#dog packing

[darkwood-sleddog]

Do you have any recommendations for reading materials on canine physiology, especially as it relates to weight packing/pulling? You seem like you have a lot of knowledge about that kind of stuff and I really want to know more. (It's something I'm interested in getting into with my own dog but I really want to understand the mechanics and science of it before I even think about starting lol)

Here are my choices for beginners:

1.) Structure in Action: The Makings of a Durable Dog by Pat Hastings, Wendy E. Wallace DVM cVA, and Erin Ann Rouse

This is a great basic introduction to canine physiology and how structure relates to function

2.) MUSH! A Beginner’s Manual of Sled Dog Training (Revised) by Charlene G. LaBelle.

This is a GREAT beginners book for aspiring mushers and will walk you through the basics of pretty much everything. It also has some short sections of historical accounts intertwined with the information. There are chapters on weight pull, packing and pulk as well.

3.) Dog Driver: A Guide for the Serious Musher by Miki and Julie Collins.

This is a more serious guide, so I def recommend being somewhat familiar with the information presented in the first two books on this list before proceeding. While it might be a little outdated in the dog behavior department (especially when it comes to punishment/praise and hierarchy) I like this one for the chapters that go over the physical aspects of what makes a good sled dog with diagrams and it is, in that sense, a bit of a blend of the first two books on this list. It has a small section on packing.

[darkwood-sleddog]

Hurtta dropped a new dog backpack called Expedition Pack ECO, the paneers seems too far back on the dogs back to me, but I'm not familiar with dog backpacks. I'm pretty disappointed as they usually make sure their gear is ergonomic.

I'd say they're pretty far back on the dog in my opinion also, but I'm also 50/50 on Hurtta's previous backpack designs (not the worst, not the best imo).

I will give the design props for having the largest point of the bag dip towards the front end of the dog when so many designs have the largest point of the pack tip towards the back (this will keep the most weight towards the front which is good!).

Overall this reminds me of the Ruffwear Switchback pack which i was also not a big fan of for the same reasons you highlight with the Hurtta one, but I'd say the Hurtta one is better than the Switchback just for at least weighing the bags largest area towards the front:

(Hurtta facing right on the left, Ruffwear facing left on the right)

*please note i do not think either of these packs are good, but they are certainly better than a lot of packs on the market. However, in my opinion, you can get more ergonomically correct packs for the same price (Wolfpacks, any other Ruffwear design).

Overall, this design issue seems to be fairly common across dog gear companies when they try to make a smaller/lighter pack option (see Non-Stop getting on my shit list for the same thing below even though i do like the where weight is carried in their larger pack...):

[darkwood-sleddog]

Me: seeing some poor sod’s dog wearing that I’ll fitting outward hound dog pack from a mile away…

Me: don’t say anything don’t say anything don’t say anything…

Me: I hate to be a bummer but please do not let your dog wear that

[darkwood-sleddog]

Thanks for answering and that totally makes sense- I definitely wouldn't expect a complete detailed evaluation from just pictures. My hope is someone with more experience than I have can weigh in on whether or not this looks, like, clearly and definitely too big on him haha.

Here's the boy- my worry has been that the saddlebags go too far down his back and/or hang too low (they sit about at the level of his elbow), since he's at the very bottom of the size range for this size of pack.

That looks far too big imo. I would go down a size if possible. Here’s Sigurd in the L/XL of the same pack for reference:

[darkwood-sleddog]

Can I ask you for some advice about dog limitations?

My Mom has a smooth border collie mix (girl named Bean) who goes with her everywhere. As such, she’s been putting a vest on Bean so that the dog carries some of her stuff, like cat keys and so on.

Mom thought she could try a heavier/bigger vest a couple weeks back but Bean kind of seems scared of it/tired. We were doing a lot of walking uphill that day so she might’ve been just tired from that.

So are there any good indicators for when it’s actually bad in the long term vs a new and unsettling surprise? Does she need just to build up her endurance/muscles a little more? Bean is only 3 and very healthy so it shouldn’t be a huge issue if so.

But if it’s too heavy to be sustainable, how should we judge for that in the future? I heard once dogs can pull 5x their weight but I don’t have a source for that or what kind of exercise that would be (all day thing vs a short exercise). We obviously don’t want to tucker her out, so is there a good metric for that sort of thing (for example: dog can carry 20% of their weight all day no problem, etc.)

Here’s a picture by the way :)

If the dog is uncomfortable you need to take a step back. It could be that this feels different and that she's not used to that or finds it uncomfortable. Realistically a dog carrying your keys isn't going to be a lot of weight, it depends on what else is in the pack. Typically most guides will say dogs can carry anywhere from 20-25% of their body weight in a pack. For breeds bred specifically for heavy freighting & carting such as Malamutes, Bernese Mountain Dogs and Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs usually we go a maximum of 30%.

Some things I would suggest:

1.) Take everything back to step 1 of packing which is wearing the harness/pack when empty until dog is used to and walking happy in that equipment.

2.) when weight is added make sure it is equal on each side. A dog pack must be balanced or else it can twist, rub or sag uncomfortably. You can make homemade balance bags by filling small freezer bags with a small amount of sand or kibble.

3.) How does this new vest fit? Is it adjusted properly? Does it slide around anywhere? Are the bags themselves as far forward on the dog as possible (the strongest point for a dog to carry weight)? All these things can be a factor.

And then there is just that it's new and tiring. It is okay for a dog to be tired after participating in something new, or doing hard and heavy work they are unused to. I am 100% trying to tucker my dogs out when they pack, but animals get in shape as they work out over time just like people so the more she does the stronger she will become. Go slow, light weight and less mileage. Increase over a long period of time. Packing heavier than they are used to can be hard physical work even if it may not feel that heavy to you yet!

[darkwood-sleddog]

What are the packs for? Is it extra weight for dryland mushing specifically or something different entirely?

A dog running in harness should never wear excess weight. Dog packing is done separately, the dog wears a dog backpack and carries a specific amount of weight on hikes. The Alaskan Malamute, Siberian Husky, and Greater Swiss Mountain Dog breed clubs all offer a title on packing!

We usually do it all spring/summer until our fall mushing season starts. Didn’t do as much as we would have liked last year because we were still adjusting to the three dog thing but:

[darkwood-sleddog]

Hey I was wondering what breeds of dogs packing is good for? Are there any that are not suited for it?

All breeds can pack! But I would caution any significant weight for frail dogs, dogs with very poor conformation such as a weak back/down on pasterns, elderly dogs and dogs with known joint issues.

Any healthy dog can carry light weight and heavier weights DO need to be worked up to slowly. Some breeds such as the Alaskan Malamute, Siberian Husky, Greater Swiss Mountain Dog and Bernese Mountain Dog have been packed traditionally and will likely be capable of carrying heavier weights than other breeds with equal conditioning. In AKC those breed clubs also offer titles.

Meanwhile, some breeds may be less well suited to packing due to their original purpose and/or general conformation (I do not imagine sighthounds would do great in this area to be honest with you but there are always outliers). You may also have difficulty finding equipment for very small breeds.

Ruffwear's Pack Guide is a great place to start and as a company I find that not only are they widely available, but they offer the widest variety of packs to suit a wide variety of dogs, lifestyles and activities. Their packs all feature built in harnesses which makes things a bit more streamlined for the beginner or equipment minimalist.

Meanwhile if you have an extra large size dog, often the type that has traditionally been packed, such as the different mountain dogs and sled dogs, Wolfpacks is a great option as their size range is more suited to giant dogs. But overall this company caters to a more serious/traditional way of dog packing where the pack is a stand alone piece of equipment (no harness built in) vs Ruffwear which tries to cater to a wider audience.

[darkwood-sleddog]

April 4, 2021

Packing with the dogs, I LOVE the Wolfpack backpack and I think I might get some for the other dogs. It in no way slips or slides. The cordura does a much better job of gripping the pack in place unlike the Ruffwear packs which I was really struggling with on Slash today. His fur is so slick that even with the pack balanced and adjusted correctly it kept slipping sideways which was frustrating .