wip in between comms to support the jock Neil and greaser goth Andrew agenda

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@starburst-prince
wip in between comms to support the jock Neil and greaser goth Andrew agenda
Princes by Katie S
King of Vere Hydration
Its been years and im a completely different person now but i think it would be nice to reread capri :)
Livejournal Chapter Commentaries
I was recently reminded of the old “dvd commentaries” pacat had done on her livejournal about some of the chapters in the first two books that sadly got deleted when she purged the lj before the new published versions came out.
They used to be free for everyone so I thought it would be nice for the people who got into the series after to get the chance to read them since they show some interesting insight about her writing process and some character information. Also Pacat dragging her own characters and story lol
Just so you know, these are based on the old version of the books so some names are different: Vere is Rabat and Jokaste is Margaret.
Enjoy!
One more!
everyone’s modern capri aus: laurent is an elegant parisian who likes fine wine
me: laurent is a filthy cégep grad who crushes miller’s light and plays for the habs
Nikandros:
Damen:
Dear valued vendors, Please find attached herewith the scanned copies of:
1) gay-panic.jpg Laurent came across his gay awakening visiting Prince Damianos in the courtyard
2) bi-panic.jpg Prince Damianos comes back 6 years later and mistakes all-grown-up Prince Laurent for a beautiful local horse girl. Auguste’s ready to throw hands.
Regards, Nia Associate Engineer
#a six year age difference is devastating when youre 13 and the most agonizingly awkward youll ever be in your life #but when youre 20 and indestructible #facing a 26 year old who is knee deep in bisexual crisis #you have the power of a god#… #….. i know why there were both adults when they met in the books #but every now and then #i get so deeply sad #at all the lost potential of these two kingdoms at peace (via @amelior8or )
I love these tags bc I originally drew teen Laurent scurrying away from Damen with a mouthful of sweetmeats that he stole from the kitchen, cheeks puffing like a chipmunk
Horse: …? 🐴 Laurent, externally: 😐 Laurent, INTERNALLY: 🥰🤗🥺
Hey, so on the 19th of may the government of Hungary passed article 33, which ends the legal recognition of trans people, so we can't change our name or gender marker on our IDs and it's almost impossible to start medicly transitioning
So if you have minute please sign this petition and share it, thank you
The Hungarian Parliament voted in favour of a bill that outlaws legal gender recognition for trans and intersex people in the country.
Not pictured: King Laurent balancing on his royal tippy toes. …on top of King Damianos’s toes.
Glad you're back! One of my favorite artists for sure : )
Everyone: Fear about how the cast of a Capri series would look
Me: fear all the Veretians just having posh British accents
Damen: You look beautiful today, Laurent.
Laurent: Thank you-
Damen: Ha! April Fools!
Damen: You look beautiful everyday
Can you give a brief summary of your issues with KR? I don’t belong to the Discord. I thought KR was by far the weakest book of the trilogy, but that seems to be an unpopular POV.
You should get on discord! Last week @josselinkohl and I had a discussion about economy and monetary policy, of all things, and it was fabulous.
To be honest I feel I’ve heard quite a few people say they had some kind of issue with Kings Rising, though I agree that the majority of currently active fandom liked it. To me, it’s a question of priorities and preferences: the things that were done well (the romance, a couple funny moments) don’t outweigh the weaknesses. But there’s plenty of people who didn’t entirely like it, but think the good makes up for the parts that didn’t work.
Keep reading
My disappointment with Kings Rising was more about how I had been told (by Damen, who I guess I should not have trusted) for two books that both The Regent and Laurent were amazing at plots and tricks and planned everything out weeks and years in advance.
So I expected plots and tricks in Kings Rising that astounded me with their intricacy and complexity, so that I was like “Wow, I never would have thought of that, but it makes total sense!” I wanted all of the pieces to come together with hints strewn throughout the first few books (more hints than Nicaise in a nightgown) so that I saw the plots that Damen had been telling me about.
Instead, I saw a lot of short-sighted, straightforward, emotional, but confusing behavior. Why is Laurent so rude to Damen at the start of Kings Rising when he so desperately needs Damen’s help? What is Laurent’s plan at the start of Kings Rising? What is it in the middle? I’m not sure I get his plan at any point in that book, before the plan is “rescue the baby” and then I’m clear that his plan is to rescue the baby but his method is basically suicide so it’s still hard to get on board.
Similarly with The Regent. What’s his plan? Take over Akielos, apparently, but why does he go to Akielos to hang out in the capital with the current ruler? That’s such a dumb plan I can’t reconcile it with other things. Like, if he’s that dumb, why has Laurent been living under his thumb for the last three or so years?
Big picture, the only reason that The Regent wouldn’t have killed Laurent off sooner is either he’s a total sadist and likes watching Laurent suffer and is toying with him (possible and maybe hinted, though we don’t see that explicitly) or because Laurent has a stronger defense than we ever see–more strength in his guard, more of the court in his camp, etc, but that is never developed in the plot.
The other parts of plot that I expected to make sense in some elaborate way were around Kastor and Jokaste. Kastor seems to have been basically ignorant? And Jokaste is not the schemer Damen thought she was either, since we hardly see any of her plots or ideas in the third book either. Really the most elaborate “plan” of the book is dressing up in disguise as merchants to go in a wagon.
All that said, I would have struggled significantly with all of this plot and worldbuilding also. Hahahahah. It’s not my strength as a writer either. And I thought for several years between Book 2 and Book 3 about how all of these threads would play out and I was marveling, like, “Wow, I truly don’t know how Pacat is going to do it. It seems impossible.” Well, apparently it may have been impossible. Who knows.
Anyway, I did very much enjoy many things about Kings Rising:
All of the details we get about Nikandros and Akielos in general
Makedon, hahahahaha
The swordfight!
Laurent winning the okton and being drunk
But the plot disappointed me.
Someday I will write the essay about my take on King’s Rising, but although it contains some of my favorite scenes in the series, it left me profoundly unsatisfied because:
I finished Prince’s Gambit rooting so hard for Damen and Laurent to get and stay together in the end.
I finished King’s Rising feeling like (while it was the best possible ending Laurent could have gotten) it would have been a better and stronger ending to Damen’s storyline and character arc if he *had* managed to convince himself that his response to Laurent was actually a physical and psychological reaction that could be dismissed and it ended with him breaking himself away from the relationship to be a King on his own terms - Laurent’s friend and ally, but no more.
I hated feeling like that, and I could forgive a lot in terms of world building and plot holes if I felt like the relationship resolved in an emotionally satisfying way.
(Also, I have this Grand Theory that - while not all of them - most of the more egregious flaws actually result from the narrative’s attempt to get Laurent out of the atonement and emotional labor he would have had to do to make the relationship authentically satisfying on both sides by replacing it with One Moment Of Supreme Self-Sacrifice and that a big part of the reason this book in particular is so full of issues is that after a certain point everything in it, from the world-building to the actions and motives of other characters, is built towards providing Laurent the opportunity to do that instead of telling an interesting and satisfying story that ties up the plot threads of the previous two books.)
All of this is fascinating, and has me remember what it was like to read King’s Rising back in 2016. My issues with KR at the time I was reading it were far more basic than any of this: the second half of the book felt irrelevant. I waited for months for the release of KR, and was waiting on tenterhooks to find out: Will Laurent forgive Damen? When will he find out who Damen is? Where will this relationship go?
All of those important emotional beats are resolved in the first half of the book. So I put it down for weeks, because what I had been waiting so long for was… finished. Yes, there was “rescue the baby,” yes they still had to retake their countries, but all of that felt secondary to the characters’ emotional arcs.
Yes, this! ^^^^
This actually ties into “the points I will eventually make if I ever write that essay,” so I’m gonna sketch out the broad points:
The second half of King’s Rising is both completely irrelevant and completely necessary, to the structure of the series as it exists.
It is completely irrelevant because almost no further character growth or emotional development happens in it, but completely necessary to exist *exactly as it does* if you are trying to avoid the rest of the emotional development that needs to happen to get your characters to a satisfying conclusion.
I agree 100% that some of the questions that are most vital - “Will Laurent forgive Damen? When will he find out who Damen is? Where will this relationship go?” - are answered by the midpoint, but I had other questions too at the end of Prince’s Gambit: Will Damen forgive Laurent? How will he reconcile being in love with the man who mistreated him as a slave? How will he deal with being openly in a relationship with the master who owned him in front of the men he has to lead, especially given Akielos’s cultural ideas about dominance and status?
The answer King’s Rising gives us is that Damen doesn’t have to forgive Laurent because he already did that back in PG, and I know not everyone interprets it this way, but I don’t think that’s true. In my reading, what happens in PG is that Damen spends the bulk of the book trying to fight being increasingly drawn to Laurent by reminding himself of how angry he is about what Laurent did to him, but is ultimately unable to do so - and at some point after that, he lets his anger drop because he is, as Nikandros will point out in KR, too straightforward a person to hold two conflicting and strong emotions about a person at the same time, and having failed to stop himself from falling in love with Laurent, he cannot continue being angry at him, regardless of what Laurent has done. That’s not the same thing as forgiveness, and to get a happily ever after that feels right, there needed to be a moment where Damen acknowledges everything that happened to him and looks the fact that Laurent is the one who did that to him in the face and chooses to forgive him for it, in the same way that Laurent eventually accepts that Damianos and his beloved slave are the same person and chooses to forgive him for killing Auguste. That should have happened in KR, but it didn’t.
Also, I’ve read some fan meta arguing that Damen doesn’t have to reconcile Laurent-the-master-who-hurt-him with Laurent-the-man-he-loves because he wasn’t really traumatized by what happened to him in Arles, and I respect that interpretation, but that’s not how it reads to me. To me, Damen reads less as someone genuinely not traumatized by what he has endured, but as someone experiencing a delayed trauma response. It happens all throughout the first book, but it’s most strongly displayed in the scene with Ancel. While you’re reading that scene, while it’s extremely kinky, it’s also clear that Damen experiences it as massively humiliating and demeaning that the way he wants his own body to react is being overwritten by someone else’s words, made worse by the fact that it’s in public and with someone he actively hates, and he ends that scene infuriated and wanting revenge (also, to assert himself sexually over Laurent in order to regain dominance). Not two days later, he’s comfortably joking with Laurent about Ancel’s social climbing. While I think the f-ed up ideas of consent under which he’s been raised that determine his interpretation of what happened is a factor, I also think it speaks to how deeply he’s pushing everything down in order to continue functioning and surviving in the permanent emergency he’s in as Laurent’s slave. The ring, the whipping, and other various indignities and injuries get the same response: it’s awful while it’s happening, and stops really mattering as soon as it stops. Damen is repressing everything with the same sense of unreality he felt in the ring when he realized Govart was close to winning in order to keep going. I haven’t watched Killing Eve, but it’s like that moment I’ve seen gif’d where Sandra Oh’s character says that she’s fine for now, but in about two years she’s going to have a breakdown about all this. I don’t think he’d necessarily have what you would call a breakdown, but I do think that he’s primarily dealing with things by putting off dealing with them in CP, and there are moments throughout PG and KR (like the scene where he doesn’t know how to feel about taking the cuffs off, or the one where he automatically stands as a slave to fetch Laurent iron tea and then is confused and horrified by what he’s done) that imply that that’s the state he’s still in. The state of emotional safety he’s in in the second half of KR, when he no longer has the threat of Laurent finding out who he is hanging over him, when Laurent has forgiven him and promised to be on this side, is the perfect time for that delayed trauma response (whatever it is and however mild it might be) to happen, and for the characters to deal with it before they get their happy ending. Instead, the other shoe never drops.* The closest they get to addressing this is that scene in Summer Palace where Damen admits he’s still not OK about Laurent having “made [him] kneel” and Laurent tries to equalize things between them by serving him in the bath the way he tried to make Damen serve him in the first two books - which is not a problem in itself, but comes as a “too little, too late.”
But if you interpret the latter half of a book as a juggling act to keep that other shoe in the air, everything snaps into place like a puzzle piece and starts making *perfect* sense.
Jokaste’s abrupt heel-face turn is both too extreme and too little explored to feel genuine, as is her flattening into basically fem!Laurent, but if the narrative’s goal is to excuse Laurent’s mistreatment of Damen without needing a moment of forgiveness, then by reinterpreting Jokaste as a feminine mirror of Laurent and redeeming her, then by the transitive property of symbolism, you’ve made strides towards that goal without Laurent having to do anything
The shell game with the baby makes no sense and ultimately leads nowhere, but if you want to shunt the characters into a good place immediately after Laurent’s forgiveness without having to do any of the work to get them there organically, then you need an excuse to get them on an undercover adventure right away. Undercover work has always been a honeymoon period for them, even in the first book when they suddenly started weirdly getting along once Laurent asked Damen to play along in his scheme to help the other slaves, and being in disguise and on a quest just jumps them into a better relationship without them having to get there
The worldbuilding at the Kingsmeet, a sacred place devoted to the old kings used for negotiations because even kings can’t draw arms there, but actually a place where the true king of Akielos has no power but any “king,” even a pretender to a foreign throne, can just override the sacred rules, again makes no sense and is anti-climactic - but if you want to get Laurent and Damen away from CP without Laurent offering any real apology or atonement, arranging a situation where he can literally give his life for Damen functions better than anything else in lieu of that
Damen’s speech at the trial is embarrassing and cringey and dumb, but again, if you’re trying to avoid needing a forgiveness storyline, having Damen make a speech about how he doesn’t have to forgive Laurent because he was wrong to be angry or think ill of him in the first place, he just didn’t know him well enough - then that wraps up that effort pretty well
King’s Rising ultimately falls apart because everything is designed to get the characters to a happy ending without having them do the other half of what they need to do to earn their happy ending, and it doesn’t have time for politics or secondary characters’ motives or anything else that distracts from the primal avoidance.
i saw this on twitter and i’m so curious?? please tell me
The good parts of the Harry Potter series are only good by accident and every time Rowling deliberately tries to do something good she just ruins what she inadvertently made
Abby: you have ptsd
Andrew: hell yeah I have ptsd: Proficient Talent for Sucking Dick lmao
Abby: maybe we can talk about your use of humor as an unhealthy coping mechanism for the trauma you’ve experienced
Andrew: Abby, I don’t think you understand how clever that joke was.
What if Andrew went to sleep respectably big-spooning Neil, but wakes up before dawn to find he has Neil flat on his back, Neil’s shirt rucked up, Andrew’s arms wrapped tight around Neil’s waist, and snuggling into his scarred tummy like a child with a stuffed toy?
What if in that bleary, tense moment before he fully realizes what he’s doing and jerks away, Neil sifts a hand into his hair and mumbles “stay”, so he relaxes after a minute and plants his face back where it was?
What if when they wake up together a few hours later, he has impressions of Neil’s scars on his cheek like lines from a rumpled pillowcase, and Neil’s smile at having Andrew so close is vulnerable and soft and open and makes Andrew’s heart clench?
What if he stopped wearing armbands to bed a long time ago, and this is what makes Neil comfortable enough to stop wearing a shirt to bed too?