I have always wondered where people get their Lilith keywords from on this app, since there are four Liliths (that I am aware of now) and they all have seemingly different keywords but there is no source linked, ever. Yes I have a problem with that since we should all be on the same page and have at least ONE primary source and not just pull all of the information from "personal experience" or anything of that nature. We don't do this for someones Venus for example because we can look back at mythology and proceed from there, same should be applied for the Liliths, which is essentially why I am making this series and starting with the h58 Waldemath Moon.
Since we have several Liliths we can not just pull aspects from her mythos and apply it randomly to wherever it makes sense or because so and so said it should be done that way, we have to look at the history behind how the specific asteroid was discovered as well and somehow merge those together accordingly.
The story of the h58 is quite interesting and in my opinion gives a bunch of interesting keywords. The astronomer who claimed to have discovered the h58 Moon is Dr. Georg Wilhelm Waltemath, he called it "the second Moon". His hypothesis for why such a satellite exists is because he thought something was gravitationally affecting the Moon's orbit. He gave detailed information into it which you can read here, and he "claimed that it was not normally visible with the naked eye but predicted it would be visible between 2 and 4 February 1898. Twelve claims were made to have seen it at that time but were later proven fraudulent or mistaken by astronomers W. Winkler and Baron Ivo von Benko who had been monitoring the area at the time. Waltemath also claimed that the moon had been sighted previously by Adolphus Greely in Greenland on 24 October 1881 and by painter and personal friend, C. Waller in Munich on 16 February 1897."
Later on in 1918, astrologer Walter Gornold also known as "Sepharial" claimed to have confirmed the existence of Waltemath's moon and he named it "Lilith" after Lilith from the jewish legend. He claimed it was a "dark" moon, invisible for most of the time.
Now that we have the backstory down so to speak, and we can see it's based on a primary source we can start with the keywords.
Waldemath Moon/ Dark Moon Lilith keywords: The Hidden, The Unseen, The Unconscious, Phantoms, Parts Of You That Only Some People See, Unseen But Powerful Raw Forces, Undiscovered Parts Of The Self, Where No One Believes Us, Parts Of Yourself You Don't Believe Exist, Your Unlocked Potential But Also Worst Darkest Shadow, A Part Of You That Has Been So Shunned You Are Consciously Not Aware Of It, Etc.
I believe this could also be the unseen parts of Lilith herself, parts of her mythos that has been lost or information that is not mainstream. If you look deeper into this you might find more interesting keywords to have for the h58.
I will make posts with h58 in each sign in the future so stay tuned for that. Thank you for reading, if you have your own keywords to add based on what you have learned please comment them I would love to see it.
Is it possible to have multiple black moon Lilith in your birth chart? Just curious because I have black moon Lilith in 7th and 8th house 🙂
Hi! I don't think so, as it can only be in one place at a time. Is it possible you're talking about two different liliths?
There are five main ones:
Asteroid Lilith 1181
Black Moon (Mean) Lilith h12
Osculating (True) Lilith h13
Dark Moon (Waldemath) Lilith h58
Interpolated Lilith (Lunar Apogee) h21
Asteroid lilith is the only lilith placement with a physical body, the others are only theoretical points with differences in calculations.
Black moon and Asteroid Lilith are probably the two most common ones and since they're all technically 'lilith' they often get confused! To figure out which ones are showing on your chart, look at the catalogue number it's under (1181, h12, h13, h58, h21).
In terms of which one is more important/accurate, I am not sure... Many people have different opinions and there's a lot of general disagreement and lack of consensus. I'd suggest looking at each one and seeing which one sounds more accurate to you personally.
Hello! It depends honestly on what you’re looking at in your chart. Each Lilith has a different meaning. Each Lilith encompasses a certain meaning.
H13 or “True Black Moon Lilith” (Osculating) and H21 or “Mean Black Moon Lilith”: These typically deal with the sexual empowerment traits of Lilith. It also deals with temptation, vengeance, things that are forbidden, seduction, psychedelic drugs, destruction, glamour, charisma, hypnotism, altered state, radical femininity, and obsession. This Lilith deals with our obsessions and our addictions. It also deals with our subconscious and our sexual energy. As well as our wants and needs. H21 is the most commonly used Lilith.
Asteroid Lilith or 1181: This Lilith is the only tangible celestial object, and people typically have an easier time connecting to this one. This asteroid deals with refusal, non-compromise, repressed anger, personal independence, fight or flight, involvement in freedom movements, and fleeing one’s oppressor.
H58 or Dark Moon Lilith: This Lilith deals with internal conflict, the need to meet our demons, our shadow selves, trauma, fantasies of rage and retaliation, working through feelings of shame, and distorted thinking. It’s associated with our darkest and lowest vibrations and how we act during our worst times.
So I’d say use the one that you connect to the most or the one that you personally want to look into in regards to those traits. If you connect more to your H58 Lilith than your Asteroid Lilith then use that. I personally use all of them, but that’s your decision. Hope this helps!
Hey, can you give out some insight about h58 waldemarth moon in Pisces and in 1st house? How would it manifest?
Thank you :)
Waldemath (h58)
Waldemath (H58) is also known as "Waldemath Moon" and "Dark Moon Lilith". The Dark Moon Lilith is not a physical object like asteroid Lilith, nor a calculated point in the sky like Black Moon Lilith. It's a hypothetical and still unproven second satellite of the earth. Because it's a hypothetical celestial body/object, some astrologers don't use it—as there are other points and objects that are validated and may produce a similar effect.
Dark Moon Lilith is the exile of Lilith. She fled to the arid desert next to the Red Sea, after she ran away from the oppressive nature of the Garden of Eden (according to the myth). Dark Moon Lilith represents this desert, a place that is admittedly beautiful and calm—but eerily quiet, and without flora or fauna or society, there is nothing but the mind to distract oneself. Dark Moon Lilith represents this place of self-discovery and catharsis. The Waldemarth represents where we can seek this catharsis, sometimes even physically. It is retrospection and finding the roots of your pain, rather than projection—it is looking within and making epiphanies. Oftentimes, it can indicate denials that life throws at us.
In the signs:
Aries: You go about finding healing in an energetic and driven way. You find epiphanies and healing in waves and bursts, seemingly at random. You may hold a lot of anger and frustration within you, and can be coiled tight like a string. In order to find healing, you may have to look at exercise or energetic forms of release (chanting, mantras, yoga, etc.).
Taurus: You go about finding healing in a more systematic and grounded way. You go forth in life trying to better yourself constantly and consistently, little bits at a time.
Gemini: You find healing through mental stimulation. You may find it helpful to analyze your issues and dissect them in order to find the most favourable plan of action. This works well with intellectual issues, but may leave you out of control and annoyed when it comes to emotional issues.
Cancer: You find healing in a very emotional way. It can be very relieving for you to just have a crying session when you're feeling down or upset. You can find a lot of healing here when you learn to comfort yourself and cut yourself some slack. It could also be valuable for you to work on your assertiveness, especially if this is already an issue in your life.
Leo: You find healing through the fruit of your labor. Usually, this is something creative—but not necessarily. It could be a piece of art, but also a manuscript. You find a lot of epiphanies when you're able to express yourself authentically and creatively. You may find that you learn more about yourself when you life forces you to be on the forefront and you have to be the "main character" and take the reigns.
Virgo: You find healing in a very systemtic and planned route. You may have your goals written out, or have a certain idea of steps you want to take to reach your desired result. You can find a lot of healing in the process of detaching from your outcomes, and realizing that sometimes you make no mistakes and the result is still undesirable.
Libra: You find healing through peace. Really, making peace with things and finding the (to you) appropriate way to deal with them is the way to go for you. You may enjoy helping other people, and they can in turn help you with your issues.
Scorpio: You find healing head-on. It can be hard for you to find catharsis, and it may be a confusing subject for you to take on at times. It comes in waves, and sometimes you may find it more desirable to just go under. However, these dark spots in your life tend to be the most transformative and powerful.
Sagittarius: You find healing through self-discovery and learning new things. Reforming your belief systems, educating yourself and unlearning old patterns and habits is what helps you the most.
Capricorn: You find healing through your work and social status. You may find your work very fulfilling. Socially speaking, it is very rewarding for you when people show respect.
Aquarius: You find healing in your own way. Usually this comes through friends and acquaintances, realizations of society and your role in it can be very painful but also satisfying.
Pisces: You tend to find healing on your own. Retreats, sleep and daydreaming are a very important part of your healing process. You may find that your dreams are very meaningful, and you realize a lot about yourself when you 'escape'.
In the houses:
1st: Can signify issues (congenital, often) with the physical body. It can show issues with weight. It can also signify identity problems, such as imposter syndrome and the inability or struggle with seperating different parts of your identity. It can, for example, be difficult to seperate your work life from your personal life. People judge you for your physical appearance or for the first impression you left behind. It can be hard for you to come across people who really want to get know you and aren't just superficially interested or intrigued by you. Catharsis and epiphanies for you can be found in physical transformation (where possible) such as exercise and caring for your body. Alternatively, you can find it through working on your self-image.
2nd: Signifies issues with (personal) finance, whether that is poverty or extreme wealth. You tend to have a turbulent relationship with your possessions and money, you often flip-flop between both ends of the extremes within your life. In turn, you may have issues with basing your own personal value as a human being on your external materials or wealth. Which causes you to feel very up-and-down about yourself, at your very core. This is also where you can find a lot of healing and realisations. Value is a theme that will play a big role in your life, figuring out what is valuable and..what makes someone, or something, valuable. And most important of all: Are you a person who is worthy? Waldemath here can also show issues surrounding food and weight.
3rd: Bullying or ostracism by your community or school. This can include teachers as well as classmates. Particularly from elementary-high school, this treatment would have been prominent and caused you to feel misunderstood or stupid. This may even go as far as holding a grudge against the whole educational system in general. The roots of your pain could very well lie in these days at school, or the feelings you were left with because of it. Additionally, issues with anxiety and smarts may have been prominent. You are likely better with words than you give yourself credit for, and particularly with writing you may be very inspiring to others. It could be that you'll find more friends and find your own type of friendship outside of your daily routine or the norm. This can include online friends, or finding friends outside of your hometown or even country. Catharsis can very well be found through writing, communication and finding your own place in society, perhaps outside of your regular community.
4th: Can signify an absent father figure. You may be able to find healing within your family, if this is not the case, then healing and catharsis is often found through figuring out your childhood issues. Healing in this aspect can make you feel more comfortable with your self and more at home in your own skin. Going back to your roots and ancestral land may be very healing for you.
5th: Signifies a denial of fun—for some reason, these individuals tend to have lives where it's hard for them to have fun. This could be due to a variety of reasons, such as chronic illness. Additionally, it's common for these people not to want or be able to have children. Alternatively, it can show that the very place you find healing and catharsis is with your own children. It can, at times, show scandals and controversy—particularly among those those in the entertainment business.
6th: Lilith here can signify that illness is a common theme obstructing your life, maybe not even of yourself, but it's just a theme you have to deal with a lot. This brings a lot of duty and obligation upon your shoulders, which is a lot to carry. At times, you can feel very unfortunate because you have so many burdens to carry. Catharsis may be found through transformative periods of sickness surrounding your life, often these periods are painful—but bring a lot of epiphanies. You may find yourself in the hospital one day, only to realize that the way you're living your life is not the way you want to continue living it. You will also find a lot of comfort around animals, particularly pets and small animals.
7th: Can signify issues with people who will openly obstruct you, such as colleagues or rivals. Additionally, it can show turbulent romantic relationships and damaged beliefs about what love and affection is and should be. It can also show a turbulent relationship with business partners. I've also seen this represent itself as people-pleasing and being too agreeable and self-sacrificing. While often these intentions are pure-hearted, it comes at the cost of oneself and you can be betrayed. The way you come across is usually very positive and catharsis can come when someone really tries to get to know you—and you feel really connected to someone. This doesn't have to be a romantic partner, but this connection could make you realize a lot of things. Other people you're in a relationship with can easily become a mirror for you. Don't forget that missing someone is because you lost whatever you have, and now you have to mourn that loss.
8th: This manifestation of DML shows epiphanies and catharis surrounding themes of death and loss. Death is a theme in our lives that often brings many heavy emotions, and for you, there is a lot pain in particular here. But thus also a lot of healing to be found. This place is painful to explore, and it's miserable to dig here—there is little beauty to be found and it's terrifying. And yet, it's some of the most gratifying work you have to do. You have to let it out, you can't let it continue to eat at you. Alternatively, Lilith here will exaserbate your fears and phobias. For some of you, this is a matter you'll have to face head-on. For others, this is a matter where you have to admit to yourself that you can't do it alone and need help or need to admit to yourself that you can't do this.
9th: Here, Waldemarth can show issues with religion and higher education. It can signify ostracism by your personal religious community or community at college. It often comes paired with very damaging beliefs about yourself and the world, and your catharis lies exactly here. Reforming old beliefs, finding new education and a religion or belief system that resonates with you can be extremely healing. At times, this is another religion, a new course or college. But other times, this is recognizing that you don't believe in religion and that that is okay. There is a lot of peace to be made with yourself, and yourself within the concept of "who you are in this world". It can be a confusing journey for you to figure out where you belong in the grand scheme of the world. You have the ability to teach people new things and find happiness in the knowledge that you came from a broken place, transformed, and choose to bring light instead. You may find a lot of healing in sacred places.
10th: Can signify an absent mother figure. Additionally, it can signify a difficult relationship with your employer or boss. At times, it shows someone who finds it hard to keep up a respectable image. It may be difficult for you to show sides of yourself that don't fit with your ideal self. It can be hard to show negative emotion and really be vulnerable for you, especially because you may have been hurt doing this before. However, this is where catharsis lies. It's only logical that you close yourself off after you've been vulnerable with someone only to get hurt, especially it happened more than once. However, you can't guarantee it will happen again—and you can't guarantee it won't. It's risky, but trust your abilities at damage control. It won't end you, and if it does take a positive turn and they don't hurt you then it will be extremely cathartic. Catharsis can also be found in your public image, especially when people show how much they respect and idolize you and what you do.
11th: You have a lot of pain surrounding friendship and society. You may feel the pain of society weighing upon your shoulders and feel like you have to fix the world and everything in it. But this task is too big for you to handle, especially alone. There can be a lot of healing found within friendships, even though it may be the same place you got hurt. Find new people, new groups, find change and let it wash over you. New people can give you hope and faith again, which is something you may desperately need. Amongst others and in social places, you may find that you're particularly innovative and great at bouncing ideas off of other people.
12th: Most of your self-discovery and epiphanies come from the lowest points in your life. Your experience may be that after your rock bottom moments you have completely transformed as a human being. Your "arid desert" so to say, is not a comfortable, plushy cushion—but more like a torturous place where you don't always come out unscathed. While you learn a lot about yourself in these dark moments, it is not always positive and your mind may trick you into believing very negative things about yourself which then cling to you for a long time and become a part of your core identity. You may feel held back in life due to unknown forces, but these hidden enemies you have to fight could very well be your own core beliefs and hidden mantra. It can be hard to stay resilient and keep pushing when you have the weight of the world holding you back, and you may feel like you have to retreat often in order to recharge. Catharsis can very well be found during these retreats, and at times you'll have to physically retreat and be away from society in order to move forward.
Hello! I love your blog. It's quite interesting. I love the lilith series. I had a question about lilith tho. What are the various types of lilith, and what does each represent? Also, when someone says simply 'lilith' , which one of the various liliths does that person refer to?
Thank you in advance. Hope you are having a nice day. 💕
hi beautiful 🤍
thank you for your amazing question! i have wanted to help clarify this for some time now haha,
Various types of Lilith
♟ in Astrology ♟
so there are 4 lilith in total, the asteroid lilith 1181, dark moon lilith h58 [waldemath lilith] , black moon lilith mean h21 and black moon lilith true h13 [osculating bml].
Since asteroid Lilith is practically the only tangible celestial object thats associated to Lilith herself (its one of the many asteroids between mars and jupiter:), a lot of individuals imo will have an easier time connecting to their lilith 1181.
here are some of the themes of asteroid lilith:
refusal, non-submittal, non-compromise, fleeing one’s oppressor, fight-or-flight moments, standing up to power dynamics, active/vocal involvement in freedom movements, collective anger and rage, feminine rage associated with patriarchal suppression, the resulting emotional-physical-psychic ramifications of rape culture, sexual anger associated with sexual repression, the resulting dynamics from unsatisfying or hurtful sexual encounters, the wild, volatile sexual nature of women that finds little expression in modern patriarchal society, claiming one’s spiritual connection to a higher power on one’s own terms (as Lilith did when she pronounced the ineffable name of God), a man’s raging inner anima, preferring self-exile to self-editing (even to our detriment), uncontainable rage that isolates.
As for Dark Moon Lilith, it can describe what we need to do and where we need to reach to let go of our issues and burden. I notice that most of the time we're looking to Dark Moon Lilith to understand more about our trauma and pain, the repressed thoughts we've been hiding behind the scenes.
here are some themes for dark moon lilith h58:
internal conflict, deeply-rooted psychic pains and wounds in need of purging, unconscious indulgence of shadow material, the need to meet one’s demons, removing one’s self from society to lick wounds and find healing, distorted thinking, fantasies of rage, revenge, and retaliation, being overpowered by the toxic subconscious, the need to sit with pain and see it for what it is, working through feelings of shame and indignation, one’s experience of the Terrible Mother, the experience of the brutal, dead places within us and others.
For True and Mean BML, Mean Black Moon Lilith is so far the more popular of the two and you can find them almost anywhere, highly referred to by the mainstream! a lot of astrologers see mean bml as the suppressed, stifled, more controlled version of true l haha and to me, successfully connecting with one's Black Moon Lilith means that one must essentially make peace with issues regarding life, death, and rebirth.
themes surrounding black moon lilith:
radical, wild femininity that radiates or emanates from deep within, femininity as an emanation and not a projection that seeks to please, ruthless self-individuation, fantastically embodying the lunar/non-linear mentality, conscious and embodied power, sex as an act of divine creation, comfort in the state of ecstatic-orgasmic being, the body as a source of infinite wisdom and grace, graceful acceptance of what no longer serves us, achieving the sacred inner marriage of anima and animus/the feminine and the masculine, intuitive connection to our creative/sexual processes and their wild nature, swift identification of falsehoods in ourself and others, the ability to cut away at the falsehoods until all that remains is the essential, core, wild self – nothing more, nothing less.
As for my Lilith series, I really believe that while I myself work mainly with Black Moon Lilith, I try my best to regard to as many themes of other Lilith as possible and
You guys should feel free to relate to my post for all of your Lilith.
Since while I do not center on one theme or another, ie: only talk abt sexual of Lilith or abt one's trauma relating to Lilith,etc..
I think it would be great for you guys to use my work as a friendly notes to further understand your darker side:) For example, if you have asteroid lilith in the 11H and you truly relate to my post on their activists and indifferent mindset but you also relate strongly to your dark moon lilith in the 4H on your wounded childhood, that would make perfect sense🖤
Thank you for your amazing question love,
here are some articles written by well-known astrologers to help you even more<3
thank you straightwoo's for providing amazing lilith's context!
By Kate Kelland LONDON (Reuters) - An antibiotic-resistant superbug strain of typhoid fever has spread globally, driven by a single family of the bacteria, called H58, according to the findings
