I’ve seen Horuss headcanoned to be Transfem quite a bit, I’m curious to hear if you have any thoughts on the interpretation, especially after having read the Transfem equius posts.
I had a brief discussion with @starlit1daydream about this topic recently, and we agreed that while the reading is there and theoretically easy to make... It's a bit less substantive than a Transfeminine Equius reading, and also a little bit more difficult to state as fact due to Horuss's... Horussness.
You would necessarily have to contend with, on the Watsonian side of things, Horuss's incredibly strained relationship with Identity, and, on the Doylist side of things, Hussie's at the time incredibly fucked "understanding" of Plurality. Horuss has an interesting character feature wherein he's seemingly incapable of finding literally any fulfillment in himself and his identity, specifically mentioning how no matter how much he tries and no matter what he tries, he just can't fill this unplaceable gaping empty void in his soul. It's part of why he's still clinging to Rufioh, despite the fact that it's obvious neither of them legitimately want to be in each other's company. He also has a very frustrating character feature where, whenever he verged on being actually really interesting, Hussie shot herself directly in the foot by turning Systems into punchlines that were somehow completely interchangeable with... Otherkins and Therians? It's weird.
All this said, Starlit's planning on writing up a big post breaking down Horuss's character along the same lines as her really good Equius Essay that you should absolutely read, especially if you enjoy my various Equius postings.
what does horuss' current circle of friends look like?
Put simply: He doesn't... Have a close circle. Nor any friends for that matter! His inclinations towards anger + his belief in hemoloyalism tends to push people away nowadays.
Not many characters in Homestuck are objectively real-world racist - mostly just Hemoloyal, which is primarily the Troll form of Classism, and tends to be presented as such, or they are written in a way that is racist, which is a different thing entirely - but the two most prominent ones are Dave and Horuss. Isn’t that a fun fact?
Anti-Black Racism permeates throughout Dave’s character, he expresses it, like, all of the fucking time, and Horuss is Anti-Japanese and completely deranged about it. Dave’s racism is played off as a funny joke - Horuss’s isn’t. A lot of Dave’s racism flies over people’s heads because they’re laughing alongside him, processing most of it as 2000’s-brand Random Humor, but it’s pretty hard to miss what’s going on with Horuss.
Dave’s a white rapper from Texas fixated on the novelty of a Black president, using the existence of one as a punchline regularly, refers to Black - sorry, Urban - Art in jest, and, famously, says the N-Word and variants of it several times. Horuss is out here calling Japanese a vulgar, peasant tongue, practically spitting in Damara’s eyes every time she speaks to him. Though it’s being directed at another Troll, and Hemoloyalty is factoring into the bigotry here… That’s still real-world racism!
I just think that’s interesting. I think about it sometimes.
Like, I don't personally believe WV would be allergic to being a mentor or something of a father figure, but I do have to wonder the level to which he was wigged out by the way that Dave and Karkat treat him, because Dave in particular imprints on him in a way that is... Kind of strange.
The later portions of Homestuck really baby WV. It's upsetting.
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Easy. The actual things wrong with them.
A lot of the discourse surrounding them is fabricated, or has such poor priorities it might as well be fabricated. Most critical conversations about them surrounds things people just made up over the course of years of mythologizing their #Problematicness.
For Example: Most of the discourse surrounding why Horuss had problematic writing had to do with how he was "Bad Otherkin Representation", when the real issue was the fact that Hussie was conflating Being Otherkin with having a Dissociative Disorder, and in turn saying both of them are the exact same level of Fake And Gay for the exact same reason, because to Hussie they were the same thing. To this day, people get startled every time I point out that Horuss is canonically a System despite him bringing it up just as regularly as he does being Therian. Those are totally wack priorities.
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...That's scary... I don't even have words...
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LOL. The Lost Weeaboos was a Grade A bit. Thank you Aranea, very cool.
Honestly, I don't even count Cronus as a "facade character", because it's not like he's making any efforts to hide jack shit. It's been... Interesting, watching several people refer to "his facade" lately, when, like... What are they talking about, honestly? He's pretty bold-faced about his whole deal. This isn't really a Dave situation where you could be capable of falling for it when you're younger, because Cronus couldn't be doing a worse job at "hiding" how awful he is. He's not even trying, because he knows he can get away with it. What are the other Alphas gonna do? Leave?
Hope you're having a good time!! The Alpha Trolls may be a Trash Heap, but they are my Trash Heap.
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There comes a point where it's almost comedic how unaware people are of it... Like, what do you mean you know he's a Horse Therian but not that he's a System? He literally calls himself the Host of a System and talks about Switching. IN THOSE TERMS. He's not even obfuscating it by using some esoteric Troll terminology, he is LITERALLY using the words "Host", "System", and "Switching".
It's painful. I know this is a moment befitting of an XKCD comic, but... Jeez. You'd think these things would both be on the same level of common knowledge, considering how they're traits that are directly related to each other and given equal amounts of screen time, but nope!
Unfortunately, it is a situation where this is relevant. Sad!
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All characters will become AroSpec and/or ASpec with the help of my Beam Attack.
... Except for Cronus. It's just not funny when it's him. Due to The Themes. It's not fun to headcanon a character as any minority when a huge part of their character is that they pretend to be minorities for Pity Points to eventually cash in for Sex. Ew. Making him literally anything other than Just Cronus plays directly into so many vile Queer stereotypes it's insane. Those are stereotypes that have gotten people actually genuinely killed. Just... Ew. Gross.
If I see one more person say the most problematic thing about Horuss’s writing is that he’s making fun of Otherkin/Therian people, I’m gonna lose it. Yes, it is mean that Hussie is making fun of a group of people who are thoroughly minding their own business and just enjoying themselves…
…But, I’m sorry, it’s kind of chump change in comparison to the fact that Horuss is actually Hussie making fun of Systems, Hussie just thinks they’re the same thing and the same level of Fake and Lame. I think making fun of Systems takes precedence in this situation. I think that’s a little more important.
Simultaneously, though, Horuss is a very interesting character and Hussie verges on one of the most fascinating handlings of identity in Homestuck with him, they just shoot themself in the foot with the inability to be sincere without making a joke out of it.
I mean this genuinely, by the way. Horuss is a very interesting character. It’s a shame Hussie turned it all into a punchline.
whats sovhoruss like? i dont think i see you ever talking about the patrons you write
The most notable difference here between that of Homestuck Horuss VS Sovereignstuck Horuss; is the fact that both Sovstuck Meulin and Horuss don’t have the same Self-imposed & Nepeta+Equius inspired dynamic like they do in Homestuck. Thus Horuss is just generally able to be at his Neutral Angry State, rather than one influenced by Meulin's habit of toxic positivity.
Predictably, this means Horuss is generally a lot more harsh towards the people around him, and Himself. Whether that’s because of interpersonal/internal strife or General Hostility depends on the day.
He also holds the status as the Renaissance Man of the Patron group, possessing a wealth of perfected Creative and Craftmanship skills; while feeling largely undefined, by both skills & status. It's a Deeply frustrating topic for Horuss, but keeping productive despite it feels better than not being productive at all.
In terms of his Plurality, it can be summarized easily with one image:
Canonically? Yeah, absolutely. Perhaps "was" is a better term to use... But he definitely still has his moments, constantly. Such as his really disturbingly aggressive Hemoloyalty. But he's not really outwardly "angry and aggressive" in the traditional sense... Anymore, and for now.
I might've mentioned this earlier, but Horuss's smiley demeanor is actually a facade forced upon him by Meulin.
This whole "Smiley Horuss" deal is a very recent change, in text. Very, very recent. It occurred in the advent of Horuss and Meulin becoming Moirails, which occurred in the advent of them meeting Equius and Nepeta. They saw their Moirallegience, and wanted what they had, basically.
Anyway, this Moirallegience meant that, in true Meowrails fashion, Meulin was the one keeping Horuss in check. But... Meulin has a rather unfortunate problem with Toxic Positivity, actually, which was a very common issue amongst Tumblr users for a while, especially people heavier into the fandom side of things... And this is what lead to Meulin forcing the facade of constant happiness onto Horuss... Essentially as "treatment" for his anger issues.
She seems to be under the impression that it is somehow healthier to force yourself to never experience any negative emotion, ever, than it is to be able to confront and healthily engage with your negative feelings. Which... Again, is just what Toxic Positivity is, and again, was a huge problem on Tumblr for a while. It's a unique form of the Anti-Recovery mindset.
As the above screenshot says, Horuss finds this mask to be putting him in constant agony. It's really not helping him, and he's still an asshole. He just happens to feel more like garbage constantly for it. He isn't addressing a single one of his issues or bigoted views, he's just smiling while expressing them. For once, Meenah is the Voice of Reason regarding this:
She's right for that. It is some pretty shitsauce advice.
I notice it mentioned to be "forced" a few times, so I just wanted to double-check: I thought the Horuss smile was the result of a language barrier, since Meulin signs very fast when happy, with Horuss describing it as "a moderately discernible series of enthusiastic mimes" and Meenah saying to Meulin that she "seriously cant understand what your tryin to say half the time"
It might be from unfamiliarity, since Horuss never considered getting close to Meulin from her being a lowblood while Kurloz himself is reserved, and Meenah forgetting a lot of details in-general from isolating herself for a long time ever since their death
I think of his understanding of what Meulin signs could be similar to how he could only partially understand some of what Damara says, due to his ignorance and feeling less-inclined to take the time and effort to learn and understand them, with Damara's being more apparent as she doesn't use two languages like Meulin does
Uh... Nope. Factually untrue. I'm genuinely not quite sure how that conclusion was reached, considering the fact that this is an unhealthy thing for him is stated... Immediately after that "enthusiastic mimes" line. And before it. It's kind of just sandwiched in there. It's a very, very small part of a huge rant. It's really not the focal point of the statement at all.
The sign language isn't being referenced as a source of the suggestion. Meulin is. He isn't smiling because of a language barrier, Meulin just has a toxic positivity problem.
