Have a lovely weekend, everyone!
音楽と人- September 2020
Interview with Sakurai Atsushi
Text by Ishii Eriko
Translation by Lola
Run Away With Me, For Eternity
At long last it is complete, on the 21st of September, BUCK-TICK's 22nd original album "ABRACADABRA" is sent out into the world. As mentioned in the previous issue, recording had been suspended for a time due to the situation with the corona virus thus compelling the addition of a rock and roll number, and the decision to give the album a title that sounds like a magic spell among other things like trying not to be influenced by the state of the world. Just as Sakurai was telling me how he would rather not be influenced by corona his mood clearly plummeted, he was thinking of a person he is unable to meet due to distance, and how the music was a way to bring them closer . . . but it feels like it was all for naught.
From a positively wicked and reckless idea of running away, of dancing while laughing through the darkness, comes this fantastic unrestrained alternative that somehow seems to be present throughout all of the songs in this unbelievably energetic way. It differs from gothic or new wave sound, coming across as mysteriously mature in a way that breaks from anything they've done before, and gives the impression that this is yet again a new chapter for them.
When Imai Hisashi first brought forth the key words of "breaking from the norm", Sakurai Atsushi then discovered within that the idea of "escape". I think his being able to use these words in an affirmative way is what drives the entire energy of this album.
So you completed a really good, and fun album.
How do you feel about that?
I feel . . . . . .satisfied. Personally, I feel like it's incredibly energetic, and all these various energies give this impression of flying all over the place.
Yes. Going back a bit, during the interview when "Datenshi" came out, you held back from saying too much about the following single "MOONLIGHT ESCAPE" although you did say you thought it was a good song, even so far as saying you believed it your best thus far.
I don't disagree of course, but I did wonder about your reason for thinking that, Sakurai-san?
Right . . . . . . I'd say it's because the melody and the story blend together incredibly well, it's a good fusion. You know, I think I was able to depict well the image I had in my mind. There are also different listeners too right, and I think their way of grasping the story will differ as well but, this was something I was really able to project myself into so I thought maybe this would bring me closer not just to the listeners but to those who empathize as well. I think that's why I feel satisfied with it.
Certainly with it being so personal for you, it will bring your listeners closer to you. I also have this impression like you're offering your hand from on high, reaching out to guide them to their escape. There's this feeling of being pulled up firmly, and being properly sheltered in the song.
Ah. I'm so happy you said that. Well, maybe this is presumptuous of me but, there is someone who looks up to me to be that, that hand, so if they are able to get that feeling from this story in part then I would be incredibly happy to hear about that.
These are your true feelings then. By being a song for a certain person, it is a song about being a guide.
Yes, that's right. Speaking of the person concerned, I've had these thoughts for a long while too because they've kept persevering this whole time. So that's why . . . . . .I hope maybe with this I can convince them of that.
You are completely and totally affirming escape. There is absolutely no guilt-tripping in the words.
Exactly. That was my first step, and from there I thought of various things. Escapism tends to be viewed negatively by the world, but the thing is being able to stay positive and to keep doing your best despite that is a virtue as well. I mean simply having that kind of self-assertiveness is incredibly difficult, so as far as I'm concerned it's formidable. I think I've come to appreciate that to the point of being able to say bluntly, "It's alright."
I also felt like the whole album had that tone of escapist words.
Oh, I see . . . . . .I think, it might. Yes, I see *smiles*.
You hadn't thought about it at all?
I hadn't thought about it on the whole, no. But as I said previously, I did think the album has various types of energy throughout that feels like flying around so I wonder if that's why . . . . . .you've just taught me something.
Of course you're allowed to say words like, "Please do your best to think positive" in general in the world but, I think it's better when there's other various energies too. In order to live, or even in order to choose a different path . . . . . .I just want to do it even if it's just within a story like . . . . . .wait, what was I saying?
Well, we were talking about how the whole album has a very strong escapist vibe.
Well, it's pessimistic. I mean, wouldn't you say I'm a pessimist?
No? When I listen to the album, it's super uplifting.
Oh, really? Ah. . . . . .for I am speaking up for those that need it[1].
I'm grateful for that *smiles*. Also you didn't really write gloomy lyrics this time, Sakurai-san. Although when I read the lyrics as always you are death adjacent, just as you always write about parting.
Yes, yes. I'm not sure how to say it? It's a little positive in part. Like just by being a minus it ends up being a plus. I really don't know how to explain it *smiles*. I do think it's better when it's not all pretty things and cheerful things. I think I was able to vent you know, by using that energy of affirmation. I don't think there was enough of that till now percentage-wise, and along the way I ended up retracing my steps and seeing how I had completely glossed over some things too, but now, I'm coming to grips with it bit by bit. So I hope for those who listen, and for those who carry it with them as well, that they may think, "Oh, this is pretty good." Because even I tried to push myself to the best of my ability with this you know.
Is this in relation to the corona pandemic?
No, it's almost completely unrelated. Because the whole time I kept thinking about how I didn't want it to affect me. Though I think that wasn't the case entirely. Well, there's one song that's different in this way, "Eureka".
Imai-san said that he'd written it in one shot because he had gotten more and more annoyed at all the restrictions put in place due to corona.
Yes. Imai-san told me, "I want to do something that will feel like a relief." So from there that's when the word "ABRACADABRA" came to me, and that was certainly influenced by the situation. But in terms of being related to the corona virus, that's really about it?
Like about the pandemic spreading you mean.
Yes. Like, maybe with this seemingly fake magic word things will be ok *smiles*.
To say that you didn't want to be influenced by the corona virus though, that takes a strong will doesn't it?
Right. . . . . . . .um, the thing about this kind of misfortune and disaster that is happening to everyone is that it seems like everyone is ending up depressed, so I became kinder but I mean, it's an incredible pain in the ass.
Or rather it sounds contrived. Yet in spite of everyone getting more and more annoyed, there just ends up being this tendency to become kind, oddly. So it's like, " . . . . . .are they just donning a persona?" *smiles* So it was my thinking that if that's the case then I'll put all my thoughts on the minus side.
In the end though, your minus x minus created a super plus as a result.
That's right. Because I think that if I write a song that's negative, then the people who listen who have such negative thoughts end up feeling really uplifted by it.
That's true. "Villain" is like a guarantee of that right? So the title came from Imai-san, and then you drew from this by using the word "biran[2]" in Japanese right?
Yes. I'm not sure anymore whether it's because that's what lingered in my mind when I first heard the title or whether it was just because I wanted to use that word but either way it was not something planned on. It's something that just came to me you know.
So you don't think this song is the ultimate masterpiece in collaboration between the two of you?
Oh. I mean I hadn't even seen Imai-san's lyrics from the start though, I don't even think he'd given them to me yet. So I was just writing lyrics for the parts I knew I'd be singing. We never even discussed anything in advance about it, so it just felt like it was tossed at me, like ok, here you go, bye[3]!
. . . . . .you're telling me you made something this good, without even talking about it?
Yes. I think it turned into a fascinating song this way.
You also peppered in references to your older songs which made me grin like with the word "scoundrel" and "being dissolute", which creates this double meaning, and that to me is THE absolute beauty of BUCK-TICK.
Right. But well that's because you're able to imagine a wide variety of things from the title isn't it? Because during recording I was thinking about what kind of story I wanted to tell. Something you could get addicted to, in a good way.
So they ought to be a scoundrel. Rather than be virtuous, be a villain?
No, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. They are virtuous, as they should be.
Ha ha ha. I'm talking about within the story itself.
Well rather than say be a scoundrel . . . . . .it's more that I'm saying it's not bad to judge evil as evil. Like for me, in this current era, there are people who attack others anonymously[4], and so that's what I wanted to sing about.
Ah, you're right that does happen these days.
But of course, a person who is genuine would never become a villain. As for the yearning to confront the villain, that's something that's been there for a long time too you know. So I think that's also a contrast for me to put that in this song.
"URAHARA-JUKU" was also interesting. Although at first I did think the lyrics were Imai-san's.
They're, well . . . . . .from both experience and imagination I guess? Yeah, I was just imagining all these strange things, night after night.
*cackles* So what, you're thinking night after night and what came out of that are the "girly girls[5]" of Uraharajuku?
Of course there's always evil lurking somewhere right, the city is full of danger. So that was my setting, a city where young women flock. A place with incredible energy, with extreme hustle and bustle, but the thing is even within that there's usually someone evil skulking.
That sort of stalker behavior isn't anything new though is it? Recently a story came out about how it's an issue on SNS[6] as well, with people using it to abuse others.
Of course, I think it's also on the news pretty often, about how much this sort of thing hurts people daily. However, when it's in a song it becomes more wondrous, it gives the impression of being forced into the phantom's world.
That's true. Yeah. But I think even I wanted to approach this with a touch of realism. As I said before it is in part experience . . . . . .well, not that I've experienced the world at all in the way that young women do so that part is imagined. But it's something that bothers me. Which is why I wanted to do it I guess.
Along that vein, it makes me wonder about "Maimu maimu".
*snickers* Is it too telling if I say . . . . . .this too is based on experience?
Well no, it's the best thing for this kabuki[7] style.
Yes. So this is also based a little bit on experience, and filled with the power of imagination. So please use yours too *smiles*.
Now this is a song that is playful and full of vigor.
I'm trying not to be so reserved anymore. It's like, whether it's real or not, I think when I started to poke around at all the nooks and layers it felt like in order for me to enjoy it, I had to go all out for this story.
I thought this whole manner of eagerness and playfulness was kind of Imai-eske.
Oh. . . . .do you think I've transformed into Imai?
I have a theory you've assimilated each other.
Really? Well, I don't think I have Imai-san's powers. I think I'm just a little bolder now.
Conversely, when you look at "SOPHIA DREAM", the lyrics are Imai-san's but oddly they sound Sakurai-eske.
. . . . . .*carefully reads the lyrics once again* Ah. I see what you're trying to say, yes. Because he says things like "love" right. And "to love one another". Ha ha ha. I see.
So you get what I'm saying?
I do, yes. I'm not sure why it's like this though. I think I may have become more abstract perhaps than I have been till now. . . . . . .meanwhile he's become more romantic hasn't he? Imai-san.
You're asking me? *smiles* Conversely, I'd say you have become bold, Sakurai-san.
Yes. Well, bold. I feel like I just tried to be more direct.
Be that as it may, "Tsuki no Sabaku" is the perfect Sakurai-style song. You're able to hear how it is the one story that is purely escapist.
Ah. If I say this has a touch of reality, it's because I'm asking, "Where have you been, I wonder?"
This is something you can do in fiction, by being about escape it's like you were wishing for a sparkling world this time.
Right. Well, I'm not trying to argue that point but, it was like I wanted to ask what's so bad about running away? Is it so bad to escape? Something like that. Of course one way to do that in reality is through dreams so it felt like I was asking with all of my heart, please run away. Because there are a lot of people, and children too, that for them they can't be free any other way. So I hope they'll enjoy this as best they can. Within this grown-up world.
I know I've already asked a number of times but just to be sure, your gloomy mood isn't related to the corona virus at all?
No, it isn't. It wasn't even a concern at the time. Because I wrote "MOONLIGHT ESCAPE" at some point last year. It was a time when there was not even a single word about corona. Originally we had decided to do a fan club only tour in May, and I felt like if I couldn't do it, I'd feel terrible you know but that's how things went. But back in February and March, I got music to write lyrics for, then I started recording vocals as well. Of course, bit by bit the situation at work changed, but back in March there was still this kind of mood like, "Let's look forward to the Olympics!"
But then celebrities like Shimura Ken-san[8] passed away, and that's when I first started to feel it hit home. That's why I didn't want it to affect my work at all. I mean I just wanted to get the work done without it influencing me. But of course even so, there was that part of me that was tense. However, by the time the state of emergency was declared I had already finished the vocals for two or three songs. And I had plans for what to write in my lyrics as well. Because of that the only new song that came out of the situation was "Eureka" as I mentioned before.
I did wonder if you ended up thinking, "I did this because of corona" due to the current situation.
I did, yes. It was already during a period when I was feeling kind of off, and so I guess the situation was getting to me more and more.
Would you say that you felt that you simply wanted to create a work of fiction that was fascinating with BUCK-TICK's mindset?
Rather than say it's BUCK-TICK's, I'd say I wanted to enjoy it myself.
What's great about it to me is, you don't seem to be dragged as much towards death this time, Sakurai-san.
. . . . . . there is literally a song that starts with, "I'm unsure whether to live or die" though.
Ha ha ha ha! Of course yes, in "Kogoeru." And yet even despite being steeped in death, there is also a certain feeling of it being justified.
Yes, there is. Because it's another way to escape as well right. But you know I was also thinking about the mothers of entrance exam students and how they shouldn't be listening to this song because of the lines like "I keep falling down" and "I'm slipping".
That's what you were thinking about?!
More or less *smiles*. I also thought about how it's kind of in poor taste.
But hasn't the concept of "falling down" been a part of all of BUCK-TICK's lyrics? *smiles*
*chuckles* That did end up crossing my mind too, and then I was like, "It's fine, even so."
From the pain of falling to taking joy and refuge in fantasy, I mean that takes a singular kind of strength you know. That's what I feel.
Is that what you wanted to convey, personally?
It is, yes. I think because in the past, when it came to running away I used to also think, "See, you're just a coward." But now like, if I could say something to my younger self it'd be, "It's absolutely alright to run away!" Or I wish I could say, "It's even ok if you don't go to school!" But rather than keep saying that firmly, I would like to say, "It's not impossible, you can do it."
If we look back at the period of time around "Datenshi" last year, you were being pulled towards your dark side, Sakurai-san. You had also become the same age as your father when he died, and you were quite depressed.
It appears as though you have changed between then and now, is it in great part due to "MOONLIGHT ESCAPE"?
It is. Yes. Because I put my feelings into it without over thinking. "MOONLIGHT ESCAPE" is incredibly personal to me, my heart's in it, and it appears as though I've been always saying this for a long time but because I was able to really get into the story and the music a lot better, it's more true to my feelings. And that's what gave me the energy to face the album bit by bit. I was able to think of all sorts of directions to go in and think, "This is good." I think that's why even the negative parts became an affirmation.
It's incredible that one song could do that isn't it.
It is. I guess it's because I had my feelers out due to being in work mode but, when it comes to the negative parts, these were things happening in reality . . . . . .a kid dying due to being abused, even though they sent out an SOS their life couldn't be saved, and that's just one example, I saw several cases like it. And I kept thinking how they would be better off if they didn't put up with it and were able to run away you know. My own negativity and that sort of negativity negotiated things and I mean, even for me it was incredibly liberating.
By immersing yourself in your work, your feelings also shifted upwards.
You're right. Yeah. I thought I'd do things with enthusiasm. It began the same as always, with Hoshino's songs coming to me first. Of course, I couldn't really tell what form the whole album would take yet but, during that time I started on "Tsuki no Sabaku" and "Kogoeru". After that I got Imai-san's songs, and I asked myself, ok, what do you really want to do? Whatever it is, do it with everything you've got. I didn't know how many songs I'd be able to do that for, but I wanted keep that stamina going.
Is that why even though you began "Kogoeru" with " I'm unsure whether to live or die", once we're able to look at the album as a whole, we can see that your writing is also incredibly vivid?
*chuckles* I suppose so. Yes. I had this feeling like, "I'll commit to writing this!" "I'll commit to singing this!" And because the images manifested into the words of a story so perfectly, I felt like, "I'd love to sing these lyrics as soon as possible." That was a new thing for me.
Isn't that super positive?
Well, it is for "Maimu maimu".
Mmhm. I was able to have fun with it.
I think by having these various escapist stories that we can enjoy, the whole flow hits the mark perfectly. Which reminds me, I heard that there were some differing opinions regarding which song should be last.
Yes, yes. So at first it had been decided that "Boukyaku" should be the last one but then it turned out that Imai-san and our manipulator, Yoko-kun, had been scheming the nights away working on "Eureka" and "PEACE". These two songs are linked, but as for me, I didn't know that when the time came to be choosing the last song right. But then I began to realize by putting "Eureka" last . . . . . .it ties everything together with "PEACE" right? I was on the verge of being like, well, ok, but only because they're connected when in comes Yuuta saying no, he wants the album to end with "Boukyaku." I wanted it to be "Boukyaku" too but the way things were shaping up it looked unfavorable *smiles*, but somehow everyone ended up going along with the opinions of us two spoiled children.
When it came to being playful, you did your best to do so with enthusiasm but even so, you still wanted to keep some weight by keeping this song as the last one?
Exactly. Well, because I figured there were plenty of playful parts throughout so to finish, I wanted to get people to feel at peace. Whereas I also thought that if we end with "Eureka" then there's only one mood.
So that's why you wanted to shift to a soft mood.
Yes. I'm quite pleased with "Boukyaku."
I thought it was a new stand point for you, Sakurai-san, to say towards the end of the song, "those days are irreplaceable."
Ah, but while I'm saying of course . . . . . .they're not, somehow I do wonder if maybe that might have been influenced by the corona virus. Because in some respects there's this feeling of futility that came to be pervasive by moments. Well, that's something I've always felt and thought but, with the current environment of this era, and given my own way of living, I guess I've come to express it a little differently.
As of right now, no one knows when concerts will be able to be held properly again but, what are your thoughts on that?
Hm. . . . . .to start with this has nothing to do with the lyrics of "Boukyaku" but, we really thought we'd do concerts the same as usual without exception, but then that feeling sunk in bit by bit. Due to the number of infected persons, I think I was scared and I couldn't put my mind at ease but I mean, that's natural . . . . . of course given everything. So I think it's best because of all that, that we follow the rules as much as possible, and don't stop social distancing.
Well in part, that's why the album is so powerful you know.
Yes. So please listen to it at home.
You can go somewhere, just by staying home and listening.
That's really it, exactly.
[1] Here as well as several places throughout the entire interview, Sakurai uses humble form. He is generally a very polite and well spoken person when he speaks but I thought it was interesting to note how much he uses humble form within this interview. I won't note each use, but it is used a lot and makes sense when you consider his words about not wishing to be presumptuous and seeking to elevate others.
[2] "Villain" is pronounced "Biran" in Japanese, but "biran" with the kanji used in the lyrics means "abscess" or "inflammation". It is a play on words. And if you consider Sakurai's lyrics within the song, and the idea he had, it is like saying the villain character is toxic to others.
[3] Literally, he says something like it was given to him and it was like "Ready, steady, go!" but . . .while that's something you can say in Japan, the expression doesn't work as well within the context in English. So I tried to think of a more current way of expressing this same sentiment in English.
[4] This word can also mean to use a false name. So it's not only about anon hate, but hate from those who hide their true identities behind their internet handles.
[5] The word used "ojouchan" isn't necessarily negative on its own, it is simply a term of familiarity. Like if a grandmother called you that it'd be akin to calling you "sweetheart". However, in the context of the song, the word is creepy and gross due to the tone it is said in and the fact that it is used by a man who is a stranger presumptuous and entitled enough to use it. In English we have something similar, like when men give women unsolicited attention and call them "honey", "sweet thing", "baby", "doll", "girly girl", etc. Even in French there is a distinct difference between being called, "ma belle" by someone you know and are comfortable with vs some older man on the street calling that out to you. It is both overly familiar from someone you don't know, and that touch condescending.
[6] Social Network Services.
[7] In kabuki theater, the roles of both men and women were played by women. Many of the plays centered around suggestive themes, and were enhanced by the fact the actors themselves were often sex workers. Eventually, the style evolved due to bans against young boy and women actors, and so the double gender role was undertaken by men instead. The sex work still continued though, and what's amusing is the actors were so desired, and their plays so enticing, full out fights would break out during performances with both men and women vying for favor from the performers.
[8] A beloved comedian within Japan, Shimura Ken regrettably passed away due to complications related to covid-19.
