I haven't seen anyone else talk about it, so I wanted to share that Logan's rant monologue insulting Wade in the Honda Odyssey, before Wade decides to beat him up and they ~fight~ all night... that so clearly to me, was Logan projecting. It started as a tempered rant to cope with how annoyed and pent up he was, with the heat of everything and with Wade's muchness that makes him, him, but the longer he went on, the more he started ranting and exposing himself in the process.
"THE XMEN REJECTED YOU, AND THEY'LL TAKE FUCKING ANYONE!!!" That was my first hit, that he was referring to himself. He sees himself so lowly, so failed, that's canonical to the film. And canonically, he didn't even quite originally feel worthy or want to be with the XMEN. Didn't feel like there was a place for him there, a place for him anywhere. One of his biggest healings was Professor X not giving up on helping him believe that he deserved to be there, was wanted, was worthy, was a good guy. That's canon to his character. So we know he was speaking about himself. He was chewing Wade out, but he was also talking and focusing moreso on what upset him about himself. (He sees himself as just any jo shmo, when he IS literally THE X MAN ㅠㅠ)
He was seeing himself in Wade, how he "can't even save a relationship with a gd stripper", (he sees himself as not able to save anything either, and he's angry for that more than anything else he's angry or annoyed at) projecting SO HARD as he pieced together saying it out loud, that Wade was exactly like him. Logan hated himself for not saving anything. For being a "loser", a "failure", for all of the same reasons he was lashing out at Wade for. He was so angry and annoyed by Wade reminding him of himself, because he related to him. Wade was his reflection, in his eyes, calling him out so loudly with his own behaviors. And he hated himself. He deeply was suffering with that hatred for himself, and as a result, he lashed out on Wade when really he was chewing out himself, inside, admitting it.
"God's CRUELEST JOKE, IS THAT YOU *WONT* DIE ALONE. BECAUSE YOU! CANT! DIE! SO THE REST OF US HAVE TO SUFFER YOU THE REST OF OUR EXISTENCE!" (something along that.)
He didn't know for sure that Wade can't die. He picked up on that Wade can't be killed. Logan is the one who can't die. They are two flipped sides of the same immortal power coin. When he finished his screaming at him, and everyone was silent at how cruel and shocking the confrontation and his words were, I was sinking with a very empathetically whispered "oh, Logan..." Because I felt his misery. I immediately picked up on him really talking about himself, and I think that was genius and layered. I was upset for how awful that was to say to Wade, heartbroken for Wade taking that to heart, and I was heartbroken that Logan was saying that because he believes that about himself. Because they are, oddly, a lot alike. Very compatible.
This scene here:
I read that Hugh said that Ryan wrote that. He's brilliant with these films. It was so genius. I really needed to share this and bring this thought, meta, analysis to light. For all of us to have.
Is Logan mad at God's "cruel joke" of his immortality, yet ability to feel so much pain through it still? Yes. He punched the roof in rage, because it's not fair. Venting his own pain. He sees his powers, his own and Wade's too, empathetically, as their curse. The curse of being the one who lives, and the guilt with that. The one who can't die. The one who lives, who is forced to live, while everyone who "deserves to live" dies. And WILL die, around them.
"And You can't die. That's on all of US!" Logan says, clearly referring to himself living forever... And "us" being the people HE loved. He saw himself as a burden for existing with them, for them. He deflected that onto Wade, as if the people in Wade's life must feel that way too, but didn't really mean that. He meant it about himself. Logan believes he was a burden on the people he loves, the people he lost. That's probably why he left too, and didn't come back when they called out for him to. He distanced himself to protect them, and protect himself from that fear of rejection that he feels is so imminent, and them not having him, is the one element that led to none of them surviving without him. He was always the key. He was always wanted, and he was always important and needed. He just couldn't ever believe that.
Man, that's why it became so personal for Logan too, when he was shown Wade's photograph of his family. Because HE had a family, and he would do anything now to save them. Just like Wade. He held that photograph all night, he went and got it when it fell out of the car, he kept looking at it. It became personal for him, when he identified with it. That Honda scene really was their turning point of everything. That's when Logan cared with everything. He got it. Wade is the him he couldn't be. But now he can.
I dropped some heat with this one.
Extra little personal context/thought notes: Maybe I just spotted it because I have a natural knack for psychology, I'm hyperobservant, highly empathetic and deeply feeling, and I'm also years experienced of my parents and whole family treating me the same exact toxic lashout way almost every other day. That's a workweek for me to see through toxic lashout anger BS. These are not my gifs!!! They were created by another amazing account. I will refind their @ and tag them!! >>> It's @landoslastnerve ! Thank you friend! 🤍
Also wanted to include someone's tags from those gifs:
Okay bear with me folks, I have some ~thoughts~ about the Vanessa/Wade relationship (or frankly lack thereof) in Deadpool & Wolverine. I should start by saying that I am analyzing this with the (likely erroneous) assumption that everything on screen is 100% intentional and mindfully written to deepen the characters and inform their arcs. For the record, I don't necessarily believe that's true - there is certainly room for mistakes, lazy writing, confusing plot elements, or in this case, sidelining a potentially strong and important character for nebulous reasons (I'm guessing scheduling conflicts + run time concerns + actor's strike complications but idk for sure). (Also thanks to @gossippool and @kendyroy for encouraging me to post my thoughts instead of just rambling in the tags in the first place, y'all are the realest)
Long rambly post below the cut fyi
Now, granted, it has been a while since I watched the original Deadpool so I am not as well-versed in their early relationship as I am in the handful of scenes Morena Baccarin has in dp3, but I do think it is pretty canon that Wade generally struggles to express his deeper worries and feelings (without filtering it heavily through crude humor, sex, and pop culture references of course), especially after the events of dp1 and the physical and mental damage he sustains, and Vanessa is frankly no exception despite how much he cares for her. The entire first movie hinges on the fact that he doesn't really believe she could love him in his post-Francis mangled state, which is pretty contrived imo given that the film has established already how bonded they are, and she doesn't strike me as being written to be so shallow as to reject him based on a physical deformity. I mean iirc she wanted to stick around through chemo despite him being literally riddled with inoperable cancer, so she clearly is in it for the long haul (at least in dp1), messiness and all.
Now, in dp2, obviously she is shot and killed early in the film, and Wade spends much of the rest of the film wallowing in his very profound grief, trauma, and guilt over losing her due directly to his violent lifestyle. He goes to prison, he basically gives up on life and seems very resigned to dying once he has the power suppressant collar on, even excited to do so so he can be reunited with her. She is mostly sidelined as a Fuzzy Dead Wife trope basically, but the important thing here is that he spends weeks if not months in the throes of despair over losing the love of his life just as they were trying to start a family, and trying to reach across the boundaries of death to be with her.
Now, my first couple times watching dp3 I was frustrated by the trite narrative presented in the interview scene towards the beginning - specifically Wade's whole "my girl is getting tired of my shtick and I need to show her I matter". It felt contrived and disingenuous, and I just brushed it off as iffy writing, a means to an end, but the more I reflect upon it the more I think it is based in an emotional reality that is just handled with a very light touch by the film in favor of fanservice and Poolverine content (NOT that I'm complaining in the slightest - I think this movie is a masterpiece in many ways, albeit a flawed one but that's beside the point here), which for the record I am not against because I think it lends it an air of realism. This is Wade's story after all, Vanessa is a part of it but it is ultimately about him and his journey.
Basically, I think the combination of what happened to him in dp1 (the brain damage, the trauma, the awareness of the fourth wall, etc) followed by the events of dp2 (Vanessa's death, his grief and the associated guilt and trauma of being the direct cause of her death) led to an unbridgeable emotional gap between the two of them that ultimately leads to their breakup.
It's important to note that I don't think Vanessa has any recollection of her own death, given that Wade goes back and saves her before she can take the bullet, and so of course she can never fully fathom what Wade went through grieving her and their life together and their potential family, for however long he spent between her death and bringing her back with Cable's device. She can try (and she clearly does in the one scene I'll talk about next) but I fear she accepts, maybe even in that scene, that she can never succeed. He is beyond her reach by this point, and vice versa, his experiences having fundamentally changed him.
The one scene we really see from their relationship between dp2 and dp3 is the one where Cassandra mind-gropes Wade in the Void and we see Vanessa struggling to reach Wade across this aforementioned gap - she wants him to open up, she wants him to share what he's going through, she wants him to be the person she initially fell in love with (not even selfishly - to her nothing has changed really, because to her no time has passed). But not only does he not understand what she's really asking for but he responds in such a way that makes me think he has unprocessed issues that are only tangentially related to what she's saying - ie the stuff about mattering, about asking her if she even wants to be with him, etc. And he's not the Wade Wilson she met back in dp1 anymore. He watched her die and grieved her and brought her back, believing it would make everything go back to normal and they could resume their life together as if nothing had changed, but he has been fundamentally changed in a way that she can't grasp, even if he WAS good at externally processing his trauma openly without the artifice of wry jokes. She didn't "come back wrong" - instead, she came back exactly the same as before, but HE'S different now. Not wrong, per se. But changed.
It's an interesting scene because it's obviously a memory, and a crucial one at that, but you can see how Wade is misunderstanding what she's saying, viewing it through the prism of his own lack of self-worth and his own hopelessness - he takes away that she thinks he doesn't matter (even though like he says she didn't actually say that, but I don't think Cassandra invented that wholecloth - I think she pulled it out of his psyche because that's what he believes deep down, hence why his fixation on mattering even though she never said those words exactly), he takes away that she doesn't want to be with him, that she thinks he's nothing. Which would be frustrating as an audience member to witness as a pretty simple misunderstanding which could potentially be solved with one conversation, but it feels believable to me that these two people who have shared a great love would be fundamentally separated by unimaginable, cosmic trauma, and the on conversation they would need to have to rectify the misunderstanding is one that is impossible for Wade to verbalize and equally impossible for Vanessa to conceive of. It was one thing when they had shared trauma like violence and SA in dp1, but what Wade has gone through in dp1 and dp2, humor aside, is unfathomably traumatic, brain-breakingly so even, and that's not even factoring in the possible mental illnesses he now struggles with (I've seen folks suggest schizophrenia, DID, depression, etc. but I won't get into armchair diagnosing a fictional character here - suffice it to say he is canonically unwell as a result of what has happened to him, and yes it manifests as quirky fourth wall breaks and cheeky one-liners, but within the universe of the movies he is undeniably profoundly mentally ill, and that includes this humorous alter ego he created to cope with his trauma).
I think off-screen Vanessa probably really tried to reach him, maybe for years (the six year gap implies to me that they didn't break up immediately, that they tried for a while to stay together), trying to get her Wade back, but that Wade is gone. He struggled to express that to her until eventually he started to feel rejected because he couldn't express his trauma or how much he has changed, because even he can't fully conceive of the gulf that has formed between them. The truth is, he WANTS to be that Wade again, for her and for himself, but that Wade died when she died. Or maybe he had already started dying when Francis got a hold of him in dp1.
Anyway, all this is to say, I think Morena Baccarin WAS criminally underutilized in dp2 and dp3, but I think there is a strong argument to be made for the believability of their breakup regardless. I think even relationships built on enormous love can crumble due to trauma, and what Wade suffers over these movies is mind-bogglingly enormous trauma. It's especially heartbreaking that he blames himself for their relationship ending, talks like she just got tired of him, thought he didn't matter, whatever. But it is a credit to him that he never seems to feel anger towards her about it. He doesn't seem to feel entitled to her, though he longs for her and what they had and what she represented (hope, love, a future, a family), but ultimately she becomes more of a symbol of what he lost when he gained his powers, because let's be super fr right now - even if they had succeeded in having a baby, not only would they have lived in fear of her or the kid getting killed, but ultimately Wade would likely outlive both of them even if they managed to die natural deaths. The moment he gained his powers he was already destined to lose her, which is heartbreaking because she was the only reason he opted for the treatment in the first place - so he could stay with her.
I think a big part of Deadpool & Wolverine is watching Wade continue to process his own motivations (vis-a-vis Vanessa but also his other friends) and how he does eventually let go of the idea of "mattering" in favor of just saving the people he cares about (*cough* and being saved right back *cough* by Wolvie, as the final line and shot implies). And in the process he finds someone new who cares about him, who thinks he matters, who tries to sacrifice himself for him and his friends after mere days of knowing him, who comes home with him at the end of the story, who breaks his own centuries-old patterns, who has also experienced unimaginable grief and trauma, who has struggled with wanting to die and being unable to, who not only matches his crazy but matches his FREAK and also not only won't die on him but CAN'T die on him - and more importantly cannot be randomly killed by a stray bullet.
Idk if any of this makes much sense but I do think if you read between the lines and consider the potency of trauma and grief, guilt and emotional damage at play here, Vanessa and Wade's off-screen breakup is actually pretty realistic, and really heart-breaking to boot.
You can tell she still cares about him in so many ways - she shows up for his birthday party, she shows up to his welcome home party at the end, she finds excuses for physical contact multiple times, her eyes get soft when she looks at him, but there is a distance there that Morena Baccarin does an incredible job of portraying. She cares about him deeply, she has mourned the loss of their potential life together, she has let him go and accepted that the Wade she fell in love with is gone, but she wants him in her life even though she's moving on because she realizes he's gone somewhere she can't follow (literally and figuratively). And she wants him to be happy which is why I fully believe she would immediately clock the Poolverine of it all and not-so-subtly encourage them to make it official.
Anyway. Poolverine forever. Nothing against Vanessa at all - I think she delivers a nuanced and beautiful performance, I think their relationship is sweet and heart-wrenching in large part due to her acting chops, especially given how little she is given to work with - but I think their relationship was sadly doomed from almost the very start, because Wade becomes this traumatized superhuman and Vanessa would always be at risk in his orbit, but also would always on the outside of his multiverse superhero experiences. I think it's weirdly beautiful, even if I am filling in a lot of gaps and giving the writers maybe undue credit.
Anyway... thoughts? Please DM me or write in the tags, I am feral about this movie and just want to talk about it with anyone haha. If you have further insight into these characters too I'd love to hear it - I am by no means an expert in these movies or characters!
I know it's been a while since it came out but when thing I really appreciated about Deadpool & Wolverine is that it and the rest of the Deadpool franchise really understood what fans want in a way that MCU movies have otherwise failed to grasp for a rather bafflingly long period of time which is this:
Happy Endings.
That might sound silly or childish (I can hear Deadpool's snort at the rude definition of happy endings in my ear even as I write this) but seriously, when was the last time a Marvel movie or show just gave us an unequivocal happy ending without any ambiguity?
For so long, Marvel has been feeling the need to provide some sort of hook, to set up that "not all is well" in order to keep people coming back for the next film.
But the thing is, I watched Deadpool 1, and Deadpool 2, and I came back for Deadpool & Wolverine even though technically all three ended with a happy ending. All three ended with the hero getting what they wanted, and the age-old reassertion of domesticity that is considered so cliche in so many happy endings (ie, everyone went home with their heterosexual partner and lived happily ever after in their white picket fence after the adventure was over).
What I actually loved, nay, even adored about Deadpool 2 was that it took the time to (spoilers) bring Vanessa back to life. It was in the credits, sure. But Wade/Vanessa is hands down my favorite het ship in the entire extended Marvel universe because they actually feel like they're in love, not just that they're falling in love or might have the chance to be in love someday (like Steve/Peggy) but that they actually have been in a long term relationship and they don't just love but actually like each other too, and they have what it takes to go the distance or, continue to be friends if they part ways as lovers. Like. MCU is so bad at het romance you guys, it's insane, but Wade/Vanessa actually feel like a real loving couple so even if I ship him with Logan too, I love how Wade/Vanessa was handled. I still get choked up about the whole Calendar Girl sequence and I was devastated in the second movie when she died.
And that's why it's so important to me that they brought her back. They didn't just leave it on "the girlfriend got fridged and while the hero still mourns her, he has grown stronger through the trials he suffered in the aftermath, etc etc." No, they understood she's a beloved character too, and it's a fantasy movie, and part of the fantasy is, yes, in the credits using the awesome magical powers at our disposal, we took an extra 10 seconds to make sure you know, as a fan, that everyone was ok in the end. Everyone got to live happily ever after, we brought back people who died, everything got to be ok.
The MCU hasn't done that in ages! WandaVision ends with Wanda losing everything, it's beautiful and devastating but it's also gut-wrenching and unsatisfying, especially after Multiverse of Madness. Winter Soldier ends with saving the world, sure, but the hero doesn't get everything back because we need to hook into the next movie, so Bucky needs to still be on the run and not reunited with Steve. Even Endgame, the end of the whole damn arc, ends with beloved characters (at least at the point of writing this) being dead and staying dead even though we have literal universe altering time magic at our disposal to, theoretically, bring them back and let everyone end on a happy note where they got everything they wanted.
Look, I get it, an all-around happy ending where everything is nicely tied up and everyone is alive and got their loved ones back can feel a bit childish. But throughout the MCU it has felt just so relentlessly withholding that no one gets this unequivocal, unambiguous happy ending in ages. It's like in their rush to hook you to the next movie, they completely forgot that part of the reward for the audience in watching these heroes go on these adventures is the hero getting what they want in the end, and not just getting strung along to the next adventure.
Deadpool understands that. Heck, it understands that you can give the all-around happy ending and still have problems that emerge down the line. Deadpool 2 ends happily but Wade still has problems that emerge in Deadpool & Wolverine, part of them are the outcomes of getting what he wanted that had unexpected consequences but don't diminish getting what he wanted after Deadpool 2. He wanted the white picket fence happy ending, sure, but as a result his life got dissatisfying and his relationship fell apart in a completely normal, human way. That doesn't actually diminish Deadpool 2 and saving Vanessa, btw, because bringing her back to life means life will go on and sometimes life just happens that way. Bringing her back means she has the chance to go on living and sometimes that means making decisions that aren't all about Wade. That's a good thing.
And likewise, Deadpool & Wolverine might get another sequel. I'm actually fine if it does! I'm fine if another villain just pops out of nowhere to interrupt their peace and quiet.
But here's the thing it will be interrupting their hard-won happy ending. They got the happy ending. We got to see Deadpool save his world of 9 people and add Worst Universe Logan to it. We got to see Logan from the Worst Universe find a loving family, even if he didn't get the original one back. We got to see everyone in peace and at rest having got what they wanted and what they needed. We got to see characters we love be happy.
Deadpool as a franchise understands that. It understands that we love these characters and, at some point, we want to see them happy after their trials and tribulations are over. I wish the MCU would remember that more often in its other stories, that not everything needs to end on a hook. Sometimes it can end with happily ever after and that still doesn't mean the story is over forever. Maybe it's just for now, but whether or not the story continues, Deadpool understood we on some level want to see our beloved characters left behind in a good place.
What I'm getting from the Deadpool & Wolverine reviews is that 50% of the audience watched a movie in which a straight actor in a costume makes a lot of inappropriate gay jokes, while the other 50% of the audience watched a movie in which a queer character makes a lot of inappropriate sex jokes.
I'm in the latter group myself, but I think both interpretations are valid to an extent.
The 1st interpretation describes the movie Walt Disney Studios was trying to distribute.
The 2nd interpretation describes the movie lead actor Ryan Reynolds and director Shawn Levy were trying to make.
While I was reading some of the negative reviews of Deadpool&Wolverine I have realized something
D&W might not be a good movie on a technical basis (I don’t even try to question that), and that still doesn’t stop it from being a great experience and an authentic Deadpool story
Like, is the plot lacking and are there holes in the story and could the emotional parts have been handled better? Yes, obviously
I keep seeing people writing “demand better” and “expect more from the writers/production”
I am quite far from defending Disney, but like, honestly, I don’t need any of that from a Deadpool movie (or a Deadpool anything)
Plot wise, the first two movies weren’t great, you could say that they were better than D&W, but still idk why people are now acting like the writing was anywhere near being "good" and this one was a huge drop in quality
The first one literally followed the most generic superhero story plotline ever. You could say “well that’s his origin story” but like only kinda true and it could have been done better and from a completely different angle (I can admit that and I still love it)
The later half of the second movie is on the same level in being disjointed as the third movie. It's a hot mess, with objectively bad writing (and one of my all time favorite movies)
Now, I am thinking of some of the Deadpool comics I read
I might just haven’t read enough, but I don’t really think they have "great plots". I remember reading Suicide Kings, some stories from Udon studios, along with other short stories, parts of the Deadpool kills XYZ stuff and “Isn’t it Bromantic”, plus many more where he was a side character)
The videogame had the best portrayal of Yellow and White but basically everything in there was questionable (plot, jokes, characterization, everything), I enjoyed it, but good God
His smaller parts in cartoons were cool but again, nothing major
Now, back to the newest film
I personally am content with the plot being bad, the emotional parts lacking and the whole thing being basically a disjointed mess
If I want any of those things done well, I look for it elsewhere
All this is to say that I feel like people are wanting to get something from a Deadpool story that wasn’t even there in the first place, is not there currently and will most likely never be there
I am not saying that people shouldn’t expect more or even that they are in the wrong for saying that the movie was bad and they wanted more, I just don’t think it’s a reasonable expectation
I know am repeating myself, but for me the authentic Deadpool experience can be described as “subjectively, I had fun, objectively, oh boy..”
I guess I am kinda preaching to the choir here, with D&W being the highest grossing R rated film ever, but still
Finally saw Deadpool & Wolverine, and while I liked it on the whole I don't like the bit right before the ending with Wade telling Logan it turns out he was actually 'the best Wolverine'.
I get the impulse, but it undercuts the best message in the movie. The need to Matter and to Belong, and how those two things feel intricately connected for everybody that was banished to the Void.
I'm just thinking about Knowing, from an omnipotent source, that I am the Worst Version of myself. In infinite timelines, infinite choices and possibilities, I am The Greatest Waste of Potential. There is no one lower.
And then imagining being told that I am still, fundamentally a Good Person. That I can still Choose, what the Worst Version of me looks like. That the Worst Version of me can still show up to the final fight, still be better the next day, still improve and try and work harder.
That realizing the Worst Version of me is still Loved, and deserving of being Loved. And that it's my choice to do what I want with that.
Unfortunately Deadpool & Wolverine did not go that route, but if I want to see that story I can just watch 'Everything, Everywhere, All At Once' or some of my favorite 'Two People Stuck in a Time Loop' media. My favorite tropes are fully on display...
OKAY I’ve been seeing this make it’s rounds through TikTok and I wanted to give my two cents
So we know how Deadpool’s speech bubbles are yellowed on the inside instead of the typical-character white? Some people are attributing this to his horrible gasoline-and-gargled-rocks voice, to make the distinction that he’s, y’know, sickly
I THINK THIS IS BULLSHIT (sort of)
Okay stay with me, YES it IS that, but ALSO have we considered the fact that, hey, narration boxes (and editors notes for clarification) are also yellow??
Deadpool is speaking to the reader (that 4th-wall breaking rascal /pos) and a broader audience, not just the other characters!
LET ME JUST SAY that this shouldn’t really be news to people, it’s common sense and clever visual storytelling, but to claim it’s JUST because his voice is distinctive is just a sad, gross understatement of DP’s character and his audacious sass/4th wall breaking abilities
People talk a lot about Nolan North's version of Wade in comparison to Ryan's - because they are the two with audible diction I'm assuming, and I like both, but for different reasons.
Nolan makes his Wade sound more overtly unstable; he keeps more of the twang of the comics (though his voice also isn't rough), it always modulates in intensity, like a much milder version of the joker. It's a lot of fun to listen to imo.
Ryan goes in an entirely different direction. His Deadpool voice (not Wade, because he does them differently) is deliberately light, airy and friendly. He does Canadian Customer Service Voice and not only is it funny, it makes for a perfect contrast to his insane antics and catches both viewer and characters off guard when he flips on a coin and starts going ballistic.
His Wade, unlike Nolan, who seems to keep his voice pretty similar whether Wade is in or out of the suit, is much darker. A little deeper, but mostly darker in the sense that when the mask is off, Wade is fucking miserable. He's nearly always angry or emotionally challenged when out of the suit, both before, during and after weapon x. Ryan's maskless Wade is a hurting boy, utterly done with the world and/or lashing out and you can hear it in his delivery.
