🐧

[pencoklatt]

That one account on tktok named "E'Llewellyn 🧿" or whatever her actual account name, is actually insane and need to touch a grass. Because let's be fr, that manhwa or more specifically the self insert reader always and still known to always drag non-manhwa fandom, like I've seen them suddenly drag Aisha manhua, ORV, Naruto, Veil manga just so they could defend their fav ships/character. But just recently...

They dragging Winx Club now???

The sudden Stella mentioned, because I'm sorry but Stella isn't the same as Layla. They're character and the personality as a whole is different. It felt like, "E'Llewellyn 🧿" person did that because both are blondie and is both main character (though Bloom is the MC but Stella is still a part of the MV group gang). So they have the urge to... Dragging Stella into this mess so they could defend Layla but not defend the character alone only...?

Sure, go ahead and defend your Layla Llewellyn but don't ever bring another character from non-manhwa to this stuff. Winx Club fandom haven't got recovered yet from the recent reboot part 2. What do they know lah about Stella??? 😭

[pencoklatt]

People be arguing about Dohwa and Eunhyuk red flag (both are equally red flag with same annoying fangirl), my only concern was Operation True Love slowly turned to True Beauty 2.0 in terms of how the author and webtoon will milk the title out. Also with the possibility of what will happen to Soo-Ae as MC as the plot get dragged more to milk the title popularity

[sylver-drawer]

I wish manhwa and WMMAP readers and glazers had the slightest bit of brain. Like yeah! The tropes WMMAP features are tropes now! But they weren’t tropes back then! That’s the damning thing about the Plutus vs Yunsul situation—WMMAP’s similarities with DOTE were way too damning at a time where the tropes weren’t as popular/made yet, and you wouldn’t find any stories like it. Even now, some of the plagiarized story elements are uncommon or rare!

You’d never find a story where the baby female lead’s deceased mom was a foreigner, first of all. You’d never find a story where the female lead’s maid/nanny had a connection to the female lead’s deceased mother—usually the supporting maid isn’t even an adult, they’re typically a peppy young teenager serving the child lead. In addition to that, I have NEVER read another story in the rofan genre where the half-sibling rival wasn’t actually a half-sibling, but the bastard of the evil relative raised to think they’re half-siblings with the lead. Like huh? That’s not even a trope—no other rofan stories have done this. You’re going to say all of these elements in a newly released story wouldn’t have you think of WMMAP right away? Like it’s not just the “oh it’s a tyrant’s daughter novel”, it’s literally that and every other similarity in addition to it!

And that’s not even going into the fact that what’s also uncanny is the writing itself! Athy was so beloved at the time because her behavior was ‘refreshing’—that in the genre of rofan back then, if there was a villainous/tyrant guardian, the female lead would react in fear but Athy reacted in anger, calling said oppressive tyrant bratty names. That’s one of WMMAP’s hallmarks—but even that came from DOTE first! The insults are the same! How do you even do that? How do you copy almost all of the integral setting, character, relationship, and plot elements down to throwaway insults and claim it was all original, that it was all a coincidence? Before the tropes even existed!

I can’t believe that. As a reader, and as a writer, that’s impossible. If it was one or two things, sure—but if it’s the things that are so integral to the story and characters in it that taking them away would drastically change the story, all of them combined, that’s not original.

Just because you like WMMAP better or reason that it’s more popular doesn’t suddenly make it ok or make the case not matter. Speaking of it not mattering, so many people are saying that it’s old news that got settled via trial, but it never did! Carrotoon and Spoon took to trial what I believe fans’ comments and harassment—but in regard to Yunsul and Plutus, there was never a trial specifically between them on the plagiarism. To this day, Yunsul and her team have never been contacted for a trial—and they still face comments in regard to their relationship with WMMAP making them out to be bad guys when they were the originals!

I wish manhwa readers could be adults. I wish manhwa readers could take a step back and squeeze into their tiny little brains that not everything is based on their view, and that there’s context that frames everything so much differently.

[pencoklatt]

Cry or Better Yet Beg could work as PROPER "Dark" Romance IF—

—It was NOT RELEASED on that green comic platform, but I will make long ahh post to explain:

1. Why the manhwa can't be called as proper Dark Romance because of the platform

2. What's resulting to the manhwa adaptation to fit with the platform's "widely used by minor" app (short answer: sugarcoat)

3. W*btoo* "predatory" marketing toward younger reader of that green comic platform app

For now, I will leave it here since I have more priority to focus more... If anything, Cry Or Better Yet Beg have identity crisis on the genre and tropes they use.

[pencoklatt]

Another short rant, as someone who still read UTOT (Under The Oak Tree), The Forgotten Field felt like a small downgrade on how the FMC was written. But also the hypocrite from TFF fans to call Thalia as realistic but proceed to talk scrap about Maxi being unrealistic, for my opinion Maxi is more realistic. I'm gonna admit Thalia is realistic, but not enough to be the same as Maxi. Also the audacity of them on tktok platform to hate Lydia (from Mother's Contract Marriage) but at at the same time...

FANGIRLING AND WAIFU SENEVIER???

Like suddenly it's already clear that people hate Lydia (but proceed to love Senevier and Claude) mostly because their manhwa are drawn by Spoon. If "Mother's Contract Marriage" were drawn by Spoon, I know they will love Lydia, but since she isn't drawn by Spoon so people hate her. While ironically being a fans of Senevier.

"The Forgotten Field" could be better if it had better fandom, I hate how people also proceed to babyfying Thalia like she's innocent. Which makes me questioning, are we even read the same manhwa? How did they proceed to babyfying Thalia when the narrative from both manhwa and novel didn't do that to Thalia, yes her backstory is sad but it served for us to understand but not justifying her. The narrative

"We want complex female character!"

And then they decide to SELF INSERT as Thalia when reading the manhwa and babyfying her, when the plot itself isn't for typical self insert reader. Her backstory was there for us to understand her, but not to justifying her "villainess" act. Tbh, at this point I'm more interested with her little brother because all thanks to those self-insert reader amd toxic hypocrite fans for ruining my enjoyment to Thalia as character.

I'd think Thalia deserve a better fans who don't self insert as her when they read the manhwa. Because I'd not like how those self insert reader also treat Varka as character.

[pencoklatt]

Short rant but I wish the manhwa adaptation did Layla a justice. Her character as MC in manhwa is just... Awful, just WHY??? SHE'S THE MAIN CHARACTER, WHY SUDDENLY A LITERAL LOVE INTEREST (aka Mamet— I refuse to type his actual name here) GETTING MORE SPOTLIGHT AND GIANT PLOT ARMOUR THAN HERSELF?! The novel is already fumbling her and worsened with that "side story" and how she "love him all this time" on that remaining few last chapter. Now the manhwa adaptation did the same on fumbling Layla as main character (and maybe more worse than the novel), simply because Matthias is Van Ji fav character. Because I'd not remember the "chasing" scene was described as something comedy tone in novel, but somehow its... Comedy in the manhwa instead.

[the-mikky-verse]

When ‘Dark Romance’ Is Just an Excuse for Abuse: How Cry or Better Yet Beg fails Matthias as a Love Interest (Rant Included)

Oh, and do I have a lot to say about this mutha fucka right here. ESPECIALLY with the most recent chapters on Webtoon.

I ain't go lie, I half expected Cry or Better Yet Beg be like a slow burn enemies to lovers historical romance fiction. But I gotta ask all the Matthias x Layla shippers and Matthias fans:

HOW IS MATTHIAS VON HERHARDT THE LOVE INTEREST AND WHY ARE WE ROOTING FOR HIM?! 👁👄👁

Like I never see this guy show or express any romantic that doesn't involve him being a bully and humiliating and abusing Layla because apparently he enjoys making her miserable and cry.

And people are like: He doesn't know how to express himself because he never experienced love so it's all so new to him.

Umm, no bestie. That man has no love for ANYTHING at all, period. Especially not for Layla, you know, the WOMAN HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE IN LOVE WITH!

And when people rightfully call out and criticise Matthias as a character and the story as a whole, they get hit with the: It's a Dark Romance.

Umm, no, sweetie. This is not a dark romance. It's abuse cosplaying as a dark romance. There is NOTHING romantic about a man who enjoys bullying, verbally and emotionally abusing the woman he's supposed to be in love with, and sees her as less of a human being.

Matthias himself actually admitted and told Layla TO HER FACE why he despises her when she asked.

You want proof?

BOOM! RECEIPTS:

Again, I ask: WHY ARE WE ROOTING FOR THIS MAN. WHY?!

Where is the romance coz I ain't seeing shit!

And that brings me to my next point. The argument that people hate Matthias because he's not acting like "the typical green flag love interest in fluffy romance stories."

Lemme just show y'all two comments I found on reddit for reference.

Comment 1:

It's okay to read stories where the antagonists regret their actions or face consequences for their actions. I love me a good revenge story and a story where the antagonists get their long-awaited comeuppance. But here's the thing: Matthias has not shown ANY FORM OF REGRET AND REMORSE FOR HIS ACTS AND HAS NOT FACED ANY CONSEQUENCES.

Like this dude, THREW Layla's hat (that Bill bought for her) into the lake where she had to get it and almost drown in the process coz the sistah can't swim.

He killed birds KNOWING she would come to bury them to lure her in the forest so he could talk to her instead of approaching her like a normal person.

He swiped her shoes while she was dozing off waiting for Kyle and told Layla that he was going to give them back if she CRIED. On top of belittling her and telling her that her only purpose is to BE NOTHING.

He made her make a bouquet of roses (I think) for him only for him to make her make another bouquet over and over again because they weren't up to his standard (but I personally think this mutha fucka did it to be petty AND be a prick).

And he stepped on her hand (I think) when she was picking up her coins after spending time with Claudine when she was TWELVE YEARS OLD. An EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD at his big grown old age at that time bullying A TWELVE YEAR OLD.

And not ONCE has he shown ANY remorse or guilt nor faced ANY CONSEQUENCES for his actions. As a matter of fact (spoilers), he gets rewarded for all of the heinous things he did to Layla by getting with her in the end.

And that basically makes the argument of "reading and fantasising about toxic relationships where the toxic person feels guilt" pointless.

Comment 2:

Yes romance and dark romance are two different things. Dark romance explores taboo, morally grey, toxic relationships and unequal power dynamics between the characters.

HOWEVER, for it to work as a dark romance, the characters need to be morally grey, have internal conflict with themselves, and some level of character development and character depth.

And our boy Matthias has NONE OF THOSE. He's just an asshole who gets off from making Layla cry and beg. He's not a misunderstood character who's battling with his feelings or whatever. He knows EXACTLY what he's doing, and he does not care.

Plus there's supposed to be ROMANCE in it. It's in the name. Dark. ROMANCE. The key ingredient that's nowhere to be found in Cry or Better Yet Beg.

Common arguments made in both comments:

People hate Matthias because he's not acting like the typical green flag male love interest in "fluffy" romance stories.

Nope. Most people don't hate him for not acting like the green flag love interest. People hate him because he's an asshole and a bully period.

These Stories Exist Because People Enjoy Them/Liking Dark Romance Doesn’t Mean I Want It in Real Life/If You Don’t Like It, Don’t Read It

Yes, there's an audience for dark romance, and people eat it up. Yes, just because you like reading dark romance doesn't automatically mean that you want it in real life. And yes, people shouldn't read dark romance if they don't like it.

But that's not going to make any dark romance stories ESPECIALLY Cry or Better Yet Beg above criticism (VALID criticism at that).

If anything, stories like Cry or Better Yet Beg are an insult to people who have experienced trauma and abuse because the victim ends up falling in love with their abuser and the abuser gets away with it.

Are THESE the type of stories we want to push into the mainstream?

[delavalle]

On that note though do you know who also reminds me of one another?

When I'm going to sign up for lobotomized-by-plot-for-romance-convenience-and-character-building-erasure club 's president position but there's genuine competition

[pruneunfair]

Listing the positive and negative traits of Layla and Claudine to prove a point that neither of them are just their beauty or who they are to Matthias.

Layla Llewellyn

She spent a significant amount of her childhood helping her uncle out around the land, so she'd have skills related to farming.

One of Layla's most famous interests are animals, specifically birds. She appreciates the land around her and the living creatures living in it with her, respecting them enough to give them a proper burial during the hunting season.

She can be prideful and on rare occasion, envious of Claudine's lifestyle. While it is only implied, she may also be deeply ashamed of her social status.

Layla has been described as intelligent for a reason as she is quite studious. She is so dedicated that she dreams of attending college to earn a degree and become a professor during a male dominated time in history.

She can be stubborn, occasionally inconsiderate, and with the tendency to bottle up her pain, it sadly leaves much of her trauma to go unresolved. Layla believes that if she can just keep moving forward to her goals, it doesn't matter how hurt she gets in the process.

She is a kind and gentle teacher to her students, often encouraging them every step of the way as she guides them.

Due to the abandonment issues she developed early in life, Layla can feel that everyone is out to get her even when they aren't. (Not like a lot of the people she is surrounded by really prove that wrong.)

Contrary to popular belief, Layla IS capable of advocating for herself. I know we all love Kyle but she isn't obligated to marry him just because the alternative solution is worse. Layla's broken engagment wasn't just because of Linda Ettman, Layla just didn't love Kyle like that, and when she knew it would never work out, she broke it off.

Layla has been shown to be an artist, sketching out the landscape from the trees.

She's generally a sweet young woman with aspirations, talents, hobbies, and hopes for a successful future in a world that is rigged against her.

Claudine von Brandt

Claudine knows when to put her own wants aside for the future that was selected for her. It is however, a double edged sword, as it shows that Claudine is mature and knows when it's time to roll up her sleeves and get to work but it also means that she's less likely to advocate for a future that doesn't confine her to a political bargaining tool.

With that said, she's not a complete pushover, and she refuses to accept Riette's feelings for her just because he wants her. Claudine knows what she wants and she isn't willing to settle for less.

There is no doubt that she can be a mean girl in a way that is so painfully realistic. She doesn't necessarily hate Layla, but her wealthy upbringing and the lack of correction from the adults in her life allowed Claudine to grow up with the mindset that Layla doesn't have a personality of her own, rather believing that she merely exists solely as her friend.

Claudine is shown to be skilled in a variety of subjects. She's shown to be incredibly artistic with her knack for embroidery, she can play the piano and she can create beautiful bouquets of artificial flowers. We also know that she knew how to play card games, chess and games of dice ever since she was a young girl.

It might not be as deep as Layla's love for nature, but Claudine has been shown to respect the beauty of the Herdhart's green house, implying that she too, has a fondness for the beauty the earth possesses.

Claudine is mean and capable of saying some nasty shit, but she usually shows a lot of restraint in keeping her intrusive thoughts to herself. Unlike a certain someone, Claudine knows she has better things to do than to go out of her way to stalk somebody.

As for the "She cried when Matthias broke off their engagement! 😂😂😂" So what? Would YOU not cry if you were betrayed by your fiancé? Claudine openly crying is a sign that she hasn't completely closed off all of her emotions, it still shows that she's human and humans naturally get upset from time to time. Newsflash: Concealing all of your emotions to look "cool" isn't as badass as it sounds, it's actually worrying as it implies that emotions were something that was taught to be feared and hidden in order to not be a "burden" on others.

She does however, place too much importance on learning from her mother's story to the point where she goes to the other end of the extreme.

She's a flawed woman with ignorant and even downright classist opinions and worldviews, but Claudine isn't one note, even when she "loses" she can still find her strength, pick herself back up, and continue on with her life away from the toxicity of her family and former in-laws.

Now... How about we talk about the traits Matthias displays while we're at it.

A man child who has to surround himself with enablers to protect his sad, pathetic little bubble.

When that bubble is burst by a twelve year old who wasn't afraid of him, he took it so personally as an eighteen year old that he went out of his way to kill birds so he could make said twelve year old cry over and over.

For a duke, he spends more time than he should bullying a girl who did nothing to him for fun. Doesn't he have an actual job to do?

His only "personality trait" that is remotely positive at all is his face card, thats really sad.

All of his hobbies involve killing/disabling other creatures who can't fight back.

Because he wasn't used to being told "no" in his life, he proceeded to sexually abuse and corner that same girl into a hostage relationship to vent out his frustrations of not getting everything he wants just because he asked.

His backstory is so pathetic that it makes Navier look like she lived Rashta's life in comparison.

He wanted to kill his own god damn son because he was jealous that Layla loved her child more than him.

He only threatened to abdicate as duke to marry Layla because he didn't have any competition, if he had a little brother then I'm sure he wouldn't have put his title on the line.

The only people who actually like him all have to larp as Layla fans because they themselves know how embarrassing it is to openly defend this man baby.

Matthias is nothing more than a hungry parasite coated in a pretty artstyle that forces his hosts to be dependent on his existence while he sucks the joy and personality out of everyone he comes across. He is by all definitions, a waste of screentime that could have gone to a story equally as beautiful as Vanji's art.

So let me ask you guys this, why hate on these two stunning women when we can should hating on this parasite who's sole purpose was to rob us of anything meaningful?

Anyways, Laydine is the best pairing in COBYB and no one can convince me otherwise.

[shooting-star-musings]

"This isekai maid is forming a union was made with contempt for the otome isekai genre and is a just a moral pick-me story!"

*looks inside manwha*

(spoilers for webtoon undercut, read at your own discretion.)

> Likeable yet morally complex POC female lead name Bridgette (Black/African American). Shows how her past lives as a maid affects her relationships with others. It shows how compassionate she is to her peer while also showing how it negatively affects her understanding of the world around her, and her own identity. Her past lives are not carelessly brushed off or ignored, they are established and have genuine impact on the world despite many of them having bad endings.

Piper's daughter still mourns her to the point off cutting off her son for favoring the nobles that killed her mother, Clara's niece uses her name after accepting her identity, and Nasir drowns in guilt for killing his best friend after being manipulated and writes a book detailing his story. Bridgette has lived, she has made a impact on these people's lives, and she has affected so many others.

While we are here, even the isekai-ed protagonist's lives (both past and present) are developed as well. Their actions have purpose and meaning. Their actions may not always be good, but their actions have consequences for everyone around them and influence society as a whole. How that society feeds into their biases while also drains them of their modern knowledge for their own benefit. Some escape, while others do not.

> Author cited what manwha they were critiquing and shows how badly these tropes could affect society as a whole if left unchallenged by the people. Proudly challenges the very tropes these people complain about, all, the, damn, time in online forums (slavery, grooming from both male and female perpetrators, lack of respect for service workers/maids, shitty male leads getting away scott free while female villains are discarded and left to suffer).

> Author answers gives in-dept and insightful answers to questions about her comic on Tumblr. Gives reasoning as of why they written the story this way and does attempt to incorporate their answers into the story proper.

Author, who has experienced in the food industry, decided to create a protagonist who decided to stand up against a system that seeks to not only destroy her, but her family and friends (both isekai-ed and otherwise).

Author who made a world that is filled with political intrigue, and a horrific system that not only exploits the isekai-ed people's modern knowledge, but the people they are meant to rule over. the Royals, the Mages, and the Knights are all fully complicit in this scheme and it's interesting to see how the commoners/people are slowly waking up to this situation.

> LEGIT 👏👏QUEER 👏👏 REPRESENTATION👏👏. No ""heacannons"" or ""speculation"". It even covers how Otome Isekai tend to remove gay representation in order make the FL feel super special (the whole, "omg I isekaied into a BL Novel?!?!?" stuff).

Since the story is heavy on identity, sexuality play a huge role in how some characters interact with people (Lord Demeter/Agatha)

> GENUINELY INTERESTING VILLAINS???? HELLO??? Lord Demeter, Phoebe are like really fascinating to me overall. They represent how meta information can negativity warp people's perception of human connection as a whole (which seems to be a large theme in the overall work). How Demeter literally uSES TOXIC MALE LEAD STRATS TO TRY AND WORM HIS WAY INTO ANNETTE'S HEART (failing miserably thank god)???? How Phoebe literally sees no one other than herself as "real"??? How she only saw her eldest son as real before he was ripped away from her???? How her own trans daughter (Tree) uses her literal ex-maid's name as her middle name???? Im not even covering the other antagonists!! they are all so fascinating I need to examine them under a microscope!!!

Also vague confirmation that the world is legit sentient??? that is picks who gets yeeted into the world???? That there are many ways to get thrown into novel fantasy land and Bridgette is a literal glitch in the system??? Like??? I love it???

> GENUINE GIRL FRIENDSHIPS. Author doesn't paint Annette (the OGFL of Momentary Duchess) as some villain, instead expands her story and how this world warps her perception of people around her. How she wishes to make amends with Marina after slapping her. How she wishes to do right by her future children by not repeating her mistake of being with Lord Demeter (ML of the same story).

Bridgette loves her family and friends so dearly. She strong yet kind, she is everything I love in a protagonist. She kind, but takes no shit from people who harm the people she cares about. She thinks about how her position of power might hurt Shellie, and avoids a forming a romantic relationship to avoid abuse of power. She tries to stop "evil" maids from following her (Zoe, Moon, ect) footsteps.

She forms connections with the staff in the Anders estate and it helps in her main goal in "forming a union". You can't do that alone, you can't """girlboss""" your way into making one alone. Bridgette and her friends make connections and grow/change as a result. They are human in a way that makes me want to root for them. Yes girls, make your union and beat the shit out of Lord Demeter please.

> There are flaws, there is no doubt about it. No story is without them. However, for me, I think I can ignore those flaws if I get such an amazing and wonderful story such as this. I have never interacted with the author, however just looking at how they treat their audience I can tell they care about this story, they care about this genre.

If people just stopped straw manning this damn webcomic, perhaps we could get some actual discussion about the characters and the story as a whole. Maybe they would see that the story wishes to have a genuine conversation about how writing tropes can negatively affect people's perception of people while also talking about how these stories can also bring people together. OI manwha may be fast food but it's fast food we can bond over and complain about together.

> Author who spent 5+ years to make this story. Perhaps it's not a love letter to the genre that people want. It's not filled with sparkles and fancy ballgowns. It's filled with the unfairness, the truth of how one would be treated if someone was living in a Otome Isekai world.

Despite this, despite all of it's supposed flaws; It's filled with love. It written by someone who critically looks at medium and says "this could be better" and made a story to do it.

"This Isekai Maid Is Forming A Union!" is a charming letter filled with passion and justice for the people who suffered and wish to see legitimate change in the world. That I can respect.

header art by Frostlight Comics from "This Isekai Maid Is Forming A Union!" (Promo Episode - How Jerky Isekai Protagonist's Led Bridgette to Unionize!)

[pruneunfair]

My obligatory opinion on the newest popular female lead in the manhwa scene

Okay, I know I haven't had the most positive opinions on The Forgotten Field, but I don't necessarily hate Talia as a character. I don't like the majority of her fanbase, and I find her to be awful as a person but those were very likely the intended feelings I was supposed to have because she's supposed to your traditional over the top "seductress" villainess, and instead of those negative traits being painted as a misunderstanding or a consequence-free memory after a regression, they are taken up several notches to the extremes.

Talia isn't just a heartbroken hopeless romantic, she's obsessive of Varkas to the point where she could almost be classified as a yandere, she isn't just envious of Ayla's popularity, she attempts to assassinate her multiple times, thus giving her half sister no reason to care when Talia suffers, she isn't just an older sister to Arthos, she takes out her unresolved trauma on him just as Gareth took out his trauma onto her.

Talia is enjoyable to me when there isn't someone yelling in my ear that she's just a misunderstood little baby girl who just needs tender love and care, her allure is that she is a horrible person, she has a childhood that explains why she's a horrible person, but it shouldn't exonerate her of all wrongdoing as an adult. For Christ's sake, she raped her husband, the excuse that she wasn't treated fairly as a kid can only go so far, and before anyone tries to tell me that Varkas eventually said yes, wearing someone down because they initially said no to sex until they eventually give up is NOT consensual! Manipulating and guilt tripping someone into sleeping with you is NOT consensual!

"But he was scared he would hurt her, that's the only reason he said-" A no is a no, it doesn't matter why he said no, that should have been the end of it.

Talia is supposed to be a horrible person, if you really were a fan of her writing, you wouldn't be trying to rationalize literal sexual assault. You want a problematic character? Then let her be problematic.

[anitalover]

[pruneunfair]

You ever wonder what Laylas life was like with Matthias when they got older?

I always imagined that Layla, after essentially being mind broken by Matthias, resided to marrying him considering both the fact that he made it clear he wasn't going to leave her alone and in dire circumstances where Layla pretty much had no where left to go, she figured being a Duchess was the only option left.

I always thought of Layla to be more jaded in her middle age, her and Matthias's story is inspired to make multiple "romantic" novels and they are viewed as an ideal couple by the public, Laylas story is effectively erased by history as Matthias is the one telling it.

I can only imagine what she would think if the son she had started to do the same thing to another girl, after all he was raised to believe his mom and dad's relationship was always ideal, his mom always loved his dad in the end, that he was the only one who knew best for her.