I’m never going to buy the “Elain is a spoiled rotten child” interpretation that I see floating around fandom. To me, Elain is a chronic people pleaser.
She desires to please everyone around her at the expense of herself. It is why she so desperately wants to be seen. She is deeply unhappy. Symbolically, Elain is described as a trembling fawn because she is frozen like a deer in headlights in the face of what she wants vs performing what other’s expect of her.
She does this because she is suffering from self worth issues and does not believe her needs or wants are important—and that she doesn’t possess value beyond her complacency and her superficial beauty.
In fact, I believe her book is going to be about becoming selfish. I HOPE it’s about finally becoming MORE SELFISH, which she has never afforded herself to be. I hope she’s selfish and leaves the cage of limitations that has been created for her in the Night Court. I hope she’s selfish and chooses love and a mating bond because she wants it. I hope she’s selfish enough to finally put herself first in order to become the strong and brave female character she was always destined to be.
How do you interpret the "Elain is Elain" line? Was he calling her daft?
I think that line reveals what Rhysand really thinks of Elain, and I see it as a veiled way of dismissing her altogether. So yes, I believe he was calling her daft. He doesn’t respect Elain…at all, and that’s why he effectively treats her like a child and thus, feels no need to take her seriously the way he does Nesta. That line comes from a very telling exchange between Feyre and Rhysand where Feyre confronts him with his obvious hatred of Nesta and he totally dodges the question. He gives Feyre a non-answer that demonstrates two things: 1) Despite claiming to be angry at both sisters, Rhysand reserves culpability for Nesta (for reasons unknown, and 2) He couldn’t care less about Elain.
It’s like the saying “Boys will be boys” in the sense that it’s vague and conveys some form of acceptance for the behavior being demonstrated. It’s essentially an excuse to explain the discrepancy in his resentment towards Feyre’s family (though funnily enough, he never breathes a negative word about her father or mother). In his view, the ghosts from Feyre’s past and her air-headed sister will never resist his will or disobey him, but Nesta will. Hence, why he dismisses her as a fool so quickly.
Well I might disagree but I never mind hearing other peoples thoughts, this is fascinating to me actually... So lets dive in to it, i have lots of Elain thoughts as I am sure you know ☺
I definitely think her POV will indeed clear a lot up and give us a better idea, because what we have to take in to account much like with Nesta, our only view for so long was through Feyre’s mind who is quite biased and as we know not always the most reliable perspective.
It was unfortunate that the few Nes/El scenes we got were tainted by Nestas rightful anger, but I especially think the “Fuck you” scene between them is such a normal sibling dynamic we never saw through Feyre previously.
Listen, I don’t disagree that she could frustrate some people, I cannot think of a single ACOTAR character that hasn’t frustrated me at some point... I think the bigger issue is people use her kindness as a weapon against her, and do not give her any space to evolve.
This time last year when people were backing Nesta (me included) and we took to time to understand that despite her sharp tong and razor sharp looks she had so much to uncover as we saw in ACOSF. What bothers me is that people do not seem to extend this same leeway because she is not you “typical-sassy-bad-girl”... not every character has to be that way to be interesting or strong.
There is nothing bland about being kind... I think a few people on this site could learn a thing or two about that to be frank.
Anyways I am veering sorry, so to answer your questions, I think that is a very simplified view of the situation, and though I agree you might be right about if she spoke to him they could just resolve it, that simply isn’t realistic when emotions are so high and trauma is being dealt with. I will also link a phenomenal post about her trauma and its correlation over all.
If it were that simple Nessian would not have been 24/7 angst for years. If they had just communicated in general they would have had a much simpler journey, but that is not always life... When you have your plate full.
She also might be feeling a certain sense of duty to not disrupting the ties between them all and that can only be further seen in that POV when Rhys prioritises just that.
As a reader we know Lucien, we understand him and the situations with Ianthe like you said, and just generally he is a good male, but she doesn’t.
She does not know him all that well to make those kind of big judgement calls, especially being surrounded by quite possessive mates as it were, though for them it is reciprocated that is her experience thus far, so for her to be potentially weary is normal in my opinion...
And to be honest I think they will simply have a talk and work shit out, but it was not going to happen in previous books, that simply wouldn’t make any sense, us watching her make a crucial choice through Nesta/Feyre’s eyes rather than on her own journey and book. Of course it hasn’t happened yet...
Also the way Feysand was pushing Nessian together despite Nesta’s protest I can’t quite blame her for not feeling super comfortable. She is being clear enough with how she feels in all her scenes with him and yet they continue to invite him to family holidays and force their proximity.
I think of course for a period Elain was her own obstacle but ACOSF started laying the groundwork for her rising...
She definitely put her foot down in ACOSF wouldn’t you say? Do you not think she asserted her own autonomy?
I think she has certainly been overcoming her past and dealing with it in a constructive way, she is helping other, finding friends and being happy. She has made major leaps from say ACOWAR.
Elain has never been weak, she has always been rather quiet and wise, but she has never shied away from things when eventually push came to shove.
I still think she has a ways to go breaking the mould her family put her in but I have no doubt she will because it has already begun. And I for one look forward to it, and giving her the patience to grow as I have for past ACOTAR characters.
I feel like I got a lil sidetracked at time lol but I hope that made sense!
Every curtain shoved back as far as it could go, to let in as much sun as possible.
As if any darkness was abhorrent. As if to chase it away.” pg 154
Helion = High Lord of the Day Court = Lucien = light. That’s all I’m saying, haha.
To me, this is not-so-subtle foreshadowing, of the same likes as Cassian’s “he was made from fire and wind” that hinted Nessian were mates.
“And seated in a small chair before the sunniest of the windows, her back to us, was Elain.” pg 154
Again, this seems too good to be a coincidence.
“My breath caught as I edged around her chair. Beheld the city view she stared so blankly at.” pg 155
Note how many times she stares blankly, how many times her eyes are “vacant” and glazed as she speaks with others, aside from one particular individual, in this book.
“She didn’t so much as look at me as I said softly, “Elain?” pg 155
For a quarter of the book, Elain can’t hold people’s gaze. Except for Lucien (And Feyre, only once).
“Elain had always been gentle and sweet---and I had considered it a different sort of strength. A better strength. To look at the hardness of the world and choose, over and over, to love, to be kind. She had always been so full of light.” pg 156
*cough*
“Perhaps that was why she now kept all the curtains open. To fill the void that existed where all of that light had once been.
And now nothing remained.” pg 156
Ironically, both of their names mean the exact same thing:
“The name Elaine is a French baby name. In French, the meaning of the name Elaine is: Shining light.”
“Elaine as a girls' name is pronounced ee-LAYNE. It is of Greek origin, and the meaning of Elaine is "sun ray".”
The name Elaine is a girl baby name. In Greek, the meaning of the name Elaine is: the bright one.”
Elain is often viewed as the gentle and delicate sister---comparable to a flower. Flowers need light to sustain themselves. If they’re deprived of light (or anything necessary to their survival), they cripple and gradually die.
“My stiff, limping steps, at least, had eased into a smoother gait by the time I found Elain in the family library.
Still staring at the window, but she was out of her room.” pg 245
Stare count: 2
“Elain’s eyes at last slid to mine. The first time she’d done so.
Even wasted away by grief and despair, Elain’s beauty was remarkable. Hers was face that could bring kings to their knees. And yet there was no joy in it. No light. No life.” pg 246
In my opinion, these examples prove that Elain needs light. Sure, Elain and Az’s friendship definitely helped her recovery from some of the hardships she experienced, but ultimately, she needs some brightness.
As someone has stated before, it appears Lucien and Elain were also both attracted to the library!
“Elain only turned toward the sunny windows again, the light dancing in her hair.” pg 246
More light. Stare count: 3
“There’s a plate of biscuits. Would you like one?”
He didn't expect her to answer, and he gave himself all of one more minute before he’d rise from his chair and leave, hopefully avoiding Nesta’s return.
But sunlight on gold caught his eye---and Elain slowly turned from her vigil at the window.” pg 250
Lucien had seen the way she’d interacted with Feyre prior to the library scene, and thought Elain would react to him the same way.
(“But Lucien was standing in the doorway.
And from the devastation on his face, I knew he’d heard ever word. Seen and heard and felt the hollowness and despair radiating from her.” pg 156)
Can I also say radiate is an interesting word to use in this context, considering its definition:
RADIATE
emit (energy, especially light or heat) in the form of rays or waves
Anyway, Lucien saw the sunlight on her hair, and she turned to face him, folks. Something she likely didn’t even offer Nesta, and had only done to Feyre once. This man is technically a stranger to her, and this is their first actual conversation/interaction since Hybern, yet she did something she’d barely done for her sisters.
“Looking at her now. . .
She was pale, yes. The vacancy still glazing her features.
But he couldn’t breathe as she faced him fully.
(...)
Her eyes were the brown of a fawn’s coat. And he could have sworn something sparked in them as she met his gaze.” pg 250
First of all, the vacancy and glazed eyes thing I had mentioned before has finally decided to appear!
Second of all, Elain faced Lucien fully. Elain’s eyes had only slid to Feyre’s, meanwhile she turned towards Lucien completely.
Lucien is the only one who ignites this sparkle in her eyes. And the only one who ignites any emotion, for that matter.
“For a long moment, Elain’s face did not shift, but those eyes seemed to focus a bit more.”
No one has yet to evoke such a reaction out of Elain.
“You betrayed us.”
He wished she’d shoved him out of the window behind her. “It--it was a mistake.”
Her eyes went frank and cold. “I was to be married in a few days.” pg 251
An emotion!
“She looked away---toward the window. “I can hear your heart,” she said quietly.” pg 252
She never turns away. She looks away, yes, but she remains facing him. Interesting.
“When I sleep,” she murmured, “I can hear your heart beating through the stone.” She angled her head, as if the city view held some answer. “Can you hear mine?” pg 252
Not sure if this qualifies as staring, but here ya go: Stare Count: 4
“I flashed Nesta a glare, but Lucien rose. “I came for a book.”
“Well, find one and leave.”
Elain only stared out the window, unaware---or uncaring.” pg 252
When Lucien is ordered to leave by Nesta, Elain returns back to her shell. Uncaring, unaware.
“Thirty minutes later, Azriel carried Elain down, my sister silent and unresponsive in his arms.” pg 253
Not surprised Elain did not react to Azriel, but can we see the difference here? Lucien is undoubtedly a stranger, and she’s clearly more responsive to him than her own sisters, and those in the Inner Circle, who she had likely seen when Feyre was at the Spring Court.
Remember when Nesta said this:
“She (Elain) will not leave her room. She will not stop crying. She will not eat, or sleep, or drink.” pg 153
Isn’t interesting that ever since Lucien arrived, she has been able to both eat (technically drank broth, but I consider it eating) and sleep?
“No. I managed to get her to drink some broth last night. She refused anything else. She’s been talking in those half-riddles all day.” pg 247
Now sleep:
“And I knew she (Nesta) heard as I listened at Elain’s door, knocked once, and poked my head in to find her asleep---breathing.” pg 289
:)
“After a long minute, Madja asked us to join her in fetching Elain a cup of tea---with a pointed glance to the door. We both took the invitation and left our sister in her sunlit room.” pg 296
Always sunny in Elain’s room.
“Pretending, while Lucien and Elain sat in stilted silence by the dim fireplace, an untouched tea service between them.” pg 299
Nothing too special about this phrase. Just that they were making their way to each other on the bridge that is their mating bond. Cuties.
“Elain had picked up the teacup, and now sipped from it without so much as looking at him.” pg 299
I don’t think it’s a big deal she did not glance at him here, considering she let him make his way towards her in their minds. I would assume it’s difficult to be vulnerable like that in front of someone you don’t know very well. Understandable!
“Amren hissed from the other room, “Focus.” The dining table rattled.
The sound seemed to startle Elain, who swiftly set down her teacup. She rose to her feet, and Lucien shot to his.”
″I’m sorry,” he blurted.
“What---what was that?”
(...)
“It---it was a tug. On the bond.”
(...)
Then Nesta was standing in the threshold. “What did you do.” The words were sharp as a blade.
Lucien looked to her, then over to me. A muscle feathered in his jaw. “Nothing,” he said, and again faced his mate. “I’m sorry---if that unsettled you.”
Elain sidled toward Nesta, who seemed to be at a near-simmer. “It felt. . . strange,” Elain breathed. “Like you pulled on a thread tied to my rib.”
Lucien exposed his palms to her. “I’m sorry.”
Elain only stared at him a long moment. And any lucidity faded away as she shook her head, blinking twice, and said to Nesta, “Twin ravens are coming, one white and one black.”pg 301
All I know is way more occurred than just ‘nothing’. A muscle in his jaw basically twitched when asked what he ‘did’ (and he even looked to both Nesta and Feyre beforehand... which is weird since only Nesta had asked him the question? Maybe I’m looking too far into this, haha) , as though he was scared they’d misunderstand what he’d seen/felt/heard.
And as for Elain losing all of her lucidity, it was due to an oncoming vision of the ravens. It appeared as though she tried to fight it by shaking her head. The two blinks seems to be a telltale sign of a vision. Example:
“Nesta’s nostrils flared, but Elain peered up at Cassian, blinking twice. “He snapped your wings, broke your bones.” pg 315
Just saying!
“What can I get you, Elain?”
Only with Elain did she use that voice.
But Elain only shook her head once more. “Sunshine.” pg 302
Hello sunshine, my old friend...
“Nesta cut me a furious stare before guiding our sister down the hall---to the sunny garden in the back.” pg 302
Everywhere Elain goes must be sunny, apparently. ;)
Okay, this was absolutely crazy long. I decided to shorten it into two parts. I’m tagging most meta peeps and those who still (hopefully?) believe in Elucien.
@meabhd replied to your post“friendly reminder Az has a character/personality beyond: *fawns over...”
While this is being discussed... Cassian, like, isn't dumb? I hate that Cassian is pushed aside as the idiot of the group when he is potential is the most emotionally intelligent... He just understands the moods of all the other character's like the other's can't. I love Cassian, and he is being misrepresented dismally
YES. This is so frustrating because Cassian is....Such a complicated, rich character?? Who...Doesn’t get enough meta/things talking just about him tbh. But yes there is so much emotional intelligence there? Like he worked out that Rhys and Feyre were mates but had enough good sense to just...Let them sort things out themselves. He’s the only character who knows that Nesta has been assaulted because he’s the only one who can get any kind of read on her.
The whole leading armies thing too though? Like that’s...not just....you stand at the front of the yelling crowd of soldiers and bam. Leader. Cassian brought the entire Illyrian army under his control as a lowborn bastard warrior. And he has to be able to strategise, think tactically and quickly under huge amounts of pressure, read battles and read and understand his enemies as well so he understands how to win against them. Like? Cassian is incredibly intelligent and it’s...irritating when he gets dismissed the way he does.
It sort of reminds me a little bit of the way Elain gets treated, actually? They have a similar sort of strength in their groups which is emotional intelligence. Feyre and Nesta are both...pretty hopeless when it comes to people tbh but Elain just...gets them. She understands how to coax them to do what she wants, she understands how to read them and what’s best for them in the moment. And that intelligence of hers and the strength that she has as a character so often gets underplayed and she gets reduced down to ‘shy plant girl’ and that’s...it.
But okay yes on the Cassian front, and I suppose circling back to the original Az point I think it’s more irritating because...They’re deliberately written not to be this way? Cassian is set up in the mould of the dumb jock basically with a little bit of ‘greatest warrior ever’ thrown in there too for good measure. And both of those get seriously undermined by the book because Cass, as you said, is incredibly emotionally intelligent, and just intelligent full stop, really. The warrior thing gets undone too because he’s one of the warmest, most kindhearted characters we come across and he takes like 0 pleasure or glory in battle. So you’re supposed to expected him to be thick as mince and take so much pleasure in sort of baser warrior’s instincts and he doesn’t do either.
Same idea with Az he’s set up to be the quiet, reserved, devoted, damaged type and he is. But he also argues back, he states his opinions and his plans even when they upset the people around him that he’s the most devoted to (Rhys/Mor I’m thinking here) Azriel is actually...pretty independent as far as these things go. He even disobeys orders in order to do what he feels is necessary to protect his court and his people. He’s loyal, he’s devoted...But he’s not a mindless servant who just obeys and blindly does as he’s told. And he’s a fun contrast to Cassian in that Cassian doesn’t have that bloodlust but Azriel does. There’s a cold, vengeful darkness in Az we’re not used to characters with his polite, almost shy exterior, having, that icy rage that his calm, composed exterior never quite hints at but it’s there.
Anyway, yes, the point is I AGREE (at length) And also that I should parallel Az and Cass more often there’s a delicious little riddle of contrasts there, they make a lovely little yin and yang type dynamic. ANYWAY.
The author cannot fully develop every single character at the same time. It would be a disservice to the narrative and other characters. Authors must focus and prioritize.
Even so, Elain Archeron has been developed subtly in the background of the narrative. She is a developed character to the extent that makes sense without her POV/book.
We've seen her when she was human. We've seen her try to help Feyre even as a human. We've seen her make mistakes. We've seen her trauma. We've seen her heartbroken and stricken with grief. We've seen her change the tides of war not once but TWICE. We've seen her rejected twice. We've seen her struggle with her powers. We've seen her try to fit into the Night Court. We've seen her kindness. We've seen her turmoil with romantic interests. We've seen her fight back. We've seen her stand up for herself. We've seen her try to help but be denied.
That is a developed AND interesting character. We've seen her highs and lows. We've seen her change. We just don't know the why behind those actions yet, so it may FEEL as though she is underdeveloped. It's a story that has been fed to us slowly and in pieces over time. But that is exactly where we were with Nesta before her book.
This is intentional. SJM planned her books. This is not a failure in writing Elain's character. You must pause certain stories to wait for the right time to tell them.
Elain is more than ready for her book. She doesn't need to develop more. She is not some conundrum that needs to be figured out by SJM.
It's also clear to me that some people can only recognize female character development if it is nicely packaged with a tough warrior archetype holding a weapon at the end of it.
