#fish tb

[y0rkminster]

I honestly believe myco is now a treatable disease. There’s a trial underway for sulfa for Grade 3M and while it’s still early days, there’s very promising results.

[checkinder]

Help..?

I’ve had a suspicion for a long ass time now but

The mollies in my 30 gallon are showing the crooked back that killed off my platies. I knew platies had bad genetics but I feel like my mind used that as the excuse for ignoring that it could be fish tb. Right now two of them show the signs, one is really bad off while the other is still struggling along. 

The mollies in the tank recently had babies and I want to cry knowing I probably just condemned them to death by being so damn ignorant.

I just did a water change recently and added some meds to the water in case it was..something treatable but no signs of improvement.

I’ve not encountered any other illness in my searches that would cause a mollies back to go crooked but..

Do I have any hopes here or am I just probably fucked..? I can get the parameters if needed.

[bettalucknexttime]

i know fish TB is extremely rare but Morris is exhibiting a lot of symptoms and i’m going to put him down. he became extremely emaciated and his spine was curving and he had lesions on his skin. his quality of life was quickly, quickly declining from just a few days ago. fish tb can lie dormant for up to 6 months without exhibiting symptoms. but i’m worried about my own health now since fish tb can be transferred to humans. him and orion were in a divided tank for a month so now i’m wondering if orion is going to need to be put down soon too. i start the siphon with my mouth and i have a skin condition and that’s how the disease can be transferred. i’m sorry Morris. you really didn’t deserve to go out this way. swim in peace, buddy.

[y0rkminster]

Hope for fish TB!

After Aeneas died, I decided the best way to honor his memory would be to use the knowledge I gained, too late for him, to save another fish with myco (fish TB).

Evander here had it bad. I didn’t think he’d make it but he’s thriving.

First, a word of caution: some strains of fish TB can be transmitted to humans. You cannot get TB from a fish, but you can get what’s known as a fish tank granuloma. I strongly recommend glove use. That being said, my immune system is currently in the toilet and I didn’t get sick. But you are risking transmission, and should know this going in.

Here’s what I did, and the rationale:

UV Sterilizer: it worked for Diana Walstad, a fantastic biologist. She wrote a great paper on the topic.

Clarithromycin: used in human mycobacterial infections.

Erythromycin: likely co-infection due to filthy conditions at this especially bad pet store. Evander here is also a dragonscale, which means he’s prone to diamond eye. Diamond eye is thought to be triggered by infection. In humans, erythromycin is used often to protect the eyes. This is, admittedly, weak rationale. But I’m including it because it was a turning point for this little guy. Treating co infections will help their immune systems join the fight.

PolyGuard: very broad spectrum to nab any other secondary infection.

Best wishes to everyone who’s battling this awful disease. There is hope if it’s caught early enough.

[bettalucknexttime]

Fish Tuberculosis (fish tb)

i’ve been posting about fish TB the last few days because i suspect two of my fish had gotten it. I’m going to try to make a coherent post for anyone else who may need information about it because i had searched all over and there’s not very much about it and the things i learned were from several different sources. i’ll cite everything at the end but please remember that i am by no means a professional and some of the stuff i include could be incorrect! it’s always smart to do your own research as well. (i’m not going to include pictures bc GROSS and i’m not going to include a lot of the science-y stuff bc i barely understand it and have 6 brain cells)

To begin, fish tuberculosis is a bacterium closely related to Mycobacterium tuberculosis (human TB) called Mycobacterium marinum. It is commonly referred to as fish tb, but it isn’t actually tuberculosis at all! Which is good news since this is a zoonotic disease, meaning it can be transferred from an animal to a human. In humans, fish tb would present itself as a skin infection. It can be passed onto a human who has an open cut or scrape on their hand and then puts their hand inside the infected fish’s water. It is also more likely to infect someone with a compromised immune system. It is very, very rare for a human to catch this as the bacteria cannot survive at temperatures above 98.6 degrees fahrenheit (or 37 degrees celsius) and that’s why it stays in the colder extremities like the hands and feet. While it is very rare, it’s still possible so if you believe you’ve come in contact with it, it is best to go the the doctors and get tested.

Symptoms of this in fish are:

- Wasting away. your fish becomes emaciated looking in just days. this is why fish tb is sometimes referred to as ‘wasting away disease’

- lesions on the body

- scale loss

- lethargy

- curved spine

- some fish develop popeye

Symptoms of this in humans are:

- lesions on the skin. it begins as small purple or red bumps on the skin, usually more prominent on your dominant hand and can go up to your elbows. normally it doesn’t pass that point.

- Usually these bumps can become painful and irritated.

- in more severe cases, it can spread to the soft tissue and cause arthritis.

- in absolutely worst case scenarios, it can get so bad where amputation is necessary.

What makes this disease especially scary is it can be present in a fish OR human and not show any symptoms for months. You could believe you have a perfectly healthy fish and then a month later, you find your fish on the brink of death. While there are treatments for this disease in fish, they are very harsh and almost never work. Many people suggest putting down your fish when the signs of it finally show because there’s no reason to allow your fish to suffer. As for treatments in humans, all you need is some antibiotics to treat and combat it. so far, the disease is not known to be resistant to any antibiotics! most people who get infected are on antibiotics for about 2 months. it’s important to note that it is not deadly to humans!

Luckily, this bacteria is not capable of human to human transfer. meaning, no need to worry about infecting anyone else. But fish are able to spread it to one another through a few ways:

- A fish eats an infected fish OR an infected fish’s dead body.

- A fish eats the infected fish’s waste.

- A fish is living with an infected fish and has an open wound.

it’s very easy to get panicky over a situation like this. your fish is dead and now you think you’re infected. but the likelihood of you catching this is very, very low. in the usa, the rate (for all cases, not just aquaria) is around 0.27 infections per 100,000 population. it is important to just be aware of this disease and use it as a reason to be especially careful when handling your tank.

luckily, there are ways to avoid something like this from happening!

- never, ever put your hands in the tank without protective gear if you have any sort of cut or open wound! gloves are a great way to keep your hands nice and safe. i picked up disposable ones and a nice pair of reusable, heavy duty ones that go up to my elbows.

- always wash your hands after messing around with your tanks! this includes washing your hands (and gloves) in between tanks if you have multiple ones.

- (this one seems like common sense but) keep your things aquarium specific! if you use a bucket for your water changes, make sure it’s only used and only ever been used for this specific purpose.

so if you believe your fish got infected with TB, the best course of action is to euthanize the fish, throw the fish’s entire tank setup away and get yourself tested. it is possible to clean your tank after a tb outbreak, but this disease is VERY resistant to cleaners. most people would use bleach because it’s aquarium safe and seemingly kills everything, but people have reported the disease coming back once they’ve put new fish in. personally, i am just going to throw everything away (tank, decor, gravel, filter, heater, all of it!) and even go so far as smashing my tank so someone else can’t use it (and disposing it in a trash bag triple bagged.) it is also important to properly dispose of your fish’s body. it’s never good to flush a fish but especially not good in this situation. the best way is to soak your fish’s corpse in bleach after they have been euthanized and throw them away. i know it seems cruel, but it’s the best way to keep yourself and others safe. i let my fish sit in a cup of bleach for an hour then wrapped his body (being careful NOT to touch him!!!) in paper towels and put that inside a ziploc bag. i even splashed some bleach into the bag just to be extra sure. also, be sure to NEVER dump infected water outside. pour it down the drain and then bleach your sink or bath. it isn’t possible to become infected by sitting in a bath that had infected water poured down it, but it’s best to be safe! also, you can just clean your cleaning equipment well and still use it after but personally, i just felt better repurchasing my gravel vacuum, buckets and nets.

as always, please let me know if any of this information is incorrect in anyway. the very last thing i want to do is misinform people!

sources: (warning! there are a few graphic pictures of wounds on a person in the 3rd source. view at your own discretion)

https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/blog/articles/should-you-be-worried-about-fish-tb

https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Mycobacteriosis_(Fish_Tuberculosis)

http://mobile.dudasite.com/site/fishtanksandponds?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fishtanksandponds.co.uk%2Ffish-health%2Fmycobacterium-marinum.html&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F#2908

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/disease/tbc.php

[mycofish]

Some culture confirmed (all M Marinum, some had other strains mostly M Chelonae and M Kansasii) myco+ recoveries! The one with dropsy-Maris-had it as a result of a secondary infection. Myco severely dampens immunity.

[bettalucknexttime]

i bought heavy duty reusable gloves to wear while maintaining my tanks from now on. i also got a bunch of disposable gloves to wear while tearing my two infected tanks down. i had gotten the tank Morris and Orion stayed in from Goodwill and even though i cleaned it very very well, it could have had TB infected fish in it prior. that’s the risk with used tanks i suppose! but i am currently on antibiotics for a minor surgery i had and i will be getting tested for TB next week. this has been a shitty situation but i’m not as panicky anymore. also good that i got a bunch of petco giftcards for Christmas so i can easily replace my gravel vacuum and other cleaning equipment

[bettasandcoriesandplecosohmy]

Help

Regarding my last post (video of spinning rasbora, it's my last post so you don't need to dig to see it), I looked up some causes and one mentioned fish TB.

I have the little guy in a critter keeper wrapped in a towel (qt tank might be too big since he can't swim, figured a critter keeper might be easier on him). He has no other symptoms of TB except the spine crook and spinning. Is it still possible that it's TB? Or is it perhaps swimbladder mixed with scoliosis that's made him spinny?

I really need some opinions. I didn't expect him to survive the night but he did, and his colors are still vibrant and his eyes are clear. He's just... Crooked and spinny.

If it is TB, how do I treat my community tank so the other fish don't fall ill? They all look fine right now but I know TB can kill an entire tank. I have a pleco and two shoals of cory cats so the meds would have to be safe for catfish. Just.. Ugh.