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@silvershamr0ck
PRETEND ITS STILL THE 20TH
50 years of the moaner !!
never ask a woman her age, a man his salary, and a black christmas fan what billy did to agnes
wanted to draw him all curled up like a cat
What is transandrophobia and why is it called that? By the guy who coined it and is kind of tired of seeing it defined in the opposite of what it's meant to describe.
In it's most simple definition. Transandrophobia is the way that the fear of men impacts the material reality and mental/physical health of transgender men.
Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men and/or masculinity effects transgender men’s ability to access queer and transgender spaces, sexual assault survivor resources, and reproductive health care.
Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men and/or masculinity holds back transgender men from transitioning or from presenting as masculine.
Transandrophobia, is the way the fear of men and/or masculinity results in the disowning of transgender men from previous found families and the isolation of transgender men in general.
Transandrophobia, is the way the fear of men and/or masculinity has resulted in people using their trauma as an excuse for abusing transgender men, physically, sexually, and emotionally.
Transandrophobia, is the way the fear of men has resulted in people refusing admittance to “male identified people” to certain queer events and safe spaces.
Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of masculinity has led to people assuming that butches across the gender spectrum are inherently violent and hyper-sexual.
Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men and/or masculinity results in the forced feminization of transgender men in queer spaces, with the insistence that those who refuse to feminize themselves to make others more comfortable should not be allowed entrance to certain queer spaces.
Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men has led people to assuming that butches who were assigned female at birth, are at risk of becoming the enemy (a man) and should not be given the same amount of trust as a feminine presenting cis woman.
Transandrophobia, is when that the fear of men being in women’s spaces prevents trans men and non-binary people who present as male from accessing gynecological care, abortions, and birth control.
Transandrophobia, is when transgender men must make themselves smaller to be seen as “one of the good ones” and it is when a trans man who is loud or sexual or Black or Brown or too masculine is seen as a threat to the safety of other transgender people.
Transandrophobia, is when transgender men who speak up about how the normalized way of speaking ill about men in feminist and queer spaces has made them activity suicidal, de-transition, or prevented them from transitioning, are told to “shut up and sit down” or “good.”
Transandrophobia, is not when trans men face misogyny – that is just a trans man facing misogyny (which all trans men face, because misogyny and sexism effects everyone, not just women). However, transandrophobia is when someone says that trans men don’t face misogyny because they are men, make claims that trans men benefit from misogyny since they are men, or insist that trans men’s experiences with misogyny aren’t as valid or as bad as when a woman or non-male person faces misogyny.
Transandrophobia, is when trans men’s struggles are dismissed as being less important, because men don’t need help or men already have help or men don't face real struggles.
Transandrophobia, is when people refuse to acknowledge that the patriarchy see’s transgender men as failed women and not men, which is why transgender men do bot benefit from the patriarchy but are instead violently and systematically punished by it.
Transandrophobia is that and a whole lot more, I would need a book to describe the entirety of the issue, I have been writing a book on it for over six years and re-writing it over and over because if I say it wrong, or say it with too much emotion, or not enough emotion, or with too many numbers, or not enough numbers, and publish it without using perfect wording, trans men might not get another chance to speak up for a long ass time and we will once again have to find new words to say "Pretty please treat me like a human being and let me have access to the things I need in order to survive." and "Pretty please consider that if a large group of people from a minority are telling you they are being oppressed by these actions and fears, then maybe you should believe them or at least the material statistical evidence of that oppression, since you probably trust journals more than us describing our reality and lived experiences."
A question!
When you say that transandrophobia is not trans men facing misogyny, are you saying that you don’t think that misogyny is a part of how transandrophobia functions and that misogyny and transandrophobia are separate things, or that there are experiences of trans men which would better be discussed as ‘misogyny’ than ‘transandrophobia’ because transandrophobia is more specific than misogyny + transphobia for trans men (which can be described as misogyny against trans men and transphobia against trans men) and more an intermingling of those two forces with anti-masculinity.
Because I’ve seen a few people interpreting it as the former, while I had an interpretation of that paragraph more like the latter.
I mean: There are experiences of trans men which would better be discussed as ‘misogyny’ than ‘transandrophobia’ because transandrophobia is more specific than misogyny + transphobia for trans men.
For example, if a trans man is told he shouldn't enter the STEM field because his brain is hardwired for humanitarian studies instead of math because he's afab, that's sexism and misogyny. However, if a trans man is told that he shouldn't transition while he's in his STEM major because it will ruin his reputation as being an educated female and that his transition will break the hearts of young girls who want to enter STEM that's transandrophobia. Or if a trans man has a scholarship for women in STEM and transitions, only to get his scholarship revoked because he's no longer a woman in STEM, that's transandrophobia - because it's the removal of a needed support system that would have allowed an under repsesnted gender minority (men of the trans experience) acsess to a field of study that aggressively blocks people like him for entering, under the assumption that "now he's a man, he doesn't deserve this support".
Transandrophobia was coined to talked about a specific topic. Most queer people are willing to admit that trans men face misogyny (though they will usually insist that it doesn't effect us as much or that it's only if we're not passing, which isn't true) however, rarely will people admit that trans mens issues do not begin and end with "basic vanilla misogyny" or they will refuse to acknowledge that some forms of systematic oppression and lateral aggressions directed at trans men have nothing to do with being perceived as or assumed to be a cisgender woman, but instead have to do with us being perceived as a transgender man. (And being perceived as a transgender man means being perceived on a spectrum that includes everything from failed/broken woman to violent male threat, or often both at the same time by the same person)
@boreal-sea
So, firstly: I fully support Saint in clarifying how he defines the word he coined. I think that's great! I can absolutely see the usefulness of this term.
A-polite-melody is tagging me here because I made a post saying that due to Saint's clarifications, I will not be using transandrophobia to describe my personal experiences, and instead I will be using anti-transmasculinity and/or transmisandry. This is because for me, anti-transmasculinity IS when I face misogyny. For me, misogyny is not separable from transphobia or from a fear of men and how that affects my livelihood as a transmasc person.
Some people find it useful to only talk about the way a fear of men influences transmascs. That's great. More power to everyone! I fully agree that "the way the fear of men affects the material reality and mental/physical health of transgender men" is 100% a thing transmascs deal with! And I think including that is absolutely vital to any definition of anti-transmasculinity.
I personally need a term that is broader. I need a term that includes everything covered by Saint's definition of transandrophobia, plus more. I need it to include misogyny and sexism, a fear of men/masculinity, and transphobia, and it needs to incorporate how all of those intersect to affect me as a transmasc person.
I was among the people who thought misogyny was an inherent part of transandrophobia, and I was defining it as such. I will stop doing that moving forward!
For folks who like transandrophobia as a term, please continue on!! I support you!!!
Thank you!
There is 100% room for multiple terms that overlap in out community to discuss our issues. Transandrophobia is a part of anti-transmasculinity. I don't use the term anti-transmasculinity, because for me it's too broad of a topic and too vague (for me to be able) to write about in a way that is effective at tackling the material issues that trans men face. (Again, for me specifically. I'm sure other people out there are utilizing it in a productive way that advocates for change. And I'm sure many other are just happy to have it as a way of having a word to use when you need to vent!!)
Transandrophobia, as a word, is specific because it's meant to allow people to effectively discuss how to make changes in our communities to prevent the intentional erasure of trans men in queer spaces while providing a dialect on why those issues exist (because people are afriad of us or of who we might hypothetically become like, due to patriarcal trauma being unchecked and allowed to manifest into its own oppressive force).
Having a strong vocabulary of words to create a productive dialect is an important part of any movement and words will naturally develop as people find ways to explain our shared experiences and our communities needs.
Suddenly, A Man: A Trans Androgyne on Androsexism and Misogyny.
While not finished just yet, I am actively in the process of finding and collecting my resources and citing my claims. On top of that, I have been reading into transfeminist and TERF ideology in order to properly give that side an introduction and then a very critical response. This book is criticizing the binary, not just proposing theory to destroy it.
Until then, please read the Introduction and the Pre-Section Note and tell me what you think!
THIS IS NOT THE FULL BOOK BUT RATHER THE DRAFTS OF THE INTRODUCTION AND PRE-SECTION NOTE. This is a free listing made to function as a sneak
autism really is the most hyper objectified disorder in terms of people watering it down to being cute or quirky and not struggling with reading people's social cues, food textures, overstimulation, delayed socialization and being mega stigmatized and vulnerable to abuse.
I've seen so many "why can't y'all get hyperfixated on learning social cues" or "small talk is easy" like did you people forget that autism affects your ability to socialize severely or do you just think autism is just being a "silly little guy" disorder.
I think what's worse is seeing other autistic people with the superiority complex assume that anyone who doesn't mask or manage their disorder properly aren't worthy of respect and understanding.
"just learn how to talk to people and be normal-"
what if I ripped you into shreds
I am a very autistic person who has trouble socializing and giving eye contact, i would be lying further if I said this disorder didn't cause me to be mega alienated and treated with abuse growing up
they should invent a cigarette that gives you vitamins and hrt and shit
TESTOSTEROEN CIGARETTE BEING SMOKED BY A BUTCH DYKE OUTSIDE THE BAR SHE SHOTGUN THR SMOKE INTO MYMOUTH I GET SO HARD I PASS OUT SMASH MY HEAD AND DIE
sorry that was meant for the tags
it’s okay. You’ve painted a beautiful and true picture
"Affirmation" & Malgendering
"Fine, I'll 'respect' your gender, but I'll make it absolutely miserable for you. What? You don't like the way I'm 'affirming' your gender? Guess you'll have to stop being a (trans) man then."
I want to put something out there about what I call "malgendering". I see trans men talk about the phenomenon and acknowledge it as a part of antitransmasculinity but not the concept of "malgendering" itself and what it's purpose is, and as trans men and transmasculine people are especially caught in the lose-lose situation between misgendering and malgendering I think it is an important concept to establish. The erasure of transmasculinity, particularly as a unique gender and gendered experience, also serves to keep the transmasculine trapped within this double-bind, positioned between the gender binary of cis patriarchal ideas of womanhood and manhood, where for us there is only misgendering (being abused with the Woman gender) or malgendering (being abused with the Man gender).
I define malgendering as the practice of "validating" someone's gender identity only when it can be used against them and to hurt them, and malgendering almost always involves the enforcement of only the most negative sexist stereotypes available onto the victim with none of the "positives". If misgendering is forcefully pushing you back into your 'proper place' such as by calling you a "girl" or a "her" and showing you that you're really a woman through sexual assault -malgendering is scaring and traumatizing you into it by using your own gender against you. Malgendering is the realization that you don't need to misgender someone to hurt them or to punish them for the way they identity and push them towards the gender they're 'supposed' to be - you can do all that through 'validation'. It's psychological warfare on the sense of self.
This violence and abuse under the guise of "respect" and "identity affirmation" creates plausible deniability of intent and places the blame on the victim for "identifying that way", so much so that even other trans people will defend it and believe it's not maligned (especially because "but being seen as and treated as your gender is what trans rights is all about!" and "errm but its transphobic to not treat u this way?/ur misgendering urself by wanting to not be treated this way :/" with the hidden message being "don't like it? stop being trans"), even when faced with evidence of the (very much intended) effects it has on stalling and outright eliminating transmasculinity (ie. repression, detransition, suicide).
Some examples I can pull off the top of my head:
A transphobe is talking about a pregnant trans man. The whole energy of the Facebook video is 'comedic', and while calling birth the most “feminine” thing someone can do and alluding to how the trans man is really a woman, they still use he/him and call him a “guy” (in air-quotes). Not out of any respect but because the idea of a man being pregnant, calling a pregnant person a "he", and the very existence of the trans man in question, is the whole joke. In doing so, the transphobe has turned the act of using the proper pronouns and gendering him into a source of humiliation and made the experience of being properly gendered a demeaning one.
The Ukraine military situation where all males aged between 18 and 60 were banned from leaving the country and obliged to serve in the military. Trans women were denied passage out of the country "because they were men", and trans men were similarly denied passage out of the country "because they were men". With the discrepancy between invalidating the gender of trans women and "validating" the gender of trans men, you'd think the motivation behind this would be obvious - that trans people are expendable meat and it's better they die than cis people. It shouldn't of needed to be said that "I'm only affirming your gender because it allows me to put you in a position where you will likely suffer and die and put the blame for it on you" is not 'respect' or 'affirming' at all but somehow this was taken as evidence for the idea of that trans men are more 'respected' and seen as their genders than others (and are thus 'privileged').
A common one almost every trans guy deals with at some point is cis people threatening to beat trans men up (and often following through), because "If you're a man and not a woman (anymore) that means I can punch you," using the proximity to masculinity that transmasculine people claim as a justification for violence. Every other week there's a new story in online transmasculine spaces about someone having their ribs broken with "Since/if you want to be a man so bad-" preceding the attack.
The above is in a similar vein to when accounts of violence done to transmasculine people by cisgender men are brushed off and they're told something along the lines of "welcome to being a man", "that's just what men do to each other", "that's just the way things are with men", etc. along with the insistence that their attack had nothing to do with antitransmasculinity, making it an immutable problem with (cis)men as a whole - creating a sense hopelessness and that this is all they have to look forward to.
Transmasculine individuals being refused treatment, tests, or insurance for gynecological issues, especially cancer, despite the knowledge that they are transmasculine, because "men don't deal with these problems" and they don't want "men in women's spaces", and if you don't want to be 'treated like a man' and get the care you need (and not die), you're going to have to go ahead and detransition, change that M marker back to an F.
All of this functions to create contention, and eventually a rift, between the individual and their sense of gender identity. Creating an association between being gendered 'correctly' and 'respected' as your gender (and ultimately existing as a transmasculine person) with abuse, violence, helplessness, trauma, fear, isolation... and by making transmasculinity and transmanhood uninhabitable and driving a wedge between the individual and their sense of gender identity you can more easily drag them back to their 'proper' place. Plant seeds of doubt by making being transmasculine an exceedingly unhappy experience. Make them think that everything that's happened is their own fault for choosing to be transmasculine or trying to be a man. That maybe since they're so unhappy this isn't for them. That living as a transmasculine person is just too difficult and they're not cut out for it, that if they "gave up" and were to be women again things would be easier and they would be safer and happier.
This also all serves to maintain cis patriarchal ideas of gender and the gender binary and police the boundaries of manhood, in a way I can't articulate right now.
Through all this, despite being called "men" during malgendering, we are not actually perceived as such. We are always an "other". Acknowledging us as "men" is just another weapon, and why some transmascs flinch at the phrase "trans men are men". Our own genders are used to beat us.
Using a scrap from my .txt journals:
"[...] on the subject of having a core aspect of yourself taken from you and turned into a weapon to beat you with, with the result being that aspect of yourself now becoming a source of trauma and pain so you abandon it and lock it away like an awful secret, that’s exactly what happened with my gender.
Being genderless and a(nti)binary is what I’m most comfortable as, a(nti)gender is my ~real gender~, but I have to admit a lot of this is because I have been traumatized out of any gender with binary associations and have consequently come to know gender itself, and the act of gendering, as violence. Gender is but a designation for what exploitation, abuse, and violence can be enacted upon you and the justification there of. When someone asks whether you are "masc" or "femme", behind their back as they face you is a hammer in one hand, and a knife in the other, and what they are actually asking is if they can pummel you or lacerate you. When it comes to the “direction” I’m transitioning in though, it is obviously “masculine” (as much as a negation of "femininity" is always taken as stepping towards "masculinity") and you wouldn’t be entirely wrong to call me “transmasculine”, though I have been scared to death of being acknowledged as such."
My first encounter with malgendering was when I was 13 and had just started to realize I was "ftm" and looking for community online. My first exposure to any affirmation of transmasculinity was someone I came to respect reblogging a post about how Kill All Men includes trans men. This would set the precedent of the next decade of my life of existing while transmasculine. A decade of only hearing the words "trans men" and "transmasc" used negatively and as the butt of jokes that served to reinforce patriarchal ideas of gender. The consistent and relentless denial of transmasculinity as a unique gender and gendered experience, the denial of transmasculine reality especially in regards to misogyny, and continuous abuse and threats of violence, all under the guise of affirming trans men's genders as men (and affirming the gender binary in the process). A decade of having antitransmasculine sentiment fed to me in every way possible.
For me, the experiences of antitransmasculinity and malgendering from non-transmascs has effectively "chased" me out of my transmasculinity and any acknowledgement of it. For years I have hidden my transmasculinity and presumed "AGAB" out of fear, even in queer and supposedly trans-friendly spaces. I have not been able to associate with any “masculine” language in reference to myself without feeling that I am in imminent danger, have made a grave mistake, and suffocating in anticipation of punishment. I have always been scared of posting any of my art that eludes to my transmasculinity. I have always been terrified of being referred to or perceived as “transmasc”, a “trans man”, of being called a "guy" or “dude” or “bro”, of using "he/him" anywhere. All of it. Deep down on some level I do desire it, but it’s been forbidden and only aggravates existing wounds.
And this, in turn, pushed me out of associating with other transmasculine folks out of fear and internalized antitransmasculinity towards other transmasculine people, isolating me from any community or connection with anyone similar to me, exacerbating my loneliness and alienation as a youth to the point where now as an adult my ‘normal’ human social needs – connection, community, relationships, empathy – are completely broken. I don’t feel loneliness anymore, or the desire to connect to anyone, despite in ways being even more alone now than I was then. In a way I believe antitransmasculinity shaped the path of my schizoidism. Isolating and divorcing me from my transmasculinity and the world at large is what I understand to be yet another point of this type of antitransmasculine rhetoric - because when you've destabilized and isolated someone from their whole sense of self and community, they are much easier to control.
Just stumbled across your blog, just wanted to say I appreciate that you’re calling out some of these ‘narc abuse isn’t real posts’ that are overshadowing victims just trying to vent. Even if this is just a vent blog it’s sorta relieving to see someone say something about it 😭
Thanks. NPD is a trauma disorder and is hell for the person who has it, but it's also bad for the people around them. They don't like to acknowledge that, though.
she’ll come back from this, stronger than ever…
myth retellings, fantasy inspired by xyz culture and cultural appropriation
today the youtube algorithm led me to the best book related video essay i've ever watched and i simply have to (emphatically) recommend it here
it discusses the problems greek myth retellings have narratively, as books and as retellings, but more importantly it also touches upon the problem of cultural appropriation - something the lovers of speculative fiction inspired by cultures outside of the us and other anglophone countries are reluctant to acknowledge. as someone who's been an avid fantasy reader and booktube watcher for the past five years and who comes from one of the cultures anglophone authors like to get "inspired" by, i'm very passionate about this topic and i'd like to spread awareness about it since it seems that even a community as progressive as the online book community has a huge blind spot when it comes to sff, publishing and cultural appropriation. people tend to get very defensive and say stuff like this:
this is one of the top comments on the video essay above and, in my not at all humble opinion, it is a bad faith argument. on the surface the person is stating something it's hard to disagree with whereas what they really do is dismiss the concerns of the people complaining that their cultures are being stolen, trivialized and sold back to them. now, instead of talking about harmful structural problems in publishing that favors books by anglophone authors instead of translating and promoting foreign works, we're centering the conversation on a cosmopolitan author figure who contributes to Art and Culture by getting "inspired" by the cultures of other people - while willfully ignoring that this "inspired" author is almost always american, british or at the very least a native english speaker.
this is of course a nuanced issue and the solution isn't banning all authors from ever writing outside of their own culture. however, i do believe that in order to make the situation less unjust for authors and readers whose cultures popular anglophone authors like to borrow and profit from we need to acknowledge that something unjust is indeed happening and we need to recognize this injustice for what it is - cultural appropriation. even if the term offends the sensibilities of a reader who loves greek myth retellings or of an aspiring author who plans to write their very own fantasy inspired by eastern european folklore one day.
if this doesnt cover the fact that the specific issue is of the myths being 'translated' and replaced with christian themes while removing parts entirely and changing the myths drastically whats the point of even typing this one up . boo.
Narcissus was literally the name of a dude from greek mythology who was famous for loving himself so much that he starved or drowned to death from doing nothing but staring at his reflection in the river all day. He was famously self absorbed, selfish, and uncaring about anything or anyone in his life other than his own face, literally, when people say the word "narcissist" means, seflish, self absorbed, arrogant person, that is correct It is where the word literally comes from
--
Several versions of the myth have survived from ancient sources, one from Pausanias, the Greek traveler and geographer of the second century AD, and a more popular one from Ovid, published before 8 AD, found in Book 3 of his Metamorphoses. This is the story of Echo and Narcissus, a story within another story. The framing in Ovid of the story is as a test of the prophetic abilities of Tiresias, an individual who had been both a man and a woman, and whose sight was taken from him during a contest between Juno and Jove. He had taken Jove's side and Juno, angered, blinded him. In its place, Jove gave him future sight, or prophecy. The prophecy which made Tiresias's name for him was the story of Echo and Narcissus.
After being "ravaged" by the river god Cephissus, the nymph Liriope gave birth to Narcissus, who was "beautiful even as a child." As was apparently custom, she consulted the seer Tiresias about the boy's future, who predicted that the boy would live a long life only if he never "came to know himself". During his 16th year, after getting lost while hunting with friends, Narcissus came to be followed by a nymph, Echo.
Echo was an Oread (mountain nymph) and, like Tiresias, had a sensory ability altered after an argument between Juno and Jove. Echo had kept Juno occupied with gossip while Jove had an affair behind her back. In another similar version by Ovid, it Echo kept the goddess Hera occupied with stories while Zeus's lovers escaped Mount Olympus. As a punishment, Juno and Hera both took from Echo her agency in speech; Echo was thereafter never able to speak unless it was to repeat the last few words of those she heard.[5] Echo had deceived using gossip; she would be condemned to be only that from then on.
Meanwhile, Echo spied Narcissus, separated from his hunting friends, and she become immediately infatuated, following him, waiting for him to speak so her feelings might be heard. Narcissus sensed he was being followed and shouted "Who's there?" Echo repeated "Who's there?" Whilt this interaction continued, Echo came close enough so that she was revealed, and attempted to embrace him.[6] Horrified, he stepped back and told her to "keep her chains". Heartbroken, Echo wasted away, losing her body amidst lonely glens, until nothing of her but her chaste verbal ability remained.
Nemesis, the goddess of revenge, heard the pleas of a young man, Ameinias, who had fallen for Narcissus but was ignored and cursed him; Nemesis listened, proclaiming that Narcissus would never be able to be loved by the one he fell in love with.
After spurning Echo and the young man, Narcissus became thirsty. He found a pool of water which, in Ovid's account, no animal had ever approached. Leaning down to drink, Narcissus sees his reflection, which he finds as beautiful as a marble statue. Not realising it was his own reflection, Narcissus fell deeply in love with it. Thus both Tiresias's prophecy and Nemesis' curse came true in the same instance.[7][a][b] Unable to leave the allure of this image, Narcissus eventually realized that his love could not be reciprocated and he melted away from the fire of passion burning inside him, eventually turning into a gold and white flower.[8][9]
An earlier version ascribed to the poet Parthenius of Nicaea, composed around 50 BC, was discovered in 2004 by Dr Benjamin Henry among the Oxyrhynchus papyri at Oxford.[10][11] Again, like in Ovid, Narcissus lost his will to live and committed suicide. A version by Conon, a contemporary of Ovid, also ends in suicide (Narrations, 24). In it, a young man named Ameinias fell in love with Narcissus, who had already spurned his male suitors. Narcissus also spurned him and gave him a sword. Ameinias committed suicide at Narcissus's doorstep. He had prayed to the gods to give Narcissus a lesson for all the pain he provoked. Narcissus walked by a pool of water and decided to drink some. He saw his reflection, became entranced by it, and killed himself because he could not have his object of desire. Because of this tragedy, the Thespians came to honor and reverence Eros especially among the gods. A century later the travel writer Pausanias recorded a novel variant of the story, in which Narcissus falls in love with his twin sister rather than himself.[12][13] In all versions, his body disappears and all that is left is a narcissus flower. Echo is a well-known nymph in Greek mythology. She was an Oread, a mountain nymph. Hera, Zeus’s wife, scorned her and sentenced her to only being able to repeat the last words spoken by others. This was quite the curse for a young nymph who loved to chat. This is where the word ''echo'' came from. Echo ultimately comes to her ruin because of her love for Narcissus, the self-absorbed, self-loving mortal son of gods. In Greek mythology, Echo (/ˈɛkoʊ/; Greek: Ἠχώ, Ēkhō, "echo",[3] from ἦχος (ēchos), "sound"[4]) was an Oread who resided on Mount Cithaeron.[5] Zeus loved consorting with beautiful nymphs and often visited them on Earth. Eventually, Zeus's wife, Hera, became suspicious, and came from Mount Olympus in an attempt to catch Zeus with the nymphs. Echo, by trying to protect Zeus (as he had ordered her to do), endured Hera's wrath, and Hera made her only able to speak the last words spoken to her. So when Echo met Narcissus and fell in love with him, she was unable to tell him how she felt and was forced to watch him as he fell in love with himself.
Sometime after being cursed, Echo spied a young man, Narcissus, while he was out hunting deer with his companions. She immediately fell in love with him and, infatuated, followed quietly. The more she looked at the young man, the more she longed for him. Though she wished with all her heart to call out to Narcissus, Juno's curse prevented her.
During the hunt, Narcissus became separated from his companions and called out, "is anyone there" and heard the nymph repeat his words. Startled, Narcissus answered the voice, ‘come here,’ only to be told the same. When Narcissus saw that nobody had emerged from the glade, he concluded that the owner of the voice must be running away from him and called out again. Finally, he shouted, "This way, we must come together." Taking this to be a reciprocation of her love, Echo concurred ecstatically, "We must come together!"
In her delight, Echo rushed to Narcissus ready to throw her arms around her beloved. Narcissus, however, was appalled and, spurning her, exclaimed, ‘Hands off! May I die before you enjoy my body.’ All Echo could whisper in reply was, ‘enjoy my body’ and having done so she fled, scorned, humiliated, and shamed.
Despite the harshness of his rejection, Echo's love for Narcissus only grew. When Narcissus died, wasting away before his own reflection, consumed by a love that could not be, Echo mourned over his body. When Narcissus, looking one last time into the pool uttered, "Oh marvellous boy, I loved you in vain, farewell", Echo too chorused, "Farewell."
Eventually, Echo, too, began to waste away. Her beauty faded, her skin shrivelled, and her bones turned to stone. Today, all that remains of Echo is the sound of her voice.
Narcissus is in danger when he sees the image but not, because of that, lost. He is lost when he recognizes himself in the image. It is not until then that death becomes the only possible solution. Narcissus dies when he loses the illusion but cannot escape from the feeling that it has aroused; he dies when there is no hope left that the passion can be satisfied. — Vinge (1967a)[7]
^ Finally Narcissus realises that he has an insoluble problem and gives it a concise formulation: [Ovid writes] "Quod cupio, mecum est: Inopem me copia fecit." Translation: "What I desire is with me: I was destitute and made abundant.
its a pretty good descriptor of narcissism as a fundamental inability to truly love yourself and references of not even being able to recognize who you are in a reflection. wanting to love desperately but suffering and just dying because you cant truly have that love. and of course the interpersonal aspects to NPD present with echo.
There are some bad bitches on here but I am too busy with my theories
no! therapy will kill the patient! they need to vaguepost on tumblr.com to live