUGIZO from the guitarist meeting. Although it was our first time meeting them as a whole band, we were allowed to play at the event.
Quite a lot of big names were playing at the event. Were you scared?
Saga: Of course I was, but on the day, there was a message from YOSHIKI, saying "A member from KISS is also here, so we can't show him a lame live. Please do your best". That was where we got the first blow (laughs).
(laughs) You performed quite early in the day, didn't you?
Saga: We were the first act to perform on the main stage.
Like, "We're going to warm up the crowd for our seniors".
Saga: That's exactly what it was like (laughs). It was in the afternoon and still quite bright outside, and it was a really long event, so when the timetable was announced, we had imagined that there still probably wouldn't be that many people there yet when it was our turn to play. But when we actually went on stage, there were already over 10,000 people there. I thought "Whoa, what is this? It feels like we're playing a stadium. And it's only midday too". There wasn't any rehearsals and we couldn't do a sound check either. There were so many causes for concern, but it was like "We have no choice but to do this!".
So how was it?
Saga: It was really fun. If I remember correctly, GLAY and X JAPAN were going to play after us on the main stage, and many of their fans were there, I think. But people who clearly were not our fans watched our performance, and they even jumped along with us when we asked them to. I was really glad.
It must have been incredible to see such a large venue full of people responding to you.
Saga: That goes without saying. I think it might have even be the first time for A9 to give a live performance in front of that many people, in terms of the size of the crowd. At Budokan, it is 360 degrees, and you get the feeling that you are surrounded, but at Makuhari Messe, it's like a sea of people spread out in front of you. It's a feeling we've never experienced before in the live performances we had done up until then.
Did it feel good playing at a large venue?
Saga: As one would expect, it did. Because there was a song that really shone for the first time in such a large venue as that.
And that song is?
Saga: Actually, we have many songs that were written with the image of it being played in a wide, open space. So when we decided to bring out "the beautiful name", which is a song that we haven't been able to play recently, I was moved, like "Yes, it has this kind of feeling". I was kind of moved, being able to play a song that was written imagining a wide, open area in a wide, open venue.
Even though it was an event, did experiencing such a large venue make you want to play at Nippon Budokan again?
Saga: That's right, I do want to play there again... Because we are in the mode where the band, in its 12th year, has reset it music activities too, and with the feelings we had when we first formed the band, are running towards a new goal. I talked about it briefly in the talk session earlier, but since the show on August 28th, where we celebrated our 12th year anniversary, it feels like we have started a new term. We want to do our activities aiming for a new goal... Personally, I think it doesn't matter what the goal is, but I think that a goal that is easy to understand, like Nippon Budokan, would be better.
But you have already played a solo show at Budokan, right?
Saga: Yes, once. But the show had this strong feeling that our previous company was allowing us to play there. Rather than it being like "Yay! We played live at Nippon Budokan!", the feeling that we were allowed to play there is stronger. That's why next time, we want to play there with our own strength. So now, we are running forward again towards that goal.
And that is another kind of returning to your roots, which came up in the talk session.
Saga: That's right. Returning to our roots is A9's theme since the live show on August 28th. To provide additional information on what I talked about in the talk session, when the band name had changed to A9, we thought about changing our image a little and to do the kind of music we've never done before, and that resulted in us releasing our 2nd EP "LIGHT AND DARKNESS" in Spring of this year. So as a result of various discussions, we tried making an EP that had black music and R&B elements in it, and adopting non-distorted guitar cutting.
It is a really refined release.
Saga: As you rightly say, as a result, it ended up being a really stylish release. For the band, it was an album that was made with a new musical approach, and I am glad that we were able to make such a release.
And the shows on the tour for this release was comprised of two parts, with the first part of the show was focused around the new release, and you performed facing each other, as if it were a jam session. In the second part of the live, it was more like the regular way A9 presented themselves. I watched the show thinking that it had very strong experimental elements.
Saga: Yes... For the band, it was a very experimental live tour. To make the decision to actually do that kind of live show required courage, as one would expect. But we don't have that feeling whatsoever right now.
Even though you took the time to create that kind of world?
Saga: Everything was reset at the 12th anniversary live. How should I put it... We have this path that we have continued to walk down for 12 years. It's a path we walked along always doing trial and error and experimenting.
Yes.
Saga: So in light of that, when we thought about what we should do next, the only musical approach that we could come up with was like that of you see in "LIGHT AND DARKNESS" of this Spring. Rather than saying that we chose this direction from a variety of musical directions, it was more like we had no choice but to go in that direction. But as expected... by doing an experimental live show on the Spring tour, where the show was comprised of two parts, all the feedback that we got from different points of views were all over the place, such as with what kind of thoughts the audience was watching us with, or what it was they wanted from us, or some of our seniors saying to us "Isn't A9 this kind of band?".
There was a mixed reception.
Saga: For better or for worse, there was a variety of opinions. Also, we had played at many events this year, so we had many opportunities to consider once again what kind of band A9 is. Of course, there are things that we want to do and ways we want to present ourselves, but there is also the A9 that the fans want to see, as well as the A9 that our seniors advise us to be like... To be honest, that became a very difficult thing for us (awkward smile). As we listened to the varying opinions, we were confused about what exactly A9 should do.
Just going back to the Spring tour, after playing the first show, did you have this feeling like "Huh? This is kind of weird?".
Saga: We did. I was like "Huh?".
Certainly, during the post-live celebrations, you all had these blank faces.
Saga: Yeah... At the time, we didn't know if A9 could pull off what we wanted to do. How should I put it... For example, we had this kind of concern that perhaps the feeling was similar to that of someone who liked metal to force themselves to play fusion music. We racked our brains over this. To be honest, we played each show on the tour while still being lost.
Personally, I was watching the show quite closely, thinking it was an important thing for a band of this stature to play this kind of music and sounds.
Saga: Oh, is that so? But this led us to "completely starting from scratch".
"Completely starting from scratch"?
Saga: Up until now, we always did our activities while thinking "We did this last time, so let's do this next time". In other words, we considered our next approach in light of our past. In terms of both visuals and sounds. That is how we arrived at this point. But we decided to reset all of those restrictions and restraints at the live on August 28th at Shinkiba Studio Coast.
It was announced at final of the Spring tour that the anniversary live on August 28th would have the concept of 2004 - 2005. Were you able to hear the loud cheers from the dressing room?
Saga: We did. The way it was announced, from a fan's point of view, they would be like "Are they going back to that time?".
Was the decision to return to your roots perhaps related to the feedback you got from the Spring tour...?
Saga: No, it wasn't because of the Spring tour, but it was decided since before then. I was the one who said that we should do this kind of thing for our 12th anniversary live. That is why we decided to do everything we wanted to do on the Spring tour. We thought to clear away our past and return to the time when we first formed the band. We thought that it would probably make the fans happy, and the people watching would surely find it interesting. Since every anniversary live, we kind of play our greatest hits, we thought that we shouldn't just have a repeat of that. So we tried putting on a live show comprised only of the songs that we had written in our first year. And when we did it, it was really amazing, both the reaction of the audience, and for me too.
For yourselves too.
Saga: I discovered many things. Actually, we pretty much don't play those songs at live shows these days. Even if we did, it would only be about the same five songs. So when we played all of those songs for the first time in a while, of course they were different from our more recent songs, but the songs didn't feel old.
I see.
Saga: Thinking about it, it's not like those songs were composed with the thought "Since we have already done this kind of song in the past, this time, let's make it this kind of song". I think that is a big difference from the way we have been writing songs recently. We had put what we were thinking as is into the song. But along with carving out the band's history, we kept on writing songs where we had adjusted the band's course while comparing it to the past, like "It was like this in the past, so we should do it like this now", or "Let's do this, because this is how people view our band", or "This song was too aggressive, so let's do this".
So you wouldn't write similar songs or you were moving towards improvement.
Saga: Right. But now, where it feels like we've come full circle writing songs in that way, I want that feeling that we had at that time.
To compare the song-writing method you had used over the last 12 years to a box of 12 coloured pencils, when you had used your favourite colours while trying not to use the same colour twice, all that was left over was the grey pencil, which is the hardest to use. And what you drew with that grey pencil was "LIGHT AND DARKNESS".
Saga: It really is like that. Like "This is the only colour we have left".
So now that you have used all 12 colours, are you putting the coloured pencils away and going to draw with the drawing tools that you want to use?
Saga: That is the point we have reached. Doing the Spring tour and then doing the 12th anniversary live with only songs from the band's early days. To me, it's all connected. To put it another way, it actually feels like we have come full circle. Putting aside the variety of views that people have about us, we'll start again from scratch to write songs without thinking about the past and not being self-conscious. We'll put our thoughts into the songs as they are. I noticed that if we were to write songs in that way without any restrictions, when we give form to the things we want to do, perhaps we will see the real A9.
Oh, I see.
Saga: Having starting over from scratch and going back to the same feeling we had in our early days, we're currently writing new songs. And it's almost strange that we are writing good songs one after the other. So now, I really do think it was a good thing that we did that live. Now, before even knowing it, we have welcomed our 12th year anniversary, and it really feels like we have truly gone independent. At the same time, I was also in the state of mind where musically too, we went back to the start.
And that from here on, you're going to build up a new history.
Saga: That's right.
So now that you have come full circle to start from scratch, which direction will A9 go in now?
Saga: Hmm... I can't say anything just yet, but I am proud of the song that we are writing now and will release next. There are no experimental elements whatsoever, and it captures everything that A9 is right now. We already know what we want to do next, and we are writing songs to our heart's content. There are no out-of-bounds areas this time. Nothing like "This aggressive beat is not allowed".
So if the members all write their own songs, is it possible that songs with varied tastes will be chosen?
Saga: That is possible. But thinking about it, that's what it was like in our early years. Originally, we all roughly wrote the same number of songs. When we were writing an album, Hiroto, Tora, and myself would write three songs each, and then Show would write one song. Over the last few years, I ended up writing more songs. So I want everyone to write a lot of songs to get the balance that we had back then. Up until now, all we used to think about was if we could express ourselves with a different approach, or if we could draw out a different kind of charm.
Perhaps by doing so, you were able to find some originality?
Saga: Maybe. But I believe that going through to the very end with the things that suit you and the things that only you can do become your individuality, and they become something that can't be so easily imitated by others.
That's true.
Saga: I think that by going through to the very end of it, it becomes something that sets you apart, and that it naturally turns into your individuality. So I think that doing what suits you and seeing it through to the very end is perhaps very important. This is what I strongly feel, as I work on A9's new songs.
Be it clothing or anything else, there are things that suit you and things that don't. There are clothes that fit Saga's slender figure, and if a band from another genre with a nice body were to put on A9's clothes, it might not suit them.
Saga: I think it goes both ways. Doing the things that suit you ultimately leads to it being your individuality.
All that being said, I think at the core of A9 is something beautiful. I don't think there is a need to go out of your way to destroy that. Because that's your individuality. I think that all you need to do is just stand their naturally.
Saga: In terms of the band, that is exactly the kind of thing we talked about. Now that we are in our third year since becoming A9, we should wear the clothes that we feel are just right, and to make the sounds that we want to make the most. That's the mode we are in now.
I am looking forward to the next release. So you are right in the middle of song-writing for that release. Personally, for the song-writing, do you refer to any of the experimentation you did with "THE ALTERNATIVE", the project you do with Nao?
Saga: I do.
I watched one of the shows, and I was surprised. You're good at singing (laughs).
Saga: (laughs) Well, as expected, singing is difficult. I also talked about it in the talk session earlier, but originally, I had liked composing songs, and I aspired to be a singer-songwriter. It was a normal thing for me to listen to Masashi Sada or Miyuki Nakajima CDs, which was what my mum had listened to. What made me want to play the guitar and compose songs and sing them was that it was how I was introduced to music itself. To put in modern terms, I looked up to the singer-songwriters that are like Motohiro Hata. But when I was in middle school, I was poisoned by that thrilling thing called bands. So I dyed my hair, and even my soul was dyed with rock music (laughs).
(laughs).
Saga: So I had made this huge misstep in my life (laughs), but originally, that was what had introduced me to music. I had played the guitar, sang, and wrote songs at home. Actually, I only write songs that I can sing.
There are many occasions where guitarists write songs starting with a cool riff, right?
Saga: That's exactly right. The way I write songs is different from that. Our guitarists write songs with riffs as the main thing. But for me, I won't hand the song over to Show if it's a song that I myself cannot sing. I think that it's because I write songs like that while singing along to them at home, I've naturally come to be able to use my voice. Probably (laughs).
No, no, it's not about being able to make sounds or not. It's about your nuances and that it feels like you've mastered singing. You're not like most bassists (laughs).
Saga: (laughs) As a person who has written the song, when I am communicating to Show the nuances, I also sing it to him, like "Do it like this".
Now, it seems that rather than being a bassist, you're more like an multi-instrumentalist. Why are you so greedy when it comes to music?
Saga: The first instrument I played was the guitar, and at the time, I wanted to form a band as a guitarist. But people told me that they didn't need a guitarist. Thinking that I'll never be able to be in a band at this rate, I had no choice but to become a bassist (laughs).
What?
Saga: But because of that, I was able to form a band, and now I am able to do activities as A9. So it's not as though I wanted to become a bassist, and I'm not so fussy when it comes to the bass. Regarding the keyboard, I learned it because it felt like it was necessary, so now, I can play it a little. I think that coming into contact with instruments and being able to play them to a certain extent is actually extremely important in writing or arranging songs. What I mean is that you can write songs looking at the band as a whole.
I see.
Saga: For example, if all you can do is play the guitar, you can only use the guitar to write a song with all your playing habits, and for the parts other than the guitar, you have to imagine it and write the song that way. But if you were to come into contact with all instruments, you'll be able to write a song with more dimension. Even with the drums, I actually try playing it myself, and I write the song with the image of me playing it. The same goes for singing too. I think that in that respect, it's a good thing to do. However, I also do think that writing a song without knowing about any other instruments apart from your own is good in its own way.
What do you mean?
Saga: For example, when there is a kind of bass phrase that I myself would not have thought up of in the songs written by the other members, there are times when I think "Oh" This is new", and get motivated that way.
Are there times where you go "I can't play this"?
Saga: There are such times too. But I think that is still good in its own way. So it's more than okay for different people to have different approaches to writing songs. It's just that I'm the type of person who wants to know about every instrument. With regards to sounds, I've come to be fussy about the cleanliness of it, or rather, I am getting more particular about it... I want to create a demo that is perfect, in my own way. From there, while listening to the member's opinions, I start tearing it down.
So adding Hiroto and Tora's guitar and Nao's drumming to the completed demo that you made, you get A9's sound.
Saga: That's right.
Hiroto seems like a guitar artisan.
Saga: He is a kind of person who lives based on feeling. He is a true guitarist. His heart is also a guitarist (laughs).
I feel like there is some scorn behind those words (laughs).
Saga: It is really difficult, because Hiroto is a free spirit (laughs). How should I put it... If I were to put it in terms of arithmetic, in the 1 + 1 = 2 calculation, he first thinks about the answer only. He is like "A 2 is good here!! But I don't know how we get to the 2". Here, I would teach and explain the process, like "We should add 1 and 1 together here. But making it 2 costs too much, and is a bit too difficult". In the end, the idea gets rejected (laughs).
(laughs).
Saga: Then Nao makes his appearance here. He is very serious when it comes to the drums, but he has always been a very smart and scientific person. Since going independent, he has been enjoying hitting the abacus, in particular. To the point he breaks calculators (laughs).
There you go exaggerating again (laughs).
Saga: I'm serious. He often says "I broke the calculator~" while smiling brightly (laughs). It surely must be because he is hitting it as hard as he hits the drums (laughs).
Then you should talk to him about hitting it with dynamics (laughs). That reminds me, Tora has been working on videos since you went independent.
Saga: He was probably always interested in it. He had originally made the storyboard for the "Shunkashuuto" music video. Actually, the original demo for the song "Shunkashuuto" was something that Tora brought because he wanted to do a song based off the music video. So he has always liked making footage and drawing. So he has been making videos on his computer... But the thing with Tora is if you ask him to do something, he'll do his best to do it, but if you don't tell him anything, he won't do anything (laughs). So it should be fine as long as you keep asking him. Like "Please do this, Tora!!" (laughs).
(laughs) So while leveraging your various characteristics, A9 has returned to their roots, and you are heading towards a new goal.
Saga: That's right. We are writing songs now. It's like as though we are getting ready for an album.
So regarding recent news, you will hold "WHITE Christmas Live with A9 CHANNEL" at Differ Ariake on December 24.
Saga: Just as the title states, in addition to the live, we'll also do a live broadcast for Nico Nico.
That legendary Nico Nico live broadcast will be back (happy)! There are many fans who love it since it was funny.
Saga: Rather than being funny, it was an awful show (laughs). Well, personally, because of that show, I got a lot more fans, and I'm also grateful for the show. Until we did the show, apparently, many fans had the impression of me that I was a cold person who didn't talk much, but on that show, my parent’s house was exposed, and my mum and dad even appeared on the show (laughs).
Your mum was eating quite a lot of pizza (laughs).
Saga: She was (laughs). Tora went to someone else's house without any sort of appointment, and he even took a bath there (laughs). Well, as revenge, I went to his parent’s place (laughs). His mother had even shown us the mandarin gown that Tora used to use as a stage costume (laughs). While saying "Oh, what should I do~♪", she showed us his childhood photos. From Tora's point of view, she must be a terrifying mother (laughs).
I watched that show thinking that he was raised in a good household, like a young master.
Saga: Tora was raised well. Despite being raised so well, he went off the rails hard (laughs).
(laughs).
Saga: Oh, this is just additional information, but on the day of the live, we ask the fans to wear white clothes, if possible, since it's a "WHITE CHRISTMAS". During the tour at the start of the year, "BLACK PERIOD", it will be all black (laughs). We will play for two days at each venue, with one day being a solo show, and the other day being a 2-man live. The solo show will be pitch black (laughs), and I think we will try and mix in some new songs there. For the 2-man show, we asked some young bands that we had met during the the events and festivals we played at this year, so we will be playing with them. While receiving power from the young bands, we will do activities next year remembering that fresh feeling we are starting to forget (laughs).
You're still fine. You aren't losing to the young kids (laughs).
Saga: No, but really, the young bands these days are really good and put on quite good performances. They are quite formidable. We were really trembling, like "They are so much better than our generation...".
All you can do is not worry about the senior-junior relationship and go all out.
Saga: That's right. So we have the tour that we announced, and there are still some things we haven't been able to announce yet... So I am really looking forward to next year. Or rather, I am really confident in the A9 of next year. I don't think we will stray from our core activities. We were a little flustered this year, though, taking on many challenges, doing trial and error, getting lost, and appearing at many events, which was a first for us. But as we received many opinions and advice, while referencing that, the answer that we came up with on our own is to "return to our roots".
That's right.
Saga: Although it's not manifested yet, we ourselves have a clear understanding of what A9 wants to do, both in terms of activities and sound. So we're not lost anymore, and we're going to move forward.
Fans should be able to relax and go along with you.
Saga: Right. Continuing on from participating in many events this year, we would like to interact with many bands next year too. Since I've been given the opportunity to talk with Ryosuke today, it would surely be fun if we could do something together... I can't wait, even though it will happen next year.
Motto2 vol. 20 Saga (A9) x Ryosuke (Lolita23q) Interview
Photo credit: Fantasy Alice9
Despite there not being that much interaction between them to date, in actuality, Saga and Ryosuke knew of each other since over 10 years ago. Hearing them talk, in addition to having things in common such as both being bassists and composers, it appears they have many things they agree on, and they hit it off! At this rate, it appears that in 2017, both A9, who have returned to their roots, and Lolita23q, who have resumed band activities, will do something interesting...!!
Saga: I've known of Ryosuke for quite a long time ago.
Ryosuke: I've also known about Saga for a long time. Before A9 had started, I was in the vocalist Show's session band and I've also been their roadie. I've known Saga since he was in Delta Ark...
Saga: That's such a long time ago! (laughs)
Ryosuke: From the time there was that compilation album "HYSTERIC MEDIA ZONE 5"...
Saga: That's super old!! (laughs)
Ryosuke: But today is the first time actually having a proper talk with him.
Saga: Right. We've never had a proper chat since meeting each other, but I've been hearing things about Ryosuke from Show for a long time now. Like "He's a really good kid, has really good manners and is amazing at the bass too. He's a skilled kid".
Ryosuke: No, no. That's too kind (laughs).
Saga: Oh, my bad for calling you a kid (laughs).
Ryosuke: I'm the junior here, so that's completely fine. And also because I respect my seniors who are moving ahead.
Saga: Huh? When did you guys form again?
Ryosuke: Our first live was in November 2004.
Saga: We formed in the Spring of 2004.
Ryosuke: There's less than a year's difference of our current bands, but you also had a career before that... When I played for the first time at a live house, Saga and Show were already playing at Takadanobaba AREA1.
Saga: Memories of those times are starting to come back to me (laughs).
Ryosuke: That's why when Show and Saga formed alicenine., I thought "This is going to be one amazing band". I purposely said their band name from that time.
Saga: But we're pretty much from the same era, so why didn't we meet? We've only played a show with Lolita23q once.
Ryosuke: I think that's because ever since alicenine. formed, they shot straight up.
Saga: No, no, not at all. We joined a management company right after we formed, so there was the fact that we weren't so free to move as we wanted...... But now that we've gone independent, there's none of that anymore and it's easier to get things done. It's like the same goes for today, being able to collaborate with Ryosuke.
Ryosuke: I'm really glad that I can have a chat like this with Saga.
Saga: Although we never interacted in the public sphere, in 2012, when I heard that Lolita23q would go on hiatus, I was sad, as one would expect.
Ryosuke: Really?
Saga: Yeah. But I wasn't suprised. Because I really understand the difficulty in keeping a band going. And when it comes do doing it for over 10 years... right?
Ryosuke: Uh huh.
Saga: I don't know the specifics for you, but when you are active as a band, don't a whole range of obstacles come up? So I did feel that it was sad... but I also felt that it is what it is. That's why when I heard Lolita23q would be making a comeback, I was genuinely happy.
Ryosuke: Thank you very much.
Saga: I also want you guys to show the fans in the current Visual-kei scene who haven't seen Lolita23q before what's what.
Ryosuke: I do hope they come see us.
Saga: Lolita23q had left an impression on me from the very beginning. The impact from their artist photos each time is amazing.
Ryosuke: Yeah... Our lives depend on that.
Saga: BAN adds a nice touch to the band (laughs). He does his own thing. Even in the new artist photos, he does his own thing. That's also amazing.
Ryosuke: He has consistency in how he presents himself. I think that the artist photo up on our website right now is the coolest BAN.
Saga: I also think that the artist photo now is the best, even including all the artist photos in the past. You guys are shining the most right now.
Ryosuke: Really? Thank you very much. I was very particular about the composition, even in the smallest details. After the band went on hiatus, I studied a bit on design, so I made use of all the things I mastered in the artist photos, like proportions and balanced.
Saga: You always looked at things overall and produced the presentation of the band and such, right?
Ryosuke: I wouldn't got so far as to say I produced it, but I wanted to say that ever since back then, I was the main person behind the band's creative side. But in making our comeback, I think that working from behind the scenes is okay. Because I want to contribute the know-how and ideas I have to the band even more than before we went on hiatus.
Saga: You won't say "I'm the one doing it".
Ryosuke: No, I won't. I'd be happy if my work was needed by the people we work with or the members.
Saga: It's like you take a step back to look at things.
Ryosuke: That's right. I'm a band member, but I've also got a position like a kind of director. But I don't even want to say things like that.
Saga: Oh, really?
Ryosuke: I want to avoid giving off this cocky feeling. But I'm actually really interested in things like this.
Saga: You like looking at the overall picture?
Ryosuke: Yes. Or rather, doesn't it happen with our part (= bass)?
Saga: Well, yeah. That's how it ends up being (laughs).
Ryosuke: Right!
Saga: Well, in terms of where you stand in the band, you end up looking around you (laughs).
Ryosuke: It's just as you say. That's why I think that I'm the one who chose the bass.
Saga: But even though you're a bassist, don't you also have solo activities as WING WORKS, where you don't play bass, but instead sing, and produce eveything? By doing things like that, I think that you're a unique person, even in this scene. So what are you thinking when you do your activities? I've always been really curious. Like "I wonder if he is moving while thinking about many things while looking 2 to 3 steps ahead?".
Ryosuke: That's right. When I thought to stop the band the first time, I thought that I couldn't be in a band anymore.
Saga: Like perhaps you couldn't form a band better than Lolita23q?
Ryosuke: There was that, and I'm not denying the stance that the other members took after that2, but at the time, the CEO of the label we were under at that time gave me the advice "The road of music is [One band per lifetime]", and that had always stuck with me.
Saga: Yeah.
Ryosuke: That said, I was thinking about forming a new band at first, but I immediately thought that I couldn't be able to form a band better than Lolita23q. So if that was the case, I thought to do it alone.
Saga: I see.
Ryosuke: That and I really like MIYAVI, so I was influenced by him.
Saga: Oh, really?
Ryosuke: Yes. If I recall correctly, just around the time when Lolita23q went on hiatus and I was wondering whether to do go solo or not, that's when MIYAVI and bobo started their activities in his current style. I bought a ticket and went to see them live, but when he frst started doing his current style, there weren't any people in the audience.
Saga: You bought a ticket?
Ryosuke: Actually, I've been a big fan of his since Due le quartz. Ever since MIYAVI went solo, I've always bought tickets go see his milestone lives. By myself.
Saga: By yourself? Really?!
Ryosuke: Really. Every time I go see him, I always learn something and I think "I'll work hard so I can become like him". When he went solo, didn't -miyavi- always have this vigour when it came to activities? But when he first started the two-person style, there were so few people in audience it would be unimaginable these days. But the things he is doing is clearly progressing even further than what he had done up until then. That was the biggest thing that made me want to become a solo artist.
Saga: I see... So it was his influence. -miyavi- used to be in the same management company as us, so I saw things that were happening back then, and once when he went overseas, he came back as a different person. He would start speaking English out of the blue. At that time, the people arond him had questions marks about him, like "-miyavi-, what's wrong?" and "I don't know what you're trying to do".
Ryosuke: Oh.
Saga: In that kind of mood, he pushed forward on his own path, and pushed completely through... I think that inside of himself, he had discovered something amazing and returned to Japan, and is sticking to what he wants to do, even if under tough circumstances. I think that because he stuck to his guns, he's able to do what he is doing now. I mean, no one else is doing what he does.
Ryosuke: He is a one-of-a-kind of person.
Saga: He may have had a really rough period, the kind that Ryosuke was talking about earlier, but now he is playing solo shows at Makuhari Messe3. You only sing at WING WORKS lives, right?
Ryosuke: Yes. Actually, there are also some of my solo recorded songs that don't have any real bass sounds. I think that a synth bass would work better there. I make clear distinctions there (laughs).
Saga: I think that is perfectly fine to do. If it's not necessary for the song, then there is no need to put it in the song. Often, there are people who say things like "What a traitor", when a bassist puts his bass down and takes up the microphone. I hate those kind of people. It's nonsense.
Ryosuke: Saga, I wish you were there to say that to my fans right after I went solo (laughs).
Saga: (laughs). I mean, Ryosuke is still doing music. What I really understand from this conversation is that he didn't become a musician because he really wants to play the bass. That's not the order of events.
Ryosuke: That is completely true.
Saga: For example, if in your band, you we were to disregard the vocalist and start singing, you might face criticism. But he is doing solo activities prepared to take on the risks and taking responsibility for what he is doing. You are free to express what you want and how you want. Actually, anything goes.
Ryosuke: That's right. Even before that, there was a period where I was DJing, so I had no objections to standing on stage without a bass, and if I had to say which, the music I want to do with WING WORKS has complex basslines, so I thought it was only natural that I devote myself to singing, so I could produce something of high quality. If I had wanted to do punk music, I think I would be singing while playing the bass.
Saga: Yeah.
Ryosuke: But it's just that my roots are not punk music. That's why I made the instant decision of setting down the bass.
Saga: That was probably the obvious answer for you, right?
Ryosuke: It was.
Saga: It just so happens that the way for him to be himself turned out that way. But don't the people watching not know that? The true Ryosuke?
Ryosuke: Well, I've not been able to communicate that well.
Saga: So there is that kind of struggle.
Ryosuke: Yes. By the way, what are your musical roots, Saga?
Saga: My roots... Before I was introduced to the world of bands, I wanted to be a singer-songwriter. Rather than saying I was doing music because I wanted to play the bass, originally, I looked up to people who composed and sang songs. That is where my interest in music began.
Ryosuke: I see!! Why was that the case?
Saga: My mum and dad had CDs at home. Many of them were from their generation, like folk singers, and influential singer-songwriters, like Miyuki Nakajima. As I continued listening to those CDs, I myself wanted to become a person who composed and sang songs. So in order to become a singer-songwriter, I thought I better first learn the guitar, so I tried to learn the guitar. But then when I was in middle school, I saw a videotape of LUNA SEA, and then affected by the poison that is bands (laughs).
Ryosuke: Poison?! (laughs)
Saga: I made the mistake of discovering bands, and I was completely wrecked (laughs).
Ryosuke: The mistake?! (laughs)
Saga: I got on the wrong path of life because of rock music, and now here I am (laughs).
Ryosuke: I understand what you mean (laughs).
Saga: So to make it easier to form a band, I started playing the bass, thinking it the bass would be better... So the biggest part of my roots is the fact I like songs, and that I want to write good songs. Actually, I'm the type of person to not really be fussy about the instrument I play.
Ryosuke: Me too. That I play the bass is just by chance. Or rather, to me, the bass is no more than an output method for me to express myself. When I decided to learn how to play an instrument because I wanted to do music, it just so happened that the bass was the instrument that fit me the best. Actually, there is something that I really wanted to ask Saga.
Saga: What is it?
Ryosuke: Despite the numerous Visual-kei artists out there, there are very few bassists that are in the main composer position. Also, did you also once say that you like U2 and Aerosmith, and your roots are also American music and stadium rock?
Saga: Yes, that's right.
Ryosuke: Did you say that so that the audience could understand your music more deeply?
Saga: That's right. How should I put it... Even if you were to play the music that is your roots in the scene right now, the audience won't understand you well, or rather, the assumption is that the other members are playing your music. Since your musical roots are going through the filter that is the other members, I do wonder if this music is blending well into this scene. For example, by Show singing the songs, that feeling is neutralized well. I think that to have the fans accept this music in this way is also possible.
Ryosuke: The other day, Show had said to me "Since going independent, A9 will first put out music that is highly artistic". I did certainly think that "PRISMATIC" sounded like Maroon 5.
Saga: Yes, yes.
Ryosuke: So now that I've learned about Saga's musical roots, I can understand that. At the same time, I think that it's amazing because music with that perspective and that approach cannot be found anywhere else in the Visual-kei market. You did a tour in Spring for that release, and didn't you also do a live where you returned to yor roots this Summer?
Saga: That's right.
Ryosuke: Looking at A9 from then on, the mode is completely different to when they had made "PRISMATIC". Up until Summer, I guessed that at that rate, you would become the Japanese U2 or Radiohead, and I was looking forward to it. I really, really like "PRISMATIC".
Saga: Thanks (smiles).
Ryosuke: But... So why did you return to your roots? Isn't it only obvious that you could have kept on going in that direction?
Saga: We can, and we could if we wanted to. But... Looking back on our activities over the last 12 years, we had slowly begun to stray off the path and made new music, saying things like "Our last album was like this, so let's make the next one like this". As we were doing that, wouldn't that also mean that people would have this view of us, like "So A9 is this kind of band"? At the same time, we had also built up our own aesthetic; we had our own branding, or rather, there was this idea of what we should be like, or what we wanted to show. So when it came to making music that did not stray from that idea, it was a situation in where the broad scope of song arrangements was getting narrower. Because we made it a point to not use the methods that we had used before.
Ryosuke: I see, I see.
Saga: Having been doing that, when we were in our 12th year, it had felt like we had done all that we could do. We also had a clear understanding of what we were good at and what we weren't good at. So "PRISMATIC" is to A9, the musical approach that we are the worst at, and the thing we avoided the most to date. Just as I had thought, it's the type of song that is the most difficult for Show. "PRISMATIC" is the song we wrote using the last of the last of what we had, which we hadn't used before.
Ryosuke: I see.
Saga: By writing that song, we had nothing left. I had started to think that if I was to make any more music with a new approach, there was no longer a need to do it as A9.
Ryosuke: Is that so....
Saga: As I was thinking this, we ended up doing a live where we returned to our roots. What I thought after doing the live was that the songs we wrote at the time were a pure manifestation of what we were thinking, and we weren't held prisoner to what we had done in the past. Although we didn't have any musical knowledge, though low quality, the songs we wrote then were good. And at the same time, I wondered what it would be like if we wrote songs with that writing style. It made me want to try writing songs in the same way we did 12 years ago. Strictly speaking, although it would be impossible to do exactly the same thing, there are some things that we have picked up over the last 12 years. In particular, after making our major debut, we were in a blessed environment of having famous producers produce our songs, and we learned many things. There were many things that we had learned, having producers such as Hajime Okano, who also produced for L'Arc~en~Ciel, Akira Nishihira, and Satoru Hiraide, who also produced for UVERWORLD, produce our work.
Ryosuke: That is wonderful.
Saga: But at the same time, we also know that there is no correct answer when it comes to music. And depending on the producer, they might say the exact opposite.
Ryosuke: Right.
Saga: But that is something we learned only after having worked with many producers.
Ryosuke: It's like you came full circle in these 12 years.
Saga: Yeah. In the end, it's just a matter of whether it feels good or bad to that person. But it's only because we took the long way and came full circle that I've come to think that I want to value what I like and what I want to do with A9, and that I want to return to our roots, no matter what others may say. In that respect, we might be coming closer to our first releases... I would like to do music in the way we had done back then, without thinking about anything, but with the brain and body that I have now, in its 13th year.
Ryosuke: I see. It's kind of similar the mode that I'm in right now.
Saga: Yes, maybe.
Ryosuke: Now that we are active as Lolita23q once again, we're writing new songs now. There was blank for a few years, and although it does feel like we've gone back in time, I don't think I can be satisfied with just that. Looking at the times now, my feeling is that I want to show the people who have never seen us before something new.
Saga: Yeah. So you start full-scale activities from next year?
Ryosuke: Yes. We will return to our roots with the five official members.
Saga: "Returning to our roots" is a common phrase for Lolita23q and A9 in our 2017 activities.
Ryosuke: That's right. Let's do something together, as two bands that are in the same mode.
Saga: Since both of our bands are aiming for the same vector and have the same mood, it might be interesting if we could do something together. Let's have a party!
Ryosuke: Let's do it!!
Saga: But before that... let's go have a drink together. There's still plenty more that I want to talk about that we don't have time for here (laughs). There are also things that we can't talk about here (laughs).
Ryosuke: Let's do it (laughs)!!
1 A livehouse in Takadanobaba, Tokyo, and one of the "holy places" for Visual-kei bands.
2 After Lolita23q went on hiatus, some of the other members formed other bands.
3 A very large exhibition hall, which holds about 9000 people.
Cure March 2019 Show (A9) x Issei (BugLug) Interview
A9 and BugLug have announced they will hold a nationwide 2-man tour. The tour title is "Noroshi -TOO FAST TO LIVE TOO YOUNG TO DIE-"!! The front cover feature of the first Cure publication of 2019 is a special photoshoot with the vocalists Show and Issei. They will visit a total of 6 cities, starting on March 21 in Fukuoka, then Osaka, Nagoya, Sendai, Sapporo, and Tokyo. Do not miss this big event.
The two bands played together at "Bug Summit" in August last year, but when did you first personally meet each other?
Issei: It was in 2016.
Show: Yes. In 2016 there were talks of doing a 2-man tour together. So the two of us had a meeting to decide on a title, as the band representatives.
What were the sequence of events leading up to doing a 2-man tour?
Show: I originally had this image of BugLug that they were a stylish and good band, and I think at the time they were promoting "Saru". In addition to the feeling that they were different from the rest, even among my band members we talked about them, like "BugLug are pretty awesome" and "I'd like to play with them". Our staff at the time had connections to BugLug's company, and they said "We are more than happy to do it".
Issei: I was really glad when I heard about it. Of course, I had known about the band A9 from a long time ago. I like their songs so I listened to it a lot, and their looks are just plain freaking cool. When I first saw them, my first impression was "What's with their band? They're awesome. They're all charismatic".
I mean, from Issei's point of view, they were a band that were featured in magazines before you had started your band.
Issei: Yes. I had strong feelings of wanting to be successful like them, and after all, people want to play with the bands they like, right? And that's exactly why I thought that we could find value in touring together.
Show: So as we continued talks about the tour, in May, Issei got into an accident1......
Issei: I screwed it up. Despite the offer, we ended up having to forgo it. That's why when we met again at Bug Summit, I felt very apologetic.
Show: When I saw Issei, I thought "Oh, he's able to bleach his hair now!".
Issei: Hahaha! (laughs)
Show: No, but our guitarist (Tora) recently fell into bad health, so I worry, like "What are his limits?". That's why we couldn't send them the offer of a 2-man tour. But I was glad since it seems like the feeling of us wanting to do it got through to the staff we have in common.
Issei: Yes. Now, I thought once again that "I want to do this no matter what". Even after 3 years, that passion never died out.
So it's a 2-man tour that came true after 3 years. By the way, when it was announced that this tour would be happening there was a line in a news article that said both bands "started activities pretty much at the same time". But this year is A9's 15th year anniversary, and BugLug's 10th year anniversary, right?
Issei: Our first live was at the beginning of 2010, so if you count it starting from there, it's our 9th year.
Show: But the band I was in before A9 and the band BugLug’s guitarists and bassist was in before BugLug started pretty much at the same time, and we often played together. We also have this connection where we have a member in our bands that used to be a roadie for Baroque. That's why they don't really feel like our juniors.
So you were acquainted with Kazuki, Yuu and Tsubame from a long time ago?
Show: Well, Tsubame is sociable, so whenever we played together, he would come and talk to us quite often, but it's only recently that I've come to talk to Yuu a lot. Yuu is now addicted to this game I used to be addicted to a while ago, so I thought it would be nice if we could play together.
Issei: We have quite a lot in common other than music.
For example?
Show: For example, both Issei and I are in charge of artwork in our bands. Both of our image resources aren't Visual-kei, but high fashion, paintings, and contemporary art. I like combining the good qualities of such things with the Visual-kei that our seniors have built up, so I am quite critical of things that are like a rehash of past works. But there are times when I think "That's cool" about BugLug. Sometimes I get annoyed, like "Ah, they outdid us".
Issei: Sorry (laughs).
Show: That's the kind of image I had of them before meeting them, and even after talking to them, I can sympathize with the borderless thing they do. However, I liked to interpret art in an animated way to change the format and bring it into Visual-kei, but Issei brings the artwork as it is into Visual-kei.
Issei: That's right.
Show: That is quite a hardline approach. Unlike me, he doesn't add in arranged elements from the grey zone similar to Visual-kei, like anime or cosplay. To keep on trying to strongly bring about a chemical reaction like that requires a lot of courage. I think that is a good stance. And because I sympathise with this attitude despite not even talking to him that much, I feel that we are connected in a good way. In actuality, since this 2-man tour was decided, I've only properly talked to him at one meeting and during the joint photoshoot.
By the way, was the tour title "Noroshi2" the one that was decided back in 2016?
Issei: No. Although we had considered it, we hadn't reached a decision on it. But from the beginning, there was this feeling that if these two bands did something together, perhaps something new would come out from it, so the title was suggested again. On top of that, Show added "TOO FAST TO LIVE TOO YOUNG TO DIE", so it's no mistaking that this is a title the two bands decided on. I think that the real thrill of the this tour will be the bands doing the tour with those words in mind.
Show: The phrase "TOO FAST~" is often used in punk rock, but considering the incident with Issei, the phrase really hits you hard. It's about the the gratitude of merely being able to be in a band, or rather, even if we are living recklessly, it would be better to do what you want to do. I think that both bands have these feelings.
Issei: We do. I feel it quite a lot.
I see. Was the group artist photo artwork done together?
Issei: That's right. We had many ideas at the meeting, and from that, Show followed up with "red".
Show: I photoshopped the photo so it was like a red smoke signal had been fired, and from within that, the ten of us were there! If a person who didn't know us looked at it, they wouldn't be able to tell who is in A9 and who is in BugLug. The one who has the strongest BugLug feeling about him is Hiroto though (laughs).
Issei: Yeah, he does (laughs).
BugLug's outfits are more like suits, and Hiroto's outfit is really similar to that.
Show: And since both Kazuki and Hiroto hang out with Kei (Baroque), they bring out the stoles. I wonder if this is what you cal Kei-ism (laughs).
Issei: During the photoshoot, Show talked to me quite a lot...... I didn't think that Show was such a friendly person. At first I imagined that perhaps he was a prickly person or a scary person, but he talked to me a lot. He is easy to talk to, so I was really glad!
Show: It's not like I am like this with everyone, but even with our juniors, if there is something to get excited over, I want to take that in and talk to them. To be honest, even at 2-man tours, there are also cases where you can't be frank with each other right from the start, so in that respect, I feel quite close to BugLug.
Issei: That really is important, after all.
Well, you did do a photoshoot together, after all. Even with promotion, normally they just place the two separate artist photos next to each other.
Issei: I don't really like that. Since you are playing together, I want to do the photos and promotion from scratch. I think if you don't show the attitude that "these two bands are doing an event together", then it's boring.
So to you, Issei, having a photoshoot with all ten members was a must for you.
Issei: That's right. For me, I'm really glad to be able to do an event with A9, so I want people to learn about us. For example, even to people who aren't interested, I want them to become interested in us using a variety of ways, so I want to take a group photo. Isn't it a waste if we just do a live show together and then that's it? In that respect, the way A9 makes their lives is really interesting. Even at their solo shows, their ideas are really detailed.
Show: Well, there was a period where we had a routine of releasing an album and then going on a one-man tour. To a certain extent, that is something rock bands do, but looking back on that, there were parts that we had stopped thinking about. That's why lately, we have come to perceive A9 as one concept, one piece of intellectual property, and think about how to make use of that. So that's how we come up with ideas like "Do people want to see an A9 live with only headbanging songs?" or "Do people want to see us playing with an orchestra?". That's why with this 2-man tour, we also want our fans to see BugLug, with whom we can sympathize with. So it's like come and see this "smoke signal" attraction that has our seal of approval!
So it's a bit different from the stance of going all out and trying to steal each other's fans.
Show: A band won't be able to last just by doing that.
Issei: I get that. In the past, I used to value that kind of attitude and my stance was to sink my teeth into their other band, but as expected, your approach to things change. This 2-man tour is something that we can't do by ourselves, and can only happen if we do it together, right? Also, because they are around, we are here, so it's no good if we just do this by ourselves, and there is no meaning if A9 just do it by themselves. The ideal is for both bands to do this together.
So what about the other band do you want your fans to see?
Issei: The people who come to shows in the Visual-kei scene just stand their in a daze when it's a song they don't know. It's a waste if they just stand there like a stone statue. So I want our fans to groove along to A9's songs! Because there are a lot of fun songs!
It's certainly true that A9 songs are easy to groove along to. Or rather, the songs are suitable for your body to naturally move along to. What do you want A9 fans to pay attention to in BugLug, Show?
Show: Isn't there a beauty of form in Visual-kei that our seniors have built up? Where they establish the mood, hype you up, and then it goes into the chorus? If the song itself isn't good, it's hard to deviate from that to capture Visual-kei fans with purely melodious songs or hard rock songs. I want our fans to get the essence of what is good about those songs. Also, even if they are watching live shows or video footage, you can see the band doing their best if you open your mind. That is something we really see as important, and I feel that in that respect, the roots of both bands are the same. So I want our fans to open their minds and experience their live stage.
We tend to think of a band doing their best as something that is only obvious......
Show: That's not necessarily the case. How should I put it? There are many bands that do things differently. To open your mind and lay everything bare is, to a certain extent, the way punk bands do it. But that is what I am after.
Issei: I understand.
That might be what you two, and the two bands have in common. By the way, is there something that you think of the other, or would like to ask of the other as a vocalist or lyricist?
Show: In general, the song comes first, right? Before writing the lyrics.
Issei: It depends on the situation. There are times when the lyrics come first. I always write down what I am thinking or feeling, so there are times when I think "Oh, I have to write a song that suits these lyrics". There are also times where I get the lyrics from the mood of the song, like "This song is really occult!". At the same time, there is also the artwork, so the image just bursts out into different directions, and I naturally get into the zone.
Show: So you are quite like an artist, where it's quite a spontaneous style. For me, I'm the opposite, and it starts with my own ego, saying "I want to express this!", for better or for worse. I love my fellow members, so I'm the type to focus on just how well I can express the kind of world that the members want to express to the people listening through a good performance. So first of all, I listen to the song over and over. From there, I interpret the scenery I get from the song, and consider how I can overlay that on the lives of the listeners. That's why I watch lots of movies and read lots of novels, and try to get input of the "true essence of the work". For example, in love stories, isn't it only emotional because they overcome obstacles, and there are people who get hurt and sad, but don't want to have people say to them "Chin up"? I capture that essence with my own interpretation and overlay that onto the member's songs. So I might be more like a kind of procedural lyricist. But I am sure to make it lyrics where you can picture the scenery. For example, I tend to like the lyrics of HYDE and so on.
To compare it to paintings, Show is more like the scenic painting type, and Issei is more like a Picasso or Dali. So let's have a question from Issei.
Issei: In your everyday life, what do you do that makes you think "Whoa, this is amazing!"? I mean apart from doing a live show or completing a CD.
Show: Recently, when I've been working out and drink a protein shake, I feel the most happy (laughs). But as I'm busy, just like I said before, I am proactively trying to get some input. Recently, I went to a solo photo exhibition of an acquaintance who had even won a prize for it, and it was really amazing! That person's main job is a hairdresser, but I told them "Quit your job and become a cameraman" (laughs). When I have even a little bit of free time, I do my best to try and go to interesting places. In the past, I was a hardcore gamer and never left the house....... Well, it's certainly true that games foster your imagination. For example, even if you look up at the sky in Tokyo, you can't see the stars, but in games, you can see the starry sky any time you want, the kind that I saw as a kid in Nagano.
Issei: Because you're in the world of virtual reality.
Show: Right. But at those moments when you think "I want to hone my sensibilities", it's different from going proactively going out there and getting it yourself. Lately, I've come to think that the action of moving on your own volition of wanting to hone your sensibilities for the sake of art is really important.
By the way, what kind of moments make you think "This is awesome", Issei?
Issei: There are plenty. Of course going to Disneyland, and as always, I like going to temples. Recently, I've gotten really addicted to watching pro-wrestling. I've always liked it, but when I actually went to a match for the first time in 10 years, I was like "It's crazy". The male pride and passionate souls and whatever are charming, but I find the strong entertainment value of it interesting. It has "showmanship" elements to it, and there are many things I can learn from it. Also, recently, I've been enjoying watching athletics, and I really do enjoy just about anything. Because I sink my teeth into whatever it is I find interesting.
Show: Issei's sensibilities is like that of Grimms' Fairy Tales. It's like a fairy tale, but there are scary elements, and in a good way, it's kitsch...... Since he has this twisted cute feeling, I think I'll observe him to see where he gets his input from. On this tour.
Since it seems like somehow, these two bands have an affinity, I'm sure the fans must have also been happy when this tour was announced.
Issei: Yes, they were really happy.
Show: Even already on Twitter, fans have sent me a list of BugLug song titles that they want us to sing during the all-member session. Like "Guillotine", "Saru", "Melancholic Candy", or "Grazie!!".
Issei: Hahaha! How terrifying (laughs).
Well, a practical problem is will there be an all-member session?
Show: As of now, we haven't announced anything, but...... it is a good opportunity. Here I will just say "Please look forward to it".
Issei: Well, just like BugLug lives, it's going to be a live in an enjoyable space, and I think people are going to see a different kind of BugLug they've not seen before. So I definitely do want fans to come see us, and I also want non-fans to come see us. No matter who comes to see us, you will definitely leave with a smile on your face!
Show: Because our stance is rather than saying it's a battle between A9 and BugLug, together, A9 and BugLug have prepared a place and opportunity to make you happy. So please look forward to it.
1 Issei suffered from head injuries after falling down stairs.
Something will awaken in these "beautiful beasts"?!
Let's take another look at A9's origins before their 15th year anniversary!
There will be an "important announcement" 10 days after this magazine is released, on August 10 at Hibiya Open-Air Concert Hall. As we look forward to the live show, let's take a look at their 15-year history. The members were frank and open about everything, such as unknown backstories that some members learned about for the first time from before the band formed, discord during the period they were classified as neo Visual-kei, and setbacks at their International Forum Hall A show, which became a turning point for them. That they can be so honest here is surely because they are in a better place now.
A9, who are celebrating their 15th year anniversary this year, first released the 15TH ANNIVERSARY BEST ALBUMS "Kachou no Chou" and "Fuugetsu no Shi", re-recordings of songs chosen by the members, on April 24th. This was something that was kind of expected. The issue is then what came after that.
Show: Yes (laughs). Many things.
Yes. On the first day on the tour on May 4th, you made some very interesting announcements. The tour that you are currently on now (interview took place in mid-June) in conjunction with those albums, "BEST OF A9 TOUR ALIVERSARY" had "A9 LAST ONE MAN TOUR" added to the tour title. Also, the tour final, which will take place on August 10th at Hibiya Open-Air Concert Hall, "BEST OF A9 TOUR ALIVERSARY FINAL A9 15TH ANNIVERSARY" also had "A9 LAST ONEMAN" added to the title. On this day, the band will make an "important announcement". On top of that, the live at Hibiya will be your last one man live, but it was announced that at the A9 festival live, "Beautiful Beast Fest.", to take place afterwards on August 24th, for some reason, even though it's A9's festival live, they will be the opening act. Although you are welcoming your 15th year anniversary, we don't know if A9 is in a celebratory mood or not (laughs). Today, while asking about a general outline of these last 15 years, I would also like to ask about the true meaning of these interesting announcements.
All: Sure.
In what aspects do you feel that this is your 15th anniversary year?
Nao: That my stiff shoulders won't go away. I'm joking (laughs). It would be that just looking at the number of songs we have, we have over 100 songs! Personally, it doesn't feel like we have that many songs. But we already have over 100 songs. That's amazing.
Show: We have about 120 songs.
Nao: The fact that the number of songs we have are in the triple digits actually makes it feel like we have been doing this for 15 years. Though saying we have been doing this for 15 years, we have always been doing this, so I don't actually feel the gravity of that. But taking the time to think about it, 15 years is quite some time. It's very long.
It's the length of time it would take for a newborn baby to reach third year in middle school. 15 years.
Nao: That's right. When fans tell me "I first started listening to you when I was in elementary school", it makes me think "Are you serious?!". When I think that those fans who were elementary school students back then are now adults and are full-fledged members of society, it really is a long period of time. It makes me actually feel just how long 15 years is.
Saga: I don't really get that feeling if you tell me a newborn baby would be in third year in middle school, but if I were to compare that length of time to a prison sentence, I do think "That's real long" (laughs).
It was just an example, but still (laughs).
Saga: Mine was a bad example, but putting it in terms of prison sentences makes it feel long.
Tora: That's true!
Saga: Just try imagining "A9 in prison for 15 years". It would make you think that we weren't able to be out in the free world for quite a long time.
Tora: Gahahaha.
On the other side of the fence.
Saga: Right. Don't bands have an element that is detached from the real world, by nature? Although I do think we have to match our feeling to society, when you've been in a band this long, this feeling starts to disalign with that of society, and become different. Lately I've been getting this feeling that when you're not in the free world and on the other side of the fence for 15 years, "Even if we were to go out into the free world now, it would be impossible to live a normal life". I feel that I can no longer live a normal life. In our 15th year anniversary, I get this kind of feeling that even from now on, I'll be living like a lifetime gambler.
Tora: I might not even feel that we are in our 15th year at all. Because our band has had more events than I thought it would.
What do you mean by events?
Tora: We left our management company, and there were many other troubles and accidents (laughs).
And in actuality, you yourself had a big accident (emergency operation due to myocardial infarction) last year.
Tora: Since there were many things that happened, I feel like we were able to do this for 15 years without getting bored.
Hiroto: For me, I feel it at those moments when I get dejavu. Actually having experienced the moment in the past, recently, there's been plenty of times where I was like "I've felt this feeling in this situation before". I get that feeling when I'm with the members, and I've been getting it quite a lot at lives too. Right now, we're on tour for the best of album, and there have been many times where I felt "I don't quite remember it clearly since it was such a long time ago, but I've felt this feeling before". That is where I actually feel that we are in our 15th year.
Show: You might feel that quite a lot recently since we were on tour for "Kachou no Chou", the best of album that covers our early years. Now, we've started touring for "Fuugetsu no Shi", the best of album that covers our years as "Alice Nine". For each tour, we travelled across half of Japan. As for the way we built the setlist for the tours, we say that this particular block is for "Alpha1", and this block is for "VANDALIZE2", and we play 3 - 4 songs from the albums without any talk breaks in between. What I think when we do that kind of tour is...... Hehehe, the ladies in front of us go back to being "young girls". That is what I feel, looking out from the stage. "VANDALIZE" is the last album we released under KING RECORDS, and that was already 10 years ago. When we play songs from "VANDALIZE", those 25-year old ladies go back to being 15 years old. Although we probably can't compare ourselves to the "magic" that happens with bands such as BUCK-TICK, even for bands with a history such as ours, that kind of magic happens too. I really do feel that music transcends time.
In that way, it was a really good thing to have made these best of albums.
Show: That's right. The best of album itself was a project which started without any motivations like "If we released this, then our old fans will come back".
If I remember correctly, the best of albums were made with the goal of the current version of yourselves facing your older songs and drawing out the good qualities of the songs to complete them.
Show: That's right. But when we did that, many fans who we've not seen in a while came to see our live shows. I think that as a project, it was a good that we did that. Re-arranging over 20 songs at once, half-way through it seemed like Saga was going to work himself to death, and I did wonder if he would be okay. Honestly, I was worried about whether or not we would produce the results that corresponded to the efforts put into it, but we are currently on tour feeling that it was a good that we did this, so I'm relieved. Looking at the fans' faces during the live show and thinking that music really does transcend time, through the setlist that is packed with several albums of songs, I feel twice the weight of 15 years.
So, could you please tell us once again the details of how A9 was formed 15 years ago?
Show: If we were to give a proper explanation--
Saga: It's a band formed with members with really bad reputations.
Nao: (Looking at Saga) You didn't have a bad reputation, though?
Saga: Yeah, I didn't.
Nao: Neither did I.
Show & Saga: You did, you did!
Nao: What?! I'm sure I didn't~ (laughs).
Show: To be completely honest, Hiroto, Nao, and myself were invited to be in another band. When I asked Nao "So, are we gonna be in this band?", he was like "Nope, not me".
Nao: Gahahahaha. You're making me out to be the bad guy (laughs).
Show: Before that, Saga and Nao--
Nao: That was at Rokumeikan3, right?
Saga: Right.
Nao: I barged into the place and suddenly said to Saga "Be in my band", and exchanged contact info with him.
Saga: Even though I was still in another band.
Nao: At the time, I thought my life was in a dangerous spot, so I had no time to care about others around me.
Since your band had already disbanded at the time, you were desperate.
Nao: Yes. It was just at the time where the internet was getting more widespread, and after looking at many bands on the internet, I thought "Him. He's good".
Saga: So I was chosen in the same way people choose prostitutes from a webpage (laughs). By Nao.
Show: That's an awful analogy (laughs).
Nao: So when I saw him play live at Rokumeikan, he was exactly as I thought he would be like, so I spared no time to go and convince him to start a band with me.
Show & Hiroto & Tora: Ahh~.
Show: Even though we've been together for 15 years, it's my first time hearing about it in such detail.
Nao: I was in a really dangerous spot back then.
Saga: It was unheard of. He tried to headhunt me even though the other band members were standing right in front of us.
Nao: Hahaha. That is crazy.
Saga: It was that bravery of Nao, who had tried to headhunt me in that situation, that won me over.
Show: Amazing!!
Hiroto: That is amazing.
Saga: It left a strong impression on me.
Show: That's a nice story. It really is my first time hearing that he charged into Rokumeikan.
Hiroto: I've only heard the story from the point in time when these two (Nao and Saga) were together and other other two (Show and Tora) were together. So this is my first time hearing this.
Despite it being your 15th year, you finally discovered the truth!
Hiroto: That's right.
Saga: But I had my own circumstances, and it had only been about half a year since I joined that band. So when Nao came upon me at that time, I said "It's definitely too early to quit". On top of that, I had been added to the band after they formed, so I kept thinking over it quite a lot. I mean, what kind of person would it make me, to quit at that time? But under the pressure of Nao's energy, I thought about joining his band.
Nao: Umm, you might have forgotten, but at that time, Saga had said to me, "I'm in the process of joining another band, and we already have the members finalized".
Saga: Huh? Really? I was invited to join quite a lot of bands.
Nao: That's right.
You were really popular.
Saga: Yes. I was at peak popularity. As a bassist, I'm just right.
Show: Ever since back then, Saga was a bassist that could make a band not doing so well have a "big break", simply because "the bassist is good-looking".
Amazing!!
Hiroto: What do you mean "just right"? You stood out like no one's business. When you looked at the flyers, all you could look at was him. And that "him" was Saga.
Saga: It certainly is true that I was popular among band members. Even though I'm not that social.
You received invitations from everywhere to join their band.
Saga: Right. But even among all that, Nao had left an especially strong impression on me, like "This guy is crazy".
Nao: So with the band Saga was invited to join, the members actually were in the middle of joining a management company.
Saga: That's right.
Show: Were you at the stage where they would treat you to BBQ meat from Jojoen4?
Saga: Right, that's right! I ate BBQ meat and they treated me well. At that time, I had already pulled Nao into this new band.
Nao: And so I was also treated to BBQ meat from Jojoen.
Hiroto: How cunning of him (laughs).
Nao: Yeah! Gahahaha!
Saga: At that time, Show & Tora had contacted Nao about starting a new band.
Show: That's right. I called Nao at about 10 in the morning. What I remember Nao saying to me at the time was just this one phrase: "I'm strict, you know?".
Nao: Puhahahahaha!
Show: His enthusiasm was at another level. Even at that time, Nao said "We're already old men compared to the young kids, so we can't keep starting new bands. My next band will be my last band". It really felt like he was on the edge of a cliff.
Saga: Right. Hearing that about Nao, I also got infected with that feeling, and even I started to get this "Oh crap" feeling. There was no other way about it, and we thought we better make a decision. So we spoke openly to the management company that treated us to BBQ meat, right? If I remember correctly, Nao contacted them.
Nao: Right. When I told them, "To be honest, it's impossible to go in the same direction with these members and be serious about this, so we quit", they were really kind and listened to us, and said "It is what it is". Because of that, Saga and I were able to form a band with Show and Tora.
Hiroto: By the way, I received an invitation to join the band of the president of that company.
Show & Tora: Oh?
Hiroto: But this was after I had met the other four, so I was also honest and said, "There's another band that I want to be in", and they understood, and said to me "Do your best".
Show: Wow. So after myself, Tora, Nao, and Saga got together, the four of us made an assault on the disbandment live of Hiroto's band.
Saga: We sure did.
Hiroto: I think the live the four of you came to was before the disbandment live? Because the band that these two (Nao and Saga) were in also played at the disbandment live.
Nao: Really?
Hiroto: "Really?", he says (laughs).
Show: Even his own memories are getting fuzzy.
Nao: I don't remember.
Saga: Right! It was the band in the management company that treated us to BBQ meat. We were serious about the band, so we played live shows and put in the effort. But Nao was pissed off all the time. To the point I felt sorry for the other members.
Nao: Even though I joined the band later, I had the most complaints. It was after putting in the effort that I had spoke to the company about it being impossible to continue working with these members.
I see. Hearing these stories, it feels like it was Nao's passion and seriousness that led the way to the formation of A9.
Saga: I think it is correct to say that Nao's passion formed the band.
Show: When we joined PS Company, I had even said to the manager at the time "I don't want to stand out, so can you write on Wikipedia that the "Nao formed the band"?".
Really?
Show: Yes. I'm serious. The manager had said to me that being a vocalist is a huge mental strain, so I shouldn't be the leader. So I discussed it with Nao, and ever since joining the company, Nao had taken on the role of leader.
Hiroto & Saga: Oh~.
Nao: All I remember is that the company president said to me "NaoNao, you be the leader".
But to think that it was for the sake of reducing the mental strain on Show.
Nao: What about the mental strain on me (laughs)?
Well, now that you mention it (laughs).
Show: So until the band formed, Nao had been pressing forward and had a lot of enthusiasm, but right after we formed the band, Nao had kind of deflated.
Nao: Nahahahahaha.
Show: He wouldn't show up to rehearsals or would show up late. He did a complete 180 from his serious self.
Saga: There were even times when he didn't show up for interviews.
I can't even imagine it, seeing how he is today.
Show: I know, right? But he went through such times.
Tora: I even answered some interview questions for Nao.
Show: Yeah, you did.
Tora: I randomly wrote answers, like "Q: What is your ideal type of girl? A: Yumi Adachi".
Nao: Ahahahahahahaha!
Show: On top of that, when we were deciding on our band name, only Nao had already gone home. So we had no choice but to decide between the four of us at the restaurant.
Hiroto: It was at a fast-food restaurant. We wrote down band name ideas on the napkins and folded them so you couldn't see the name. Then we opened them one by one, and one of the names was "アリス九5".
Oh. By the way, what were the other potential band names?
Show: "ROSSO", "KORN", and "Ms. Anita".
Tora: Gahahahaha! I remember that.
Show: There were already bands called "ROSSO" and "KORN", and "Ms. Anita" was the name of a foreigner who was in the news headlines at the time, so the only band name that we could use was "アリス九".
Is that so? To go back a little bit, when the five of you got together, for you, Nao, did you get the feeling that this was something you could pour your soul into, as your last band?
Nao: I thought that with these members, we could do something, and I could bet my life on this. I thought it was something I could get serious about.
So what was the reason behind you wanting to join PS Company?
Show: From around our third live show, we suddenly got more people coming to see us. Nao was already a famous bandman, Saga was already famous and more people will show up with just him being in the band, and myself and Tora were also famous, in many ways (laughs). So in the 2 - 3 months after starting the band, one of Hiroto's acquaintances was handling all the calls. For tickets and such. But they said they couldn't sleep because their phone wouldn't stop ringing. So we were at the limit of doing things on our own.
Nao: There were also some livehouses you couldn't rent out if you weren't a corporation. We thought that we couldn't go beyond this, so we started talking about joining a management company.
Hiroto: So we thought if we were going to join a company now, it would be PS Company.
Show: With Nao's connections, we got ourselves a black and white page in SHOXX6 that introduced our band. the GazettE's manager at the time saw it and apparently talked about it in PS Company, like "These kids are going to make it big". So we handed a proposal that outlined the band and a demo tape to the underling of that manager.
So you kind of made presentation material for the band?
Show: That's right. About a month after that, the company president listened to it and contacted us. They apparently decided that if we came late, they wouldn't let us join. At the time, the president told us that because we showed up on time, we were able to join the company.
Hiroto: We went to go meet them at around 11 at night. All of us.
Show: The meeting ended at around 5 in the morning, and after that, we went to one of the member’s houses...... Now that we've come this far, we have to tell the truth (laughs). If we don't, it will be inconsistent.
Saga: To give the true story, we had actually played at a PS Company event once before meeting them. At the time, we were kind of dropping hints to them that we wanted to join the company. If I remember correctly, we also handed them some presentation material directly. At the time, they had told us "Now is not a good time".
Hiroto: Oh yeah! For about a month after that, we really didn't hear anything from them.
Saga: Just when we were about to give up, they contacted us.
Was that around the time when the GazettE had joined PS Company and they were going full steam ahead?
Hiroto: They were. It was also right after MIYAVI and Kagrra, made their major debut.
Saga: People have always said that we were a band that PS Company made. People around us often said to us things like "You're a band that PS Company made just by bringing together good-looking people, right?".
People did say that (laughs).
Saga: That's not the case at all.
Show: It's just as you have read in this interview.
Saga: It's a band that Nao had formed.
So where did the band concept of "blending of Japanese and Western style", which アリス九號. had at the time, come from?
Show: The management company had said to us "Come up with a catchphrase about what your band is about", so it's only just something that was added on.
Hiroto: At the time we joined PS Company, all the bands had a catchphrase that was kind of like a subtitle for them.
Show: It was a phrase added to our name because of the company rule.
Saga: Did we have that subtitle attached to our name?
Hiroto: No. We refused to have it. Right from the beginning, we never did what we were told.
Even though in PS Company, you look most like the honour students, but you actually weren't.
Hiroto: Yeah. We didn't add anything ourselves, because we were like "We can only come up with lame phrases!".
You refused to add a subtitle, but you listened to the company when they told you to put a period at the end of the band name.
Show: That was instructions given to us after the fengshui of the band's name was examined.
Hiroto: As we joined PS Company, they said to us "The number of strokes in your band name isn't good. There's one stroke missing, so change your band name".
Show: So I said "Then I'll just add a dot on the end", and we became "アリス九號.".
At first, your name was "アリス九", right?
Show: Yes. When I was writing down our band's name at Takadanobaba AREA7, the staff there said, "Oh, it's like Sakamoto Kyu (坂本九)". I also thought that "アリス九" didn't have much of an impact, so I just added a "號" to the end. Because it seemed like a strong word. Even I was quite proud of myself, to know such an old word like "號".
Now that you think about it, in 2004, when the band had formed, you had already changed your name twice, from "アリス九" to "アリス九號" to "アリス九號.".
All: Oh!
So in your 5th year, you changed your name from "アリス九號." to "Alice Nine". What were your activities like in the time since joining the company and changing your band name to an English stylisation?
Nao: The feeling was different from what it is now. At the time, just by being able to film music videos and being able to record in a proper studio made me think "Wow, we're like pros. It really feels like we're doing music". I was glad.
Were there any dramatic changes since joining the company?
Tora: At the time, there were lots of magazines, and we pretty much appeared in all of them and more.
"All of them and more"? It was that many?
Hiroto: We even appeared in extra editions of magazines.
Show: We appeared in loads of magazines.
Hiroto: Around our third year, whenever we released an album or single, we would be in all the magazines in the music magazine section at bookstores. On top of that, we were also in idol magazines that other bands weren't in.
You were!
Tora: So the toughest thing was that for about 20 days of the month, we would be doing photoshoots for magazines. Since we also had to go on tour with that kind of schedule, the toughest thing was not having the time for band practice, the most important thing. The band was still not a cohesive one, and from such an early stage, where it wasn't as though we had a song that was killing the charts, we were already rushing forward into that kind of thing. So at any rate, we did photoshoots, to the point where I didn't know if we were a band or models.
Show: Just around our third year, the term "Neo Visual-kei" was coined. The NHK music show "MUSIC JAPAN" held a "Neo Visual-kei Midsummer Party", and that was suddenly the trend at the time. We thought that we had to secure a spot there. It was that kind of time. I think that is also why we were appearing a lot in media. So the phrase "Neo Visual-kei" was coined, and when people wondered "So which bands are Neo Visual-kei?", it was our seniors Plastic Tree and MUCC. But don't you get the feeling that if kids like us were to actually go in there to compete with them, we would get roasted? So that was the trend at the time, and for better or for worse, we were there at around the same time. In the world of entertainment, there are limitations to the things that someone can make by themselves. HYDE had once said to me "The world needs trends too". I think that truly amazing people can read the trends of the time and get on board with that. But for us, we went ahead recklessly, and before we knew it, we found ourselves in that trend.
Without you even knowing it.
Show: Right. To begin with, when we started our band, it was at the time where "Visual-kei" was losing its popularity. So I didn't even imagine that we would be appearing on TV or playing at Nippon Budokan8. It's just that at that time, this was the trend.
Along with the birth of the phrase "Neo Visual-kei", things were stirring up in the world and in the music scene.
Show: Yes. BAROQUE was an early adapter, and bands such as ourselves, SID, the GazettE, and NIGHTMARE were being labelled as "Neo Visual-kei". That era ended fantastically with Golden Bomber. I think they were able to bring a close to the era because they are the real deal, and not just copying our seniors.
I see. Even among the "Neo Visual-kei" bands, was it the company that thought to set you apart from the rest by really putting it out there that in terms of looks, you were like an "idol band" or "princes"?
Show: There was not even a single time where the company could properly control us.
Saga: We had good looks. Compared to other bands. So even if we didn't put it out there, it just appeared that we did. That's all it was. Maybe the company or record label wanted to put our looks at the forefront, but it's not as though we purposely did that kind of thing. So that it appeared that way was only natural.
Show: So from then on, we just owned it, like "Yeah, that's right". For example, it had taken us 14 years to be able to use the "prince" thing of our own volition.
Until at your 14th anniversary live, "ALICE IN CASTLE -Princes from the Stars and the Castle of the Moon", where the five of you played the part of princes.
Show: Yes, that's right.
Nao: But for me, back then, hearing people calling us a good-looking band made me think "Oh, so I'm good-looking too?". It made me so happy I was smirking all the time.
Show: Even back then, Nao was famous for being the good-looking drummer of Fatima. Apart from YOSHIKI, who is in a whole other dimension, there weren't really any other star drummers.
Even if you didn't voluntarily use it to your advantage, between yourselves, were you at least a little bit aware from the beginning that the band was full of good-looking people?
Show: Isn't that something we all instinctively felt? In Saga's previous band, he was so much more cooler than the other members. Even with Tora, when I first saw him, there were only fans on the stage left side, where Tora was. At the time, he was working up the crowd by hopping from side to side though. I was confused by that.
Even though he was cool, you didn't understand the point of doing that.
Tora: Nahahahaha.
Show: But I thought "Wow" (laughs). Hiroto being Hiroto, he was a guitarist that stood even further in front of the vocalist and stood out.
Saga: Even though the vocalist was singing, he would be shouting in an excessively loud voice "Let's go!", and be making gestures.
Wahahaha. So what did you think when you first saw Show?
Tora: He was cool. I remember him singing from a really low position. He was pretty much singing from the ground. I thought "What's with that guy?".
Nao: Really?
Show: I've never talked about this before, but I liked FANATIC♢CRISIS' RYUJI The most. He would spread out his legs really far and play from a low position. So I sang with that kind of style in mind.
Saga: I want to see that. Him singing from really close to the ground.
Tora: But when it's like that, it's Visual-kei but also not Visual-kei. I felt something with Show that I had never felt before, and I thought he was really cool.
Saga: The first impression I got from Show was "his face doesn't match his voice". From his face, I thought he was the cute type, but when I heard his voice, he wasn't like that at all. Since his voice was deep and dark, I thought it was interesting.
Show: I think what Saga and Tora saw was when I was in my very first band. Up until then, I had never been in a Visual-kei band before, let alone seen one play before. I had look at the "looking for members" section in "Rockin f (technical music magazine)", and applied to be in a SlipKnot copyband. That was a band where they said to me "All you have to do is go nuts. Don't worry about the singing"...... Are we even going to be able to talk about our 15th year at this pace?
Tora: That's because you just took us back in time again (laughs).
I do want to ask about those times again. When the five of you came together, what ideas did you have about the kind of musical direction you would take?
Saga: I get the feeling that we didn't do what everyone else at the time was doing. That's why from the very beginning, we had a lot of songs that emphasized the singing.
Tora: I might have even talked about it.
Hiroto: So he took the lead and went to go sell his 7-string guitar. And instead, he went and bought a Clapton model guitar and said "We should play the kind of music you can play with this guitar".
Nao: Wow.
Tora: I thought that this wasn't the kind of band that needed a 7-string guitar.
When did you think that?
Tora: When it was time to stand on stage, everyone was shining brightly. It was at that time. At first, I thought it would be better for me to watch things from the back, so when we formed the band, I used to stand where Saga stands now. My personality is not the type to want to put myself out there, so my approach was "I'll just stand back here, and all of you can go to the front". So when I watched the band from that position, I thought that we didn't need a 7-string guitar. It would be better for us to do upbeat songs.
Is that so? So let's move on from when the band formed. During the band's 5th year, why did you change the band stylization from "アリス九號." to the English stylization "Alice Nine"?
Show: We had intended to change the band stylization to "Alice Nine" in 2005, but at the time, the company was against it. So in 2009, we were finally about to get our way. That's all.
What were activities like after you changed the stylization to "Alice Nine"? You also played at Nippon Budokan for the very first time in 2011.
Show: To be honest, we were not able to play at Budokan when the band was at peak popularity. Our peak popularity was around our 4th year. After that, when we left KING RECORDS, which we had been signed to since the beginning, we took a break and lost many fans. I want to let everyone know that you shouldn't take a break, if possible (laughs). Since 2007, having been dragged to the center stage as a Neo Visual-kei band, we were led by the nose by the adults and changed record labels twice. We even reached the decision to leave our management company, and we suffered quite a lot of hardships.
In terms of public image, it doesn't seem like you are a band that had quite a lot of hardships, though.
Nao: That's certainly true. That's how people tend to think of us. Although I do think it's because when we debuted, we rushed straight ahead without any struggles.
Show: Maybe so. For me, even though I'm a vocalist, I was actually better at things other than singing. Although I think the members accepted me because of the way I carried myself on stage, to be completely honest, I was at the level where I needed to become a professional singer. I was a strategist and a designer, but as a musician, when you looked underneath the surface, I had no self-confidence whatsoever. I had lost the power to express things. Also as a band, the adults had started saying things to us like "Write that kind of song" or "Write this kind of song", or "Get a composer to write you a hit". At the time, Saga had said "No, we'll write it ourselves", and the songs he wrote while giving a big "fuck you" to the adults was "JEWELS" and "RAINBOWS". It was from then that this feeling was born that we're not just pretty faces, and that to a certain extent, we had a kind of spirit as a rock band. But still, singing was very difficult for me. Unless you're a person that has liked singing from a young age, and keeps listening to your own voice, critiquing yourself saying "If I did this, I'll be able to sing better", and do it for a long time, you shouldn't become a professional singer. Because singing really is difficult.
But that said, since quitting the company, you've made leaps and bounds as a vocalist.
Show: Now I know how to practice, but back then, I didn't even know how to practice, and I think my singing was plain awful (awkward smile). But what's amazing about the members is that they never once said to me "It's because of your awful signing that we never made it big".
Wow. That's a nice story. I get the feeling that's another reason why the band was able to keep on doing this for 15 years.
Nao: I don't really compliment people, but I think that Show's voice is one of a kind, and the best. I thought that from the beginning.
Hiroto: I thought the same when the band had formed. Even if there are things like technique and pitch, you cannot change the voice itself.
You must be happy to hear that, Show.
Show: All of the members are wonderful people. I think that that's another reason why the band was able to continue. However, one thing I will mention is that after our first time playing at International Forum Hall A, all Nao had said to me was "Show, let's do our best, okay?" (laughs).
Nao: I didn't mean it like that~! I didn't mean just you, but as a band, we should do our best.
Nao was crying backstage after the show was over. What was behind those tears?
Nao: Up until then, we were doing things without any reservation, and I thought that we were perhaps too flippant about it. Those were tears of me reflecting on ourselves, that we should have put more effort into it.
Show: Forum Hall A painfully lays it bare. The upper floors were pitch black. At the time, only about 2700 people had come to see us (the hall fits 5000 people). Seeing that would want to make anyone want to cry.
Nao: It was simply frustrating.
Tora: I have poor eyesight, so I didn't realize it at all.
Nao: Gahahaha!
Hiroto: I thought that the scene in front of us was reality, and accepted that reality. I thought that this was the result of everything we had done up until then.
Saga: From the beginning, I thought there was no way we would fill up the hall. Despite that, truth be told, we were about to play there for two consecutive days. Looking at it objectively, I thought the people around us were acting strange. I thought "Is filling up the hall such an easy feat?". In time, the two consecutive shows was changed to just one show. It was then that things had stopped for me. The vigour we had since forming the band stopped and we came back to reality. It was there that I felt the sense of danger, that we were in a bad spot.
I see. So how did the band recover from that?
Saga: I thought that all we could do is write proper songs, that we had to draw out the charm of our band more. I saw the reality that we could not get any more fans just by having pretty faces. Even with practice, it's not quite what Show was talking about, but without knowing if what we were doing was right or wrong, we kept practicing. The lesson we took from Forum Hall A was that with practice, it was something that had to be done seriously. That's why I wasn't sad that we didn't fill out the entire hall. It was more like "Well, of course not". It was around here. I was the one to wake up from that dream first. My eyes were wide open.
So that was the fork in the road where Alice Nine awoke as a rock band.
Saga: That's right.
Nao: Because of that exprience, from then on, I practiced like crazy. I was in the studio so often to the point you wondered if I lived in the studio. So I think that empty Forum Hall provided the band with good motivation.
After that, when the band was welcoming its 10th year anniversary, you graduated from your management company and started to do things on your own.
Saga: We were indebted to the company, but when we considered our life from that point onwards, we were no longer able to leave everything to them. When looking at our future, we thought that we had to do this ourselves.
Show: Because we thought that humans don't grow and don't have a future if they don't take on risks. That company had taken good care of us, as if we were family. After leaving, it made me think once again that they are a good company, but at the time, we chose to take on the risks. That we can do activities like this now is the socially correct thing, I think.
After graduating from the company, you changed the band name from "Alice Nine" to "A9", and restarted activities. What do you think about that now?
Show: We didn't want to fight with our previous company, so we proceeded logically and changed our name to "A9". Even now, I think that we made the right choice.
Where did the name "A9" come from?
Saga: The phrase "A9" was already there before we even became A9. I don't remember who said it though.
Hiroto: At first, that's what our Chinese fans called us.
Nao: Oh.
Hiroto: So when it came to changing our band name, we didn't want to change it to something that was competely unrelated, so we settled on "A9".
Even after becoming A9 and going independent, you were faced with many difficulties.
Show: If we were to go into detail about that, it would take another 3 hours (laughs). We had a lot of hardships, but now we are at our best. I also feel very grateful that the media will still cover us, like right now. Because this is a chance for us to present ourselves to the people who watch us from a distance, like "A9 is Alice Nine, right? They're still around?". Since going independent, we had met L'Arc~en~Ciel's Ken, and regarding what we could contribute to society, we started to think again about what our strengths were. From the dilemma that we felt about being called "princes" or an "idol band" when we debuted, we accepted the fact, and we started to think about how we could use this to make people happy, and what we could offer to add flair to the audience's experience. Those are the kind of activities we are doing now.
Among those activities, you showed us many surprising performances, such as going back to your roots of a blending of Eastern and Western styles, setting aside your instruments on stage to dance, and even trying out acting. I get the feeling that through this, it has revitalized the image of the band amongst fans.
Show: There was that. Also, we want to play at event lives, but I think that we became a band where it was difficult for others to invite us to play with them. Since we know what our strengths are and we are using it. That is why we decided to host an event ourselves for our 15th year anniversary. If you are reading this and want to see what we are like, I ask that you do come see us.
The A9 that knows what its strengths are now, and is using it.
Show: Yes, because as a Visual-kei band that was around in the 2000s, we can now do our activities properly considering how we can make the audience happy. Be it at Hibiya or Studio Coast9, I would like for them to come see us.
I think that wanting to make the audience happy is connected to that slogan the band had since the beginning, of "the customer is king". Where did this complete approach of "fans first" come from?
Show: It's not as though we want to flatter them (the fans). I think the true essence of Visual-kei is "entertainment". In a different format to the Visual-kei that YOSHIKI had invented, if our generation were to reinterpret Visual-kei and give it a definition, it would be for us to get to the venue much earlier than normal rock bands to do our makeup and to create and wear non-normal outfits to express a world view for the sake of the audience. By doing so, I think that the attitude of entertaining the audience as a part of show business is an element of Visual-kei that allows it to also compete on the world stage. I think that is perhaps the conclusion we reached after these 15 years.
Finally, let me ask about what is on our minds the most. You added the interesting title of "A9 LAST ONEMAN" to the tour that leads to your show at Hibiya. What is the meaning behind that?
Show: I think that you can pretty much guess what that means from the mood of this interview, where there isn't a single indication that we're going to disband (laughs).
1 Album released in November 2007 under the band name アリス九號.
2 Album released in January 2009 under the band name アリス九號.
3 A livehouse in Meguro, Tokyo. It is known as one of the "holy places" for Visual-kei bands.
4 A relatively expensive bbq meat franchise.
5 Literally translates to "Alice Nine", but stylistically different to the actual band name "アリス九號."
6 A Japanese Visual-kei magazine (no longer in publication).
7 A livehouse in Takadanobaba, Tokyo. It is another "holy place" for Visual-kei bands, and being able to play here is like a milestone for bands.
8 A large indoor arena in Chiyoda, Tokyo.
9 A large concert venue in Shinkiba, Tokyo.
We ask them about "Uranometria" that was released last year on December 13th. First of all, what does the meaning of the title of the lead song "Uranometria" mean?
It is a Latin word derived from Greek, and has the meaning of "star atlas".
It has been about one and a half months since the release, but how have the reactions from the listeners been?
It's as we hoped it would be, or rather, it was how we expected it to be. It's like we were right on the mark thinking things like "It seems like all songs on the CD will be popular", or that we would get this kind of reaction.
This song leaves an impression, such as with the intro of the song, where we can sort of imagine what image the lyrics will paint, but were there any points you focused on, or arrangements, themes, or phrases that you were particular about during production?
RyNK: We mixed the mermaid and me together.
Kie: The feeling of Japanese music. We also placed emphasis on the arrangement to make one recall the movements of waves, flowing from right to left and left to right and becoming intertwined.
Amu: The title and release date. As we reduced distortion, we built up a variety of sounds and arranged it so people could hear the chords, also the interaction between the left and right channels of the guitars in the pre-chorus and bridge.
Lune: I kept in mind to not use the habits that I usually add to the arrangements.
Mel: What I put emphasis on was to not have noisy drums, and to have beats and phrases that were even more aware of the fact that there would be singing on top of it.
The Castor version includes the music video for "Uranometria". Please tell us the highlight of the music video, scenes that you were particular about, or any behind stories of filming or something you had trouble with.
RyNK: My clothes were fluttery.
Kie: The outfits were completed on the day of the movie filming. I was nervous.
Amu: The hand drawn sparkling effect when the song title comes up and the tearing up scene after the bridge.
Lune: Actually, we used a little bit of a gimmick to show the water.
Mel: I'm using an important drum set so I want people to look at it. Among the simple drum setting, I think another highlight is the cymbal that stands out in the back.
So the coupling song "Suisou no Umi" that is included on both the Castor version and Pollux version. Please tell us the theme or any stories from production, or things you were particular about with this song.
RyNK: I tried a little hard on the last part.
Kie: There was no place to put in a guitar solo, so I spent a whole day trying to put one in. When you look at your world, which you thought was the ocean (everything), from the side it's just an insignificant fish tank, and all it was was you being forced to swim there... I put the emotions I felt from that into the guitar solo.
Amu: I wanted to make it so that people could feel the story just from listening to the orchestral parts in the part from the intro to the twin leader guitar solo.
Lune: Since it was a song that we all made imagining playing it at a large venue, it became a song that is very nice to play live.
Mel: The difference between the quiet parts before the band comes in and the explosiveness after the band comes in.
About the coupling song "Hello & Goodbye" that is on the Pollux version. Please tell us the theme or any stories from production, or things you were particular about with this song.
RyNK: I worked hard at articulation.
Kie: The bridge after the break down. It's tension and relaxation!
Amu: The verse repeats many times, and because the guitars on the left and right channel are always the same, we changed the arrangement so that the delayed guitar phrases in the background match with the drums.
Lune: We were able to express the feeling of GRIMOIRE with the toy-like sounds in the intro and the sound of the metronome we purposely put in. We all listened to each and every tone, so they are refined.
Mel: With the phrase in the verses, I play something different the first and second time, and they are phrases that express this toy-like feeling.
A special show "Yurumoa-chan" will take place on February 9th at Shinjuku RUIDO K4. It will be a solo show with a completely different relaxed atmosphere from normal, and the setlist will be comprised of the 12 most voted for songs. What kind of show will it be? Also, are the votes what you expected? Were there any unexpected songs?
RyNK: It will be unleashed.
Kie: I can't imagine it. I hope it becomes a live that will be a comfortable time for the people who come.
Amu: I haven't seen the votes yet.
Lune: I wonder where "Mime Mime" is ranked... I'm a bit anxious about the space in between songs, but I would like to take on this challenge with a feeling of it being something new.
Mel: As it's a different feeling from usual I am a bit worried, but I think it would be nice if we could show another side of us. It would be nice if everyone could hear their favourite songs.
And about RynK's birthday solo show "Birthday Party" that will be held on April 22nd at Aoyama Tsuki Miru Kimi Omou. Although there is still quite some time until the show, but are there any things you have planned or things to look forward to?
As it's the first time to hold a birthday event, we want to make it a live with a special feeling. It would be amazing if not just RyNK himself, but also the fans got warm feelings from the show.
What is it that GRIMOIRE pays attention to at lives, or wants to show?
RyNK: I would be glad if they looked at the thing in the middle.
Kie: Entertainment.
Amu: Today only exists today. To let everything out. Whether it moves people's emotions or not.
Lune: It would be to enjoy it. If we ourselves weren't enjoying it, then the audience also wouldn't enjoy it, right? That they are at the venue means that they pushed aside other things and paid money to come and see us, so anyhow, I want to make it enjoyable.
Mel: The atmosphere, the dynamics and the story composition and development of the setlist. And to always enjoy it.
Please tell use a song you recommend and choreography for the people who will see GRIMOIRE live for the first time.
RyNK: "Seitan Devil". The "Eyeball" part.
Kie: "Gensou Syndrome". When you go from jumping, to raising your hands in the air and then small headbangs.
Amu: "Suisou no Umi". Without worrying about difficult things, I want them to feel our "stillness" and "motion".
Lune: "Boku to Tulpa". The clapping during the verses. Or what the wolf calls "The sheep dance".
Mel: "Nejire Inside". Where you cover your eyes to match with the lyrics in the verse.
Are there any fads or common hobbies shared with the members right now?
RyNK: None.
Kie: I don't think so?
Amu: Nothing in particular.
Lune: None!
Mel: Nothing in particular, but when we go on tour we go and eat hamburgers together.
February 3rd is the traditional last day of Winter. Are there any demons inside you that you would like to chase out?
RyNK: The one in my heart.
Kie: The troublesome one. I'm going to start eating breakfast now.
Amu: The extreme one. I won't think of things in extremes.
Lune: The isolating one. I will make more friends.
Mel: The forgetful one. I'll make a checklist of things to bring on tour.
It's almost Valentine's Day. Please tell us one sweet memory and one bitter memory from then.
RyNK: They came all the way to my place to give me chocolate. When I asked for chocolate and they said "No way".
Kie: Please let me keep them to myself.
Amu: None in particular.
Lune: When I got chocolate from a girl in another class who I had no contact with. That made me happy.
Mel: Being able to eat lots of delicious chocolate. Eating too much chocolate.
Please give a message to the SEVEN readers.
RyNK: It's cold so stay warm.
Kie: See you.
Amu: I hope we can see you somewhere.
Lune: This year GRIMOIRE may go to see you at places we've never been before. Wait for us.
Mel: We will be a band that will being you lots of wonderful songs and lives this year too and make you think that you're glad to be a GRIMOIRE fan. This year we're going to see you much, much more so wait for us.
