Alain Prost: Still, even as it turned out, it was a fantastic story, don’t you think? And I think, in a way, we’re missing a little of that today. (Motorsport, 1998.10)
There's a metaphor abt Senna's helmet in the vid. Inspired by an interview from Nuno Cobra(his coach)
it's possible to say that Senna had that kind of split personality. On the one side you had Ayrton, who is sensitive, loving, sweet, poetic, romantic, wise and careful. On the other side, there was Senna, who is explosive. Senna was very nervous, very agitated, stressed, bad tempered. He was often compromised and challenged. I think Ayrton suffered a lot in the hands of Senna.
So Ayrton was the human side of Senna. When he put the helmet on, he turned into a “stranger”, the ruthless Senna.
And before the imola accident, Senna took off his helmet in front of Alain.
On Saturday, after Roland Ratzemberger's fatal accident, that was not the Ayrton I used to know, he was really worried...
On Sunday, at lunch time, he went to see me and simply didn't say anything important. Everybody was watching that in slience. It looks like he just wanted to get close to me. And I really feel that he's so weak. That was the first time I saw him like that...
On that Sunday I thought, that's not Ayrton. He's fragile. He wasted five or ten minutes to come to me and say nothing. And then he went back to the garage.
So I finished my lunch and went to his garage...
Ayrton's ritual was to be completely focused on his thing in the car. He never took off the helmet, it was the first time he took off the helmet(before the races). He was doing some stretching in the garage...
I didn't want to bother him too much but he wanted me to stay, it seems that he just want to share a time with me.
he was happy that I came there to talk to him, and that was the last time.
In their last six months, Alain met the REAL Ayrton.
"There were three Ayrtons for me: the one before F1 when he was looking at my races, at everything I was doing, the way I was doing it; obviously the one when we were together, inside or outside the same team; and then the one when I retired." It was this last version that Prost says he grew to like adding he wouldn't have believed it existed "if I had not known this person myself."
But Ayrton was Senna, Senna was Ayrton. They're the same person after all. So still, he put the helmet on and went to his fate. As Ron Dennis said, "it's his obligation." Like an addiction, and he "can't drop it."
Jackie Stewart once said:
Ayrton Senna was the most dedicated racing driver I have ever met. He was totally immensed in his life of being a driver. It was what he lived for. I would say that in a high 90% range of Ayrton Senna's focus on Motor Racing. Stirling Moss, when he drove, was a man who had other likes in life. Niki Lauda had passions in life, Jackie Stewart had, Juan Manuel Fangio had. Ayrton Senna, I believe, was more focused than any of the names that I've just mentioned.
So I think for Ayrton Senna, life, or love, is seldom enough, and that's why we admire him so much as his pure spirit of racing. It's a beautiful paradox. He's different.
*thank you for reading my way too long thoughts <3
*please don't repost it to any other platforms(like ytb), on tbr is absolutely welcome!
"Once, she [Lilian de Vasconcellos Souza] was asked if it was true that she saw her husband's mechanics more than he saw her husband himself. And she jokingly replied: 'Actually, he's the one having an affair with the mechanics, because he spends all his time with them!'
Of course it was a joke, but it was easily distorted by those who wanted to label him as homosexual, as Nelson Piquet did. With me, Ayrton never wanted to talk about his wife. I realized that if I asked, he would answer, but I never wanted to delve into the subject."
Excerpt from the book "Senna: Le Veritá" by Franco Nugnes, 2024.
Hi silveryhill! Same anon with the long asks is back (sorry)
Idk if I would make any sense asking this, but how do you personally distinguish the real person from the real person ships/fiction? For example proquenna + all f1 rpf (no matter how you arrange it) is fascinating to me and because of this I started researching them to try and understand them better in order to write fics, over time as you research more into them it kinda, blocks out your enjoyment of those ship content in a kinda way???? Like I’m not sure if I’m making sense: essentially, when you research a real person more it’s harder and harder to fully immerse in the rpf stuff around them because on one hand your head is like “I literally don’t care fiction is fiction I’m gonna do what ever I want” and the other side of your head the more you research any real person thinks “but they won’t do anything like this/they won’t do this and that…..” and it kinda dims your enjoyment a lot. As a writer it’s really painful because the desire to make your rpf as close to the real individual as possible is strong. But when you try that too much you realize there’s not much one can write anymore…….and this kinda bleeds into your enjoyment of any rpf content around them
How do (or a better question is how would you, because I’m not sure if I’m just being weird here) you deal with this?
And as always, thanks for your deeply helpful responses. Wish you a lovely day
Love from anon 💗
I got another discussion going on, but this is also a topic I'm very interested and I want to do it properly. So it took me a few days I hope you don't mind
Abt the real person and their RPS(real person slash), I have to say, the real person is one thing, and RPS is completely another thing.
Essentially, I'm know very well that all the RPS are not real, it's just a way for fans to entertain, to interpret, in a certain way, writing, drawing or editing etc. And everybody has the right to share their understanding freely, and to create what they want as long as the law doesn't forbid it.
Therefore, I don't need to consciously distinguish one from the another, cuz the difference is already there, they are just two things. And the only connection between the two, it's me and my understanding abt them. And I know what I'm writing is only a way of conveying this kind of personal understanding rather than presenting what the real person's like in reality. Otherwise it should be called a biography instead of a fanfiction.
I'm very clear that it's completely mine. And my understanding comes from my years of research about the real person. That's why a fanfic could be on solid ground and at least I won't doubt myself what I'm writing is OOC or as you said felt that they won't do anything like this. If I don't even have the confidence myself, then how can I expect others to buy my story that they are like this. If I still have doubts, maybe it's cuz I have done my research, but I haven't done enough of them. It's quite like working on academic papers/dissertations actually-I cannot build a logical framework or reach a justifiable conclusion without enough data to back it up. The only difference is that I don't have a ddl to catch 🤣 I don't need to be hurry (and sometimes I can be lazy)
Nowadays, there’s zero barrier to writing—anyone can post anything at any time. That’s exactly why we’re seeing a massive boom in the number of fanfics, but actual good works still, are few and far between.
The more you know about the real person, the more you realize how rare it is to find a work that actually gets them right, and the less fanfics that you can enjoy. I just can't enjoy most fanfics anymore. Cuz based on what I have known, I can't be convinced by such stories. Honestly, in any fandom, RPS or not, as long as there's one or two fics good enough to make me feel that's right! they're like that! Or the story itself really touches the depths of my heart, and makes me believe that under certain circumstances, this could also be a possibility, that's what they would do. I'm already satisfied.
For me, what I write or when I write it's not always my decision. It's the inspiration of a fic, an idea, comes to me, and I feel the responsibility to write it down or it would trouble me all the time.
I think, it would happen this way when your understanding abt the real person have come to a certain extent, when you have collected "enough data". Because inspiration is just the sum of your experiences and knowledge. We can’t create or write beyond the boundaries of what we know. And when the inspiration comes, writing becomes a very natural outcome rather than the other way around.
For example, it's not that I saw a nice kink/prompt, I think I can fit them in (occasionally I can if I'm lucky, but not always), or for whatever reasons I want to write, but when writing, I found out that I don't know enough about them, so I do my researchs, then I realize that actually they won't do such things, they can't fit in the story that has already been in my head.
So, I think it would be nice to dig into the real person as much as possible before write anything. Be patient and wait for the real inspiration to come, to see if I really got something that I must write. And tbh the digging part is far more interesting than writing 🤣
I don't even want to write, to be the slave of inspiration. Cuz I'm very lazy, and the process of writing is very painful. I'm struggling with every word I wrote. I'm afraid that my poor language system can't deliver what I got in my mind. I have read what I have written a hundred times before anyone reads it for the first and maybe the only time. And I'm not very talented. I can't even write 1k words within just a day or two. It might take me months to write and revise it again and again. My only work on prosenna took me almost six months, and it's no more than 5k words, on piquenna more than a year and I don't finish yet 🤣 Yet I like to write at the same time. I enjoy the whole process as well. You know, writing is not about him. I don't care what the real person's like in reality. I'm sure they won't literally fuck each other in real life. And it's not about you, people who read my work, it's the icing on the cake if you like it, and it doesn't matter to me if you don't. I'm a very selfish person. It's always about me. When writing, I'm happy, I'm cheerful, I'm loving what I'm doing. It's not a burden, not a pressure, but a pleasure.
So you might ask yourself a few questions before writing a RPS (or any fanfic)
Have I done enough digging to capture the core traits of the real person that move me the most?
What kind of understanding abt the real person makes me feel that I must deliver it in my story?
Is the writing itself enough pleasure for you to be happy and satisfied, no matter how painful it might be at the same time, and whether or not people like it afterward?
Everyone works in a different way. It's just my personal thoughts above, and I hope it's helpful for you.
Hey @stupidnicknamehere , there's nothing to be awkward, you're always welcome to jump in the conv and give different opinions! I hope you don't mind that I can't do this in comment cuz it's a reply way too long 🙏🏻
Guess opinions are quite divided cuz the different infos we know?
I know the order was originally arranged by the amounts of championships, but as far as I know, Braga wasn't behind this. The whole funeral was mostly organized by the government. And the protocol officers, they weren't necessarily know all the pallbearers(some of them are foreign guests) and their personal relationship with Senna. They thought by rank and titles would be a good idea since usually it would be appropriate in diplomatic contexts.
It's part of why I said politics were highly involved, and quite terrible that it can't be his own family to hold this. It was a state funeral, everything was in a hurry and everyone was in shock. I think it's more possible a bad coincidence rather than a deliberate arrangement?
Betise rearranged the order, and it's also her said in an interview that she thinks "Braga was the only one Ayrton told everything to".
(Tho I know she was considered a traitor by many back then cuz she married Head later. And she seems not that close to the family after Senna's death tho she could work for Senna in the first place cuz of Mr. Milton's recommendation.)
And I know Braga was a friend of Emmo at first, he helped Ayrton in Europe when he wasn't famous yet, and he's kinda father-like to him, not just because of age but also his experiences on business and lots of things. And Braga always kept a room just for Ayrton in his house in Portugal. That's why I think Ayrton respected Braga a lot and what Betise said on this matter is true.
My opinion just based on what I've known, but maybe you know more abt their relationship, and pls feel free to share them! I'm very interested.
Abt her book, I'm not even sure if it was just Braga himself who encouraged her to do so, or maybe Braga's wife played an important role in this? I know she's a good friend of AG and at that time writing might be a way for the girl to pull herself together. But ofc from another side maybe she was doing this for money.
The book itself, I don't think it's nicely written tbh but she published that at a very special moment. And I'm wondering what's your thoughts on the timing she chose.
(*add here, I should also be clear that both Betise and Galisteu lies a lot...conflicting narratives in different interviews from different times, it's very hard to know which words are true at times)
And thx for mentioning abt the charities, for sure it's an important part of the reason that his family demands a positive image. Like I said it's difficult to tell children who likes him otherwise, they might be too young to understand all the controversies.
Oh speaking of this, there's also one thing I'm curious abt cuz I don't know how charity works in Brazil but in my country, charities are often involved with some tax free policies so sometimes it's a just a different mode of business as well.
Abt deification, I think it's complicated but also simple, Gilles might be another good example.
Above all you need to be generally, deeply loved by people, then it's the sacrifice, his death, especially in Ayrton's case the way he died, he lived to drive, and he died driving in front of millions.
And the myth (Ayrton was already a myth when he was alive), and image/marketing which helps the myth growing. (even some luck cuz marketing isn't always a help...)
But essentially it's abt nostalgia, or to say "saudade" in Portuguese, based on the fact that people still love him, and we also miss the old ourselves/hope we were still in the good old days, watching how Senna flying on the track, tho there's thousands versions of him in everyone's heart and he's getting more and more perfect in people's memory. He was a real human being, but he is also an abstract concept/icon now, just like John Lennon.
And I'm with you on Ayrton was troubled by idolatry, but I don't really think that was for he was deifed, or there's some interviews that I didn't know abt? Cuz from the interviews I have watched, what he was often talking abt it's the kind of trouble that you would have when you are famous. He often said that he was hurt by exciting fans cuz they would like to touch him, crowded him inside, and he can't be on the streets with his girlfriend just like normal people, paparazzi/fans everywhere etc.
And when he was alive he was working with Globo and other presses which tend to deify him. And he was talking abt God on the media. I won't say many times, but it was on important occasions like when he was winning, and it's things like "God is behind me", "I saw Him", and his out of body experience. Why nobody else sees or have Him with him or up in the sky saw my shell driving in the race?
One of the basic precepts of Christianity that I know (as a pagan who just have some scholar interests), is that God loves all men equally. It's therefore no way to say Him favours anyone, especially oneself in a sporting contest. That would be like "I talked to God and God agreed with me". But in fact it's just Ayrton himself believes it that way, that he has the God given right to win.
A man’s faith should guide him in his daily life, but there's no place in sport for God-botherers. I think that's exactly why athletes would not emphasis his religious side sm now, tho back then the situation was a bit different. I think, people choose to compete in sports for any number of reasons, most of which are entirely selfish, especially in F1, they are all egoist. If you want to win, it can't be other way.
So, I definitely won't say that Ayrton was entirely responsible for his deification, but he has to be responsible partly. And I truly understand that helped him getting more stronger than other drivers on the mental side, and that's very important for improving his performance in the race as well.
I think sometimes he's not even deliberately doing so to be a myth, but just naturally. And I have to say that I mean absolutely no judging or blaming, cuz I might have done the same if I were him in that kind of environment.
Also, I know he often admitted that he has flaws, as you said that's true, even in the famous 88 championship interview with Leme he was saying that everyday he was trying to be a better man.
But he likes to do that or not, it's a very subjective thing and I'm just guessing, I can't speak for the anon before but myself that he might not like it sm. He admitted it cuz he's being honest, but generally, people don't really like to admit/show our weakness and shortages to everyone frankly.
Again just I feel it this way. I can't read Ayrton's mind or speak in his name.
In the end, I would be glad that if you'd like to share more infos you know or opinions you have, we don't have to be on the same page! But we might get some new understandings on all these by discussing! (And maybe use the ask box if you don't mind? It's more convenient for long replys
Hi! and thank u so much for your sweet reply. Honestly I love having these kinds of debates and sharing different points of view. sorry for the delay, I had to gather all my thoughts and turn the chaos in my head into something kinda coherent… so here we go.
First of all, the matter concerning Betise Assumpção is rather complex. Even though she currently presents herself as a close figure within Ayrton’s circle, the truth is that in earlier interviews she stated that her relationship with him was strictly professional and distant.
I would prefer not to address the matter of Patrick Head here. Nevertheless, it clearly represents a conflict of interest. It is important to recall that Head was not acquitted; he was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, though he did not serve prison time due to the statute of limitations. The Senna family severed ties with Betise following her marriage to Head.
More recently, Betise herself admitted in a podcast that the list of pallbearers was a calculated decision by Antônio Carlos de Almeida Braga, intended to project an image of grandeur and reconciliation. In other words, it was a public relations act designed to position Senna’s legacy on a global scale. Braga, as Senna’s mentor and manager, acted as a kind of ‘patron’ safeguarding the brand, much as he had done with other stars such as Guga, Pelé, and Fittipaldi.
Betise also confessed to having lied by invoking the Senna family’s name in order to manipulate the protocol and ensure that Hill—who was not a close friend of Senna and had only known him for a few months—was placed where she and Braga wanted him. This choice excluded Senna’s own brother, Leonardo, who was not a world champion, as well as other close friends. Gerhard Berger himself protested the decision, requesting a change of position. His objection reflects the tension between the cold rigidity of state protocol and the human desire for mourning to be carried out by those who truly loved the deceased.
186 likes, 114 comments - ayrtonsennahonest on March 1, 2026: "A máscara da série caiu: A verdade que a família Senna sempre soube e a HBO o
It was not Adriane Galisteu’s idea to capitalize on her grief. Rather, it was Braga—introduced as her ‘friend and savior’—who conceived the book and covered the costs of publication and promotion. His primary objective was to control the narrative surrounding Senna’s final months, preventing the tabloid press from constructing its own sensationalist version and ensuring that the image of the relationship was framed under a romantic and carefully managed light.
The book was released in November 1994, only six months after Senna’s death, and became a publishing phenomenon with 310,000 copies sold in Brazil and international editions. This launch was not improvised; it was a media campaign that leveraged national mourning to create an alternate narrative. Braga turned Galisteu into a public figure, but did so under a ‘veil of romanticism and purity’ that contrasted with the real tensions between her and the Senna family. The book portrayed her as the ‘last official girlfriend,’ granting her a status the family did not recognize and sparking a conflict that continues to this day.
Another aspect highlighted in the HBO documentary 'Meu Ayrton' is Betise’s active attempt to diminish the role and image of Ayrton’s father, Milton da Silva. She claimed that his relationship with his son was cold and tense, that he did not speak English, and that Ayrton was ashamed of him—seeing Braga instead as his ‘ideal father figure.’ This is demonstrably false when considering the archival material in which Senna praised his family, acknowledged his father’s importance, and would run to embrace him after victories. It is true that their relationship was not perfect and had its tensions, as Ayrton sought independence and control over his life and career, which may have caused friction. However, acknowledging those tensions is very different from portraying Milton as an obstacle or a figure Ayrton rejected.
This narrative contributes to the image of a ‘toxic’ or ‘controlling’ family, while Braga and Betise present themselves as the only ones who truly understood and supported Senna in his fullness. It was, ultimately, a public relations strategy aimed at controlling the Ayrton’s legacy and memory. That is why I believe much of the negative discourse surrounding the Senna family is an orchestrated narrative. In essence, it has become an all-out battle over Senna’s memory.
For now, however, let us turn to the subject of charities and philanthropic organizations you asked about: The Ayrton Senna Institute, like many other Third Sector organizations in Brazil and around the world, operates under a system of tax incentives—primarily for donors. The aim is to encourage private investment in social causes, aligning public interest with private benefit. This means that the greatest tax exemption advantages go to the corporate donors working with the Institute, not to the Institute itself. Moreover, by law, it is strictly prohibited to distribute profits or surpluses among the members or founders of a charitable organization, and this rule applies equally to the Ayrton Senna Institute.
Now, let us address the subject of deification during one’s lifetime and marketing. To begin with, working with TV Globo was not really a matter of choice, as it is the largest multimedia company in Brazil. If you wanted to be known in the country and secure support from potential sponsors, it was practically the only option available.
I also notice that you placed particular emphasis on the issue of religion. The truth is that the way religion is approached in other countries is not the same as in Latin America. Here, it is very common for athletes to speak openly about their faith. Football players such as Kaká or boxer Saúl ‘Canelo’ Álvarez are well known for their gestures of faith on the field or in the ring. In Brazil, it is common to see players kneel to thank God after scoring a goal. Senna was no exception; his way of expressing faith was consistent with the religious culture of his country.
I would also like to point out that Christianity and Catholicism, while sharing a common origin, are not the same. Now, even if your interpretation—that when Senna spoke of God he meant he felt favored by God—is valid, it remains subjective. From my perspective, it could just as well have been a reminder to himself that he was not perfect, that he was entirely fallible and vulnerable to something greater: the unpredictability of life. When Senna said ‘God is with me,’ he was not claiming to be God’s favorite; rather, he was entrusting himself to something larger in a context of extreme danger. It was a way of placing his life in the hands of providence, not of asserting a divine right to victory. The press, especially the international press, oversimplified his statements. For a Formula 1 driver in the 1980s and 1990s, when death was a constant shadow, faith was an anchor—not a shield of arrogance.
Now, regarding the issue of deification. I must say I do not share your view that it is merely nostalgia. For the average Latin American, it is common to be dismissed or overshadowed in favor of Europeans. This is NOT only about skin color, but also about culture, features, language, and countless other aspects that define who we are. Senna mattered because he stood firm in a predominantly European sport and refused to abandon his cultural identity (and yes, religiosity was part of that). He accepted the burden of carrying the expectations of a fractured nation, and that was not marketing—it was reality. Today, he is remembered because he remains one of the few role models Latin America has. He consistently highlighted values central to our culture: faith, dedication, discipline, and perseverance.
But deification does not stem solely from that. Take the case of Diego Armando Maradona, for example—a deeply flawed man, yet a prodigy in his craft. He was immortalized in collective memory for giving Argentina victory over England after the devastation of the Falklands War. Maradona himself linked that triumph to the war, describing it as a kind of revenge against the English.
Deification is not just marketing or nostalgia; it is deeply rooted in a society’s need to believe in something, to have a hero who embodies its values and hopes. This need is especially pressing in Latin America, where a history of political, economic, and military failures and humiliations has left people yearning for figures who remind them that they, too, can.
So, my point is, I believe that although many people have tried to position themselves as guardians of Senna’s memory and to construct their own narrative—whether portraying Ayrton Senna as flawless and pristine or otherwise—the truth is that no one created the myth. It is far greater and more powerful than any marketing campaign.
Those who idolized Senna during his lifetime did not do so because they thought he was perfect or because a press agency sold him as a saint. They did so because, in a country that had been ruled by a dictatorship, that was struggling with rampant inflation, and that was viewed internationally as a developing nation, Senna became a beacon of hope. For many, he was the driver who refused to bow to the system, who asserted his identity, his faith, his passion, and who won without renouncing who he truly was. That was not marketing. That resonated with thousands of people around the world.
Myth-making is not based on a polished image. That is why even the attempts of image managers to control his legacy are, at their core, irrelevant. And yeah, if there are so many different versions of the same person, I guess I choose to believe in what he said himself. in the words he left in interviews, when he talked about feeling vulnerable, when he admitted to being a deeply flawed man. To me, that speaks of someone who was profoundly self‑critical.
I’ve got a bunch of other thoughts, but I guess most of them fall into the realm of speculation. If you made it this far, thank you for reading and for letting me be part of your debate. Sorry to your anons if i kinda hijacked the topic 🫣 if you ever wanna share more with me, don’t hesitate to reach out.
Ahhh thank you so much!! This is very very enlightening!! No need to be hurry, good answers always take time 💙
When I was digging into Ayrton's life and career I do feel the difficulties cuz I don't really understand Portuguese. Reading is relatively easy cuz of the translating tools, but it's hard to listen to podcasts or to watch vid interviews of himself or people who know him in Brazil, even tho I know these are far more important first-hand sources. And there's lots of them I can't understand well.
What I've known abt him was mainly from international or to be exact English/French world. In my country I can say that there's almost no motstport history, F1 wasn't a very popular sport here, we have never had a F1 driver until recent years and obviously welcome to the strongest fortress of materialists and antitheists! (laughs) Years ago when I was in college, my friend and I met a girl reading the Bible out aloud alone in the corner, and my friend was shocked, even a bit afraid, lowered her voice and said to me, "is she crazy?" She didn't mean anything bad ofc, just a normal reaction to something completely unfamiliar. I have some Christian friends, they all are nice people but they don't talk their faith to outsiders like me unless I asked as well
So you can imagine why Ayrton's fervent expression of religion seems too much for my cultural context, and maybe also a bit too much for the West since he was very often criticized for that. Your point that a reminder of his own imperfections makes sense as well, even more fits in his cultural background, but it's also important how people outside LatAm interpreted his words and behaviors, the docu (on BBC) the Right to Win for example, Murray Walker as one of the most famous English commentators said that "he actually believed that he had a God-given right to win." I think it kinda represents how his way of showing his religious side was felt on an international level. Maybe he was just, as you said being humble and vulnerable before something greater, but F1 is after all an "European" sport, people who have a major say didn't really see it that way, which certainly stereotyped an extremely confident image of him, also defined how part of him was remembered by the general public, the most of the English speakers. The God-related myth was already there and Ayrton did know that. He became more cautious abt the topic later but sometimes still he couldn't help himself talking. So the question is an intensely religious man like Ayrton has also strategically utilised this kind of situation to get the upper hand over his rivals or not? There's some interesting stories from Patrick Faure and Prost
I'm thinking maybe, objectively, Ayrton benefited from this God-given stereotype as well, cuz his rivals like Prost or Berger felt that way therefore lost a bit on the phycological side. And in this context his initial subjective intention was maybe not so important anymore but how it works on others did. I think it manifests exactly the tension between be yourself and fit in, I know he was quite worried abt being misunderstood, but it's also not something he could decide.
Before this, I didn't really realize that I was in a filter bubble caused by linguistic hegemony and cultural barriers. So it's really nice to hear more voices from Portuguese community in Latin America.
When I was writing that post in the late night I have actually thought for a moment that it's a war between Ayrton's new social circle in Portugal where Braga is an important figure and his old family/friends in Brazil. But I didn't expect that things are like out of the frying pan and into the fire(a bit exaggerated to put it this way but I can't find a better description), which give me goosebumps that he was trying to built his own life, to be independent a little from his family yet his new friends want to take advantage of him even after his death.
If Betise wasn't lying this time, I got to take my hat off on this to Braga cuz it really is a heck of PR on the funeral and the book later, way beyond successful I would say, it now became the powerful mainstream narrative in the whole world that "the last girlfriend who was despiced by the family", "Ayrton was going to marry her", even Jo Ramirez said so, and so many ytb comments in Portuguese are rooting for their "love story", tho I'm very sure that's not the case after reading her book then watched the HBO series. She tried hard to make it like a fairy tale but it's not. And I did notice she sidesteps the real issue and all the controversies between them. There's doubts on the credibility of all her guests too. What do you think the role of AG herself in all this besides Braga's manipulation? And abt that tape, it's really weird whether the family wiretapped her phone or she was calling her ex tbh
Also, what Braga did even cast a shadow on the scene "world champions and fellow F1 drivers walked with him until the very end." The funny thing is that I have never doubted why none of his family members was one of the pallbearers, cuz in Chinese funeral traditions, direct family members are strictly forbidden from carrying the coffin and I subconsciously thought it was the same in Brazil, not that it was arranged on purpose. Now I see more why Piquet, a not friend, and Chico Serra, a friend, both said that too much politics on the wake and chose not to be there.
Still I'm very interested abt his family and Tchê's words on them.
He knew Ayrton when he was in karting, and Ayrton sent his first win helmet with a beautiful letter as a gift to him. I believe that means a lot to both. Yet Tchê wasn't close to his family, is he telling the truth or there's also some kind of conflict interests involved? And I see this often in ytb/ig comments that people call Viviane things like "witch"(Google translation) in Portuguese, what's that for? She seems quite nice...
I'm very impressed by your insights on deification. And another interesting cultural difference.
Here, we mostly believe that the true power lies within the people-not one man but every man. We don't put our faith in a hero, but in each other. Instead of seeking divinity in an idol, we look for the real strength in our collective humanity. That's why I vaule him as simply a da Silva among the da Silvas, not Senna, and love him more as Ayrton, a great yes, yet so ordinary. I resonate with his fallibilities and vulnerabilities that belong to each of us-which bring a god down to earth, turning him back into a mortal. But I understand why Senna means so much for your people and your country to this day, for we have been in your place and have paid with tears and blood. It's a very noble thing for one man to carry the weight of a nation, to be the spiritual anchor of a society, someone has to, with great power comes great responsibility, and in this context, to be the God-like man, to be the hope, is indeed far more important than being just a man, yet it must be heavy for him.
Again thanks for your reply and patience, it's really really helpful, I learned a lot. And speculations are absolutely fine! I think that's the most fascinating part actually-the uncertainty and blankness within history. Feel free to share them and no need to be hurry🙏🏻 it took me long enough too🤣 but a pleasure to have the discussions
Hey @stupidnicknamehere , there's nothing to be awkward, you're always welcome to jump in the conv and give different opinions! I hope you don't mind that I can't do this in comment cuz it's a reply way too long 🙏🏻
Guess opinions are quite divided cuz the different infos we know?
I know the order was originally arranged by the amounts of championships, but as far as I know, Braga wasn't behind this. The whole funeral was mostly organized by the government. And the protocol officers, they weren't necessarily know all the pallbearers(some of them are foreign guests) and their personal relationship with Senna. They thought by rank and titles would be a good idea since usually it would be appropriate in diplomatic contexts.
It's part of why I said politics were highly involved, and quite terrible that it can't be his own family to hold this. It was a state funeral, everything was in a hurry and everyone was in shock. I think it's more possible a bad coincidence rather than a deliberate arrangement?
Betise rearranged the order, and it's also her said in an interview that she thinks "Braga was the only one Ayrton told everything to".
(Tho I know she was considered a traitor by many back then cuz she married Head later. And she seems not that close to the family after Senna's death tho she could work for Senna in the first place cuz of Mr. Milton's recommendation.)
And I know Braga was a friend of Emmo at first, he helped Ayrton in Europe when he wasn't famous yet, and he's kinda father-like to him, not just because of age but also his experiences on business and lots of things. And Braga always kept a room just for Ayrton in his house in Portugal. That's why I think Ayrton respected Braga a lot and what Betise said on this matter is true.
My opinion just based on what I've known, but maybe you know more abt their relationship, and pls feel free to share them! I'm very interested.
Abt her book, I'm not even sure if it was just Braga himself who encouraged her to do so, or maybe Braga's wife played an important role in this? I know she's a good friend of AG and at that time writing might be a way for the girl to pull herself together. But ofc from another side maybe she was doing this for money.
The book itself, I don't think it's nicely written tbh but she published that at a very special moment. And I'm wondering what's your thoughts on the timing she chose.
(*add here, I should also be clear that both Betise and Galisteu lies a lot...conflicting narratives in different interviews from different times, it's very hard to know which words are true at times)
And thx for mentioning abt the charities, for sure it's an important part of the reason that his family demands a positive image. Like I said it's difficult to tell children who likes him otherwise, they might be too young to understand all the controversies.
Oh speaking of this, there's also one thing I'm curious abt cuz I don't know how charity works in Brazil but in my country, charities are often involved with some tax free policies so sometimes it's a just a different mode of business as well.
Abt deification, I think it's complicated but also simple, Gilles might be another good example.
Above all you need to be generally, deeply loved by people, then it's the sacrifice, his death, especially in Ayrton's case the way he died, he lived to drive, and he died driving in front of millions.
And the myth (Ayrton was already a myth when he was alive), and image/marketing which helps the myth growing. (even some luck cuz marketing isn't always a help...)
But essentially it's abt nostalgia, or to say "saudade" in Portuguese, based on the fact that people still love him, and we also miss the old ourselves/hope we were still in the good old days, watching how Senna flying on the track, tho there's thousands versions of him in everyone's heart and he's getting more and more perfect in people's memory. He was a real human being, but he is also an abstract concept/icon now, just like John Lennon.
And I'm with you on Ayrton was troubled by idolatry, but I don't really think that was for he was deifed, or there's some interviews that I didn't know abt? Cuz from the interviews I have watched, what he was often talking abt it's the kind of trouble that you would have when you are famous. He often said that he was hurt by exciting fans cuz they would like to touch him, crowded him inside, and he can't be on the streets with his girlfriend just like normal people, paparazzi/fans everywhere etc.
And when he was alive he was working with Globo and other presses which tend to deify him. And he was talking abt God on the media. I won't say many times, but it was on important occasions like when he was winning, and it's things like "God is behind me", "I saw Him", and his out of body experience. Why nobody else sees or have Him with him or up in the sky saw my shell driving in the race?
One of the basic precepts of Christianity that I know (as a pagan who just have some scholar interests), is that God loves all men equally. It's therefore no way to say Him favours anyone, especially oneself in a sporting contest. That would be like "I talked to God and God agreed with me". But in fact it's just Ayrton himself believes it that way, that he has the God given right to win.
A man’s faith should guide him in his daily life, but there's no place in sport for God-botherers. I think that's exactly why athletes would not emphasis his religious side sm now, tho back then the situation was a bit different. I think, people choose to compete in sports for any number of reasons, most of which are entirely selfish, especially in F1, they are all egoist. If you want to win, it can't be other way.
So, I definitely won't say that Ayrton was entirely responsible for his deification, but he has to be responsible partly. And I truly understand that helped him getting more stronger than other drivers on the mental side, and that's very important for improving his performance in the race as well.
I think sometimes he's not even deliberately doing so to be a myth, but just naturally. And I have to say that I mean absolutely no judging or blaming, cuz I might have done the same if I were him in that kind of environment.
Also, I know he often admitted that he has flaws, as you said that's true, even in the famous 88 championship interview with Leme he was saying that everyday he was trying to be a better man.
But he likes to do that or not, it's a very subjective thing and I'm just guessing, I can't speak for the anon before but myself that he might not like it sm. He admitted it cuz he's being honest, but generally, people don't really like to admit/show our weakness and shortages to everyone frankly.
Again just I feel it this way. I can't read Ayrton's mind or speak in his name.
In the end, I would be glad that if you'd like to share more infos you know or opinions you have, we don't have to be on the same page! But we might get some new understandings on all these by discussing! (And maybe use the ask box if you don't mind? It's more convenient for long replys
So, I actually finished the Spanish translation of the Chinese documentary about the rivalry between Senna and Prost.
It's a 2-hour documentary with a lot of interesting content about them.
It took quite a while, and I'm only now getting around to uploading it here. I've had trouble with a proper English translation because, well, I'm not fluent.
In addition to the Spanish file, I've uploaded an English version, but it's purely from Google Translate, so it will probably have some errors. If anyone would like to help me or just review the SRT file of the English version, I would be happy to accept suggestions.
Also, if you are interested in creating subtitles for other languages!
Okay, here's the Drive.
As always, content warning: the documentary includes uncensored footage of crashes and driver deaths. Proceed with caution.
The original Bilibili video is:
F1传奇|塞纳与普罗斯特：伯牙绝弦 by the original author, 村长托马斯
Original link: HERE
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Translated into English, the original title is "F1 Legends | Senna and Prost: Boya's Broken String".
The final part refers to an old legend about the value of true friendship. The musician Yu Boya was a master of the qin (an ancient Chinese zither). His friend, Zhong Ziqi, was the only one who could understand his feelings when listening to his music.
After Zhong's death, Boya felt he would never find a soulmate again. Devastated by grief, he broke the strings of his instrument and vowed never to play again. This gave rise to the famous Chinese idiom "to break the strings for a soulmate."
Here is an excerpt from the final part of one version of the legend:
"Before Ziqi's grave, Bo Ya once wrote a short poem to mourn the death of his great friend Zhong Ziqi: I remember last spring by the river, where I met you, my lord. Today I return to visit you, but my dear friend is nowhere to be found. I see only a pile of earth, which wounds my heart with sorrow. My heart is wounded, wounded, and wounded again; I cannot bear the tears that fall. The joy of arrival, the bitterness of departure, clouds of sadness rise on the riverbank. This melody ends, never to be played again; this three-legged yaoqin dies for you."
wow amazing work of you, just a tiny detail need to clarify that it's not a documentary, but things like a personal video essay/commentary on Senna and Prost, with some edited race retros, movie clips and pics (some of them are Al generated), and his main reference is that SvP book.
And making this kind of quick breakdown on some topics or books or movies is quite popular in China, but usually within 40 mins
Also I do love these discussions and stuff surrounding senna. I feel like i havent been able to sit and talk about stuff without getting into arguments with other fans or without someone glorifying someone else. So thank you for the safe place to do this discussions.
Ah think I've come to an age that can understand things from another side. I do like lots of drivers, but I can't call myself as a fan of anyone anymore, or to say that I'm everyone's fan cuz there's always something in someone that you can appreciate, guess Nels would be a good example of that 🤣 I can be reason with, I can be moved by passion, but preferences won't work.
I quite enjoy these serious talks as well and I really feel that the most important thing is to ask a good question, not its answer. So thx for sharing all your asks and opinions, anytime 💙
Agreed with the Senna family. I dont agree on a lot of the stuff the people who claimed to be close to him did. Not his girlfriends, not his family, not people who worked for him. They all portray him as this godlike figure. It bothers me a bit because I guess the family was so close and so controlling even during his lifetime - they dont want to see him admit to flaws. Heck I dont think he like admitting to his own flaws. You are right he is considered a hero but one in which people close to him look through with rose colored glasses.
Not only people around him, but also those who don't really know him but worship him like a religion, not even the real him, just a great image of him... quite crazy to think abt that actually, we have to live with this, he had to live with this when he was alive
And tbh some of his so-called "friends" got no credibility, knowing him it's one thing, but friends that he really trusted, he could really talk to and get understanded, maybe just two or three I guess, Braga for ep. There's also lots of politics involved in his wake
Theodore Racing team owner Teddy Yip with a young Ayrton Senna at the 1983 Macau Grand Prix. This was the first year that the event was run under Formula 3 regulations, and Ayrton was the winner.
(from the book Macau Grand Prix: The Road to Success by Philip Newsome (1998))
