My goal here isn't to change minds but to combat the misinformation and false accusations against CaptainSwan. I enjoy defending them against those that seek to destroy them. This is where you'll find the truth about Once Upon a Time.
Killian Jones vs Regina Mills - How they treat Emma Comparison
I love how much Killian Jones supports Emma Swan and a lot of the times it is in direct comparison to the way Regina Mills treats her. And the fact that Emma is forced to put up with the woman truly sucks.
Things to keep in mind while reading this post:
I do not ship Villain Hook with Emma. I didn’t ship them until I started to see Killian working towards being a better man. Which was in Neverland.
Yes, Killian gave into the darkness and allowed it to manipulate him. For that he is guilty. However, I recognize that he was consumed by an evil dark force that was manipulating him for its own purposes and that Dark Hook is NOT the man Killian was becoming nor is Killian anything like Dark Hook after he rejects the darkness and sacrifices his life.
Regina on the other hand was never consumed by darkness. Her actions and cruelty are hers and hers alone. She was not being manipulated or controlled by a powerful source. She’s just cruel because she likes it. She has 0 excuse for her bad behavior throughout the series.
I despise Emma & Regina’s friendship. It is toxic and one sided. So everything here is spoken in terms of the toxicity of their friendship vs the true love of Killian’s Jones. I have an issue with Regina, period. Or toxic relationships.
Regina is not being sarcastic. When someone is sarcastic they’re making a joke in fun. And other people usually laugh. Notice how none of the other characters are laughing? Because it isn’t funny. And it isn’t funny because of her tone… her tone suggests that she means it. She’s isn’t saying it to be cute or get a laugh. She’s saying it to cut people down!
Because Regina has zero excuse for being a horrible person, there are things she’s done or said that are inexcusable because she never sought forgiveness or paid any price.
Regina destroyed Emma’s childhood and has said two different times that she doesn’t regret it. She said it in Save Henry because it got her what she wanted and she says in S4 that her greatest regret was not believing how special Henry was which was a sugar coating or erasure of her abuse of Henry. Her greatest regret should be the lives she destroyed. Killian has never destroyed Emma nor has he been the cause of her building walls around herself. He’s actually the reason her walls came down which allowed her to fully love again and stop running.
Regina’s treatment of Emma regarding Marian. She vilified Emma for saving her victims life and never gave one thought to Roland or to her role in the matter! Killian never vilified Emma for being a hero.
Regina’s use of the dagger against Emma. Emma gave the dagger to her because she knew Regina was the only one capable of destroying her. She knew Killian and her parents loved her too much and believed in her too much. That’s not a good thing for Regina! Furthermore, Regina used that dagger against Emma on three occasions. The first was to steal her agency cause she didn’t trust Emma to be the savior and battle darkness, the second time to shut her up and she enjoyed it and the third time to force Emma to reveal something Emma didn’t want to reveal to Regina. Killian Jones would not let anyone control Emma with that dagger and trusted Emma to make the right choices.
Regina’s rape and murder of Graham effected Emma present day and Regina is taking that secret to her grave. This point alone, and the severity of her crime, makes Regina’s redemption incomplete and her status as Emma’s friend suspect.
Now if you’d like to learn something, hit the continue reading button but I warn you… this is very much Pro-Killian Jones and very much Anti-Regina Mills.
More proof and explanations provided under each tag or click here for Toxic Friendship vs True Love.
1) Responding to Emma Swan’s Magic - Read More Here
Regina was accusing and angry
Killian was gentle and supportive
Regina brought out her magic by being cruel.
Killian helped Emma find her magic through kindness and listening to her. Talking to her.
Acknowledgements: Yes, Emma and Regina did magic together. And yes, I am specifically focussing on Regina’s negative remarks for a reason. It contrasts how they treated Emma to start with regarding her magic. Never mind that being demeaning is almost always Regina’s first response.
2) Caring about Emma’s Life - Read More Here
Regina emotionally blackmailed Emma into saving Robin’s life when it could have made Emma step into the darkness (5x02).
Killian didn’t care about his future. He only thought of Emma (5x08).
Regina wanted to destroy Emma’s happiness because she’d lost her own (5x22)
Killian Jones only wanted a happy future for Emma (goodbye in 5x20). He even agreed to step aside for Neal in S3 if that’s what she wanted. Then when he came out from under the darkness’ hold he sacrificed himself to give her a future (his death in Swan Song).
Regina brought the evil queen out & when it came time for her to make a sacrifice... she let Emma’s parents face her more evil half instead of laying down her life for them
Killian showed remorse for what he’d done to her family. Regina did not.
Killian faced the Wicked Witch to get to Emma.
Regina wouldn’t do what needed to be done with her sister until Killian forced her hand
Acknowledgement: Don’t even start with the “she went to the Underworld for Emma!” She did that for herself and so that she wouldn’t be left behind. She had to go with the heroes since she’s being a hero to get her happy ending. I mean she disappeared on Emma to go hunt down Daniel, heal a horse and have a family reunion.
3) The use of the Dagger - Read More Here
Regina used the dagger against Emma & enjoyed the pain it caused (5x02) vs Killian refused to let anyone control her (5x01 & 5x08)
Regina used the dagger to force Emma to reveal something she didn’t want to reveal to her. She tried to strip Emma of her free will! (5x08 at the well)
Killian asked Emma. He talked with Emma. He quieted her fears. He helped her light the flame.
4) Dark Swan - Read More Here
Regina called Emma a problem (5x01) vs Killian believing & trusting in her (speech in 5x10)
Regina stole Emma’s agency because she didn’t trust her to make the right choice whereas Killian insisted it had to be her choice without forcing her. Killian was always quick to remind Emma of who she was.
Regina believed the worse; that Emma would destroy light magic.
Killian knew Emma. And he knew that whatever she was doing she had a reason and that it wasn’t to destroy them.
Regina blamed Emma right away for the demon. She never apologized (5x02).
Killian said some things he shouldn’t have out of fear of the darkness but he DID apologize (5x08 when he jumped off the roof) & was quick to point out that she “raised the bar too high” & he didn’t measure up signaling that he believes she’s better than he (Brothers episode).
Acknowledgement: I think one time Regina said something about Emma still being Emma though it was only to get her to help her with the demon. She went right back to being accusing and casting blame on her.
5) Waking Emma - Read More Here
Regina emotionally tortured her by murdering her Wish Parents in front of her then blamed Emma for what she “had to do”.
Regina kept pushing even when her tactic wasn’t working & she still failed. Wish Henry woke Emma.
Killian attempted a true loves kiss to wake her but when that failed he took a gentler approach: proving he believed in who she was & got her to trust him • Also puts to rest the TLK “assault” BS once and for all... if you can’t separate fiction from reality please stop watching TV
6) About Marian - Read More Here
Two things here: 1) Regina treats Emma horribly and she is not consumed by darkness 2) she’s suppose to be redeemed by this point:
Regina vilified Emma for saving Marian & equated it to Regina committing genocide.
Regina refuses to admit her part in the problem with Marian.
Killian at least admits when he’s guilty: his part in capturing the fairies, taking the sheers, his weakness with the darkness, his part in Milah leaving Rumple. I can’t imagine him ever blaming something he caused on Emma.
Killian helped Emma and delighted in her “piratical” ways.
7) Emma's role in their redemption - Read More Here
Regina claims Emma ruined her life & is responsible for her heartache (s4 over Marian). She claims that Emma has never had her back. Says that the more she helps the worse her life becomes.
The other tells her what an inspiration she’s been. (S4 when Emma is leaving to confront Lily and save Robin) . He even shows he’s learned from her by taking a page out of her book.
Killian showed remorse for what he’d done to her family. Regina did not.
8) Emma’s Leadership - Read More Here
Regina refused to follow her leadership (S3 over the map, S3 over Zelena, S3 over finding Neal who could read the star map, S6 in mirror mirror)
Killian always did or at the very least always admired her leadership capabilities. He readily agreed they go forward with Emma as the leader in 3x01.
Regina often doubted Emma’s abilities & thought she was more capable - which goes into how she treated Emma regarding Henry in the next part.
9) The way they treated her in regards to Henry - Read More Here
Regina Mills spent the first season trying to turn Henry against Emma (publishing her juvenile record, making sure Henry overheard her not believing in him, his castle, 1x02 about his files, etc).
She often used anti-birth mother rhetoric (accusing Emma of being jealous in 3x10, being safer with her in shattered sight curse, S5 finale over Henry & Violet’s favorite song & the sEQ calling herself his real mother).
There is not 1 incident of Killian Jones believing that Emma isn’t a great parent. Nor does he ever insult or degrade her in front of Henry (like Regina did in S4 with the “savior needs saving” or how she wouldn’t stand up for Dark Swan). In fact, we know he thinks that Henry is lucky to have a mother like Emma.
Note: YES the evil queen counts. She is Regina. This is how Regina feels.
10) Extra Moments - Read More Here
Killian was quick to offer praises and reassurance. Regina was often insulting & she has no excuse (like being consumed by darkness & being manipulated by the dark ones).
Killian was quick with the compliments. Regina calls her childish while Killian speaks kindly to her about her parents (4x19 or 20) - also compare this with the lighting of the flame. Killian gets Emma to open up in a much more positive way that doesn’t hurt her or insult her.
Regina insulted her family. Killian never did.
Regina has physically assaulted Emma. Out of jealousy and anger.
Regina doesn’t know Emma more than Killian Jones
11) The men in Emma’s past - Read More Here
Regina murdered a man she was sexually abusing because he chose Emma over her & she was losing her control over him.
Killian Jones didn’t leave Neal Cassidy to die in Neverland. He wouldn’t have “hurt her unnecessarily” in such a way.
Furthermore, he knew Neal & Emma had a past but he stepped aside to give Henry a chance to see his parents together. Regina took Graham’s rape & murder to the grave. And YES it was rape. That is not up for debate.
CONCLUSION:
If you can forgive Regina for ruining Emma’s childhood, trying to kill her parents, attempting to murder Emma for two years, trying to turn her son against her, committing genocide, rape, abusing men, abusing women, abusing children (Hansel & Gretal & the other kids she sent to the blind witch, Greg/Owen and her own son), murder, torture, attempted murder and adultery (intent matters & hell the sEQ is still Regina) then why can’t you forgive Killian Jones for pirating & his mission of revenge (which includes abusing men and women)?
Furthermore, Killian’s deeds do not rival that of Regina’s so you can not say that Killian is worse than Regina. Hades says so himself that her crimes almost match Rumple’s and Regina’s heart is nearly pitch black whereas Killian’s was mostly red. Regina did not do anything to redeem herself except cry a few tears for herself and join team hero whereas Killian sacrificed his life. So honestly, at this point, just admit your biased against Killian because he isn’t Regina & you want Regina with her step-granddaughter whom she tried to murder as a newborn. Or hell, admit you’re angry that Robin died and Killian lived & Regina ended up alone! We already know that’s it. Cause between the two of them, Killian has more of a redemption based on the fact that he’s actually sacrificed, faced his victims and showed remorse for his victims whereas Regina only shows remorse for her own lost happy ending.
i saw a youtube video saying that hook and emma were a forced relationship and they did a heel face turn while ignoring hook's previous misdeeds and even included the jab you with my sword scene and said august deserved better and should've been emma's love interest and also cs was only canon cause it was popular....ummm
Claim One: Hook & Emma were a forced relationship
Debunked: I mean I don't know the reasons they gave for saying this but I've laid some of the more popular ones out here:
Claim One: Emma only agreed to marry Killian because she felt like she OWED him and that she was in too deep and that every sacrifice she ma
Claim Two: Hook's previous misdeeds were ignored
WHEN? Literally all of his crimes were addressed and he suffered real time consequences for them! Of all the villains he was the one to acknowledge his faults and feel guilt over things he'd done.
He was sent to prison for shooting Belle, he got punched by David... he went to hell and was tortured because he believed he deserved it for not being able to resist being consumed by ultimate evil... o
And after Hook's crass joke about the sword? What happened, y'all? He got a rock to the face!
Emma did not even entertain the thought of being with him until she noticed his willingness to change and that happened in the CaptainSwan movie. So she was well aware of what he'd done... but she saw the change happening inside of him and chose to forgive and see the goodness in the man he was becoming.
Claim Three: CaptainSwan was only canon because it was popular.
Debunked: No, CaptainSwan was planned the moment the creators saw the chemistry between JMO & Colin. They'd always hoped to have Emma with Captain Hook and it just worked out.
“Did you always intended to have Hook in love with Emma?”
“Always” - Edward Kitsis
"… We loved the idea that Hook and Emma would be kindred
Claim Four: August deserved better and should've ended up with Emma
Most of this is answered in the above link and in this blog post: August Would've been a Better Love Interest but I will just reiterate this:
I do like that Emma and August became friends. I do wish the show had done more with that. But I can’t see them being more than friends. Emma needed someone who would always fight for her and while August did become a friend, and helped her when he needed to, he was never going to be the constant that she needed. Killian is that constant.
August was also a victim; He was a toy child thrust into the real world, burdened by too much at a young age, and pretty much grew up on the streets with older kids as bad influences. But it 100% doesn’t excuse adult August’s actions even if he believes that what he did was in Emma’s best interest. I think her going to prison was just easier for August and Neal! There were other roads to take. And I don't think Emma would look past that to be with August.
ask continued: "also wanted to add that they (YouTube videos) didn't buy hook by s4 as a traditonal sweep you off your feet romantic when his first episode he was stealing milah away and humiliating rumple on his ship and also the jab you line."
Well, to tell you the truth... in SEASON TWO when all that happened, I did not see Captain Hook as a romantic figure either. He was a villain. Emma's adversary. We weren't meant to see him as a romantic hero there to sweep Emma off her feet! This also implies that we see Emma as a helpless princess and that's just not what was happening.
ask continued: Frenchvanilla: "but like that's called character development.....and hook being a pirate is literally not all to his personality you can see him being sweet, patient, and caring with emma and even henry before they got together. it's such a bad faith take"
100% agreed. It would be a very boring story if Hook showed up as a romantic love interest all perfect and ready for Emma. But instead the show gave us a truly beautiful redemption story of a man that had lost his way due to childhood trauma overcome all of that be the man he was supposed to be.
And agreed, we always saw a glimpse of the good that was in Kilian jones even when he was being a piratical pain in the arse!
also wanted to add, one persons said regina has redeemed herself time and time again but is punished for her past mistakes (ie losing robin) compared to hook who is rewarded in the end with a happy ending with emma. you guys did we really watch the same show? if you mean by punished in s2 when henry turns agaimst her because she's dealing with the fallout of her curse? i'm confused
They think Regina's unhappiness... like every time she cries (which was always over herself)... is "punishment" enough for her HEINOUS acts that she never really owns up to (like Henry's abuse, Graham, Marian etc etc). So we might have watched the same show but they swallowed the BS writing that was given to us with Regina and they were unable (or unwilling) to use their one brain cell to think critically about what was going on.
Killian literally dies for his mistakes and is tortured and comes out a completely changed person who is more humble and aware he deserves nothing. He is literally the exact opposite of Regina's "poor me, I deserve to get what I want" attitude. Killian may not DESERVE a happy ending... but he sure as hell earned it. Or lets put it this way... Emma sure as hell deserves a happy ending and Killian is her part of her happy ending.
off topic but why is your friend hating on Jefferson while Emma and Hook did very much worse things than him and she justifies them yet hates on Jefferson? he just wanted his daughter back and did everything for her while Emma and Hook did really awful things that you can’t justify when they were villains but she understands it somehow yet hates on Jefferson. make it make sense!!! and she blocked me btw-
Sorry I am getting to this so late... life has been hectic.
At this point I am not sure what friend you're referring to or where this conversation even is so I'm not sure what the anti-Jefferson part of the argument was about....
However, I can say that I have never held anything against Jefferson. He was a desperate man who has been, technically, mentally tortured for 28 years by Regina's curse.
I also do not hold anything again Dark Swan or Dark Hook as they were literally consumed by darkness and everything Emma did was not for personal gain but for the greater good.
Generally if a character admits their wrongs, owns up to it and grows by the end... I am not going to hold anything against them. Jefferson, Emma and Hook all meet these requirements.
Saw a thread about Emma vs Regina's reaction in S5 to Henry's girlfriend.
Regina being very ... Overprotective?
Emma being chill.
Thoughts?
I have never thought of Regina's reaction as being overprotective... protecting Henry from what? An adolescent girl? Or more likely protecting herself from losing Henry? Or just being jealous that Emma knows more about Henry's life than she does? Regina's reaction, in my opinion, was one of shock and fear because Henry was closer to Emma and she was losing him to yet another person. Remember this is the same woman that went to great lengths, even putting Henry at risk, to keep him all to herself.
I guess you could say Emma's reaction was super chill. But. That's not a bad thing. She knew who Violet was, knew Henry liked her and was very supportive of Henry. She didn't try to hold him back.
I will always be Team "Emma was the better mother"
Question, what would you have done for s7 if you could? Because in all honesty it is just s1 with slightly different characters. I remember when I first watched the show with my mom (who had already seen it when it aired) I had asked her I'd Alice/Tilly was Emma and Killian's daughter, and if they'd have to go and find or save Emma this season. My mom looked at me and said "No, Emma's in two episodes and that's not the Killian we like. You're not going to like this season very much"
Well, since half the cast wanted out I either wouldn't have done a S7 or made changes to S6 (which quite honestly sucked aside from CaptainSwan wedding) to make way for a better S7... Like maybe if they had actually committed to the Untold Stories arc then S7 could've been done with fresh new characters and stories.
I feel like the main characters stories were done anyway. They'd found their happy endings. So aside from some fluff and wanting to see Emma and Killian fighting crime like a fairytale version of Castle and Beckett... I was pretty satisfied ...
snow should have been the good queen and i’m forever mad that she wasn’t. after all the history with her, regina, cora and eva (and charming and emma) i really feel as though it would have been incredibly satisfying, for me at least, to see her in her rightful throne, victorious after everything. she really deserved that. and i like the poetry of that better than regina ending up exactly where her mother wanted her all along. regina has commited mass murder against her own people. get her off that throne immediately.
There was another ask similar to this a while back and it brought up such a valid point that I wanted to re-post it!
okay i’m sure you’ve covered this at some point but this site is an abomination to search in sometimes.
i wanna ask about your thoughts on
The above basically says this: Regina stepping aside and showing humility and self-awareness by advocating for Snow White and Prince Charming to reclaim the throne that was rightfully theirs would've actually showed a change in Regina. But instead we have her accept a crown from people she's never apologized to, showed remorse for ruining their lives or gone to any lengths to make it up to them.
Snow White stepping up to that throne would've shown that she was back to her pre-curse self. The self she claimed she wanted to be in Season 5 but that notion was quickly brushed away like it was never brought up. It would've shown that she was ready to be the leader she was always meant to be. The story truly would've come full circle.
I have also mentioned in other posts that I have a hard time accepting that anyone in the Enchanted Forest would’ve voted for the woman who destroyed their lives, never faced those crimes and never showed remorse. I have an even harder time believing Elsa, Merida, Jasmine and Aurora and Philip would gladly hand over their family legacies, their kingdoms, to answer to Regina. What did Regina ever do for them? Nothing.
But yes, I very much will be forever bitter they chose that ending. It was not a good ending and anyone paying attention to the overall story understands this.
My friend just finished the show and her biggest complaint was that Regina never actually got a redemption like so others in the show. She was so mad because she felt that her ending as the Good Queen made no sense and that Snow should have been the Good Queen. We both feel like it's a cop out for not ever actually apologize for what she did wrong. Like this woman r@ped a man for probably over 28 years, and yet Graham doesn't even haunt the narrative at all. I have since shared with her your tumblr so she can see others how share her opinion, also cause I really love this blog to begin with. Also side note, I saw someone post a comment on TT under a DESTIEL POST that swanqueen was more impactful them freaking Destiel.
I love hearing from like-minded people! And thank you!
Sorry, I do not know much about Destiel. I know of the ship but not about the ship.
I do not see how SQ has impacted anything outside of its little fanbase. The only people who like it are people in love with LP because the rest of us see it for the poorly written toxic friendship that it is.
I love reading your views of OUAT, thank you for them. I saw the edit on Tiktok about the characters as the deadly sins. Aurora was picked for a sloth, (which in concerning in itself, because she was literally cursed to sleep for eternity), but someone in the comments said that Emma would be a better option for it, because
She didn't want to train with Regina at first when she found out she had powers and was still too lazy to try even when she knew her they were back at the end of season 3.
2. Even as a Dark One, her fear made her lazy, because she rejected accepting why she doesn’t wanna let go of the darkness out of sloth, because she knew getting rid of it would be hard.
and
3. She’s used to running away because she doesn’t want to face her problems. It was claimed through the whole comment that she always took the easy way out and that it was the form of laziness in itself.
I don't agree with these one bit, but I would want to hear your take on this.
I mean if you HAVE to pick one of the deadly sins ... yes... sloth would be the closest for Emma but in order to fit her into that box you have to remove canon reasons for Emma's actions, her past trauma and the fear that is driving her. Because it's not laziness. It's fear.
Emma is 100% NOT lazy. You remove the terms "lazy" and "indifference" out of the definition and replace it with "fear" and "hiding behind walls to protect herself" then you'd be right on the money. But lets be clear, Emma's fear and her walls has NEVER prevented her from helping someone else.
Emma not wanting to train was not do to laziness. Emma didn't believe in herself enough. She resisted the role of savior because she didn't want to let everyone down when everyone was depending on her. She also just wasn't ready to accept it! It's like they forget Emma grew up in the real world where magic didn't exist and was just a fairy tale. Give her time to accept things, y'all! If she came rushing in there all ready to believe... it wouldn't be believable! (see Charmed when Paige is introduced - they should've stretched that a little more it just wasn't believable)
Also this person states a complete lie about Dark Swan. Emma literally states her reason for holding onto the darkness and it's because she is scared that she will lose someone she loves!
Emma was running because she was looking for home and because she was afraid of losing it. But... she stopped running. Can we see and accept the character growth here?
And there's the bottom line right there... Emma grew out of her fear. She had character development and growth. She learned to accept this new reality she was faced with, accepted her destiny, learned not to fear the future and she saved people every episode! A lazy person isn't gonna be a daily hero!
Please tell me they filed Regina under Pride & Wrath? She holds pretty tightly to Pride and Wrath the entire series, too. It may lesson but she's still got both of them and the definitions fit her 100%.
And I also agree that putting Aurora under Sloth is also not accurate and also ignores canon context. Just because she sleeps? WTH, man.
I think Rumple fits sloth much more than either Emma or Aurora. But again you'd have to replace lazy with cowardice.
I just saw someone claim that Emma and Regina are always more emotional and intense around each other than Emma is with Killian, and they used the s4 finale as proof because "And Emma is clearly happy to see [Killian]!! But it’s like a sort of chill flirty vibe, she’s pretty calm about it, it’s not super emotional or anything. Then Henry brings her to Regina and within like 30 seconds Emma is tearing up. She’s so emotional and intense talking to Regina. And they make it about their respective male love interests, so ostensibly Emma is emotional about Hook, right? Right… except when she actually DID see Hook she honestly did not seem very affected. Surely if she’s so hung up on having never told him she loves him, she would have been having that emotional outpouring… when she actually saw him??? Instead, it’s not until she’s standing in front of Regina that she’s in her feels."
And "then in the next episode she’s finally got Hook back… and she immediately sacrifices everything as soon as any harm is threatened to Regina. With Hook BEGGING her not to. She chooses Regina without hesitating."
And this person did say that they respect Captain Swan as a ship but it bothered me how much they seemed to be misinterpreting these scenes. Like, Emma didn't tell Killian she loved him because she's been hurt and she's got walls, and then she watches him die and that's why she is so emotional later when she's talking to Regina. And she sacrifices herself for everyone in Storybrooke, but Swanqueen shippers like to claim that it was only for Regina with barely any proof.
Plus, they claim that Emma and Regina are always intense and emotional with each other, but I don't really remember any examples of that (I will admit, I haven't rewatched it in a while).
There is ZERO proof that Emma sacrificed for Regina but all of the proof telling us that Emma took on the darkness to stop it from DESTROYING THE ENTIRE TOWN and everyone in it. But we can point this out until we're blue in the face and they wont listen. I mean they can have their fanon but we'd all get along so much better if they would just stop bringing down CaptainSwan to lift up their toxic ass friendship ship.
There isn't a single scene between Emma and Regina that is "intense & emotional" AND about the two of them. Unless you want to count the DISGUSTING scene where Emma is groveling for her abusers friendship when Regina hasn't done a single thing to seek forgiveness for hurting Emma or her family. But that's hardly intense. Or maybe they mean that time Regina was hurting Emma with the dagger to force Emma to reveal things to her that Emma didn't want to share with Regina? Oh how romantic!
Emma's most intense scenes are with Killian Jones. You do not get more intense than when Killian sacrificed his life for her and the town, when he was dying in Camelot, their emotional goodbye in the UnderWorld or his return to Storybrooke. Season 5 was packed with intense emotions. And if they do not think Emma wasn't emotional in the S4 finale then they need to look again (they wont because they do not even know who Emma is) because Emma was definitely "in her feels" but her fear of the future (which is what S5 was all about) was keeping it all bottled in. She was still terrified of losing him.
also one that said hook and cora got freaky because he'll sleep with anything that is female and that he likes women he can control/have leverage over and thinks he deserves compesation for things like that, but his whole mo for teaming up with cora was getting revenge on rumple and since cora slept with rumple she's not above that. you guys need help like...
.... uh... Hook controlled Cora? A powerful dark magic user? Did I blink and miss this? I just...
I love it. They make me laugh with their ridiculousness.
They need to provide canon instances, not just their feelings as evidence, that Hook likes to control women. Because he quite literally let Milah, Tink and Emma have complete say in what did or didn't (in Tink's case) happen between them. Hell, Milah was an equal partner.
I would also love to know canon instances that backs up the idea that Hook sleeps with anything that is female. In order for this to be true we'd have had to witness him having sex with every female he encountered. Which didn't happen. So he definitely has self-control to where he doesn't need to get it on with Cora! Or even Regina since he definitely did not respond to her advances.
Cora was in love with Rumple, though. So I am not sure what she's suppose to be above?
someone said regina was willing to put other’s happiness before her own and we watch her suffer for it. she’s only done that like twice and she didn’t really wanna do it either (letting henry stay with david when the curse broke and saving marian’s life from the frozen heart)
I would argue that Regina has NEVER put anyone's happiness before her own because her actions were always self-serving in some way. Lets keep in my mind that Regina likes to make herself the biggest victim in every scenario to avert blame from herself and get pity. She blames Snow for her title of evil queen, she blames losing Robin to Marian on Emma, she makes Emma's visions about herself, belittles Emma's pain in S3 over Henry because she feels like her pain is worse, tries to claim that her evil tyrade was worse than Emma being consumed by darkness... it's a pattern with her. So if she does something for someone that makes her seem like the victim because she's crying... that doesn't count to me. It's self-serving. I'll explain.
People say that her sacrificing herself at the kill switch was a heroic moment without taking into consideration that 1) she'd have let them all die moments ago 2) is only doing this because SHE is going to LOSE Henry (aka no one to love her). Therefore, in my opinion, anything Regina does for Henry is for herself because she needs Henry's love.
If Regina was willing to put Henry before herself than she'd have never brought him to a cursed town in the first place. She wouldn't have put him through hell to keep her curse and keep him isolated.
In my opinion, letting Henry stay with David in S2 was a show of victim hood for her (because she lies about "not knowing how to love" - if she didn't know how to love then she couldn't used her father to cast the curse and she also loved Daniel). This was an attempt to gain Henry's trust. History book abuser tactic. When this fails, she reverts right back to abusing others and him to get him back.
And Regina even says so herself that saving Marian was her only choice because if she did what her first impulse was, to kill her, they'd know it was her. Regina was also 100% not happy to do this. She was resentful that a little boy was getting his mother back.
Then in Season 5 we have Regina begging Emma to take, what could be, her final step into darkness to save Regina's happy ending. Regina also didn't give one thought to Percival. Didn't even attempt to save him.
Season 6 ... if you want to make the claim that Regina is willing to put other's happiness above her own then you're going to have to explain to me why she let her two biggest victims, the Charmings, face her more evil half? Emma came close to losing her parents and baby Neal close to becoming an orphan because Regina's happy ending is more important than being a real hero. And no, the excuse of "but Henry would lose his mother" isn't going to cut it when Henry still has Emma (the better mother, anyway) and Regina is the evil tyrant needing to make a sacrifice for the greater good and for once make it up to her victims in order to complete her redemption. But alas Regina's redemption remains incomplete!
And I am sure someone can insert a S7 instance here...? Or maybe not since the show retconned her with that whole split queen nonsense and completely changed her in S7. Yeah, I admit it, I only saw parts of S7.
Emma changed because she was forced to be with Hook. DEBUNKED
Claim One: Emma only agreed to marry Killian because she felt like she OWED him and that she was in too deep and that every sacrifice she made was for Regina.
So if Emma is “in too deep” with Hook… does that mean they recognize all of the things Hook as done for Emma? Why else would they think Emma thinks she owes Hook something?
Truth: Emma never tells us that she feels like she owes Hook anything. Are they trying to twist around Emma’s reasoning for going after Hook in the Underworld? Because she didn’t do that because she felt guilty that she “owed him” something. I’ve heard them try to claim this before. But Emma goes because Gold took away Killian’s sacrifice and therefor he was dead for no reason. She believed he’d earned a second chance.
Claim Two: Emma only gave in to Hook because it was nice to be wanted by someone and she didn't have high standards for herself.
Emma was wanted by Neal (when it was convenient for him aka after his fiancé died) and she stood him up because she did have high standards for herself. She wasn’t going to be someone’s last choice. She also needed someone who would put her first and love her for who she was and that person was Hook.
Truth: Emma was shown to make her own decisions. When she wasn’t ready to do something, she didn’t do it until she was ready to do it. She didn’t want to be with Neal so she stood him up. She didn’t want to embrace being the savior so she was ready to run back to the safety of New York until she figured out, with Hook’s help, that she was going to embrace that title and stop running from her family over fear of being hurt. She had to come to those decisions in her own time. Someone that just goes with the flow doesn’t need time to reflect they just do it.
Claim Three: Emma only stayed with Hook because of her abandonment issues
Truth: Hook proving that he wasn’t going to abandon her is what allowed Emma to feel safe enough to open her heart to him. She has no issues over walking away from something she doesn’t want (she did so with Neal). So let’s not conflate things here.
Claim Four: Emma is aware of how selfish & self-serving Hook is but she chose to stay with him anyway
I have heard them state this but if you ever ask an anti-CSer for canon proof to back up this claim all they say is “just look at how their relationship is, you fool!” which isn’t proof which means there isn’t canon to back up this statement.
Hook found Neal and stepped aside for him. That is the opposite of self-serving. Hook sacrificed his life for Emma and her family knowing he’d be separated from her for eternity. That is the opposite of self-serving. He risked his life going against Pan to save David so that she wouldn’t know the loss of losing a father (he tried to stop David from telling everyone so no, he never planned for them to know this as he still wanted them to view him as a pirate at this time because he still had his walls up too)
Claim Five: Hook made fun of Emma's masculine traits and in order to be vulnerable she had to de-emasculate herself in order to stay with him. She was more herself in the pilot than she was in laters seasons.
I would ask for proof of when Hook made fun of Emma’s “masculinity?” Never mind that the idea that Emma is masculine is straight out of Swanqueen fanon where they like to pretend that Emma is poor-little-smol -bean-innocent Regina’s hero which is far from canon truth. Emma was never masculine. And Hook has never made fun of Emma.
In turn, Emma was never “de-emasculated.” The Emma we see in season 1 is the Emma hiding behind her armor of make-up, red leather and a chip on her shoulder. That is not the real Emma Swan. The real Emma Swan emerges as she grows and learns to love again and be a part of a family. It’s called character growth.
Claim Six: Emma was wearing Regina's shirt and dressing like her during 3B curse
Wait. Stop. No, she wasn’t? I mean yeah she had to borrow one of Regina’s shirts in S1 but there was nothing sexual about that at all. Henry stole that shirt for her.
But Emma was not dressing like Regina in S3b … let’s be for real. Did they have JMO wear an article of Regina’s clothing because they re-use pieces all of the time? Well, maybe, it’s been a while but I know for a fact that the OUAT custuming budget swapped articles of clothing between characters all of the time.
Claim Seven: Emma's arc was about a strong woman who becomes pathetic because of a man regarding the underworld arc and the repeated phrase of hook saying you "should've let me go." and the whole fandom hates Emma for not letting hmn go and reviving him
These people do not understand or want to understand that the Dark Swan and Underworld arc was about Emma’s fear of losing everyone she cares for which in turn makes her fear the future. Yes, Emma should’ve let Killian go in Camelot but 1) she had the dark curse in her and 2) she didn’t want to lose another person she loved. She was hanging onto the darkness in the beginning because she was afraid if she let go of it she’d lose someone. This wasn’t Emma being “pathetic over a man” it was Emma not wanting to lose someone she loved for the 999th time.
And. Emma did let Hook go. She found her strength to walk through that portal without him because she had a son that needed her and an entire town depending on her.
Claim Eight: Emma Swan went down hill after she dated Hook and became a different person. Emma Swan in s3 wanted to take Henry back to New York because she was scared that staying in Storybrooke would be putting him in danger. BUT S5 Emma dragged her teenage son to LITERAL HELL to bring back a pirate that stole her sons fathers mother from him.
First off, let’s correct the record. S3 Emma used that as an excuse to run. Emma was running. She was looking for “home” and afraid that if she did stay she would be hurt again.
S5 Emma didn’t drag anyone to hell. She was going to go alone. Everyone insisted on helping her. Should Henry have stayed behind? Yeah, sure. But saying he was “dragged” there when everyone literally states that “they wanted to come” is hyperbolic.
The fact is that the CaptainSwan haters liked the closed off Emma with a chip on her shoulder because at that time she wasn’t with Hook. If Emma still evolved but was with their fave they’d be praising her character GROWTH. Because being closed off, always running and having a chip on your shoulder isn’t the best version of you. Emma evolved into a nicer person that didn’t have a chip on her shoulder but would still put a person in their place but who wasn’t afraid of love and who didn’t run for fear of being hurt.
Claim Nine: The CS relationship ruined her. It stripped Emma of everything that made her…… Her.”
What made her….her? Her make-up and curls? Does that define someone? What made her….her? Keeping everyone at arm’s length? Because that’s a great way to live! What made her…her? Wearing pants and a white shirt?
Or maybe what made Emma, Emma is:
Her willingness to put herself at risk for others happy ending
The way she was always seeking the truth no matter what
Doing what was right and not what was easy
Her willingness to give those that may not deserve it a second chance because she believes people can change
She did all of these things every single season.
Ever so often the Swan Queen fandom gets it in their heads to try & tear down Emma Swan's look and character development simply because she
The above post covers the following myths:
MYTH: EMMA WAS FORCED TO CHOOSE HOOK
MYTH: GETTING MARRIED AND HAVING CHILDREN WAS NOT SEASON ONE EMMA'S HAPPY ENDING
MYTH: EMMA DIDN'T PUT HERSELF FIRST ANYMORE BECAUSE OF HOOK & WAS A SHELL OF HER FORMER SELF
MYTH: THE CHARMINGS' & HOOK'S LOVE WAS CONDITIONED ON HER BEING THE SAVIOR AND BEING WITH HOOK
Please see the above link for more details. These can be found at the bottom of the post. I didn't want to repeat content.
coming back to your inbox again but i cannot make this up when i legit saw a sq say that emma's echo cave confession should've been that ""My secret... my secret is that I kissed Hook to prove a point. I kissed Hook because I thought it would change something for me, change the way I feel about... Regina. She drives me crazy, she makes me furious—but I can't stop thinking about her. I kissed Hook to stop these thoughts. These... feelings. And they're still there. But at least now, I know. I'm in
cont These... feelings. And they're still there. But at least now, I know. I'm in love with Regina." like i cannot make up how these sqs are absoutely deluded and need emma to be their stand in. BECAUSE WHY WOULD SHE SAY THAT ESP IN NEVERLAND. LIKE????"
Yeah cause that would've sound so legit coming after this scene...
I mean I know they fanon up the entire SQ relationship ... but at some point they need to understand why we laugh. We laugh because Emma and Regina were not friends until S3b (canon wise, the show tells us this - I still disagree with how they were written to be friends and still call it a toxic friendship). But they legit think that all Regina did to Emma was drive her crazy... forget the attempted to murder, ruining her childhood and how Regina constantly belittles her. You know, all that is just true love!
Okay. I saw a thread about how "hilarious" that scene in the underworld is where Rumple just had to tell Milah that Emma dated their son and Milah ex boyfriend.
And I commented that it's such an asshole move because it's none of his business who Emma dated and he shouldnt judge and shame her, and they said it was his business because it was the man who was trying to kill him and his son.
I think that's BS but I'm curious about your thoughts?
Personally? I find the scene hilarious. Milah and Emma's reactions crack me up. And the way they team up against him after just warms my cold little heart.
And that's basically why I can appreciate the humor they were going for here. The writing is absolutely not painting Rumple as the good guy so therefore the scene isn't rubbing me the wrong way. I can appreciate a good villain and laugh at it when the writing isn't being stupid. Also. What Rumple says here is true. And I think the writers wanted to find an interesting way to remind the audience of the dynamic going on between these characters.
Also, allow me to make a better argument for these people because they so missed the mark! Emma's personal life is none of Rumple's business, however, if they're gonna try to argue it they should be saying: "it's Rumple's business because Emma had a child with his son and now she's with the man his wife left him for. So obviously he's still a little hurt since he's using Emma to hurt Milah in regards to their son and her ex-lover."
Please don't mistake this as me taking Rumple's side or theirs. I am not. Just providing more ways to look at this scene and Rumple's motivation. And I think trying to use "the man that was trying to kill Rumple" as an excuse is weird when both men have been in battle with each other. It's not one sided.
So. Rumple was 100% in the wrong and what he did was not justified under any circumstances. It was an asshole move. Doesn't mean we can't laugh at it though. But if you don't find it funny then you don't find it funny. I personally don't think there's any reason not to find it funny...
i saw an amazing take on who was the more “evil” dark one and i thought i’d share with you and have your thoughts.
“Rumple. Hook has an impulse control problem that he somehow managed to overcome enough to attempt to end the dark one line for good. Rumple then took the power again and continued on with his bullshit.
Rumplestiltskin is actively aware of what he’s doing at all times and he will intricately plan something FOREVER. He manipulates people into being their worst selves and won’t do anything that doesn’t benefit him. That’s far more sinister than bursts of rage. Hook wins for most damage caused in a single day though.”
I do agree with this!
"...most damage caused in a single day" had me giggling! So true!
Whenever someone tries to come at me with how Rumple is better than Killian I like to point out ... basically what this person said...
Killian fought the darkness, destroyed it (would've if Rumple hadn't interfered), and never sought it again.
Rumple could never let it go. Not until it stood in his way of what he wanted. Funny that he could only give up the darkness for Belle when she was dead. If she'd been alive, he'd still be the dark one.
i love emma but i wish she had a backbone when it came to regina’s incessant bullying of her and her parents half the time. loved emma snapping back and calling regina a monster when regina called her a pathetic waste of an ability (UNPROVOKED OVER LIGHTING A COCONUT MIND YOU)
I so very much wished Regina had been called out for her constant insults! The show would've been much better if her victims hadn't just sat there and taken it. Fine, let her be a part of team hero. But for the love of my insanity stop letting Regina get away it! But oh no, everyone had to bow to tyrant queeniepoo!
Side note: the "pathetic waste of ability" line was Regina "teaching" Emma how to use her magic and Emma not wanting to "go dark" to do it but what does Regina do? Makes her angry by insulting her so she'll light the campfire. It doesn't work, mind you. Emma is only able to get it to smoke.
But Regina is all proud of herself for verbally abusing Emma into doing something she didn't want to do.
Second side note: Maybe if Killian had been there instead to simply encourage Emma, maybe Emma would've been able to light it as she did in Season 5 with the flame. Just a thought!
