uwu

please read this <3

[coolestfinch]

the creator of the pan flag supports bi/pan lesbians but you won’t see anyone calling for a new flag or anything because biphobia is so fucking normalized in the lgbt community. and thats if we even ignore the fact that pansexuality is inherently biphobic by all definitions. 

[coolestfinch]

this post is making the rounds again and while were at it lets talk about the asexual and demisexual flag. the demi flag uses black triangle imagery and i shouldn’t have to explain why thats fucked up, and the ace flag was created by an AVEN member, AVEN was/is run by david jay who is a RAGING homophobe and if you dont know anything about that then you need to learn the history of your own god damn community. im not saying that the lipstick flag isnt gross or that the woman who made it doesn’t deserve to be de-platformed and ridiculed, but the fact that lesbians are the ONLY PEOPLE in the community who get torn to shreds for using the flag they want or get told that because of our flags complex history that we “shouldn’t even be included in the first place bc its too much effort” is fucking repulsive and shows how little yall care about lesbians and our representation.

[colorisbyshe]

Have aces always been considered LGBT? No.

I’m massively bored and massively annoyed at people circulating images of radfems to support their arguments. So here’s another ace discourse post. 

A fringe argument in ace discourse has been “Asexuals have always been considered LGBT!” even though there has never been any noted reference to cisgender, straight aces in LGBT spaces prior to like… 2010. And the LGBT spaces prior to 2010 that let in cisgender, straight aces were just GSAs (which already let in cishets) in high schools or colleges.

And there is a reason for it.

Part of the reason is the changing definition of asexual. The AVEN triangle is based on the Kinsey “Group X” definition where Group X meant just… not having sex. Kinsey (who should not be cited with adoration for coming up with asexuality, as he was an awful person) did not create the “scale” to address who is or is not LGBT.

Then, radical feminists (ie also not an LGBT group) defined asexuality as viewing sex as nonessential to relationships. This bore an iconic image used to defend aces as LGBT to this day:

The image is from “off our backs” which is a radical feminist publication. This particular group was “Lesbians Activists at Barnard (College).” This was not listing LGBT identities (thus why straight was up there) but was listing identities you could have as a radical feminist. Similarly, the “Asexual Manifesto” was published by radical feminist Lisa Orlando who published it through New York Radical Feminists. And talks about asexuality being a choice, not an identity.

At the same time, asexual was referenced by a trans liberation mag, as we can see from ANOTHER image used by inclusionists:

This is an image just saying that all trans people should be liberated no matter if they are straight, gay, or anything else. It should be noted that since this was published in 1970, it was functioning under the same understanding of asexual as used by the radical feminists who defined asexual as seeing “ sex as nonessential to a satisfying relationship.” Not at all our modern definition of asexual.

So, we’re into 1970 and no one is considering ace to be LGBT. And yet it exists as DISTINCT from bisexual, so all of you fuckers can stop with the “actual cishet aces were considered to be bisexual” cause… no they weren’t.

Skip to the first proto ace community as listed by aven itself, Zoe O’Reilly’s “My Life as an Amoeba.” Which speaks of envy towards LGBT people, boasts of asexuality being about not fucking or dating and how that makes them better than teen moms, and defines asexuality how we would aroace. So, different ace definition than today… still not considered LGBT.

AVEN’s creation is messy as fuck and struggles to define asexuality but decides that basically any person who relates to non-sexuality belongs there. Neato.

May 2003 on AVEN: “Let’s change LGBT to LGBTA.” David Jay, founder of AVEN, says, actually, he’s already done so by making his universitys acronym “ LGBTTQQPFAGIBDSM “ (spot the slur, look hard at the inclusion of BDSM). People make “LOL SO MANY LETTERS” jokes that homophobes make about LGBT to this day. Then:

“The ace is for ally bro” and Aven guy says, “Actually, allies are queer.”

So, 2003… aces aren’t LGBT. And David Jay is a fucking freak. Also, someone brought the thread back 8 yaers later to say “Ew aces aren’t LGBT like those sinners.” Oops.

In 2010, aces decided to make their own flag. Some like stripes because it’s “Very LGBT” and well… here are some responses:

So, already an acknowledgment that they might not be LGBT. But calls LGBt people “Alternate sexualities” which… die.

“The gays get a lot of guff, right? Because of their rainbow flag” not OUR rainbow flag, lol. Also, wtf and then someone else points out the a is for ally anyways

In 2010.

In 2015, aces started the #GiveItBack campaign after GLAAD (and then HRC in 2016) said the A is for Ally. You can go on twitter and see aces tweeting about the #GiveItBack campaign if you don’t believe me, lol.

So, if aces want to claim that aces have always been LGBT… I gotta say… history is not on your side and, “No, no, I swear they were actually considered bisexual” doesn’t work because your own images include people listing out bisexual and asexual as separate identities.

Anyways, this post is long as fuck but only took 20 minutes. And will ONLY take me 20 minutes because I’m not arguing with people who want to defend an image of a radfem, an out of context image about trans liberation, or Kinsey lmao. Anyone who wants to argue will be laughed at and/or blocked.

Cause… listen… even aces in the time periods y’all are claiming you were included are saying you weren’t. You’re just wrong. Lol.

[btvs]

[neocores]

'mlm/wlw and lesbian/homosexual/bisexual dont include nonbinary genders so you should use trixic/diamoric/androsexual/venusexual/pansexual instead'

shut the fuck up yes they do. if straight people can be attracted to nonbinary people, that doesn't magically make them Not Straight, right? so why apply that to gay, lesbian, and bi?

nonbinary isn't some other special gender that needs another special label. nonbinary lesbians, gays and bis exist and do not need to have a special label because of being nonbinary.

every sexuality inherently 'includes' being attracted to nonbinary people because being nonbinary is a varied and complex experience between many, many people, and you have no way of knowing if that the person you thought was hot just now is nonbinary.

nonbinary people aren't some fucking magical unicorn that only a few progressives and special orientations can love or find attractive, stop saying that stupid shit and understand that the labels we have now have developed since their first conception, and always will.

[mediumkravitz]

The whole “bisexuals can’t reclaim the f/d-slur” discourse is so disconnected from reality. It just does not make any sense unless you’re on the internet where people’s orientations are explicitly stated. 

For same-gender couples and single non-heterosexuals, here’s no way for real-life strangers to distinguish between “gay” and “bisexual” unless we explicitly come out. Even then, bigots don’t care about who we’re not attracted to—any same-gender attraction bisexuals express renders us “gay” in other people’s eyes. It’s really funny how gay people insist that biphobia is just homophobia and yet we can’t… reclaim homophobic slurs that target and traumatize us.

Nobody looks at a single butch woman and goes, “just so you know, if I saw you with your girlfriend but I thought you were also into men, I would totally not call you the d-slur.” No homophobe sees two men holding hands or a man being flamboyant and thinks to themselves, “I’m going to call them f-slurs because I think they’re not attracted to women.” 

Homophobic violence doesn’t occur because we ~lack attraction to the opposite gender~. It’s because we have attraction towards the same gender (and our society assumes that if you like the same gender then you don’t like any other gender; thanks bi erasure!). If this weren’t the case, bisexuals could escape homophobia by coming out, which is ridiculous. I wish we could do that.

Homophobic violence also has plenty to do with gender-nonconformity, which is to be expected when it’s such a staple of gay/bi culture and non-heterosexuality is a marker of “failing” to adhere to gender roles. As Laverne Cox puts it: 

When kids are bullied and called anti-gay slurs… [i]t’s because the child did not conform to gender expectations based on the sex they were assigned at birth. The bullies might yell ‘gay,’ but it’s about gender expression.

I know bisexuals who’ve been called these slurs while single or in different-gender relationships. I know people who’ve been called the d- or f-slur in response to coming out as bisexual. And did we all just collectively forget the whole “love the sinner hate the sin,” “it’s fine if you’re gay as long as you don’t ‘act on it’” crap?

I hear the “counterargument” that “bisexuals can tell homophobes they’re attracted to the opposite gender while gay people can’t,” but:

They can. That’s what being in the closet is. Gay and bi people can and do lie about their sexualities to avoid violence all the time.

Our different-gender attraction doesn’t eliminate the “problem” of our same gender attraction.

Again, do you really believe that if someone calls me the f-slur, I could just go, “I’m bisexual, actually,” and they’d apologize?

Y’all make far too many assumptions about how bisexuals live their lives when our experiences can be almost identical to yours. We’ve always shared spaces with you, fought with and for you. Unless you somehow believe that we aren’t oppressed for our same-gender attraction, there’s no legitimate reason to “guard” these words from us. They’ve been ours. We aren’t “stealing” anything. 

[bakerybutch]

u know what i will post it actually:

“Before doing this research, we had assumed that the war’s major influence was to allow more lesbians to be self-supporting by opening up more and higher paying jobs for women. But according to narrators, jobs for lesbians were not a result of the war. They and their friends had been working since their teens in offices, shops, and factories, and had never doubted that they could find work. In their minds the important effect of the war was to give more independence to all women, thereby making lesbians more like other women and less easy to identify. Women working in defense industries were out on the street going to work, alone or in groups, at all hours of the day and night. In addition, it was no longer unusual for women to have money to spend or for women to go out to bars or restaurants alone. Many women even went out to gay bars for an evening of fun; some became regulars at the bars and entered lesbian relationships until their husbands returned. Leslie remembers wisecracking, “Here come the war brides,” when groups of straight women would come into Ralph Martin’s, a popular bar of the period.

Finally, and in narrators’ minds most importantly, the dress code for women changed, allowing lesbians to more openly express their erotic interest in women through their clothing. Since all women were now able to wear pants to work and to purchase them in stores off the rack, butches who only wore pants in the privacy of their homes in the 1930s could now wear them on the street. Arden recalls how when she used to work the afternoon shift during the war, she would go into Ralph Martin’s after work. “A woman used to come in who worked on the railroads. She would come in her work clothes, with her lantern, her overalls, and cap. She would look real cute. Some of the girls would go out of their way to come into the bars with their work clothes on.”

Elizabeth Lapovsky Kennedy. “Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: The History of a Lesbian Community” Chapter 2, section title “The Flowering of Lesbian Bar Culture in the 1940s.” (emphasis is my own) 

Even if you argue that butch/femme identities go beyond fashion (which they do, as someone who’s gender is butch i agree), that’s not a legitimate reason to claim bi women can’t use the terms. 

1. It’s just blatantly biphobic and insulting to claim that bi women just aren’t capable of understanding the meaning beyond what you wear. No, bi women are not inherently more shallow and superficial than you, and they can understand anything you can understand.

2. The narrators who were telling stories of their own lives in the early bar scene reported that butches being able to wear pants in public was the most important factor in making butch/femme expression (and therefore the whole bar culture) possible. It’s not “just” fashion, but it IS largely defined by presentation and to deny that shows your own lack of knowledge of butch/femme history.

[coldswarkids]

im tired of discourse.  im right.  no you may not know my opinions

[perpetuallyfive]

As a gender nonconforming cis dyke, I’ve received a lot of weird hostility in bathrooms. Like, a lot. The mild but frequent stuff is when people see me, do a visible double take, and go check the sign again. The not entirely common, more aggressive stuff is when people verbally question why I’m there. More than once I’ve had someone call me “it” or confront me about my gender in public settings. I’ve had people try to tell me to leave.

But the only place I’ve had someone physically try to remove me from a bathroom was in London.

Some random middle aged woman thought that she had the right to put her hands on me simply because I don’t match her ideas of what femininity is, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this happened in a place where transphobia is running rampant. Of all the weird stuff that’s happened to me in pretty conservative parts of the US, they simply are not as emboldened here as they currently are in the UK; but don’t think for a moment that they don’t intend to get there.

Trans people are reason enough to fight these bigots. It’s a good enough reason. Trans people deserve respect, dignity, compassion, and protection. But if you think they’ll be satisfied with only pushing trans people back into the closet, you’re utterly deluded. They want absolute conformity, simple as that, and they’re increasing their push here too.

Any lesbian who aligns herself with transphobia is a traitor. Simple as that.

[theroguefeminist]

At the end of the day it’s about gender conformity. There is no reliable way to police transness in public settings like the bathroom, so gnc ppl and anyone remotely “suspect” is going to get caught in the crossfire. And because transphobia is at its root about enforcing gender normativity, any other perceived “outliers” will be directly targeted next.

[yurimom]

the moment we stopped viewing the LGBT community as a necessity for civil and social rights and started viewing it as a fun club where everyone within it needs a Very Specific Sexual Identity and Everyone Is Valid and there are Hard Boundaries between every sexuality and gender was the moment we were all fucked.

When we insist every identity under the LGBT umbrella is incredibly unique and different from every other identity, there is a deep artificial divide created between bi women + lesbians, bi men + gay men, etc. there’s so much biphobia in the community and i think its rlly due to people focusing way too hard on making sure Every Identity Feels Secure and not enough on solidarity.

you guys add stone butch blues to your reading lists but i don’t think any of you actually read it considering the way you’re treating bi women like they aren’t real wlw or transhet men like they can’t resonate with lesbian experiences. I’m sure this is a fucking newsflash for you, but we’re all the same to cishets. no single sexuality under the LGBT umbrella- yes, this ABSOLUTELY includes hets, as long as they’re trans- oppresses another. “appropriating other sexualities” just isn’t a thing unless you’re cishet.

The divide ppl insist is there is entirely made up and actually HELPS cishets, so can we please reduce these fake ass intracommunity conflicts and focus on real ones like transgender, specifically transfem, oppression at the hands of cisgays? or is that REAL issue too uncomfortable for you guys to handle lmao

[iskierka]

i’m sorry but you just can’t demand to know every detail of someone’s personal life so that you can evaluate whether or not it’s acceptable for them to be reading or shipping or watching something. you’re not actually entitled to the intimate details of the lives of strangers on the internet

[mikkeneko]

[arimakanas]

A03 getting over $200,000 in donations in the midst of a global pandemic, surpassing their own goal by over $150,000 while so many people are literally begging for donations to keep a roof over their heads, is probably one of the most disgusting and demoralizing things ever and I hope all the adults who donated to them choke 💖

[proship-maddog]

Hey OP, have you maybe, say, bought a comic book during the pandemic or even a few? Because if yes, you’re in the same boat as everyone who has donated to AO3. You’re also a person who chose to give money to something for your own entertainment instead of a poor person who needed it.

Obviously, it doesn’t have to be comic books if you haven’t bought those. It could be anything that you bought even though you didn’t need it. A new piece of clothing maybe that you just thought was pretty but you actually didn’t desperately need it because you have enough to dress already, for example.

Or maybe you ordered a self indulgent pizza sometime during the last year, even if you could’ve eaten something less expensive at home and have used the spare money for donations. Yes, food is a basic need. But Pizza? Not so much.

I also, more importantly, want you to know that this post here that you made will likely contribute to people donating to AO3.

I’ll let you know that if you really care about where donations go and not in fact just care about getting good old call-out-culture validation to evaluate yourself via fake morality - you should post something with resources to where people can donate.

You could say something along the lines of “AO3 got this much money and already surpassed their goal, if you considered to donate, please consider donating to one of these things instead”. With a post like this you could’ve actually made a difference! You could’ve helped people you think deserve it!!

But instead you made a post as negative as can be and it will inevitably drive some people to donate to AO3 out of spite.

But in the end, do you actually care how your own actions influence things like that, or are you just here to make yourself feel morally superior without having any right or reason to?

Also, if all you wanted to say is “I don’t like AO3s policy and therefore donators should die” - then that’s another discussion. But if you would say that, you would also outright admit that you only used the chance to guilt-trip people because you have beef with AO3 and not actually because you care where the money goes.

[arimakanas]

You lost me after the first sentence, worstie <3

[piratetitties-deactivated202208]

@proship-maddog difference is ao3 actively hosts child porn and refuses to take it down. donating to a child porn site during a pandemic in which people are dying is shitty. welcome to the real world

[proship-maddog]

Excerpt from AO3′s Content TOS:

“The Archive of Our Own is a place for fanworks. Content may not be uploaded to OTW’s servers if it contains or links to child pornography (images of real children); […]. Uploading such Content is a violation of the ToS.

[…]

If you believe Content violates a specific law, you may report it to us. […]”

As you can see, AO3 does not “actively host child porn”. AO3 does not host child porn at all, and “actively” is an especially strange claim that would need them to, well, actively and explicitly invite people to upload said content.

AO3, as an archive, simply allows everything that is legal.

You need to understand that if you think something with the content they allow is wrong, you are attacking the wrong target. If you have a problem with sexual fiction about underage characters you have to address the laws that make it legal, not an archive and especially not the userbase of said archive of which the majority have done nothing harmful. And of which the majority also belong to at least two minorities at once, often more.

And “donating to a child porn site“ would be wrong not only during a pandemic, but under any circumstances. Luckily AO3 is not a child porn site & as I said up there at the end - if you just want to talk about the fact you don’t like their policy, then you don’t have to act as if it is about the people in need. It obviously isn’t about them, you all just use that as a means for validation.

Plus, you know what else is shitty, under any circumstances? Telling random people they should choke over petty reasons, even though they haven’t harmed anyone.

[gowongeef]

hey since louis tomlinson admitted that larries made him and harry’s friendship fall apart and dan howell said phannies digging into his relationship w phil made him experience ptsd symptoms and brought him to a terrible place, can u all stop w the shipping bullshit now

[lavender-luke]

psa: shipping real people is not only harmful to their mental state, but also harmful to their personal relationships, and writing sexually explicit fanfiction about people that exist in real life is creepy as well, and needs to stop. celebrities do not exist for your fetishization of them, and we need to start realizing that. you would not be comfortable if someone wrote a sexually explicit story about you, so why would a celebrity be comfortable with it? just because they’re famous does not mean you’re allowed to sexualize them and violate their privacy. 

[gonzoguy]

the day that tumblr learns that it isn’t progressive whatsoever to shame people for being attracted to men is the day the world heals. there’s nothing progressive about shaming gay and bisexual men using homophobic tactics and spreading biphobia toward bisexual women.

[gonzoguy]

you know what? shaming straight women for liking men isn’t cute either. i genuinely hope that every straight girl has a fulfilling and happy relationship. when you put the blame on women for even dating “grrr evil men” in the first place you ignore the amount of abuse that women face in relationships and you excuse the men who are misogynistic and pieces of shit by emphasizing the idea that it’s normal for men to treat women like garbage.

[biexboyfriend-deactivated202305]

how much of that 'bi women who want bi boyfriends are fetishising mlm' shit comes from biphobes who think bi men are actually just gay and could therefore never be interested in bi women too

[lagoonhag]

Besides the misogyny I feel like the key reason why you don't see female gender non conformity celebrated in popular culture/media the same way we're starting to see male gender non conformity celebrated is that it's not profitable or marketable... you can't exactly sell a lack of makeup and shaving products to women whereas selling all that femininity shit to men opens up a whole new demographic to make money off of

[kingofdersecest]

What kind of world are you living in OP? Women are encouraged all the fucking time to step out of their gender conformity. Havent you ever heard of tomboys? Girls can wear any clothing they want, or play with any toys.  But if a man even LOOKS at a barbie doll or a dress, he’s labled as gay, or trans or whatever. Men are ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED from acting outside of their gender. 

[no-steppy-snek]

Female gender nonconformity isn’t highly celebrated in the media because women already have that right. Women already CAN be gnc with no backlash in most places. Men don’t have that privilege. Male gender nonconformity is being celebrated in media right now because men currently don’t have the right to be GNC without backlash and we are trying to normalize it. 

Women can wear pants. Men cannot wear skirts.

Women can go without makeup. Men cannot wear makeup. 

Women can wear men’s clothes and be fashionable. Men cannot wear women’s clothes and be seen as fashionable. 

A lack of high heels is generally acceptable for a woman. Wearing high heels is not appropriate for a man.

Let us normalize male gender nonconformity without victimizing women, who already have their rights in that area.

[bruckitdown]

Bruh they really think pants and flat shoes make women gnc.

[no-steppy-snek]

It may not seem like extreme gender non conformity to you, like the men’s examples, and that’s because those sorts of actions for women are already normalized while the equivalent actions for men are not! Once upon a time, it WAS daring for women to wear pants, flat shoes, and men’s work shirts. Now, it’s not daring... because its normalized. Meanwhile, men doing the exact equivalent (wearing skirts and women’s clothes) is still seen as extremely daring and “wrong.” Men deserve activism to give them freedom to be GNC. That’s why there’s a lot of celebration of male gender non conformity. Activism that is not directed at you is not bigotry.

[anarchoarmageddons]

it became normalized for women to wear pants and such back in the 40s after ww2 since many women took the jobs of men. of course it wasnt immediate, and a lot of it was due to certain shows who's actresses started to dress more gnc during the time. nowadays it is very normalized. no one raises an eyebrow at a women wearing pants to work. on the other hand a man wearing a skirt will.

culture is just moving forward now the same way it did in the 40s for women. men being able to dress gnc without judgement doesnt harm gnc women. its literally just equality. and just to make sure you heard "activism not directed at you isnt bigotry"

[nb-jesus]

i do wanna point out that women are allowed to be gnc up until theyre perceived as smth other than straight. straight gnc women are celebrated, butch women are not. but otherwise good post

[rosyish]

No but seriously as I’ve gotten older I realize more and more that although white gays do face certain levels of oppression they are still white people.....like does that make sense?

[spikeunderpry]

?????????? yes, but yall only say this shit at this point to invalidate that we are oppressed, and adding on ''certain levels'' is fucking bullshit. yall would never have this conversation about black people, and that right there should show you why this is a stupid and homophobic thing to say

[nb-jesus]

its not homophobic to say white gay ppl have white privilege u fucking idiot

[spikeunderpry]

learn to read because thats not what i said

[nb-jesus]

yes it is i have a degree in "reading fuckwads posts"

[dopethrone-deactivated20241028]

If I’m a bi girl and I fuck a bi guy it’s literally gay sex btw like pemdas or whatever like it cancels out

[spikeunderpry]

once again we have to have this conversation about bi people in heterosexual relationships benefiting from straight privilege only to make jokes at actual gay peoples expense. this is the number one reason why bisexuals are hands down the absolute worst members of our community. (yall notice how pan people dont do this right? i swear bi people put on performative queerness from insecurity that people doubt theyre actually bi and they make it gay peoples problem)

[nb-jesus]

STRAIGHT PRIVILEGE ISNT REALLL ITS NOT A PRIVILEGE TO HAVE UR SEXUALITY ERASED!!!! GOD UR POSTS ARE THE FUCKING WORST I LITERALLY CANNOT BELIEVE UVE MADE IT THIS FAR W UR DOG SHIT TAKES