Want me to write an essay about entitled fans of fanon couples and how annoyed I am? Here I am. I don’t expect anyone to actually read it all or even respond, I just want to vent.
I’ll use “mlw” for any ship that involves a man and a woman to avoid having to specify all possible orientations, wlw for two women and mlm for two men.
And just to be clear, before anyone replies that there isn’t enough lgbt-ness in shows and it must be fought for, I agree. But this is not about them, it’s about entitled fans of all fanon ships who are now following a specific script to get what they want, harassing and hiding behind social justice issues.
The only reason I especially mention shippers who are into 2 famous fanon wlw couples (supercorp and swanqueen) is that it’s the same group of shippers moving from one big show to another, picking over and over the same type of female character to pair with the female hero, and projecting. But this behavior happens with mlw ships as well and mlm ships and it’s not about representation at all. We all know shippers who wanted the guy to get the girl even if she canonically dislikes him, and that meant wanting the good guy she actually loves dead, making up horrible accusations against the canon partner and the writers because the other guy should win. Or those shows were two men are shipped together and therefore the fans call for all the women in their lives to be gone, they are evil, they are badly written, whatever.
I heard a mess happened in Star Wars, people shipping a mlw couple and getting the movie to change, and I have been told 99,99% of Supernatural female characters had to die because the fans hated anyone who took attention away from Dean/Sam and Dean/Castiel, but I don’t know if it’s true and I don’t know enough about those fandoms to speak about it, so I’ll only talk about what I’ve been a part of. I can’t anti-tag properly or it will appear in their ship tag.
Again, I’m not talking about fans advocating for more representation in general, I’m talking about fans who are harassing real people because they want the couple they chose to be canon or to be treated as such no matter what the writers clearly mean to convey and how the show has been written up until then, or even if the show is already very pro-lgbt with non cis and non straight characters in the main cast since it’s all irrelevant to them, because what these fans really want is control over other people and their stories, and to make their fave couple (genders are irrelevant), the couple where they are obviously projecting their feelings and themselves, become canon, and they are using real life issues as a tool to get it because how can ‘silence’ someone fighting against sexism/racism/homophobia etc (and obviously it’s not what’s happening. I’m not talking about people who are right and denuncing racism, for example), because they know that mixing what they want with what is politically correct, even if it’s not true, will give them a platform, an audience of innocent people trying to find out what’s happening there, and may force a show in a different direction. Forget the fact that people who actually fight for social issues will lose credibility and the chance to make a change, the important thing is that they get what they want, how they want it, and because they want it.
If their ship is not made canon everybody will have to pay - and regardless of canon-ness these ships must be always be discussed by writers and cast as ‘equally important to the canon ships’, and these ‘fans’ are blatantly feeling good and cool about being able to harass the cast and other people because they are teaching them a lesson. I mean literally gloating about it in their posts.
And it’s scary that new, young, shippers are join fandoms and to groups where they can start feeling a sense of belonging, and these groups directly and indirectly teach them to be as extreme and rigid as possible in their beliefs, and they lead each member, step by step, into finding these behaviors normal, acceptable, and in fact also lead them to mix their own identity and beliefs with the group’s beliefs. These groups of ‘bad apple’s trajectory is towards becoming more and more extreme because each new person who joins in takes one more step away from what’s acceptable, because they feel that everything that has happened before their arrival is justified and righteous and to them the next step is very small, even if it’s a giant distance from where fandoms were at before.
*note: brief mention of rape/abuse because I mention non-canon accusations that happened in the ouat fandom + the fact that it did happen in the canon show. I mention other issues that are used against/to defend ships as well without getting descriptive, and a mention of suicidal thoughts brought up by antis once.
Honestly I feel like shippers who act entitled on social media became this way because, among other reasons, the writers and casts of tvshows were overly nice to them and not allowed to say ‘enough, I’ll block you if you insult me’ or even a simple ‘we are only celebrating canon couples, fanon combinations are infinite and we can’t address them all, so we won’t be talking about those’. Instead they had to be as nice as possible, whether it was because they didn’t want to alienate fans and lose money or because they genuinely cared doesn’t matter in this context. More often than not it’s just because they are being taught that if they don’t say yes they’ll be ‘cancelled’ by fans who are using real life issues and criminalizing actors, and they also know that nobody will dare backing them up to avoid getting in trouble with the network, or with whoever is telling them that the customer/fan is always right.
You can’t tell a customer to go the hell if you are working at Starbucks and even less so in public, like on twitter, because good luck getting hired if you treat fans like ‘crap’. Doesn’t matter that they deserve it, people in charge want money and the money comes from all people watching the show, nobody should be pushed away by an actor who is trying to protect their mental health by standing up to bullies, the actor has to smile and wish them a nice day like a Starbucks cashier and allow more abuse, so that the customer will return. There are some exceptions, some people are allowed to respond, just like some cashiers can, but it’s not the norm.
The norm is now writers walking on eggshells because how dare them say their story is their damn story. It’s actors not allowed to have an opinion or to explain what they are trying to portray because they will ruffle feathers.
So this teaches these fans to keep going, and the more these fans gain approval the more the writers and cast bend.
I remember Jennifer Morrison during ouat retweeting a fan who made, if I’m not wrong, tea-bags which were dedicated to the canon couple she was part of, and she, as a real person, was accused of supporting rape culture because antis had decided that her character’s canon boyfriend was a rapist, even if it wasn’t shown on screen (but he made references to sex! and is a pirate! so he had to be!) and therefore JMo showing that she liked her canon ship meant that she was pro-rape, not exactly a light accusation. Then they proceded to harass her so she’d say how much she liked the tea dedicated to their fanon couple - (involving a female canon rapist just to add irony). And to be clear given the nature of her job Jen wasn’t allowed to say she didn’t like that ship, because that would hurt their feelings, wasn’t allowed to say it’s a fanon ship and that she wanted to discuss canon things, wasn’t even allowed to ignore it, she’d be attacked even more than she already was.
Hell, she was accused of homophobia (and of gay panic by people who clearly don’t know what that means) because she didn’t pose for photos with the other actress they shipped her with often enough (they shipped her character Emma with Regina, who was played by Lana Parilla, and shipped her with Lana), nor did enough offscreen things with her. It was clear that Jen and Lana weren’t close in real life and that the fans made it worse - but why would it matter how they feel as people, right? They had to dance like moneys for the fans. If Jen didn’t sit close to Lana it had to be because she hated that the fans would ship them or their fanon couple, not because as a human she has preferences. (Btw, if people are being weird about you and your coworker, it’s totally fine to feel uncomfortable and step away).
Sounds familiar, if you are from the Supergirl fandom? It’s the same people, yeah. The ones I mentioned at the beginning of this post. That’s why I said that it’s not ‘lgbt fans’ it’s literally the same people over and over, they just happen to project on wlw couples. But there are other fans like this as well and they have their own mlm and mlw couples to harass people for.
The Supergirl cast was literally harassed by fans who wanted Kara and Lena together. Eventually during a group interview they sang about how Kara and Lena were just friends and had a laugh, which btw is a great way to fight bullies, to let them know their words can’t hurt them and they will be laughed off, and, as far as I know, to this day people who don’t know the behind the scenes will only hear that the cast of Supergirl mocked a lesbian fanon couple and its lgbt fans, cruelly, laughing at them for daring to ship two women. Homophobic monsters. All except the actress who plays Lena who was visibly upset (in the story of course, in reality she laughed too). Several public apologies had to be made to make up for this evil act. They weren’t allowed to explain or defend themselves after (because of the new rule that if someone is hurt by your behavior, explaining yourself means you aren’t apologing and you are abusive).
They had to take in more abuse and shut up. Real life consequences that started from abusive tweets going unpunished and made them risk reputation and jobs, as well as led to actually lgbt people who may have looked up to them being told what ‘they had done’ and be hurt by this. Context didn’t matter, even if it’s al that actually matters because it completely changes what you saw.
People genuinely believed/believe the cast was that horrible and that was cruel out of nowhere, more people have joined the fandom and bought into it, confirming their own bias whenever they watched the show and saw only what they wanted to see.
So these fans got to demand attention and to have the writers change the show for the loudest fanon ships, and to insult anyone who doesn’t feel like doing so. Not only unpunished for this but sorta rewarded for it. Sure, some shows didn’t cave and didn’t make their ships canon, but the cast had to learn how to be submissive or accept online abusive behavior. OR leave social media in a world where you need it to work, like many were forced to do. And these fans got told over and over that their feelings were ‘valid’, their ships amazing, and got even angrier because if that’s the case why not make it canon? Or got told ‘not going to happen’ and started spreading the notion that there was queerbaiting and the show should be boicotted.
This is becoming a common way to react to all shows/movies with sequels, these shows are an example and in a way the place where it started and grew, but now it’s everywhere.
And I want to take the writers and say: just make a ship canon because you want to or tell them it’s not going to happen and stand by it, no more of that ‘equally valid, equally important, have to entertain all shippers’ crap. A fanon ship is not going to be equal to canon ones, it shouldn’t get equally talked about nor be included in every sentence about ships, and there is nothing to apologize for about that. It only exists in these small online places, you go talk to casual viewers and they won’t know of it, it’s not the same. And while we should all have more representation we don’t get to chose which characters get together, we don’t get to write the story.
Shippers should learn to handle the truth if they haven’t yet, learn how to handle disappointment, like get a ‘you can ship who you want, it’s amazing you are so invested in our show! However x and y are the canon ship and we don’t plan on making the other one canon, I’m writing x and y together’ and leave it at that. And it should be more than possible to just say ‘this is not what I’m writing, I’m sorry’ if fans insist they are being baited because two characters look at each other.
“You ship isn’t canon, it will never be canon, they told you this! So no, shippers of that fanon couple don’t matter now, they are talking about canon and your fanon ship shouldn’t be up there with the others’ “Telling me that I don’t matter because I demand to have my fanon ship constantly brought up is triggering me and making me suicidal, everybody matters all the time!’ is a take I actually read and people apologized for how ‘harsh’ they were being.
The concept there was that you can never tell a person they don’t matter in a specific context, they have to matter, in all contexts. You don’t know how much of their identity and will to live a person has attached to a ship or a fandom, and you don’t get to say those words because they may be too fragile to take it (forget the fragility of those bullied every day by these people who can’t take consequences or the truth).
Except that there are plenty situations in life in which you won’t matter, and that doesn’t mean that you don’t matter as a person in general. Your neighbor won’t have to think about your feelings on divorce before getting one, you don’t matter there. You still matter as a human being, in general, your life still has meaning, but you won’t and shouldn’t always be acknowledged in every situation that exists around you. And if you can’t understand this concept, if you think your opinion has to matter in all contexts and you have to be given some kind of shake of hand over it or your entire life won’t matter, because you must be important in every context ever, you shouldn’t be engaging in fandoms, you should be getting medical help asap, not making your ability to exist more fragile because it’s dependent on strangers validating you over a ship. You are putting your entire existence in the hands of a fandom, and that’s not only unhealthy but impossible to end well. Go to therapy and if you can’t afford that yet then don’t become a part of groups that require you to tie your identity to them.
Your feelings matter in the sense that you can ship what you want, not that you have the right to demand a response or approval from other actual human beings.
My feeling that Jemma and Fitz from AoS (super beloved couple by fans and writers) are terrible for each other means a lot to me, I’ve been super invested for years in that show, wrote essays on why I don’t like this couple (and tagged them properly to respect the shippers), but you know what? This means nothing to the writers and that’s okay. I’m not important to them, I should not expect to have my feelings catered to with tweets that mention fanon couples I like and that ‘acknowledge’ flaws I see.
I didn’t harass anyone on twitter, and I certainly don’t think that if I had shipped Jemma with someone else I should have been mentioned in canon-related tweets because ‘every ship is valid’! I didn’t expect fanon couples like Will and Alice or Flynn and Lucy (OUATIW and Timeless) to be mentioned everywhere just because some people loved them and therefore we had to be catered to: I shipped it but I sure as hell didn’t expect to make it real or to change the entire creative process of the people behind the show because I was screaming about it. I don’t expect people to pat my head and tell me what a lovely ship it is and discuss it every time is brought up on twitter.
But the majority of writers/casts is trying to be submissive now so they don’t get in trouble and you can literally see posts of fanon shippers laughing about how they are in the right and they will be able to break them.
And personally I think these shippers deserve actual real life consequences. No attention to your ship, which wasn’t real anyway, less screentime for it, more direct responses with ‘nope not gonna happen’ and ‘I made it, they are not real people, you can read in that scene what you want but know that’s not what I’m making it and therefore it’s not real’. No actors trying to make these people feel better. They don’t need to apologize for ships not happening or for not shipping them or for wanting to talk about their actual work.
People will survive even if the writers don’t tell them just how important and incredible their fanon ship is, even more so because you are not teaching them that this is a correct way to interact with the world and they’ll learn not to expect anything. They have to learn that they may not get what they want even if they ask nicely, and that regardless of that they cannot harass people. They also have to learn that crying wolf by using very real dramatic issues like homophobia and misoginy should have consequences, I’ll say it again: if you publicly accuse me of being pro-rape because I like something made for a fiction couple I get to take you to court.
Also the bullshit of ‘oh my god those mean adult men in the cast are ganging up against a teenager’ said about adult men responding without sugarcoating (but also without insulting) to the hundreth ‘teenager’ who is insulting them, part of a group of people who insults them daily. Teenagers learn how to be adults also by learning consequences to their actions and that they don’t get to say everything they want the way they want, shouldn’t we reinforce this? Or should we let bullies free to online-harass adults every hour of every day?
In the end Supergirl the cast by the end was so blatantly pissed to the point that some of them started snapping again, possibly because a guest star kickstarted it (sometimes you need one person to speak up and then others can), and those shippers didn’t get their ship to be made canon, thankfully, because it was way too unreal, but they still got treated better than they deserved. They learned that they can get something if they behave like that, and have the hope that doing worse will get them more.
And I honestly want to go back to writers and cast interacting less with us, to less twitter, less socials, because even if it sucks to lose that privilege it’s better than to let it become a tool in the hands of abusive people. If people can’t, as a group, learn how to use something responsibly, and the people giving it to them are not allowed to react properly, then that something has to be taken away from them.
It’s ruining shows, literally, because usually these people have misread, willingly or by accident, everything from story to characters, and to cater to them means that whatever you were doing following your instincts and making a linear story will get messed up, the story will get out of track, the characters will be weird.
I just wish that the networks and all people involved realized just how very few these people are, how their behavior pushes away actual viewers, how it’s not necessarity to take it with a smile so they don’t lose money, and instead all agreed that there can be consequences to their actions. Fans make threats or claim that someone is -racist/homophobic/sexist/pro rape- without proof? they get sued for threats/diffamation. Fans gets graphic about their sex fantasies involving two coworkers? They get sued for sexual harassment. Fans bully? they get shut down. They are told the truth.
I’d respect and watch a show more if that was an option.
CaptainSwan is Toxic aka When SQ takes stuff out of context
I’m taking up the torch of debunking more stupid hate directed toward Emma & Killian. Especially since one of them just recently sent me a blog post claiming CaptainSwan is more toxic than Swanqueen. No. No it isn’t.
And since SwanQueen claims the two of them were in love in S1... and since they use Villain Hook and Dark Hook ... I’m including times Regina was still full on villain.
Claim 1
Hook [to Emma, before leaving her in a cage to starve and die] This is a symbol. Something that was once magical, full of hope, possibility... Now look at it. Dried up, dead, useless... much like you. The time for making deals is done, just as I'm done... with you.
Villain Hook. They weren’t together & she’d just betrayed him. No one is claiming that they fell in love, true love, at first sight.
Also you wanna talk about how Regina destroyed Emma’s entire childhood and tried to murder her? NEXT
Claim 2
Hook [to Emma, while entrapping her on the floor] Normally, I prefer to do other more enjoyable activities with a woman on her back. With my life on the line, you've left me no choice. When I jab you with my sword, you’ll feel it.
And more villain Hook before they were together. Yeah he was being a cocky arse trying to throw her off balance. If he’d said this after his redemption and while they were together then I’d listen. But as for right now?
You wanna talk about Regina ordering a man to her bed chambers & actually committing sexual assault on him for 28 years?
Wanna talk about Regina’s line y’all salivate over “Now how to get the savior to taste my forbidden fruit?” - Regina plotting murder. NEXT
Claim 3
Snow [to Hook] You’re a pirate. You know which way the wind blows, and, right now, it is gusting towards us.
Hook, while licking his lips suggestively I see where your daughter got her gumption.
OMG a man flirting with a woman. The horror.
Wanna talk about how Regina tried to seduce David which would’ve been rape if she’d succeeded? NEXT
Claim 4
Hook *violently pushes Emma out of the way so he can stab Rumplestiltskin*
I love the violently part. Adds an extra touch there. LOL. Yeah he shoved her. He’s made it clear no one stands between him and his revenge on Rumple. He was an evil villain. Also... they still weren’t together.
Wanna talk about when Regina punched Emma? OUT OF JEALOUSY!?
Want to talk about the time Regina choked Emma?
How about that time she threw Emma down her walkway? NEXT
Claim 5
Hook [to Emma, as they climb the beanstalk] You know, most men would take your silence as off-putting, but I love a challenge.
Emma I'm concentrating.
Hook No, you're afraid. Afraid to talk, to reveal yourself, to trust me. Things will be a lot smoother if you do.
OH GOSH THE HORROR! He’s speaking to her. I just... wow. WOW.
Wanna talk about how Regina used the dagger while Emma begged her not to as she tried to force Emma to reveal something to her that Emma didn’t want to talk to Regina about? NEXT
Claim 6
David [to Hook] You're here for Emma. And let me tell you something. You’re never gonna get her. I’ll see to that.
Hook It’s a good thing you’re gonna to die then.
Yep he was being an ass. But it’s also not abuse. And Hook tried to warn David against revealing what had happened because he knew David wasn’t ready to tell his secret nor did he want to take credit.
Wanna talk about how Regina plotted to murder Emma and her family? NEXT
Claim 7
Emma [to Hook, after saving David's life] Thank you.
Hook, while tapping his lips suggestively Um... Perhaps gratitude is in order now.
Emma That's what the "thank you" was for.
Hook That's all your father's life is worth to you?
OH THE HORROR MORE FLIRTING! Just admit it that you hate men and move on. Y’all usually claim that this is him forcing her... where’s the forcing? He’s TEASING. Emma decides to give into her desires and she kisses him of her own free will. Stop trying to remove Emma’s agency as if she can’t think for herself.
Want to talk about how Regina demanding thanks after hurting Emma with the dagger? Wanna talk about how Regina demanded they all accept her into the group the moment she decided to stop murdering so she could get a happy ending? She thought that should be enough after her decades of abuse when it wasn’t. NEXT
Claim 8
Hook [to Emma] When I win your heart, Emma, and I will win it, it will not be because of any trickery. It will be because you want me.
Emma This isn't a contest, Hook.
Hook Isn't it? You're gonna have to choose, Emma. You realize that, don't you? Because neither one of us is gonna give up.
Oh gosh it’s a 300 year old pirate declaring his intentions. EVERYONE RUN! He’s very clearly stating that he isn’t going to deceive her. That he has a code. That he wouldn’t let a man die just to have her... because he wants her to want him of her own free will. He is, after all, in this for the long haul. And he meant it.
Wanna talk about the times Regina blackmailed Emma with the dagger into saving Robin’s life when Emma could have fallen into darkness forever? NEXT
Claim 9
Hook [to Emma] Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad to hear that.
Emma You're glad to hear I had my heart broken?
Hook If it can be broken, it means it still works.
He’s talking about her walls. He’s happy she hasn’t completely walled her heart off again to where she doesn’t feel a thing. He’s happy she hasn’t completely retreated.
Wanna talk about how Regina made Emma doubt her capabilities and told her “seems like the savior needs saving these days”? NEXT
Claim 10
Hook [to Emma] If I didn’t know any better, I’d say you’re trying to get me drunk, which is usually my tactic.
OMG IT IS A MAN FLIRTING WITH A WOMAN WHOSE FLIRTING WITH HIM! Someone call 911!
Now this one I know is accompanied by haters of Killian Jones claiming he’s boasting to Emma that he’s a serial rapist. Which is absurd. It’s even more absurd to believe that’s the case and that Emma wouldn’t react to it.
Does he sleep with a lot of women? MAYBE. He talks a big game but we’ve only ever seen him care deeply for two women and we’ve seen him pay off a pre-paid hooker when his heart was wrapped around Emma Swan’s finger even though she was in a different realm and he’d likely never see her again.
Regina slept with a lot of men and raped one for 28 years. She’s the only rapist here but hey lets delve deeper into this.
1) We see him matching Emma drink for drink (or so he thinks). He thinks she’s as drunk as he is. We see him drinking with other females. The show portrays him as someone who likes to drink and drink with other people. This is not a crime. He DOES NOT say he remains sober and gets women drunk. In fact...
2) Women and too drunk for sex while I’m sober is not in that line and is not what is being portrayed.
3) An off handed comment like this is not an admission of rape nor does it equal rape.
4) We see Killian walking away from Milah when they first met. We see Killian give Emma a couple of chances to back out. He isn’t forcing anything.
5) He paid off a pre-paid hooker... to be honest ... if the show wanted to portray him as a rapist they did a pretty lousy job.
You can’t use your opinion or your own twisting of words or inserting your own meaning into them as canon proof something happened. It’s only canon if the author has shown it to us. And the only canon rapists on Once Upon a Time are Regina, Zelena, Gothel and likely Rumple and depending on how you view statutory rape... Neal.
Claim 11
Hook [to Emma, while grabbing her and unwantedly pressing her to him] What do you say we set sail? Come back with me for a nightcap.
Emma *tries to wiggle free from Hook's grip*
Hook Or shall I find someone else?
Oh look it’s him giving her an out! And unwantedly? The woman is flirting with him and even has her hand on his leg. Give me a freakin break. Never mind that he backs down.
Wanna talk about Regina’s unwanted sexual advances on him in the Enchanted Forest? Again, Regina has actually committed assault. She’s punched Emma, even. And tortured her. NEXT
Claim 12
Emma The Snow Queen came here looking for blondes. There’s a lot more than just me.
Hook Don’t I know it.
Uh yeah he went looking for her in New York? I... ok.. whatever
Wanna talk about how Regina wouldn’t let Emma leave Storybrooke alive & ended up nearly killing Henry? Or that time said “I should know better than to trust blondes?” NEXT
Claim 13
Hook [to Emma, as she tries to adjust her corset, which reveals some cleavage] Your discomfort is a cross I’m willing to bear.
Oh dear goodness how do we survive in a world where men flirt with women! This is also not abuse nor toxic. You guys are perfectly fine with two women enjoying how the other looks but oh goodness help us if its a man! Also, context. He knows she needs to be disguised so people won’t remember her which is important as it could change everything. Her discomfort is necessary, unfortunately.
You want to talk about how Regina didn’t give a damn about how Emma was feeling over Henry being kidnapped? She threw it back in her face. NEXT
Claim 14
Hook *unwantedly kisses Emma without permission*
Emma [to a police officer] This is the guy. The one who assaulted me.
Hook It was a kiss.
Emma There. He confessed.
Are we going to accuse Snowing of toxicity next? ::crickets:: Yeah figured. OK so yes, Killian Jones attempted a True Love’s Kiss and it failed because Emma Swan didn’t remember who he was. And she punched him for it. Honestly, good for her! Good for Snow too. However, intent matters. He wasn’t kissing her to gain something for himself or to intentionally cause her pain. He wasn’t doing it out of violence or maliciousness. He even had reason to hope that she felt as he did because she kissed him passionately, called on him for help and encouraged him to think of her every day. If he were to try this on Belle or Ariel or even Snow who never showed any romantic interest in him then this would be a totally different story. But he was trying to make Emma remember who she was so she could return with him to save her family. The show was intentionally paralleling Snowing here.
You wanna talk about how Regina decided to murder Emma’s wish parents in front of her and cause her emotional pain and distress to the point where she was crying her eyes out and begging for mercy? NEXT
Claim 15
Hook *unwantedly follows Emma around despite her numerous attempts to let him know she isn't interested*
This one is actually complete BULLSHIT since Emma called on him numerous times for help and even asked him to watch Henry. She was most definitely interested as she met with him in the cafe and everything.
Wanna talk about the time that Emma followed Regina around trying to be her friend and Regina threw it back in her face and made Emma feel like she was a bigger villain than Regina for SAVING A WOMAN’S LIFE? NEXT
Claim 16
Hook [to Emma] Swan. Don't make a man drink alone.
Emma, while trying to walk away from Hook Not in the mood for a drink or a man.
Hook *unwantedly goes after Emma* *uses his hook to turn Emma to face him* *unwantedly kisses Emma without permission again*
Are you guys for real? She’d kissed him three times now and pulled away. He has every right to ask her what is wrong. And stopping her is not abuse. Also, he did not kiss her without permission. She’d just said she was scared of losing him and then she kissed him back and put her arms around him.
You wanna talk about Regina throwing Emma down the driveway? NEXT
Claim 17
Hook [to Emma] Shall I order us some drinks?
Emma Not tonight.
Hook, while giving Emma a predatory look Why, love? You a bit worried you'll find me even more irresistible after a few libations?
Oh. oh no. He’s flirting again. WHAT ARE WE TO DO! Not a crime. Not abuse.
Wanna talk about how Regina tried to ply Emma with alcohol to make her talk about Killian leaving and Emma opening up to the bar tender instead? NEXT.
Claim 18
Emma *tries to go after Regina*
Hook *forcefully grabs Emma's arm to stop her*
Oh so pretty much every time he touches her is abuse? BULL SHIT. Also he says “nothing good ever comes from pushing that woman” (meaning Regina).
Wanna talk about that time Regina refused to listen to Emma about Henry and instead accused her of being jealous? NEXT
Claim 19
Emma *tells everybody to stay away from her due to unstable magic*
Hook *forcefully grabs Emma's arm anyway*
Oh my goodness heaven forbid he wants her to know he isn’t afraid of her ... Heaven forbid he show concern. Heaven forbid he wants her to know that she she doesn’t have to face this alone....
Where was Regina during this? Banging a dying woman’s husband & ignoring calls about Henry. NEXT
Claim 20
Hook [to Emma] I liked you the way you were. I liked your walls. I liked being the one to break them down.
Yeah that’s a sad scene. Also it’s not abuse to try and help someone through the pain of the past. It’s actually the opposite.
Wanna talk about how Regina screamed at her “you don’t get to act that way with me after what you’ve done!” As if Regina herself hasn’t done much much much worse but yet here she is acting self righteous with Emma? NEXT
Claim 21
Hook *threatens to jump off a roof while calling Emma's name to force her to appear and save him*
Yeah not abuse. Not under these circumstances which he was trying to get her to open up to him and tell him the truth. Dark CaptainSwan was not the healthiest but also wasn’t who they were outside of the darkness. If we were talking a show without magic and darkness then we could talk... context matters guys!
Wanna talk about how Regina yelled at Emma for saving her life in that fire? NEXT
Claim 22
Emma [to Hook] This is who I am now. Why can't you accept that? Why can't anyone accept that?
Hook Because this isn't you.
Not abuse. They’re both struggling with her being the dark one. He’s struggling even more since his arch enemy was also consumed by that evilness... the evilness was inside the man that took his heart to control him. And Dark Swan wasn’t Emma, either, not completely. She made a few choices our Emma wouldn’t have (like making Zelena the dark one and killing her).
Wanna talk about how Regina called Emma “stupid” and a “problem” and insisted she was going to destroy light magic? NEXT
Claim 23
Emma [to Hook] Do you love me? If you tell me you don't love me, I will let you go.
Hook I loved you.
He actually apologized for this and you have to look at the problem behind it: Emma is consumed by the same darkness that took his first love and set him on a path of misery.
Wanna talk about how Regina claimed Emma ruined her life and never had her back when Emma saved her from a mob? Twice? NEXT
Claim 24- Dark Hook BS
insert all of the quotes said by Dark Hook
Literally he was consumed by darkness that was fueling his rage. Killian Jones did not say this to Emma Swan. Dark Hook said it to Dark Swan. There is a difference between our Killian and the Killian consumed by evil.
Regina was never consumed by evil. Yet she told Emma “I want to hurt you. I want you to see how pointless you are.” NEXT
Claim 25
Hook *attempts to murder Emma’s son and entire family*
While consumed by ultimate evil and he was able to overcome that evil and instead sacrificed himself.
Regina has attempted the same. In fact, half of her tried again in S6 and Regina let Snowing face her other half... Emma could have lost her parents again and Regina did nothing. NEXT
Claim 26
Hook *insults Emma's son when he was just trying to help*
People get frustrated and lose their temper. If this had happened more than once I’d agree but it didn’t. No one is claiming anyone is perfect.
Wanna talk about the many many many times Regina has insulted Emma, her parents, friends and her boyfriend? Cause I’ve got the receipts! She downright bullies them and is quite the ableist when it comes to Killian’s handicap. NEXT.
Claim 27
Hook [to Emma] Are you really that desperate to avoid talking to me?
Emma I'm not avoiding you. It's just... I need to be alone.
Hook What the hell is going on with you?
Emma Nothing.
Hook You can lie to everyone else, but you can't lie to me.
Emma It's fine. I already asked you once to go.
Hook Right. Fine. No need to ask again.
Not abuse. Also, he listens to her request and walks away.. he waits for her to come to him.
Wanna talk about the time Regina said Emma was giving her a head ache? NEXT
Claim 28
Emma [to Hook] I have an appointment with Archie.
Hook Ah, you're still gonna see the cricket? I'm impressed.
Emma Did you think I was gonna back out?
Hook Well, you know, being vulnerable isn't exactly your strong suit.
What? It’s wrong to be proud of someone whose seeking help? When you know that person has a tendency to bottle it up and try to face it on their own?
Wanna talk about how Regina’s jealous rage caused Emma to be an orphan? NEXT
Claim 29
Hook *ignores Emma's plea for Archie not to reveal her secret in fron of her family and urges him to reveal it*
HAH this is more on Regina than it is on Killian since it was Regina’s evil half in disguise. The EQ is still Regina. She isn’t consumed by darkness. So.
Never mind that it isn’t a crime to be concerned for someone when something is clearly wrong. Killian asks. So does Henry. Emma grants their request. NEXT
Claim 30
The issues with CaptainSwan lying about her visions, the scissors and Killian not revealing his secret
Yes people lie to each other. Emma was lying to protect them. She says that. She was afraid of losing them. And Killian has every right to be upset that she isn’t confiding in him. A huge difference between his frustration & Regina’s is that Regina belittles Emma.... Killian does not. He doesn’t call her names, attack her ideas or call her stupid.
Not abuse and not toxic either. More like human.
About David’s father... If he was lying to hurt her then I’d understand but he wasn’t. He had fully intended to tell her about David’s father but couldn’t when he saw how happy she was. That secret literally ate him alive and he made the wrong choice. But we see the guilt, the remorse, the anger at himself... He owned that. Which is so very important.
He also did not abandon Emma without telling her... yes, he’d almost done so because he was so blinded by guilt that he thought it was what he needed to do... he’d seen how wrong he was and was on his way back to her to make everything right when he was pushed through a portal. Big difference there.
Lets talk about how Regina never owned murdering Graham even though Emma counts him as love lost? NEXT
Claim 31
Emma, when we met, there was just one thing that mattered to me... getting my revenge. You showed me that a heart full of love was the most precious treasure of all, and one that I don't intend to lose.
Hook, 15 minutes earlier *attacks Rumplestiltskin while his back is turned to him* *vows to take revenge on Rumplestiltskin*—
Oh noes. Oh noes. Oh how dare he try to stop a man that’s trying to kill them all.. again! How dare he take up for Emma against an evil villain! You all act like Rumple is an innocent man... he was betraying them. He was threatening Emma.
Wanna talk about how when Rumple threatened Emma & Robin, Regina ripped out an innocent woman’s heart and used her for blackmail? NEXT
CONCLUSION:
I think there’s this misconception that people need to be perfect and if they aren’t they’re toxic. When it comes to CaptainSwan the human aspect is removed and instead the focus is on a single moment instead of the whole picture.
The truth is CaptainSwan hit a literal dark patch in their relationship when they were both consumed by darkness. But that isn’t who they were. They both made mistakes but they’ve both apologized for it. Which is important. Even more importantly, Killian Jones and Emma Swan worked through their differences and in the end stood strong about their belief in each other. They were there to support one another. Killian always put her first. Emma was always ready to see the best in him. They did make each other better.
The truth is that Regina was never a good person even after she stopped killing people. In fact, she stopped killing for purely selfish gain and not to make things right. She joined Team Hero so that she could have her happy ending. She never once mentions the pain she caused her victims, even to Snowing when they lose their daughter a second time. It’s always all about her and her pain and her happiness. Regina’s sarcasm, insults and rudeness reflects how she sees herself as far superior to Emma and the others. She was a constant bully throughout all 6 seasons and not for just a few episodes like Dark Hook or when he was a villain. That’s the difference. She blamed everyone else for her bad choices. She stole Emma’s agency, used the dagger on her and tortured her. Then demanded thanks. Regina actually destroyed Emma’s childhood and has said she doesn’t regret it. Regina murdered a man Emma cared for and never told her.
it's really difficult to understand what the haters are saying most of the time
I’m using a new fandumb translator. And this is what I was able to gather from what I've read so far. Translation: “blahblahblahblah, men suck, Emma should be gay because we say so. It’s not the writers show, it’s our show. Get H00k off it. We don’t like him. Killing in your past makes you unforgivable, unless your name is Regina. Killing grandparents makes you unforgivable, unless your name is Regina. We’re the only fans that count. Give us what we want or we’ll bitch some more.” That’s what I can make out so far. The rest is all a jumble.
If Regina Mills stans had any self-awareness they’d realize that the last bullet point in the screen capped post below gives away their hypocrisy (the red text is my commentary):
Yes, Killian was a villain. Yes, he did some bad things. However, the above post suggests that men’s crimes can’t be forgiven, yet Regina Mills, being a woman, her crimes do not even matter.
A short list of Regina’s offenses in no particular order:
✓ Cursed an entire kingdom - No regrets
✓ Slaughtered villages of men, women & children - No regrets, no remorse, no apologies
✓ Kept her vault of hearts - No regrets, remorse or attempting to right her wrongs
✓ Killed Snow’s father - Didn’t apologize, no regrets
✓ Killed her own father - She regretted this one but that’s b/c it involved her
✓ Ruined Snow’s life - Took magic for Regina’s 2nd half to apologize after 6 yrs. Too little too late.
✓ Framed Snow for murder - Probably sad she didn’t get away with it. Never apologized. No regrets.
✓ Imprisoned a black man in a mirror, made him do her dirty work & confess to crimes he didn’t commit. - Ouch
✓ Abused Henry - Instead of acknowledging it she called it “not supporting him” - She gaslit him which is abuse
✓ Tried to murder Emma as a baby - Doesn’t regret it because:
✓ Orphaned Emma - Didn’t regret it b/c it got her Henry. Never apologized.
✓ Raped & Murdered Graham - Never paid for it. No regret. Never told Emma who counts him as love lost.
✓ Orphaned Owen/Greg - Blamed him. Never regretted it.
✓ Threw Killian off a cliff -Still blames him for HER VICTIM seeking revenge on her
✓ Locked Belle up for years & ripped her heart out to use as leverage against Gold - Did she apologize? Leave the quote & episode # in the comments.
✓ Sent children to the blind witch to be murdered - Never paid for it. No remorse.
✓ Let Percival die - She didn’t care that she was the cause because she was too busy worried about HER happiness
✓ Killed Marian & never told Robin - Didn’t regret it & got to keep her man. Murder pays if you’re Regina!
✓ Tortured Emma in the Wish Realm - Blamed Emma & made her thank her for it
✓ Murdered Wish Snowing & later called it a mistake - got away with it & didn’t really care it got her WishHenry
✓ Left Hansel & Gretel, two children, to wander the forest alone b/c they rejected her - Doesn’t care
✓ Was going to let Hansel & Gretel leave knowing something terrible would happen to them. - no remorse
✓ Murdered a groom cause she was having a bad day - Only regrets it b/c her crimes kept her from her HEA
✓ Attempted to murder Emma & the Charmings for 2 seasons - Never paid for it & never apologized either
If a person, no matter their gender, can do all of this and be considered good enough... then so can Killian Jones whose list of crimes are nowhere near this long or anywhere near the magnitude of Regina’s.
And just for kicks... these are not crimes but just Regina Mills being a jerk:
✓ Nearly got David killed & stranded in Neverland - She wouldn’t listen to anyone else
✓ Didn’t care about the Snow Queen until it became her problem
✓ Got Robin killed b/c she wouldn’t listen to anyone else
✓ Gave Robin’s child to her evil sister and her evil boyfriend against his wishes - never listens to anyone
✓ Was a coward & let the Charmings face her evil half when she should have been the one to
✓ Pushed Emma closer to the darkness - b/c all she thought about was HER happiness.
✓ Vilified Emma for saving woman’s life - Regina’s fault & she never apologized
✓ Hell the entire Marian fiasco was Regina behaving badly -She never never apologized or owned up to it.
✓ Didn’t care she hurt Emma with the dagger - Her response was literally “whatever”
✓ She continues to be verbally abusive to everyone
So. Which side has the bar set too low?
At least Killian faced his victims, showed remorse & sacrificed his life. He was tortured & still believed he deserved to be punished even more. Regina was tortured by her victim and was the reason he became a villain but she had no self-awareness to consider that maybe she deserved it?
If you think a verbally abusive character is better than one that’s proven they’ve had a true change of heart then you’re bar is way too low. Regina believed that she was owed her victims trust & owed happiness just because she stopped killing people (but never stopped wanting to - S5x22) . Regina never showed remorse for her actions unless it was about her own happy ending, she never paid for any of her crimes, never faced her victims, and she never made a sacrifice. Therefore Regina did not have satisfactory redemption arc.
So you don't want LGBT representation you want swanqueen representation. At least be honest about what you want and stop acting like you have some noble cause.
There is a reason I don't want the Emma Regina friendship to be played up as more than it is. Let me tell you a story. I grew up with very few friends, I was the quiet kid that was was a little awkward around people and didn't like to talk much. Every time I became friends with someone they would leave me for someone else, usually finding out that they would start talking behind my back and hurting me very bad. I was always around that type of people who would be extremely extroverted to the point of swallowing you up and leaving you with nothing. The type of people who would talk sit about everyone, even the people they would call friends as well. And for some time they made me do the same because I thought that was the norm, I thought that if I wanted to survive emotionally in had to do the same. So I became that person that would walk around like a follower of the big deals and I lost a lot because of that. When I realised what I was doing I was disgusted with myself. I later found that one friend who I now call my sister. We are so close that sometimes I feel like if our lives were a book or a TV show people would ship us as a lesbian couple. This makes me uncomfortable because neither of us is lesbian or bisexual. And this is why I'm not fast to ship people who share screen time together as more than they show me. People can have deep meaningful relationships without the romantic stuff and I feel like romanticising every friendship diminishes that. This person who is more than a friend to me is why I can't buy the friendship between Emma and Regina. I know what real friendship looks like. And while it is about saving them from bad choices sometimes and guiding them to the right direction, it isn't about controlling them literally or calling them stupid or continuously disrespecting them and their family. These are also the reasons I don't like how Regina progressed after s3. I had started to like her back then and I was ready to love her because I thought she could evolve beautifully, but I never saw that. She regressed and for me stayed there for a long time. She kept insulting everyone but Henry and Robin and disregarding them and their needs. She just reminds me of all those people who made me hate myself so much a few years ago and this is so very personal for me that I have to see something very big from her to change my mind
