What are your thoughts on hemoanonymity? How much of a social stigma do you think there is against it and how much do you think forgoing a solid caste can impact a troll's life?
Because of the amount of hemoanons in both canon and the FTC, I don’t play hemoanonymity as being a flagrantly illegal thing, or a sure sign of mutant status. It does, however, carry a heavy implication of criminality; social reactions would be similar to, in our world, seeing someone in all black clothing and a ski mask strolling around the streets – or, I guess, seeing a stereotypical “gangster” in one’s white suburban neighborhood. Most people assume hemoanons are criminals!
And, like, sometimes they are. They’re also possibly lowblood rebels, slumming highbloods, hippies of all castes, people going incognito for personal reasons, and, of course, mutants. But the first thing that would pop into your average troll’s head on seeing a gray symbol is “welp, they’re probably gonna steal my wallet or try to sell me drugs in a few minutes.”
Which does of course affect the hemoanon’s life! Short of places like Malseka, where the police force is hemoanon except for their officers, forgoing caste markers can get you kicked out of a lot of places in “nice” neighborhoods. Some people might not sell to you or let you rent a hive, some people might consider any crime against you more permissible because, well, you’re a hemoanon, who are you going to tell?
(( cleaning out my drafts, this is some unused text that explains stuff i made up about her life pre-signless + religion ))
You never met my feral group, but I was with them for about... two sweeps. Among the people of the land, even non-ferals, before the empire began mass-standardization, there were several religions that centered around several gods. These gods were tied to the land... And most of them were lost to time.
Somewhere over the sweeps the Empire began wiping out “extraneous” cultures and languages. Everything had to be standardized. There were no other languages, just Common - anyone speaking anything else was punished, taken or culled. Any kind of open rebellion was met with a similar such fate. Over time, the Empire succeeded. People were afraid. They wanted to live - no one blames them, really... But yes, those gods died out. So did those languages. Some dialects, tongues and writing styles are impossible to translate now, we can only guess at what they mean.
But my group had an advantage those trolls didn’t have: Everyone is scared of us. No one talks about us. We’re “monsters, that live in the woods, kill your lusii and curse your mates.” I don’t know where this started, but for our own survival, we kept it going... If the surrounding trolls were scared, they wouldn’t know there were illegal trolls in the forest, and they wouldn’t know to send drones. They wouldn’t dare come close enough to find out. As industrialization picked up, there was less and less forest to hide in... People got caught. Groups combined. I don’t think we knew if there were any other groups, at the time I met you, but I know there were before, at some time.
So... That religion survived, through us, and with it, the goddess of the forest. I call her “the Mother”... her name is untranslatable.
“Quick as a flash, you whisk forward and kiss the insides of his wrists – two little smecks, like a fine lady in an old movie, just a bit more hasty.”
– from this drabble
“[S]he holds her hands out, splayed wrists, wiggled fingers, and looks significantly at your sickle. You’ve seen this in movies -- [...]you’re supposed to kiss her wrists or cut them clear through…”
– from Lost Teeth Like White Jewels, Chapter 2
The wrist-kiss was originally a highblood ritual of formalized trust and submission, in which person A offers the interior side of their wrists while person B kisses just above the veins. Person B is usually higherblooded*, higher-ranking, or more dominant than person A, and the gesture implies an almost-feudal acceptance of that dynamic: A is lowering their defenses and putting their life in B’s hands in a very intimate way, and B is showing mercy by forbearing from the violence that troll society deems normal and responding with affection instead.
(*Again, this is a teal-up thing, pretty much. Lowblood-highblood interactions are an entirely different set of behaviors, so, for example, a cerulean would offer their wrists to a purpleblood, but would not kiss the wrists of a rust.)
However, the custom has largely fallen out of practice in current times, except for some very, very old seadwellers. It’s chiefly used in movies or books, whether historical (to denote that This Is In The Past) or romance (to denote that It’s Gonna Get Steamy Up In Here). In the latter genre, there’s occasionally a subversion wherein a higherblood offers their wrists to a lower, changing the power dynamic between them. Troll Jane Austen has a lot of this, both subverted and played straight, and troll Austenites have written scads of excited meta about what exactly it means that Daarci offered his wrists to Elizae Bennet but Colinz expected to kiss hers instead.
Anyone who actually does wrist-kisses nowadays is viewed as hopelessly old-fashioned: opinions vary as to whether it’s pretentious to the point of douchiness, or just quaint/charming in a ridiculous way. That said, something of the wrist-kiss has filtered into the modern mainstream, but as a pale trope rather than a political one.
When you hold out your hand for their card, the gesture is purposely casual, but you take care to make sure that the pale skin of your wrist is exposed. Little trust gestures like that tend to make your customers feel more friendly...
--from this thread, starring known palebait Pheres Dysseu
Exposed wrists are still seen as very vulnerable and intimate, both because of the inherent defenselessness and because the veins are closer to the skin in the wrists, showing one’s caste clearly. Also, it usually involves empty palms, which is as universal a symbol for weaponlessness and peace as you can get. Even deprived of the official meaning that the gesture once held, anything with palms-up-wrists-out reads as pacification, and the highbloods of long ago would be scandalized at some of the stuff pale-flirting trolls get up to.
@ladytrollfishes made my Troll Pride and Prejudice idea better via tags:
#BEAUTIFUL #omg I rlly like this #starring known pale bait pheres #TROLL JANE AUSTEN #Fuck can I read troll pride and prejudice #Collins expecting to kiss elizae like he's more superior and dominant while elizae has a completely different picture of their relationship! #IT DOESNT MATTER THAT SHES TECHNICALLY LOWER THAN HIM #SHE DOESNT RESPECT HIM AT ALL SO OF COURSE SHED TAKE IT AS AN INSULT #And though Daarci is also technically higher than elizae #by the end of the book he understands that elizae demands to be treated as an equal and her pride would not submit to a relationship where #she assumed the lower status just because of her blood color #so Daarci offering her his wrist is less a signifier that he considers elizae the dominant party but really a sign to her that he respects #that she needs a relationship where she feels respected and that he does not see his blood color as automatically demanding respect #that's the part where they can acknowledge each other as equals in their relationship despite the disparity between their blood colors! #UGH AUSTEN IS SO GOOD #I can't believe I wrote troll Jane Austen meta
And then we got excited about it on Discord! Warning: even trimming out irrelevancies, it’s long, so sorry mobile bloggers.
Tl;dr: In which a plucky tealblood attempts to find concupiscent quadrants for herself and her clade before drone season arrives but is slowed by the confusing attentions of a local seadweller and the machinations of his best friend’s moirail; meanwhile, a rogue clown seduces the tealblood’s moirail’s auspistice with nefarious intent and the tealblood is courted in flush by a cerulean of comically haughty disposition, providing a reflection of the tealnlood’s own prejudice against her seadweller suitor, who is not (as she believed) flirting with her caliginously, but rather flushedly, though this will not be revealed until the end of the second act [insert another twenty lines of title here, i’m too tired to do it]
Mirk you absolutely nailed what i was going for with the daarci/elizae dynamic
M: o m g though does the troll version of their relationship have them vacillating pitch/flush for a while
M: because hmm
Tang: Oh that would be interesting
T: Oh gosh the first half of the book is pitch flirting and everyone wants them to be in a black wuad
T: And the second half is when they suddenly flip red much to everyone's shock
M: yes everyone is like ?!?!!?!?!
M: meanwhile one of elizae's clademates is getting seduced by a rogue seadweller
M: or possibly clown
M: who had PREVIOUSLY seduced (and treated poorly) daarci's moirail
T: Oooooo
T: And darci's rail now, Bingly, is angling for a really cute red with elizae's clademate, Jannae
T: Crap I can't remember everything about pride and prejudice anymore
M: i haven't read the book in years unfortunately
M: but i did rewatch the lizzie bennet diaries recently
T: Idt I actually read it I just
T: Yeah lol I watched the Lizzie Bennett diaries and read up on some meta about it
M: hahaha i'm inclined to think elizae<>jannae
T: Honestly
T: Tru that
M: and then maybe jannae♣️lydia?
T: Elizae goes to bat for Jannae all the time
M: liidya
T: Trollifying all these names is also such fun lol
M: true
T: But yeah Jannae♣️liidya seems appropriate
T: Liidya and Elizae bicker a lot and Jannae steps in p often
T: And the monetary pressure in the human books is probably gonna have to be bucket pressure
T:In the troll version
M: yes, for sure
M: and the parents are prolly lusii?like maybe jannae's lusus and elizae's lusus sort of jointly micromanage the whole clade
T: Oo that makes the Collins refusal REALLY life or death. Like elizae is essentially saying I'd rather die
M: omfg yes
M: so Elizae and most of her clade are probably pretty low blues, teal/cerulean
M: and Colinz is like. cerulean-navy or thereabouts?
M: whereas Bingly and Daarci are .... higher
T: Bingly n Daarci are yeah. Indigo or violet
T: Purple of some kind
M: yeah, like, they have to have the social clout to be able to drag Liidya out of trouble later
T: I'd go for seadwellers tbh
T: First of all I just like them second of all the political clout of seadwellers and also of the mentor ship Daarci has with whatever that old lady's name was gives it higher stakes when Elizae tells her to fuck off their relationship
T: Not that clowns aren't high stakes
T: The social divide is greater tho which I like
M: fwiw i'd think that they're not <> so much as Very Close Friends? so that leaves Gegina <> Daarci intact and also adds Bingly <> whatever the sister's name was, so the sister can be like "I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD QUAD THAT TEAL GIRL, BINGLY, SHE'S SO VERY OBVIOUSLY A SOCIAL CLIMBER"
T: I completely forget who gegina is and idk what the sisters name is too!
T: Also good point
T: Ur right
M: omg, uh, georgiana, is i think the actual name? darcy's sister
T: Caroline bingley
T: Carlin
T: Maybe
T: Admittedly I googled that
T: Maybe go with Gianna for Georgiana also? Gegina reminds me too much of regina
M: ooooh good point
T: Oh and um. Elizae had a friend who took up Collins offer right
T: What was her name again
M: charlotte!
T: This book had to have been so scandalous when published
T: Since it turned a lot into a tealblood telling off a shit ton of her social betters and winning
M: NO KIDDING
M: everyone was buzzing about it, just like they did with the human book
M: and like the expectation was for elizae to get smacked down by a twist ending
M: but the real twist
M: WAS THAT SHE DIDN'T
T: Yeessss an instant scandal, a sensation, and a controversy
M: ohhh yes and like -- drone season is rapidly approaching, Daarci makes what many would consider an incredible condescension to ask her to be his matesprit
M: and she's like "no!!!" and the audience is just like WHAT
T: And it's like she's expecting a black offer too
T: And she would have also said no to that one
T: Bc she just can't stand him entirely
M: oh my god, what if he didn't realize that she thought he was blackflirting
M: and she's like THIS GUY IS TOTALLY TRYING TO GET MY SPADE
M: and daarci's like "gee elizae has pretty eyes"
T: #JUICY
T: God elizae thinks he's blackflirting and doesn't want to do anything with him, he thinks he's redflirting and she's ok with it and lmao
M: Jannae: "are you sure you don't have SOME kind of crush on him?" Elizae: "NO I HATE HIM." Elizae: "... PLATONICALLY."
Do you have any unusual headcanons or personal lore for Alternia or the Homestuck Universe?
Boy do I
A lot of my headcanons come from a reverse-hemospectrum fic called Hemostuck! Referring to the group of a given troll’s quadrants (and their quadrants’ quadrants) as a ‘clade’ doesn’t seem to be common, nor does the concept of two-person auspisticism that I buy into pretty heavily. If I thought I could get away with it, I’d totally have quadrant rings (quadrant-symbol-shaped, the color of your quadrantmate’s blood, worn on a specific finger for each quad) be a thing, as well as having to duel someone to red-court their moirail or black-court their auspistice.
Aside from that, here are a couple of headcanons that may well be uncommon:
I usually headcanon that everyone has an ancestor, and members of the same bloodline parallel each other for mystical reasons rather than just narrative convenience
for that matter, I do thing that serendipity exists, at least partially -- people who were important to your ancestor are more likely to have descendants that are important to you! Some quadrant pairings keep cropping up throughout history between two bloodlines! And so on. This concept is kinda useful to describe it.
Less uncommon, but: Fleet service isn’t mandatory, or at least not everywhere. It’s so strongly encouraged that almost no one realizes that it’s not mandatory -- and part of the way it’s encouraged is by conditioning young trolls to associate Fleet service with maturity, desirability, and honor. Adults who willingly stay on-planet are often looked down upon, unless they’re cavern workers.
I also believe there’s magic on Alternia! There I said it, I’m sorry. Mostly just because settings without any magic at all make me a little antsy, and I think it’s more interesting to have the possibility of ~something being out there~ especially in a setting that already has psychic powers, ghosts, glowing vampires, horrorterrors, FTL travel, and quasi-mystical bonds between babies and sapient animals.
The Demoness is often referenced as a symbol of death and/or chaos in media, and some people lowkey believe that she’s a Real Thing and the equivalent of the grim reaper
Uhhhh, otherwise my headcanon tag is here, my worldbuilding tag is here -- I’m a little too spacey to think of more things to feature, but thank you so much! This was a fun ask
SO, what are your headcanons/interpretations for the ashen quadrant?
[rubs hands together] are you ready for some WORDS
I subscribe to most of Mar’s ashen headcanons, so! The quadrant carried a lot more cultural significance historically than it does in the present era, where it’s somewhat fallen out of fashion. A lot of kids these days (Raketa/Vermei/Loquen, for example, I think?) view it as a temporary arrangement to prevent improper black flings or mediate an unhealthy kismessitude; others (like Vatrra and Jerath) don’t hold with ashenrom at all. This of course varies by region and individual worldview, but there’s no legal mandate to have an auspistice (as with the concupiscent quadrants) and no huge cultural imperative to have one (as with moirallegiance). It’s probably the quadrant you could abstain from most easily, without getting a lot of people giving you wtf is this loser’s deal looks.
That said, the temporary, “professional cockblock” definition of auspisticism isn’t necessarily the only one! Relationships can last as long as the desire to meddle does. Whether three-person or two-person, an important component of a permanent ashenrom is flexibility: different partners trade off being the auspistice vs. the auspisticee, since otherwise you get an unbalanced relationship and that’s no fun for anyone.
Two-person/”rotating third wheel” auspisticism is what I default to, because Hemostuck formed a lot of my Alternia headcanons. Like all other quadrants, it’s a strong romantic bond with the prevailing feeling of “I do not want this person to die.” But as Mar put it, “there’s none of the desire to challenge and strengthen them that comes with kismeses, and there’s none of the desire to fix them that comes with pale.” More like hauling your partner out of scrapes by their collar or dope-slapping them when they get stupid ideas. Admittedly, this can blur pale a bit (and some pale relationships can blur ashen), but the underlying emotion is hate, not pity. You don’t like this person, but you do love them.
Auspistices of this sort are also expected (and encouraged) to meddle in each other’s relationships, though the degree to which this is acceptable varies from couple to couple – some people restrict the meddling to unsuitable blackcrushes, some people don’t mind their auspistice getting all up in literally every quadrant, and there’s a whole range in between those two. If you don’t have a kismate, your auspistice might act as a matchmaker. You might get together with your auspistice on the weekends and be salty about your acquaintances together. It’s a romantic relationship, and like any romantic relationship, it plays out in as many different ways as there are people in the world.
To bring my ramblings from the general to the specific:
WIDSTH considers auspisticism to be as vital to serendipity as any other quadrant, and has read and written ballads on ashen couples/trios before. He’s much less of a conciliatory flirt than he is a concupiscent flirt, though, so he’s gonna mack on someone red or black long before he thinks of pale or ashen. The region he hails from tends towards two-way auspisticism, and that would be what he seeks out if he ever goes looking.
VIDELE’s quadrant education was both antiquated and slapdash, and so heavily stressed the auspisticism as an important, permanent relationship. She knows of both forms of the quadrant, but the only one she’s seen in action was two-way. As with blackrom, she lowkey assumes she’s incapable of it, but unlike blackrom she accidentally flirts a lot. Informing her of this will get the same flustered WHAT NO I’M JUST BEING FRIENDLY I DON’T MEAN TO– reaction that accusing her of paleflirting does.
TAZ has a more modern/casual view of ashenrom and is cool with temporary relationships, but wouldn’t mind a more longterm one. She’s the only one of my trolls to be actively shopping for an auspistice, because of the mess that is Umetto. If she finds one that he won’t run off, the trio might settle into auspisticism, but that depends.
Hypothetical question that occurred to me while cutting ribbon at work: what color would trolls wear in mourning?
Black seems to be their default color, so wearing all black wouldn’t be very much out of the ordinary even if you weren’t bereaved. White would be the other option I’d think of, but lusii being entirely white complicates that: why would a color most people associate with their guardians become a mourning color? Do you just wear the color of the loved one who died? If so, what are the protocols if your loved one was higher-caste?
Would trolls even have a ritual like this, given the heavy color-coding of their society and their apparent lack of funerals? Probably not, but it just seemed an interesting question.
Right, okay, this is neither my circus nor my monkeys and for my butting in I apologize, but I felt the need to preserve Mar's tags:
#but the real question is#is there anything about gothic horror that is NOT real on alternia??#alarming fish-faced aristocrats linked with lovecraftian horrors in the sea: CHECK#alarming aquatic-themed aristocrats with mind-control powers: CHECK#religious cults that practice human sacrifice: CHECK#vampires and alarming pseudo-science experiments: YES
