Katie here, sad to say this will be the last interview of the series. I wanted to end things full-circle, and so I’m excited to introduce you to Passim’s very own, Abby Altman!
Abby is the Club Manager here at Passim, which means that most nights you can find her in the soundbooth or box office at Passim shows. She went to school for English Literature and German Language, grew up playing classical violin, and didn’t know much about the folk world until she found herself in Boston approximately five years ago. Soon after moving here, she sought out Passim one night for a show and has lived in the Club ever since. Though I’m kidding about that last part, you must understand the love Abby has for this special place. As soon as that first show ended, she immediately asked the Club if there was something, anything she could help with. And so, she started working at the box office here. Within a year, Matt Smith (managing director) had trained Abby on sound, as well as anything else she could learn to do at the Club. She has now been working at Passim for over 5 years, holds the title of Club Manager, and to set her love in stone, got a Passim tattoo on her right forearm.
While Abby has been a lover of music all her life, she never really enjoyed going to live shows. There was something about the talking and the distractions that deterred her from making that something she did regularly. So, I asked her, ‘Why Passim?’
“In college, I used to go to divey bars with blaring music everyone talked over anyways, or giant stadium shows where people spill beer on your shoes and are there more for the party than the music. I didn’t know there was a small version of music until I saw Passim. This is a listening room, where people stop talking for an hour and just sit and really listen. I had to be a part of that. I had to help make it happen.”
And happen it did. As Club Manager, Abby gets to wear a lot of different hats. She’s the manager for the night, soundchecks the bands and sets the stage up, and does payout at the end of the night. In larger clubs, there’d be one person on each job, but it’s that hands-on, all immersive part of the job that is Abby’s favorite part; she loves knowing that she’s a facilitator.
The next part of the interview discusses her role as a woman in a male-dominated profession.
[full interview under the cut]
Club Passim: Talk a little bit about your experiences as a female in a male-dominated profession/field.
Abby Altman: When I first started working here and learning sound, I didn’t realize the gender imbalance. I had no idea. I didn’t go to school for sound and notice all my classmates were guys, I didn’t go to other venues much and see “oh it’s always a sound GUY”. I didn’t have any background, and so Passim was my bubble. Whatever was normal for Passim was normal for me, and at Passim we have at least an equal number of men and women working sound and throughout the organization. It wasn't until I started working shows and talking with artists that came through that I realized, “Oh, I’m weird.” No one told me I couldn’t do it, so I didn’t even think about it. Once I started working downstairs regularly is when I noticed folks commenting, and not always negative things. I’ve gotten the whole range of comments from artists, from walking through the door and them saying to me, “Where’s the sound guy?” to after a show having artists come up to me and say, “this is fantastic; you’re my first sound woman”.
There will be nights where almost our entire staff are women, from the servers to the box office to me, it’s such a cool thing when it happens. Right now we have 4 women and 3 men on staff who run sound, but now when I do go out to other venues, I make a point to look at who’s working. Usually, I’m disappointed to see barely any women on staff. The same thing goes for festivals. We just had a couple of festivals in the area held with big stages and lots of crew, and it's always men. Every year. All men.
I’ve heard some hypotheses why more women don’t get hired for sound positions, and some of it is that not as many women go to school for sound engineering to begin with, and the workforce reflects that. But then you ask, ‘well why aren’t more women going into that’? And that’s a question I still don’t have an answer to.
CP: Do you notice a difference in how you’re treated by other artists, venues, audiences, and industry professionals before vs. after you stage manage?
AA: Sometimes. There are some people that definitely just walk in and judge you, but once I show them I know what I’m doing, they relax. Artists are so focused on making sure that they’re going to give the best show they possibly can, and understandably so. If for some reason they perceive the sound person isn’t going to be the best thing for their show, they’re going to be nervous and will want to run the whole thing. Artists will come back to the soundboard and change things for me, and that’s one of those things where sometimes that’s okay, and sometimes it is not. It can be with an air of ego where they think they can do my job better than me, or it can be actually helpful, especially if I’ve never heard the artists before or they’ve never played on our stage. It can really save time in the soundcheck and ensure the artist gives their best show.
CP: What do you do in a situation when you feel disrespected by the artists/co-workers you’re surrounded by?
AA: Every situation is different. Usually, I’d step aside and let them do what they need to do, because at the end of the day, it is the artist's show. If I’m fighting with them during soundcheck they’re not going to be in a good headspace for the show, which will make them give a worse performance. I have no problem taking a backseat when I need to.
Sometimes all it takes though is a little indication to show them that I do know what I’m doing. It’s silly that I feel like I have to prove it though, you know? I have this job. Passim has trusted me to run this show, so I shouldn’t have to prove to you that I’m qualified. But sometimes, if an artist asks you to do something and you reply in a way so they know you understand, it will put them at ease because to them it shows that you know what you’re talking about.
That’s something I’m not always sure if it’s a gender thing or an age thing, you know. I’m 28, and I look younger than I am, so I don’t always know if people’s reservations come from a woman being at the soundboard, because of my age, or because they just don’t know me.
CP: In your opinion, how can men be more aware or informed about their women co-workers and peers in the music industry?
AA: Hire women. Whatever role you happen to be in, hire women to do things. If you’re an artist and you’re hiring a band, consider women for your band. If you’re looking for a studio engineer to record with, or a graphic designer for your new ep, look for women; tour managing, videography, producing, everything counts.
I get very, very tired of seeing bands of 6, 7, 8 people made up entirely of men. It feels like something is wrong when you can’t find a single woman you want in your group.
Some of the arguments come back to ‘there aren’t as many women to hire’. And I’m not saying if 2% of studio engineers are women that you should hire a woman just to tick that box, but you should at least consider it.
CP: What message do you want to display as a woman “behind the scenes”?
AA: It is normal. Don’t try to make a big deal about it, being a woman in sound shouldn’t be a phenomenon, so don’t treat it like one. Just being there and making sure that I’m capable and do my job well is important.
Actually, for the first time earlier this year I had a job offer to stage manage outside of Passim for a weekend festival. It was in a giant auditorium and I’ve never worked with anything that scale, but the artist who reached out to me was a musician who had worked with me before at Passim, and so when he was producing a show of his own he thought of me. That was really mind-blowing. It means that people do pay attention.
It’s always such a balance. You want to be supportive and say, “I’m a woman and I’m awesome and look at all these other awesome women”, and you want to ensure people really see how badass it is when women run things. On the other hand, you feel like you shouldn’t have to do that, that it shouldn’t be something that gets pointed out. Where’s the balance between shouting from the rooftops about amazing women artists but also trying to normalize their presence as simply artists? That’s something I struggle with for sure.
CP: What words of wisdom/encouragement do you have for aspiring women in this field?
AA: Ask women for help. If you’re a woman and want to start doing something you wish you knew more about, it’s good to approach other women and ask them “How did you do this? How did you get here?” If I were in the sound booth and a woman came up to me after a show and asked me how a PA works, I would be extremely happy to talk about it. Lean on women, but remember that there are good men out there too.
~
Thank you, Abby, for such a unique perspective on this subject! Your love for your workplace and what you do is apparent to all who cross paths with you. It doesn’t matter where you come from or how much experience you have, all it takes is hard work, determination, and a passion for what you do. The rest will fall in place.
Thank you all for reading, and stay tuned for one last post from me in the ‘Women in Folk’ blog.
Ort: Rosenheim, Bayern
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