morquendi hc: newborns are kept indoors until the new moon. this is so their first vision of the sky is as close to cuivienen as possible
know that "sundays child is x, mondays is y, etc?" theres that but for the phases of the moon. children of the new moon want for nothing for they dont have to wait, good things come to those that wait (children born on a waxing crescent), and i havent decided the rest.
of course theres also star signs, but idk anything about that yet
anyway i specifically say morquendi bc the two trees block the starlight and iirc seem to be held in higher esteem for calaquendi. there could be tree signs tho 👀
I think Ossiriand was actually fairly safe in post-Nirnaeth and post-third-kinslaying (and fall of Amon Ereb) Beleriand (for a given value of "safe" in post-Nirnaeth Beleriand).
We're never told of any major military movements into Ossiriand, though that could be down to Noldorin bias or plain lack of information, but I think the more compelling reason is actually just geography. Ossiriand is surrounded by the rivers Gelion, Ascar, and Adurant on three sides and the mountains on the other, and is shot through with no less than four other rivers.
These rivers are not just streams; they look small on the map, but to get on the map they must be of a significant size, and fording rivers with any significant military force is no joke. The dwarves provide an excellent example of this, because when their military force was trying to cross a river, Beren and the Green-elves wiped out every single one of them. With the number of spies Morgoth has (remember when one of his agents infiltrated a human gathering and impersonated Amlach so well no one noticed?) there's no way he didn't hear of this, and if I were him, I would put off invading Ossiriand until I had a way to deal with the rivers and the green-elves.
This is not to say that Ossiriand was perfectly safe, far from it, but I think it was actually a lot safer than you might initially assume with the rest of Beleriand overrun. I think there was a constant risk of death from relatively small groups of orcs that got into Ossiriand and caused casualties, but the green-elves were renowned in the Silm for their skill at staying hidden, which would've eventually lead to death-by-ambush for those orcs.
I don’t like the term Nandor and I’ll explain why after I explain a little about the etymologies of Tolkien's Elvish. There are three different timelines to know about when talking about it; internal, external and publication history. Internal History is the history of Tolkien’s languages in-verse. So when Paul Strack (and I will be following his example) says “primitive,” “ancient,” “archaic” or “old,” he is describing the languages history in-verse. External is how Tolkien’s languages changed throughout his life. So when Paul Strack describes a language as “early,” “middle,” “late,” “earlier,” and “later,” he is referring to the external development of Tolkien’s Languages. Publication history is self-explanatory in that it’s the order that information about Elvish languages was published to the general public.
Having explained that, my first issue with the term Nandor is that no one in-verse uses it, except for some Noldorin Historians in Aman and knew nothing about what happened to the group after they refused to cross Hithaeglir, and they could only remember that the leader was named Lenwë (WJ). This is like Washington Irving’s “A History of the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus,” where Irving uses sources to write an adventure story framed as a historical biography and now Columbus “discovered North America.” And that’s not even my biggest issue with the word Nandor.
My biggest issue with using Nandor is it’s etymology and internal history. As many people know, the Quenyan word Nandor means, “those who go back.” (SI). This is supposedly referring to how this group refused to cross Hithaeglir. That bits not what I have an issue with... Nandor is derived from the root (n)dan- which describes the reversal of an action or to undo something. The full definition from the War of the Jewels, is “...indicating the reversal of an action, so as to undo or nullify its effect, as in ‘undo, go back (the same way), unsay, give back (the same gift: not another in return).” (n)dan- itself is derived from the primitive form ndando, which means “one who goes back on his word or decision (WJ).” And that last bit is why I hate Nandor. It’s implying that “these are people who will go back on their word, and will flake out at the slightest misfortune.” Words and meanings change, of course, but would a race that has a long memory, loves to give names and plays with language for fun, really not know what they were doing naming their kin that?
Here’s a list of alternative terms;
Danwaith (S.) this was used by the Sindarin lore masters, though sometimes they confused it with Denwaith. This is formed from the words [dan] and [gwaith], which becomes [waith] later in Sindarin. [Gwaith] refers to a group of people and [dan] means “back to,” so the name means “People who go back.” Lenwë (Q.) is the leaders Quenyan name, but his other name is Denweg, hence the confusion. Danwaith, as far as I can tell, is a carryover from when Denweg’s name was Dan, which I’ll get to in a moment (WJ). This term is used to describe those who initially did not cross Hithaeglir.
Dana (Nan.) This is actually from Tolkien’s Middle period (external), and the only Middle period one I’ll go over, so I wouldn’t recommend using it, But I’ll give a quick overview. During this time, the leader of the Dana was named Dan (or Dân) and this is what the Dana called themselves. However, as you might recall, in-verse, (n)dan- come from ndando, so it’s unlikely that they’d refer to themselves as that. It’s other forms are Danas (pl.) and it’s angelized version Danian (LR, WJ, PE). This term is used to describe those who initially did not cross Hithaeglir.
Lindi (Nan.) This is the one I use to refer to the whole of the clan. When the Lindi first came into Beleriand, they called themselves Lindai, which is the old Teleri clan name (Lindâi -> Lindai -> Lindi (Nan) or Lindar (Q.)), but it had become Lindi in their tongue (WJ). Derived from the Sindar or directly from the Lindi, this is also what the Noldorin exiles used. This is derived from the primitive Elvish word lindā meaning “sweet sounding.” The singular is probably Lind (WJ, PE).
Lindil (S.) After the Sindar recognized the Lindil as kin, they adopted the name Lindi and gave it the form Lindil or Lindedhil (WJ). This is used to describe the Elves who followed Denethor to Beleriand.
Laegel (S.) This term later replaced Lindil among the Sindar. It means “Green-Elf,” which is a familiar term for us all! It’s plural is Laegil and it’s class plural is either Laegrim or Laegel(d)rim (WJ). This is used to describe the Elves who followed Denethor to Beleriand. Green-Elf is also used to describe them.
Laiquendi (Q.) This is the Quenyan translation of Laegel. It was translated by the Noldor, though it was not used very much (WJ). This is used to describe the Elves who followed Denethor to Beleriand.
Tawarwaith (S.) This term translates to “Forest (tawar) People (gwaith),” and is a term used to describe Silvan Elves. (UT)
Galadrim (Nan.) is a collective plural that means “Tree-People,” and is used to refer to the Elves of Lórien. The Sindarin equivalent is Galadhrim
Silvan (Eng.) Alt. Sylvan. This is used to describe Elves who never made it to Beleriand, but may have stayed in the Vale of Anduin or settled elsewhere. Other non-Elvish words to call these Elves include, Wood-Elves, Woodland Elves and East-Elves.
The Elf Lord who brought Dior the Silmaril; what was going through his head?
@phoenixrisesoncemore wanted to know what about the Green-Elves of Ossiriand and their place in Beren&Lúthien, their relationship with the Silmaril and the perspective of the Elf Lord who brought the Silamril to Dior
It’s done :’D
The Passage in question:
“There came a night of autumn, and when it grew late, one came and smote upon the doors of Menegroth, demanding admittance to the King. He was a lord of the Green-Elves hastening from Ossiriand, and the door-wards brought him to where Dior sat alone in his chamber; and there in silence he gave to the King a coffer, and took his leave.” The Silmarillion, Of the Ruin of Doriath.
Relationship with the Sons of Fëanor
“But the victory of the Elves was Dear-bought. For those of Ossiriand were light-armed, and no match for the Orcs, who were shod with iron and iron-shielded and bore great spears with broad blades; and Denethor was cut off and surrounded upon the hill of Amon Ereb. There he fell and all his nearest kin about him, before the host of Thingol could come to his aid. Bitterly though his fall was avenged, when Thingol came upon the rear of the Orcs and slew them in heaps, his people lamented him ever after and took no king again. After the battle some returned to Ossiriand, and their tidings filled the remnant of their people with great fear, so that thereafter they came never forth in open war, but kept to themselves by wariness and secrecy; and they were called Laiquendi, the Green-elves, because of their raiment of the color of leaves. But many went North and entered the guarded realm of Thingol and were merged with his people.1”
“...And the Orcs took the fortress upon the west slopes of Mount Rerir, and ravaged all of Thargelion, the land of Caranthir; and they defiled Lake Helevorn. Thence they passed over Gelion with fire and terror and came into East Beleriand. Maglor joined Maedhros upon Himring; but Caranthir fled and joined the remnant of his people to the scattered folk of the hunters, Amrod and Amras, and they retreated and passed Ramdal in the south. Upon Amon Ereb they maintained a watch and some strength of war, and they had the aid of the Green-Elves; and the Orcs came not into Ossiriand, nor to Taur-im-Duinath and the wilds of the south.2”
“...and the sons of Fëanor wandered before the wind. Their arms were scattered, and their league broken; and they took to a wild life and woodland life beneath the feet of Ered Lindon, mingling with the Green-Elves of Ossiriand…3”
“The Nelyar [Teleri] were most reluctant to leave their lakeside homes; but they were very cohesive, and very conscious of the separate unity of their Clan (as they continued to be), so that when it became clear that their chieftains Elwe and Olwe were resolved to depart and would have a large following, many of those among them who had at first joined the Avari went over to the Eldar rather than be separated from their kin. The Ñoldor indeed asserted that most of the ‘Teleri’ were at heart Avari, and that only the Eglain*** really regretted being left in Beleriand.” After writing about the Tatyar (Noldor who remained in Middle-Earth) and their bitterness towards the Noldor, Christopher Tolkien writes, “This ill-feeling descended in part from the bitterness of the Debate before the March of the Eldar began, and was no doubt later increased by the mechanisms of Morgoth; but it also throws some light upon the temperment of the Ñoldor in general, and Fëanor in particular, Indeed the Teleri on their side asserted that most of the Ñoldor in Aman itself were in heart Avari, and returned to Middle-Earth when they discovered their mistake; they needed room to quarrel in.11**”
Amon Ereb is where the Green-Elves buried their king and lamented him ever after. During Dagor Bragollach, Ambarussa and Caranthir flee to Amon Ereb, where they "maintained a watch and some strength of war." There are two ways this can be; first, we can ignore the line "had the aid of the Green-Elves" since the Quenta Silmarillion was written in-universe and has been revised in-universe, so you can say that that's not an accurate retelling. You could instead say that since there is a War going on, the Feanorians just built there and the Green-Elves feared the retaliation of Murderers. Following that, even if this were not the case and most of the Green-Elves were understanding after the fact, there is bound to be some dissent or some begrudging feelings from others for building a fortress on their beloved kings grave. The second option is to accept the line and say that the Green-Elves allowed them to build there. This would imply that they have a phenomenally good relationship with the Sons of Fëanor (or at least 4, 6 & 7) to allow them to build on Denethor's grave. Personally, I do not think the first option is liable since the Green-Elves attended the Feast of Reuniting, and Thingol, a known Noldor-Hater, only sent two Elves in his stead. The Sons of Feänor also mingled with the Green-Elves after the Fifth Battle, which if canon is to be believed and that "a stranger might pass through their land from end to end and see none of them4," If the Green-Elves didn't want to mingle, they wouldn't have. The next mention of the Sons of Feänor's location (in the published Silmarillion) is after the Elf Lord brought the Silmaril to Doriath; at this time, they were "gathered again from their wandering." So while it's not *explicit* that both the Sons of Fëanor and the Silmaril were within the borders of Ossiriand at the same time, it is implied. It also seems as though there is some bitterness between the Teleri and Noldor. Though the Lindi* are a subsection of the Teleri, they are (along with the Avari), often an afterthought in writings, so I am unsure if the second quote could apply to the Green-Elves or if C. Tolkien was specifically referring to the Tatyar. Regardless though, it seems to me that the Noldor and Teleri have something in common--they're both Avari at heart and love Middle-Earth. Though the Second Kinslaying takes place after the events asked about, I’m going to touch on it briefly as well. Specifically, how “...[the Teleri] were very cohesive, and very conscious of the separate unity of their Clan (as they continued to be), so that when it became clear that their chieftains Elwe and Olwe were resolved to depart and would have a large following, many of those among them who had at first joined the Avari went over to the Eldar rather than be separated from their kin.” Teleri don’t like to be separate from their families and don’t do so lightly; this, to me, implies a high emphasis on family compared to the other clans. The Sons of Feänor, who they gave safe harbor to and allowed to build on their kings grave, really spit in Green-Elves of Ossiriand’s face when they killed their close kin in Doriath.
Relationship with the Sindar
“But the victory of the Elves was Dear-bought. For those of Ossiriand were light-armed, and no match for the Orcs, who were shod with iron and iron-shielded and bore great spears with broad blades; and Denethor was cut off and surrounded upon the hill of Amon Ereb. There he fell and all his nearest kin about him, before the host of Thingol could come to his aid. Bitterly though his fall was avenged, when Thingol came upon the rear of the Orcs and slew them in heaps, his people lamented him ever after and took no king again. After the battle some returned to Ossiriand, and their tidings filled the remnant of their people with great fear, so that thereafter they came never forth in open war, but kept to themselves by wariness and secrecy; and they were called Laiquendi, the Green-elves, because of their raiment of the color of leaves. But many went North and entered the guarded realm of Thingol and were merged with his people.1”
“...Of those Nandor who took refuge in Doriath after the fall of Denethor is it said; ‘In the event they did not mingle happily with the Teleri of Doriath, and so dwelt mostly in the small land Eglamar, Arthórien under their own chief. Some of them were “darkhearted,” though this did not necessarily appear, except under strain or provocation.’ ‘The chief of the “Guest-elves,” as they were called, was given a permanent place in Thingol’s council…7”
I’m going to paraphrase this next bit by a lot, since it’s a couple pages worth of material11…
Celben: the Sindarin equivalent of Kalaquendi; all Elves other than the Avari and includes the Sindar. It is also equivalent to Eldar (Q.) and Elloi (T.)
Morben: Originally only referred to the Avari, but as other Children became known, it came to mean “Anyone dwelling outside Beleriand, or entering their realm from the outside.” “The first people of this kind to be met were the Nandor...when the Nandor were recognized as kinsfolk of Lindarin origin and speech, they were received into the class of Celbin.” However, later in Note 9 which discusses Eöl and Maeglin, “Some of the Nandor, who were allowed to be Celbin, were not any better,” is written and the Note goes on to discuss Saeros.
“Now word went swiftly among the Elves of Ossiriand that a great host of dwarves bearing gear of war had down out of the mountains and passed over Gelion at the Ford of Stones. These tidings came soon to Beren and Lúthien; and in that time also a messenger came to them out of Doriath telling of what had befallen there. Then Beren arose and left Tol Galen, and summoning to him Dior his son they went north the river Ascar; and with them went many of the Green-Elves of Ossiriand...In that battle by Sarn Athrad Beren fought his last fight, and himself slew the Lord of Nogrod, and wrested from him the Necklace of the Dwarves; but he dying laid his curse upon all the treasure. Then Beren gazed in wonder on the selfsame jewel Fëanor that he has cut from Morgoths iron crown, now shining set amid gold and gems by the cunning of the dwarves; and he washed it clean of blood in the waters of the river. And when all was finished the treasure of Doriath was drowned in the river Ascar, and from that time the river was named anew, Rathlóriel, the Golden Bed…5”
The Green-Elves and the Sindar are both a part of the Olwë’s Host that split off in Middle-Earth, albeit at different times. The Green-Elves had the “Friendship of Thingol,6” and “were welcomed by Thingol as kin long lost that return, and they dwelt in Ossiriand, the Land of Seven Rivers.1” Tolkien also writes that his fall was “bitterly avenged,” so Thingol probably held Denethor himself in high regard. Some Green-Elves even merged with his people in Doriath. However, there is more to this story. “In the event,” is not an often encountered phrase, but “In the event that” is, so myself and others were confused at this wording. As it turns out, the phrase means that after discussing what could’ve been, you’re now discussing what actually happened. “In the end,” “as it happened,” and “as it turned out,” are synonymous with “in the event.8” So this means that the majority of the Green-Elves who migrated to Thingol’s kingdom were unhappy within his kingdom, and though they had a permanent seat on his council, they were also called “Guest-Elves,” which likely alienated them more. I also want to discuss the classes of Calben and Morben; At first, it does seem to follow the published Silmarillion--that all of the Green-Elves were welcomed as kin and subsequently entered into the class of Celben. I don’t think that is the case anymore; I think instead, the ones who merged with Doriath were “allowed” to become Celben and those who returned to Ossiriand remained Morben. It could be, of course, that Green-Elves of Ossiriand are the only ones of the Lindi to hold the title of Celben--the rest of the Lindi throughout Middle-Earth are Morben. Moving on though, the Guest-Elves probably seldom left Doriath and weren’t in much contact with their kin in Ossiriand, so it’s difficult for me to say how this impacted Ossiriand Green-Elves and Sindar’s relationship; it seems that there was a very dichotomous relationship between the two. But! Either way, the Green-Elves in and out of Doriath are kin and while that may have caused some tension--Teleri don’t like to be separated from their family and don’t do so lightly--they are still *kin* and would not take too kindly to their families being slaughtered over a jewel. I think that the Sack of Doriath would be enough “strain or provocation” to bring about their “dark hearted-ness.”
Curses, Dooms and Prophecies in the Legendarium
“Now word went swiftly among the Elves of Ossiriand that a great host of dwarves bearing gear of war had down out of the mountains and passed over Gelion at the Ford of Stones. These tidings came soon to Beren and Lúthien; and in that time also a messenger came to them out of Doriath telling of what had befallen there. Then Beren arose and left Tol Galen, and summoning to him Dior his son they went north the river Ascar; and with them went many of the Green-Elves of Ossiriand...In that battle by Sarn Athrad Beren fought his last fight, and himself slew the Lord of Nogrod, and wrested from him the Necklace of the Dwarves; but he dying laid his curse upon all the treasure. Then Beren gazed in wonder on the selfsame jewel Fëanor that he has cut from Morgoths iron crown, now shining set amid gold and gems by the cunning of the dwarves; and he washed it clean of blood in the waters of the river. And when all was finished the treasure of Doriath was drowned in the river Ascar, and from that time the river was named anew, Rathlóriel, the Golden Bed…5”
I will not write out every curse, doom or prophecy. I am only going to list them. The point of me listing all of these out is to show just how much power these types of things have in the Tolkien Legendarium and even if they are a self-fulfilling prophecy, they tend to come true in some way.
The Doom of Mandos
Mîm cursing Nargothronds treasure and the Nauglamir(in some variations)
The Dead Men of Dunharrow
The Curse of Morgoth; "the shadow of my thought shall lie upon them wherever they go." And the events after Húrins release
Eöl’s curse “...Here you may yet die the same death as I.”
Beleg to Túrin; “If I stayed beside you, love would lead me, not wisdom.”
Melian to Túrin; “There is malice in this sword. The dark heart of the smith still dwells in it. It will not love the hand it serves; neither will it abide with you long.”
Glaurung to Túrin; “...but thou carest not for that Glad may thy father be to learn that he hath such a son; as learn he shall”
Melian to Thingol; “For you have either doomed your daughter, or yourself. And now is Doriath drawn within the fate of a mightier realm.”
Huans Fate
The Lord of Nargothrond cursing the treasures of Doriath and the Nauglamir
There is more, but I think you get the point.
I want to touch on how the River Ascar flows into the River Gelion and "...after Sirion Ulmo loved Gelion above all the waters of the western world.4" In addition to this, the Green-Elves of Ossiriand rely on their rivers, not only for the nourishment water provides but also "lived in the protection of their rivers.7" I also want to point out that Ascar is the most upstream river of Ossiriand. "Why does this matter," you ask, "What does this have to do with curses?" Well…. The meaning of Ascar is "rushing or imperious (moving forcefully or rapidly).10" In addition to the river's name signifying its nature, it's also written that "...[the rivers] fell steeply and very swift from the Mountains of Ered Lindon.9" So there is no way that cursed gold is staying put. If the Green-Elves were upset at having cursed gold in their river, that they rely on for protection, imagine how upset they'd be if there was cursed gold in the Galion, that borders all of their land.
Personally, I think that if it were any other Elf-Lord, we would have had a different story. The Silmarillion has a tragic thing going on where, if a tragedy is prevented, another one would take its place. Here, if it was any other Elf who was in possession of the Silmaril, the Second Kinslaying may have been prevented, but the Silmaril wouldn’t go to Valinor.
The Sindar and Green-Elves seem to have a dichotomous relationship, where the Sindar seem to accept them as kin, but also refer to them as outsiders. The Noldor (specifically the Sons of Fëanor) and the Green-Elves seem to have a better relationship, but there is some old bitterness between the Noldor and Teleri and any good relationship would’ve been destroyed following the Second Kinslaying. But to answer your question, what was going through that Elf Lords head? I think it was something along the lines of "Ah! Cursed Jewelry that has poisoned our river and has been the cause of many deaths, better get this out of here before the Sons of Fëanor or my fellow Green-Elves who like them more than Doriath find me!"
*I don’t like the term Nandor and I refuse to use it unless I have to. It’s derived from the primitive elvish word “ndandō” which means, “one who goes back on his word or decision.” “Primitive elvish” is used by Paul Strack to describe the internal (fictional) evolution of elvish. “Lindi” is what the Green-Elves called themselves.
**I am aware that the quote continues to contrast this with the relations between Sindar, Green-Elves and other Avari elves, but this talks about the second age so I chose to not include it.
***”The Forsaken.” The Sindar named themselves this, but it only refers to Sindar who wanted to go to Aman but arrived late or looked for Elwë for too long. Círdan is their Lord and they are the most friendly towards the Noldor.
Note: Who knew superscript doesn’t work on tumblr? I’m not surprised, but sorry for numbers interrupting the reading
'After the battle some returned to Ossiriand, and their tidings filled the remnants of their people with great fear, so that thereafter they never came forth in open war, but kept themselves in wariness and secrecy; and they were called the Laiquendi, the Green-elves, because of their raiment of the colour of leaves.' - Of the Sindar, The Silmarillion.
Now the Green-elves of Ossiriand were troubled by the coming of Men, and when they heard that a lord of the Eldar from over the Sea was among them they sent messengers to Felagund. 'Lord,' they said, 'if you have power over these newcomers, bid them return by the ways that they came, or else to go forward. For we desire no strangers in this land to break the peace in which we live. And these folk are hewers of trees and hunters of beasts; therefore we are their unfriends, and if they will not depart we shall afflict them in all ways that we can.'
J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion, p.142 (Of the Coming of Men into the West)
In Ossiriand dwelt the Green-elves, in the protection of their rivers; for after Sirion Ulmo loved Gelion above all the waters of the western world. The Woodcraft of the Elves of Ossiriand was such that a stranger might pass through their land from end to end and see none of them. They were clad in green in spring and summer, and the sound of their singing could be heard even across the waters of Gelion; wherefore the Noldor named that country Lindon, the land of music, and the mountains beyond they named Ered Lindon, for they first saw them from Ossiriand.
J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion, p.123 (Of Beleriand and its Realms).
