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Hi, do you know the quote in the book which states Alicent was not killed because they feared the small folk's reaction?

Hi anon 💚

Yes, this is what's mentioned in Fire & Blood:

I'm guessing that Alicent's life was spared because she was beloved by the smallfolk and devoted to the Seven, so her execution might have appeared sacrilegious if not unlawful to those who loved her and still sympathized with her.

#thanks for the ask #hotd #house of the dragon #alicent hightower #fire and blood #f&b #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #greenqueenhightower #team green #the greens #greenqueenasks #grrm

On the Mahidevran/Alicent similarities I think she’s so much like book!Alicent too, like she is Alicent!!!

Art by Douglas Wheatley

You are spot on! I think she parallels show!Alicent too.

(1) Both Mahidevran and Alicent have a very complicated and self-sacrificing but equally co-dependent relationship with their son(s). They both give birth to their grief and pain and trauma and place all their hopes and dreams on them. Mahidevran doesn't exist without Mustafa, and we see that her life comes to mean very little when he is executed. In a similar way, Alicent lives for Aegon (I have this theory that l've analyzed before of how Aegon is her favorite child and the one who mirrors her the most) and tries everything within her power to see him crowned. Similarly, Mahidevran schemes and conspires with Ibrahim and her allies to see Mustafa ascend the throne

(2) Character-wise, Mahidevran plays by the rules, just like Alicent. She is Valide's favorite, she is trained by her, she is Hatice's companion, an overall good Muslim girl married to the Sultan, tasked with giving him sons. Alicent is a devout follower of the Seven, she's trained by her father to always heed his counsel, her motto is duty and sacrifice, and she is married off to Viserys and tasked with birthing the long-awaited male Targaryen heirs the realm needs. Neither of them is loved by their husbands: they are always the "second choice," the "spare wife" if you will, who is tolerated in the harem or accepted in marriage because of necessity.

(3) They are both sidelined and defied by a woman who dares challenge the norms: Hürrem and Rhaenyra, respectively. In trying to secure their position and that of their sons and to survive in the patriarchal society they live in, which allows limited political freedom, they become callous and ruthless. Show!Mahidevran orders the assassination of Sehzade Mehmet, and book!Alicent tortures and murders Blood, and is overall more unhinged than show!Alicent.

(4) In the end, they both lose political ground and support and become more and more isolated. They lose their children, they lose their allies, their titles, their friends, and spend their final years destitute and in misery, publicly humiliated and personally defeated.

Your Margaret Beaufort and Alicent Hightower post is perfect! They parallel each other greatly. I also think her relationship with Criston in F&B is like Margaret with Jasper Tudor.

Jasper Tudor was the uncle of Henry VII, an important member of Tudor faction like Criston was of Targtowers. Criston was the kingmaker and a trusted confidant of the greens. Maggy and Jasper in the white princess mirror book Alicent and Criston. Mutual respect and courtly love bound by common enemy and goal. And they both succeeded albeit for a short time.

Maggy and Jasper walked so Alicole could run!

Heyyy thanks so much! I'm glad you liked it 💚

I think you are right about Criston and Alicent mirroring Jasper and Margaret's relationship in the book, but also in the show. I still can't get over how many times Margaret and Jasper referred to Henry VII as "our son" and "our child" in The White Queen/The White Princess. It's insane that Henry VII saw Jasper as his real father, the only father he'd ever known who took care of him and taught him everything he needed to know to be King. All these scenes are reminiscent of Criston training Aegon and Aemond with the sword, all his "fatherly" moments when looking for Aegon all over KL with Aemond in tow, his overprotectiveness over Alicent and the kids at Driftmark, standing beside Aegon at his coronation, and then how he blames himself for B&C in S2 and how he goes after a burned Aegon to return all that's left of him back to Alicent. Criston is the father of Alicent's kids because he was there to see them grow up, he spent time with them, bonded with them, and undoubtedly, they look up to him as a father figure.

And then there's Henry's side-eye and his hostility towards his mother Margaret after he realizes that she and his uncle Jasper harbor feelings for each other. He openly confronts her about it, reminds her that she is married, and then marries Jasper off to Catherine Woodville to keep both of them in check and spite his mom. It is later revealed that Margaret and Jasper had a fling in the past and remained secretive about it for decades, and Criston and Alicent secretly pursue their relationship in S2. I mean, if ever Aegon, or Aemond (or maybe Daeron) find out about it, their reaction could be similar to Henry's (which will make the parallels all the more juicy).

And yes, both couples rely on each other to further advance their political goals and safeguard the position of their "son" as a rightful King and ruler. The angst of it all, the courtly romance of Jasper worshipping Margaret as the most devout, clean, pure, Christian woman he's ever met and Criston calling Alicent his beacon, his literal guardian angel who saved his life and gave it a whole new meaning, make them so similar and now I will not stop thinking about them as mirrors of each other.

why do you think traditional feminine women get more hate in AsoIaF fandom. is it just bigotry or more? there are varied examples: elia, sansa, alicent, catelyn, even helaena all of them are hated or disliked even by the women in the fandom who ought to atleast try to understand it was not easy for them. they were also trying to survive and navigate this world. they were not flaw-less, they fumbled, they made mistakes, they were selfish, ruthless, vindictive ect but most of the times they were trying to survive.

also the argument that they perpetuate patriarchy is so tone deaf in AsoIaF context?? every woman in-universe perpetuated patriarchy in some way or other because they were raised that way and had little choice. women like visenya, alyssa, even alysanne, rhaenyra, cersei, lyanna perpetuated the existing westerosi norms knowingly or unknowingly, and sometimes went beyond.

not every woman can wield sword and fight or WANT TO wield a sword, wear pants or fight. if women like sansa are interested in feminine pursuits what is wrong with that? if women like alicent are inclined to be female politicians without lifting a weapon, whats wrong with that? if women like catelyn can verbally and physically defend their family and still be soft and motherly whats wrong in that? if women like elia do their duties with diligence and delicacy, and expect loyalty and protection in return, whats wrong with that? if women like naerys and rhaella were sexually abused by their husbands IS THE FAULT WITH THEM?? it was not easy being a feminine woman in this world either. as the lady of a house, they had hundreds of things to oversee. to undermine that as women because they didnt rebel for the sake of it, is so wrong on so many levels.

Hi anon💚

You are right, traditional feminine women in media seldom get any recognition or sympathy and understanding from the viewers. I think it has to do with the prevalence of "girlboss" characters in media who at times stretch the norms to an unrealistic degree. There's nothing wrong with girlboss characters, as there shouldn't be anything wrong with traditional feminine women. Representation matters, context matters, how well a character is built and developed also matters.

I have a personal theory as to why women like Alicent are often misunderstood and either victimized or villainized by viewers, without being allowed any space to just be. Sadly, it's very difficult for a lot of "modern" minds to shake away the misogyny that's shaped their worldviews growing up. Such misogyny dictates that traditional women are "dumb" because they like girly stuff for example, or they suck at male fields because they like to do their hair and nails every month, or because they menstruate. What I'm saying is, a lot of negative stereotypes about traditionally feminine women still exist, and unfortunately they still influence and predispose the viewers' opinions when a character who fits those stereotypes appears on screen. It's easier to call a woman a "whore," a "terrible mother," a "monster," a "villain," a "witch," "evil," "dumb," a "horrible driver," a "horrible person," "blonde=stupid," etc and you don't get the same insults hurled at men, because the whole world, irrespective of culture or time period, has been calling women as such. Women have been accused of all sorts of failings regardless of whether they were traditional, feminine, pretty, ugly, or not. It's a fact that women are more easily to put the blame on than men, and have proven to historically accept that blame more easily than men, since they had limited freedom and power to choose otherwise.

It makes sense, therefore, for a female character who defies all norms to be celebrated and praised when she appears in media, like Rhaenyra. She stands against her society's conventions, she exercises free will, bends the rules, and acts like a man would in that society. Such behavior is unexpected and therefore it attracts attention and admiration. What often happens, though, is that viewers get so fixated on the "uniqueness" and "badassery" of her character that don't question anything else. Her motivations, her personality, the way she exercises her authority, her female mind. In the end, without realizing it, they can easily get caught up in celebrating a behavior that would be rather off-putting if it was coming from a man within that same society.

And in so doing, the "other woman," the more traditionally feminine one, is again neglected. Sidelined and marginalized, subjected to the same treatment that the viewers are so averse towards when it comes to female representation. By not acknowledging her struggles, the social conventions she has to abide by, the motivations and fears behind her actions, by again not being able to appreciate her female mind, they become her oppressors—just like the men who historically policed female bodies and hated and abused women by their exercise of authority and control over them.

So what I'm saying is, sadly, in every fandom women are never loved for being just women. This will hurt a lot of Rhaenyra's fans to hear (women included), but Rhaenyra is more loved and celebrated for closely resembling a man rather than challenging stereotypes of womanhood, and Alicent is hated and villainized just because she closely resembles a traditional woman.

parallel ━ if alicent is compared to historical figures, anne boleyn comparison is very common but also margaret beaufort for her older version

Hi anon 💚

Thanks for suggesting the Anne Boleyn parallel. I've already talked about Margaret Beaufort here. I can also see how historical Anne Boleyn parallels Alicent (especially her book version).

(1) Both women were introduced to court at a young age and were described as intelligent girls who were meant to be useful to powerful men. Alicent is brought to KL and into Viserys' chambers by her father, Otto, and Anne is brought into Henry's orbit by her father, Thomas, while seeking favor for his family. Both Otto and Thomas prompt their daughters to essentially catch the King's eye.

(2) Alicent and Anne both internalized the systems that oppressed them. Anne and Alicent were devoutly religious, morally idealistic in their youth, and both ultimately compromised their beliefs to survive within patriarchal courts. Alicent is a follower of the Seven who, as she grows older, lives less and less by religious governance and more by political necessity, and Anne starts off as a reformist Catholic who later adopts some of Henry's beliefs and ideas.

(3) Both Alicent and Anne were defined by their attempts to navigate a world that only saw them as valuable through their proximity to kings and sons. Viserys married Alicent to have the sons that Aemma couldn't give him, and Henry married Anne to have the sons that he couldn't with Catherine. Eventually, both became mothers to potential heirs: Anne to Elizabeth, and Alicent to Aegon. They both weaponized their motherhood when they had to, to protect the only legacy they had: their children. They fought for their children and were vilified for doing so. Anne is remembered as the "whore" queen who might or might not have committed adultery, all her other accomplishments erased, while book!Alicent is cold and power-hungry and accused of instigating the Dance of the Dragons in the first place.

(4) They both clung to their belief that if they did their duty, if they followed the rules, if they were clever and loyal and useful enough, the system would reward them, only for the system they once upheld and supported to turn on them. Both ended up wielding more influence than anyone expected or wanted them to have, which caused them to become threatening and dangerous, thus eligible for elimination. Anne Boleyn was executed for adultery and treason, and Alicent was imprisoned for life after seeing the deaths of all her children in their pursuit of the Throne.

(5) More importantly, contemporary or subsequent historiography painted them in a negative light, even though they were clearly fighters and survivors who did all they could in an era that allowed them limited political freedom.

#there may be more parallels but these are all I could think of for now #thanks for suggesting this #anne boleyn #alicent hightower #hotd parallels #the tudors #house of the dragon #hotd #hotd meta #hotd analysis #hotd thoughts #greenqueenhightower #greenqueenasks #asoiaf thoughts #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #pro anne boleyn #pro alicent hightower

after reading your daeron and daemon theory I started thinking about this and I am either insane or there is something deeply unhinged and weirdly compelling about daemon x alicent because think about it, she is the woman who spent her whole life trying to suppress desire and control chaos… paired with the man who is chaos and refuses to be controlled... they would ruin each other in slow motion with even just eye contact. imagine the tension!! daemon hates what she represents, duty, the seven, etc, but he'd still be drawn to her like a moth to a flame and she to him bc like you said he's her teenage fantasy. "burn me, Your Grace", etc. they wouldn't even need to kiss. just one scene with them standing three inches apart, not touching, not breathing in season 3, just looking at each other and I'd start screaming in fourteen languages.

I'm sick. I need help.

This is a safe daemicent space 💚

I hear you, anon, I see the vision. Although not a massive fan, there's something deeply juicy about the idea of Daemon and Alicent, the barely contained fury between them, the holy vs. profane dynamic, the fact that they would absolutely not survive each other, the tension of them as a ship. They'd never last together, which arguably makes it hotter for daemicent fans I guess.

Realistically? It's very unlikely the show will go there. As much as the writers can have fun with exploring morally messy relationships, Daemon and Alicent are so ideologically opposed that any kind of canon romance would require a massive reworking of their characters and the timeline. The same applies to the "Daeron-or-Aemond-is-Daemon's-son" theories. They are fun to speculate about, but there's nothing in the show that seriously supports them (so far at least). I am ok with fanfic logic, which is valid and I enjoy theorizing about some hints and potential clues we've had so far, but seeing it become canon is doubtful. It is intriguing to imagine the fallout of their dynamic in fics or AUs though.

So yes, let's acknowledge the chaos, live in the mess for a bit, maybe read a fic or two where they ruin each other in the most poetic way possible, and then return to our regularly scheduled doom for S3. Would I be mad if the "Daeron-or-Aemond-is-Daemon's-son" theories turn out to be true in S3, or Alicent is revealed to have had a fling with Daemon? No, absolutely not, because I take this show as it comes, and if it is fanfiction that the writers have in store for us in S3, heck, I don't mind. God bless unhinged ships: they keep the fandom spicy, and daemicent for me would be welcome after the mess of S2 alicole and the probable lack of S3 larycent. Plus Matt and Olivia would absolutely devour those scenes together.

favorite alicent dress this season

This darker teal one!

I might be reading too much into it, but it makes me think of the more vulnerable and yet the most empowered side of Alicent: she’s drawing comfort and resolve from her mother’s colors, blending the Florent topaz with the Hightower emerald making a fashion statement mid-season that betrays her realization of the flawed world she’s upheld so far and foreshadows her independence and long-awaited self-discovery in S2 (those who get it, get it).