Trash Take Tuesday: Religion Edition
Important Take: Roman and Greek Religion are not interchangeable, and Roman religiosity is not a corruption of a Greek âOriginalâ
âBut Romans took Greek myths and made them weird,â WRONG.
âRoman gods were the same as Greek ones, though!â NOPE! TRY AGAIN
âRomans stole Greek religionâ WHOA, SUPER DUPER NOPE!
These are some really common takes that absolutely donât hold water. I would like to point out some important things to note in regards to Greek/Roman Religion, and the ways they are perceived by popular internet spaces, versus the reality of both when they are closely examined.
1. The first take relies a lot on taking Ovid as a serious source. This is especially problematic from the standpoint of a religious study because Ovid was not writing a religious work when he wrote the Metamorphoses. Let me turn to Richard McKimâs Myth Against Philosophy
Ovid does not âbelieve inâ the myths of the Met. in any literal sense, of course. But in my view he suggests in Book 1 that, in probing their imaginative and psychological dimensions through poetry, he can capture the paradox and complexity of the world of human experience with far greater success than a philosopher can through reason.
This work, therefore, tells us nothing about wither Greek nor Roman religiousity or mytholgy, but rather Ovidâs imagination of humanity. His work examines dynamics of power, guilt, blame, and artâall of which are absolutely rich and interesting to read. None of which, however, constitute a religious text. We cannot read it as âOvidâs takes on the gods and his worship practices,â but rather âOvid using literary allegory to explore themes relevant to life.â So Iâd really like to throw out almost all Ovidian retellings as âRoman Mythology,â because frankly, itâs not mytholgy. Itâs literature, allegory, and exploration.
Other Roman writers who engage myth either a) are distinctly Roman in their takes on myth, or b) are not much different from other
2. Some* Roman & Greek gods absolutely share similarities, but they do not share everything, and they do not share worship. They are also not âstolen.â Firstly, the Romans did steal from the Greeks when they took over. However, this is after Rome had been a society for a number of years, practicing their religion all the while. Unless they only began worshipping their gods around 214-148 BCE (which would be ridiculous, given that we have references and material evidence from well before that), clearly there was not a malicious âstealingâ of Greek Gods.
What would make sense, is that Greeks influenced Etruscans, who then influenced much of Rome. Furthermore, Etruscans and Lucanians are fare more influential on Roman religion than are Greeks. Practices for funeral games, Gladiatorial Combat, blood sacrifice, and the worship of several gods all have roots in Lucanian and Etruscan practices. Greek influence on those parts of Italy likely remained and became a source for later Roman practice.
Furthermore, parallel development is possible. They were similar cultures in some ways, with patterns of interaction, commonalities, and, to a degree, similar needs. Both pantheons featuring a King, an Underworld, and gods for agriculture does not a âstolenâ religion make. It implies similar needs, possible interaction and some cross-polination between several cultures.
Some cults, like that of Bacchus, were later additions from Greek migrants. However, those are regarded by Livy as an exception, not the rule. The rule is a much more organic, often syncretic and polythetic process from which religious practice is formed.
Interestingly, Herodotus himself acknowledges that Greeks likely took many of their own figures from the Egyptians. Therefore, the idea of the Greeks as âOriginalâ and the Romans as diluted versions of it ignores the fact that Greeks owed many of their own religion to Egypt, and to the Pheonicians, and people in other parts of the Near East. Often, the erasure of such is a racist erasure of ancient cultures outside of Europe to proliterate the myth of the âGreek Miracle.â
So, in short: Romans did not âSteal the godsâ from the O.G.âs, and the Greeks likely had a similar process of aquiring religious practices via interaction with other places over time.
* Not all gods and mythological figures are similar. For example, Romansâ apotheosis of Romulus into the god Quirinus is a figure that has no Greek equivalent. Likewise, the admiration of the Greeks for Oedipus as a hero with a place in Hero Cultus has little Roman equivalent. They valued different things and the figures of admiration decidedly receive different treatments. There are also plenty of deities and heroes that exist in one paradigm and not the other. This should go without saying. Â
3. Holy Differing Religions, Batman, the practices of the Greeks and Romans are wildly different from one another.
Speaking of, tell me about the Greek Vestal Virgins, Iâll wait. How about Greek lares? Greek Lupercal? Â No? Where is the Roman Brauronia, then? Or Roman cult of Brimo? How about Roman Basileus Archons? Roman Hera Bounaia? Roman Panathenaia? Â Likely, you wonât find one. This is because the practice and worship of similar figures, beyond the basic ideas of sacrifice, reciprocity, etc, could not be more different. Each culture held different values, and different ways of approaching religion on practicality.
Even where concepts like a virginal hearth goddess were shared in common, the practices and local cult beliefs varied wildly. Levels of state involvement in a given cult, the amount of admiration a given god received (see: Romans adored Mars, who shared so little with the Greek Ares who they feared, that I hesitate to even equate them sometimes) was not held in common. Further reading of religious texts of both of these cultures can show a lot of that.
Even Homer and Virgil, who are arguably in the âsame canonâ receive and treat things very differently.
TL;DR Rome had many religious practices unique from Greece, Greece was not an âoriginalâ culture, and tumblr!mythology lacks nuance.
Richard McKim, Myth Against Philosophy
Meghan DiLuzio, A Place At The Altar: Priestesses in Republican Rome
Jennifer Larson, Understanding Greek Religion
Emily Kearns, Greek Religion: A Sourcebook
Deborah Lyons, The Scandal of Womenâs Ritual
John A North & Mary Bearrd, Religions of Rome: A Sourcebook
Horace, Carmen Saeculare
Homer, Iliad
Virgil, Aeneid
Livy, Early Histories of Rome
Sophocles, Oedipus at Colonus
Herodotus, Histories (especially those on Egypt)
Paul Robertson, Toward an Understanding of Philoâs and Ciceroâs Treatment of Sacrifice
Tagging @salinatrixx for her Trash Takes Tuesday Series she invited me to as well as @cicerhoe and @catilinas for their contributions and discussion
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