#eldrich lily

[liquid-bonhomme]

Lily's confusing "line weight" for "thin lines." Line weight means like, literally just how thick or thin the lines are. They teach you to vary or consider your line weight based on a bunch of different factors when you learn to illustrate professionally. Line weights are just another element of design you can use for utilitarian and stylistic purposes. You can pull attention to something by giving it heavier line weight, you can give something a more dynamic or organic quality by varying line weight, you can give something a delicate or textured quality with very light lineweight, etc. And of course, obviously, some illustrations has no lines.

Here's some good visual examples I just pulled off Google.

[liquid-bonhomme]

@fr00t-snacc owes me money for therapy making such an on point observation.

CURSED.

[liquid-bonhomme]

Lily's Harley Quinn Show video is Garbage (and here's why)

We all know Lily's media hottakes are BAD. But, I feel like critics have mostly focused on her hottakes on media she hates. I've personally become more interested in what media she actually LIKES . . . Because her rational is often times even more nuts.

Well, this video made me mad enough that I'm gunna write a post about it now. Prepare your assholes for the death rattle of this DC fanboy losing his shit:

To be clear, I like this show, for some of the same reasons Lily does even. . . But that's not going to stop me from taking the piss.

(I encourage you all to watch the video in full beforehand so you can get the context of the quotes I'm pulling. Timestamps will be included though.

I just told people to watch your stupid video Lily-- can't cry copyright here.)

-0:19: TWENTY SECONDS IN, STEVEN UNIVERSE IS REFERENCED. GG LILLIAN.

-0:36: BITCHING ABOUT HOW VICTIMIZED SHE IS. 30 SECONDS IN.

-0:55: "I dare say it's the best thing to come out of the Batman franchise in a long time."

It seems like the last thing Lily watched/played/read in "the Batman franchise" was The Dark Knight. You dare boldly, Lily. Ironically I feel like she would at least like the Lego Batman movie, if not all the other good shit that's come out since 2011. Also, this is one of the first of many times she calls the entire fucking DC Universe "The Batman Franchise."

-1:00: "If you're watching this show for at all you're watching it for the romantic arc between Harley and Ivy. Don't lie."

I know this is a joke. I'm not an idiot, but. If you're familiar with Lily's general media consumption, you'll be well aware she watches shit a lot of the time for the ships and the ships ALONE. I feel like this really highlights how she views media in general in a way that's rather revealing. This video is two years old, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lily's opinion has soured a bit given the direction the show goes after this video was released. Put a pin in this comment. 📌

-1:15: "I mean it's a post-joker Harley Quinn show what else are they going to do.

Put a pin in that comment.📌

-2:00: Lily goes on to summarize the plot of the show . . . Completely ignoring all the plot beats that have nothing to do with the romance.

Put a pin in that one too.📌

-3:30: Lily indicates she identifies with Ivy.

Another pin.📌

-4:10: Lily starts talking about how near the end of the second season, Harley has now confessed her feelings to Ivy, but Ivy turns her down because she's going to get married to Kite Man (enjoy the insanity of that sentence if you haven't seen the show.)

Though I don't think she's nessesarily making any real poor points here yet, I want to point out that she really flattens the complexity of the emotions going on here. The problem is that Ivy and Harley's relationship has reached a level of intimacy where they really can't just go back to being friends. Ivy is happily in a relationship with Kite Man at this point, he's been a much more stable and reliable partner to Ivy. Though it's implied her feelings for Harley go a lot deeper. During Joker's confrontation of Harley, Lily frames it as a "go get 'er" pep talk like it's a fucking 80s rom com. He's trying more to get Harley to emotionally resolve things with her-- regardless of outcome. Ivy did say no once already. The audience expects she isn't going to say no a second time since that wouldn't be a narratively satisfying conclusion, but in the real world equivalent, she could have. The Joker wasn't telling Harley to harass Ivy until she gives in.

-5:16: Not really a mark against Lily's video persay, but in a season that aired after Lily made this video the prospect of Harley and Ivy breaking up is explored. Lily must have been seething, lol.

-5:28: "I love a good fluffy romance. I'm so fucking done with people's obsession with the nasty stuff [Flashes Catra and Adora on screen.]"

Honestly this comment has me wondering if Lily decided to check her phone or just skip through scenes where Harley and Ivy weren't being lovey-dovey. I don't know what fucking show she apparently watched (foreshadowing is a narrative tool wh--.)

-5:48: "Poison Ivy has always had the same problem a lot of female characters in DC comics have had in despite being an actual doctor they always just put her in a skin tight leotard [ . . . ] About the only notable exception to that was in The Batman [the 2005 show] where she was a teenager [classical Lily goonery inserted here.]"

Ignoring the goon comment, in isolation I don't have a grievance with this comment persay. As a generalization, it's more or less true about Ivy. She's unfortunately one of the lesser well-used characters in the various DC canons as a whole. However, Lily is going to start implying she's more familiar with DC in general, especially the comics, than she really is. I have strong reason to doubt Lily would know Ivy canonically has a doctorate in botanical sciences if this show didn't call so much attention to it. You'll see why in a moment.

Also the 2005 Batman show is far from the only iteration to reimagine Ivy as a teen. I like that show's take on Ivy too, but that's not a fucking unique spin on the character.

-6:57: "Clayface was always a random D-list monster like Carnage, but here he's reimagined as a struggling actor."

In a show that had the balls to feature Queen of Fables, she's calling Clayface a fucking "d-lister." Nevermind Carnage. But no Lily, Clayface has been a struggling actor since his first appearance in Detective Comics No.40. It's literally the first thing in his bio on his fucking wiki page.

-7:09: "There's one episode where [Clayface] assumes the identity of Stephanie to get into Riddler's college [ . . . ] Seriously I'm convinced he's been moonlighting as Stephanie a lot. The other girls on campus call her 'Steph.' She's been there for a while. This is Clayface's secret identity and you can't convince me otherwise."

LILY THAT'S NOT SUBTEXT THAT'S THE FUCKING JOKE. IT'S TEXT. IT'S CANON. YES. CLAYFACE HAS BEEN FUCKING AROUND ON RIDDLER'S CAMPUS THIS WHOLE TIME. CONFIRMED IN THE SHOW. LILY. LILLLYYYYYY.

Worth pointing out too, she'd totally call Clayface's Stephanie character transphobic if she hated the show.

-9:00: "The writers though 'okay, what do we use to fill our quota of the sad misguided villian this arc-- oh I know fucking BATMAN!'"

Lily what the fuck are you doing when you sit down to watch a show for your channel? Are you playing Candycrush the whole time? Are you screaming at Mikaila that often you miss like . . . Almost everything!? What are you doin' sweaty!?

Lilian, Bruce is not the primary antagonist of the 3rd season . . . IVY IS. Or really, Harley and Ivy's emotional dysfunction is the antagonist of basically this whole series, and it's Ivy's turn to be the main driver of conflict. The person destroying Gotham is Ivy. Not Batman, IVY.

Bruce and Selina's relationship is supposed to be a conceptual foil to Harley and Ivy's. Bruce is having an emotional breakdown the entire series has more or less been building up to.

-9:15: [In reference to Batman getting sent to prison] "I want him to get some nice and comfortable therapy."

. . . Lily is that what you think happens in prison?

-9:35: Lily is talking about the Joker's step-dad arc, and this is as good a time as any to stop for a sec to talk about how Lily doesn't seem to get what The Harley Show is doing with the characters.

The thing that makes the show an exceptionally brilliant take on the DC universe is that virtually all the characters (with some exceptions, that were tweaked for the better mostly) are actually faithful to their comic book/generally established characterization. To an impressive degree, down to even just minor details. You can tell the people who made this show are genuine fans of DC comics. Their personalities and character arcs are exaggerated for comedic effect, with specific interesting angles teased out to draw focus to them. Some elements of their personality are recontextualized to create a more engaging dynamic, but regardless. Even most of the plot elements are at least loose adaptations of storylines from the comic, or other DC media. It's really impressive how the show both works as a functional take on the DC universe by itself, and as a parody of it. Lily demonstrates she's totally oblivious to this multiple times in the video, but her section on the Joker best exemplifies this.

The Joker has taken over and/or become mayor of Gotham multiple times in the comics. Lily thinks for some god forsaken reason in the 70 something years Batman comics have been printed, nobody's thought of that. THEY HAVE. The gag with the second time Joker takes over Gotham IN THIS FUCKING SHOW ALONE is . . . He's actually a really good mayor. Gotham is a perpetual capitalist nightmare shithole of a city. The most insane, radical anarchist thing for The Joker to do is . . . Be a socialist who actually gives a shit about the small folk. That's the joke, Lily. That's the joke. That's the mother fucking JOKE. THE FUNNY HAHA, THERE IT IS LILY. I FUCKING EXPLAINED IT TO YOU.

And Lilian. The Joker being at his most normal and stable while he has a family. Is. A. Direct. Parody. Of. One. Of. The. Most. FAMOUS. BATMAN STORIES. EVER. WRITTEN.

SHE IS LITERALLY FUCKING SHOWING THE EPISODE WHERE THEY DIRECTLY VISUALLY REFERENCE THE KILLING JOKE ON SCREEN. LILY YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE ME A FUCKING HERNIA.

-10:10: Lily calls Sam Raimi a "douchebag."

Fuck right off.

-10:25: "It's a return to wacky hijinks that uses to define The Joker back when he was a gangster in funny makeup."

NO IT ISN'T LILY.

-11:00: Lily bitches about Harley Quinn for the 7 minutes in the remaining runtime.

Okay, the play-by-play is over, I'm going to address this section all at once because it will be quicker and more comprehensive if I do. This is the point where all the aformentioned pins come in.

Though I'm going to have to be ignoring some bullshit Lily says here in order to stay focused, I will mention first, Lily doesn't seem to realize Batfleck and Nolan's Batman were MASSIVE departures from the comics and don't pull much from the storylines. I don't think that's nessesarily a bad thing, even though I'm not the biggest fan of either of those interpretations, but for the record-- no. Those adaptations have almost nothing to do with Year one, The Dark Night Returns, The Killing Joke, or The Long Halloween outside of superficial elements. Lily just googled "famous Batman comics" and picked the four she probably vaguely heard of before. Again, she didn't even recognize the in-your-face impossible to miss Killing Joke parody episode she used as footage for this video. SHE'S JUST PRETENDING SHE'S READ COMICS SHE HASN'T.

Now to the point:

Lily's rational for not liking Harley's portrayal in the Harley Quinn show is honest to god brain damage. I'm not even sure how hard I need to go into explaining this because . . . It's pointing at the text itself and calling it a flaw. Harley's entire journey as a person is TRYING TO DISCOVER WHO SHE IS outside of the toxic codependency she had with the Joker. Her arc is both a meta commentary on the nature of the character conceptually and her journey to redefine herself. THIS ISN'T FUCKING SUBTLE. THIS IS STATED IN THE SHOW. Harley's identity crisis over whether or not she's even a villan anymore STARTS IN SEASON 3. Harley's lack of inhibition is what DRIVES THE PLOT IN SEASON 2. Harley's struggles to emancipat herself IS THE PLOT OF THE FIRST FUCKING EPISODE. This is also honestly the ONLY DC property I can think of that actually bothers to do something with the fact that Harley is a psychologist. Almost on that basis alone, it's one of the most refreshing takes on the character. That actually means something when I say it, because I've actually read a fucking comic in my life. LILY WHAT FUCKING DIMENSION DO YOU SLIP INTO ANY TIME YOU SIT DOWN TO WATCH A SHOW.

That question is rhetorical-- Lily tells on herself several times throughout this video. Remember those pins? Go read em again. Lily identifies with Ivy, so Lily decided Ivy is the "real" main character-- and wants Harley to be Ivy's loving kissy huggy gf. She genuinely thinks the show is actively making a mistake anytime her smut ship fanfic is interrupted. Lily wants porn. LILY YEARNS FOR THE PORN, ALWAYS. Every single fucking time.

She's decided Ivy has done nothing wrong to create tension in the relationship. She has deemed the character flaws Harley has that creates tension in the relationship a mistake in the writing.

Because Lily has not actually read a comic, but probably has seen Batman: The Animated Series-- she's missed all of the other references and spoofs in the show except for the ones involving Harley. That was the show she was originally created in.

Case-fucking-closed. Water is wet, the sky is blue, and Lily Orchard is talking out of her ass.

Kill my parents and call me the world's greatest detective, I guess.

[liquid-bonhomme]

TW: Discussion of rape accusations.

[For the love of God read this all the way through.]

I'm going to speak to you guys from the perspective of someone who has been sexually assaulted. Who did not accept that's what happened to me until roughly a year after it happened. Who made excuses and downplayed what me abuser did to me. Who likely wouldn't have gone to the police about the incident even if I had the motivation to do so directly after it happened-- by just, not being able to handle the way I know they would have treated me. Someone who was a profoundly imperfect victim, who accidentally basically did EVERYTHING wrong to make myself look as untrustworthy as possible to anyone who didn't know me or visibly witness the full context of everything that happened, and thought for two seconds more about the series of events that took placd. An element of our relationship, my abuser actively weaponized against me among our peers. I am a person with first-hamd experience of the optics not being on my side. Of someone who DID have evidence of at least SOMETHING not okay doing down between us at least, though no definitive proof of the details-- that I was terrified to actually show anyone, because as guilty as it made my abuser look, it also made me look as pathetic and small and as easily manipulated as I felt.

Of being someone not actually entirely certain if I was full on raped or not until YEARS later-- only because my abuser kinda sorta half admitted to it? Not that they said, "oh I raped [Liquid] and it was high-key a bop." But that they admitted sex occurred between us, which they characterized as consensual-- while I know it wasn't. Because I was all the way black out drunk and woke up in media res.

That it MIGHT have even happened more than once-- but that they consistently only did so when I was too high or drunk to really know, and I have absolutely nothing for any other time something might have went down. So. I just have to eat that L. Booboo I'm the fool.

I know EXACTLY what that kind of soul obliterating experience that is. I even know what having this experience litigated in the court of public opinion is like-- though not online, which is probably ten times worse. Don't fucking come at me with any sort of, "oh police bad, justice system broken, victims should come out, scream out until they wake heaven itself with their plight, you're not being empathetic, you're not supporting the girlies."

Yes I am. What I am about to say is more empathetic and helpful to victims then you uncritically cropdusting the entire internet with allegations with your key citation being a fucking vibe check.

The reality is, any kind of recourse against a perpetrator is going to be profoundly taxing on the victim. All options kind of fucking suck. That is as horrible as it sounds, but that doesn't change that it's just fucking true.

Which means, what recourse is taken HAS TO BE a cost-benifit analysis.

What's the fucking goal? What is the best and worst outcome for any action taken to attempt to help the victim? What is the potential harm or benifit if information is withheld from the public if the alleged perpetrator is a public figure until things can be thoroughly teased out? What is absolutely nessesary to keep this victim safe, and stop any future harm for other potential victims?

All victims should be taken seriously. All victims should be heard out. All victims have the right to seek out support. That support could include but is not limited to: providing emotional support, getting them in contact for resources to get professional help, contacting the police, contacting an organization designed to help victims, and/or making the public aware of the allegations. In the order of escalation that makes the most sense.

I can tell you with absolute fucking certainty making a fucking tone deaf meme nightmare hell nuclear holocaust of a callout video that tosses in a "trust me bro" rape allegation an already mostly complete tea-sesh, and then telling the alleged victim to "go 2 da popo okie uwu? key bayyyyyyyyyy." Is the fucking opposite of supporting a victim. At BEST you are setting a victim up to get dicked over on two fronts, and at WORST, you're causing a witchhunt. You are adding to the fire of actual victims who aren't blessed with a sexual assault story that "plays well" to public perception. ESPECIALLY, if you have a very public petty vendetta against the accused. I am utterly gobsmacked, the degree of selfishness required to not realize how that fucking looks-- even if you believe the allegations are true.

I typically hold my tongue now in instances of of rape and sexual assault allegations until the dust has thoroughly settled. As a sexual assault survivor myself, I have a hard time uncoupling my own feelings and experiences from instances of this happening-- and it's just better for me to recuse myself from adding to the chorus until I have all possible available information-- and even then.

And if I'm being totally honest, I found out first about this video first as KP stealing an asset from me in the pettiest way she possibly could have, and it was something of a slow car-crash what the video was actually about.

Blessing in disguise she went out of her way not to credit me, it turns out. So no one could really realistically make the mistake I was involved or associated with this video. But, to be honest, it does sting a little. Even an inconsequential, stupid little asset being nabbed and used like that-- it doesn't feel good. I try to engage with this sort of thing on my own terms-- and that option was taken away from me because of KP's bullshit.

It's not really about me. But I would have probably waited to say something if I knew what the subject matter of the video was initially. Or maybe not, I'm not sure.

I'm not going to know now, the choice was taken from me. I wasn't expecting my stupid fucking Lily puppet LIKE THAT, you know?

I'm going to ask that this post not be taken as me making any sort of definitive judgement on the Saberspark allegations. I might say something when it seems all the information is out, I might not. If I feel like I have something of value to add I will, but I'm not Judge Liquid over here-- ultimate decider of guilt.

This post is directed at ILoveKimPossibleALot, Courtney Peet, Brony Fandont and anyone else I think deserved to take some of the blame for this clusterfuck.

I'll. . . Say this:

I have been for some amount of time been made privy of semi-private information that, though definitely proves nothing, implies some involved parties are, for SOME REASON, not willing to fully stand behind the legitimacy of the allegations when backed into a corner. I don't know if any of these parties have more information than has been made public, but it kind of seems like they MIGHT.

And that I have seen some red flags, that, in my VERY SUBJECTIVE interpretation of events, suggest that potentially KP in tentionally or otherwise, took advantage of a person very vulnerable to suggestion to massage a more substantial accusation out of a half-truth. That does happen. Especially with an alleged victim that is mentally ill, they can be pressured into exaggerating an event that emotionally affected them by creating a narrative that matches the intensity of their feelings.

That is ->NOT<- cause to doubt victims with mental illnesses. But that DOES mean victims need to be handled with care. That DOES mean it is natural human behavior to say what they have to socially protect ourselves. And if you, say, had an awkward personal interaction with an internet personality you developed a strong parasocial infatuation with as a child you never really properly processed. And, years later, when the memory was good and deep fried in your head, you were, say, directed to a youtuber who had all the ulterior motive in the world to press you into making it worth her while to give you the time of day. . .

Well.

[liquid-bonhomme]

Okay, part two. Let's go girls, gays and theys, Papa Polarity ain't saved yet.

[Part 1] [Part3]

Lily Commits Elder Gay Mutant Abuse, feat. "Eldritch Lily" (Part 2)

Everything gets worse . . .

4:13: Lily mischaracterizes Charles Xavier, throws up a Martin Luthor King quote she either doesn't understand or didn't read carefully enough, going full whyte. (Never go full whyte.)

How much do I need to dignify this by explaining why this is fucking asinine? Charles is a pacifist for the most part. A recognized and respected form of activism and protest. Like, the least charitable interpretation of what Lily's trying to say here is that figures like Gahndi, Abbie Hoffman, and dear old MLK himself are posers complicit in the oppression two of them lost their fucking life to.

That quote is referring to white people passively complicit in racism that just want black people to shut the fuck up Lily-- not passive forms of activism.

You know, it's one thing to be profoundly fucking wrong about cartoons, it's an entirely different beast when you're profoundly wrong about shit like this. Absolutely fucking ghoulish.

It feels weird pivoting back to the costumed vigilantes with funky genes, but we gotta keep going. Ironically for how much Lily is focusing on the movies here-- one of my issues with the way Charles is portrayed is he keeps casually threatening people/doing shady shit and getting away with it. Makes you question why it's framed as okay when he does it and not when it's Erik. Charles isn't a saint, he shouldn't be portrayed as one, and there's a lot of thematic dissonance when the films feel the need to lampshade the shit he gets up to less he lose the moral high ground.

4:50: OH HERE WE GO.

5:00: Lily goes on a long rant about the "activists who GO TOO FAR" trope in media.

I technically agree with her, but I can tell by the examples she's giving that she's parroting things Hbomberguy said in his RWBY video, just in a less charitable tone. So, really I agree with Hbomberguy.

She's not wrong that the BoM and Magneto sometimes wanders into this territory (I mean, they were originally 'The Brotherhood of Evil Mutant' and all that) unfortunately, but she hasn't supported that position at all. I have to assume she's heard this brought up somewhere else, this isn't exactly a unique take by any means. I doubt she's actually familiar enough with the content to create an original cohesive argument.

Lily doesn't like moral ambiguity in her media. That would be fine if she wasn't this butthurt that other people feel very differently.

6:05: "And yes, you knew we were getting to it! [ . . .] Almost all of Legend of Korras main villians start at a good through line. But then some twist comes up that makes everything they said before completely pointless."

THESE TWO, "START AT A GOOD THROUGH LINE!?"

LILLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

6:15: "Season one's Amon is a socialist activist who cares about the oppression of non-benders by benders-- until it turns out that he doesn't."

I know this is a popular interpretation of the equalitists, especially given that their name is 'the equalists,' but actually the show never gives us enough information about the sociopolitical dynamics of benders and non-benders to say for sure. I'm not going to get into it here, if you want my full breakdown and analysis on the social politics of Avatar, let me know. In summary, it's tempting to assume benders would be the dominant class as they have literal powers, but that's not really how systemic power works. There's conflicting inference on what the dynamics are, and it may be different depending on the nation. The equalists are schrodinger's activists. They could be the Black Panthers, they could be the Proud Boys. That is not me making a false equivalency between those two groups, it's just never established if their perceived systemic persecution is real or imagined.

This isn't really a criticism of Lily. That it is so ambiguous is a flaw in the show. The interpretation Amon is supposed to be a socialist is as valid as any. Well. . . It's an extremely reductive interpretation of a socialist, and I know Lily doesn't know what a socialist actually is, but I'm trying to be charitable when possible here.

I do LIKE Korra myself, to be clear. But, yeah. There's problems.

6:31: "Season four's Kuvira wants to stitch the Earth Kingdom back together but doesn't want to restore an oppressive monarchy like everyone else does. And then declares that she is the dictator of the Earth Kingdom."

Yeah, that is just a thing that has happened in history, Lily. When there's a power vacuum left by a sudden or violent upheaval of a tyrant, unfortunately often another tyrant at least attempts to take their place. This is one of the reasons why former colonies struggle to cultivate stability-- societies and communities can get fucked in the ass by this kind of shit. This isn't a pro-monarchy message Lily-- consider maybe trying to learn things now and again.

This is why people call you a fake leftist Lily. Doing (relatively) minor gestures of good will like handing out food for a short period then pulling the rug out from under the people once they're complicit is right out of the facist playbook. You are virtually doing the exact thing you accused Rebecca Sugar of, but for real.

You're being outfoxed by a kid's show again.

6:44: "Season two's Unalaq [you get the idea.]"

Lily is pro gentrification until you involve demon kites I guess. I'm confused why she thinks he ever had any good intentions, it's telegraphed immediately he's a bad dude. He's also by far the worst villain-- as in, the worst written.

7:10: "All of them go 'the status quo is bad therefore commence genocide' like they got their political theory from fucking Vaush."

By your line of thinking so did Firelord Sozin:

"I had my own vision for a brighter future . . ."

I don't like Vaush either, but-- this isn't even the pot calling the kettle black. This is the blackened grime on the pot calling the kettle black.

GOD THIS VIDEO IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT MAGNETO. WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT KORRA FOR ALMOST THIS WHOLE POST.

7:19: "The entire show you're watching Korra become a stooge for the status quo every single time. 'The problem isn't that the system is bad, it's that the wrong people are in charge.' And then they inevitably change the status like bringing democracy to the Earth Kingdom and you're left wondering-- wait, why wasn't the other person doing this!?"

I did not edit those two statements together. That is, in fact, Lily pointing out why her own arguments are stupid in the very next breath. Thanks for saving me the effort, I guess.

7:45: "Why weren't the characters you set up to do these things . . . Doing the things?!"

Because they weren't set up to do these things Lily. They're the antagonists. They ideologically were designed to be foils for Korra to overcome.

Korra's political messages aren't even that deep, and yet you're this incapable from telling even obvious totalitarian right-wing ideology and mild liberalism apart.

8:10: "It's so nakedly obvious how protective of the status quo these stories are."

This is, in a very abstract way, a valid criticism of Korra. This is a common problem in a lot of media, and Korra is far from the worst offender. I think it does breach past this to some extent, just not as much as I would have personally liked with all its seasons.

But make no mistake this is Lily again, taking something Lily has seen someone else say and putting that opinion through a blender.

Let's not beat around the bush here, Lily just wanted to bitch about Korra again. It's almost like she thinks if she repeats her idiotic media analysis enough, maybe THIS time people will realize how brilliant she is.

8:27: "A victim of abuse, torture or r@pe trying to kill her [only 'her,' huh?] abuser in vengeance is right to do so."

Okay, that's enough of this for now. Part 3 coming soon.

[liquid-bonhomme]

Actual real photo of Lily currently at this moment I swear I am in her walls.

[liquid-bonhomme]

What's that thing about LO and butch lesbians??? Has she said something about them? (Makes sense ngl)

Okay, I've gotten three asks about this, so I'm just going to answer one and the other two. Just know I'm replying to you too.

Lily hasn't said anything directly about butch lesbians. She wouldn't dare. Her gaggle of 12 year olds wouldn't even be able to tolerate that. But Lily has expressed a strong dislike for GNC people in every way she can while maintaining a veil of progressivism. Especially GNC AFABs, which is kind of a double wammy for her. This is pretty well documented at this point.

I know she was extremely cruel to a specific individual about their gender presentation, but if they haven't shared that story publicly then it's not my place to here.

[liquid-bonhomme]

Think you can take a look on this video on villains like Magneto? To say she misses the point is an understatement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YouOhoCDVkw&pp=ygUUbGlseSBvcmNoYXJkIG1hZ25ldG8%3D

Oh fuck I saw the thumbnail of this video manifest a few times and I avoided watching it because I knew it was going to make me mad.

I'm going to do this one as a "real time reaction." Unlike the Harley video, I'm going in blind. Might edit a bit after I'm done writing it all out, but.

Lily Commits Elder Gay Mutant Abuse, feat. "Eldritch Lily" (Part 1)

[Part 2] [Part 3]

Get ready DILF fuckers. We 'bout to go to war for our beloved magnet man.

-0:30: Lily rambles about dumb bullshit to do with tropes, and fandom, and inventing problems. . . Oh my god, why.

So like, right at the beginning here she's just . . . Making noise? Waisting oxygen? I THINK what she's trying to say is people like tropes . . . And that's illegal if it isn't the tropes she likes . . . I don't . . . Lily.

She's using way too many words to say, in essence, I presume, Magneto is dumb, "fanboys" just like him because they like "sympathetic villians." But her rational here is a degree of reductive it makes it almost impossible to respond to. Lily is arguing against a theoretical hivemind of a strawman from another dimension - totally divorced from the one the rest of us live in.

I may hazard a guess that I, conceptually, as someone who both likes sympathetic antagonists and likes Magneto, am from Lily's point of view a part of this "fandom" hivemind she's hallucinating.

I don't know what to say to that other than, no Lily. No. That's not why I like Magneto. I am much more likely to enjoy sympathetic antagonists, as that is my personal taste. I am less likely to enjoy mustache twirling cartoon villans, for as it were, that is not my personal taste. But that is not the beginning and the end of my preferences. Bby grill, I don't know what to tell yah.

Also, a "sympathetic villian/antagonist" isn't really so much a trope as it is a description. I understand why like, TV tropes and for other cataloging purposes the definition of "trope" gets stretched a bit-- however. It's like calling "first person limited" a trope.

-1:21: Lily's "favorite villains,"

I try not to roast Lily on her just strictly expressing her personal taste (when she's not trying to argue her personal taste is superior), but considering the topic of the video-- I gotta laugh. Lily's examples for villains she likes is that one fucker from Kingdom Hearts who's only notable trait compared to the rest of the antagonists is him not being an evil twink (or Pete, or Maleficent) and the Lich King.

I have played at least most of the Kingdom Hearts games. I played WoW when Wrath came out. I played the Warcraft games where he was originally introduced as Arthas.

I guess I can see in a very superficial way why Lily identifies with Fabio Night's King maybe . . . Hot Topic Heidelberg though, I'm at a loss. I can't even remember his name, and I don't care to look it up.

-1:30: "Sympathetic villains are a double edged sword [ . . . ] you can only make them so sympathetic before their status as a villain starts to be questioned."

Might as well bring this up now-- Lily is currently engaging with one of my all-time pet peeves with media discussion: calling all antagonists "villains."

I try to be careful as to when I correct people on this. I don't like nitpicking the language people use. If their meaning is getting across just fine, what ever. I don't want to make them feel stupid for confusing to very similar concepts. Sometimes, my brain shits out too, and I use a suitable substitute even if it's not exactly the right word for the thing I'm trying to refer to. Everyone does it sometimes.

However, villains and anotagonists aren't the same thing. The exact definition as to what makes a character a true "villain" is very subjective-- more often than not vibes based. Where as an antagonist is very concretely the protagonist's foil and/or a source of external conflict. A villain is more defined by the framing, an antagonist is identified by their utility in a narrative. You can have protagonists who are arguably villains and antagonists who are arguably heroes as well. Stories where there isn't enough moral framing and judgment either way, so the protagonist and the antagonist can't really be described as heros or villains. Before we get into discussing whether or not Magneto is truly a "villain" or not, I have to point out Lily's confusing those two concepts. I'm going to surmise the majority of her arguments in this video could have been dismissed if she understood the difference.

So, yes, if you make a villain too sympathetic, they're no longer a villain . . . They're just the antagonist.

I also need to preface all this by saying that Magneto is a particularly complicated case in this regard. He's been around as the "Malcom X" analog in the very messy civil rights allegory of the mutants since the 1960s. He has, in a lot of ways, mirrored the very challenging feelings people have had towards more aggressive and violent forms of activism.

I don't think iterations of Magneto where the narrative condemns his methods outright are wholly invalid-- though I have personally soured towards them. That doesn't align with my perception of what Magento represents. And on a narrative perspective, I think it's always more interesting when the moral question as to whether the X-Men/Charles's position is correct or the BoM/Erik's position is correct is left as ambiguous as possible for the audience to decide for themselves. I think both forms of activism Charles and Erik represent are equally flawed as they are important. Fighting for civil rights is a thing of chaos historically, and there's no real clear "right answer" in most circumstances. A lot of messy incoherence of effort and resistance that slowly over time collectively move the dial-- often in a round-about way.

It also doesn't help that most non-comic reader's perceptions of Magneto are so heavily colored by the movies. As much as the ever effervescent Sir Ian Mekellen elevates that version of the character with his outstanding performance. . . That Magneto is a much messier bitch than his comic counterpart. Much less calculated and considerate in his violence. Same thing overall by the Michael Fassbender version, though he's characterized a little better.

I feel it's pretty safe to assume Lily's going to be arguing mostly against her vague memory of Fox movies while confidently being wrong about the comic version being the same.

Oh my god we're fucking 2 minutes in.

1:52: "It's a very dated metaphor for racism in the 60s, and the film are a very dated metaphor for LGBT youth in the 2000s."

Sorry, we're nitpicking Lily's word choices again. She's getting allegory and metaphor confused. The X-Men are intended as an allegory-- traditionally. Not always, but traditionally.

And as a blanket statement I'm sort of in agreement with her . . . But also not really. Again, the X-Men have been around for so long there's a diverse range in the ways the civil rights analog has been handled. I think typically the mutants are at their best when they are being treated more as a metaphor than an allegory, and for no real specific civil rights issue. Something more organic to the Marvel universe itself the audience can take away from as a meditation in a none-direct one-to-one.

My favorite X-Men Rogue is a character I deeply identify with on multiple layers personally as a queer person, a survivor of abuse, someone who's had struggles with both platonic and romantic intimacy. There's a lot of ways someone could connect with her that aren't direct translations of who she is in canon.

Also, the 2000s Fox movies was not the first time the X-Men were interpreted as a queer allegory instead of a racial one. I can't tell you when the first time was, if there is an official "first time" as POC and LGBTQ+ rights issues have overlapped quite a few times-- but the Legacy Virus was quite literally mutant AIDS. Unambiguously.

I'll sort of agree with Lily, just a little, as a treat here-- a fair bit of X-Men shit is real dated.

-2:32: "Now while Magneto was around since the 60s, this wasn't an established part of his character until about 1980s. 10 years after the man who created him Jack Kurby left Marvel."

UM, ACTUALLY.

Magneto wasn't always a holocaust survivor-- that is true. Quickly googling it, that element of Magneto's backstory was first established in Uncanny X-Men in 1981. Some part of me feels like it was at least hinted at earlier, but let's just call that about right. It doesn't really matter.

This quote from Jack Kurby is so ubiquitous I knew I could find it just by going to Magneto's Wikipedia page:

"I saw my villains not as villains. I knew villains had to come from somewhere and they came from people. My villains were people that developed problems." -- Jack Kurby, Jack Kurby Collector #22

Not a surprise but, this tells me Lily is not familiar with Kurby's work as a whole.

And guess what, this wasn't the quote I was looking for, but it was right underneath, and the source checks out:

"[Stan Lee] did not think of Magneto as a bad guy. He just wanted to strike back at the people who were so bigoted and racist...he was trying to defend the mutants, and because society was not treating them fairly he was going to teach society a lesson. He was a danger of course...but I never thought of him as a villain." --Marvel Spotlight: Uncanny X-Men 500 Issues Celebration, pp. 5-7

You're now arguing against BOTH Magneto's daddies, Lillian.

3:16: " 'You're just one bad day away from being me' - Erik Killmonger, probably"

Oh haha yes Lily so funny you put the Punisher line but said it was Killmonger, that's so funny--

EXCEPT THAT QUOTE IS A REFERENCE TO THE JOKER'S FAMOUS MONOLOG IN THE KILLING JOKE. LILY NOT AGAIN WITH THIS, OH MY GOD, YOU'RE GOING TO ACTUALLY KILL ME. JUST ADMIT YOU HAVE NOT READ A FUCKING COMIC EVER.

3:28: "Where even though Magneto has long since stopped being a Villian in the comics. . ."

According to Lily's definition of "villain," that is not true. As in, he's still mostly used as an antagonist. And he was arguably never really a villain, he's just become less villianized, evolving with our cultural perception of activism-- but I'll give Lily this one.

3:30: " . . . in film adaptations, he's still a holocaust survivor, and still the bad guy for no reason."

LILY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING COMICS OR THE MOVIES!? I take issue with how Erik is characterized in the movies too, especially in the Bryan Singer (fuck him btw, he's a predator, look it up) movies. BUT YOU'RE ALL OVER THE PLACE HERE LILY, GOD DAMN. Is Magneto as a concept bad, or do you not like the FoX-men movies, which is it!?

3:49: [The prelude to the Kevin Bacon coin murder from First Class.]

Lily, people criticized the choice to make Charles argue with Erik here and how it's framed when this movie came out. Who are you arguing with?

With the themes of the movie they tried to play the angle of Charles' more privileged life giving him the luxury of the pacifist position that Erik does not have. I really like this in concept, this has been explored before in other X-Men media, but they fumbled the bag here with the framing. There's some issues with the cinematic language used. I don't blame people for getting the impression you're supposed to wholly side with ol' Chuck here, even if the text implies otherwise. I agree with her that this is a problem with mainstream films overall havin' a hard time kicking bad habits from the Hays Code.

But that's not really the argument She's making. I don't know if Lily knows what argument she's making.

God forgive me I am at the four minute mark and this post is already this long. Okay, I'm gunna have to split this up into 2 or 3 posts. I'll add the various links to each part as I finish them to each post. Lily gishgallops this fucking badly. . . Stay tuned for part 2.