#anti-tfa

[swsequelsalt]

Star Wars sequels are unpopular across all generations; none of them rank among most-viewed SW content for any demo

New Star Wars streaming report reveals a huge problem facing the franchise

New data reveals some troubling trends in a galaxy far away

loooooool

[the-far-bright-center]

I just saw someone say that Star Wars has no happy ending romances, and now I'm fuming and want to burn Disney to the ground all over again. You know who is THE 'happy ending' Star Wars romance of all time? Han and Leia. They had a happy ending for nigh on 40 years, and I'm not going to let the steaming pile o' shite that was TFA tell me otherwise. If you think that ooc nonsense is canon, then you're bringing the pain on yourself at this point.

So yes, Star Wars absolutely has a 'happy ending' romance, and it's the OG couple of them all: Han and Leia.

[swiftsnowmane]

@dasfeministmermaid - apologies, I realise you asked this absolutely ages ago (last year now, even!), but re: my tags on this post, I was mostly just referring to the fact that at the time Disney took over SW, the popularity of GoT was largely responsible for the trend towards dark and 'gritty realism' in fantasy media in general. I don't claim there was necessarily direct influence on the SW sequels, but if we are talking cultural zeitgeists, then aside from perhaps Marvel, GoT was certainly one of the most prominent at the time. And I can't help but see something of that in TFA’s whole 'we’re going to portray the Original Trio as colossal failures and morally grey at best, instead of the unquestionably heroic figures created by George Lucas'. Not to mention the bizarro depiction of the Skywalker family as some kind of 'cursed' dynasty that was doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past, despite the fact that such a cynical interpretation flew in the face of every story element, theme, and character arc established in the original saga. The only Skywalker who was under a so-called 'curse' was Anakin (and by that I simply mean his enslavement by Sidious), and he freed himself (and his family, and the whole galaxy) from that once and for all when he destroyed the Sith and saved his son at the end of Return of the Jedi. In this light, the course of events that was supposed to have taken place off-screen in-between RotJ and TFA made no sense within the actual context established by the Lucas saga. The milieu of the characters in the PT and OT is purposefully constructed to be different from one another, hence why the Skywalker twins are raised without any direct Jedi influence, in loving families, are allowed to have childhoods, allowed to love, etc., unlike their parents who were trapped within an increasingly corrupt system that actively prevented them from living together as a couple or family. The very context in which Luke and Leia’s story takes place is a big part of what allows them to definitively break the cycle.

Of course, it can be argued that simply by continuing the story beyond RotJ at all, the Disney-sequels were always going to destroy the meaning of the Lucas saga. But the character assassination of the Original Trio in TFA was a conscious and completely unnecessary decision—after all, a sequel could have potentially been made without destroying Han, Luke, and Leia’s entire characterisations and relationships. The fact that Disney also (lazily and pointlessly) decided to construct a new 'Dark Times' as the setting is even more telling, since there was absolutely no need to do so, and all it did was add to the impression that these characters were nihilistically doomed to constantly repeat the same past mistakes and tragedies, when nothing could be further from the truth that Lucas' story established. I have gone into great detail about this many times over the years since TFA was released, so I won't dwell on it here, but the Original Trio absolutely DOES 'break the cycle', and suggesting otherwise destroys not only the meaning of the OT, but also that of the Prequels (basically erasing Anakin's entire story). The unequivocally happy ending of RotJ is likewise what 'redeems' the tragedy of the Prequels, and without that, the meaning of the entire Lucas saga is totally undermined and destroyed. I refuse to accept that, hence why I've always rejected the Disney-sequels and will never accept them as legitimate canon.

In brief, Star Wars was never meant to be 'gritty', nor is the outcome of its storyline supposed to be 'realistic'. Lucas' saga begins with a tragedy (the Prequels) that is subsequently redeemed by a fairytale (Original Trilogy), and which, when taken together, forms a created-myth, the outcome of which is meant to be idealistic, positive, uplifting, redemptive, and restorative. It is the eucatastrophe that Tolkien talks about, the defiance in the face of 'universal final defeat'. But the Disney-sequels ignored and/or actively overturned everything positive and meaningful about the original saga (that most lifelong SW fans like myself had valued and cherished since childhood) and all in the service of a decidedly lesser wannabe ‘addition’ that was devoid of the inspiring Romanticism and mythopoesis of Lucas’ saga. TFA came at a time when studios had certain assumptions about audience expectations and pandered to those accordingly. So I’m not saying there was direct influence from GoT, just that there was a cultural trend that a lot of media got swept up in at that time. Imo, it's also just the inevitable pitfall of attempting to make something that vaguely resembles ‘Star Wars' appeal to contemporary sensibilities. It was never going to work, because Star Wars (the real Star Wars) is mythic, Romantic, and transcendent—a type of story that, sadly, contemporary studios and audiences alike seem unable to appreciate.

**Note: most of the meta I've linked on this subject is from my Star Wars sideblog which is vehemently anti-Sequels, so fair warning to anyone who happens to like those. ;p

[erindarroch]

Can you give us some Han/Leia family headcanons? Like, when do they start talking babies? Do they agree that they even want a family?

Hello Anon! 

Thank you for your question. If you know me, you know I utterly reject Disney canon and especially when it comes to Han and Leia as parents. In my headcanon, there are no accidents (happy or otherwise), and no child of theirs would ever be neglected or abused. Not for any reason. Leia wouldn’t withhold vital information from her child(ren) about their heritage, either. Nope. Nuh-uh. Not having it. 

So, that said, I think having kids would be just about the last thing on their minds, even after Endor and after the war is finally won. @jhgraham and I have a timeline of our own devising which (a) compresses the time between ANH and ESB and (b) has them getting married 8 or 9 months after Endor (before the end of the war, but when it’s clearly winding down and they can begin to seriously plan for the future.) We think it might come up just before they marry, but more because it is suggested to them by some third party, as a question they might want to consider before they are formally and officially bonded for life. So, they look at each other and one of them, probably Han, shrugs and says, “I’m game if you are, Princess. But I don’t mind if we don’t, either.” Leia’s happy to agree with that, and that’s the last time they discuss it for a while.... 

We have lots of ideas, partly gleaned from other writers and readers and commentators in this fandom, about what Leia will choose to do with her life after the war, and likewise Han. We’re going waaaay AU with that, favouring a future where Leia eventually (after much angst) embraces her legacy as a Force-sensitive person. She makes up her mind to stop fearing it or worrying about it, and tackles it head-on. She doesn’t run from problems; she takes aim and shoots ‘em down, right? 

Our Leia will be a Jedi. 

Probably a Consular, blending her political skills and experience with her Force powers, for the good of all the galaxy. 

And Han... well, Han’s going to get to do what he does best and loves the most, and he’ll get paid handsomely for it, too, thanks to the brilliant Kelleher, who came up with a career path for him that JG and I both adore. Kels has told us she doesn’t mind if we borrow it, so that’s what we’re going to do. 

All of that means that, after several years of gallivanting around the galaxy and having adventures together (and with Chewie and his family, and with Luke), Han and Leia will eventually enjoy a rather...settled life. And at that point, perhaps 7ABY or 8ABY, when they’ve been married for a few years and are confident that they’re rock-solid and as ready as they’ll ever be, they’ll go for it. Probably several times. ;) 

Ultimately, they will be loving and devoted parents whose FS children will never turn to the dark side (...their non-FS ones might be a little wild, though). 

None of that later time period will make for much in the way of exciting fanfiction, I fear. It all sounds very dull when I write it out like that. Han and Leia in Happyville, forever! lol I hope it doesn’t put you off! 

Thanks for your question! 

[onwardintolight]

Even though the Women Are Star Wars panel was generally awful, here are two things the wonderful Timothy Zahn said that I really loved (one from the panel and one I overheard at his table). 

- From what I gathered, he’s not a huge fan either of the way Han and Leia were treated in TFA. While acknowledging that Star Wars — and much of media in general — has often been about broken families, he insisted that there’s a place for a healthy family; that you can have a healthy family and conflict at the same time. He cited The Incredibles as a good example of that, and said he hoped that Lucasfilm would keep in mind stories like that as they go forward.

- When he writes, he doesn’t do all his world-building up front. He only comes up with what he needs to serve the characters and the story, letting the plot drive his world-building. That way in the future, when he comes back to write more and needs to do more world-building, he comes with more experience and more years of thought to add to it. It was a good reminder for me that I don’t necessarily have to have everything figured out at first when I write. As I have more life experience and more time to think about my characters and the world they’re in — as I grow with them — I’ll be able to bring more to the story. (I believe this whole conversation was in response to a question about how much he knew about the Chiss when he first started writing about Thrawn — the answer was not much)

[strawberryinoue]

This is how I feel regarding the "Last Jedi." The trailer may look great but then again the Force Awakens trailer looked amazing and it was... 😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠 SHIT! This film I have very low expectations. And I just hope Luke as a character doesn't get much fucked over unlike how TFA did bad damage to him. Leia (RIP Carrie) and Han sadly got the most fucked over as characters to me.

[kyliafanfiction-archive]

If you liked The Force Awakens, you liked A New Hope. Because, after all, they're the same goddamn movie.

[swsequelsalt]

The unfortunate legacy of The Force Awakens and the Star Wars sequels

The fact that The Force Awakens made so much money in 2015 has been a lead weight around Hollywood's neck for the better part of a decade now. 

We're *STILL* seeing decades-late sequels that imitate the Star Wars sequels' WORST elements. 

Specifically:

Make sure your classic character(s) has/have been totally miserable and/or failures since they were last seen. Yes, even though it’s been at LEAST a decade, they should’ve been suffering the whole fucking time.

Erase at least one character's growth (or sometimes even their base character traits) entirely, resetting them back where they started in their first film (or, alternatively, rendering them unrecognizable). 

Kill off some of those legacy characters ASAP to ensure they have no hope of ever achieving the happy ending you once promised/implied.

Work in obvious repeats of prior movies’ events and scenes so the audience can be like “Oooh, I remember when they said/did that in the other movies,” resulting in them feeling like they’re in on something and are therefore validated.

In fact... maybe just copy/paste the entire plot from an earlier entry? No surprises means MAXIMUM NOSTALGIA.

These things were all present in The Force Awakens and even repeated for The Last Jedi. But they wound up just being pioneers of a shitty trend.

Some examples:

Terminator: Dark Fate

Ghostbusters Afterlife

The Matrix Resurrections

Scream (2022)

Clerks III

The degree of the severity of these things varies, at least. Maybe not every single legacy character has been completely miserable since we last saw them; it might be only some or even just one of them. I’ll also grant Ghostbusters Afterlife that killing off Egon was the only reasonable choice available to them. Situations like these can help soften the blow... and for those reasons, I don’t hate ALL of the movies I just listed. There’s even one or two I kinda like!

But make no mistake: All of the above lessons/tropes are still shitty ones. The legacy of the Star Wars sequels (TFA most specifically) is still a damning one. I honestly believe that ALL the movies I cited would all be better off if they hadn’t taken ANY cues from TFA’s template.