Kishimoto x Masafumi Goto for CUT Magazine (August 2012)
Interview by Shin Furukawa
Masashi Kishimoto x Masafumi Goto (ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION) First meeting on the occasion of their second collaboration in about 10 years! Why do "NARUTO" and ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION resonate so passionately?
Asian Kung-Fu Generation will be working on the theme song for the latest film in the Naruto series, Road to Ninja: Naruto the Movie. I'm sure there are many people who are excited by this news. About 10 years ago, the opening song for the first TV anime Naruto was Haruka Kanata, the first song on ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION's album Houkai Amplifier, which was re-released as an indie album when ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION made their major debut. The exceptional compatibility between the world of "NARUTO" and ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION's music, as seen in this opening video, can be said to have significantly influenced the subsequent trend of anime and rock collaborations. And the theme song for this film, Sorede Wa, Mata Ashita Mo (Well then, See you tomorrow), conveys how even after about 10 years, Naruto and ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION are still deeply synchronized.
On the day of this conversation, it was actually the first meeting between Masashi Kishimoto, the original creator of "NARUTO," and Masafumi Gotoh, the vocalist and guitarist of Asian Kung-Fu Generation.It became a conversation where words continuously flowed from both parties, endlessly discussing the parts where they resonated with each other.
―It turns out this is actually your first time meeting.
Kishimoto: That's right. Goto: I'm happy to meet you. Kishimoto: I don't have many opportunities to meet musicians, so I don't know what to say.
Goto: Hahaha, but (during the photoshoot) we were able to talk normally, right? Kishimoto: Yes. Goto: We were talking about the time when the 'NARUTO' anime (hereafter 'NARUTO') aired 10 years ago. Kishimoto: Yeah, exactly. It was really sensational, you know? It was around the time I started introducing a lot of characters, so I thought it would be great if the anime's theme song had a sense of speed. I wanted to create an image where a lot of characters would appear with such a song. So when I saw the video and "Haruka Kanata" combined for the first time, I thought "this is amazing". Goto: (laughs)
Kishimoto: It felt like a music video, really fast-paced and it matched the image perfectly. My younger brother and friends called me, and a lot of people said they really liked the opening. So I thought there might be some kind of chemical reaction when ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION's song and the "NARUTO" video came together.
―But it was originally a song that had been around for a long time, wasn't it? Goto: That's right. Kishimoto: Really? Goto: It was released about six months prior. At the time, magazines like Rockin' On hadn't even posted a review.
Goto: When we re-released it through a major label, it was like Rockin' On did a complete 180 and started posting reviews and stuff (laughs). But I thought it was really good too. It gave me goosebumps.
Kishimoto: But after that, ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION started cheating on us and doing openings for various anime series.
Kishimoto: At that time, I was a bit jealous, you know?
Kishimoto: It felt like my ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION was going somewhere else. So I've always wanted them to do it again someday.
―I think the reason for that kind of chemical reaction is because there were common themes between "NARUTO" and Asian Kung-Fu Generation.
Goto: For example, when we look overseas, we always think we're doing rock, but we incorporate quite a bit of Japanese methods and scales into it, so I think it's perceived as very Japanese music from abroad. And, since "NARUTO" also features ninjas, I think there's probably a synergistic effect there as well.
Kishimoto: I also draw manga that is very Japanese. But the main character has blue eyes and blonde hair, so it's a mix of Japanese and foreign nuances. So, although music and manga are completely different, I feel like ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION's songs and the worldview of 'NARUTO' are mixed together nicely, like a DJ.
―Did you choose blonde hair and blue eyes because you wanted to make a comic that would be popular overseas while still respecting Japan?
Kishimoto: I didn't have that image in mind at first. I just wanted to do ninjas and do something Japanese, but if I just did that, it would have become a typical ninja thing, so I intentionally added elements that were different from that.
―He said that when he started "NARUTO," he was in a state of complete exhaustion. So I think the situations of ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION and "NARUTO" were similar.
Goto: I empathize quite a bit with Naruto's situation.
Kishimoto: (laughs) Is that so?
Goto: Yeah, that kind of inferiority complex.
Kishimoto: I also had a hard time getting recognition back then. No matter how much I wanted the editorial department to publish my manuscript, they wouldn't let me, I often found myself not being recognized. So maybe that's why I made the protagonist feel like he wanted to be recognized, and wrote the story around that theme. So when I listened to ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION's "Haruka Kanata," the line "縺れる足" (Our feet are tied) stayed with me. The various grudges I have inside me and the parts of myself that I can't be honest about end up coming out as remarks as well. So the visuals and the music matched, but there was something about the lyrics that stayed with me as well. So I wanted ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION to do it again.
―Before writing "Haruka Kanata," ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION had a lot of medium-tempo songs. But at that time, punk and melodic hardcore bands were on the rise, so you tried that kind of fast-paced sound.
―So, "Our feet are tied" feels like you're forcing yourselves to run, but it's like you're trying to somehow break through the situation at the time.
Goto: Well, we were just struggling (laughs). We wanted to be recognized, too, and in our circumstances, we were working part-time jobs and not making much progress.
Kishimoto: I was in a similar situation.
―So, is Naruto the character that Goto-kun empathizes with the most?
Goto: Also, the roots of Naruto and Sasuke are the same. It's just that the way they are expressed is different, like yin and yang.
Kishimoto: That's right. There are parts where I'm depicting both shadow and light. When I was younger, I used to focus mostly on the negative aspects. But I draw with the concept of rising from that, he gets up from there, becomes able to express himself, and goes to the point where he is accepted. So, I have to properly depict the negative parts as well. In that sense, I think music is the same. I really empathize with Goto-san; he must have had a tough time too.
―I thought you two had met before.
Kishimoto: Not at all. When I first heard the band name 'Asian Kung-Fu Generation,' I thought they must really love Asia since it has 'Asian' and 'Kung-Fu' in it (laughs). I also like Asia and draw things related to Japanese culture, so I thought we might have a similar sensibility.
―We were talking a bit about Jackie Chan while we were waiting.
Goto: That's right. We added "Asian" because we thought it would be more interesting if we said we were an Asian band when we performed in front of Westerners. So when we were thinking of a band name, we definitely wanted to include "Asian". We also thought kung fu was interesting, and Westerners tend to remember our name.
Kishimoto: It has an impact. It has a big impact even for Japanese people. It got into my head right away.
Goto: I thought of it because I wanted it to be a name that people would remember (laughs).
Kishimoto: When I think of titles for my manga, I take the name 'NARUTO' from the naruto that comes with ramen. Rather than using something that doesn't make sense, I think it's easier to imagine it if I use an easy-to-understand noun like this.
Goto: Now it's all about 'NARUTO.' And I think 'Dattebayo!' is amazing.
Kishimoto: I wanted to give it a childish nuance.
Goto: It's not something you see often. It's like a set ending, the first time since Korosuke's (from 'Kiteretsu Large Encyclopedia') "Nanto Kanari" (laughs).
Kishimoto: Changing the endings like that to give a character a unique touch is often seen as quite simple-minded, but surprisingly, it actually works and is important. It adds a distinctive feature, and somehow have people accept it. It's like deliberately making it feel unnatural. At first, people go 'What is this?' but gradually it becomes a habit, which is what I'm hoping for.
―Whether it's music or comics, probably both are the same, but having a catchy phrase like "Dattebayo!" is important, and the meticulous construction of the logic behind ninjutsu is also crucial. I think the reason for your success is that you delve deeply into both aspects.
Kishimoto: That's right. If I'm really meticulous I feel satisfied, but the readers don't seem to keep up. It's a difficult balance. Goto-san, when you write songs, you want to write songs as maniac as you like, but do you also think that if you go too far, it might be a bit complicated (for listeners)?
Goto: Because we're a band, the other members sometimes stop me. They say things like, 'I don't get it at all.'
Kishimoto: So that happens (laughs)
Goto: That's because we're a four-piece band. And even when we release an album thinking we've really brought it back, we get comments like, 'No, my friends told me that what you're doing is way too difficult and they don't understand it.' Even when we think we've made it easy to understand, sometimes we end up going a little too far.
Kishimoto: That's true. When that happens, I just ask the editor.
―It's just like being in a band, isn't it?
Kishimoto: Yeah, that's right. I ask the editor, he checks it and say it's no good, but sometimes I can't give in easily either. There are times when we spend hours working it out until we both agree.
―How did you decide on Asian Kung-Fu Generation for the theme song of this movie?
Kishimoto: First, when we were discussing what to do about the music, since I'm not that knowledgeable about music, I asked the assistants, 'Who would be good?' Out of the eight assistants, three said, 'Asian Kung-Fu Generation would be good.' I had a feeling that Asian Kung-Fu Generation would be good too, but I was like, 'Really?' Then, the film production committee also asked, 'How about Asian Kung-Fu Generation?' I was like, 'Huh? Is this really happening?'
Kishimoto: We all agreed, 'It has to be ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION,' and it was unanimous. Also, when I was deciding on the music, I went to a convenience store and there was a flyer featuring ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION (laughs).
―How did you feel when you received an offer from "NARUTO" after such a long time?
Goto: I heard about it, and the song was already in the process of being completed. So I was like, "Oh, this song fits." Most of the lyrics were already written, but I was like, "This somehow fits the content".
Kishimoto: That's right. The lyric "異端者" (Heretic) really suited it. Naruto and Sasuke are like heretics to me. And the line "One, two, three, drive them out" - that "drive them out" - I think it fits perfectly with being banished or escaping from the village.
Goto: I was surprised too. What's more, that part is the most Japanese-like (laughs).
―It certainly fits the movie perfectly, but it's also simply a straightforward song for 2012 ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION.
Goto: Yes, yes. The idea of "NARUTO" came up towards the end of the project, and we were able to steer in the direction of staying true to ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION. The timing was perfect.
Kishimoto: It feels a bit strange, but it's like we've come back to the roots again (laughs). We started out strong and successful, and then ASIAN KUNG-FU GENERATION started doing well in all sorts of places, and I was a little jealous.
Goto: (laughs) "NARUTO" is more amazing, isn't it? We haven't sold millions (laughs)
―Where did the phrase "heretic" come from?
Goto: The current social climate is like a yes or no society, where you encounter weird people and just attack them. I was thinking about what that would be like, and when I applied it to 'NARUTO,' I realized it could also be seen in the context of Naruto and Sasuke.
―I think the theme of this song is linked to the current trend where if you try to fight or take action, you get beaten down or crushed. I believe this is a song written by Asian Kung-Fu Generation in that context. It also resonates with Naruto's situation and his unwavering determination to not give up.
Kishimoto: Yes, that's right. Naruto ended up being like the outcast of the village. His parents made him bear that burden, asking him to endure it to save the village. But he tries hard to carry that burden. However, the adults around him, out of fear, try to ostracize him. But surprisingly, he fights back with a bright spirit. There are times when he gets down, but fundamentally, he doesn't get discouraged or broken, which is something I wanted to portray. So, it feels like it fits perfectly with this 'Well then, see you tomorrow' theme.
Goto: The only thing I was really conscious of was the intro. That was because of "Haruka Kanata" (Far Away).
Kishimoto: Yeah yeah (laughs).
Goto: It was a bass intro, so I thought it would be good to have another bass intro. It was like our own "second meeting" kind of thing.
Kishimoto: I'm grateful (laughs).
Goto: I said it would be good to have another bass intro for our reunion, so I had Yamada (Takahiro) play it.
Kishimoto: That makes me really happy (laughs).
Goto: I said, 'I hope only people who get it will get it and smile.'
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