V (& OTHERS)
IT/ITS, CHIME/CHIMES, MIRROR PRONOUNS
I AM AN ADULT FOR MY SPECIES! I PREFER IF ONLY OTHER ADULTS INTERACT (+18)
queer, Mad, plural, spiritual, not human, tma
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V (& OTHERS)
IT/ITS, CHIME/CHIMES, MIRROR PRONOUNS
I AM AN ADULT FOR MY SPECIES! I PREFER IF ONLY OTHER ADULTS INTERACT (+18)
queer, Mad, plural, spiritual, not human, tma
website | substack | donate | strawpage
Hi there! I have a question, which is asking for your personal opinion, but Im also curious if you have any specific resources. How does one reconcile "believe and support victims" with "unfortunately false memories and delusions can be a reality"
I think about this when dozens of women come out with allegations about the same famous man for example, there seems to be a tipping point where I start to become skeptical of of so many people saying over and over that one person did something to them, not that *nothing* happened, but that maybe it's easy to get swept up in a movement more or less.
These are of course inside thoughts because I was flat out accused of lying and exaggerating as a child when I tried to come forward about the sexual abuse I encountered growing up in the church, and I would never want anyone to feel that level of dismissal, but it is something Ive been thinking about since the advent of Me Too and doubly so with the Epstien case that seems to have so many false reports combined with real abuse.
If asking for your opinion on this is too heavy or personal I completely understand! Thank you for taking the time to read this, regardless, and thank you for the hours and hours of work you put in to helping people navigate conspiracy.
If numerous people who worked or associated with a powerful person come out and say that they hurt them in relatively ordinary ways (such as rape, battery, etc), there's no particular reason to doubt it. Power easily lets people get away with that. For example, we should believe the people who've spoken out against Neil Gaiman.
But when it comes to extraordinary claims that have failed to yield extraordinary evidence and are in fact frequently discredited every time actual investigations happen (such as ritual abuse and alter programming, in the original definitions of these terms) I think the main thing is to remember that just because people are wrong about what happened doesn't mean nothing happened.
Some people take memories of real abuse and reinterpret them through the lens of conspiracy theories.
Some people believe they must have hidden trauma because they don't believe the things they actually do remember were bad enough to traumatize them.
Some people have trauma they can't remember for one reason or another, and were led to believe that the only explanation was ritual abuse/alter programming.
Let's take a look at Michelle Smith, for example. She had very real causes for trauma. Her father was abusive and left the family when she was a child. Her mother died when she was fourteen. Her first pregnancy resulted in miscarriage. When she was hospitalized, she was put into the same room her mother died in, which made her feel that she was going to die.
Dr. Lawrence Pazder convinced her that she must have had repressed memories, and got her to "remember" a bunch of ritual abuse that has been thoroughly discredited. These confabulated "memories" caused even more distress.
We can accept that these people are in real pain from real trauma, and that they are being taken advantage of by conspiracy theories and medical quackery designed to exploit them. This might upset them, but it's not our job to manage other people's feelings, especially when they're spreading dangerous conspiracy theories.
For anybody else reading this: religious abuse is real, human trafficking is real, sexual abuse is real, and your symptoms are real. What's demonstrably not real is the alleged practice of using torture to deliberately give people DID and creating customized alters to fill certain roles and perform certain tasks. To learn more about how we know this, click here.
RAMCOA discourse is so fucking frustrating because 99% of the time it feels like I'm sitting in a room with someone who only knows how to describe minorities through slurs. and they aren't actually saying anything really offensive, most of the time, but I have been struggling to find a way to tell them they cannot call me the t slur for the past ten minutes and every time we get close to the subject they get really mad at me because how dare I judge their language?
and it's like... buddy, I am not judging your language. I am trying to tell you that the language you are using is not neutral and is offensive, and that I am not really offended because I understand your point, but please, please, stop using that word, because you're going to end up using it around the wrong guy and either leave with a busted lip or wind up pals with a fucking Nazi, and I want neither of these things for you.
please stop using the antisemitic slur to refer to all fucking jews! likewise, "RAMCOA" people, please stop using the antisemitic conspiracy term to describe the real abuse you went through. I believe you, but if you keep using that term, other people just aren't going to respond well to it. it isn't your fault you don't have other language yet but you can't use this, the cons outweigh the pros. please.
"ramcoa is antisemitic?" "no its not!" its an acronym. whether you call it ramcoa or oea or ritual/organized abuse or whatever shouldn't matter.
what we should do is trust people's trauma experiences, whatever label we give them.
whether something is an acronym or not doesn't make it neutral. "RAMCOA" isn't just letters, it sits within a specific explanatory framework about hidden and coordinated abuse systems that developed directly alongside Satanic Panic-era narratives. The antisemitism isn't in the phonetics, but the structure of the ideas it bundles together.
you can trust people's reports of trauma without adopting that framework.
"Did the abuse happen?" (often yes, and it should always be taken seriously) and "Is there a coordinated, systemic model like RAMCOA which can be used to explain it?" are separate questions, and this disagreement isn't about whether victims should actually be believed, but about whether a specific explanatory model is actually necessary or if it obscures clearer descriptions of harm.
actually i’m not done because the whole “RAMCOA / OEA isn’t real” shit is exactly what abusers rely to control their victims btw. the fact that no one will believe the victim when they try and get help is used against them. the lie of trauma not being real is used to gaslight them. the idea that if a victim tries to shed light on an organized group they will be socially outcasted is not only what drags people into these groups, but gets them to stay. it is you against the world, it is your word against theirs.
take your privileged head out of your ass and stop helping abusers. victims have already been through enough.
it's really interesting that you say this, I disagree strongly.
If you say "I experienced RAMCOA," nothing specific is actually being communicated. no actors, no actions, no context. it turns concrete events into a single system label. That makes it harder for people to understand what happened and much harder to hold anyone accountable.
If you say "I was trafficked by my family" or "I was abused in an organized cult setting," the information becomes concrete: who did it, what was done, and what kind of harm we're talking about. that is already credible, actionable, and serious without needing an additional umbrella theory that collapses everything into one explanation.
disagreement/lack of belief in the framework of RAMCOA doesn't equate to disbelief in abuse itself. a lot of people who talk about this stuff are survivors of horrific abuse, myself included, and that's why we are so passionate about these things. you can fully accept that severe abuse happened while still pointing out that labels like RAMCOA often blur responsibility and make communication less precise.
it's important that the language we use to describe harm preserves clarity about what occurred so it can actually be addressed.
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