we support endogenic systems and willogenic systems here. and all kinds of systems and plurals and multiples.
we also are pro polyminds and alterhuman and otherkin and all that too.
we do NOT support ableism, which includes people who believe in "narc abuse", who say slurs (especially the R slur), and who use disabled traits as negative traits (like having delusions). there's more to ableism but im not listing every way you can be ableist here just google search if you're confused
also don't support transphobia or misgendering people. yes, even if they're bad people. yes, even if they did it first. also don't support terms like "theyfab" or "transtrender" or other transmed talking points. idc how shitty a person is, capitalizing the misgendered pronoun just makes you look like an entitled asshole.
edited to add we don't support people who call others lolcows, who harass and abuse/bully people just for some "funny reactions". using that word means you likely know it has origins in 4chan and kiwifarms spaces, which reeks of ableism, queerphobia, fatphobia, and probably 20 other bigotry-labels. i don't care how funny you find someone, let's be kinder and less like 4channers.
also no fatphobia. fatphobia is real and if you're gonna judge people for their body weight (or their body in general) you should. fuck off.
remember to drink water, eat some food (any food is good food except food that's gone bad, and food that makes you feel yucky or are otherwise allergic to), maybe go outside if you can or just step away from the internet/tumblr to take breaks on the regular, do hobbies you have, talk to loved ones, and generally self care. if you need to, take a shower or at least do a wipe-down, brush your teeth, all that.
also if you're anti endo know that i will disagree with you but you are free to interact. but i will block if you're being a shithead on my account.
also part 2 im not solely any specific -genic label. assume whatever you want, you're probably at least partially wrong. im a plural multiple system guygirlperson.
when im actively struggling with harmful compulsions and impulsive decisions and getting myself into situations that are harmful to my mental health and people find it "funny"?
have you ever heard of an addiction? i have one. to syscourse. it's a very harmful habit, to check ableists blogs like yours.
sorry i can't stop my compulsions and i struggle with several mental disorders that cause me to be more impulsive and lead me to enjoy debating people online. but going "no one's holding you at gunpoint!" is. odd. and i feel like it's ableist.
damn how dare someone struggle with mental illness online. how dare someone compulsively check discourse that relates to them. they should simply Log Off! this is an Easy Decision and would never bring paranoia and an overwhelming urge to still go back and check on what people are saying.
i think claiming that endogenic plurality and traumagenic plurality are separate mechanisms is kinda a silly thing to claim without evidence.
i think they're the same mechanism used in different ways (like how people can hallucinate from medications and mental illness but also induce them through choice and willpower, it's part of how tulpamancy works), unless you have proof that they're actually two separate phenomena in the brain, in which case: PLEASE for the love of GOD show any proof we're lacking in that research department comparing the experiences and if you have some i'd love to read it
I think it's the same general sort of phenomenon, but with different mechanisms creating the phenomenon. In traumagenic systems, you tend to have trauma creating dissociative barriers between sysmates, separating parts in order to protect individual selves. In endogenics, you tend to have a variety of different methods that more or less rely on the mirror neuron network to create new selves. That's VASTLY oversimplifying it, but that's what we see it usually being for each. Of course there's loads of exceptions, like we Willows are protogenic and there was no mirror neuron network for us. And there's traumagenics with willomates created or developed with the mirror neuron network.
So it's definitely not cut and dry, but there's tendencies that are worth discussing, imho.
my point is that i disagree but unless you have evidence like brain scans arguing whether or not they're entirely separate mechanisms or not is pointless. also what about those who are mixed origins? do they have two separate systems? one that's in one mechanism and another in another?
and mirror neurons is like. part of personality and social stuff in general isn't it? it's like. all of your headmates would eat and breathe and drink and such. similarly they will see other people and mirror others? although i have NO idea what that means in the way you're using it and the only time ive heard about it was about how people mirror each other. like if i talk to someone a lot i'll copy them. that happens in singlets and systems because thats a human thing. so if im wrong, explain what that means.
Chat, is this "profit" to *checks notes* take normal commissions from people you don't like without scamming or payment mistakes? Or is there some context we're missing
okay i really should not be on syscourse i'll log off but this is. wild.
i hope they find out that you're anti endo and either don't buy commissions from you, or commission you to draw something so pro endo that you'll implode.
also as an artist if i was anti endo i would NOT want to give (whom i perceive to be) ableists my art? that would feel gross.
that's like trying to "make money" off of transphobes by... drawing art for them? like aint no way i ever wanna draw for a transphobe! why would i want a transphobes money so they can get my art? something that i spent years crafting? so they can potentially use it in their transphobic spaces?
similarly, if a pro endo commissions you to draw, say, their headmate Daniel, and then you draw that headmate, bam, they're using YOUR ART as THEIR PROFILE PICTURE because you GAVE THEM THAT ART to USE as their PROFILE PICTURE for their headmate Daniel, whom you don't think exists.
do you want that? do you want to have your art associated with what you consider to be ableist roleplaying????
like make your money idc and if you don't mind the above then sure man get that bank off of your art. but why not ask other "real systems" to commission you art? draw your friend's alter Piper's profile picture instead. or something. i don't know.
i also think that if you see art as a way to scam people you're misunderstanding art. if someone pays for your work they value it a lot. and i'd rather be valued by people i see as morally good and not ableist than have people support me who are ableist and i see as morally wrong for that. i don't want to draw art for transphobes but i would happily accept a commission from a trans person or someone who's an ally / pro trans.
my post was about people going "systems function entirely different from plurality" and especially those who call plurality "a framework to understand yourself" or whatever. i don't think that's how that works and unless you have proof stop claiming that they're two distinctly separate experiences. i was talking about the erasure of mixed origin systems and experiences if systems who don't have fully traumagenic or fully non-traumagenic headmates/alters/parts/members/etc.
i think that finding out how systems function in the brain is important, finding out why endogenic systems exist and how they function and if they function similarly to traumagenic systems and how closely mixed origin systems lie on that scale (if there is one and there isn't just "system" and "system but CPTSD" like im guessing), that's very important to understanding ourselves, but right now, we have two groups not collaborating to figure out those answers yet.
i think claiming that endogenic plurality and traumagenic plurality are separate mechanisms is kinda a silly thing to claim without evidence.
i think they're the same mechanism used in different ways (like how people can hallucinate from medications and mental illness but also induce them through choice and willpower, it's part of how tulpamancy works), unless you have proof that they're actually two separate phenomena in the brain, in which case: PLEASE for the love of GOD show any proof we're lacking in that research department comparing the experiences and if you have some i'd love to read it
we're also technically mixed origins with a few different -genic labels and so it's annoying to see people claim "traumagenic multiplicity is COMPLETELY separate from endogenic plurality they function ENTIRELY DIFFERENTLY they are NOT the same"
then how do mixed origin systems exist? especially when different alters/parts/headmates/system members can have different origins but function basically the same? with no distinction? are you gonna claim that we can't exist? because you decided to draw a line in the sand that doesn't actually distinguish anything?
again, if you have proof besides "the TOSD* doesn't fit for endogenic systems" do show, but it's just claims made by people who don't know how the brain works. i won't say that i'm perfectly correct either, i could be entirely wrong! but that's why i'm asking for evidence to the contrary.
(*i have issues with the TOSD and its assumptions so thats like quoting the bible to disprove atheism imo i dont care what the bible says and i don't see the TOSD as the end-all-be-all of what could cause traumagenic plurality and DID/OSDD)
i think claiming that endogenic plurality and traumagenic plurality are separate mechanisms is kinda a silly thing to claim without evidence.
i think they're the same mechanism used in different ways (like how people can hallucinate from medications and mental illness but also induce them through choice and willpower, it's part of how tulpamancy works), unless you have proof that they're actually two separate phenomena in the brain, in which case: PLEASE for the love of GOD show any proof we're lacking in that research department comparing the experiences and if you have some i'd love to read it
I forgot how much some of y'fall anti endos sound like anti otherkin
if you participate in pro/anti-endo/will-character blog creation and I smell a whiff of AI art on your blog I'm going to explode you with my lazer eyes. yall better credit the artists you use and support real artists.
Okay, so, I see endos all the time defending their systems by saying it's "beneficial" or "good for them", and I think... How? How is it good for you? Cause it's a trauma disorder. You saying your "non-disordered system" is good for you is like saying your "non-trauma based stress disorder" is good for you. And what good is stress? Like, what's next? You guys sound EXACTLY like the people who are like "vaccines cause autism!!!" with all those fuckass system origins too. What the fuck do you mean your system was caused by William Afton? He's not even real. Did you play FNaF at five and get jumpscared into a coma? Like, christ. You people scare me. Anyways, aside from that, I just don't understand endos. DID has been, and will always be, a trauma based disorder. You're not gonna change that by pretending you're a system. Also, if you come into my blog being a little bitch, I WILL find out information about you and tell one of the adults in your life. Don't even play with me.
Also, dissociation is a trauma response in itself. Even not having a CDD, dissociation is a trauma response. You can't dissociate without being in extreme pain, under extreme stress, or a traumatic situation. Yeah, lots of people have different emotional tolerance, so some people dissociate from smaller things. Still, dissociation is an exact response to TRAUMA AND STRESS.
To be a system is to dissociate, and you literally can't dissociate without trauma. So, endos are not valid. And I swear to GOD, if anyone is in my comments going "well, I am under extreme stress/in extreme pain all the time and I'm an endogenic system!!!" I'm going to crash out because for the LOVE OF GOD, you are traumagenic if you ACTUALLY DISSOCIATE. Dissociation is a TRAUMA RESPONSE. You are most likely TRAUMAGENIC AND UNABLE TO REMEMBER THE TRAUMA. Because that's LITERALLY THE POINT OF DID. TO NOT REMEMBER THE TRAUMA.
Anyways. Sorry. Needed to talk about this. Syscourse in the comments is okay, just be respectful please.
"erm how is it beneficial to you" the point of a system even in an anti Endo mindset is to protect and keep the body safe, I think that's a good benefit. like.
Am I the only one who's getting pissed at all the systems who are attacking folk- primarily Fictionkin- for using terms? And adding onto that, that are just complete dicks to Fictionkin folk? (This is pretty much a rant ,, also probably gonna be made into a video by me, so yk stay tuned)
. . . "Section one: Terms" ! !
Like "source." Because buddy im not going to hold your hand when I tell you this but, 'source' isnt a system exclusive fucking term. Source means from which something comes from, please learn basic English. Source can be used for fucking anything, by anyone, for any reason, as long as 'from which is comes from' is how theyre using it.
And dont get me started on "past memories" because oh my good fucking gods, YOU DO NOT OWN PAST MEMORIES. Past memories means past fucking memories ,, memories that someone has from the past, shocker.
"Doubles" buddy. Buddy. Buddy. Buddy shut up. Doubles mean 2 of the same thing, which yet again isn't system exclusive.
"Source mates" FOR FUCKS SAKE. We already went over source so ill explain mates; mates meaning 'close with one another.' ,, just because you slapped 2 words together- both of which you dont own- doesn't mean that you own the god damn term.
. . . "Section two: Being Rude to Folk " ! !
"Can I use we/us pronouns?" "Why would you need to?" Oh buddy. Where to start with this... YOU DONT AND CANT OWN PRONOUNS. Like ehhh??? Anyone can use we/us if they want to, system or not ,, you cant own things like fuckin pronouns. "But theyre not plural so why would they need to use them!" Oh my good gods, because they can?? Maybe they feel more comfortable that way, maybe they feel less alone when they say it, maybe BECAUSE ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS?
"I never understand why Fictionkin need to track "shifts" Not shifts in quotation marks ,, Im gonna guess thats because they think shifts are just a knockoff for fronting, but im gonna hold you hand and say ... Its not. And they wanna track shifts because they can?? Is it harming you? Is it hurting anyone? Is it taking away precious resources? No? Then shut up.
"But Fictionkin is just fictives." No?? The clear difference being Fictionkin dont have multiple personalities, but identify as something. If you can see the clear difference in that then its your own fault.
(Im not typing all that out) Oh so we're invaliding folk now? That great. No, not all Fictionkin are systems who are mislabeled, and you saying that is extremely invaliding but also just fucking rude. Theres a very clear difference between Fictionkin and systems, but people never care to learn the difference. The difference being: Fictionkin identify as a fictional character or species. Systems being folk who have experienced trauma at a young age to where they didn't form one sense of self/personality, so now have 2 or more identities.
(Also not typing all that out) Buddy, so many people believe in past lives and reincarnation, just because someone past life is fictional that doesn't mean you get the right to invalidate in and say it isn't real? This is literally just a Dick move. "But its fictional!" WHO CARES. 60-90% of Fictionkin who believe in past lives believe their identity because of the multiverse ,, amd I swear to gods if Yall start to try and hate on people who believe in the multiverse oh my gods.
(Not typing it out .. These are long ok) Ableism I see, ok. Oh no, im not going to gloss over how this is completely ableist, no. Calling people delusional is ableist. It harms folk who do have delusions and demonizes them for having said delusions. But let me also say you cant diagnose folk through the internet just by one thing, thats not how it works. As someone who activity has delusional theres more to it then just one thing ,, but just identifying as a character isn't even a delusion.
"Fictionkin shouldn't/cant use simply plural." Ignoring that simply plural is shutting down ,, yes? They can?? Simply literally has an opinion to say youre no a system. "But its a system space" its a logging app. 'System' apps are usually the only apps that have what Fictionkin (and otherkin folk) need to keep track of their kins ,, as far as im aware theres no apps made specifically for Fictionkin, and even if there was i can practically guarantee that systems would take it over and use it as their own, because it would work pretty- if not identical- to system apps. "Just use google docs or something" you are literally spitting anti system phrases. Same reason why systems use simply plural instead of google docs; too many, too much. So get over it.
"Fictionkin are invading system discord servers" this point does have some marite behind it, but its not sound. Many Fictionkin join system servers because get this ... Many system servers are advertised as Fictionkin welcoming/safe ,, theyre Fictionkin servers too.
And lastly for this point: very few Fictionkin are actually joining system spaces ,, and even the few that are that doesn't mean the majority are. All you do when you say Fictionkin are invading system spaces is demonizes Fictionkin and hurt the folk who havent done anything.
If youre a system (or just someone) who genuinely thinks like this please please please for the love of gods tell me why, because I can not wrap my head around this.
Extra screen shots of things I didnt care to respond directly to/already basically covered under cut
people will argue till the cows come home about 'kin using PK and SP and it won't change the fact that the devs of both of those said anyone can use them. hell, I would love more roleplayers and fictionkin and other people using these types of apps while financially supporting the creators so we all can continue to benefit
