wait if ivypool is daughter of lionblaze but secret child of jayfeather does that mean that the Po3 basically repeated leafpool’s whole thing? like leafpool had Po3 and passed them off as squirrelflight’s kits. then jayfeather and poppyfrost had Dove-Ivy kits and passed them off as lionblaze’s children? holy shit
Yep. Each one of the Three have a sobering moment in Cruel Season where, suddenly, they understand their parents more than they ever did before.
Lionblaze is in a gutwrenching state after rescuing his mother and siblings from Ashfur during the fire scene, the blood of his mentor on his claws and everything he'd ever known pulled out from beneath him. When Hollyleaf reveals the secret at the Gathering and the Clans turn on Squirrelflight and Leafpool, he jumps to their defense. Bramblestar disowns him, and he spits back that he only has a mother-- Squirrelflight.
He's the same Lionblaze he was yesterday, but suddenly, he's HalfClan. There's cats in the Clan who are treating him differently. When he confronts them about it, they deny it. He didn't change at all, but it's as if the eyes of his Clanmates did.
For him, it comes quickly. This is what Squilf and Leafpool were trying to protect him from, all along.
Sometimes, secrets are very precious things.
Jayfeather takes longer, probably because he was already treated as different. Brambleclaw had never been as close to him as he was to his siblings. What really starts his path is the fact that Leafpool was stripped of her status-- he's still relatively new to this, but now he's ThunderClan's sole Cleric.
To deal with the stress, he starts to rely more and more on Poppyfrost. It's traitorous. It's codebreaking. It's a relief.
Everyone forgets how lonely Leafpool was at the end of TNP, when she turned to Crowfeather. Her friends had started spending their time with their love interests. She was a lake away from Mothwing. It was a new place and a stressful time, and Crowfeather was an escape from that. Just like what Poppyfrost is now.
The difference is that Jayfeather really, truly does love Poppyfrost. He always has. Probably always will.
When she finds out she's pregnant, it's like a curse. It's the cruelest thing that StarClan could have done to them. He'll NEVER give up the position of a Cleric, and Poppyfrost finds out that he will choose this over a life with her. Reality comes crashing back down.
No one hates irony more than Jayfeather. So he tries to consider it a bitter lesson, instead. This is why Leafpool did what she did.
And Hollyleaf... Hollyleaf has been taught that it's her job to keep her brothers in line. That the Code cannot protect itself; it must be enforced to stop the past from happening again.
She learns of the plan through Cinderheart, by way of her accidentally spilling the beans. Hollyleaf snaps, convinced that the only way to stop her cursed family from breaking the code again is to try and kill them.
Attacking Jayfeather in the tunnels and being fought off by Lionblaze, Sol rescues her from a cave-in and begins the events of Hollyleaf's Century.
again looking over the reworked history
what the hell happened with Ripwater, I wanna know. What *was* that? How did Riverclan kill it?
Oooooh, quite a request! Ripwater, Queen of the Lake, one of the episodes of BB!Po3!
Ripwater is a Wels Catfish, the largest freshwater fish in Europe. The biggest specimen EVER caught was just landed last year, in 2023, 9.4 feet long. It wasn't weighed, but smaller fish than this one have broken 300 pounds.
And it's not a good thing that we're catching so many big ones.
Wels catfish are extremely invasive across most of Europe, introduced for anglers who want to land record-setting catches. They're massive, intelligent carnivores, sometimes called the "freshwater orca" because they will lunge out of the water to catch land prey. They DESTROY the population of anything big enough to fit in its terrible mouth, including fish, amphibians, and even turtles.
They get that big from a mix of constant food and hot temperature. It's a sign that they're devastating their surroundings, and that nothing has been able to kill them for the decades it takes to get so large.
So of course, some dunderhead put them in British rivers, where they've been spreading upwards ever since. Thankfully they thrive better where it's warmer, so they're not too massive of a threat to BB's modeled regions in Northwestern England, but they're fucking coming.
Ripwater's name isn't an exaggeration. That's how they hunt. They gape their jaw and beat their fins like dragons, creating eddies and currents that suck their hapless prey in. When RiverClan names her, it's because they see her ripping the water in half. I was thinking about her recently, and came up with some new stuff. I'll take a brief break from my drafts to serve up some fragments for you.
[A gray cat with blue eyes, Lakepaw, later BB!Lakeheart, swims in bluegreen water surrounded by lilypads. Below her is the massive shadow of Ripwater, a gigantic Wels Catfish. Its eyes flash in the depths.]
SMALL RECAP OF BB!PO3:
(to set the stage)
It is now a breather arc, just dedicated to some worldbuilding!
I feel pretty strongly that Po3's strength is how AWESOME of a slice-of-life arc it could have been. To this end, I removed the Kin of your Kin prophecy from it, until it's revealed only at the very end just before Cruel Season.
That's so I can focus on The Three and their adventures around the lake, without this big prophecy looming over them and making the lower-stakes conflicts look small.
Instead, the various episodes of Po3 are related to problems that their new home presents, with just a teeny bit of Sol's magical influence to spice things up.
While Lionpaw learns about the "meaning of strength" and ultimately learns a terrible lesson he will extend to his kits, and Jaypaw finds his limits and learns to prevent others from defining them for him, Hollypaw is grappling with Fire Alone and how to reconcile her grandfather's legacy with her strict dedication to the Warrior Code.
And SO we find ourselves in one of the earliest episodes of BB!Po3; Ripwater the River Demon. This is like... episode 3 or 4, it's a REALLY early one.
I'm just shuffling it around with ANOTHER RiverClan-centric episode; the Shinewater Plague. The oilspill from TNP is now going to be bumped up to Po3 so it's more about establishing Mothwing and her apprentice Willowpaw, to contrast Leafpool and her apprentice Hollypaw, before Holly swaps to being a warrior. Jaypaw completes warrior training before becoming a Cleric apprentice.
So I don't want them to be TOO close together. Maybe put Ripwater in Book 2 and have RiverClan comment that they don't really want to ask for help because of the last big event, Mistystar hates feeling indebted to ThunderClan.
After all, it could basically replace the "flood" episode from Canon Po3, which is often forgotten about anyway. I'm already having ShadowClan construct dams instead of RiverClan anyway...
ANYWAY RIPWATER
I want to start this episode off with Sol/Harry, who is unnamed, messing around near water. He has a bit of a fish motif going on that I want to establish, and I need to get him to start messing with the Clans good and early.
(Specifically his motif is going back and forth between the koi, also an invasive and notably domesticated species, and the atlantic salmon which is famous for its changing life cycle.)
The Wels Catfish is an invasive species to England, slowly making its way up the island from the South. The fish who will become Ripwater, at this point, is already HUGE but not cat-swallowing huge. She's an 80-pounder.
Sol hits her with some godly magic, which allows her to grow at a rapid rate.
The sort of thing where it wouldn't be COMPLETELY implausible. He just... helped it along.
When we get to her first true on-screen appearance interacting with RiverClan, she is nearly 300 pounds of monstrosity with a length of about 8 feet
I'm unsure how, exactly, ThunderClan comes to know of this. But I DO know that I want Hollypaw to be snooping, and heavily encouraged by her mentor Brackenfur to do so. So, somehow, SOMETHING starts going wrong across the lake and ThunderClan catches wind of it.
Thinking about it, this should probably be her first big action after swapping out of Cleric apprenticeship.
One of the few things she's missing about Clerichood is the way she could be close to Willowpaw without needing to sneak around so much. It's easier to just pass it off as "friendship" and "Clerics need to be close." Leafpool and Mothwing are a similar way.
Possibly work in that Hollypaw's also already seeing Heatherpaw in the tunnels, contrast the two things...
At this point, Hollypaw has a crush on Willowpaw, which is requited, but... it's kinda fading.
She still loves her like a friend, but she's liking Heatherpaw a lot more. It doesn't mean she doesn't CARE for Willowpaw, of course, but
Willowpaw is still IN love, and it's slowly becoming unrequited, when it didn't used to be.
And from RiverClan's POV...
The first disappearance is so sudden they have no idea what's happened. I'm planning for it to be Robinpaw.
(I go back and forth on if it's Robinpaw or Dapplepaw, but I'm leaning towards Robinpaw again, because I like Dapplenose too much to have her get killed off here.)
She went out clamming in the lake with her sisters, Lakepaw and Otterpaw, there was a swirl in the water, and that was it. She was gone.
Just like that.
She never came back up. RiverClan searched for her, following the currents, checking the shoreline, everything. It was like she vanished.
Mistystar is suspicious and doing everything in her power to figure out what happened, but... let's face it. It's the word of two apprentices, who were swimming alone, who swear Robinpaw just went under.
Misty JUST got done with the Shinewater Plague and isn't trying to make RiverClan look like it can't keep track of its own young. The most likely situation is that Robinpaw was sucked down by an undertow that the three of them were too inexperienced to recognize.
So... she's pretty adamant about not sharing this information until Robinpaw's body is found. Jaws Style. "We cannot let the other Clans be alarmed by this, else they might meddle in our affairs..."
(and she's still maybe a little paranoid that some snoop in another Clan is going to find out that Leopardstar wasn't killed by a rogue, y'know.)
I don't want it to be TOO much of a bloodbath, so I'm capping Ripwater's body count at three and just aiming for two deaths total.
I'm also going for a coincidence RiverClan is going to interpret as a pattern; this happens a lot, specifically, when they're hunting Freshwater Pearl Mussels.
Ripwater doesn't like the river as much as she likes the lake, but it has nothing to do with their clamming. They're just going to interpret it as such.
Anyway.
The next one she goes after was lucky. By some stroke, she opens her jaw, and the victim is able to grab onto something before they're sucked in. (Maybe toss in something here were it was Holly who was able to help save them.)
Since the WHOLE Po3 Apprentice Generation is going to be getting more focus, there needs to be more input from the RiverClan apprentices. Lakepaw and Otterpaw obviously need time here, but I also NEED to involve Ripplepaw, to establish how he's going to be seen as one of the strongest in RiverClan by OotS.
EDIT FROM THE FUTURE AS I FIGURED STUFF OUT:
It was Ripplepaw, Otterpaw, and their two mentors on a raft who were attacked next. They were fishing for mussels in a shallower part of the lake.
Otterpaw was tethered to the raft with a flax lead, so it wouldn't float off. Or just tugging it in her mouth. Either way she had a line.
When Ripwater attacks her, she is swallowed on the line like a worm on a hook
And it starts pulling the WHOLE RAFT down, just a crummy bundle of sticks
One of the mentors started shouting to cut the line, else it would drag all of them under, but Ripplepaw dives right down to beat its ass without telling them he's not gonna cut it
Hollypaw just rushed right in, didn't think about it, forgetting she was supposed to be trying to sneak around
Taking control as the natural leader she is, she ordered them to shut up and start pulling the opposite way
Underwater, Ripplepaw braced himself against the fish's lips, grabs Otter's tether, and YANKS
Abovewater, the adult warriors are pulling together, Holly grabs the raft and pulls too
Once their paws touch the bottom of the shallows it's over, one last HEAVE-HO and POP!
Otterpaw is FREE
And when it's finally known that the apprentices weren't mistaken, there's a monster in the water, THAT'S when the debate really starts up. Mistystar does NOT want ThunderClan meddling, and she'll already be pissed off that Hollypaw (and any OTHERS who tagged along with her, I wouldn't put it past Honeypaw to wriggle her little yellow butt into a later draft, or Lionpaw for his massive strength) witnessed something that's not her business.
There's a moment from canon I desperately want to keep; where Squirrelflight comes to fetch her daughter.
(more reason to just say this is replacing The Flood Episode from canon lmao)
It's such an interesting moment, and so forgotten. In a nutshell, Squilf is both furious and concerned that her kit went missing and meddled in another Clan's affairs, but... understands the impulse.
Because it's something she would have done.
So when she scolds Hollypaw, there's this aching feeling that she's scolding a younger version of herself. Calling her arrogant and disloyal, that an apprentice's opinions mean less, and that she needs to listen to "older and wiser" warriors within her own Clan.
In BB, I want to do something big with this. Firestar is the figurehead of Fire Alone, who encouraged Hollypaw's behavior through his deputy, Brackenfur, who he set as her mentor for a reason.
But Squirrelflight is being abused. By Brambleclaw.
This is one of the lowest points in Squirrelflight's life, and she is walking a line between self-worth, the warrior code, and her personal beliefs, just like her daughter is.
SO, since I'm already using Brambleclaw's enabling of Ashfur's physical abuse as one of the contributing factors to Hollyleaf's descent, I ALSO want to show how he acts on other characters.
Brambleclaw, Clan Culture, the pressures of their strength-obsessed social system. So it's gotta be Squirrelflight that reminds her, or even plants the seed in her head;
"What you did isn't consistent with the Warrior Code."
Maybe even have Mistystar herself state this earlier, to be echoed by Squirrelflight, offering an alternate perspective to Hollypaw. Make her realize that ThunderClan's political leanings are not universal or even popular.
But when Hollypaw comes back to ThunderClan, whoever set her to be a snoop wants her to spill the beans. This is also a big WIP part, as Hollypaw struggles with if she's going to obey or not, and I still need to set all the political "players" in this moment.
I know for sure, though, that Firestar's IMMEDIATE desire is to meddle like it's an episode of Scooby-Doo. Though he's savvy enough to be smart about how he phrases it and what actions he takes, his ultimate goal is to put his little cheeto-dust paws all over this. And Hollypaw is starting to question how appropriate that actually is.
This is where it starts to really be a rip in Holly's mind. Clans aren't JUST big, blanket groups with united opinions, they're collections of individuals. Mistystar doesn't want meddling, but Willowpaw is in danger. Otterpaw and Lakepaw went all that time without being believed, after they watched their sister die, because they're lowly apprentices like her. Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw are angry and disappointed, while Firestar and Brackenfur are secretly lathering her in praise.
Now imagine me standing in front of a big board where I'm writing ??? because there's a missing chunk here.
I need to connect THIS part to what comes next, which is where ThunderClan DOES come in and help out. Here's the thought process going on in RiverClan;
Willowpaw comes in to do something important. She adores Hollypaw, knows her value as a Cleric, and knows that StarClan can sway Mistystar.
I want her to have a couple of pieces of a vision... BUT. She decides to interpret it in a way that's convenient, and add a few details.
It's not a tooootal lie lmao. It's just 75% true.
This is the true power of Clerics, when they realize it. No one can actually challenge them without just ignoring them or stripping them of power. They are accountable to StarClan alone.
A mentor simply doesn't say this out loud to their apprentice. It's a quiet secret. And Willowpaw just realized it.
and thinking about it... this should be the thing that finally breaks the budding romance Holly and Willow had. Holly is sickened by this, when Willow confesses how she convinced RiverClan to work with ThunderClan.
But, without even being a full Warrior, the apprentice leverages her power as Cleric of RiverClan, and 200 skill points of Improv Acting, to tell them these things;
"StarClan is so angry with us that they've sent a hog to the water! It's why they've sent a ThunderClan apprentice, we must work with them to eliminate the beast that lurks in our waters. With spears and plans, we must hunt it honorably!"
(Mistystar is defensive, but it's not known why) "We haven't disobeyed StarClan in any way. We'd already accepted their help once before, when sickness drove us to weakness, and it's only let them think they can disrespect our borders as they please. This can't be the holy will of our ancestors."
"It's-- We've been disrespecting this bountiful new land that they've so generously given us. That's what the pile of shells in my dream was. Think about it! The last attack was on the shore where we collect mussels. The second attack was on a cat latched to a raft, and it was only the tether that saved them. And the first..."
IVE GOT AN IDEA, Robin, Lake, and Otter WEREN'T clamming when they were attacked. She gestures over to Lake, knowing that if she doesn't back her up, the theory crumbles.
(Otter is in the Cleric's den, unconscious.)
Lake hesitates, not wanting to lie. Willow jumps back in,
"It's why Otterpaw was attacked," does those little jazz-hands to be like 'come in bitch work with me,' "And it's why Lakepaw has to be involved in killing it, to end what she started, and appease StarClan."
Lakepaw more like I LIKE-what-you-just-saidpaw, "It's true, we were so ashamed to admit it, Mistystar, this is all MY fault, I wanted my siblings to dig up mussels, PLEASE let me atone by stabbing the fish to death"
AND AFTER THAT IT'S NOODLIN' TIME
Mistystar, begrudgingly, accepts Firestar's help, or perhaps reaches out to him. Ripwater is a "Hog in the Lake," a beast too big for them to kill honorably on their own.
ThunderClan is the ONLY Clan that uses spears, and only for boar hunts. To protect themselves and to give their quarry a quicker death.
No other Clan touches weapons for dishonor reasons, as they're heavily associated with the demon Shredtail.
I should have Willowpaw explain her half-truth to Hollypaw here, and it's where Hollypaw just... so very suddenly can't look at Willowpaw the same way.
Jaypaw would definitely face an ableist moment from someone, but it's going to have to be one of those times where he accepts that there IS a very real limit to his ability here. Spears are range-weapons and his whiskers don't reach that far. He can't tell where he's stabbing, and the water is going to make it too hard to smell where Ripwater's dangerous mouth is. He can't be chosen for this hunt.
Meanwhile Lionpaw learns from Willowpelt how to make a spear and it is one of the most satisfying things he's ever done in his life, he's like "this is so awesome oh my god i love weapons"
just gently setting up that he's going to eventually become ThunderClan's head of hunting, and also that he's a lil violent
I feel like him and Lakepaw should hit it off a little because they both think the idea of stabbing a fish in the face is super cool, only for someone to growl at them that they shouldn't be enjoying themselves so much
Maybe Blackclaw, fuck that guy
(absolute tangent but BB!Lionblaze is kind of evolving into a little dork and I love that for him. Local himbo only capable of making friends or enemies, all Clanwide opinions on him are polarized, more at 11)
THE PLAN
So how DO they kill that thing? First of all, it's all about strategy.
Immediately they started making a couple of specialized spears. Most spears they make are exclusively for boar-hunting, so they have a distinctive "lug" that prevents a boar from impaling itself down the shaft to get you.
Someone in RiverClan explains that you don't want a fish having the chance to get off a claw. If Ripwater escapes, they might not find her again until she kills someone else
The solution is that these need to be custom-made, with special claw-shaped prongs, so they're chevron ^ shapes instead of tear-drop points. They stab in, and don't pull out.
So they need to make spears from scratch, which is an intensive process, and they don't have time to waste. RiverClan doesn't want to hunt by water that has a chance of having a freshwater orca spawn and drag you in; they'll starve
And there's only so many artisans in TC that can MAKE spears. Glue, twine, shafts, blades... these are all things that take hours of labor to create.
And MORE IMPORTANTLY, they realized from the Raft Rescue that a tether, attached to a floating object, can be very useful. Each weapon has rope tied through it and is tethered to a raft-- which is even MORE intensive, RiverClan had to repurpose several nets to create so many lines, and they only own three rafts, so the rest have driftwood.
So they only have time to create 3 special water-spears, and bring in 2 modified boar-spears.
Lionpaw is like visibly disappointed he can't have one lmao
The only apprentice given a spear is... Lakepaw. And it's a boar-spear
Because she's gonna be bait. They believe the litter is cursed for their "sin" and she'll be the next target.
But still, they chum up the water near the last sighting with blood and crowfood, like hog slop, and wait.
(Heavy WIP stuff here as we get to a play-by-play I haven't fully figured out yet)
Their plan is to get it on the shore as quickly as possible.
Four cats could pull Otterpaw from its mouth, so 5 spearcats and a dozen strong warriors could pull it onto the shore. Surely.
shorely.
It comes as expected, lunging at Lakepaw. She leaps back and tries to use her spear on it, but she is NOT properly trained with it, she stabs its face, but can't break the skull
RiverClan manages to toss a net at the beast, but it's NOT heavy enough
And they managed to get LAKEPAW with it, pressing her to the beast, her spear is dropped into the water
Someone shouts that it swims like an eel, able to just reverse course unlike a REAL fish which must turn
In the panic, warriors start mobbing it.
she thrashes, and splashes and the net is barely holding her back at all
She smashes a warrior with her tail, buffs another with her powerful head
She's stabbed in her side by a ThunderClan warrior (probably Sandstorm), and she turns on the raft they're standing on, breeching and SMASHING it to bits. Lionpaw and the rest of the cats on this raft get dunked
In the water, ThunderClan cats are useless, and RiverClan cats can't properly handle spears.
Someone from RiverClan, probably Blackclaw, tries to free Lakepaw but is scooped up in Ripwater's mouth.
He's screeching and yowling and trying to hold onto its upper jaw, regularly cut off as she dives under
When Willowpelt gets her spear in, she holds onto that damn stick with her LIFE, getting swung around and dunked in the water and then going back up into the air
Thornclaw, holding the other boar-spear, aims for its tail
But it's not enough; Even with several warriors of RiverClan, five spears, a net, and the weight of the two remaining rafts, Ripwater's managing to pull them towards the depths
She's too big to bite, too large to claw, and too strong to hold down
LIONPAW TIME
He grabs the spear that Lakepaw dropped
Ripplepaw seems to zoom right passed him, running away from the fish. He thinks he must be some kind of coward, the fight's NOT OVER YET!! WE NEED TO HELP LAKEPAW
(In a later draft I might have Lionpaw be on the smashed raft, and Ripplepaw brings the spear to him before turning and bolting back to shore. Either way he doesn't explain himself)
He paddles near one of the rafts, and is pulled up onto it
Firestar calls him a WONDERFUL BOY for bringing the spear
Lionpaw mumbles something enthusiastic around the stick in his mouth, wriggles his butt, and jumps back into the water
Grabbing the net sticking to Ripwater and using it like tree bark, he pulls himself on
Bites the spear by the lug like a handle
And stabs it in like a knife
But it's already starting to pull out, too shallow
Filled with anger and resolve, he bites the shaft, and PUSHES
Harder and harder and harder until there's a crackle, the twine breaks loose, and the lug snaps
The rest of the spear slips in as if Ripwater's made of butter
Figuring that's probably deep enough, he lets go of the net, breaching the surface, sputtering and hacking
He's about to dive again to go get Lakepaw, but to his surprise, she breaks the water next to him
and then he feels the fish bump his paws
His name is called from the shore, and there's Hollypaw and Ripplepaw waving. Ripplepaw TOOK HIS SPEAR'S ROPE. Like a GUY WHO THINKS.
Now there was a team of cats on the shore, all the spent warriors who got thrown off, pulling Ripwater to the shore.
And from the feeling of slimy fish under his paws, it seemed like her fight had been all but spent.
And more cats were swimming to shore now, with the ropes attached to the other spears.
Once on the shore, they're able to discover that, tragically, Blackclaw has died. Mistystar in particular looks deeply torn by this, as their relationship was notoriously toxic. But still, he had been the father of her children, and drowned trying to save a Clanmate. She jumps up onto the massive fish, giving a speech about sacrifice, how Blackclaw and Robinpaw would be honored, and that RiverClan has learned its valuable lesson.
Ripwater was symbolic; it's the greed they had unleashed upon the lake by over-exploiting one resource. From now on, they would be respectful of StarClan's bounty. She thanks ThunderClan for helping to fulfill a prophecy, and offers that their debt be repaid by splitting the meat of the hunt.
Hollypaw, internally: "Oh she's doing that on purpose. She knows ThunderClan hates fish and it would be rude to refuse."
Firestar: "well. how could we refuse."
Sandstorm, quietly, in the distance: "easily actually ew"
CLOSING STUFF
I kinda want some kind of "epilogue festival" where the two Clans legitimately celebrate with a somewhat somber meal sharing. Some of these episodes in Po3 will result in lasting traditions and holidays that are celebrated annually.
At that little "fish festival," it works for Holly to officially break it off with poor Willow, to leave this episode off on a bit of a sad note.
This was one of the first times Lionpaw's power becomes obvious, and it's the sort of thing that wasn't really noticed. I figure it would be good for Lakepaw to ask how that lug snapped, she could barely even get the spearhead in. Lionpaw just brags and says it must be because he's SUPER STRONG.
For some reason he's just making a ton of friends whenever I write these out, I think I'm going to lean into it. Lionpaw's got friends when he's a kid lmao, starts losing them over time as he gets more violent.
It's probably because I really need a comic relief in The Three's dynamic. Hollypaw is very dramatic, Jaypaw is dealing with legitimately stressful social issues, and Lionpaw is violent. Someone has to lighten the mood up a little and it's probably because he's The California Girl himself lmao
At this fish festival he also discovers fish isn't actually that bad. Everyone's being weird about this. It's not really that slimy. It's got a strong taste but that's kinda nice, actually?
Could use some berries but like... "damn why don't we do this more often. this would go great with blackberries."
Ripplepaw: "You think so? I can taste sweetness, can I try to make it at home and tell you how it works out at the next Gathering?"
Lionpaw: "It's not hard, you just mash the berries and stew them in a little water before pouring it over your meat. I learned it from Willowpelt, she's got a mad sweet tooth."
Lakepaw: "No offense Lionpaw, but I always thought you were a total lunkhead. I never thought you'd like, cook?"
Lionpaw: "I mean not really, I'm an awful cook, I can just make simple stuff. Willowpelt's just nice enough to be patient with me, my mentor Ashfur says if I can learn something anyone can, haha."
Just a nice little moment for him.
Blackclaw is being mourned in the mortal plane, but secretly, getting a SCATHING trial up in StarClan. His death was heroic, but his ENTIRE LIFE was treacherous.
From teaching Hawkfrost to follow in his father's pawsteps, to joining him in WindClan's Civil War, and his constant arguing and undermining of Mistyfoot back when she was just a deputy trying to do the right thing.
He goes on trial for a bunch of things he did in TigerClan, too, facing his victims who took his misdeeds to their graves. He's not the only cat in RiverClan who is getting a review like this.
Leopardstar is already in the Dark Forest, and soon, Blackclaw's sent there too.
I decided to kill off Blackclaw here so he could have a VERY cool Land Mar;
(context: all Dark Forest demons now get a cool little evil playset area just for them, where they spawn into after they're thrown out of StarClan. These are called Land Mars)
It's still unnamed, but it's basically an even BIGGER Ripwater. It goes above and below the river and lakes of the Dark Forest, popping up in any body of water big enough to hold her.
I LOVED hearing about the Ripwater episode!!!! Could you discuss whichever episode that would include Jayfeather‘s warrior training perhaps? If not I’d LOVE to hear about any other!
Jay's warrior training happens across lots of them! He only pivots to being a Cleric near the VERY end of the arc. He's considered fully trained after "saving" Hazeltail by secretly kicking Moleflight's ass.
Jaypaw -> Jayfang -> Jayfeather
Blackstar's Bog Project seems to be the conflict so far that's going to be featuring Jaypaw's training the most, though, the way that most of these episodes end up being centric for one of the three.
Jaypaw will be dominant in ShadowClan-related episodes because his first rival shows up here; Owlpaw, later called Owlclaw.
If you recognize that name, it's either because you know he's the secret brother of Kestrelflight and Harestar, or you remember that he's the father of Weaselkit and Happyface which causes familial problems within Violetshine's adopted family. Noteworthy recurring ShadowClan cat!
Head's up this one's way less organized than Ripwater's
Pre-Bog Project; The beginning of Jaypaw's apprenticeship
Ableism and Longtail
Before Blackstar begins the bog project, I want there to be a decent amount of battle between ShadowClan and ThunderClan.
At the time, The Three are kits or young apprentices. For the most part, they're born into a world where they mostly know ShadowClan as this kinda distant, scary thing that the older warriors fight a lot.
When they become apprentices, it doesn't help that ShadowClan's presence is sharp. They have a very dry, dark sense of humor which can mask bullying. They cite the Warrior Code a lot and take blasphemy seriously. It's not always obvious when they mean what they say or if they're being sarcastic
This is especially bad with ThunderClan cats. Tawnypelt had a REALLY hard time adapting to this culture back in TNP.
there's one major fight Jaypaw takes part in between the two, as a young apprentice. Enter Owlpaw.
It's REALLY important that in this fight, Jaypaw gets his ass kicked.
Owlpaw is the third oldest lakeborn cat. He's big, mean, and vicious. He is a DIFFICULT opponent, he really is an Owl to a Jay at this point.
Bad Bad Leroy Brown type shit
This curbstomp messes with Jaypaw baaaadly, shaking any confidence he'd gained in the short time where he's started training with Longtail.
When Jaypaw FIRST becomes the apprentice of Longtail... it wasn't actually welcome. Jaykit's ceremony was nearly delayed, as if Firestar was just going to pass over him.
An objection was raised, as it was wondered what would happen with Jaykit. The poor kid was put on the spot, when he'd just been expecting to get given a mentor the same as his siblings.
When Firestar and Brackenfur had an awkward answer, Longtail leapt in heroically, demanding to be un-retired so he could come and mentor his grand-nephew.
While most of the Clan saw this as impressive, Jaykit did not. It was humiliating and embarrassing!
It was like they were just going to skip over him, and "the only mentor I could get was another useless cat, like me..."
Jaypaw is dealing with a lot of shame through internalized ableism. It's that kind of sticky misery where you just end up hating everything you touch. NOTHING is good or okay. Everything is awful and if you try to tell me otherwise I will double down.
The type that you can't reason with. So Longtail trying to get through to this kid was already hell.
He was trying to be motivational and uplifting. "We'll prove them wrong, together!" and "Stick with me kid, I'll teach you everything." and "There's lots of ways to be a warrior, we'll find what works best for ya."
It does not work. Jaypaw is determined to hate him, dismissing him as being insincere and fake-nice.
And when that first fight comes up, Jaypaw's spent however long as an apprentice being difficult and his first real matchup is against ShadowClan's Youngest Blender
So of course, Owlpaw toys with him like canon. Keeps dodging and taunting him, making little jabs, commenting on how weak ThunderClan must be to put him out on the battlefield.
After the fight ends, Longtail tries to let Jaypaw mope for a bit about it, lick his wounds, recover.
But he just ends up at his lowest point, and snapping at Longtail that he'll never amount to anything anyway, "a blind warrior isn't worth anything."
And Longtail's LOST his patience. That's IT.
"Get up right now and fight me."
"wh... what?"
"Maybe you're used to everyone else just letting you say whatever dumb thing, but when you insult yourself, you insult ME. And I've got the Right to Challenge over my honor. So GET UP."
Over the course of this fight, Longtail uses it both to coach him on how to properly move, and also to let Jaypaw blow off steam. He taunts him to just let his claws out, while keeping his own sheathed.
And during all this, Jay can barely get a hit in. The fight ends with Longtail easily pinning him to the ground, and he reminds him,
"Don't wanna be a blind warrior? Fine. I can't teach what you don't want to learn, you tell me and we'll find other options, but if I EVER hear those words come out of your mouth again, it's personal."
And after THAT, it clicks for Jaypaw. It's personal. Longtail didn't need to do any of it, stand up for him, mentor him, he wants to.
When he insults himself, or when he thinks of Longtail like he was some cheap option, it hits both of them.
Longtail is an excellent warrior-- and a warrior defends their honor.
Still, Owlpaw remains, and these aren't just internalized thoughts only he has, "don't get mad at me for insulting your honor. I was just repeating what Owlpaw said to me. He said a blind warrior isn't worth anything at all. And it's like the whole Clan agrees, but they just don't say it."
"Then we'll kick his ass," removes his paw from his apprentice's back, "We'll kick all their asses. But you're not going to go around agreeing with them before you even learn how to fight."
The grand irony of this is that after making this promise to kick Owlpaw's ass, having this as a goal in-mind, Firestar begins the fruitful negotiations with ShadowClan which will result in a period of sweet peace. There aren't any battles to get into between them for a while.
So Owlpaw continues to be this sort of "goal" on the horizon. Jaypaw wants revenge against this specific person, while also being forced to work with him at various points, as ShadowClan is their ally.
Something interesting I plan to do is to secretly write Breezepaw as being a MUCH stronger fighter than Owlpaw ever was. Owlpaw is big and strong, but it's BREEZEPAW who's the truly vicious fighter of the Po3 apprentice generation. A cat that Jaypaw faces off with several times, and has a difficult time fighting because of Breeze's aggressive, straightforward fighting style.
Jaypaw fights best against cats who try to get out of his grapples, because he can turn it against them. When a cat is so ferocious that they don't relent at all, meeting him with even more biting and scratching, it effectively counters his unique style.
Between his brawls with Lionpaw and Breezepaw, Jaypaw has no idea how overleveled he is lmao
Bog Project
There's two times that I want to zoom into the Bog Project in Po3.
The first one is when they FIRST construct the dam that destroys the pine plantation, including an altercation with human plantation workers who come to try and dismantle the dam. The Clan cats run circles around them as the humans are too heavy to not sink into the mud. I want someone to jump off the dam, bounce off a person and knock them over with a SPLAT, and then jump back on the dam in one smooth movement lmaoo
(Switch over to the researchers for a second and they're actually scrambling to get the area turned into a different classification of protected site during this. Unknown to ShadowClan, they really do just have to buy some time.)
The SECOND time is when they're simply repairing some damage, Owlpaw starts a fight with Jaypaw and swings the first blow, and Jaypaw realizes it's time to take this man to Clown Town.
The fight begins while they're up on the dam, trying to figure out where a leak is or some other minor thing.
Owlpaw starts REALLY getting into it with Jaypaw. "I can't believe they put me up here with you. It's like they want you to have a little accident so I can say I have no idea what happened."
I'm REALLY TORN between Jaypaw either playing this as peacefully as possible, so it's completely Owlpaw's fault they got into it... or realizing he can totally goad this fight and then be able to say it wasn't his fault because Owlpaw threatened him first: "Bold of you to talk about little accidents. Ur mom"
I'm leaning towards Jaypaw goading it after Owlpaw started it, realizing that snark is a very useful tool. Thinking back to how he used to call himself useless, how Longtail used it to make him unload all his pent-up anger and aggression. It has a purpose.
and that purpose, right now, is making an opportunity to put this git in his proper place.
But either way, when Owlpaw starts lashing out at him, SO much like that first fight, Jay notices something REALLY interesting
Owl always tries to stay out of the line of his whiskers. The blows are hard clobbers, but he's not really scratching because he doesn't want to get close
Jaypaw stays perfectly still, UNNERVINGLY still, and takes one, two whacks. Then he knows that his opponent favors his right paw, and he's about... 2 mouselengths away.
Owl lifts his paw again, and in one, smooth move, JAYPAW LUNGES
Caught square in the belly, they roll back along the wall
Owl recovers, twisting onto his opponent, hissing and scratching to untangle, and they tumble right off the side in a clattering shower of sticks and daub
They make a SPLORCH as their bodies splatter the mud below them
"THE GIRLS ARE FIGHTING" -Lionpaw probably
The entire construction crew gathers around. "FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!"
Owlpaw seems to be getting wise, trying to wriggle out of the grapple to win back distance, but Jay hears Longtail's words of wisdom echoing in his head
"To know his own limits,"
He never lets his opponent out of range of his whiskers, Owl breaks away only to expose his back to a vicious opponent
Jaypaw grabs his foe by the neck, rears up and dunks his face down in the mud. SPLAT!
"AND EXPLOIT THEIRS"
Owlpaw screeches in rage, snorting muck out of his nose, blinded
The big bully has no idea to slow down and think about where the blows are coming from, or anticipate how his opponent moves.
Jaypaw's jaws close down viciously on his shoulder, and in a flash, he's wrapped around him like a snake.
Trying to buck him off is only causing Owlpaw to sink into the mud
Jaypaw only releases his lock long enough to command; "SAY UNCLE"
Terrified, like a rabbit with a weasel with its fangs dangerously close to its pulse, he obeys; "UNCLE!!"
Jaypaw disentangles and hops off, and it's only now that he registers the size of the crowd.
Hazelpaw, Poppypaw, Cinderpaw, both of his siblings, every ShadowClan apprentice, plus all the warriors who were assigned to the project
Most are cheering, others murmur with awe or hiss with frustration, Owlpaw's mentor is helping him out of the mud, asking him what the hell happened back there
Jay is GLOWERING. He can't help the smug smile that paints his face, or the pride that washes through his veins, though he nonchalantly flicks the mud off his tail.
but the gloating is cut short. Longtail's rough tongue passes over a swelling lump next to Jaypaw's eye, and a little cut he didn't realize he'd gotten had started to sting.
"Knock it off!" He grumbles, doing nothing to stop him, "you're embarassing me!"
"Embarassing?! I'm so proud out of my fur I just might cry about it and embarass you even more!"
In the aftermath, Owlpaw is the one who gets blamed for the fight on the wall. Though Longtail freely admits that his apprentice can be rude, Owlpaw is the one who escalated it to blows.
That said, no one really "gets in trouble" for it. It's written off by both Blackstar and Firestar as an "apprentices will be apprentices" moment. BB!Battle cats can have battles without holding a formal hearing in parliament about it.
What DOES happen that Jaypaw finds bizarre is that when he gets home and the news spreads, Bramblestar is one of the first cats to start gloating. He feels odd about how odd he feels about it.
But after his father has given his ear a proud lick and explains the situation to Squirrelflight who gives a proud lick to the other one, Jaypaw examines the feeling. He tries to think of other times Brambleclaw has been this proud of him, and that's when it clicks; there are none.
Lionpaw is an accomplished fighter at this point, having landed the fatal blow onto Ripwater. Hollypaw is at the forefront of nearly every diplomacy meeting alongside her mentor, Brackenfur. But Jaypaw.. well, most of his brawls have been little skirmishes. Not really "achievements."
It's not like Brambleclaw has been absent or anything, so... he's not yet sure what to do with this feeling. It's quickly buried as the other apprentices dogpile him, begging for the full details.
Assorted closing thoughts for other episodes and such;
Jaypaw's power is plane-hopping. He can move freely between supernatural realms-- dreams, heaven, hell, Earth. He can interact, physically, with anything on these planes.
No more magic empathy. Society has progressed past the need for magic empathy.
He's going to get several little moments in other episodes where he helps to heal others, especially when Cinderheart breaks her leg.
Becoming a Cleric is a choice that should have significant build-up, since he chooses it over Poppyfrost.
I think the REAL inciting moment that he decides to commit to the bit is that he ends up having some kind of dream where Moleflight (Poppyfrost's ill-fated brother) visits him, just after getting his warrior name, and Mole says, "you will be an excellent warrior."
Jayfang: "theres no way youre just being nice to me. What are you trying to stop me from doing."
He also really likes giving advice and listening to people. Enjoys a good little debate, but I kinda want to show him visibly sharpening his emotional intelligence as Po3 goes on.
It starts with Longtail, who whittles that aimless cynicism into something earnest and constructive.
I also want to work in some scenes where Longtail explains to Jaypaw how much he reminds him of Swiftpaw, his "uncle."
Sootfur too, sometimes. In the humor.
Jay: "Great track record, two dead kids."
Longtail, very quiet... only to break the tense silence himself, "Sootfur, no. Swiftpaw... yes. I should have been a better mentor."
Everyone knows a mentor is meant to teach an apprentice. But Longtail realizes that an apprentice is meant to teach their mentor, too.
And he wouldn't be worthy to guide another paw if he hadn't learned his lessons from Swiftpaw.
"I taught him to ignore his limits. I made him think that he had to "prove" himself to be worth anything. It was something my mentor taught me, which was something his mentor taught him. Jaypaw, there's going to be things you can't do, and when they come, you'll hate me for stopping you. But I'm not here to raise another brave fool who dies to prove a point."
Jaypaw also meets Rock at various points through BB!Po3, especially when StarClan isn't being straightforward about answers or they end up in the tunnels.
Rock is VERY gentle with Jaypaw, but no one else. If Jaypaw hadn't been in the tunnels that time the WindClan kits went missing, he probably would have just left them all to drown lmao
The first hint The Three discover about their powers, and the prophecy at all, comes through Jaypaw inadvertently ending up realm-hopping. I'm keeping it on standby for him gaining access to information through dreams.
Before he eventually pressures Dovepaw to spy on other Clans, he was using his own powers to gather what info he could.
Thankfully, he doesn't discover how much power this actually grants him, or what he can consciously do with this, until OotS.
How does Whitewater feel about her “cursed” kits being leader and medicine cat? Does she feel like Windclan is now cursed as well? Does she feel regret? Is she upset Owlclaw never rose to power like they did?
WindClan is cursed. She begins to feel that sort of slow-burn fear that ferments into furious bigotry-- and Owlclaw is the one who suffers for it.
When she brought the two bigger kittens out into the storm that night, she left Owlkit behind out of a sense of... some kind of warmth. She didn't want the helpless thing to die. As time passes, she starts to think maybe that's what she should have done when she had the chance.
Maybe that storm was meant to kill it.
We aren't our thoughts, we are our actions, but a thought indulged is future actions taken. She thinks about that every time she squirms in discomfort from looking at him. Guilt jabs her when she thinks about how his father is Mudclaw, how she hypocritically was going to invoke Queen’s Rights which she hates so much. Going into the nursery feels like walking into a jail cell. This wouldn't be happening if that storm had killed him.
Every time she has that reflexive, negative feeling towards her kitten, she lets that thought linger a little longer. That storm should have killed you.
She doesn't realize this, but this is an excuse. If the storm was supposed to kill this kitten, now this isn't HER terrible intrusive thought. SHE isn't believing something so cruel. It was maybe fate. It was perhaps StarClan trying to help her. These feelings are natural. Justified. The reason; That Storm Should Have Killed Him.
Oh. But no one else could possibly take Owlkit. She is his Mi, she would never (admit she has a problem) force him onto someone else. This is her (punishment) responsibility.
Of COURSE he developed behavioral issues. He's known as a big bully and a bit of a loner. Owlkit learned quickly that asking for help gets him hit, and Owlpaw quickly became very distant from his mother. Whitewater didn't "chase" him-- and that hurt too.
He's definitely closer to his mentor, thankfully. Blackstar knew Owlpaw was going to need someone capable of handling a difficult apprentice, who would do a good job of integrating him properly into the Clan by establishing connections to other warriors. So he got Oakfur.
And the ones in WindClan...
Kestrelflight was put into the Cleric's den early. Barkface died in a mine collapse in BB!TNP, so as soon as it was demonstrated he had a connection to StarClan he was shoved in, too young. To Whitewater, the realization churns in her belly, making her heart race with fury (and satisfaction, her biases confirmed) that Onestar is breaking the code to train a kit before its 6th moon.
Damned WindClan! They claim to be so pious but their priest is a child! Kestrelpaw will be their downfall. This must be their punishment.
Harespring is a clumsy warrior, terrible when he fights other cats. Too gentle. Too anxious that he will hurt others. Surely useless to WindClan. Whitewater doesn't live long enough to see Harestar, but if she watches the ceremony from StarClan, she revels in her smug bitterness.
From her position, she'd be able to see that his plan to defy Onestar and rescue Kin cats wasn't entirely his own. His mate Heathertail was the organizer, the one who brought all those cats together. This must be WindClan's punishment-- that he took the lives that were surely meant for a leader as competent as her.
ougghhh everyone’s talking so fondly about lionpaw and his new friendships made by the ripwater event but all i can think about is his mention of ashfur’s comment. and how lion probably thinks it’s just a little joke but ash might actually mean it :(
There's this little pearl of a theme hidden in the Ripwater Episode, if you look carefully; abuse acts on people in insidious but subtle ways.
It's Mistystar who's defensive of asking for help or admitting a problem, thinking of what she did to Leopardstar and also repeating cultural sentiment that once victimized her herself.
It's Squirrelflight shouting at her daughter for acting like she used to, because she's spent some years being yelled at in a similar way
It's Hollypaw who isn't allowed to enjoy her achievement of saving Otterpaw's life or lean into how much she has in common with Lakepaw, because she's ashamed of how she did something "wrong" by snooping
And lastly, it's Lionpaw, who's starting to believe the vicious comments that Ashfur says about him. I referenced Willowpelt partially for the sweet little irony of him teaching her recipe to her unknown grandson, Ripplepaw, but ALSO because Ashfur is starting to isolate him.
Willowpelt is the Head of Hunting, currently, a position that Lionblaze is going to succeed her in. I don't think Ashfur is playing 4D chess quite yet, but there's a couple of little motivations knocking around in Ashfur's heart for why he's nasty whenever Lionpaw interacts with her;
Ashfur hates Willowpelt, because of the events from Ferncloud's Parting. He isn't aggressive to her directly, but he does spread rumors and slander whenever possible, happy to remind others of her exile.
Lionpaw getting close to Willowpelt will annoy him. Ashfur both hates and resents his apprentice, but also feels POSSESSIVE of him. He feels like Willowpelt will "steal" what's his.
A simple but hard truth; Ashfur wants Lionpaw to hurt. Maybe Ashfur sees it in his head like "telling the hard truth" or "toughening his apprentice up," but when he makes those malicious little comments, makes him recoil with hurt, it feels righteous.
Maybe in the next draft, it should actually be Ashfur, not Blackclaw, who comes to growl at Lionpaw for bonding with Lakepaw over the spears. Maybe have Willowpelt come in to show them how to properly use one and that's actually what set Ash off. Like he just used xenophobia because it was convenient in that moment.
Is Crowfeather's parenting and abuse of Breeze going to be any different and/or handled differently by other cats in BB? Thinking about his honor title being for Feathertail and... ugh this poor woman having to watch a cat who named himself for his love for her be so horrible to his own kin after she's torn from hers so soon. She should get to come down and knock some sense into him, if that's even possible
I haven't been able to get into BB!Feathertail yet, but she's fascinating honestly. I like the vibe that Feather x Crow is like this cosmically doomed ship, destined to torpedo itself time and time again for various reasons, and that's the foundation of them in BB.
They were NEVER going to work. Crowfoot has a ton of issues he's working through. Feathertail values herself too much to allow him to mistreat her in the meanwhile. If Feathertail never died, the breakup would have been good for him. He REALLY needed it, actually. Calm, funny, easygoing Feathertail just laying their problems on the table, why she doesn't want a relationship, but still spinning it in that way-of-hers that softens a hard blow.
It wouldn't have fixed him overnight, of course. It just would have been a spark. Paws on a better, happier path. Not a lover in another Clan, but a friend, if he took her words to heart.
But she's dead. She died horribly. And her memory is this perfect fantasy for the magical, flawless love they could have had, an impossible standard Crowfeather viciously holds all of his future lovers to. So as a spirit guide, with all her eloquence, she'd say to him, "That's not very cash money of you."
But anyway, on Breeze's abuse.
For one, I absolutely would want to make sure to stress Breeze's good qualities sooner and harder, and explicitly make them friends at certain points.
The Tribe Journey in particular, where there's a lot of opportunities to get him away from Crowfeather. By the end of it, I would want to include a poignant moment where they have one final nice moment together, before Crowfeather barks for him, and it's gone.
(and, also, add a couple of cats who help The Three discuss their complicated emotions towards seeing their bully being abused.)
I would also actually remove the way that the cats of WindClan "look to" Crowfeather on how Breezepelt should be treated, particularly from Crowfeather's Trial. I feel it misses the point and ends up saying that Breezepelt could NEVER get the social approval he craves unless his abusive dad CHOSE to stop mistreating him.
Like!! FUCK no!!! You do NOT need the approval of a guy who NEVER would have given it without 3 different women and Onestar screaming it into his ear!
Instead, I'd stress how the Clan was beginning to turn on him as soon as his problems escalated into active reckless endangerment. His abuse was causing his social alienation by making his behavior worse and worse.
That seems like a minor change, but it's one of my bigger complaints. ALL of WindClan shouldn't be looking to an abusive parent to model how they'll react to his son. PLEASE let the cats have their own unique social opinions.
One of Breezepelt's adult defenders is Brushblaze. I will be picking more-- but there's always going to be some cats in his corner besides Nightcloud and Heathertail (and Harestar of course who is poly with Heather and Breeze in BB.)
(though Pro-Breeze cats are in the minority unfortunately.)
MOST of the Dark Forest trainees from WindClan were personal friends of Breezepelt. Harespring, Sunstrike, Furzepelt, and Antpelt all came into the training because of him.
All that said, not much else is different about the setup of Breezepelt's childhood abuse! It's a part of canon I think is good and I would like to stay relatively faithful to it.
His arc also continues into BB!AVoS. Continued distrust of him after fighting for the Dark Forest, misplacing his anger onto Harespring when he manages to take deputyship, and Dishonor Titles from Onestar end up causing him and his friends to feel so rejected that they join The Kin.
Its message, that they are "The Kin that the Clans abandoned" appeals to over a dozen cats from other Clans who are shunned for various reasons. HalfClan cats, codebreakers, and Dark Forest trainees alike all come together, because BB!The Kin is mostly comprised of Clan cats, particularly ones from SkyClan, NOT rogues.
There's about 6 or so non-Clanborn cats in The Kin; Rain, Raven, Flame, Dragonfly, Roach, Nettle. If I end up keeping Silt, Thistle, or any of the 7-10 unnamed cats, they'll get shuffled to be Clanborn.
(Max, Loki, and Zelda are cut. Many of Zelda's roles are being absorbed by Dragonfly, who is remaining with Violetshine after The Kin disbands)
This is kinda a funny comment but @ Brambleclaw telling Hollypaw how smart she is, i remember reading an article about how corporate spies (YES THIS IS RELATED) got information. The article was mostly one person's retelling about how it was entirely though phone calls where they just ask for information, and whenever the person on the other side started questioning them for why they needed the information, they were told to switch to praising the person on the other side for sticking to the rules and 'authenticating/checking' everything. That they'd 'put in a good word for how dedicated they were', basically buttering them up and making them feel good about catching what they were doing specifically to nudge them away from actually catching on.
I find it WILDLY interesting how the Erins just ACCIDENTALLY put actual manipulation tactics in their books when trying to make a male figure seem like a good person, almost like they're writing from experience in some kind of elaborate essay to themselves about how that behavior is okay and justifiable. They write in another character, Crowfeather, who abuses in a different, more noticable way just to compare and go "At least it's not this bad!" (the scene where Crowfeather chews out Breezepaw and one of them goes 'id rather Brambleclaw any day of the week!'), and then have Ashfur butter up Brambleclaw so that him excusing Ashfur's abuse can be claimed as Ashfur manipulating him.
ANYWAYS a question so you can properly add to the ask: How DOES the Ashfur buttering up Brambleclaw thing go down? Does Ashfur even NEED to butter him up? I think it'd be a little interesting if Hollypaw telling Brambleclaw was the first time he's actually heard of it happening, but he either confronts Ashfur and THEN gets buttered up, or he heards, thinks about it, and goes "nah its good actually I'd do the same".
There's actually a name for the tactic Ashfur uses that you saw in that spy article. It's called Ingratiation.
It's the act of making someone have a higher opinion of you, therefore putting more trust in you, by simply getting them to like you. Flattery, posing yourself as an in-group, and even using humor can all be part of ingratiation.
Now-- Ingratiation isn't ALWAYS nefarious. It's normal to try and make a good impression, or want to be liked by a possible friend or coworker. We try to influence other people all the time, we're social animals. It's just good to know that it CAN be used maliciously.
So I'm not too surprised to see a manipulation tactic in the book. I was using "buttering up" exactly because most people know WHAT it is, and that it IS a way to get people to do stuff, but don't connect that to its academic name. Like you said though what's so BIZARRE about it is how they really DO sometimes seem to be writing this looooong essay to themselves about how that was all Fine, Actually.
ESPECIALLY the way Bramble and Crow were contrasted in the Dog Scolding Scene. I left most of Bramble out because I was trying to focus on proving that Breeze was abused, but Nonny... the way the Three get chewed the fuck out by Bramble, as he insults them, assures Crow he won't be stopping for their exhausted sakes, and doesn't indicate that his anger is coming from concern...
It massively reminded me of when one neglected kid sees another kid get abused too. "Oh, well, what I'm going through isn't so bad, because it's not like THAT."
THEYRE SO CLOSE. ALL THE TIME. Like an INCH away from the point and it's AGONIZING.
Anyway... in BB, Bramble's enabling of Lionpaw's abuse is a WATERSHED moment for a bunch of the character arcs, especially Hollypaw.
I plan to keep it very similar to canon actually, I think it's stainless steel the way it is.
Ashfur KNOWS what he is doing.
He wasn't rolling for a save. It was calculated. Brambleclaw is someone who could have stopped his abuse, so he sought him out.
Can you see how inescapable that makes it, for Holly and Lion?
Holly finally worked up the courage to say something and stand up for her brother, only for her father to coo like she's a kitten who doesn't understand the world.
Even Lionpaw's father believes it's good and right to BLEED for your Clan. That this is normal... that this is even what love can look like.
BB!Lionblaze is the adopted father of his bio-nespring, Ivypool and Dovewing. What he internalizes here as a child is going to hurt BOTH of his daughters down the road, as he shoves them into the Dark Forest and a Prophecy, respectively.
Even after Brambleclaw disowns him and Lionblaze rejects him in response, adamantly saying he has ONLY a mother, he won't reject this lesson until it's TOO LATE.
And Hollypaw is so damaged by this scene that it's going to be the first domino towards her murderous break in Cruel Season.
"I need you to keep your brothers in line, Hollypaw" is soup stock, and then add obsession with the Code, constant betrayal from the relationships she forges in other Clans, her near-murder at the claws of Ashfur when he finds out the Power of Three + Fire and Tiger prophecies, and the murder of her mentor and grandfather.
And then she finds out her HalfClan brother, a Cleric, angel-punching blasphemous wretch he is, has gotten Poppyfrost pregnant. Just like Leafpool before him.
What else IS "keeping them in line" supposed to be, when he's gone this far? He's had enough chances. She will do what she's meant for. Jayfeather must DIE.
Bramblestar himself is notorious in BB for being incredibly controversial as a leader, taking power in Cruel Season just after Firestar is killed by the Dark Forest assassins.
This is part of his personality. He is easily blinded by his own feelings, and it makes him a good target for manipulation.
His first deputy, Thornclaw, exploits many of the same weaknesses Ashfur did. All part of the Dark Forest's plan.
And even Ashfur. Up in StarClan, he continues to plot, eventually leading to the events of TBC and his time as the Impostor.
