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TRANSCRIPT for EPISODE 4

[music]

ANTHONY GESA: It was just a chance for me to like...see that band once, for free. And it turned into seeing them almost every day for two years which is more than I could have ever asked for.

MIKE MOSCHETTO: Hold on a second. Is this a rare positive outcome this show? Don’t adjust your podcast dial, I’m still Mike Moschetto and this is still Sellin’ Out.

[music: “I’m a casino that pays nothing when you win / Please put your money in”]

MIKE: Hey folks, thanks for listening to Sellin’ Out, where fools and their money are routinely parted at every rest stop, gas station, parking garage, toll booth, Taco Bell, Guitar Center and one-star motel just off the interstate from sea to shining sea. I’m Mike Moschetto and, quick housekeeping item before I proceed – if you have made it to the end of any of the past few episodes, this will be old hat to you at this point. But in spite of the name of the show, I am committed to keeping Sellin’ Out free from advertisers, so no plugs for meal-prep delivery services, website creation platforms, online hiring assistants, or mattresses, underwear or fill-in-the-blank of the future. What I’m trying to do instead to undercut the costs of production is to rely on you, the listener, to throw a couple of bucks a month my way via Patreon. If you don’t listen to a lot of podcasts, it’s a platform for, kind of a public-media style funding model where a pledge is not required but it is greatly appreciated, and every one keeps the wheels greased as it were. In return, I’m interested in providing exclusive bonus content for subscribers and I do have some ideas as to what those might be, maybe more newsy and topical content about this precarious intersection of creativity and commerce. But also, maybe followups with previous guests? More banter, more loose, hot-takes I guess? In any event I’ve been asking at the end of the past few episodes for your input on what you, the prospective patron, would like to hear out of this. You can write in with your suggestions at [email protected] or on twitter @SellinOutAD. And you can always just write in with your feedback, too – I’m still pretty green at this whole thing and would love to get you involved however I can. If it ever comes to it I may take listener questions on the show if you have any. In fact, if you follow me on Twitter @SellinOutAD or even on Facebook at facebook.com/sellinoutpodcast, you can find out who I’m going to have on the show in the future and you can submit what you want to know from them, submit questions ahead of time. Not that you should be doing my work for me, but whatever. You get it. Now on the subject of Patreon and crowdfunding, I am acutely aware of the irony of hosting an producing a show about the, let’s say, dearth of cash flow among musicians and the music-adjacent, and then turning around myself and asking for your monetary contribution to this project. Totally get it, and if you only have so much disposable income I would much prefer you spend it on a record or a tape or a CD or a shirt, cover charge to a show, anything – that is, after all, the crux of this program: to encourage support for independent artists so they can continue doing what they do. But the other important thing to know is that this Patreon thing that I’ve been spending all this time on is completely optional. Much like being in a band, I will continue to do this as long as it still makes sense and then probably a year or so longer than that, because I think these conversations are enlightening to me anyway and hopefully they provide some perspective for you as well. So go to Patreon.com/sellinoutpodcast to find out more. But once again, there’s no obligation and I just appreciate you being here. Now, onto the show - my guest today is Anthony Gesa, guitarist for the New Jersey band Gatherers - one of my favorite, one of the most impressive current post-hardcore/screamo/whatever bands. They have a new album out now on Equal Vision Records called ‘We Are Alive Beyond Repair;’ go treat yourself to a copy of that. Anthony also manages and releases music for artists under the Party Smasher, Inc. brand, and if that name sounds familiar to you it’s because Anthony also spent roughly two years in the employ of the legendary Dillinger Escape Plan as a stage tech on their extensive farewell tour that took him all around the world. So we spoke about that, about uprooting your life to join a band in another city, the music industry in higher education and so, so much more. Here’s my conversation with Anthony Gesa.

[music]

MIKE: So what got you into music in the first place and I guess more specifically punk and hardcore if you even want to call it by those terms?

ANTHONY: There were I guess two things. One of my best friends growing up, his older brother, he was four or five years older than us...I’d gotten into the Deftones probably through MTV or whatever, and he basically gave me a Glassjaw record and he said, “hey, this is the Deftones if they played it wrong.” So I listened to it and then I realized they’re from Long Island, not too far away from where I am. I just started trying to look on places like Mp3.com for other Long Island bands and then it turned out kids that I went to high school were in a band called Stray from the Path and they were on there as well. I just started talking to them, and they were all a little bit older than me...They were like, “If you like Glassjaw and you think our stuff is cool, we’re going to a show if you want to go at this venue called the Downtown, and it ended up being the Dillinger Escape Plan and Every Time I Die doing a weekend run, and this is while ‘Last Night In Town’ was out and ‘Calculating Infinity’ was out. And that was my first glance into that world.

MIKE: Man, that is golden-era shit.

ANTHONY: Yeah I’m super fortunate. And then from there they started taking me to all these local shows and, at this time the Movielife had just blown up and there was a lot going on around here. Glassjaw was still playing Long Island relatively often, there was a bunch of stuff going on and it was the first time where I saw outside of the world of MTV or whatever, that there’s a community around it and I started soon getting into booking shows of bands that I would find through Mp3.com or whatever or message boards, and I would start asking them to come to Long Island to play. One of the first shows I ever booked was with Ed Gein at this weird dance hall and it just snowballed and...you know, I’d always kind of dabbled in playing music but I was more into seeing the community of it and that’s basically what became of my weekends. Just going to shows and exploring music that way, so that’s how I got into the punk and hardcore scene.

MIKE: How old are you, out of curiosity?

ANTHONY: I just turned 30.

MIKE: Okay, that’s kind of what I thought; I knew we were around the same age but you talking about Mp3.com is such a sense memory to me, it’s so fucking funny.

ANTHONY: That was the only way to find free music post-Napster.

MIKE: [laughs] It’s so specific! Like, I have two Anterrabae songs on my hard drive that I probably got from Mp3.com. When I first met you I guess that was probably what, 2012? When I did that Pastlives record back then?

ANTHONY: Yeah, either 2011 or 2012.

MIKE: At the risk of seeming like I’m just blowing smoke up your ass, honestly it’s still one of my favorite records I’ve ever done.

ANTHONY: You’re sweet

MIKE: Well, you know, I’m just telling the truth here. Obviously I know that wasn’t your first band, but where did I find you on your musical journey at that point?

ANTHONY: The other real band I was ever in was from Boston called Shot Heard Around the World. One of my friends was like, “Hey, they’re looking for a guitarist to fill in for a tour,” so I talked to Brian from that band and we hit it off and I packed up my station wagon with everything I could fit in and just kinda...bounced, and went on tour. I just kinda stayed in New England after that, up until recently.

MIKE: Until we spoke a couple months ago at the show, I didn’t realize that you were from Long Island originally, what brought you up to Boston?

ANTHONY: A terrible, terrible girl. She was going to school around that area. She basically gave me an ultimatum to move to New Hampshire or we were kinda done, so I did that.

MIKE: [laughs] You had to “live free or die?”

ANTHONY: [laughs]

MIKE: And you moved back to Long Island why? Like for a non-terrible girl?

ANTHONY: On a personal note, my mom got sick and it was really just- I don’t want to be in Boston, not in a band, because at this point Pastlives had kind of stopped doing stuff. So it was more of...my wife now was just like, “We’ve got to move to New York.” And she’s not from there. She left all of her family and was just like, “We gotta go.”

MIKE: Yeah, she’s from here right?

ANTHONY: Yeah. And so at this point we were only dating for maybe a little over a year and it was just a crazy selfless act on her part, just saying “let’s drop everything and go.” So I’ve been here and luckily it’s worked out.

MIKE: Yeah. So tell me how you get into the fold at VuDu Studios. Do you have a studio background?

ANTHONY: Yeah, so when I started getting into hardcore bands and stuff like that, I went to see Stray record one of their records that they’ll never admit to putting out. I thought it was really cool, and it was at just one of our friends’ houses. I thought I wanted to do that at 15-16, so I bought the worst shit possible, but I was able to record local bands and stuff. And then I’d graduated high school at 16 and I was looking at colleges. My mom gave me an amazing piece of advice. She said, “If you’re really into working with bands, you have plenty of time to be practical...why don’t you find a school that will cater to that?” So I found Full Sail, fortunately or unfortunately, so I went there and started getting more into it, just recording bands on my own. That kind of all stopped once I moved to New England the first time with that girl, moved back to Long Island after Shot Heard Around The World disbanded...I was working construction jobs and I was miserable. My wife told me, “Find a studio and intern, and we’ll make it work.”

MIKE: So you DID intern.

ANTHONY: So I did intern for a while, for like a year. I just started being asked to edit stuff, and then I was getting paid a very small amount to just do drum editing and session setups and then I really catered toward the business end of things, working with labels and scheduling and stuff like that. And while I was doing my own thing at VuDu, I was just asked to kind of manage the studio, and that’s what I did up until two years ago.

MIKE: I didn’t even realize you had all of the technical background, I thought the business role – and I guess I was right that the business role was your bread and butter. I guess it’s worth actually mentioning in some detail for people who don’t know what the deal with VuDu Studios is, give me just a handful of records that have been cut there, for the sake of example.

ANTHONY: As Cities Burn, ‘Son I Loved You At Your Darkest.’ Everything The Deer Hunter did past Act II. The last two Hopesfall records, the new one that’s coming out...The last O’ Brother record was mixed there. Drums for the new Dillinger Escape Plan was recorded there. Glassjaw was recorded and mixed there – the new one, ‘Material Control.’ He did all of the As Tall As Lions stuff. So he has a very heavy hand in the New York scene.

MIKE: I guess so. I mean that’s...talk about a regional hub. So at some point in there, obviously Dillinger tracks ‘Dissociation.’ I know you said you saw them at your first show and maybe had friends in common with people who knew them, but how do you broach the subject of...you obviously work with them now; how does that come about?

ANTHONY: I’d become friends with Billy a few years before then, just because he’s from Long Island and-

MIKE: Billy Rymer?

ANTHONY: Yeah.

MIKE: Is he still the drummer?

ANTHONY: Yep.

MIKE: I can’t keep track of these freakin’ guys.

ANTHONY: Well he’s been the longest-standing drummer, I think this is year 9 or 10 for him. He joined the band super young, he was like 23. So yeah, we had met a few years ago. He was recording at VuDu and I was assisting on the session for his Radiohead tribute band. We just started talking and somehow we ended up at the same social gathering, we hit it off…Fast forward to when they were recording ‘Disassociation,’ he introduced me to Ben [Weinman] and Liam [Wilson] and we hit it off as much as you can when they’re in the middle of recording what’s gonna be their last record and their heads are everywhere else.

[music]

MIKE: When they ask you, do you know that it’s gonna be for the long haul, for the two-year stretch that they’re doing all of these shows all around the world?

ANTHONY: No, and I don’t think... They asked me to do just one show they were doing at this really small club on Long Island called Amityville Music Hall – 200-cap room, and I still look at it as probably the worst experience of my life, because everything that could go wrong absolutely went wrong. Ben’s amp getting knocked over, Liam’s amp dying mid-first song and not coming back, just because of shitty power...it was just a horrendous experience. It was the worst first gig anyone could have, and I think they knew what it was gonna be coming into it, and they just didn’t let ME know. You know, obviously I’ve seen the band and I know that they’re crazy but I’ve never been on that side of it where I have to be the one to control everything that’s going on onstage.

MIKE: Oh man.

ANTHONY: Yeah, no. I thought it was just that one gig, and then they asked me that night to go with them to... the complete opposite gig! They were doing a - the next day they were doing a show at the Electric Factory which is a few thousand people in Philadelphia; it’s a huge, huge venue and they were supporting a one-off Mastodon show. From there I didn’t hear anything from them. I just figured it was those two shows, that’s cool, I got to tech and hang out with one of my favorite bands, it was unexpected, and I still have another job so I wasn’t banking on it. Then Liam calls me like a week later like, “Hey, get your passport; we’re going to the UK.”

MIKE: Wow. And so that moment of just thinking you’re gonna be with them for, wherever they go for a while, what’s going through your head in terms of re-organizing your whole life around it? Were you in a position that that wasn’t insanely stupid to do or irresponsible to do?

ANTHONY: Yeah, I mean I was working at VuDu Studios full time, so they obviously understood the whole band mentality. I was also touring with my band at the time, so they were used to me leaving. I wasn’t sure the extent of the tour - no one was. This was just a two-week thing to go to Canada, East Coast, West Coast and the UK, and then I thought that was as far as that was gonna go. So I talked to my wife, she was more than supportive about it, so I just kinda packed my bags and went along and just assumed that that was it after that, and it just kept going.

MIKE: So you just have to keep re-upping that, “well I’ll figure it out later.” But they’re paying you, which...that’s tough to get. I don’t want you to necessarily go into how much you earn if you’re not comfortable, that’s obviously fine. But do you have a sense of how your take-home pay is decided? Does it come out of their guarantee on a tour-by-tour basis? Are you being paid nightly? Does it matter where you go?

ANTHONY: I have a salary, so whether we do two shows a week or seven shows I get paid the same, which is nice that I know my income. It was enough for me to quit any other job I had going on and just go on tour for two years. It was enough to pay the bills. I would’ve done it for free!

MIKE: And that’s the most dangerous thing to say, too. What’s that thing that’s going around right now, Suicide Silence? You pay all this money and win a chance to be their roadie.

ANTHONY: That’s insane. So you’re paying an exorbitant amount of money to be their roadie? It’s ridiculous. Luckily Dillinger hasn’t put out a bad record where the industry makes you do that in order to have a crew, so they’ve always had a production budget to take care of the people they bring out. None of us are going on MTV Cribs, but they’ve been incredibly fair with it. They’ve helped me live when I’m not on tour which is a huge thing, where when we weren’t on tour I was wondering what’s going to happen, if I’m going to be able to keep my electric on.

MIKE: That’s huge. And with that in mind, you’re on the road with them how often would you say? In the past two years, how much of it have you spent at home?

ANTHONY: We’d go out for two months, home for a week or two; out for a month and a half, home for a week or two. So every other month or every other two months, I’ve been out with a two-week-to-a-month break in between.

MIKE: But everything’s cool in between, like money’s still coming in...that’s the part I’m trying to wrap my head around, what their production budget must be that they can sustain anything. I guess it’s different because there’s an end date on it, as opposed to “well let’s sustain this along as we can.” That has to play into it, right?

ANTHONY: I can only speak to how they’ve taken care of me, but just talking with any other tech they’ve had – they’re still close with everyone who’s ever worked for them, because they’ve never treated anyone terribly, they’ve always genuinely great people to them and when they could afford to pay, it seemed like they took care of whoever was willing to work for the band. Even though...You know, it’s a grind. There’s some weeks where there’s no days off...sometimes we’ll do six shows in a week, seven; there’ll be times where they do two shows in a night – they’ll do a DIY show for fun.

MIKE: That’s amazing.

ANTHONY: Yeah no, it’s great. And also, mind you, they’re playing big rooms. They’re not playing 300 cap rooms. Obviously I don’t know the bookkeeping of the band, but everyone does well.

MIKE: Yeah, and to that end also you’ve been literally all over the world: Australia, New Zealand, India recently, Europe, UK, Ireland, Scandinavia, United States, Canada, Mexico, Japan, Russia, Israel...what’s the comfort level from place to place? Is it all fairly consistently taken care of, or are you slumming it occasionally still? Do you notice a difference?

ANTHONY: India was...I don’t want to say “bad”...It made me grateful to be from where I am. I’ve never seen so much poverty in one place, where toddlers, teenage kids, elderly people are all sleeping on the streets. We were in Poonai and Mumbai and for a brief minute Delhi, and it all just looked unfinished. Sidewalks were ripped up, stray dogs everywhere, trash all over - streets covered in it. And the scariest thing is there’s no real traffic laws. So people are just doing whatever they want on the road without lights or lanes. It was very interesting to see traffic come to a halt though when a cow would cross the road, which is...You know, it’s sacred there. And it’s really interesting to see that despite everything that’s going on, hundreds of thousands of people in these cities, this animal steps onto the road and everyone comes to a halt and lets it take its time to get across the street. And that’s a cool thing to see, that despite everything that’s going on – class system, whatever – everyone still holds the same thing important.

MIKE: Yeah, like there’s a reverence for something that transcends all of that.

ANTHONY: Exactly.

MIKE: The fact that you went to India at all was interesting to me, because I never hear about metal bands, rock bands – anything that’s even remotely “Western” in that way – go to that part of the world. The most exotic thing I can think of is Have Heart playing in South Africa. But India just seems like this total uncharted territory for a guitar band.

ANTHONY: It was interesting. And there was thousands of people that knew every word to every song. It was really cool to see that aspect of it. When we first landed, Liam and I went to the promoter rep and said, “Hey, we’re gonna go walk around, get some street food and just hang out. Where would you suggest going?” He said, “to your rooms and getting room service and not leaving the premises,” because it’s just so dangerous – even in the major cities – with abduction and things like that. And then we were also told in the same breath, “make sure you don’t drink any of the water or eat any fresh fruits or vegetables.” And for people who don’t eat any sort of animal product, it’s a crazy thing to hear. “Don’t eat any vegetables,” just becasue their water is so polluted from all the trash, and when they wash their vegetables – and plus the irrigation – there’s just all this bacteria.

MIKE: Yeah. Fuck. Now, to my point before, is it kind of a blind spot for me to say that I don’t know of a lot of bands that go to India or do you think-

ANTHONY: I don’t know of any other bands.

MIKE: Yeah it was a novel experience for y’all, right? Do you think it maybe opens the door to more of it or is there even an interest there?

ANTHONY: I don’t know. It’s a brutal flight and it’s very expensive to get there, but the festival that we played, it was huge as far as heavy music. There was a lot of bands that had the Dillinger-esque style, from India. Like, they’re from Mumbai and they were just incredible. So there IS a scene there for it, I think it’s just making sure you can get there and being safe about it, because you have to unfortunately...it’s one of the only places I’ve been to where safety was the biggest concern rather than getting to the show. Whereas Israel I THOUGHT would be like that, but we were walking around Israel like 3-4am, 5am, just hanging out. People also just hanging out, having a good time. One of the most gorgeous I’ve ever been and the people there were so friendly. There wasn’t a point where we didn’t feel safe.

MIKE: Were you in Tel Aviv?

ANTHONY: Yeah, we were in Tel Aviv, I guess that’s where – up until recently – all the embassies were. But even being in a major city, it’s surrounded by this amazing...the Mediterranean Sea is gorgeous. People go out every night all night, restaurants are open 24 hours. It doesn’t shut down and it’s very...like, Mumbai is also a major city, and you’re advised not to go out in the middle of the night, where Tel Aviv is the capital and they’re just like, “Yeah, go have fun.” Our promoter was like, “Yeah, go have fun. If you go to Jerusalem, make sure you go during the day and you know your Uber driver knows where he’s going to. Other than that, yeah, everything is pretty much safe.”

[music]

MIKE: There’s also something to be said for overseas hospitality in general, compared to what you get here.

ANTHONY: Oh yeah. Everyone overseas is...those were some of the best experiences that I’ve had.

MIKE: Do you get time to see stuff? Or are you just pretty much working and driving between place to place the whole time?

ANTHONY: We definitely have time to see stuff. Liam was always big with that. The first time I went to the UK, we were in London and Billy woke me up at 5am because I had to go see Big Ben, London Bridge and all these things that are touristy, because we had such a crazy schedule. This was the first time I went there and I wasn’t sure if it was the only time I was gonna go there, and he wasn’t either so he wanted to make sure I saw everything that was worth seeing. Liam was the same way throughout the last two years. He was always making sure to include me to go see the huge square in Brussels or go into Copenhagen, to one of the world’s first amusement parks, just seeing crazy things. So I’ve definitely gotten the chance to see some cool stuff, even if it means not sleeping. I definitely was able to take as much as it in as I could, and the fact that we’ve gone to most places multiple times – if I didn’t see something I wanted to see the first time, I made sure to make time to see it the second time, if I had to Uber or walk or whatever. I was definitely able to see a lot.

MIKE: Yeah. And you know what? You’ll sleep when you’re dead.

ANTTHONY: Exactly.

MIKE: [laughs] And at some point – you must have become especially chummy to trhe point where you’re working with Party Smasher, which is what..Ben’s label? Is that right?

ANTHONY: Yeah it’s a label/management company that he and I do. Basically throughout the touring we just kinda got close. Into the same music, into the same dumb TV shows, same ideals and we hit it off. I was really fortunate that he kinda took me under his wing and he’s basically shown me everything he knows, even as far as playing guitar or business, whatever. He’s been great. It led to probably the coolest job I could think of having as an adult.

MIKE: Truly. That’s super cool. Now, when I ran into you recently, you were on your first DIY tour in a couple of years with your band Gatherers. What were your initial impressions? Was there kind of a culture shock or did you just fall right back into it?

ANTHONY: I was incredibly excited to get back into it. There was no part of me that didn’t want to be there. It was a very welcoming change. It gets a little frustrating being on the sidelines sometimes, where I’m in this band that’s on the other side of the world and they’re rehearsing. It gets to be kind of daunting not being able to play with your band, and the fact that we were able - within 3 days or 4 days of me getting home from Japan, we left for 10 days. And it was great. Every part of it - the shows, the drives - it was something that I didn’t realize I missed as much I did until we were back at it.

MIKE: Is there anything that you may have learned in your time touring with Dillinger that you could apply to making your DIY efforts more successful going forward with Gatherers, for example?

ANTHONY: Absolutely, from just scheduling, the business aspects, things I’ve learned from Ben...just observing how Dillinger works to kind of maximize our experience and how to get things done in a certain way. Small things, like sending venues stage plots and input lists in advance, that I would’ve never thought of before I started touring with Dillinger, where we get to a venue and the sound guy knows how the stage should be set up. He knows how many inputs we have, things like that. Budgeting for a tour, just all around...made me have a better sense of how to tour-manage my own band.

MIKE: So do you find that you’re more active with those kinds of logistical activities than you were? Because you’re not around as often, so I don’t know who was running the books for Gatherers. Is it more of a shared effort now that you have some scalable real-world experience?

ANTHONY: They kinda tricked me into managing the band full-on, which wasn’t my intent. I was excited to just play guitar in a band.

MIKE: I would kill to just play an instrument in a band and not have to think about stuff.

ANTHONY: Right? But I love doing it, so it’s not really...It’s a labor of love. So yeah, I kinda fell into taking the reins from Adam, who plays drums, who has been doing it for five years or so.

MIKE: And he’s also the guy who records everything too, so he’s…

ANTHONY: Yeah, so it was a welcome change for him to just be able to kinda relax and play his instrument and that’s all he has to do. It was nice being the newest member in the band and having a sense of a role very early on, instead of trying to figure out where I sit and not trying to step on anyone’s toes, which is always a good thing.

MIKE: Yeah, as the new guy I would want to tread lightly too.

ANTHONY: Yeah, and instead of that they just threw me in and said “hey you’re running this now” which is great. I’m very excited about being able to take all the experiences and knowledge that I’ve gained over the last two years and try to make my band successful.

MIKE: So the elephant in the room is that now that Dillinger is effectively over, what does the roadmap look like for you?

ANTHONY: I’m gonna take a nap for about a month, and then life’s gonna go on. Ben and I are gonna pick up with Party Smasher; that’s kind of what he and I are doing now. That’s what I have planned for after Dillinger, just working on managing bands. We have a few artists on the roster now; we just put out two records last year that I’m insanely proud of, we have a bunch of artists that we’re gonna be announcing that we’re working with. We have records that we’re gonna put out this year, and then Gatherers has a new record and we already have a pretty full year so far booked for touring, so it’s enough to keep me busy. Luckily I have a job where I can work from the road and I have a boss I guess that understands more than anyone would why I need to work from the road and not just be in an office.

MIKE: Of course. And so Party Smasher is your job at this point.

ANTHONY: Yeah.

MIKE: And is there a door open, like could you go back to VuDu if you wanted to?

ANTHONY: I’m sure I could.

MIKE: Did they get some other schmuck to do your job?

ANTHONY: Yeah, but I’m sure I could walk back in to some degree, just because I have a great rapport with everyone. But I’m trying not to go backwards. I kind of want to just see what new experiences I can get. I don’t want to fall into a routine that I’ve already been through, even if it means times are a little bit leaner and I’m just able to see where my life goes organically.

MIKE: You don’t drive for Uber, fly by night, Airbnb your place…

ANTHONY: [laughs] No, thank God...And I might do something like that in between tours, just to make the days not blend together and get stir-crazy, but as of right now my focus is just on making Party Smasher successful, and then making Gatherers as successful as possible.

MIKE: That’s awesome, man. You’re a very lucky guy.

ANTHONY: I sure am.

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MIKE: As always, support Anthony, support Gatherers, Party Smasher, everything. I’ll have info and links in the description of this episode. If you want to support the show, Patreon.com/sellinoutpodcast. If you want to get in touch, I’m at [email protected] or on Twitter @SellinOutAD. If you want to leave a nice rating and review on Apple Podcasts, it would really help other like-minded folks find the show, or you can resurrect your old LiveJournal – or if you’re real badass, your Deadjournal – and post about it there. And thanks! The music you hear at the beginning and end of every episode is “No Cab Fare” by the band Such Gold, support those guys too while you’re at it. Cover art for the show is provided by Nick DiNatale. I’m Mike Moschetto. Thanks again, we’ll see ya next time. This is Sellin’ Out.

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