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English version of my Jennifer Herrema / Black Bananas cover story interview (New Noise)

Thought I’d post the English version of the cover story I did on the superb Black Bananas for the godly French glossy New Noise recently. Enjoy!

Black Bananas

By Morgan Y. Evans

Whether it’s Bob Dylan’s “Maggie’s Farm” severing ties with protest folk to chart a new path for electric blues rock or, much more recently, Darkthrone’s CIRCLE THE WAGONS making black metal purists whine, there will always be pioneering artists who refuse to listen when the public wants them to stay inside a box. Since her days as half of the brains behind notorious indie-rock legends Royal Trux, Jennifer Herrema has been able to slip in and out of persona with a “make it look easy” breezy cool that has earned her iconic status in rock n’ roll and fashion circles. From the ground breaking TWIN INFINITIVES days of using sound like a William S. Burrough’s cut-up to channeling Classic Rock for the “alternative” world long before it was hip or interviewing Keith Richards on the STEEL WHEELS tour, this girl has done it all.

Jennifer Herrema has constantly planted little seeds (‘Roswell Seeds And Stems’?) in the underground consciousness, sonic diamonds in the rough that have flowered into rewarding listening experiences to return to again and again. Trux albums like the 80’s worship via lo-fi gear classic ACCELERATOR and the sprawling major label gutter blues prog of THANK YOU gain new fans on a regular basis as the internet helps people rediscover one of the most important fringe acts of the 90’s. The fearless Royal Trux back catalogue on Drag City Records has helped her keep reaching new audiences with a more modern, discerning ear while Herrema herself has continued moving forward and making relevant, self-aware and fantastic music that eschews genre.

Anyone who misdiagnosed Herrema’s post Royal Trux band RTX as just a grab at a trendier indie-rock version of grimy, glam metal completely missed the point (and is an idiot, because the three RTX records completely slay). RTX was a bit more linear than most Royal Trux, but what isn’t? The tunes were still full of twists, turn ons and kiss offs set to a blend of infectious post-hard rock. Now with RAD TIMES XPRESS IV, Herrema has changed the RTX band name to Black Bananas (which was the name of an RTX song on their album WESTERN XTERMINATOR!) and moved the sound into much funkier territory.

Imagine ZZ Top meets slinky, sexed up trance rock, heavy on electro boogie, glam-sleaze attitude and 70’s exploitation soundtracks. Get your groove and headbang on, all while setting a stoned course into the unknown! RAD TIMES XPRESS IV is by far one of the most rewarding records in recent memory. It’s informed, fun and feral. Live the band has even started playing as a three-piece with just a towering, assured Herrema, Kurt Midness (Keys) and Brian McKinley (Guitar) running a whole stage with riffs and bleeps.

I talked to Herrema backstage before her sold out show with Sleigh Bells at Terminal Five on Manhattan’s West Side. “Dreamweaver” was playing on her laptop and I had to pinch myself to believe this was real. Could I really be casually chatting up my favorite indie rock heroine of all time? We talked about Jennifer’s past and how it has led her to keep reinventing, how it felt to be on tour with Sleigh Bells and just what makes life so Rad.

After the interview, the band took the Terminal Five stage, making many hipster booties in gold lame American Apparel leggings shake (the slinky “Acid Song” was the set highlight and hypnotized the crowd).

Black Bananas were confident to the point of nonchalance, far less extroverted than the much hyped (yet fantastic) Sleigh Bells. Herrema forced the audience to take her band on their own self-absorbed trippy terms with an attitude of “We don’t give a fuck” that was very refreshing. Instead of cliché, “Are you guys ready to rock?” histrionics, Herrema’s reverb drenched stray cat drawl whispered jokes and sharp comments between red-hot RAD TIMES party beats. Despite a few technical problems and false starts that added to the charm rather than detracting, the band didn’t break stride. Herrema sauntered in orbit near the statuesque and constantly riffing McKinley, sipping casually on a beer while teasing the crowd during a break between songs that she should have,” Ridden out on a motorcycle”.

Rest assured, Black Bananas are not here to pander to you but are certainly out to have a rad time.

How’s it feel to be in New York and doing this gig with the awesome band Sleigh Bells? Rest in piece Gary Carter.

Jennifer Herrema: Yeah, well…wait. Gary Carter? He died?! We were looking right before we got on the airplane and it was like, “Dwight Gooden LIVE.” We wondered if he had a new TV show and they were scrolling all these facts on the plane but we didn’t see it. Oh, man. That’s a shame. What happened?

I think it was a brain tumor. Some kind of major drag.

JH: Yeah, yeah.

I saw you play New York at The Mercury Lounge when TRANSMANIACON came out. From the get-go with RTX your material with these guys has been confident. Now as time has passed and the band name has also changed, how does it feel to have evolved with these guys as players?

JH: Well, now we can do whatever we want. At first, well…it’s been years now and we are acclimated to each other but in the start we set up parameters. Cast traditional roles while we taught each other about ourselves. Tonight is only the second time just the three of us have played like this (with just keys, electronics and guitar/no live drums). We’ve been doing these art shows with some of our friends. We did this Moca event (Shadow Pool-  A Natural History of The San San International) at the Hollywood Forever Masonic Lodge in L.A. and that was just two of us. It’s just a lot more in synch.

As an artist you’ve managed to create in cutting edge ways consistently, not to sound dorky.

JH: No, no. Thanks for noticing. It’s weird because people take things at such face value. There’s a lot underlying. I appreciate you recognizing.

People concentrate on band identities and limitations. You’ve, I don’t want to say “refined” what you do. You’ve been yourself as an artist and yet also are still experimenting, having fun at the same time.

JH: Yeah. That’s exactly it. Going back as far as a teenager there was always some seed that provided the impetus to start saying, “Oh, what I am doing is for the record.” The last RTX record JJ GOT LIVE RATX was very structured. We flew the drummer out from New York. He stayed at our house. We wrote, recorded and mixed all at our house in three weeks. After having done that we wanted to do the anti-thesis which was work just within ourselves. We’d brought in an outsider just to have that experience but this time it seemed right just to have no parameters. Black Bananas created itself, actually. We were always recording. We have so much stuff that is not even on the record. We’re constantly looking at it and taking the cream. Looking at it and saying, “This is who we have become over this course of time.” It defined itself. The name change…it seemed like it needed delineation. The last RTX record people thought was a live record and I thought it was very misunderstood. People took it at face value. They were almost offended at the simplicity of it. It was a great record but at the same time now I didn’t want baggage to be reflected on something that is fresh. It’s all connected, at the same time. Taking the name Black Bananas from RTX song and the philosophy in that song. I dunno.

Your records have always had different layers and depth to them.

JH: They should always be able to be heard at face value 100% but there it’s always a multi-dimensional affair. People like to be guided. It’s not about being just ironic.

One thing I admire about you as an artist…how do I articulate this? Being a performer myself over the years writing songs I want to have fun or want some songs to say something meaningful and others to really just convey a vibe and aesthetic. Which do you pick? It isn’t easy to do all of those things but a lot of your songs do. Obviously there are sillier ones like “TV Trouble”, but you write many songs that tell good stories or feel like slices of real life… and you have a blast at the same time! How do you combine those worlds?

JH: Yeah, yeah, yeah…well, I also think that some of the sounds to are triggers for people. Emotional triggers, like when you hear something you might have heard before but in another context. You associate that sound with other things, so it doesn’t get to be taken in a new context…unless you give it time.

People have such short attention spans these days with technology and so many options but they still cling to old things they identified themselves by, even as mass culture is more like an ever-changing mash-up all the time.

JH: Yeah, man. I’ve never seen Sleigh Bells or Wet Witch live. I just like the idea. They said they were big Royal Trux fans. One time, Neil (Hagerty) and I, like…we played a tour one time at time when a lot of A&R people were trying to come around and stuff. It was just me and him and a drum machine and playing parts of the record out of the P.A. in the background and me singing.

Around the time of CATS AND DOGS?

JH: Yeah. It was after CATS AND DOGS, but it wasn’t with the full band. We did “Cats And Dogs” shows with the full band. This was after it had been out for awhile and maybe we were gonna start writing. But there were major labels and stuff so we wanted to present to them who we really were, so (laughing) THAT was the tour we did. It was totally unaccepted to do that! It is totally accepted and HUGE now.

A LOT of the things Royal Trux did! The crazy cool blues and psychedelic aspects. “Golden Rules” on SWEET SIXTEEN, I think if that song came out now people would be drooling over it but at the time it was a bit misunderstood.

JH: Oh yeah. See, that’s the thing. Certain songs, man…Y’know…that’s why fuckin’ on TRANSMANIACON I wanted to do “Shockwave Rider” and rename it “Joint Chief”. I wrote that song and I wanted to do it a different way and I didn’t care, y’know? People introduce other people to things. That’s still how, as a society, we figure out if we are wasting our time on people or not. If somebody doesn’t get it I don’t dislike them but I don’t think I would be ever to really be in synch with that person. Nine years ago some people got it but for us it wasn’t just this “important thing you’re supposed to get” but a way of working and a way of being. It’s natural. Not caring if, like, people understood it. Now it’s all understood.

I was reading a Johnny Rotten quote about X-Ray Specs recently where he said that Poly Styrene and her band were not really related to anything around them. In your own music…your work, it isn’t like you are your own island unto itself. I mean, you can tell some of your influences, but you have the independence where you are making an individual musical statement that people can grasp or not.

JH: I think that’s important and it is a conscientious effort. Being in a band is very social. It’s not like being a painter. I still live in real time.

You need a lighter?

JH: Yeah. I don’t know if can smoke in here. Well, I have electric ones. I’ll have an electric one for a minute.

Those are funky, right? You can put weed extract in them and smoke it on airplanes and it just smells like cooking oil (laughing). None the wiser.

JH: Oh yeah! This is a disposable one but I have ones with the cartridges.

Tracking RAD TIMES EXPRESS IV sounds so elaborate, all the styles on it. Did you sit back at any point and think, “Holy shit, this is so fuckin’ cool?” and also what were the biggest challenges of incorporating so many styles, such as the dancy side of things?

JH: That’s the thing, it wasn’t trying to shove all those things onto particular songs. There were no songs. We were just playing. One night Brian would be recording something or dadada or another time we’d be doing something else. We had a ton of stuff and didn’t have to go back and force it. It already had those sounds.

So you paired the ones you liked the best together?

JH: Yeah. These are the strengths over this period of time. Bringing in different instruments. Not playing with Jaimo (Welch) all the time. Just doing different things expanded the landscape.

A lot of awesome synthesizer!

JH: Yeaaahhh! We bought a lot of stuff, of course. Tabla. A bunch of little things. Kurt bought a lot of shit. Sometimes I’ll walk over to his set-up and start messing with shit. I’ll have a verse I wanted to show him Sometimes we’ll be playing and playing and suddenly I’m forgetting to sing and playing instead.

That’s funny. I wanted to ask if it is hard with such trippy, absorbing music to stay on top of it as a performer and not get sucked inside the intense sound?

JH: It’s all over the map. We’ve only played this stuff live once so far! I need to be able to look at them. I don’t wander around on stage. It sounds bigger but it is more of an intimate dynamic, maybe. We’ve only done one show so far as Black Bananas though, but…that is how it felt.

Would you still play RTX songs live or do you prefer to move forward?

JH: We can play all those songs with this configuration but we have to reinterpret them. Some of them lend themselves to the new set-up. We aren’t playing them now though ‘cuz we have all the new songs.

The album name RAD TIMES XPRESS IV still references RTX.

JH: Yeah, and “Black Bananas.”

This is cool, though because it is lame how most bands will put out a new record and just play a few songs live from it on tour and lean on their whole back catalogue of “hits” for the average fans. I am excited to see a whole show of your newest songs!

JH: I don’t see a lot of live shows lately, so that’s interesting to know. Well, some bands maybe it’s (smirking)…better if they do that. We went to see Judas Priest and I was like, “Dude. Stop playing new songs.”

Mmmm…(Singing) “I Am Nostradamus”!

(At this point in walked Derek Miller from Sleigh Bells/Ex-Poison The Well!)

Derek to JJ: I just wanted to say Hi real quick!

JJ: It’s so nice to meet you.

Derek: Thanks so much for playing tonight. It’s gonna be great.

JJ: Thanks for having us.

(After a bit of talk we resume the interview and Derek goes off to sound check. Sleigh Bells beats are booming through the venue sound system).

He was excited!

JH: That was cool. You know him?

Nah, but he was excited. Anyhow…there’s a lot of hipster bands with hard rock and seventies leanings or avant garde or dance/electro elements, but anything you incorporate seems genuine. Too many new bands have cheesy irony.

JH: Cheesy irony or it’s not contextualized with anything rooted to the past. It all sounds like random Google information. It’s really weird. Information in a vacuum. That’s really going on a lot.

I saw online a duet you did of “Sway” by The Rolling Stones with Scott “Wino” Weinrich recently and you also did “Before They Make Me Run” as Black Bananas with Kurt Vile.

JH: There’s a 7” coming out. Me and Kurt Vile on one side. Me and Wino on the other side. I think that comes out in April.

Did you meet Wino through working with Volcom or did you know him from your D.C. days?

JH: I knew his music from D.C. days. I saw him play a million times at all ages shows and shit, but…I knew a lot of people who knew him. I knew Darryl Jenifer and Earl Hudson from the Bad Brains.

Oh, cool. Doc from the Brains produced my old band. I was just talking to Darryl.

JH: Awesome. What’s your old band?

It was called Divest.

JH: Cool. My friend Grant looks after HR and shit. I introduced Kurt to Grant. I think Black Bananas Kurt kind of…I can’t remember how it all clicked. He does the Volcom 7” stuff. But it all organically fell into place with Wino once we met up. He knew of me and knew my music. He was really stoked. His new record, the Premonition 13 record was done at our studio. It’s like our jam space. That’s where we record all the RTX/Black Bananas stuff and let others record there. Earthless. Kurt Vile. Premonition 13 did their whole record there and Brian from Black Bananas recorded the whole thing. We hung out with them for awhile. Then a couple months ago he came in and we hung out and did the Stones cover.

Wildildlife is a cool group. How was it producing that band?

JH: When TRANSMANIACON came out we were playing in San Francisco and the bass player and the drummer came to the show and introduced themselves. They were psyched. Then WESTERN XTERMINATOR came out and they bought it and wrote us. They were at SXSW. Crucial Blast had put out one of their records. Kurt got it and was into it and wanted to do a 7” with them and then Volcom wanted me to produce it and put it out. Those guys are great, awesome dudes. They’re all kinda different.

Are you nostalgic of the era where major labels were scooping up “indie” bands like Royal Trux or do you prefer the lack of limits in terms of the freedom the internet allows bands to chart their own course marketing themselves these days? Not that you ever had a problem making the art you wanted to make anyway!

JH: I’m not nostalgic. It was cool, like, getting all that money from the major label (laughing). I don’t know…I like being able to do whatever I want whenever I want and that’s…why I wrote a song about it. (laughing)

That’s a good thing!

JH: I mean, honestly, I’m so grateful. I’m not a brat about it. I feel very glad to have it that way, but I also worked very hard to have it that way. A lot of decisions being made properly. A lot of fucking work.

I was listening to “Good Times, Bad Times” by Zeppelin the other day and the awesome feeling when the guitar solo kicks in.

JH: Yeah, it gives you a rush.

It reminded me of how your new record has that kind of wall of layering and an impact of sound, but it is more anarchic and punk informed. “Good Times, Rad Times.”

JH: It’s got a lot going on but it’s not complicated. It’s layered.

There’s still space to some songs and you’ll hear almost old school hip-hop elements and acid sounds and Supertramp. You can feel the beat but it all sits well in the mix.

JH: We knew how to make it the best, not squelching it but not relying to heavily on any one part so it’s all part of the whole.

(Kurt Midness comes in and we all talk for awhile)

JH: How did the Wino thing come about again, Kurt?

KM: I did an interview with St. Vitus.

JH: That’s right.

KM: I’m a big fan and loved all his bands and shit. He came out to meet me and I was like, “What do I say? Do I call him Wino or by his first name?” But he was cool. He was just like, “Hey, what’s up? I’m Wino.” He was kind of skeptical of the split at first with Kurt Vile being on it. He was like, “Is that guy from a punk band or something?” I said that “Vile” was his real name and he does lots of finger picking (laughing). I really like Wino. That dude rules. He’s a sick guitar player. Within a genre he’s big as shit but his music is bigger than that.

It’s true, man. I used to go to shows at Coney Island High or CBGB’s and see him kill it.

KM: Yeah, I’d go see Spirit Caravan and there’d be 10 people there.

The new Black Bananas record is adventurous. Was it a challenge, Kurt?

I think the last record we went about it making a record like a rock band would and this one we wanted to be a little more out there. There was a lot of experimentation. Stuff that ended up becoming actual songs were sometimes one take! Stuff I played, sometimes I didn’t even know they were recording me. I’d get done playing and they’d be like, “We loved it.” I didn’t even know they were recording me. Some songs started as vague sketches. Then we finished the song “Rad Times” and were really happy with it. At that point every song from there on had to be that good. We had to like it that much.

JH: You want a beer, man? They just brought a ton in.

I’m actually taking a break. I just had surgery and also just wanna take it easy. Thanks though.

JH: Oh, yeah. You gotta take it easy then.

KM: As far as the new sounds, we all kind of got into something we weren’t really lookin’ for. I heard somebody bumpin’ Zapp really loud. This dude had a table set up with stuff from this record label…

JH: They sold them at 7-11. Thump Records!

KM: It was all old school stuff and compilations that seemed semi-legit at best. I don’t know if it was a totally legit label.

Like K-Tel compilations?

JH: These are kind of area specific to Southern California. I think this guy kind of consigned them to all the various gas stations. There’d be comps and we’d get them. It was awesome.

KM: You’d hear a song and think you knew it but then be like, “Wait? Who the fuck even does that song.” I guess I don’t know Lakeside!

JH: Lakeside. The Gap Band. Random shit and a lot of one hit wonders. It’s really big, what’s that one…the talking one? It’s gonna drive me crazy. Shit. It was a constant, though.

KM: But I went over and heard the guy blasting Zapp and I kinda bought like 5 cds.

JH: I grew up in D.C. and that was the music you heard, so this was a nice revisiting and these guys getting me into it to plus putting it on top of the other stuff that we’d come to collectively embrace.

What were some breakthrough musical moments for you as an artist growing up or later in life, when you heard something and it changed your perspective or how you heard and looked at art? I can’t even count how many pagan keg parties in the woods in the Catskill Mountains where some friends and I would play “Ray O Vac” or ‘The Sewers of Mars” and trip out on the sounds.

JH: That’s rad. Well, early on I came to realize that “punk” was bullshit because it labeled itself. Right there I knew that if you put a label to yourself and stood for that it totally meant that you were set. If something came along in life that was diametrically opposed to the thing you claimed to be, you limited yourself so much. I knew I’d never be something where somebody knows what you are. They won’t. They’ll never know. The human being is too complex.

KM: For me it was musically when I started playing with RTX and getting to know Jennifer’s approach and her dedication to not doing something that’s already been done. I don’t think a lot of bands talk about music like that. They talk about trying to redo something that’s already been done. So, yeah…I’d say that was an influence.

You do what you love. In the 80’s all these artists would try and change the world and do “We Are The World.” But, I feel like your band should be played everywhere in the world at once and it would warp people’s minds and they would say, “Holy shit! What just happened.” It would actually change the world into a better place!

KM: We should do that.

JH: I also think if a riff has been done before, sure…use it. But put it in a fresh context. It has meaning. That brings it a fresh element. Familiarity but a new look.

KM: People said when WESTERN XTERMINATOR came out it sounded like Ratt. I mean, I get why they might say that but if you play Ratt and then RTX, it is not the same thing.

JH: I don’t care to discuss all that or care about bad writing in general.

(Kurt kind of wanders out of the room)

“PB & J” and on this album “Hot Stupid” show you aren’t afraid to use auto-tune as an effect on your vocals. It stressed out indie rock purists!

JH: Yeah! Yeah! People limit themselves. Do you actually hate the technology or the application of it? You hate something so much that you can’t hear beyond the way it is used?

How have you visualized the art aesthetic for Black Bananas compared to how you presented the art in the past?

JH: I don’t have some grand Malcolm McLaren vision for how it should be. All the art and every image for this band will define itself. The cover art was already done and said RTX and I wrote the guy and told him to change it to Black Bananas. I made some other artwork but we’d already been making the music and seeing that artwork anyway.

When you do an art gallery show or design fashion…what is your headspace like when working in a visual medium instead of sound?

JH: The fashion thing, I don’t consider that art at all. When working with different companies I know what I like. I come up with an idea. I’m not trying to be cutting edge. This pair of jeans I have on. See, it’s got the “J” on the butt here. I’ve gotta make them. I just brought in a pair of my jeans that I sewed up and they took the measurements and I said, “Can you make that?” So they are just making stuff I wanna wear. Some of the things they want, certain things…there was a dress in one of the collections. I’m not against dresses but I don’t wear them. So I think about what dress my friend would like and I imagine. That’s not artwork. On a visual level with galleries, it’s the same aesthetic with Royal Trux. People do a lot of collages now but it was original based back then. I’d do my own drawings and then fill in a collage. Some of the CD’s and the Box Set has stuff.

I remember the fold out from TWIN INFINITIVES.

JH: Yeah. It’s all a big blur. Don’t ask me. I’m like, don’t ask me. Who are you gonna ask? Drag City has a lot of my original artwork. They did a show with some of the stuff. Those were really big pieces, basically taking a photo of these Native American paintings and projecting them on a wall. Painting them but changing them. Keeping the projection but working within it. That kind of artwork is very pervasive but it’s kind of the way I’ve been doing it since we started Royal Trux.

It’s also very Pop even though it has an Animism and spiritual side. What do you feel you want to do next? Are you gonna take things as they go? This was the longest time between records.

JH: We’ve already started putting stuff together. We’re just gonna keep on going with it, man.

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