hitting up your inbox. here's a question for you: since you've written about tv from a lot of different periods, how would you describe the difference between 90s shows like the x-files or buffy (or even early 00s shows like alias) and stuff made more recently? i feel like "is one better than the other" is kind of a pointless question, but are there things you think each era is better at? worse at? basically just interested in your thoughts on how tv storytelling has changed in the last 30 years
oh wow. I’m sure I’d have a better view of this if I’d been in this industry longer; my sample size from the ‘90s and early ‘00s is small – and more personalized to me – compared to how many recent shows I watch/have watched. that’s my disclaimer. the rest is below the cut because I went long.
overall… it’s hard to generalize about TV now because there’s so much of it. but I think it’s a shame we’ve fallen out of love with the procedural! now they’re mostly overlooked (by critics) and mostly formulaic, which is too bad because a good case/monster-of-the-week show can go anywhere. it’s much easier for procedurals to try on different tones or experiment with form (no dialogue, musical, black and white, etc). and the best ones usually find tension in the idea that resolution is possible: the x-files and buffy both use the monster-of-the-week structure to emphasize how open ended their fights are. one of my favorite new shows this season was evil on cbs because it’s a procedural that works with the format in order to push boundaries. I’d love to see more of that. bring back procedurals that feel fresh!
but as much as I hate the trend of showrunners trying to turn everything into a “10-hour movie” (TV needs episodic structure!) obviously it’s good that we’ve got more serialized storytelling. and yes that’s The Legacy of The Sopranos, but it’s also streaming making it easier for people to catch up on what they missed. we’re at a point where even comedy can be really experimental and long-form; the good place could not have happened a decade ago. I’m glad TV trusts audiences to be smarter now. I just don’t think it’s an accident that the showrunners who are best at serialized storytelling (vince gilligan, damon lindelof, mike schur) have experience writing for procedurals (or standard sitcoms). episodes matter.
peak tv is great because even though there’s still a lot further to go, there are so many more shows now written by diverse voices, featuring diverse casts, telling stories that haven’t been on TV before. but at the same time it’s harder for those shows to find audiences and stick around, and you can see how it makes them less patient with storytelling if they’re on the bubble. the streaming model doesn’t help since apparently there’s less incentive to keep shows around past three seasons. TV shows just don’t last as long anymore. which can be for the best (watchmen was perfect as it was), but at the same time one of the things that sets TV apart as a medium is the time you get with the characters. we watched buffy and scully grow up. and I love the sort of rambling quality of a long-running show and the way the writers are forced to work around real life. I think that’s interesting! (because, again, most stories in real life don’t end neatly.) I don’t want to fully lose that unpredictability. emily van der werff at vox wrote about this recently: TV doesn’t always need to be shorter; it just needs to know how to tell short stories that add up.
this is beside your point, but I’m really interested in how shows hold up over time and what keeps them relevant. the x-files and fringe are both sci-fi shows about investigating the unexplained, but the x-files doesn’t really care about science and fringe really does, so the x-files is less dated than a show that came out 15 years later. alias is very post 9/11, even though the pilot was filmed before 9/11. it’s about living in a surveillance state. but it never seems able to make a strong comment on that; there’s a lot of push and pull between critiquing and accepting the secrets the government “has to keep,” because at the time I think they could only go so far. whereas the americans will probably hold up better, even though it’s also a spy drama, because those questions are the whole point (being a period piece also helps).
I think any good show has staying power; it’s not just about relevance (breaking bad is about the darkness people are capable of, etc, but really it’s going to hold up because it’s entertaining as hell). but I do think ‘90s dramas have a leg up because technology hadn’t totally invaded everyday life yet, so the stories they told were more human. it’s hard to make interesting TV about problems that happen online and on our phones. some shows are doing it – the good fight, evil… basically, the kings are doing it – but a lot of stories about how it feels to be alive today are looking at it sideways (like the leftovers or the handmaid’s tale). the good place had to go to the afterlife to point out that no ethical consumption is possible under capitalism. we don’t have a clear way to talk about the present as it’s happening, even on TV. maybe that’s because it’s so fragmented.
but ultimately I think the good shows are still doing the same things. it’s tempting to say TV storytelling is bolder/less linear/weirder now, but it’s really just packaging. it’s the difference between twin peaks and twin peaks: the return. the ‘90s version looks more traditional, but it’s finding the tension between absurdity and structure as opposed to going all-out absurd. it’s the same questions in a new format. the x-files and the leftovers are still making the same points about the impossibility of understanding the world around us and the importance/limits of relationships to mitigate the chaos. the x-files just couldn’t have told that story with a lion sex cult.
Hey! You posting the latest podcast reminded me that I wanted to thank you guys so much for making an effort to transcribe your episodes. I've loved reading them, and as a deaf person it's so rare that I get to access that sort of fandom content. So kudos, and if you ever feel like posting a paypal to make transcription more affordable, I'd be glad to contribute.
Thank you! We’re pretty new to podcasting, so we’re doing what we can.
In terms of a PayPal, I think we’re probably not going that route. Cates and I do Fandalite Academy for fun, because we constantly talk to each other about Animorphs and Cates figured we might as well record ourselves as we’re doing it. I need money as much as the next carbon-based lifeform, but I worry that a PayPal sets up an implied contract that we’d be unable to fulfill. In case it wasn’t already obvious, our episode posting schedule is *ahem* sporadic at best. I don’t anticipate it ever becoming un-sporadic, and I don’t anticipate us ever achieving professional quality. Ergo, I doubt I’ll ever be comfortable charging money for it, even on a “suggested donation” basis.
On a related note: we’re probably never going to post on Sonos/iTunes/Podbean/GrooveShark/ other places mentioned in “can you post on my preferred podcast app instead?” asks. Hosting content there costs money, and Cates and I are just a couple of poor academics without cash to burn. We’re doing this for fun, y’all. We hope our fun is entertaining for y’all as well.
@impalementation replied to your post: 1 & 2 for buffy
ooh. i’m very interested in the fact that lessons rates so highly for you. would love to hear why!
part of it is that i watched season seven recently, so it’s fresh in my mind. but also, lessons makes me giddy, plain and simple. it contains many of my favorite elements for a buffy episode to have. lots of laugh out loud moments, summers sisters at the forefront of the story, creative fight scenes (i really dig the brick-filled purse), some stomach-swooping moments (seeing spike pop up gets me every time). the writers know all these characters and the world inside out, and that gives the episode a really satisfying feel and pace. the fact that we’re coming off identity-crises-for-everyone season six to this self-assured tone contributes to my enjoyment, for sure
but the thing that gets me the most, i think, is the way the episode shines a light on how far buffy’s traveled along her path. the scene most indicative of this for me is when she interrupts the zombified students’ guilt trip, remaining sympathetic to their plight but also establishing that she doesn’t own that guilt. high school buffy was emotionally crushed by the responsibilities of her calling again and again. it’s nice to see the way she’s established boundaries for herself without becoming callous and uncaring. (and of course the season plays with what happens when she is pushed into that territory, but seeing how she’d once found a way to balance these things both heightens the effect of general!buffy’s coldness and gives me a hopefulness that she’ll once again find the way back to emotional zen)
of course, there’s also the way the show’s using dawn juxtaposed against buffy to show how far we’ve come and to establish the season’s theme of shared power. under buffy’s guidance, dawn is way more prepared than her peers to face what demons live in sunnydale high. with someone like buffy looking over the younger generation, the horrors don’t seem as insurmountable as they did when they were happening to buffy. and that inter-generational care is a theme i really enjoy in my fiction.
bottom line is, the episode makes me nostalgic for times past and excited for what’s to come. and that’s a cool line to walk.
impalementation replied to your post: impalementation: impalementation: people talk...
@rahirah I don’t mind! I do think it was clumsy, like I said in the original post. I disagree somewhat with the statement that “magic is the problem” is what the show does, given that the Dark Willow arc is about Willow being unable to cope with grief, leading to abuse of magic. Which connects well with the emotional control stuff.
I think that's the main reason it's awkward, tbh. S6 starts out solidly in the "Grief makes Willow abuse magic" camp, which follows on from foreshadowing going back as far as S3. If they'd kept on in that vein, I think there would have been no problem whatsovever. But mid-season, the narrative switches abruptly to "Magic itself is addictive." (And then switches back in S7.)
The rumor amongst the spoiler hos back in the day was that Alyson Hannigan had expressed worries to Joss that Willow going full evil out of hubris and grief and becoming a major Big Bad (which was the original plan for the season) would make the character too unpopular. And because Alyson was Joss's favorite, he caved and changed it to "magic addiction." Take that with as much salt as you'd take any other twenty year old, third-hand set-side rumor. I don't know, but I wouldn't be too surprised if part of the reason behind the walk-back in S7 was the incredible backlash to Tara's death, and people pointing out how dodgy it was to go from "Magic symbolizes lesbian desire!" to "Magic is a destructive addictive force!" within the course of a season. :P
if pressed, i’d come down on the side of adult btvs. i prefer the more textured metaphors of the later years to the formulaic ‘this is the high school issue and the monster we’re using to horror-ify it’ approach from the beginning.
i think one of my most unpopular opinions, though, is that i’m most fond of the transition year because it feels like a breather from all the intense trauma of what comes before and what comes after.
send me a 🔥+ a topic, and i’ll tell you my honest opinion about it
impalementation replied to your post: impalementation replied to your post: ...
Unfortunately I don’t really have it in me to leave a more detailed reply. I recognize the limitations of the choices made with that plotline, I don’t disagree per se. But honestly at this point I’ve heard so many of the same complaints about it over the years that I just find it much more fun and satisfying to give the writing the credit it can be given. And I think there is credit to give there.
Fair enough -- there are definitely many plotlines where I do the same. (And as I said, I was mostly just whining to myself anyway.)
