You can tell, in retrospect, that Jensen really didn’t like this finale. He’s great at PR and talking around things he doesn’t like, but thinking back on it you could tell. (I don’t really know what to do with the fact that Jared loved it???)
He knew—and Misha knew—how disappointing huge swaths of the fan base would find it. They know what Dean and Cas, and Destiel, mean to people. And so they treated 15x18 like the real finale, both crying on set, admittedly losing the distinction between themselves and their characters. Jensen had someone film them filming so he could watch it later.
They knew. And I’m grateful to them both and so sorry that not only their talents, but their incredible kindness and compassion wasn’t recognized by TPTB or reflected in how the show went. They gave us the best they could and I love them for it.
Please let me know if I made any errors in transcription.
Twitter version
Family Don’t End with Blood Transcription
Winchester Mythology Transcription
Dabb: Ultimately, we came up with something that we're all very proud of
Singer: You never know what the audience is going to like so we really tried to say "what would make us happy? Would we be satisfied with where we've taken them?"
The Carry On song was a guideline.
Singer: The myth of what these brothers were throughout 15 years... We didn't shy away from fatalism, but we wanted to be able to have it be kinda uplifting as well.
Dabb: If you're going to do something that feels like a complete arc, you have to kinda go back to the beginning of it (clips of them hunting vamps from s1 & 15.20) When it comes to Sam & Dean- it's all about getting back to, in some ways, these two guys on the road in this car.
Dabb: They've been doing this job for 15 years now. They've fought everyone from demons to vampires to God himself, but at the end of the day, they're still working guys, out there on the road & taking cases. We've tried to never lose sight of that.
Dabb: There are times when we've been wrapped up in our own mythology a little bit. We've always tried to get back to the basics, which are: these two guys, saving people, hunting things.
Eugenie: I think we sort of knew generally what the ending would involve.
Eugenie: We might not have known the mechanics, but we sort of knew there would be a victorious, glorious sacrificial ending bc I think sacrifice is a big theme in the series.
For every great thing you do, a cost must be paid.
Singer: Andrew & I talked about it. We were in agreement pretty quickly... talked to the rest of the writing staff & let them know what we wanted to do and we were open to suggestions.
And then we pretty much pitched it to Jared and Jensen.
Jensen talks about flying to LA.
Jensen: So before we ever even started 15, we knew how the last portion of the story was going to go.
We didn't know how we were going to get there, but we kinda knew the final- the finish line- we knew what... what that was going to look like.
Jared: I don't think there's ever been a season of SPN in 15 years where the way the writers thought the show would play out for that season- ended up being the way it played out
And so we were aware of that. They told us here's what we're thinking, here's what happens to Castiel
Jared: In the finale, Dean dies & Sam lives on. And then we think they're going to meet up in heaven.
I remember Jensen... just because I know him so well- he seemed to bristle a little bit.
Jensen: It was hard to hear then & it was hard to read now. Not because I didn't like it, not because I wished it had gone differently... I'm not adverse to it.
I think it's a great ending. I'm proud to film it.
Singer: And we just aimed for that, you know, throughout the season. We knew where we were going.
Jensen: Reading it & knowing that... there's just a weight that is so much larger reading these scripts than I've ever experienced before.
There's an emotional weight that these scripts are going to carry & these episodes are going to have that I don't think we've ever seen before.
Brad: [J2] were so young when all of this started. They brought to it such conviction & such commitment to the effort.
That's one of the things that kept the show going for so many years... a show that was designed for very young guys, footloose & fancy free, & on the road…
Brad: To see these guys grow up b4 your eyes into- men, not boys any longer- was amazing.
BABY Jared: Though the story does involve Sam & Dean chasing supernatural things, it really is a story about two brothers that love each other & ultimately will do anything for each other.
Jensen: There's really one person that gets it on the level that I get it, and that's Jared.
Jared: I've never spent as much time with another human being as I have with Jensen Ackles. He will be my friend and brother forever. And I know that.
BABY Jensen: There's a lot of dynamics between the two brothers, there's a lot of history between them, there's a lot of banter between them... it's good stuff S15
Jensen: We had a partner in crime & we leaned on each other for, you know, for times when it was tough.
Jensen: But we also won together. We got to share the experience of success & the experience of getting picked up for another season.
Watching these two characters go through what they're going through, when we're working 14 hours & it's 2-3 o’clock on a Sat morning and we're just now finishing filming out in the rain and mud and we gotta race to the airport to get on a plane because we've got a photoshoot in LA & we've gotta do on camera interviews and we gotta promote the show that we love so much that we were just in the mud & the rain filming hours before we're exhausted and it's like there's only one person that gets that right now. That gets how I feel and that's this guy standing next to me. That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool to have somebody like that.
Brad: We knew it was going to be impossible to tie up every aspect of all of the cans of worms that we opened up.
We did want to bring a proper ending to the guys, the guy's relationship.
Brad: Then of course we had this huge corner we painted ourselves into with the most powerful thing in the universe being the big bad of the season. We try and find a proper send off for Jack & for Cas. What to do w/ the boys & is that a together farewell or an individual?
It was just... lots of moving parts.
Dabb: I give a lot of credit to Bobo who really was the one who started banging the drum early & often to ending the mythology in 19 and end the characters in 20.
Brad: You're battling God & battling God & you have this epic situation going on through the first 3/4 of the show & then what? You send off Dean in act 4? That just felt wrong. Eugenie: We had this obligation, it was really mandatory, that we tie up the mythic narrative and leave the final episode for the emotional resolution.
I [was] more on the side of not wanting to best God. To have God change to be more like his creations. So there were philosophical arguments, but we always knew God's resolution was going to be a big ticket item.
Jensen: We'd started day 1 of the 2nd to last episode, 19. We were 1 day down on that episode & we were just about to start our 2nd day & we got the call that morning that we were not going to be coming in that day.
Jensen: So we figured ok, we'll figure out protocol, figure out what we need to do, & we'll just regroup, come back on Monday. As that day progressed, it was like- this looks like more of an apocalypse that is ascending upon us than just a bad cold.
They pulled the plug & they said everybody go home.
Singer: Fortunately, we got assurance from both the studio & the network that one way or another we were gonna finish the series. That was comforting to us, but we didn't know when we were going to go back.
Eugenie: We didn't know what we were going back to... if this was the last time we would ever see the set. There was no plan. It was just get out of dodge.
Dabb: When it first happened, we thought it would be a couple of weeks, maybe a month.
I had conversations w/WB where they expected everyone to be back shooting in June & then things got worse & pushed & pushed.
Eugenie: Slowly as we settled into that 4 or 5 month period, discussions were going on w/the studio, & the networks, & the actors. We knew there would be restrictions on what we were allowed to shoot, but finally, the mechanics were figured out.
Singer: So they were ready to go pretty quickly, shooting in Van, where covid wasn't quite as virulent as it was [in LA].
Dabb: We were one of the first shows, one of the first WB shows to start back up. So in a way, we were kinda a guinea pig. But, in being that, I think everyone took it really seriously. We had 0 positive tests. Crew members weren't going out on the weekends.
They were like look, if I get sick, it hurts the whole show. That speaks to the family culture up there, where we've had so much of our crew for so long. Where J2 & Singer provide such great leadership.
Singer: When I was in prep for 20, I was basically in the office but couldn't go to the set. It was very odd for me not to be able to go to the set while I was in prep.
Everybody just hung in there & did what they were supposed to do.
Brad: Then we were faced with the dilemma of having to rewrite a lot of the stuff bc of the pandemic bc of the limitations that we knew were going to come on the production.
Jensen: We were gearing up for, not only the end of that season, but the end of the series. There was a lot of big, big things written-packed- into those last two scripts.
Jared: At first, it was supposed to be a lot of our old cast from prior seasons in a Roadhouse with Kansas.
Everybody had already agreed. Kansas was going to be in Van. We were going to have dad there & mom there. Just probably 20 or 30 different actors & actresses who had been a part of the SPN's canon over the last 15 & a half years.
Jensen: It was scheduled to be the last day that we were going to film, so it was almost like rolling right into a nice wrap party on camera.
Brad: The idea of flying a boatload of ppl up there to quarantine for 2 weeks so they could shoot for a day was making less & less sense.
Eugenie: How do we make this work? And while you're doing that, you also don't want to sacrifice the heart and soul of the project.
So we came up with a reduced, much more intimate ending. It has been replaced by something equally magical & rewarding.
Singer: I felt an enormous responsibility in directing the finale of a show that's been on for 15 years. Andrew, when he saw the cut, he said some really nice things to me as to, you know, the way I handled the material.
Jensen: The scenes that were filmed on our last day on the sound stages were filled with the most emotion of the final episode.
Singer: One of the really hard things was we're on another stage that wasn't the MoL stage & they started wrecking the MoL sets
They'd been working on this set and been apart of this- this family for just as long if not longer than the set's been around.
I was like "it's really sad seeing this get taken down" and the other guy said, "I'm trying to hold back tears while I'm swinging this hammer."
Jared: As we start saying goodbye to characters, to locations, like it just seems like every day you would wake up and there would be some reason to cry.
Misha: This is a show ultimately about love, & empathy, & caring, & I think that Castiel embodies that.
Misha: Half the crew was crying. It was really such a sweet, supporting environment to be in for the demise of a character that, of course, for me is really important.
But it was so lovely to see that, you know, the folks that I'm- I'm working with were also there for Cas at that moment.
Alex: To get to work with these caliber people & see your friends every day is really special & is not something that often happens in this business for this long. It's been definitely a topsy turvy last couple weeks here with us and the crew.
Jared: Friday of the final full week was the big scene in the barn with the vampires where Dean suffers his fate. They did the first two days with the entire stunt team & the young boy actors.
And then they cut it for Thursday night and they're like, okay, Friday, tomorrow, we’re starting the dialogue. Dean, you're on the post. Sam, you just cut off the last vampire's head.
That was the scene- that was where Supernatural was really encapsulated.
Jensen: And then the next week we kind of had this- on the road encore get together filmmaking scenario that felt more like we made it & it was more pats on the back as opposed to tearful goodbyes.
Dabb: In a weird way you can look at the 15 seasons is like Sam & Dean's emotional evolution. You know instead of therapy, they kill vampires, but other than that it's kind of the same & brings them both to a very good place. And a place where they can, as the song says, you know, lay their weary head to rest.
This felt like the most honest & emotionally fulfilling episode for these characters to us.
Jared: I got thinking about how Supernatural started & how the majority of times how I thought it should end. It started with Sam & Dean Winchester. I think it's proper that it ended with Sam & Dean Winchester together again.
Jensen: When the cameras stop rolling & Bob yelled, “Cut!” and Bob yelled, “That’s a series wrap on Supernatural.” There was- a there was a loud cheer that echoed through that canyon we were filming in. I will- I will happily say that there were hugs that happened and that needed to happen. Those are people that I spent not just years with, but so much time with- it's like brothers in arms and so to put it to bed the way that we did felt really good and then felt good to hug some people, I'll tell you that much.
Singer: I thanked everyone, but I wanted to really thank people who had been with us from the beginning and as I looked around, there were so many people who had been there from the beginning.
We really were a family. I always say about this show is one of the reasons that it was a success and is that it was not only about the Winchester family, but it was about the Supernatural family.
Jared: So now that's all said and done, I guess I can look back at it and just be proud that I helped this show carry on and I'm really proud of the blood, sweat, and tears that I put in, and I feel like- I feel like that sacrifice was also maybe one of the things I learned from Sam, you know? Sam had to sacrifice a lot. So, I'm honored and flattered and grateful that I got to be a part of that journey.
Dabb: You're never going to have another show like this. You're never gonna have another experience like this. For a lot of different reasons, from how long it ran, from the family that the show became, from the amazing fans that we have. [Footage of us] From the emotional investment people can put in over 15 years of their lives.
Some started watching this when they were in high school, when they were 15, they're 30 now, they might have kids. That's their- that's like half their life. They've been with this show. You're not gonna have that again. Shows just aren’t gonna run this long, especially genre shows, but I don't know that I'm ever gonna do anything else in my career that I'm gonna be more proud of than having been involved in this show.
Jared: The things that stick out are just how important it is to keep putting one foot in front of the other. And keep on working and wake up every day and treat it like it could be your last and- and if you make it out the other side, you'll be happy and proud of what you did.
Jensen: The crew had packed up, they had cleared the bridge, and they were all starting to, you know, load their trucks and get moving. And Jared and I just kind of hung back, and we just took a moment. I looked at him and I said, “I’m proud of us, man. I'm proud of what we've done.”
We know that that's the collective we, that is everyone that is involved, that is- you know from the top down. You know, for our portion, for what we contributed to this monster of the show, he and I reflected on that, and still able to see and smell the roses.
Ughjhhhhhh I know actor opinions don't actually mean much, but I just love Misha so much, and I know he loves Cas, so I just WISH he was on board with the whole "Cas was supposed to hear/accept unconditional love and then choose to become human" idea. It's so much more narratively satisfying! Maybe he's just trying to come to terms with what actually happened? Idk. Misha's so smart, but every time he says he always wanted Castiel's endgame to be him sacrificing himself, I want to eat my lamp.
The thing is... he didn’t always want that to be Cas’s ending...
There was a period where he was cautiously optimistic that Cas’s ending would be human (or at least that he would have a “chose to be human” arc whether that remained until endgame or not, since this was back before the series end was announced). He only really started talking about this “permanent sacrifice” sort of ending after (I believe) he knew that was planned to be Cas’s ending, and he was coming to terms with that himself and adjusting his view of the character so he could actually play what he knew was being written.
Big difference.
And now, in the aftermath, that’s all he has to talk about, because that’s what was written and what played out on screen.
So... while I’d personally love to sit him down and explain to him why Cas deserved so so much better than what he got, and why, I don’t know that it would change how Misha has to talk about Cas in public, you know? Which is yet another reason I have never put much stock in what actors say about their characters. But I don’t think he’s unaware of this, either, even while I don’t know that he fully understands the agony and horror of Cas’s fate and how we viewed it.
Congrats on the 1010 followers!! Don't know if you talked about it before but who are your favourite pairings actor wise/ who would you like to see more of?
Okay, so! Thank you to begin with because 1010 is such a wild number to me, lol.
And then we get into my ‘relationship’ with actors. Which to say... none. I have none. I don’t think that actors should have to pair off so hard and I, honestly, wish more of them wouldn’t pair off because I think that what we keep seeing in actors who don’t pair off is how good they do with different people.
I will answer that I would very much like to see the actors from Tossara play another couple. I love them very much and think they were very good together and would do fantastically in a longer, softer show. I just also really like their height difference and it’s so extreme that I’d like to see them more.
Actors I’d just like to see do more BL? Anson Chen. Anson Chen, Anson Chen, Anson Chen. Anson Chen looks like he walked straight off the page of a manga from the 90s. I would like him to play in many more BL shows.
Uh. Mii2 are also fantastic, though, again... I am not invested in them acting together. I’m mostly just invested in... more BL. And, preferably, more soft BL. Which they do well.
So, basically, I have very little actor engagement/fandom, tbh. I fall in love with characters and fictional pairings, not real people. They’re real people!
Uh. Yeah, I don’t get invested in actors. They’re all going to move on from BL and that’s okay!
I can't stop laughing at the thought of Jensen reading the "Cass pulls Dean close," and just panicking. Like what in the Brokeback Mountain
I mean I know you’re joking, but I highly doubt panic was his first reaction. I don’t know the man, so I can’t speak to what he’s thinking, but really? Dude’s been pulling Cas close for years, any opportunity he gets. Are you forgetting that Spn has already done their version of Brokeback (Brokebacknatural, I believe it was dubbed, by fans and cast alike) where Dean did pull Cas close and part of Jensen’s excessive touchy feeliness was cut out?
How about the episode he himself directed where Dean chooses to stroke Cas’ thigh, cup his face and stare soulfully into his eyes. I highly doubt any of that was scripted, so I hope he didn’t panic when he directed himself to do that.
Look I know Jensen’s said some not great stuff in the past, I have my opinions/theories on that (that’s for a different post) but whenever he’s been asked about Dean and Cas’ relationship in a serious and (from his perspective) non confrontational way, he’s always said pretty much the same thing:
Dean and Cas have a very important unique relationship, they count on each other and there’s a lot going on there but Dean has no idea about how important he is to Cas (and this next part I’m quoting about as accurately as I can remember) because Cas isn’t human, and any relationship they have would be a supernatural relationship not giving credence to humanistic feelings and emotions.
Jackles may not have labelled it or called/considered it something different in his head, but he never had a problem playing up that relationship and how intensely Dean felt about Cas.
Look the reason there is even a romantic element to the relationship between Dean and Cas is because of the choices Jensen and Misha made. I mean you can say it started because they had good chemistry, but it was because of how Misha chose to play Cas relating to Dean and how Jensen reacted to Cas and and how Cas perceived him. All of that added depth and more dimensions to their relationship pretty much from the beginning. That’s what the viewers saw, and that’s also what the writers saw and realised there was more to explore there.
And once again, not to assume I know anything about what goes in Jackles head, but it seems to me once they decided to explicitly tackle the romantic feelings between Dean and Cas, he was was very enthusiastic about the whole thing. From what he’s said since then, it seems he truly realised how monumental that scene was, not to mention how proud he was of the whole thing. I mean the guy asked someone to film it for him so he could have the full uncut version, and seemed disappointed that in the final cut they removed a lot of his reaction and what he played into it. None of that strikes me as the actions of a man who would panic at the “Cas pulls Dean close” stage direction.
I know you were most likely just making a joke and didn’t want/expect a wall of text about Jackles acting choices in response, but I’ve been watching the dude play Dean as someone who’s perpetually on the verge of crashing right into Cas whenever they’re in any kind of close proximity with each other for years now, and I’ll be damned if I don’t acknowledge that.
how do you think misha and Jensen /really/ feel about destiel
I think Misha is well aware of how much it means to us and fully supports it. I think he also knows how dangerous it is as a topic and that whilst I think he would love to talk about it honestly, he instead makes jokes and diverts the topic to avoid people getting upset. I think he would be 100% for it if it does in fact become explicit in the text at any point.
Jensen is more of a tricky one to gauge. I think for a long time he didn’t understand it and equated it with W*ncest as something that grossed him out that he didn’t wanna talk about. I think that he has always been well aware of how it comes across in the show though and is supportive of Dean and Cas having an intense bond even if at first the “gay thing” was only ever a joke to him. I think that in later years he has actually discussed it with people and misha and understands its importance now and I think he is also supportive of it, though he also is well aware of how much of an abrasive topic it is and therefore will also make jokes - though his jokes don’t always hit the same way Misha’s do. Recent examples like last years Jibcon was Jensen attempting to be supportive via jokes, and the more recent con where he basically admitted that Dean was “into” Cas proves that he is both aware of it, and supports the reading.
Jared is also totally aware of it, probably supportive but finds it funny, and constantly takes the piss because of it (like a good shipper friend should).
These are my opinions of course, but based on observations in the past few years and based on the shift in tone of the show over the same course of time, I 100% believe that Destiel is seen as a serious romantic pairing bts on set with majority cast and writer support.
n.b. I linked the YouTube channels of outlets with incomplete sets and/or video TK
Table 1: ComingSoon.net, Hypable, Alana King, Nerds and Beyond, News Channel 5, Talk Nerdy With Us, Whedonopolis
Videos:
Cody Schultz: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb, Bob Singer, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Brad Buckner, Robert Berens
ComingSoon.net: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb, Bob Singer, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Brad Buckner, Robert Berens
Hypable: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb, Bob Singer, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Brad Buckner, Robert Berens
Whedonopolis: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb, Bob Singer, Brad Buckner, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Robert Berens
Articles:
Supernatural Cast & EPs Talk Final Season at Comic-Con by ComingSoon.net [archived]
SDCC: 'Supernatural' swears that the family business will carry on forever at emotional final Comic-Con by Hypable [archived]
Table 2: Fangasm, Fangirlish, Fangirl Magazine
Videos:
Fangasm: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb, Bob Singer, Brad Buckner, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Robert Berens
Fangirlish: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb, Bob Singer, Brad Buckner, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Robert Berens
Table 3: MUSE TV, ShowbizJunkies, The Winchester Family Business/TVFTROU
Videos:
The Winchester Family Business/TVFTROU: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb, Bob Singer, Brad Buckner, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Robert Berens
Table 4: GeekRock TV, Whedonopolis, The Winchester Family Business/TVFTROU
Videos:
Whedonopolis: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb, Bob Singer, Brad Buckner, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Robert Berens
The Winchester Family Business/TVFTROU: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb, Bob Singer, Brad Buckner, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Robert Berens
Table 5: Hollywood News Source, The Mary Sue, OC Register, Starry Constellation Magazine
Videos:
Hollywood News Source: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb, Bob Singer, Brad Buckner, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Robert Berens
Starry Constellation Magazine: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb Part I + Part II + Part III, Bob Singer, Brad Buckner, Eugenie Ross-Leming, Robert Berens
Articles:
Comic-Con 2019: How will ‘Supernatural’ end? Cast, showrunners talk about the 15th and final season by The Orange County Register [archived]
Comic-Con: Cast and Crew of Supernatural Tell Us What to Expect in the Final Season by The Mary Sue [archived]
The Cast and Writer of Supernatural Tell Us How They’re Feeling About the End by The Mary Sue [archived]
Table 6: KSiteTV, Pure Fandom, The TV Addict
Videos:
The TV Addict: Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins & Alexander Calvert, Andrew Dabb & Bob Singer, Brad Buckner & Robert Berens, Eugenie Ross-Leming
Articles:
SUPERNATURAL Comic-Con Press Room: The Cast and Producers Tease the End of the World, God’s Destructive Plan and the Series Ending by The TV Addict [archived]
Past Roundtables: SDCC 2015; SDCC 2016; SDCC 2017; SDCC 2018
