#dnd devil

[maetersart]

The Blade 🗡

"Now, you stand above your father. Above all those lesser men. Soon, the entire world will kneel at your feet. And I will always be by your side, my Blade."

[cyancees]

big bad from d&d oneshot i cooked up :)

[fsanyadarkpaw]

she's so silly I love her

[disarmonia]

Chaal the Infernal Smith 🔥 Introducing Chaal - a genderless devil trapped within my D&D fighter Vedana's weapon, a mace called the Iron Brand. Just a visualization of their incorporeal form for our game. ____________ After russia's most recent massive attack on Ukraine our energy supply has suffered greatly again, though our engineers keep working tirelessly to restore things, those monsters keep bombing it all back to rubble and dust, to ensure this winter will be as dark and cold for innocent civilians as possible. I am trying to complete as much art as I can during the few hours we get access to electricity now, so I am hoping things can get a little better soon, though they will inevitably keep getting worse, as there is no end in sight, only a clown show performance by sadists in both russia and the US. Just tired and disheartened. Have to keep going.

____________

If you want to support me and my art - my tip jars are HERE along with links to trusted foundations to support Ukraine.

[gremalkinn]

A new DND character! Avarice, the Greed Fiend. She is 7 feet tall and acts like a confused magpie

[loremmaradeur]

Vampires, devils, souls and worshippers

Alright, I'm alive and ready to dive into this topic. Be prepared, it's going to take some time to read.

So that happens that both of these fictional creatures are one of my favourites. And with recent published DnD roolbook we've got bits of expanded lore of how those two kinds of creatures can interact with each other. With that, I think I will try my best for dissipating one really popular myth surrounding both Cazador Szarr and Astarion Ancunin, and it is:

Does the Ascension ritual means losing the soul of the future-to-be Vampire Ascendant? Does Astarion specifically loses his soul through the ritual?

Shortest answer possible as TL;DR - No, he does not and his soul remains fine, as it only could for a vampire being. But we aren't here for the short answers, yes?

Before delving further, I think it will be helpful to refresh memory a bit about the very nature of vampire souls in DnD (yes, Ravenloft related to Forgotten Realms setting, we can freely take info from there) about which I also wrote a post of sum-up.

With that, we move on the new information we've got recently.

First of all, I didn't even know this was quite a common belief, but vampires of all kinds, spawns, brides, lords, true etc, do possess a soul. It does not becomes "lost", it does become cursed and separated into two material planes, yes, but it is very much intact in every vampire.

To prove it further from Astarion's Book of Hungers it is heavily implemented that Cazador Szarr himself was a Vampire Infernalist - a vampire worshipping the devil, in this case it was Archdevil Mephistopheles worshipped. Devils bargain in souls - if vampires had none, they would have nothing to offer (unless just a servitude for the Archdevil).

What does it means to us? Very simple point - we can safely say for sure it was Cazador who had the misfortune to be Archdevil's main target.

While mortal wizards tend to hesitate before bartering their souls to devils for magical power, vampire wizards often believe their immortality will exempt them from any infernal claim to their souls. The archdevil Mephistopheles happily exploits such hubris and proves that even undead aren’t immune to the laws of the Nine Hells. The greatest hell-bound vampires are masters of hellfire called infernalists, who prey on mages. Vampire infernalists are usually too arrogant to work together; even a large city isn’t likely to harbor more than one vampire infernalist. Vampire infernalists are dormant during the day, retreating to resting places hidden from the sun’s searing rays before emerging at night to commit unsavory deeds.

I want to emphasize on line The archdevil Mephistopheles happily exploits such hubris and proves that even undead aren’t immune to the laws of the Nine Hells. Take that into the nature of Cazador's deal and realize that Mephistopheles most likely was awaiting the Cazador's failure from the very start of this deal.

We know from the BG3 directly that Cazador made a deal.

Raphael: In full, the contract states that Cazador will be granted knowledge of an infernal ritual so vile it has never been performed.

The deal initially wasn't about Ascending ritual, but the knowledge about it. We can assume that for worshipping the archdevil Cazador got that Black Mass Scroll with various rituals described in it.

[Unfurling the scroll reveals a list of foul rites and rituals, detailing all the ways death can be turned to one's advantage (or simply made more interesting). The Rite of Perfect Slaughter, the Liturgy of the Dead, the Sacrament of the Damned, and many more strange, accursed rituals cover the parchment. The final entry, however, is familiar.] The Rite of Profane Ascension Oh, piteous dead! Oh, ravenous dead! Immortality is your gift, but darkness is your prison and hunger its gaoler. The Rite of Profane Ascension will release you. Walk in the sun. Suffer not from hunger. Grow your power beyond anything you imagined. A pact has been made with the Lord of Hellfire. Deliver unto him seven thousand souls, each bearing an Infernal mark, and you shall be free of your chains. You shall know true power. Deliver the souls. Speak the words. Ecce dominus, Has animas offero in sacrificio, Nunc volo potestatem quam pollicitus es mihi.

This initially is a pact that absolutely looks like a one-time bargain. You make a sacrifice of thousands souls - you get the power, simple as that. As much as it's tempting to assume it couldn't be so simple just do keep in mind that initially the Ascending Ritual was never supposed to be for Astarion but solely for Cazador. Cazador would have more consequences of performing the ritual and becoming even stronger archdevil worshipper, as for him it would mean more power from his patron - more work. Astarion wasn't the worshipper of Mephistopheles and after performing the Ascendind ritual for himself owes nothing for Archdevil. The one who made a pact, a deal, a contract with Archdevil and failed himself in that outcome was Cazador, after all.

Moving on, I think it would also be helpful to see what exactly are those pacts and deals with devils, what are their kinds.

From book Baldur's Gate: Descend into Avernus we can get this information:

WHAT DEVILS WANT A devil wants souls, as every soul that it acquires brings the devil one step closer to its next promotion. If a character wants something from a devil but isn·t willing to trade their soul, the devil might ask the character to perform a service for it instead. Archdevils are also fond of making mortals swear fealty to them. SOULS When characters give up their souls to devils, they are promising to serve in the Nine Hells as devils themselves after death. Once promised to a devil, a character's soul can't be claimed by another creature. SERVICES A devil that can't claim a character's soul might demand a service by way of compensation. Such services drive the character toward committing evil or morally questionable acts designed to make the character more amenable to darker deals in the future. Here are a few examples: 1. Without using magical coercion, the character must convince another mortal to enter into an infernal contract with the devil. 2. The character is told about a plague, an invasion. or other calamity that the devil has orchestrated, but must do nothing to affect the outcome. 3. The character must steal a holy relic from a goodaligned temple and deliver it to the devil or one of its subordinates.

Worth to give more attention to line: When characters give up their souls to devils, they are promising to serve in the Nine Hells as devils themselves after death. Once promised to a devil, a character's soul can't be claimed by another creature. So basically speaking even if one does sell their soul, the soul remains kind of intact within the seller until they die.

By reading this I came up to a bit different conclusion than I had before. You see, it turns out it's not necessary for you to sell your soul in order to serve devils and get some stuff from them. And that made me think that the most logical way the whole thing with Cazador and Astarion and Ascending Rite could work is that:

If Cazador's soul was already sold to Mephistopheles and at his possession, Astarion wouldn't be able to swap his own position as ritual's "sacrifice" with Cazador as "ritual performer" - you cannot sell the same soul twice to the Archdevil.

Therefore, Cazador hasn't initially sold his soul, but rather swore to serve Mephistopheles to get the Black Mess scrolls about powerful rituals.

Alright, but what if by performing the Ascending Ritual Astarion creates a new contract and now is obligued to serve?

That wouldn't be possible for a simple reason: devils aren't sloppy like that, especially Archdevils. You see, devilish creatures love to be extra, love to be official - they all are Lawful Evil for a reason. They love rules and love to follow them - and love it so much they can easily fool anyone who wasn't careful enough to read the whole contract and point out certain loopholes in it to save themselves in the future.

So, literally no contract or a deal go without a paper, a contract written in devil's tongue and the sign with name. We can see the example of such official process going on with Wyll breaching his contract. Mizora not only makes it too all official, but also calls for the additional devil witnesses. Every contract is highly business level. Every contract is a separate paper - you can even steal one from Raphael's house for example.

Just performing the ritual does not create the contract. Astarion literally signed nothing, there were no devils present, maybe only Mephisto enjoying the show and aquiring all the sacrifices, but that's all. If devils were actually creating contracts and deals just by simplest deed related to them, well... they would soon run out of any budget, trust me. (believe me i'm from the family of lawyers it's in my blood lmao it's a joke buuut)

Source: Baldur's Gate: Descend into Avernus

Also worth to take a look at the forms of contracts:

To even further prove this point that after Ascended Astarion owes nothing to Mephistopheles, we have this curious dialogue between him and the tiefling of Mephisto:

>Are you bound to Mephistopheles?

Astarion: Mephistopheles has created a new monster, not bound a creature to his will. The Rite was honored, the sacrifice is over.

[exclusive for Mephistopheles tiefling]Astarion: As you live with his gift, for better or worse, now so do I.

Yet another thing I want to point out is the part of Breaching the contract I listed above. You might then think that alright, even if it was Cazador's contract, doesn't it mean that his spawns are also obligated to follow it? And I think that no. We can look both at the Ascended Astarion and Unascended Astarion and see that those both paths do not suffer from any consequences of performing/not performing the ritual of promised to Mephistopheles sacrifice. And while I personally is way more concerned for Unascended Astarion and other spawns, as they have all chances to bring down upon themselves Mephistophele's wrath, half a year after the end of main events they seem to be fine without archdevils attention of why they weren't all yet sacrifised to him.

After all, Mephistopheles is described as Archdevil with kind of terrible attention span🤭 He loves to experiment and often forgets about his own projects if he finds something new to catch his attention, leaving lots of stuff unfinished (relatable, isn't it?)

All of that means that nor Astarion nor any other of thousands vampire spawns were ever obligued by a contract made specifically by Cazador and for Cazador himself.

I see in the fandom this discource about "losing the soul" kind of not delves into the actual nature of losing one's soul, but somehow is presented more like a metaphor for "losing one's personality, the feeling of self", to say that "Ascended Astarion isn't Astarion anymore". And to me that couldn't be more ridiculous, as we have Wyll in the game (did all those people forget about his existence?). The man literally sold his soul to Mizora. He can even become a devil himself, losing his human nature. He is bound by a contract to a devil. Does that ever mean he loses his own self, his personality, Wyll losing Wyll? Nope, doesn't seem to be the case. Despite everything, it still seems to be the Wyll we know - the hero of the Frontiers, and he never loses his morals too. Why would that be any different to any other character performing the same actions related to devils? Maybe people should less stick to our world's perception of souls and losing it and more look at the canon lore we can all read and understand.

P.S.1 With everything I tried to convey, I do highly recommend you all to read the sources yourself, to analyze it yourself, to think for yourself and maybe come down to your own conclusions. Anyone can absolutely try to prove me wrong and success. But this whole big-ass post is my own take. You are absolutely free to agree or disagree.

With all love to Ascended Astarion and to the community who helped me a lot to write this post🦇🖤❤️🦇

(c) Myers, the Astarion's devilish advocate😈 If you are interested, you can check my Master Post with collection of everything I wrote so far on topic of AA and quite a bit of fandom drama, nothing to hide.

P.S.2 From Astarion's Book of Hungers I do love his commentary on Harvester Devils: Unfortunately, finding these dandyish devils’ contractual loopholes is not nearly as much fun as I had hoped. It's not my idea, but I wanted to repeat it too that with Astarion's magistrate background perhaps Cazador chose him as servant to precisely look for the loopholes in devil's contracts for him, proving further that Cazador might not be the most loyal devil worshipper and basically asked for being punished for such games. Just another curious thought. P.S.3 And also, finishing line: Raphael is most likely rivals with his own dad, but don't you think it's kind of smells funny that Raphael sold us the information about Ascending Ritual for a ridiculously cheap price? No soul selling, no oath given, just one orthon returend, while Cazador had to swore to worship to get the same stuff. Cazador's failure and doom was planned from start, it seems.

[echoechowhiskey]

Found some contradicting devil lore while reading Mordenkainens tome and now I'm wondering on some things about a certain middle aged devil.

I'm reading the part about The Trial of Asmodeus and the Ruby Rod and it's rules have me confused.

So during the description of Asmodeus's trial, papa devil states "Mortals who refused a devils offer were left alone, in accordance with the law." When speaking on claims his devils are harassing people outta their souls.

Then Primus, because Asmodeus is a smooth mf, decides not to punish the devil for anything but gives him the Ruby Rod.

TO ME that seems to make kidnapping and torturing a mortal to compel them to sign a contract illegal?

So wtf happened with the Hope thing???

Cause she, soundly, told Raph to fuck right off as far as I've seen.

If you look up the question of how he managed to do it without punishment it says he didn't technically break the law because there was no established agreement to break but my understanding of the rod was to not only keep devils honest within contracts but as a whole. So that they wouldn't be out there kidnapping important mortals and what not. It even says in a couple places when you look up the question of does the rod stop devils from kidnapping uncontracted mortals that yes, it does.

Possibly a loop hole via Korillas contract? Where in SHE is technically the kidnapper?

Idk. But to me it seems like he is a whole lot less lawful then he puts forth and that the rod should have smot someone..

If anyone with more worldly knowledge of toril has any info I'd love to hear it cause I'm working some cambion stuff into my girls bg and I'd like to know if there's more on this.

[delsinsfire]

Lord Asmodeus for my DnD campaign