The Weekly Discourse

An analytical side blog with mainly text posts! (Main account is @lenatheangell)

[theweeklydiscourse]

Zutara discourse is so funny to me because. ATLA has other hundreds of problems and outdated ideas that are brushed off in canon. From the neolib politics to the shangri-la steryotype with the air nomades and the casual misogyny in katara's arc, but somehow the not canon not real very much a concept ship is what gets people so heated up. Idk man is too mean to say that those people should get a life??

Confronting the actual problems the show has would conflict with the extremely rose-tinted view many fans have of the original show. So, focusing their energy on a non-canon ship (that, by nature, tends to be linked to criticism of the show,) is more comforting and lets them enjoy the nostalgia guilt-free.

These days, people are very defensive of stories that connect them to a happier, more uncritical time, and when you factor in the way that people intertwine their identities with these types of nostalgic media, you get a recipe for vitriol. The politics of ATLA are worthy of critique, and to avoid this uncomfortable truth, people become overly generous in their interpretations of the show’s politics and themes, and treating the white writers as if they were the second coming of Edward Said. I don’t want to stifle textual analysis, but at a certain point, fans need to accept that ATLA has not aged perfectly and that people are allowed to point that out.

There’s also the precedent of misogyny set by Bryke, and the inclination of fans towards uncritically accepting everything the creators say to maintain their idealized vision of their beloved childhood cartoon.

[theweeklydiscourse]

I’ve been seeing a lot of posts about Zutaranti, including one where I felt like you were implying them. I’m kind of out of the loop, what did they do?

It’s an interesting little case study in fandom behaviour. Essentially, that Twitter user has made a name for themselves through a pattern of antagonism towards Zutara shippers, and have gotten embroiled in several controversies as a result. Critical to this matter, is their popularity. They’ve amassed a number of followers who like to orbit around them, and this has led to more than a few instances of them implicitly sending their followers after smaller accounts.

One such incident involved them spurring on hate towards an Iranian Zutara and making fun of them, only to later learn that this shipper was living in an active war zone and was indeed a victim of a violent conflict. They backtracked and apologized, to the ends of: “I didn’t know, I didn’t know…but—“ which satisfied their followers, but confirmed what Zutara shippers already knew: that this anti flippantly and performatively used progressive rhetoric to advance their own amusement, and likely cared little for the substance of the principles they claimed to believe in.

There are other controversies, but the last straw was a very recent incident where they invoked the KKK to create some joking “slander material” tags that were a play on words of Zuko’s name with that group. Recognizing instantly that such jokes were racist and offensive given the KKK’s lasting legacy of violence in America, they were quickly called out by Zutara shippers and their followers alike, which led them to backtrack and apologize for their actions. BUT…once again, they relied on the defence of ignorance, claiming that they didn’t know very much about American politics and weren’t familiar with the mechanics of Tumblr’s tagging system.

Many of their followers condemned them and claimed that they could no longer support them, but I want to ask them: what was it that you were supporting up until this point? They were more than happy to bond through dogpiling and deride Zutara shippers for supposed fascist and colonial apologia, all while actively poking the bear and inviting more conflict through deliberate antagonism.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. One of their own went too far, and now the curtain’s been pulled back to reveal the culture all of them played an active role in creating. OOPS! Uh oh guys, are we the baddies?

[theweeklydiscourse]

If you’re up to date with the ATLA shipping discourse on Twitter, you’ll see what I mean when I say that seriously devoting time to anti-shipping is corrosive to the soul. That sounds really dramatic, but when I see people hoisting themselves up onto the highest horse to tout their progressive politics by way of shipping discourse, it’s all I can think of.

Essentially, a particularly popular Zutara anti account made some extremely distasteful, edgy and racist jokes in service of disparaging the ship, and is now being turned on by their followers who are busy fretting over the optics this incident created for their corner of the fandom. Colour me shocked, lol. I need people to understand that this is not just some one-off incident, but is the natural consequence of the culture this kind of fandom behaviour creates.

Circles that actively encourage bullying and implicitly operate under the “shipping = activism” mentality will always succumb to this phenomenon. Their reasons for attacking other groups become more far-fetched and exaggerated to accommodate their stretching justifications for why doing so is the morally correct thing to do. This leads to edgier jokes, and bolder behaviour until they finally go too far and reveal their hand. Suddenly, their gleeful followers are hit with the realization that continuing to follow such a person is a bad look for them, and they need to distance themselves from the behaviour they once cheered on.

[moonwatermind]

All of this over drawings btw

[theweeklydiscourse]

There’s a few things that make the ATLA fandom the perfect storm of fandom bullshit it currently is. The widespread immaturity and impulsive behaviour we see in shipping wars seems to be pretty typical of shows with younger audience, but it’s also made worse by a substantial number of older fans who are too blinded by nostalgia to accept different perspectives of the show.

This nostalgia ties into the pattern we’ve seen since 2020, where people will unknowingly allow their headcanons to supplant their memories of the actual show, and proceed to get angry at anyone who contradicts their specific take. Overly generous readings of the text, and the insistence that ATLA can do no wrong on a messaging level, leads people to vehemently deny any critiques of the show that engage with its orientalism. This is not even mentioning how feminist critics get raked over the coals for questioning the way certain female characters were handled.

There’s a strong vibe of self-righteousness that’s connected to all of this. IMO, that attitude is exactly what emboldens certain fans to attack other fans at will and justify it by invoking “media literacy” as if they genuinely understand what those words mean and aren’t just throwing them around to bolster their flimsy arguments.

[frogdisco2021]

Okay but ever since I learned that it's a popular fanon trope that Katara restarts Zuko's heart with bloodbending after the Last Agni Kai I can't stop thinking about it cause it would have been so perfect.

Like first of all, in the actual canon it's pretty vague how she manages to heal him and from what exactly (obviously getting struck by lightning but what specific injury was killing him?).

And then secondly, it would be such a perfectly executed, full-circle moment where this form of bending Katara was forced to learn against her will and that she is scared and ashamed of suddenly becomes something she'll be forever grateful for knowing, maybe even feeling some weird form of thankfulness to Hama for having forced her to learn, because without it she would've lost Zuko. It would be a curse that she turned into a gift, a weapon turned into a tool of healing.

It would parallel how Zuko (and Aang) formed a new, more positive relationship with firebending. Both of them saw fire as destruction and hatred, but learned that it is also a source of life and warmth. In the same way, Katara would learn that bloodbending is not just a means to reach into someones body and take control of them, to take away their agency and autonomy, it is also the gift that allowed her to save the life of her best friend after he sacrificed himself for her.

But noooooooooo bloodbending is inherently evil nevermind the pre-established theme of non-duality and separation being an illusion and that no form of bending is inherently good/bad or superior/inferior to any other. Bloodbending eviiiiiil always and there are no good uses for it because we here at Bryke incorporated have the imagination of a jellyfish.

[starlitsecrets]

Remember when joining fandom as a younger person meant lurking for a bit and figuring out the vibe and etiquette instead of coming in on day one and calling people weirdos for liking weirdo shit in the weirdo factory.

[theweeklydiscourse]

My contempt for Helluva Boss grows each day. It might be one of the most indulgent and unsubtle stories I’ve ever seen, but that’s also what makes it so interesting to examine. It’s a distillation of everything that side of fujoshi fandom culture loves, including the good, the bad, and the ugly. You get your wholesome (but freaky) girldad yaoi with two underdeveloped cardboard daughters and a cartoonishly evil wife who can produce infinite angst for the blorbos. On the side, you can enjoy the classic girlboss/malewife dynamic where the girlboss is abandoned by an uninterested narrative while it focuses on the angsty character arc of her male counterpart. Then, you can direct your attention to the tragic and abused uke and marvel at his sharp tumblrsexyman outfit while he monopolizes your attention (and the story too!)

[baldphobickatara]

For every single comment that says that Zutara isn’t canon or that Katara is already in a relationship and that Zutarians should ‘respect’ it, as if it’s an actual real relationship involving real people instead of fictional characters, there will be a Zutara cheating fic and/or art as retribution/compensation I hereby declare it law 👩‍⚖️

[theweeklydiscourse]

By far, one of the worst things come out of the current ATLA fandom is the “Sokka was the real parental figure of the Gaang” revisionism. The amount of people I’ve seen unironically claiming that Sokka was the one keeping the Gaang together, while downplaying Katara’s constant care and emotional labor, is particularly insane to me. Some even went so far as to say Katara was just “bossy” while saying Sokka was the one actually being a pseudo-parent to the group. The misogyny of it all is one thing, but it’s even worse combined with the forced reimagining of Sokka’s character at Katara’s expense.

[le-trash-prince]

coco: let's create a warm comfortable place for the dragon to nap because qifrey-sensei says magic shouldn't be used to hurt people! qifrey: i'm about to blast this bitch to kingdom come

[graphx]

It’s very apparent throughout the story qifrey is a do as i say not as i do kind of person

[theweeklydiscourse]

It’s like shonen anime fans can only conceive of misogynistic writing in two ways: 1) overtly hostile attitudes towards women and 2) over-the-top sexualization. In their world, so long as a story has a female character that isn’t overly sexualized and is shown to be competent in battle, it couldn’t be misogynistic. But they completely ignore how these characters are effectively sidelined from the plot and often denied the same level of character development as their male counterparts. They ignore that, just as they ignore the uneven ratio of relevant female characters to male and claim that all the characters treated equally regardless of gender.

Shonen fans will literally see a series where the female cast gets 1/4 of the development of the male cast, and still try to tell you that you’re wrong for calling that misogynistic. Especially in battle shonen, where your ability to fight correlates with your relevance to the plot and women coincidentally occupy most of the non-combat roles. They’re so laser focused on the obvious stuff, like gratuitous fanservice and sexist comments , that they don’t think about the other ways female characters could be treated unfairly.

[tea-and-la]

sometimes I think about how some kas praise katara doing things like pulling aang out of the avatar state, and somehow see TSR as an equivalent level of support.

When we get this as the first TSR line:

"Um ... and what exactly do you think this will accomplish?" (and people are shocked that katara reacted annoyed? it doesn't exactly inspire one to continue an open conversation)

And then:

"I don't think so. I think it's about getting revenge." (What indication has katara given throughout this show that she would be vengeful? and... to a fatal extent? the same girl who winced when she water whipped the earth kingdom soldiers.)

"It's okay, because I forgive you. [Pauses.] That give you any ideas?" (a weirdly placed attempt at humor)

"You did the right thing. Forgiveness is the first step you have to take to begin healing." (an uncomfortable expectation that katara does not place on him)

Contrasted to Katara's lines in The Avatar State episode:

"Do you remember when we were at the air temple and you found Monk Gyatso's skeleton? It must have been so horrible and traumatic for you. I saw you get so upset that you weren't even you anymore." (immediately validates his feelings, does not mention herself)

" I'm not saying the Avatar State doesn't have incredible and helpful power ... but you have to understand ... for the people who love you, watching you be in that much rage and pain is really scary." (affirms that she loves and cares about him and how difficult it is to see him in that state)

or even in The Desert episode (where aang is understandably angry and triggered):

"We're all concerned, but we can't afford to be fighting now."

"I'm sorry, Aang. I know it's hard for you right now, but ... we need to focus on getting out of here."

"[Encouraging.] Come on, Aang. We can do this if we work together. Right, Toph?"

"Trying to keep everyone together. Let's just get moving. We need to head this direction."

[user5397885]

me when ships I don’t care about are banned from elain week

[quasi-normalcy]

"Well you wouldn't find this fantasy so enthralling if it were REAL and happened to YOU" Okay, yeah, no, but you see it's not real and it's not happening to me.

[quasi-normalcy]

I'd probably find it pretty traumatic if stormtroopers murdered my aunt and uncle, but no one seems to object to Star Wars on those grounds.

[strawberrymilkyumyum]

the thing that gets me the most is that it would've been so easy to write katara liking a/ang back but they didn't. they could've written her to visibly slowly fall in love with a/ang and have moments in the show where its not one sided (like the dance scene in the cave.) they could've done that ALL ALONG and they STILL wrote katara to be unsure/not wanting a relationship until the final episode.

it's honestly just baffling to me bc why would you write it like that? shouldn't you want your main couple to obviously be into each other?

[theweeklydiscourse]

So basically sjm based Feyre's pregnancy on her own experience where she had a messed up c section and it caused her a lot of distress. She also penned Nesta's journey in ACOSF at a time when she was struggling with her own mental health and apparently the infamous hike is.... inspired by her hike with her own husband. Make of that what you will. She still hasn't confirmed whose going to be the next pov coz she knows stoking the shipwar is her only way to ensure a large audience. As for Tamlin well... The cognitive dissonance is truly baffling. She talks about him with more nuance as a character compared to Rhys lol.

Watching her talk has cemented my believe that she's quite literally stupid.

There’s so much to say, but I don’t know where to start.

1. The Feyre Debacle

My longstanding take on Sarah J Maas is that I think she’s the sort of author that doesn’t really think about the implications of what she writes. This lack of awareness and incuriosity is exacerbated by the lacklustre editing in her books. It’s how you get the horrific result of medical misogyny and reproductive abuse that we see in A Court of Silver Flames. She frames this medical misogyny as benevolent, and ultimately done in service of protecting Feyre from something her friends feel will hurt her. It’s a romanticized view of the kind of misogyny that was being criticized in a story like The Yellow Wallpaper.

If Maas had a competent editor, they might’ve advised her that Feyre’s pregnancy storyline might have some problematic messaging regarding informed consent and reproductive freedom. I think Maas was so wrapped up in weaving her experiences into the story that, in creating the drama of that subplot, ended up ignoring the messed up implications of the Inner Circle’s treatment of Feyre.

2. The Hike

What an interesting piece of information. The least she could’ve done in ACOSF would’ve been to make Nesta’s descent into misery and isolation dire enough to warrant the level of intervention it got. Maas’s depiction of poor mental health is hampered by her desire to make everything about her characters pretty and sexy. Like when Nesta wasn’t eating properly and Cassian’s inner monologue zeroed in on her tiny waist. The mental health journey of it all rings hollow when you can sense how little the author cares about depicting mental health struggles in a detailed and meaningful way.

I doubt that the IRL hike that Nesta’s hike was based on wasn’t nearly as abusive, but maybe that’s my own wishful thinking.

3. The Ship Wars

It’s not like I have a horse in this race, but I’m very interested in seeing the outcome. It makes perfect sense that Maas would be stoking the coals of the ship wars to market her new books. Ship wars can be extremely profitable and generate lots of attention and engagement for new stories. I’m already mentally preparing myself for the war flashbacks I’m about to have when this is all over. I fear for what Maas might do to Lucien because he’s one of the few characters I don’t hate.

4. The Characters Maas Likes Torturing Tend to be More Nuanced

Exhibit A: Tamlin and exhibit B: Nesta. This is because Tamlin can be somewhat of an actual character while Rhysand can only represent an ideal. He is unquestionably the “perfect male lead” and therefore cannot have any real flaws that might harm his likeability. Thus, he remains smooth and uninteresting beyond the rage he draws out of me.