#jake.pdf

[nekropsii]

I personally detest Jake English but i'm interested in your perspective on him being aroace!

Page 4876.

Page 4589.

Page 5811.

Just seems like an easy read to me.

[nekropsii]

About that poll you did: why don’t you find dirkjake compelling? You’re my go-to HS analyzer on this site so I’m curious about your perspective

Well. They literally never do anything on screen other than break up and angst about how the relationship isn’t working out because they’re 16 years old and literally fucking suck at communicating. Why should I be compelled by a relationship when 99% of its existence is dedicated to the fact that it sucks for totally normal 16 year old reasons and also that it’s over? I’m 23, and literally have infinitely better romances to focus on.

All the Alpha Kids just totally suck ass at talking to each other. This is because they’re 16 and sheltered, sure, but there comes a point where it gets kinda grating and hard to watch… Because the “Sheltered 16 Year Old” aspect is written so well. The way all these kids are just absolutely falling over each other trying to date Jake, who is deeply, deeply not into it is kinda just uncomfortable to read, and since Jake’s arc gets cut off short before its resolution… There’s just no concrete payoff, really. Poor dude is still getting treated like that to this day.

I understand it was revolutionary for some people, seeing as how it was the first time they’d seen a “Love Triangle” (no it wasn’t) where a guy was getting pursued by another guy and also a girl… And not only that, but the other guy won…

… But also there’s, like, way better queer media out there. I’ve seen horror movies with more compelling gay themes/romances in them. Plenty of them. It’s actually pretty common. I’m well fed. And also he is literally related to the girl in question here, so dating the guy is literally the only correct choice if he had to pick one with a gun to his head.

The best choice for Jake in reality would have been none of them.

TL;DR: I am a grown man and they literally never do anything that warrants the label of “compelling”.

[nekropsii]

hello! sorry if this is a stupid question, but i recall seeing someone claim that aranea was pedophilic/predatory towards jake— is that true? if not, do you know where that idea may have come from?

Hi, Anon! Considering the question is prompted by the claims of another, and this claim has an extreme amount of gravity attached to it, this is not a stupid question whatsoever. I appreciate that you're trying to fact check this, rather than just spreading that idea with zero regard. A lot of people online tend to get really caught up in the immediate emotional response that an Accusation of Sexual Misconduct gives them, and fail to do their due diligence. I can't fault anyone for feeling distressed upon hearing that anyone is a Pedophile or a Sexual Predator, but it's irresponsible and disrespectful to not... Y'know, check the evidence, if there's even any there.

I'm going to put this all under a cut due to the subject matter. You understand, I hope!

Content Warning: Discussion of Pedophilia, Assault, and Dubious Consent.

Let's get this out of the way right off the bat: No, Aranea is not a Pedophile, and I do not believe she has ever sexually or romantically predated on Jake.

I am not saying this to blame who is being understandably perceived as the victim of the situation. Jake is, by all accounts, the target of a lot of Non-Consenting and Dubiously Consenting advances… So it makes a lot of sense to immediately be on the offensive with regards to anyone's conduct towards Jake. I get it. Jake is living in the tragedy of being seen as an object by his peers- some kind of prize to be won, something that exists only to provide some kind of romantic or sexual catharsis. It's horrible, genuinely, and I totally understand the urge to instantly jump on anything that veers even slightly in that direction and take it to extremes…

…But that just… Did not happen with Aranea. Because Jake was not the target of attraction here. Aranea was. Aranea never pursued Jake, to my knowledge, save for one single scene. Put a pin in that. She was not interested in him, he was interested in her. He labelled Aranea as his Dream Girl very quickly after meeting her, and at no point does she... Reciprocate his feelings.

The immediate counterpoint to that is that Pedophiles do not love their victims. And I would typically completely agree with it!! This is true!! Bringing up anything akin to "True Love" in defense of an act of Child Predation is absolutely disgusting!!

...But Aranea is not a Pedophile. In no universe would Aranea ever be considered a Pedophile, even if she had feelings for and sexually pursued Jake. She wouldn't be a Pedophile even if she straight up assaulted him on screen. She is 19 years old, and he is 16 years old. That does not even come close to counting as Pedophilia. Their ages are way too close for that. If Jake was 13 years old or younger, and she was attracted to him, then yes, this would be an entirely valid point to make. That practically wouldn't even be an accusation, that would be an observation. It would be extremely fucked up if that was the case, as it is with Cronus and Meenah, but that's just... Not true here.

But then there's the claim of Predation left, which is an entirely ageless concept. There's no implication of an immoral age discrepancy in the label of "Predator".

...But Aranea never sexually predated on Jake. She just plain was not interested in him, not even as a friend. Jake was more or less just a tool to her, a mere cog in the machine of her plan to Fuck Shit Up. Is that fucked up? Sure!! But that's average Villain Behavior, and it's not inherently Predatory. Especially not in the way that's implied when paired with a Pedophilia Accusation.

Remember that scene I said to put a pin in, though? The one where she actually does make an unwanted advance on Jake? We're bringing it up again now. That, conceptually, sounds like a counterpoint to what I'm saying here at first, but just bear with me. There's a scene in which, just prior to her making Jake Hope-splode, Aranea tries to kiss him. This was actually how she was initially going to "heal" him. The advance was made, and right before she actually did kiss him, he started flailing and wildly professing how much he does not consent to the situation.

[Homestuck, page 6582.]

It's clear from what he's saying and how he's behaving that the severity of this reaction has been building up over the course of his story. Even if that wasn't the case, his lack of consent is fair...

...And goes completely uncontested.

[Homestuck, page 6582.]

This is the problem. This is the biggest issue I have with the claim that she was predating upon Jake. Not as a child, but as a person. I have to assume that it was about this scene- there's no other place in the story in which you could make that claim and have it be any level of grounded. But taking a moment to read the text makes the entire argument that this was an act of Sexual Predation completely fall apart, because his lack of consent to being kissed goes instantly respected and totally unchallenged.

She drops him... And says this.

[Homestuck, page 6583.]

This... Is not Pedophilia. This is not Sexual Predation. This is two teenagers experiencing a messy situation.

Aranea knew Jake was into her, and assumed that that meant he would've enjoyed her making a move on him. It is, by all means, a valid assumption to make- it's understandable. It's a completely average train of thought. Jake, however, is tired of people making moves on him, and despite being attracted to her, did not accept this advance.

...To which she immediately accepts "No" as an answer, ceases physical contact, apologizes, explains herself, and then says that her advances were inappropriate, and that she will try to be better in the future.

This is... A fantastic response to someone expressing a lack of consent. Especially considering she's Beforan! By all accounts, she's the most normal person out of that whole group because of this!!

The only thing that puts a damper on this is that she immediately turns around and heals him. But... That's not an inherently sexual act. Yes, he did not give express verbal consent to being healed, but it's also just straight up not something you can quantify as Sexual Predation. It's not even a metaphor for it!

I don't know. Calling her a Pedophile is abhorrent. It is way too far and entirely inaccurate. Calling her a Sexual Predator is less egregious, but the bar for what's okay is being used in a limbo competition in Hell.

To me, this is just an instance of messy teenage sexuality. It's just... A misunderstanding that was immediately resolved, and then followed up by some Video Game Villain behavior. If their age gap in the context of any romantic advances makes you uncomfortable, that's completely and utterly fine. More than okay. It's a perfectly respectable boundary to have. But that boundary doesn't mean that it's fine to randomly stick a label as loaded and utterly despicable as "Pedophile" onto anything. A misunderstanding left unescalated isn't a crime, and Video Game Villain Behavior isn't sexually predatory.

I hope this response finds you well. Have a lovely day.

[nekropsii]

Admittedly one part of this question is outside your wheelhouse but as the main Alpha Trolls Guy I follow, what would you say is the purpose of the parallels between Horuss and Rufioh on the one hand and Dirk and Jake on the other? Esp since it was Rufioh, the Jake-figure, who was decapitated. Is it just an “All things come round again” example of Paradox Space doing its thing, or to show that Dirk and Jake wouldn’t last under the circumstances of the void session, or?

I swear to God I don't mean this to sound mean, but... I don't think there's any profound "purpose", because I don't think they parallel in any profound way at all. Similarities between the two are incredibly surface level, and I'm not really of the opinion that Dirk and Jake own the themes/motifs "being paralleled" or anything.

Typically the explanation for DirkJake/RufUss paralleling each other is that they're both Gay Relationships that have Communication Issues, and there's something in there relating to Decapitation. That's... It, though? Sure, that's a parallel in the technical sense, but there's nothing deep to it. Plenty of other things in Homestuck share one of those traits, and it doesn't really mean much. Hell, I'd attribute Horuss and Rufioh being a gay relationship with communication problems to Hussie genuinely just not handling gay relationships and characters all that well, rather than them being some god-tier writer.

I couldn't tell you the purpose because I'm not even sure if it was intentional. Everything else about them is so vastly different that I'm inclined to believe any similarities weren't intended. To me, it's purely a consequence of them having been written by the same author.

[nekropsii]

I think. we as a fandom should talk about transfem Jake more. or at all. his role model is Lara croft goddammit. I think @/alphasesh put it best (alphasesh tumblr com/post/685246181389074432/jake-oh-man-i-hope-all-these-hyper-masculine#notes)

unsocialized teenagers

Jake ‘oh man I hope all these hyper masculine movies dont give me a warped idea of masculinity and cause self image problems in the future’

[Link to the post included for ease.]

Ahh, yes… Jake’s status of being Narratively a Girl as a method of trope subversion accidentally coming out with some extreme themes of Gender Troubles. A subject matter and point of discussion that I very much so wish would be considered classic. You’re right, it’s absolutely severely under-discussed, despite the fact that that motif is quite critical to his character. I’d go as far to say that if you fail to include the Gender Troubles/Narratively Feminine aspect of Jake’s character, you’ve failed to write Jake.

Femininity is a central piece of Jake’s character, and it’s a trait that’s quite quickly defined about him. His constant hypersexualization within the confines of the story, and consistent reduction to being nothing more than either a bumbling idiot (read: a bimbo) or an object of romantic interest/obsession to lust after is very much so a part of it all. Jake is experiencing what it’s like to be a woman without actually being a woman at all, and the fact that he relates to and idolizes strong female characters who often get the same treatment by viewers is quite a noteworthy feature of his psychology. It’s fascinating.

His identity is molded around characters like Lara Croft! He wants to be her! I agree with you here, truly- I really do wish people would explore the themes of Femininity in Jake’s character. Let Jake be a little gender-funny. There’s no harm in it!

[nekropsii]

Recently I’ve been really leaning onto the hadcanon that Jake is aroace, mostly because of pesterquest haha but I did like the idea before I played

Would it be biphobic to hc him as aroace?/gen

Honestly, I see Jake as at the very least Aromantic myself, possibly even AroAce, just like you. He’s read to me as being at the very least a level of Demiromantic and/or Demisexual.

My personal thoughts are that I do not think that’s Biphobic. Just like it’s not Homophobic to have Aspec headcanons about Gay/Lesbian characters. Not because I’m making exceptions for my own interpretations of characters- I like to think I’m a little too self aware to do that- but because sexuality and romantic orientation is a very complicated thing and being AroAce doesn’t inherently conflict with being Gay, Bi, or a Lesbian at all.

I, personally, would describe myself as Gay and AroAce. Real attraction comes to me so rarely that it can be difficult to explain to people that, by technicality, I’m Demiromantic/Demisexual, just to a severe degree, so it’s simply easier to stick with AroAce. I think of it similarly to identifying as “Queer.” Very much so a blanket label.

My own identification of being AroAce is not stopping me from being the gayest man in my friend group, and it’s also not stopping me from having a boyfriend who I love dearly, and have loved dearly for years now. It isn’t Homophobic or Biphobic or Lesbophobic to have a complicated relationship with sex and romance. There is a world of difference between saying a character, who is Bi, might prefer not to have sex and generally doesn’t experience romantic attraction, and saying a character, who is Bi, is Gay simply because he dated a man once, or straight simply because he’s dated more women.

That is what I was talking about when I said “Please be normal about Bisexual characters.” People in this fandom- and in general, honestly- cannot comprehend the fact that Bisexual people are, in fact, Bisexual, and don’t magically become Gay or straight simply because they gained a romantic interest in someone. You would not believe the amount of people I’ve seen say Dave is straight up 100% Gay in canon. No he isn’t.

[nekropsii]

Reminiscing on some old fandom stuff. No clue if this is still an active problem, and I don’t necessarily care, because I want to talk about it regardless.

It was always strange watching some people call DirkJake/SkullCap/whatever you want to call it severely abusive, or saying that either party in the relationship was the worst.

The finger-pointing and name-calling really just missed the point of how and why their dynamic was like that. Neither Dirk nor Jake are abusive, toxic, conniving demons who fully recognize “what they’re doing” is hurting the other- they are mentally ill/disabled 16-year-old boys who have been severely isolated from human contact their entire lives.

One has to recognize that on top of their age and level of isolation, Dirk is incredibly, incredibly mentally ill and Jake has untreated brain damage that just keeps compounding ACTIVELY in the story. We see Jake get pretty bad head injuries regularly! It’s a genuine issue!

The reason their relationship fell apart was not because they’re ultimately purposefully toxic figures, either on their own or to each other, it’s because they lacked the ability to communicate properly. They fell apart because of a breakdown in communication, not because they actively hated each other. It’s not that they REFUSED to communicate properly, they LACKED the ability to do so.

Dirk’s complete isolation from human contact his entire life, coupled with his mental illness, meant that he struggled with communication. Jake’s isolation from human contact, coupled with his legitimate brain damage, meant that he struggled with communication. Neither of them are totally, completely at fault for this, because they are literally just flawed 16 year olds with no romantic experience, and honestly, all things considered? They could be a LOT worse. They COULD have been actively abusive to each other- taking into consideration their living situations and how it could have affected them- And it would have even made sense if they were- but they weren’t. Maybe their version of “trying their best” isn’t relatable to everyone. Maybe the thought of what Dirk and Jake’s version of “trying their best” is makes one cringe at the thought of it applying to them. But here’s the thing- it’s not exactly supposed to be completely relatable, nor is it intended as being the pinnacle of relationships. Dirk and Jake’s relationship isn’t a how-to guide, it’s just a display of how their relationship functioned.

Jake’s perceived “Hopelessness” is derived from his impaired cognitive functions and his inability to communicate properly. That’s more than likely caused by his brain damage. Dirk’s self-perceived “Heartlessness” is derived from his own seeming inability to properly communicate with people, as well as his supposed potential for “evil.” That’s most definitely caused by his mental illness. Are these attributes- Jake’s “Hopelessness” and Dirk’s “Heartlessness”- also connected to their classpects, Page of Hope and Prince of Heart respectively? Abso-fucking-lutely. But we aren’t here to talk about that today.

Holding Dirk and Jake up to the exact same standard one would two perfectly functioning, experienced adults is weird and disingenuous, and completely brushes aside that these are two inexperienced, unaware children who are struggling to make things work on a fundamental level.

It’s ok to struggle and fail in a relationship. It’s a regular occurrence that’s happened to a lot of people, for one reason or the other. Not everything works out, especially on the first try, and that’s ok. Dirk and Jake’s relationship was the result of one of the most common reasons a relationship fails. Neither of them are horrible people for it, just flawed. And that’s ok. They just need to grow, is all.