Part 1 of the “Brave” Connection in Season 2: The Lannister Lion Necklace
As if I need more convincing for Sansa’s kidnapping plot, I found more foreshadowing when I was re-watching several scenes in Season 2. I divided this post into two parts to deal with two different instances of foreshadowing.
Predictions that comes from this first part is the kidnapping of Sansa by Cersei based on the parallel between different characters linked by the Lannister lion necklace. Furthermore since I predict that Sansa is going to be pregnant when taken by Cersei, some scenes I discuss here can be interpreted as a clue that the child would probably be a bastard. The last prediction I discussed here supports the theory that Jon is going to lose an eye, possibly as a price to pay for stealing back Sansa from Cersei.
Later in the second part I will discuss the foreshadowing that supports my prediction that Sansa is going to be pregnant when taken by Cersei and that someone is going to try to kill the baby. I can only make guesses on who that someone is, but I propose the possibility for that someone to be not Cersei.
Have I lost my mind and this predictions has gone too far? Probably. It was a long hiatus, so I hope you can forgive me if I went and made wild theories. Anyway, let’s start.
The post is based on a dialogue parallel between Jon and Sansa’s scene in 2x06/2x07 when Ygritte told Jon he is brave and Sansa told Sandor the same.
Ygritte to Jon Snow in 2x06 - The Old Gods and the New
Sansa Stark to Sandor Clegane in 2x07 - A Man Without Honor
So let’s mark “brave” as a cue for us to pay attention to the scene, okay? In the same season there are two more times where a dialogue between characters includes telling someone to be or that he/she is brave. Here is the one I’m going to discuss in this first part of the post.
Tyrion Lannister in 2x08 - The Prince of Winterfell
I will reveal later who he is speaking to for more impact, but perhaps you know already.
Tyrion is serving as Hand to King Joffrey and he made decisions that irks Cersei. This is after he send Myrcella to Dorne and now he wants Joffrey to be in the battlefield on the war with Stannis. Cersei tries to find his weakness, and captured a certain whore.
Cersei Lannister to Tyrion in 2x08 - The Prince of Winterfell
Cersei thinks Tyrion loves the whore very much.
Who is she?
Cersei didn’t capture Shae. It’s the red haired Ros. Who was given a Lannister necklace.
Like another redhead who got a Lannister necklace?
Sansa Stark to Joffrey Baratheon in 1x06 - A Golden Crown
This redhead who was pulling the said necklace in front of Tyrion during their wedding night.
Sansa Stark in 3x08 - Second Sons
And who is Cersei calling a whore these days, I wonder?
Cersei Lannister in 7x01 - Dragonstone
I don’t need to to tell you which person Sansa stands beside, right? And who therefore will be the character counterpart for Sansa’s foreshadowing, to whom Cersei will taunt for having her.
And also look, I’m sorry, I can’t help but to present this small jab to j0nerys.
Tyrion Lannister in 2x08 - The Prince of Winterfell
Now what made me think that Sansa will be carrying her brother’s bastard? It is this dialogue.
Cersei Lannister to Tyrion in 2x08 - The Prince of Winterfell
I admit there are more than one way to interpret the foreshadowing from this scene. First the obvious one. That Tyrion will later married Sansa, the redhead with the Lannister necklace because Tywin told him to. Especially Sansa was pulling that necklace during her wedding night with Tyrion.
And since Tyrion actually married “this one” (Sansa) unlike what the dialogue tells us, then perhaps Jon would already married Sansa too when she is pregnant and taken by Cersei.
But that wasn’t my first interpretation. See I already have this question in my head on whether the baby is going to be a bastard or not (as you know, I already have such as strong faith over the kidnapping plot and I also believe that she will be pregnant when taken). Will Jon and Sansa have a chance to marry before Sansa is taken by Cersei. And when I watch this scene it was almost like Cersei is answering my question. So that was my first interpretation. That they weren’t married. The irony is also too strong: Cersei’s children with her brother are bastards and Jon is so afraid of fathering a bastard having grown up as a bastard while he’s not really a bastard, and now he and her “sister” having a bastard child.
Also there’s this.
In my previous posts, I interpret dialogues which includes “my brother” or “my sister” to refer to Jon and Sansa’s relationship as brothers and sisters. Will Sansa becomes “her brother’s whore”?
This scene even tells us why Cersei will take Sansa.
So there it is. The motivation also fits.
Now at the very least, there’s the redhead and the necklace, then Tyrion married the redhead with the necklace, but she hasn’t been taken by Cersei yet. And when she’s taken, would someone steal her away from Cersei’s clutch? And what price will that person has to pay?
A Man Without Honor (2x07), David Benioff & D.B Weiss
The parallels continues between the two episodes and therefore I have put it in one post. In 2x06 we see parallels between Jon when he range north of the wall capturing Ygritte and Sansa during the riot in King’s Landing. Then in 2x07 we see them both talking and experiencing a lot with their reproductive organs. I’m not going to talk about what these parallels means, because I think I’ve covered that in my previous post. I’m sorry if it makes it less exciting. This is strictly just a list of the parallels and mostly to complete my series. I made this series of Jonsa parallels is simply to show how Jonsa is already set up (very intricately) since the beginning. It’s also quite interesting to see how their dialogue sometimes answers to each other. First let’s start with 2x06.
1. Sansa was missing in the riot in King’s Landing while Jon was separated from his Night’s Watch brothers because he was chasing Ygritte who has escaped. Tyrion was looking for Sansa while Ygritte asked Jon if he thinks his brothers is looking for him
2. Sansa was trapped and forced to run to an alley.
3. Sansa was sexually assaulted, but so was Jon albeit a lot less violent when Ygritte grind his hip.
4. Sansa was reflecting on her experience, asking why did those people do that to her.
Shae gave her an answer. Her horse eats better than their children. But Qhorin Halfhand also gave her an answer.
5. Sansa would gave them bread if she had it.
While Jon said that he would gladly give his life to the Night’s Watch. But Qhorin thinks he should fight for his life.
But Sansa did fight her assailants.
6. Nevertheless, The Hound had to save her to which she was grateful and she told him that he was brave in the next episode. But Ygritte was telling Jon that he is brave in episode 6.
here is Sansa telling Sandor he is brave (2x07)
7. Jon had to sleep close to Ygritte and he got a boner.
While Sansa got her period for the first time.
8. Ygritte and what he thought about men’s “stone”
And Sansa talking to Cersei about what she thought about menstruating.
9. Jon asking Ygritte to stop talking and walk because Ygritte was teasing him about sex. He asked Ygritte to turn back around
Shae and Sansa trying to flip over the bed to cover the blood stain
Part 2 of the “Brave” Connection in Season 2: Tears Aren’t a Woman’s Only Weapon
This is part 2 of my post discussing the scenes in season 2 that are pinpointed with the word “brave”.
Predictions that comes from the first part is the kidnapping of Sansa by Cersei based on the parallel between different characters linked by the Lannister lion necklace. Furthermore since I predict that Sansa is going to be pregnant when taken by Cersei, some scenes I discuss there can be interpreted as a clue that the child would probably be a bastard. The last prediction I discussed there supports the theory that Jon is going to lose an eye, possibly as a price to pay for stealing back Sansa from Cersei.
By the way, for those who aren’t convinced that Sansa is going to be pregnant, would Bobby B screaming it will? Back in part 1, I establish a link through the word “whore” between Sansa and the characters that were used to foreshadow her faith.
Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark in 1x05 - The Wolf and the Lion
No? Well, here in the second part I will discuss the foreshadowing that supports my prediction that Sansa is going to be pregnant when taken by Cersei and that someone is going to try to kill the baby (like the dialogue above telling you). I can only make guesses on who that someone is, but I propose the possibility for that someone to be not Cersei.
Please don’t be mad at me for this, I am so horrified by it too and I could be totally wrong about this and I hope I am wrong, but I found what I found and now I will let you guys decide whether I’m a complete psycho or not. Please stay tune for this very heartwarming prediction....
First again I’m going to point out Jonsa parallel in 2x06/2x07. This is where Ygritte is telling Jon that he is brave and Sansa telling Sandor that the same.
Ygritte to Jon Snow in 2x06 - The Old Gods and the New
Sansa Stark to Sandor Clegane in 2x07 - A Man Without Honor
Therefore I marked “brave” as a word where we should be paying attention when it is said. There are two other scenes in season 2 with “brave” dialogue and I have discussed the other one in part 1.
Now I’m going to discuss this one where we have Gilly saying it to Sam when he saved her from Ghost.
Gilly to Samwell Tarly in 2x02 - The Night Lands
What scene that follows after that?
A. Shot. Of. Long. Claw. Need I say more?
Then what?
Sam is asking Jon to help him help Gilly.
Sam wanted to take Gilly away.
So that’s stealing away a pregnant woman.
A fun bit: will Sam be delivering the baby as well?
Now that was sweet. Here comes the bitter part. Gilly is afraid that she will have a baby boy.
But then ran off before finishing her sentence because she’s too afraid to tell Jon what would happen if she has a boy.
Do we know anyone who is afraid that she won’t have a baby boy?
Sansa Stark and Septa Mordane in 1x04 - Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things.
Sansa is afraid she will have a girl, because a queen’s duty is to provide an heir for the king. A baby boy is a king’s heir, and an heir with a claim to throne becomes a threat to a residing power.
Wait, but I was wrong about something. There is another instance where the word brave is used in season 2.
Catelyn Stark in 2x03 - What is Dead May Never Die
And after that, what was happening in Renly’s storyline?
Your enemies aren’t happy about us. They want to tear us apart. And the best way to stop them is to put your baby in my belly.
Margaery Tyrell in 2x03 - What is Dead May Never Die
How many times have the show put out the importance of an heir for a dynasty? There’s one with Daenerys, with Sansa and Tyrion, and so forth. And how does one produced an heir? By conceiving, carrying and give birth to it.
Cersei Lannister to Sansa Stark in 2x09 - Blackwater
Cersei was talking about seducing Stannis Baratheon, but that’s not the only way to use what’s between a woman’s legs. It is also used to give birth to a king’s heir. The parallel between Sansa and Elizabeth of York is well known, and forgive me if my English history is informed by The White Princess, but in that show Henry Tudor had to make sure EoY can bear his children before marrying her and making her queen. After she’s pregnant with his child, then Henry married and crowned her. His heir helped him lock his claim to throne, especially that this heir have a claim from his mother’s side too, a strong York name. Their first boy is technically a bastard and he died before becoming a king.
I recently read a post by @fortunatelylori saying that child birth is woman’s battlefield in the medieval times. Look what is Cersei saying to Sansa here when they are being attack by Stannis.
At that time Sansa was having her period. Probably the next time she will be in labour to give birth to the king’s heir.
Again, for the question on whether the child will be a bastard or not, there’s some clues here. Cersei also told Sansa that if the city is sacked the women who was with them will be raped and
Come the morning she will no longer have a bastard in her belly because she has gave birth to it.
Now let’s go back to the Gilly episode. After we talk about Gilly giving birth to a baby boy, we are given this scene.
Ross and Littlefinger in 2x02 - The Night Lands
She’s talking about a baby who was Robert Baratheon’s bastard who was killed because they are perceived as a threat to Joffrey’s kingship. That baby was a girl and was killed all the same. Imagine if it’s a boy.
Then Tyrion sent Janos Slynt to the Wall because of this.
Tyrion Lannister to Janos Slynt in 2x02 - The Night Lands
Furthermore some clues that may perhaps show that the baby will be killed by somebody who is paid to do so.
Janos Slynt to Tyrion Lannister in 2x02 - The Nights Land
Tyrion Lannister and Bronn in 2x02 - The Night Lands
So, who will be ordering the kill? Let’s take a look on our possible perpetrators.
First up, Cersei. D’uh! She’s the one who would be kidnapping Sansa after all, to take revenge for her first born son. Wouldn’t it be fitting for her to kill her first born child too? Plus, Cersei now has an army which she paid for. However take a look at this dialogue.
Tyrion Lannister to Cersei in 2x02 - The Night Lands
No, it was Joffrey. Would Cersei have the heart to kill babies when she has loved her own children very much? Especially if it’s Sansa’s baby who would be the bastard child of her brother? Sansa, with whom she have complicated and twisted sort of mother-daughter relationship? I kinda think this will be Cersei’s turning point. What if her mercy towards Sansa will be her doom? What if it is a point where the younger more beautiful queen cast her down? What if it’s when she could no longer do what’s need to be done to stay in power.
When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.
Cersei Lannister in 1x07 - You Win or You Die
I did unspeakable things to protect my family. Or watch does being done on my orders. And whatever I imagine necessary for the safety of House Tyrell, I did. But your sister has done things I was incapable of imagining. She’s a monster, you do know that?
Olenna Tyrell in 7x03 - The Queen’s Justice
What if the most ruthless player in the Game of Thrones, as proven by the statement by Lady Olenna above, couldn’t imagine hurting a child?
Cersei Lannister to Sansa Stark in 2x07 - A Man Without Honor
Cersei has maternal affection towards Sansa like she’s somewhat her own daughter when she’s really not, and that is the irony of her own advice.
Shae to Sansa Stark in 2x09 - Blackwater
And when Sansa gave birth to a child then there it is the grandchild that was promised. (Thank you @une-nuit-pour-se-souvenir for reminding me of this scene)
Cersei Lannister to Catelyn Stark in 1x01 - Winter is Coming
I think I’ve made my point. Cersei is definitely the top contender but the story could choose not to go that way. So now on to the next. The Night’s King is also an obvious candidate because he is already killing babies and Gilly’s son was supposed to be offered to him. There’s nothing to discuss here. It is indeed a very possible option. An option I would hate because that sounded like a j0nerys dream plot. I’m afraid a magic incest baby is already trademarked by them, so I’ll just mention it because it has to be mentioned, but no I don’t like it.
Now next, answer this fun trivia. While Lena Headey said that she is rooting for her character, which actress who was so horrified by her character’s plot in season 8 that she had to walk around aimlessly for hours?
Her stan will have my head for even trying to suggest it and it’s true, it’s quite a wild and baseless accusation and I have no material to back it up save for the actress’ reaction to her character’s plot (and it could be a reaction to any number of things). I haven’t found any foreshadowing to suggest she is capable of and will kill babies for power. However, she has the motives to do that. Obviously, a nephew who has better claim than she is and has an heir from a woman with a great name gives a motive. Especially that she is incapable of producing an heir for herself and she’s avoiding to deal with this small issue. Also, what if she got pregnant and had a miscarriage? Wouldn’t that send her to the edge? Guys, I’m so scared of a j0nerys marriage at this point. Why? Call me insane, but how about a parallel between Jon and Renly Baratheon?
1x05/7x01 and 1x06/7x07
I know, I know, the dialogue parallel is a bit flimsy, but whatever.
So we have a brother-sister-spouse trio. Jaime-Cersei-Robert, Loras-Renly-Margaery and now maybe Sansa-Jon-D*enerys. One sibling is married to another person while being in love with the other person (whether it’s incestuous or gay). Each have an expert swordsman; Jaime, Loras and Jon.
I mean, I’m sure they’ll give us a jonsa ending, but I think they will fucked us up first. Again, this prediction could be insane, but if it happens, I’ll be prepared. (no, I won’t, I will never be prepared for a j0nerys marriage). Imagine, the j0neryses will have their wedding and the jonsas will have their romance but not in way that each shippers really would have wanted it to be.
And I know, the politics doesn’t make sense for a j0nerys marriage bla bla bla, but Jon’s obsession protecting the people from the Night’s King made any normal politics becomes insensible if I may argue. And beside, again, I still believe we will get jonsa at the end.
Say, if Jon married D*ny while having an affair with Sansa and both got pregnant it would made sense for one to want to kill the bastard baby. And what if she had a miscarriage? Remember that Renly was murdered by a shadow baby. If it’s going to happen in a less literal sense with Jon, perhaps he doesn’t want to marry D*any but he has to because she was pregnant. When he could have married the one he really wanted! That’s kinda like being stabbed in the back by a shadow baby.
I’m just putting it out there for consideration, that is if this theory made any sense at all from the first place.
