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Will you support Satoshi's journey in Alola in whatever?
Yeah, most certainly.
As long as there’s proper work and loving on his Pokemon, really being empathetic and bonding with them to warrant their strength and evolutions rather “HERPDERP I’M SO INSPIRATIONAL, LOOK AT MY SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE FROG!1111Hype1111″
The Acts HAD to cross over into the main anime though otherwise how was the TF arc meant to progress and the writers probably planned out Alan being the one to defeat Satoshi at the league BEFORE even the first Act was written
I’m not sure if Alan was meant to be this league’s dream killer from the first day we saw him, if he was I do think the badge collecting would have been done way early on and they would have had the two actually have some type of non-battle related dynamic beforehand. It really did seem like something very last minute to be honest, because all the rivals and opposition present in XY were all feeble and unconvincing because every time Satoshi fought then they just had to all lose to him. I blame it mostly on the idiotic trend of the writers wanting Satoshi to win everything in XY to be honest. Serena more or less had a similar issue, only ever losing any TriPokalon through flukes and not because she got outdone.
I mainly wish the Acts didn’t cross into the anime and the Flare plot stayed contained to he Acts because it really makes fans act too fucking obnoxious, especially many who didn’t give a shit about Alan on his own merits and cried for his inclusion in the league who are switching tracks because he beat Satoshi. Have a stadium full of seats. I still can’t believe many fans fell for the whole “he will win the league” horse shit, AGAIN. But I post most of the blame on shippers and people who just started watching with XY hyping up this league battle like he was for sure walking away with the win along with the XY tendency™ to make “troll hype” as evidenced before mostly with Serena’s shipping titles and episodes.
Any seasoned fan worth their salt should know what this business is about, hell, if I recall the Hoenn League’s titling had a similar phrase that was used in Alan’s victory episode along with all the development given to the TSME characters in the episode prior which should have been a calling card for a loss to any fan. At this point I’m honestly sick of putting up with salty shippers and PokeAni stans who are still crying oceans over a fictional 10-year-old character and, they’re free to do so, but don’t make TSME and its character’s collateral damage in the tags we all enjoyed perfectly fine up until this point in having our fun in and discussing the things we liked and loved about these characters who they view as simple instruments for Satoshi’s world.
edit: I still do laugh a bit over how ironic it is many wanted Alan in the league but he ended up winning the whole thing. PokeAni stans are a fucking riot. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Is it really a Mary sue form when it's barely done much battle wise and ultimately lost to Alan's undefeated Charizard (which somehow... Isn't a sue, not that it IS im just saying there's just of a strong case one could make like everyone seems to do with Greninja :/)
Alan’s Charizard has lost several times, it lost to E4 Siebold’s Blastoise, got nearly killed by Primal Legendaries, lost to Lysandre’s Pyroar as a Charmeleon, was ineffective against Steven Stone’s Metagross despite having a type advantage. If Manon’s end episode segments are any indication, its lost to the likes of Mega Slowbro and even got put to sleep by Mega Audino too.
Charizard’s strength is warranted because Alan was and is always training 100% of the time, he’s always hunting keystone-holder, always collecting energy, always training with Alan, always always always since day one Alan said he wanted to be strong with Charizard and he only trained more when he resolved to become stronger to protect the one’s he loves.
Mega Charizard X is a Mega Evolution, anyone can have one if they have a Charizard, a Keystone and a Mega Stone and a powerful bond with said Charizard, even Trevor has a Charizard Y, Shouta a Mega Sceptile, etc. Satoshi is running around with a one-of-a-kind Pokemon form only he can use or trigger.
He’s Alan’s ace and ultimate partner, he’s Alan’s strongest Pokemon, Alan has gone through everything with him, Alan has been Mega Evolving him since early XY compared to Satoshi who only just recently met the frog. Charizard X is a mega evoluton and mega evolution is the face of Kalos. He and Alan actually have a strong, healthy and well displayed bond.
No case can really bad made of Mega Charizard X’s strength and success thus far because its all been fair and in canon.
Greninja’s fake form had a poorly explained lore, it’s inconsistent as crap.
Apparently this only happens and hasn’t happened in 1,000 years but SATOSHI somehow made it happen, even a village of people who specialize in ninja Pokemon and hail Greninja as some deity couldn’t even trigger this.
Greninja’s form was DEM in the sense it came at the most convenient times, you know how Alan would feel out his opponent then mega evolve moments later. Greninja almost always synchro evolved when he was losing, example, Shouta has it on the ropes then him and Satoshi press the win button in ten seconds with a one-hit KO. It drove Diantha, the strongest person and Champion of Kalos into a corner all on its own.
This form takes on his appearance, is named after Satoshi, Olympia apparently called it a new power, a whole episode of exposition was given to it as cheap and quick patch-up work because they realized their fuck-ups and they weren’t even consistent about that later on.
This form allowed Satoshi to one-shot his first fight in the league, beat Wulfric, beat Shouta, man handle Charizard X (while imperfected), and it was nearly impossible to revenge kill.
The explanation was that Satoshi cares so much for Greninja and vice versa that it transforms but this is BS when you realize, why does this only happen for Satoshi, does everyone in Kalos not love their Pokemon? Even then they did a terrible job convincing you that there was any kind of bond as for most of XY Greninja was just a battle ‘mon with barely any personality or characterization. Go watch the Korrina arc. with Mega Lucario and watch the Woods bullshit and tell me who feels like a character with feelings and emotions between Lucario and Greninja.
XY was just a letter for Satoshi worship, that’s why we got punching bag rivals, speedy fully evolved Pokemon for Satoshi only, nothing but Satoshi battle time and victories, constant Satoshi focus, Serena having a crush on him, Clemont looking up to him and taking a sound beating from him, Shouta thinking the world of him, Milefeui having a rivalry with Serena over him, Shauna-Tierno-Trevor all jobbing to and being astounded by him, group interactions centralized around him, Alan saying he’s “obsessed” with him, Pokemon-induced evolutions by virtue of Satoshi being their trainer and no hard work, many forced episodes only Satoshi saving the day and being glorified as a god damn action hero, and what is possibly the most overpowered Pokemon I have seen since Cynthia’s Garchomp in Greninja that only Satoshi can use.
ash-greninja makes no sense. like youre telling me no one in over 1,000 years in kalos even had anything like this. only ash?
No worries, we can just assume that everyone else in Kalos hates their Pokemon. I hope Alan&Lizardon pull the rug from under him in the finals after his multitude of forced, snowflake victories. It better not be through Satoshi using super Water Shuriken, Lizardon tanking it and Satoshi passing out thus Alan is victor by default. Even if Satoshi did win the league, it wouldn’t feel fair when most of it was skipped and treated as a formality for Satoshi, fights were one-shotted / easily gotten by special snowflake frog, and his only “wall” to the final two was a, still, very new trainer from Hoenn with a mega evolution as his ace (because synchro > mega evolution apparently).
Manon appearing at the Kalos League. What do you think?
XYZ has been painful for my TSME Acts-loving self, it's amazing how Alan and Manon are different from their specials. Their conflicts, agencies, wishes, goals, dynamics, all thrown under the bus for Satoshi. It really hurts, they were the two long-going XY characters who I was counting on to not disappoint me and still be lovable to me. Now this same ol' formula that Citron started where a great XY character is thrown under the bus for Satoshi's benefit gets another resurge, I'm pretty tired of Pokemon anime and Satoshi these days unfortunately. It's amazing when you look back at past series and see this wasn't nearly as prevalent an issue, but XY is so blatant and unapologetic about it that it's a punishment to watch at this point. I'm almost hoping he just wins the league and they replace him if I have to deal through this again in S&M, only with Lillie (who worries me based on appearance) as the leading lady.
I feel insulted as a huge fan of TSME, Mega Evolution, Alan&Manon and the like. Mega Evolution feels completely cheapened because any scrub can have it now and it doesn't matter seemingly because Satoshi can just bulldoze them now via plot armor or through his special snowflake frog (ughhh Satoshi-frog shilling is more granting than Eevee, Lucario, Charizard shilling combined at this point). They were hyped up as so rare and worth a true test to have and so hard to achieve but now, it's just so normalized. There's no sense of "grandeur" about them anymore. Alan and Manon, maaaann, they cared about each other so much, Alan made an array of mistakes but his worst was turning Manon to tears before her precious Hari-san had gone comatose from saving Puni-chan. It wasn’t healthy and was a big deal in the specials. In XYZ, Manon is fine? She has no issues with Alan, there is no hesitance over his behavior.
I'm really disappointed and yet Alan has some newfound boner for Satoshi, who he hasn't even had any deep interactions with, enough to diverge from his quest, get eight badges, fight his way to the finals of the league, put everything on hold while focusing on a kid and his frog that doesn't even help Hari-san because Ass!Greninja - snowflake synchrome form - not a mega evolution - doesn't yield mega evolution energy. It's nice to see Manon's face again next episode but they seemingly are forgetting her characterization and who she is. It's sad when you remember Alan was the researcher and Manon was the chick who wanted to battle and catch stronger Pokemon while traveling with Alan. Now she gets reduced to a damsel in distress waiting for this guy to save her and her Pokemon, he’s strong and mighty and she’s weak and powerless and fragile.
At this point I don’t think it’s a coincidence, this series is trying hard to drive home a divide in differences between male and female characters from aesthetic choices of “crying” (Shouta and Citron look like normal human beings, Millefeui and Performers look “attractive”) to battle time and handling of fighting and Pokemon to struggles and the like. I really hope Sun and Moon does away with this.
tbh i'm an ash fan but i don't know what theyre doing with him this saga?
I feel like the anime writing at this point is accommodating to Satoshi than the other way around, a powerful trait of a Mary Sue is being a character who breaks the rules of their own world, usually by being special for no reason to the point where others act differently around them and such.
dentos-wife
Okay but real talk, do you think that's why the XY trio is so Ash worshiping? To parallel how you were loved by everyone in the games? Whoa thinking about it this way almost makes sense
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that was the intention since Satoshi did take Calem / Serena’s role as the XY hero. I'm like 70% positive the blonde brigade are the writer's answer to Serena / Calem’s lackeys from the games. I’ve seen and tossed this theory around for a while now but it would make the most sense imo.
Do you just have a dislike toward XY Ash or Ash ingeneral? Why the love for the blondes and Tierno's gang too? Theres more postivty and energy in your post when you go on about them and just funness. Are you being real about how you feel and can you explain it to me? I really want to know in detail.
Well that’s just not true, I liked Ash. No matter how bad or good his battling skills were or how annoyed I got with his character at times, at the heart of things I still did always like Ash for who he was. I admit I wished before when I look at Ash’s character I felt more of an OS/AG-vibe in personality and how he acts toward certain things and aspects. You know, over the past year I think I’ve learned and felt more of a connection to his BW/DP selves in his personality. I think it’s obvious I’m stating the extreme obvious when I say I just find it hard to get behind him in XY, I think I appreciate those personas more now than ever.
Ash has always been an audience surrogate for viewers watching the anime, mainly young boys iirc. An audience surrogate is basically a character who exist as a way for the viewers to sort of see themselves in the anime, although it’s never been an extremely pronounced thing about his character. You didn’t really “feel” it, he had his own flaws, failings, did things very different from how the “perfect” main character would. In XY it feels really super pronounced to me, I know it can be frustrating to probably see/hear others saying harsh things or not enjoying the anime/characters in it in the same way as you.
My biggest issue of it all is. What are Ash Ketchum’s character flaws in XY that inhibit him? Why does it constantly feel like the show is being more about “telling” me how great he is rather than showing? Why the extreme surplus of gratuitous praise? What has he learned as a person? Going back to what I said, it’s bothering me how the show is being more about telling than showing, you know? He’s constantly honored as being so so so great, but it doesn’t feel authentic in its own right. I feel like the show is crying wolf about it at this point, constantly throwing it in my face and expecting me to eat it up.
Fletchling’s evolution was more so based on Bonnie, because how Bonnie acted is how I would have expect pre-XY Ash to act. Someone empathetic and emotional toward Pokemon, why did he not even try to defend Fletchling and argue that it should battle? He did it for Pignite, he did it for Chimchar, he did it for Charizard. Why not Fletchling too? The win felt hollow on Ash’s side because in the end it was Bonnie who brought out the best in it above all else. I just can’t shake the feelings a lot of this crap is piling up to something maybe? This is XY, bonds are important, maybe in the future we’re getting some character deconstruction regarding this?
Korrina suffered, Clemont suffered, Bonnie suffered. These characters suffered because of their fuck-ups and Alan/Alain will probably be in the same boat. Korrina, Bonnie and occasionally at times Clemont are/were a blessing to me. They were flawed, they had to work on that shit, they seemed to really care about Pokemon at times(okay maybe not Clemont as much), they were/are characters who can learn different values and things about the world of Pokemon and themselves as people that really impact them and can trouble them even. So yeah, Korrina was here for that Mega Evolution promotion in the Pokemon Center Tokyo but she still proved to fill the anime with a lot of love, lessons, caring, heart, growth, emotion, she was excited and just genuinely happy about meeting and defeating and getting the prints of all those Pokemon. That’s what mattered to me.
She took shit for granted and got called out for it and it was a flaw, Clemont didn’t have his responsibilities in check with the gym and jumped to the worst conclusion when it came to Chespin and was a bit of an asshole and got checked for it, Bonnie screwed up and lost her precious Dedenne and also was a selfish brat about Flabebe and had to learn from those experiences and it all mainly had to do with their Pokemon and how they interacted with or treated them. You know, I actually liked Ash in the first Summer Camp episode a good bit, there was no unnecessary glorification or anything he took a loss and was just interested in Squirtle’s style in a realistic way and he was good with Tierno and the others. I just wish that loss would have stuck, aka, that clean sweep of Team Squirtle was just not a good thing and possibly my biggest dislike of XY Ash’s acts.
Maybe portray Ash as leading the way in a Triple tag battle as being flaw-worthy? Since it’s a Triple Tag Battle and everyone has to contribute to the victory in a dynamic way and Tierno/Shauna/Trevor had done this a fair bit by now and have experience and were pointed out as being strong and the best when it came to working with Pokemon and know how to work alongside each other in that regard. Meanwhile, Ash/Serena/Clemont never had ever tagged simultaneously on top of Serena being new to battling and Clemont being fairly inactive? Plus they were portrayed as strong and capable threats, Bulbasaur’s Energy Ball overran a Flamethrower and though it was cute and about performing it was very monstrous, Squirtle was a darting agile Pokemon with a lot of technique, Charmander just had a lot of spunk and fight in its heart and mentioned as a Pokemon that constantly liked battling and picking fights with other trainers which contrast to Trevor’s more docile actions outside of battle, in battle he becomes mucccch louder and a monster.
It would have shown him as not being the end-all be-all and still in need of growth and learning if he had taken that loss. Tierno was shown to be better in a field and a rival so a defeat would have made me happy, he got eaten by Korrina, Tierno and Diantha but still was never ever acknowledged by the narrative as taking anything from the losses or needing anything to change or grow toward. Diantha’s appearance felt like a waste because she taught nothing nor humbled anyone, something we had gotten from past Champions. Tierno’s gang and Korrina offered waaaaaay more for him to take but still nothing gave. Did Ash learn a lesson know? No. Did he display a flaw? No. Was Pikashipping in the future Korrina battled used as anything other than a super duper convenient tool to win said match and show us how great he was? No.
Did he inspire or try to help Clemont move forward to save Bonnie? Luxio’s capture is still very questionable in my mind especially when Clemont constantly being portrayed Ash’s second. Other things I don’t want to mention because ~controversy~.I was in love with Ash at the beginning of XY, loved Froakie and Pikachu and Fletchling and everything about Ash. It’s just crap kept becoming suspicious and more bullshit just kept showing up and getting added and added. He accumulated a lot of traits and things that make me dislike or at least somewhat cynical toward him around 50% of the time he’s in focus. Yeah, that’s a very bad thing in my book and I’m being as real as possible when I say these things.
*takes a huge breath!*
tl;dr I need Ash to be flawed, real with Pokemon, failing, being called out on those flaws, learning, not being praised/worshiped/idolized vain-gloriously written anymore and as someone who effects characters around him in a good way that doesn’t come back to tell us how great he is. Because who is Ash Ketchum if not someone flawed and needing to learn? Team Squirtle rule and we need more of them and them to really be portrayed as good as they are written and characterized(rivals getting slaughtered in everything in the camp arc. oh joy), Clemont needs to get back on the road to glory post-gym. Korrina needs to appear again and maybe focus with another character(Clemont, perhaps since he played a role in her third episode? Tag back for his help before. Battle Chateau, maybe?) and Bonnie is still a national treasure to this anime.
