I was wondering about what you said yesterday about the different places after death (hell and empty) and Rachel miner confirmed she was invited and didn't want to take risks because of her health state. But the only way for her to be in episode after 15.18 would have been 15.19 as the empty. What do you think? Do you know something more about that?
It's really frustrating all of this. I would like that they talk to us about all the changes but in the same time I understand them with all the hostility in the fandom...
Thank you :)
Hi!
I don’t know the exact details as to when the Empty and Hell were going to be cleaned up or how, just that Rachel, Ruth, and others were supposed to return to film in order to clean up the afterlife.
I also know that the Empty was originally conceived of and written as a place of peaceful sleep. BL decided that it was even worse than hell, which pissed off the other writers because that’s not what they wanted at all.
I don’t ask if what was originally written involved returning the Empty to the state it was supposed to be before BL got their dirty paws on it, or if it was written in a different way. I am dying to know, but I don’t want to be annoying and pester people with questions.
Part of the reason the writers aren’t publicly talking about it is because the writers who came up with the original ending (Berens and Glynn) had their original ending torn to shreds by BL & Dabb. They don’t want to throw their bosses under the bus because it will harm their future employment.
I’m hoping for a tell-all book down the road. I suspect Misha will also talk more at the next convention now that people who know the actors say he’s unlikely to do more acting, but he might want to keep that option open.
so ep20 was supposed to look more like ep300 with John and Mary and Cas in some alternate version for two minutes... Man this is why I hate Dabb so much
I noticed that the Destiel Truthers kept spinning this idea that episode 300 only ended up that way because J2 demanded JDM be treated well, but I don’t get that impression from Dabb’s writing.
It’s actually one of the things that bothers me the most about Dabb’s writing because he places a lot of blame on Sam for leaving Dean/his family to go to Stanford, but he also writes John as abusive to Sam.
He wrote this comic Beginning’s End about Sam leaving the same time he wrote Dark Side of the Moon. Yes, the comics aren’t official canon, but he wrote both episodes and it gives you insight into what Dabb thinks about John.
Lots of images below the cut
In the comic, John hits Sam when he’s mad at him
Later, John passes out drunk and there’s no food in the house, so Sam goes out and steals money to buy a hot dog.
Sam returns and John eats Sam’s hot dog. It ends with John shooting Sam.
There’s a frequent theme of Sam leaving and returning. John treats Sam like dirt and keeps provoking him into running away.
Dean begs John to show Sam how much he loves him. But John refuses because he wants Sam to grow up hard.
It’s more important to John to raise Sam as a ruthless warrior than to show him love.
Sam leaves and Dean chases after Sam
Now I don’t blame Dean at all for feeling the way he does, but I don’t like how Dabb writes Dean as guilting Sam for wanting to leave an obviously abusive situation.
If you think Dabb’s John treats Dean better, he doesn’t.
But he’s still portrayed very sympathetically.
In the 300 commentary, Dabb talks about how Dean looks at his father, this man who fucked up, and sees a man who loved his family. He sees a man who did terrible things out of love.
The point of John being there is for Dean to forgive himself for what happened with Michael.
If Dean can look at his father and forgive him, then Dean can also forgive himself. 300 is a huge step forward for Dean. Dean went from
To
Which is such character growth and I LOVE IT SO MUCH!!!
I love seeing Dean happy with who he is. This was a huge moment for him and I’m very glad to see it, but I feel that Dabb went too dark with John, which makes the lighter moments harder to believe.
I feel that Dabb went too dark with Dean as well. It’s kinda funny because the Carver era has Dean overtly dark, but in that era, he’s clearly under the MoC and he’s trying to do what’s right.
Dabb era has Dean much more lighthearted and goofy most of the time, but also torturing without hesitation. Dean pulls a gun on a kid and tries to kill Jack multiple times, even after calling him family. He’s cruel to Castiel and says a lot of nasty shit to him.
And I get what the writers were trying to do. In s13, we were supposed to see Dean becoming John. Jensen said that he thought Dean would become more like his father as time went on. That’s part of why he adopted the deeper voice.
I understand why Dean’s angry in 14 and 15. I understand that Dean reacts to fear with anger. I spend a lot of time defending Dean, but I don’t like how he’s written because I feel that we used to see that fear under Dean’s rage.
I personally feel that Dabb swung too hard into the anger for both John and Dean. Jack loves and adores Dean, even though Dean treated Jack like shit. We want Jack to be with Dean in a happy family again, even after Dean tried to kill Jack on multiple occasions.
I suspected that John and Mary would be in Dean’s heaven because I feel that’s how Dabb writes that relationship.
