"juvia really wasn't needed plot wise. Some would argue she help[ed] the team enter the Tower of Heaven but I'm pretty sure they would have found a way without her. Same for Battle of Fairy tail. she literally accomplished nothing there. she was absent from Edolas and Oracion Seis.
I'd ignore the filler arcs because they are trash, but in the Daphnee arc she didn't do anything either, besides blindly defending Gray even though he was 100% in the wrong (and I say this asa massive Gray fan). In Tenrou she arguably dragged the whole fight down with her obsession with Gray. she only saved Meredy because she was about to kill Gray. And it was entirely JUVIA'S fault. If she could actually put her feelings for Gray aside in a very dangerous fight, Gray would never have been so close to die to begin with.
In GMG, she didn't care about her own guild's reputation, only to be with Gray. I'll never get over her LOSING A BATTLE IN WATER. she could have changed in water and force everyone out, but got distracted by Gray, again. her winning would have prevented Minerva from torturing Lucy. she was absent from Sun village. Only in Tartaros did she do something remotely useful by killing Keith. But that was only because he was a threat to Gray.
Also the whole fight against Invel in Alvarez was forced af. It's not indicative of juvia's usefuleness. Invel would have used anyone around."
My Two Cents
Huge thank you to @perfectlyimperfectcharacterfan (I'll refer to them as "Perfectly" for ease now in this post), a delightful regular on my blog who always comments insightful thoughts about juvia and gr///via on my posts, who sent this to me in a dm and allowed me to make a post about it!
They did an amazing job parsing through the arcs, and I really don't need to add anything, but I'll just slide in my two cents at the end here.
About the BOFT arc, one could say that juvia did manage to free her and Cana from Freid's spell, but as I've said before, that was just her earning brownie points, and she kept none of the alleged "character growth" from that. Plus in the end, it was Mirajane who had to defeat Freid anyway, so her "sacrifice" really was useless.
I love what Perfectly said about the Daphne arc. I completely and totally agree with them (and I actually have an old post about this exact topic here if y'all want to read it). I couldn't have said it better myself, that juvia blindly defended Gray despite his wrongdoings, showing how she really only "cared" about Gray and not the rest of the guildmates that got horribly hurt by his stupid mistakes. That's not trust, that's insane obsession that keeps her believing Gray is infallible and perfect no matter what he does, which is so toxic towards Gray and her and everyone around them.
In the GMG, like Perfectly touched on, juvia didn't care about the guild's reputation. she didn't care that for 7 years, Fairy Tail struggled, was bullied, was mocked, was actually oppressed by the other guilds into paying absurd taxes, because they lost their most powerful members to Tenrou Island. Not only that, but they mourned for years because their friends and family had disappeared, and they didn't know if they were dead or alive. All of this hurt and trauma FT went through couldn't matter less to juvia lockser.
True FT member my butt; she doesn't love any of them, not even Gray. she didn't care enough to actually try in the GMG, and she actually wished for her FT guildmates to get hurt so badly that they had to drop out so she could participate with Gray. The wickedness of her heart is astounding. And yeah, she totally whiffed what should've been the easiest match up for her in the water battle, leading to Lucy being abused just as Perfectly said, and she also threw the Hide and Seek match by being a "love" obsessed idiot as she always is.
And let's not forget that after the GMG during the dragon battle, juvia literally gets Gray killed because she's not paying attention to anything except for Gray as always, even in the midst of a life-and-death situation, and makes it so that Gray has to save her butt for her. I mean, how much worse could this ship get, when it literally causes one of them (the victim, even) to die needlessly???
On the whole note of juvia's uselessness, one could even go as far to say that juvia is an active hinderance and blight on the lives of the people around her. she really constantly oozes toxicity and sucks the life out of everyone she comes into contact with, most of all Gray through her manipulation and abuse, but also all the women in Gray's life, as well as her fellow FT members. she is a weak link, a liability, an impediment, a stone dragging down and drowning everyone, including herself. she will never notice or care about that fact because she gets what she wants in the end, what she thinks is good: Gray's brow-beaten, brainwashed "affection".
No one wins when they rely on her. she is a parasite.
Anyway, gigantic shoutout to Perfectly again for taking the time to think so deeply about all these things, for sharing their thoughts with me, and for allowing me to share them with all of you! juvia really is a useless character, and the Fairy Tail story and her guildmates would've been infinitely better off without her.
Hi you mentied in one of your post about Juvia sacrifice herself for Cana , and you had problems with it ? I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the matter (also I agree with Juvia friendship with the girls , it’s a shame we never saw Lucy snap at Juvia . Since Juvia always calling her a love rival , bimbo or just being mean . She post to be close to Gajeel but I can’t remember any scenes with them just bonding without Gray being involved in any conversation.)
Why the Cana v. juvia scene does not prove that juvia is a good person
Ah yes, I'm so glad you asked! It seems like you refer to a point I made in my Veritable Essay post, which is crazy long, so kudos to you for reading through it! For those who don't know, it's an analytical post picking apart a Pro's argument that I found floating around online.
My main issue with that Battle of Fairy Tail scene is that everything juvia said there comes off as disingenuous when you take into account her behavior throughout the rest of the anime. Sure, her words sound great and all here, but she doesn't act on them later. I'll explain down below.
First of all, she literally told Cana that her motivation was to prove herself to the guild, so clearly she had other motives. her exact words were "I wanted to prove to the guild that there's no reason to doubt me." she wanted to show hey look at me guys, I love Fairy Tail! Even though I didn't care WHATSOEVER when it disbanded! Even though the ONLY reason I joined was because the hawt ice wizard is a member! Even though I have NEVER formally apologized to any of the people I hurt during the Phantom Lord arc! But look at me, I'm a good person, I promise! You don't need to kick me out of Gray's guild!”
In the end, looking good to her guildmates really only helps her quest in snagging Gray for herself, because, as they actually do in the anime, they support juvia and admonish Gray for not returning her manic affections, aiding in gaslighting him until he thinks he's an awful human being for having basic boundaries and rights to consent.
I am not so jaded to believe she was thinking all these things consciously.
But all that really becomes true when you consider how she doesn't have any loyalty to Fairy Tail, only Gray.
You see that when, again, juvia only decided to join Fairy Tail because that's where Gray was. You see that where juvia tries to literally kill fellow guild member Lucy by making her air bubble smaller, because she saw her as a love rival. You see that clearly in the Daphne arc, where she shows that she doesn't care one lick that Gray betrayed and hurt everyone. You see that in juvia frolicking off to follow Gray after Fairy Tail disbanded, happily living her "best life" leeching off of Gray and invading his space without his consent (and the manga shows that she stayed despite him not wanting her there because he said she barged in and refused to leave, which she found funny). You see that when juvia wishes something horrible would happen to one of the Team Fairy Tail members in the Grand Magic Games just so she could join the team to be with Gray. You see that when juvia doesn't care at all about trying hard in the GMG even though it's their chance to make up for all of the hardships FT had to go through thanks to all the most powerful members being gone at Tenrou for 7 whole years and of course ends up lusting after Gray the whole time and being an idiot and failing. You see that when juvia excessively harasses and bullies other (supposedly beloved by her) Fairy Tail members like Lucy and any living, breathing woman (and even a freaking Exceed, Frosch, not to mention a literal child, Wendy).
her inconsistencies go on and on. her exact words of "I love all of you. The Fairy Tail guild will always be my home" in that Battle of Fairy Tail scene are proven completely false because of all that I've mentioned.
So, my real problem isn't with the scene by itself. If juvia had said and done all of those things and then changed her nasty behavior towards Gray and towards all the women by leaving them the heck alone and actually being kind to them for once, then it would have been a huge milestone for her (currently nonexistent) character growth. However, as I showed here, that is not the case. In the end, her words and actions in the Cana v. juvia v. Freed scene ring hollow and empty because her later actions do not prove them to be true. In fact, they prove them to be false. That's even worse, because it just shows how juvia really basically lied to Cana in that scene.
Moving on, I'm glad you agree about how juvia should have no friends thanks to her behavior. I really wish we got to see Lucy tell juvia what's what, but Mashima would never have his characters truly berate juvia for any of the horrendous things she does to them. Plus, Lucy is just a good person who wants to believe in the best in everyone.
And such a good point! juvia is supposedly close friends with Gajeel, but they really never interacted after the Phantom Lord arc, and even then, they interacted severely minorly. juvia really doesn't make "friends" with anyone without Gray being involved somehow. (And before Pros mention Meldy/Meredy, she only became "special" to juvia because she "proved" to her that Gray "loved" her through her powers of linking people. So Gray was still included there.)
All in all, thank you for your ask and for your patience! I hope I explained things well enough!
I went and found some moments where Gray is clearly showing how uncomfortable he is. I think it's fitting to provide my own evidence since Author did, but I was going to add examples anyway even if I hadn't read Author's post. Anyway, in anime and manga, the mangaka always makes it clear when someone is a tsundere, always makes the little details show that the tsundere actually likes the other individual. I see no such details in these panels.
Come on, look at how his hair is standing up in the last panel. His hair is literally standing on its end, which is indicative of chills running up your spine and being completely unnerved and freaked out. He's not joking that she's scary, he's not trying to cutely cover it up that he secretly enjoys this. The voice actors do a great job of showing how distraught Gray is by this in the anime too.
Yeah, Gray's face says it all. Those vertical lines on his face are used in manga to show when someone's uncomfortable or feeling some sort of negative downer feeling. And wow just look at her language. Gray right out says he's not into this type of thing, it's not something he's comfortable with, that he doesn't have these perverted hobbies, and yet she responds with "But I doooo~", showing very clearly that she doesn't care whatsoever about what makes Gray happy or at peace of mind, just that her own fetishes and fantasies are being fulfilled. Wow. The more I investigate juvia, the more I am disgusted. I didn't think it was possible tbh, but I suppose I should've known since it's juvia we're talking about, queen of toxicity and creepiness.
Just look how disgruntled and aggrieved Gray is here. He's literally sweating bullets. No ounce of blush, no once of him trying to hide any underlying feeling, just pure unadulterated discomfort and unease. juvia's not even denying what he's saying here (her deplorable behind is actually proud of her actions, which you can see on her disgusting smug expression). He obviously didn't invite her or happily let her in; she literally barged in and would NOT leave his house, which just means that she followed him to his new home, so yeah, the stalking never ends, people!!
I don't even remember which episode this is, but Gray's expression is full of distress and absolutely freaking the heck out. He doesn't find this endearing or cute at all, and he makes it clear that he doesn't even want to be associated with her by others nor to have to deal with her.
Also don't remember which episode, but c'mon, she's a naked chick rubbing up against him, and he's STILL disgusted. Those lines of discomfort on his face and those sweat drops again. Not even juvia's superficial paltry looks can make him interested.
Ah yes, I'm pretty sure this was from an Omake after the GMG where the losing FT team had to do a punishment game or something or other. Again, juvia's naked breast has been whipped out despite no one wanting to see it, what an actual disturbing pervert.
(And no, this is not comparable to Gray's stripping habit in the slightest because juvia has full control of herself despite never using self-control, whereas Gray's stripping is sort of an instinct [I've seen some people say it might be a trauma response/coping mechanism, and I think it could very well be that] ingrained into him by his deceased mentor where he actually gets really embarrassed once he finds himself down to his boxers, as he does it unconsciously. juvia however has no shame and is actively sexually harassing Gray by doing this, not to mention just plain copying him with a complete lack of dignity, and she is showing that she literally has no personality outside of Gray and is literally amalgamating with him.)
And instead of liking the view, Gray's utterly creeped out. You might think that Gray just doesn't appreciate the female form like that, but Gray shows that to be false through him going gooey-eyed when Virgo changed Lucy in front of him, or when he was excited to check the shower for Lucy when they were looking for her, or how he fantasized about Lucy in a skimpy paper outfit, or even how he blushed really hard when Virgo was helping keep Lucy's skirt down in high winds while her own was flashing him. All in all, Gray likes the female form, just not THIS female form because it comes with a psychopath.
Again, no blush, all freaking out, despite, again, a nigh naked woman glomping onto him full force (which is sexual harassment might I add since he doesn't consent.)
Note here, what's funny is Author used the first panel in their "proof", and yet they coincidentally decided to leave out the very next panel where Gray is clearly creeped out by juvia's refusal to face reality and her refusal of acknowledging his boundaries. Again, all sweat and all seriousness. Nothing about her reaction to his rejection is funny to him, nothing is being hidden, he's genuinely creeped by her (and honestly who wouldn't be?? Pros, think about it. If someone kept pursuing you despite you not being interested and despite you telling them you're not, would you not be creeped out? Why do you support this witch again?)
This last picture is even from the 100yq, something I don't even consider to be canon thanks to Gray being completely OOC, where gr///via has been hammered into being 'canon', and even here there are still scenes where Gray is just grossed out by juvia and completely uncomfortable, in a nervous sweat to boot. You can still commit sexual harassment even if you're dating, I hope y'all know that.
I would love to post more evidence, really, I would, but the internet actually just hates all things Anti gr//////via unfortunately. Looking up anti gruvia just brings up mostly anti-anti gr///via content because of course that makes sense, and I don't feel like rewatching all their "moments" right now because I value my sanity a little bit.
Oh well. That's why I run this blog. Gotta represent.
Whenever I do my next re-watch, maybe I'll take screenshots of all the times Gray is grossed out by her. Does NOT sound fun because I don't want to have juvia's pictures on my phone, but it might just have to be done.
Anyway, all that I put into these three posts (and probably more tbh but my brain is fried from thinking about juvia so much rn) is why I think Gray is NOT a tsundere.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Closing Notes:
I think I'll just end this trilogy of posts quite unceremoniously here. I've spent hours and hours working on it, so I really just want feedback on it at this point. I hope I don't sound too mean throughout the posts; I tried to be transparent and honest though.
Please do let me know your thoughts on the subject of Gray being or not being a tsundere, and please give me your thoughts on my post! Discussion helps get us closer to the truth! Please remain respectful even if you disagree with what I said, though.
(Also, I would like to know whether my readers like these long, in depth studies into different aspects of Pro gr///vian arguments, or if y'all like my shorter responses to asks instead. If you don't care, that's fine too. I don't do much of these longer posts anymore because I have so many actually amazing asks, so maybe that's for the better, idk, lmk.)
Anyway, thank you for your time, and I hope you enjoyed my analysis! Have a wonderful day/night!
That way none of those toxic Jerza shippers come after me, can we address on how unhealthy Jerza is and why it's a bad ship? I don't like how Erza who was completely traumatized by jellal and only wanted him to be okay is now all, "Oh JeLlaL, i'M sO SuBMissIvE FOr yOu, EVen iF yOu dId nEArlY kIll mE iN tHe FIrSt SeAsoN, nOw I wAnT yOuR BaBiEs aNd wHaTeVEr."
🖤 - Anonziz
Why I don't blame Jellal for Tower of Heaven and therefore ship Jerza
(Firstly, thank you for your patience!)
Alright, let's talk about Jerza!
As I like to say, "No one is free from criticism; to pretend otherwise is folly", so even though I personally like Jerza, let's dive into this.
I'm not sure I've ever seen Erza act in the way you're describing, acting submissive and baby-crazy, though I'm sure you were just dramatizing your words for effect which is fine. Of course, I haven't been reading Fairy Tail 100yq, so maybe I'm just out of the loop, and she is acting that way now, but unfortunately, I don't have a way to confirm or deny that if it is indeed how 100yq Erza acts, so I'll just go off what I know from the anime I've seen.
I can see why you're upset with Jerza, since Jellal probably traumatized Erza by brutalizing her and for kicking her out all by herself into the world and for lying to everyone about her and keeping them enslaved. What he did was cruel. And you cannot undo actions, even if you try to make up for it. That bell can’t be un-rung.
However.
I still ship Jerza because the reason Jellal did those awful things is because he was controlled and manipulated by Ultear with her magic. She used "possession magic" on him, and she was able to pollute his thoughts and turn him evil, which then led to him keeping the Tower of Heaven workers there on the island to finish building it. That's the only reason Jellal turned evil in the first place. As a kid, we saw how kind and strong and loving he was, and what a good leader he was.
It doesn't make the most sense to me to blame him for doing a complete 180 from that to his manipulative, lying, selfish, brutal self when it wasn't his fault in any way. The only reason he was in a position to be possessed was because he sacrificed himself for Erza. Also, after he lost his memory, he acted like his old self again. And even after he got his memory back, he was filled with remorse and self-loathing and a powerful drive to repent and to make things right for the sins he committed.
I think these facts show that his true self was the self he was before he was manipulated by evil magic.
I also think that Jerza is one of the best things Mashima has written, at least from what I've seen from the main story of FT and not 100yq, nor the last Alvarez arc. Instead of Erza throwing herself into Jellal's arms as soon he got his memories back, she let him do the right thing and turn himself in to the Grand Magic Council for judgment. Instead of trying to escape punishment, Jellal went with them willingly and then worked hard to do good deeds to make up for the horrible things he did, even though it wasn't his fault. And even though they had a chance to love each other after he'd created his own guild, he lied and said he had a fiance, and Erza pretended to believe him, because they both knew they had growth to do before they were ready. They were both selfless and put their own desire to love and be loved by the other person aside in favor of doing the right thing.
I think rather than showing how horrible it is that Erza still loves Jellal despite all he's done, I think it shows how good a person she is. It just demonstrates her virtue that she's able to forgive Jellal and to see past her own personal trauma and hurt to realize that Jellal wasn't to blame for his actions, but she knew he needed to repent for himself. I thought this showed how healthy the ship was because both people involved are putting the other person first and because they honor the other person's boundaries. (Unlike juvia.)
I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this, though! Discussion is essential to finding the truth about things, though when it comes to this, it's probably fine to agree to disagree.
pros always focus solely on the 'canon' part of certain gruvia moments. Ch 499 especially, they deliberately ignore how forced the scene is since gray & juvia have abilities that SHOULD allow them to escape. Instead they focus on the Japanese translations and go 'See it's canon! Gray loves Juvia!! Double suicide is used in Japan to show love!' Like yeah, congrats you got your canon via contrivances & poor writing, what a win.
The Double Gray and juvia Su*cide Was NOT Romantic
Ugh, I am feeeeling your salt right now, Anon.
"Congrats, you got your canon via contrivances and poor writing, what a win".
I am with you in the amount of sarcasm in this statement. Everything about gr///via is contrivances and poor writing, with an ample portion of toxicity and abuse to boot.
The stupid scene where Gray and juvia must perform a double su*cide is so dumb, I agree. To be completely honest, I never really pored over the scene, either in anime or manga, I just know generally what happens. So, if I get something wrong, someone feel free to correct me. But anyway, it's so dumb how juvia's OP power of being made of water is practically never used, especially for the sake of it being a gr///via plot point. juvia (I presume, I'm still unsure of the nature of the binding magic) should've been able to escape it by liquifying herself.
This isn't even the only time she hasn't used her power when she totally could've! Let's think back to her fight with Gray alllll the way back in the Phantom Lord arc, when she fell off the castle and was acting like she was going to die or some baloney. You're literally water; you hit water, you'll just turn into water, and you'll be fine. Idiot. Moron. Imbecile.
And my goodness, Pros who say "See it's canon! Gray loves juvia!" just because of the double su*cide thing are so grasping at straws because Gray has time and time again tried to sacrifice himself for his friends.
juvia isn't special.
Are Pros really going to pretend like if it was Natsu on the other end of that magic, or Lucy, or Erza, or heck even a supporting character like Max, that he wouldn't throw away his life for them in a heartbeat?
That's literally one of his main issues that he struggles with throughout the show that's literally addressed by other characters, how Gray needs to live for his friends, not to die for them. And then at the end of it, all Gray says is he'll take her feelings seriously for once so don't die instead of "Oh my gosh juvia I love you so much for no reason now."
Honestly, it's such a dumb, brain-dead plot point that presumably Gray starts to fall for juvia just because she killed herself for him. I've already addressed this better in another post of mine, but he didn't even decide to love her, he was just bargaining with her corpse out of misplaced guilt, and then was gaslit and manipulated into thinking these feelings of being indebted to her were feelings of love.
Also, their claims of “ha it’s canon” really do nothing for their ship. Canon≠Admirable ship, which I go through thoroughly in this post linked here.
Anyway, thank you so much for your insight, Anon. You brought up such good points! The double su*cide thing is far from romantic; it's just contrived and construed bs.
(I added this to my "Veritable Essay in Response to a Pro Gr///vian Argument” post, but I’m posting it separately in case no one sees).
The apparent reason for Gray’s polarizing shift from being creeped out by juvia’s behavior to wanting to make her happy over anyone else is because juvia sacrificed her life for Gray.
But what’s the difference between her and any of his other friends who were prepared to die for him?
The answer to that question is that from the beginning, juvia has been declaring her absolute love for him.
That is the only difference. And it’s not even a good one.
He proclaims that he will take her affections seriously for once not because he suddenly likes her, but because he feels obligated, indebted, bound to return her affections; otherwise he feels like he’s disregarded her emotions unfairly somehow, like he owes her since he “hasn’t given her anything even though she’s signed her life away to him”; otherwise she threw her life away “for nothing in return”. He's essentially bargaining with her corpse out of misplaced guilt.
Let me tell you this. That’s a big no-no. Just because your stalker and abuser throws their life away for you does NOT mean you have to suddenly return their feelings. They never cared about your feelings—otherwise they wouldn’t be stalking or emotionally and physically abusing you in the first place!—so why should you care about theirs??
Think about it. Gray never said "I'll take your feelings seriously" to anyoneeee else who had sacrificed or was about to sacrifice their lives for him. The only reason he told juvia that was because she basically bargained her life away for his devotion. she already had her cards on the table, she already let Gray know what she wanted, with her open declarations of love, and all she needed was for Gray to feel compelled to throw his hat in the ring.
In other words, the reason why Gray wouldn't promise to take the feelings of someone like Ur or Ultear seriously, both ladies who also sacrificed themselves for Gray, is simply because they had never told him that they loved him and wanted him romantically.
Yes, that is very obvious, but again, think about it. Gray would never have told juvia that he would try to love her if she had never pounded it into his brain that she loved him. It is that very fact that shows how Gray doesn't love juvia because of how special she is and better than the other women who've done the same thing, it is literally only because she already let him know that she lusted after him, and that is the only reason that makes her different.
You might say, “well it’s not like that was her reasoning for killing herself! she was just being selfless!” To that I say well obviously she was being selfless because she has no sense of self outside of Gray in the first place. her life doesn’t matter to her at all, so it’s no big deal, all that matters is Gray. she doesn’t exist without Gray.
And secondly, that may have not been her goal, but if she really wanted Gray to fall in love with her organically, naturally, for her as a person and not the one thing she did for him, then she would A, not stalk and harass him and would listen to him when he says NO (consent, people! It’s important!), and B, she wouldn’t feel good about Gray returning her love just because he feels indebted to her.
But nope.
she’s just happy Gray-sama is finally not rejecting her disgusting advances.
In any event, that’s never a good start/factor of a relationship anyway, with one side madly and blindly obsessed with the other, and with the other side being in the relationship ONLY because of an overwhelming sense of guilt and debt and duty to the other.
Closing Notes:
I hope this post makes some sense. And as always, thank you for your time and have a wonderful day!
Edit: Thanks for reblogging and reading the comments, @crystallos-sol ! It means a lot that a well-known protector of Gray Fullbuster likes my post!
Do you think Ichiya's harassment towards Erza is the same thing as Juvia's harassment towards Gray? and if that's the case then why is Erza allowing Juvia doing the same thing?
Double Standard between Ichiya and juvia
I do think Ichiya's harassment is basically the same thing as juvia's harassment. I really like your bringing attention to the fact that despite Erza being a victim of sexual harassment, she allows and encourages juvia to do the same thing to Gray.
Let's examine some of their behaviors side by side, shall we?
(Now it's been quite a few months since I watched FT last so I'm not going to remember every single Ichiya or juvia moment, but I'll write about what I remember off the top of my head. This won't be my greatest post, because of my bad memory haha. Feel free to comment any more similarities I might've missed!)
Ichiya has a habit of calling Erza pet names that have made her very uncomfortable. Tbh I'm not remembering all of them but I think he called her "baby" in the English dub version.
juvia also has a plethora of pet names for Gray that they had never agreed on and he had never asked for, just like Erza hadn't, like "darling" in the English dub. Also whenever she says Gray's name, she adds "-sama" to the end of it, elevating Gray to an embarrassing degree. I'm not an expert on Japanese suffixes, but I know they use that term when speaking to someone of muuuuch higher status than the speaker, like when they're referring to God, they say "kami-sama". It shows a crazy amount of respect and humbling of oneself, and Gray never asked for that and certainly doesn't consider himself better than juvia (though he should because she's pits). If you think about it, it's about the equivalent of this person who's unhealthily obsessed with you bowing down to you and calling you "your royal highness" or "your lordship" or "my queen/king" and actually meaning that level of respect when you never wanted them to in the first place. I think most people who don't have inflated egos would be very uncomfortable with someone who follows them around calling them those things all the time in public and in front of their friends especially.
Ichiya invades Erza's space all the time, sniffing her "parfum" at a very disturbingly close distance, which usually ends up with him getting kicked in the face.
juvia does the same thing constantly, with her even jumping into Gray's mouth naked before. she hugs him (more like tackles him) out of the blue so much, and she didn't let go of his hand when he wanted her too after their unison raid in the GMG. It's really gross to blatantly ignore someone's personal bubble on a regular basis, especially if that person hasn't okayed it. Did her parents never teach her "hands to yourself" as a kid? Someone really needs to now. It's very r*pey behavior to put your hands on someone else, especially lecherously as she does, without their consent.
Ichiya treats Erza as if they're a package deal already despite them being very decidedly not.
juvia also pesters Gray incessantly about being her one and only, very assured that he is in fact hers despite never asking him to date her. she's a weird one. Sometimes she seems like she knows they're not dating, as she tries so hard to win him over, and sometimes she shows she thinks they are dating by being all lovey dovey and expecting Gray to only have eyes for her. she really is just crazy and has no rhyme or reason, so I don't worry too much about what she actually thinks because she clearly doesn't think at all. All that to say, she ignores what Gray wants because he's rejected her before and she doesn't care, and she's delusional from thinking her methods work and are humane.
I guess the last similarity I can think of, that ties in the stuff I've already mentioned, is that neither of them takes no for an answer, which is soooo r*pey (yes, I use this term a lot, but it really captures their behavior) of them. It's just abhorrent to keep pushing and pushing their agenda to obtain the relationship they want even though the object of their disgusting affection clearly pushes back and rejects their advances.
Unforgivable really.
I can't believe this type of behavior is romanticized and humorized in anime and manga so often when it's just gross and criminal.
Back to your second question: Why is Erza allowing juvia to do the same thing to Gray when in reality, shouldn't she understand what Gray is going through since she has to endure it with Ichiya?
Honestly this is a really good question, and one I hadn't really thought hard into before. I think I might have an answer, though I'm sure Mashima didn't think this far through with his terrible character "development" skills.
First of all, this is just another example of men getting the short end of the stick in media. While Ichiya's advances get rebutted with a swift kick that sends him flying (as they should), juvia's advances are more or less allowed even with Gray's clear discomfort. And no one seems to care that Gray is being harassed. With Ichiya, it's clear we're meant to find him disgusting and a pig through even just his character design, with his very short body (which is usually found to be an unattractive character trait in men in society) and an ugly face. With juvia though, she's designed to be traditionally attractive, with the usual huge breasts and curvy yet slim figure, as well as a "cutesy" face. We're supposed to find her pretty, and therefore "she should be allowed to do all these nasty things to Gray because her pretty privilege turns all her nonconsensual harassments into being cute and acceptable."
News flash, it doesn't matter what you look like, if you ignore consent, you're disgusting and ugly af on the inside.
Just because juvia is conventionally cute and a woman (because so many people don't think women can have the power to do these criminal acts to men), she's given a pass, and we're supposed to root for her.
That's the first reason Erza is encouraging juvia, because Mashima is banking on the fact that everyone who watches/reads FT finds juvia's actions to be acceptable through her pretty woman privilege, and therefore he just wanted a female friend of hers to help her and support her actions. A character in the story, especially an important one like Erza, showing they support juvia is sort of the same thing as Mashima himself showing he agrees that juvia and Gray should be endgame.
Another reason, this will be more speculative and story-based, could definitely be that Erza is just friggin' dense and doesn't realize the parallel between Ichiya and juvia, or that juvia's actions are damaging to Gray's well-being. We're shown throughout the show that she's dense when it comes to certain things, especially how to behave in social settings. This could just be an offshoot of that, that like juvia, she's socially stunted on this front and fails to realize that juvia's actions are exactly like Ichiya's because she's a cute girl.
She's also been shown to be sort of an older sister figure to Gray, and that comes along with her bossing him around. She's used to being obeyed by Gray and Natsu and in general because of her power and her intimidating aura, so it could really be that she's decided that she knows what's best for Gray, that Gray needs some love and romantic affection, and that juvia, since she is a ready resource that's completely willing to provide him that, is perfect for him. Maybe Erza respects juvia's "undying loyalty" -more like undying obsession- since the red-head has had to deal with loyalties and trust being broken before (think Tower of Heaven).
In the end, I think the true answer as to why Erza supports juvia is the usual one, oldy but a goody, that Mashima is just a sucky writer when it comes to all things gruviugh. I think the real Erza would never support let alone encourage juvia's unsolicited acts of fixating on and fetishizing Gray. I'd like to think she would be there for him like a truly good big sis would, and that she would spring to protect him from those who would do him wrong in a heartbeat.
That, unfortunately, is not the case, and yes, it's Mashima's fault for writing her so out of character, but unfortunately, it's how Erza canonically acts. I shake my head at this author yet again.
Closing Notes:
Thank you so much for your patience! I am back! :) Please do comment below if you have any thoughts as to why Erza supports this behavior despite her grievances with Ichiya, or if you have any thoughts at all!
Hey, I'm @xanvasofxords! Glad to be talking to you for the first time, until now I only ever saw your posts but never interacted much. But holy shit you speak so true--
Anyways, you know, I don't ship Gray with anyone. Because there's simply nobody I find is a suitable love interest for him in the series. I don't ship Graylu, just as that anon, but I passionately hate Gruvia. Why? Because it's result of a serious character assassination of two characters at once. One of them *cough* Gray *cough* used to be my favorite once before Gruvia brainrot took over Mashima. Sadly, now I don't care about him.
That said, I can't completely ignore his butchered character every time he's onscreen. So I just wanted to elaborate my own thoughts on the topic about Lucy and Erza being Gray's type :
Gray has carried the guilt of being the reason of his master and her daughter's despair. It's pretty normal for him to resist people who express their love towards him. It has to be done slowly, eventually breaking the invisible wall he surrounds himself with. With friendship. There's no other way than friendship.
The friends Gray grew up with mean his world. Why wouldn't they, they've been there since he joined the guild. They've been sharing happiness and sorrows together. Especially team Natsu members are a crucial part of his life. They helped him overcome his past with Ur and Deliora. He needs a person who values the relationships just as much as him if not more.
Gray is mature, but he can be pretty childish too. I think he needs someome to match his energy. She has to keep him in check while also being one with his fun-loving nature at times.
Gray is quite hesitant in terms of being affectionate in public it seems. He needs someone to respect that boundary for him and wait until he's ready. Someone who won't embarass him.
Gray needs someone who isn't dependant on him. Someone who can take care of herself even when he's not present.
I don't think Juvia has even one of these unfortunately. She's completely dependant on him emotionally, will literally drown a town with rain if need be. Doesn't respect Gray's boundaries and embarasses him publicly and even in front of thousand people in a arena. Her only gag is love and love rivals and love rival sensor. She doesn't match his energy except stripping alongside him and picking his clothes. She tries to compare herself with his friends all the time. Can't bear to think about him being alone with anybody, let alone Lucy. She wants him to choose her over everybody. She forces herself onto him with no regards of his discomfort.
I had a conversation with a friend of mine about this who follows you. So here is a piece of my mind! I'd message you off-anon but tumblr would reveal my main blog so sorry for the anon!
Hi, @xanvasofxords! Nice to meet you! I've seen some of your awesome posts around in the anti-tags, and I agree with a lot of what you say! You've got a very refreshing take on certain aspects of FT, so I am delighted that you're stopping by!
Onto your thoughts:
I totally understand where you're coming from, how you don't ship Gray with anyone. In all honesty, as an Anon has sent in an ask before, I would be totally fine if Mashima didn't make any ships canon and kept the focus on friendship and familial love. I think the show had its best moments when it stayed on course with the moral of the story. Not every friendship has to boil down to romantic love, and it's very refreshing to see powerful yet platonic love between friends. I personally think Gray staying by himself would be just as healthy as him being with Lucy, but that's just me, so please do keep doing you in regard to your ships haha.
Oh man, I so agree with you here though, that gr///via simultaneously destroys 2 characters' characters (ha) at once. juvia had all the potential to be a really cool, relatable heroine, who overcame feelings of loneliness and low self-worth with the help of her friends. Gray had the potential to finally put himself first for a change and value his own life so he could live for his friends and for himself and not just throw his life away for them.
But nope.
With the introduction of gr///via, juvia loses all individuality and self-agency. she finds no worth in herself, only in following and slobbering over Gray. she loses all relatability when she begins to act selfishly and creepily and obsessively as soon as someone shows her an ounce of human decency. she doesn't even care about friends, no matter what the once-in-a-blue-moon "i love friends" moments will try to have you think, and she would abandon any semblance of friends at the drop of a hat if it meant she could be with Gray.
With the introduction of gr///via, Gray now is shackled to a woman who doesn't actually love him but wants to possess him, and he's now manipulated into only living for her (not himself nor his friends) and only wanting her to be happy (disregarding himself entirely). There's being selfless, and then there's completely losing your sense of self. You can't help others by neglecting yourself completely, you know. juvia doesn't care that Gray's devolved into this; she just wanted him in her clutches, so she's happy Gray's joined her in her sick, manic, twisted version of love.
Yeah, you put it perfectly: it's a "serious character assassination of two characters at once". Neither of them is the best they could be, and they're no longer recognizable to whom they once were.
I don't blame you for not caring about the current 100yq Gray anymore; for me, I still hold true to the old Gray, the real Gray. The current Gray is definitely not the one we knew and loved.
Onto what you say next, wow.
Just wow.
I'm blown away by your thoughtfulness; you've parsed everything so wonderfully!
I agree with you 100% about your analysis of Gray and how romance would go with him. Wow, you make such good points; I'll give a few thoughts, but I really don't need to, because you've hit the nails on the head, my friend.
There's definitely no way to romance with him outside of friendship. That's the only way he's gotten close to people before, so it wouldn't make sense for him to fall in love with someone he was never friends with. He most definitely was never friends with juvia, considering friendship was never on the table with her, only romantic partners. she doesn't care about what he wants; she just wanted to date him, to own him. That's definitely not friendship. And friends were his whole life, so it makes even less sense that a woman who hates his closest, dearest, female friends just because they're women would become the object of his affection.
As for the rest of the characteristics, all of which I agree with, juvia absolutely doesn't fulfill any of those requirements. she in fact demolishes them by being the exact opposite of what Gray needs in a healthy relationship. I'm not going to reiterate it because you made such a perfect conclusion yourself, but I will say that my gosh, I don't understand how people could like juvia and this pairing when juvia doesn't even exist. she's not her own person; she has no personality or goals or motivations outside of Gray. The only things left to her are her jealousy, her selfishness, and her obsessiveness. Otherwise, she gives Gray nothing, and she herself is nothing, which you can see clearly if you take Gray out of the equation. (I talk more about this in this old post of mine).
I'm happy that we got connected through a follower of mine and a friend of yours! The Anti community is still strong! And don't worry about the anonymous thing, it really doesn't matter to me whether someone uses it or not! Anyway, thank you for sharing your wonderful thoughts! This was such a meticulously written ask, I am very impressed!
