#byler proofs

[fatfatgaybitch]

My personal favorite Byler Proofs that keep me believing that might help others with doubt as well:

EDIT: post V1 S5😝

- The difference of Mike calling El a superhero versus calling Will a sorcerer. Will won—El didn’t.

- Elmike rooftop scene discussing the happily ever after of the whole party, rather than secluding themselves like all the other couples have done when they make plans.

- Mike called El a superhero because of her powers. Will became a superhero because Mike said he had the potential to become one.

- “I knew right then and there that she was the one” —Robin regarding Tammy—“I knew right then and there that I loved you”—Mike to El.

- Mike returning to referring to El as Eleven…whilst Hop called her Jane.

- Will thought of meeting Mike first to restore his self-love and find powers because Mike made him feel loved. Like he wasn’t a mistake one might say…

- Mike in danger is the last thing Will sees before activating his powers—and the first thing he sees when he does activate them.

- Before we see Will being sexy and aura farming—the camera pans to Mike looking at the demogorgan—then back at the demogorgan as if we are seeing through Mike’s eyes, and then the camera pans towards Will. Showing how Mike sees Will.

- The look of absolute pride and love that Mike gives Will after Will snapped all of the demogorgan bones—versus Joyce being terrified of and for her son.

- Mike don’t gaf that El is in the Upside Down😭🙏and not that it is the same situation but it’s a vast comparison from his need to find and save Will in season 1–not to mention she went into the UD to find his sister.

- Lucas talks more about El and more highly of her than Mike does.

- The same flowers Mike gifts to El in 4x02 are the dead flowers that El holds up in the last moments of 4x09 and now at the beginning of 5x01 when Vickie is throwing away more dead yellow and purple flowers.

- “We’re hoping this emotional arc for Will is what ties this whole series together” -The Duffers

- “The show is to empower outcasts” -Shawn Levy, The Duffers, Millie Bobby Brown, Noah Schnapp, Gaten Ma- I could go on.

- “You could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a special friendship” -Noah Schnapp on Mike and Will’s friendship at a Comic Con

- “Mike goes on a journey this season…” -Cara Buono following Schnapp’s words from the bullet point above.

- Midleven kiss at the end of S3.

- “They [Mike and El] have such different paths in life” -Finn Wolfhard on Mike and El’s relationship

- “Does he still see her as just the superhero?” -Millie Bobby Brown (2022 or 2023) saying her favorite Midleven scene was their fight over “From, Mike” with Sarah D. (Forgot her last name, she’s the hair stylist for the show)

- Mike’s behavior in the airport scene.

- Mike and Will’s Rink o’ Mania fight, specifically Mike saying Will not having a good time or smiling was what sabotaged the day, and not El being severely bullied and humiliated.

- Will’s feelings were what made Mike confident, and they are the reason for Leader Mike’s return in season 5–only Will disguised those feelings as El’s.

- Mike being paralleled to Brenner and Hopper. Especially Brenner.

^would love to put every single parallel on this list but that’ll take too long LMAO

- No midleven scene post the ‘love’ monologue in season 4, and instead we get confirmation that El didn’t talk much to Mike for two days after it on their way to Hawkins.

- Mike’s arc has been failing to please El for two seasons straight whereas she is able to forget Mike for the majority of her seasons.

- Familial Parallels. Obviously. And ew.

- Will was the one to push Mike to say he loves El, and Mike still hesitated, as well as lied about experiencing love at first sight.

- ‘The Heart’ being constantly associated with Mike’s character, tying him directly to Will’s love for him. Every time they say it, it is tied to the ship.

- Mike and El, although unintentional, continue to hurt each other and make one another feel inferior and less than.

- “Maybe I was worrying too much about El” To Will, after El was severely bullied and then taken away to a top secret location to get her powers back. Like dude.

- Final shot of season 4, and jancy, jopper and byler being coupled together.

- “We ask Finn to carry a lot of weight, we ask Noah to carry a lot of critical emotional content” -Shawn Levy at the ST5 LA Premiere.

(Will add more later when I think of them)

[runningupthatlane]

I had Byler confidence after Vol. 2, and here’s why:

My immediate thought after watching (other than wtf did I just watch) was: there’s a clear set up here.

And that set up is Mike’s POV.

For a brief analysis on the emphasis on Mike during the coming out scene, please visit this earlier post I made in Byler Nation (linked here) and come back!

Now that you’re back and with me, let’s get into it.

The camera focuses on Mike at very intentional points in the coming out scene. “I don’t like girls” on Mike, “not like you guys” on Dustin and Lucas.

We watch Mike gulp. We watch him REALIZE something. Yes, it might be what the duffers said in the post-interview, that Mike is realizing Will’s feelings for him.

That doesn’t mean all hope is lost. There is no explicit rejection. The duffers don’t clarify that part. In the interviews, the brothers and Noah confirm that Will THINKS it’s unrequited.

Because right now, Will absolutely does think that. He’s doubting everything. He’s afraid. Vecna showed him that no one would accept him, that Mike would never love him, but WE, as the AUDIENCE, don’t see any of it.

It’s not shown to us because it’s in Will’s head. It’s the doubt Vecna planted in him. The fact that we are told rather than shown is intentional.

This means it’s Will’s POV, not the audience’s.

We do not have the full story. Not yet, but it’s coming.

Steve & Dustin? Resolved. Robin & Vickie? On the same page. Joyce & Hopper? Strong. Lucas & Max? Incredible. Nancy & Jonathan? Separated.

All the loose ends are tied except for Byler and Mileven, the only two arcs left unfinished. And while it sucks that it’s happening late, that it wasn’t treated with the care anyone deserved, there will be concrete answers.

From a screenwriting perspective, it’s unfinished.

If Will’s arc was ending there, they would have saved his coming out for the FINALE. They didn’t.

Remember, he’s completed 2 out of 3 of Robin’s ‘steps’. He’s so scared, and so influenced by what Vecna showed him, that he CONVINCED himself that Mike is his Tammy.

Mike has done nothing to show us, or Will, that. Will never saw him being close with El this season. Nothing happened to drive that point home.

Manipulation and false reality from Vecna is the only reason Will is riddled with doubt. Before that, he still asked Robin when she felt confident enough to go for Vickie.

And her answer? After telling someone. As I said before, Will has now done that (even tho it could’ve been handled better).

As someone who had a feeling they would push byler to the finale, I have confidence more than doubt.

It’s a bit of an echo chamber right now with everyone’s disappointment and hopelessness (reasonably so!!) but I had confidence before I opened the internet and I’m sticking to my gut feeling and analysis.

And if it doesn’t happen, it IS bad writing — sincerely, a writer, screenwriter, and an ally.

Your disappointment and anger and disbelief is justified. It’s valid. I’m totally with you. But I’d also like to offer some hope to those who are holding on like me.

I’ve even seen Milevens saying they think Byler is endgame based on Mike’s expressions in that scene.

So, I believe this doesn’t mean it’s over. It means we have the opening to MOVE. Specifically, the Mike opening we’ve been waiting for.

Mike was delayed in joining the hug. He was the ONLY ONE to react when Will said he didn’t want to be scared anymore. Mike, who at the beginning of the season, said he didn’t want REGRETS.

The same Mike we all thought looked guilty in that truck teaser with El. He still looked guilty to me. You know why? Because it was right after finding out about Will.

To me, that’s the face of someone whose world turned on its head and he’s re-evaluating everything he thought he knew about their relationship (or everything he didn’t allow himself to consider until now)

Only YOU have the power to choose how much doubt or how much hope you let in.

Do what you need to soothe, to lessen your anxiety, to take care of yourself, and so on. I personally am going to take a break from socials because I want to let my initial hope strengthen rather than diminish.

And finally, remember Korrasami. The writers’s favorite. Remember Catradora, another ship they’ve mentioned that went canon in the finale.

Will and Mike individually (and as Byler) deserved better writing, but they’re not done yet.

[andyundercover7]

“Byler isn’t real, they’re not going to be a couple”

yeah okay buddy, whatever you say- do you need a chair? Maybe a little rest? Clear your brain and eyes a little.

I really just hope Will likes Mike back tbh

[lovebywheeler]

why are there so many non-queer people on tiktok trying to silence queer people and push the narrative that their interpretation of robins speech is right and that will should move on from mike because that’s what robin is “basically telling him to do”? media literacy is so dead. if will or mike were a girl, they would be pushing for byler to happen and wanting mileven to be bones, just like they are pushing for stancy to happen again

[yourlocalbadgerscales]

"He's quiet today." vs "He's always quiet."

"You're a sorcerer! A real life, honest to god Sorcerer!" vs "You're not a sniper."

"It was a seven. The roll, it was a seven. The demogorgon, it got me." vs "Did Mike see it? [No.] Then it doesn't count."

"You good?" vs "Will, are you okay?!"

"[Asking you to be my friend] was the best thing I've ever done."

"Please don't tell the others. They wouldn't understand."

"Max, Lucas and Dustin... they're great. They're great, it's just... it's Hawkins, it's not the same without you."

"Mom, Lucas, Dustin, everyone [except for Mike]! They all treat me like I'm gonna break."

"You make me feel like I'm not a mistake at all, like I'm better for being different."

Mike sitting in silence and staring blankly ahead of himself while Lucas and Dustin bicker after having received the news that Will is missing... Mike's devastating reaction specifically being focused on a second time when Will's supposed dead body is found... Mike being the only one other than Will's mother to believe that he's alive even after his supposed dead body was found...

Remember this: homophobes will always keep trying to convince us that Will and Mike are "platonic with a capital P" and that we're gross for suggesting otherwise. They'll keep insisting that we "queerbaited ourselves" in an attempt to make us feel stupid and insane. It is very important that we do not give them the satisfaction of feeling like they've won no matter what may happen. They don't deserve our time and energy, quite frankly.

(+ lil bonus:

"Tell me things!"

vs

"I didn't say it."

"You didn't have to."

Teehee :3)

[chirpsythismorning]

I’m sorry but Mike is never beating the gay subtext allegations 😂

[zenon-karr]

So I’m gonna make this post. Someone posted about the script of The Battle of Starcourt. The ones with the red highlights (first ones are the original one that was uploaded) I definitely remember it. As I saw it a couple years ago when they got them. However now the second one is a screencap I just took and what the linked scripts say now. They literally have removed what Mike thinks! Very suspicious if you ask me!!

Here in the original script Mike’s questioning why he didn’t say it back to El and asking what’s wrong with him. I remember reading this when they got them. I remember him being mad at himself why he didn’t say I love you back. I noticed the change when I went to remember what was said and I noticed it was gone from the one they have now. The new version makes it look like maybe Finn acted the scene the way he did when the first one which is the one I remember and am familiar with shows it’s the direction. The script scene just makes it look cute awkward no struggle with emotions. Vs the original one has inner struggle and conflict. This one even says SHE leans in vs the other one takes it away. And removes what the hell just happened?

It’s so unfortunate for us that saw this before coz we saw their direction and what it was on there but now when it’s linked it’s gone because now there’s reasonable doubt that it’s not there! Also lowkey it contradicts what Mike says that he doesn’t say I love you to El as a conscious decision because he’s afraid she doesn’t need him anymore and it would hurt more. Now here it shows he is questioning why can’t I say it and he’s frustrated at himself and wondering what’s happening!?? It contradicts his speech coz he says a reason given is a conscious decision rather than not knowing why when clearly in S3E8 he can’t say it again and doesn’t know why. I remember they said they were contemplating ending in s4 so I was thinking they may have initially left it in so that initially planning s4 as the end they would not have him false confess to have an Empire Strikes Back season. They’d beat Vecna like they would in s5 and the answer to why he can’t say I love you would be you know coz he fell for Will and didn’t want to say it when he didn’t mean it. But maybe they decided to draw out the plot so s4 reveals Will’s feelings and s5 reveals Mike’s. I don’t know I just have so many thoughts on this. As a person who saw this when it came out to seeing what the script is now it sucks the link won’t link to the version I saw before.

[runningupthatlane]

We Need to See Mike's Agency

All the assumptions and conclusions being made are based on what we're seeing from Will and what the show is telling us, along with the interviews (which suck but are vague).

We have Will's feelings. We pretty much have El's (mostly outside of their relationship).

These two volumes have not considered Mike's feelings. Mike's agency as an individual and not a love interest has not yet been considered. We don't even know what he's thinking, let alone what he's feeling.

We don't know anything at all, which is why we can't consider it concretely like with Will.

Will, who is filled with doubt from Vecna and has no way of knowing whether Mike really is his Tammy. He made that decision for him based on what he thinks is true and his view of his self worth.

He went from hopeful to doubting because of Vecna's visions that we didn't see. By deciding that Mike is Tammy, he is also trying to protect himself from what he assumes will be inevitable rejection because of these doubts.

As I've said before in other posts, Mike himself has given no indication thus far that he doesn't reciprocate. While he didn't give much in Vol 2 that he does, there was nothing concrete that showed he didn't. They had ample opportunity to do that during his scenes with El and chose not to.

They need to let Mike, and show Mike, feeling. He's relatively stagnant. We have no idea what's going on in his head but we can see that something's going on.

Remember, Mike is the master of micro-expressions with Will and macro-expressions with El.

We see that he's having an inner turmoil when he tells the others he'll stay with Will, we see it when he's pacing, we see it in the coming out scene, and I think we see it hugely in Murray's van when he leans back from El in that scene many dubbed the 'guilty' teaser.

I truly believe that there is no way one of the most pivotal characters in this decade-long show is going out so terribly one dimensional like this, especially after the Duffers interview mentioned that everyone has to be their strongest self going into the finale.

We can infer based on their explanation that everyone needs to reconcile their inner turmoils, and they all supposedly have-- except for Mike, who's not there yet. He's the only one who hasn't exhibited the same shift. I think this will play a role. It's all a misdirect.

Obviously, Bylers understand Mike's psyche, or the potential of his psyche, on a deeper level. However, on the surface or with the GA, Mike is usually considered around what El wants or what Will wants.

We have more of Will's agency (though not all the way either given the circumstances of his coming out, etc), we have more of El's with her individual arc, we're missing one more here.

The Duffers have not yet allowed us to think of Mike based on what he wants. So far he's passive, he's being acted on rather than act-ing. While it sucks that it's taken so long, I think it might be because what Mike wants could be the big reveal.

His face in that coming out scene? In my opinion, I saw realization all over it. Even my father clocked it.

That expression suggested to me that we're about to find out what he wants.

And I think Mike finally knows what, and who, that is. Dare I say perhaps part of him has known for a long time.

If done right, this could very well be the final step.

The approach was...well we all know what it was, the interviews were troubling, but the signals are still there.

They would not have mentioned an avalanche-- which they defined via Robin as a slow burn built from accrued moments (or snowballs)-- to not have that avalanche happen. (An epilogue boyfriend is not an avalanche because we won't have seen any of the snowballs).

The avalanche is coming. Dare I say, it's already here.

(Note: to qualify my reading of these micro-expressions, I scored the highest in a minor psychology experiment where I was required to identify the emotion of an individual based solely on a cropped image of their gaze. If they're not canon then someone has some serious explaining to do with those looks)