#jb positivity

[weirddreamergirl]

If ever you're disappointed by the lack of JB in the trailer (it's inevitable but some of you might feel that way) or dealing with jerky people trying to dismiss JB or frustrating TB hype, here's a pic of Gwen smiling captioned with positivity. :D

[wackygoofball]

Jaime, his wench, and the thing about honor (aka love).

[wackygoofball]

Hello! I am really happy that Jaime and Brienne will both go to Riverlands, i believe there will finally be great scenes for all JB shippers. I just want to point out that people constantly complain on what Jaime on the show should do or not based on the books, while ignoring Brienne and Cersei are very different characters than the books also. You can't expect Jaime to react exactly the same to different situations and characters. The story will be told. I stay positive.

Hi anon!

Indeed, indeed, so much happiness that we finally, finally get our reunion.

And holy fuckin’ goodness. There’s gonna be chemistry. There’s gonna be all of that goodness. Stuffed with angst and feels and UST. Hnnnnnnnnnnngggg.

I absolutely agree with you.

I mean, I understand that a lot of people do that. Many were book-fans before the show came. And that almost inevitably leads to disapointment. I know that I have read books to then watch the movie and I was howling mad because the adaptation did not in the least capture things in my opinion. So - I cannot underline often enough that people are free to criticize, not to like how it goes on the show, or vocalize their disappointment.

But, as you say, I also reserve for myself to treat those things as mostly separate entities. GRRM himself said that you couldn’t make ASoIaF a movie/TV show as far as I know, until D&D gave it a try. They have a different focus, and it’s really tough to find actors and actresses who do not just fulfill the physical attributes but who also deliver the character. A one-to-one adaptation was and is utopian in my opinion. Changes were made. We can no like that or not, and that’s everyone’s good right, but personally, I have no issues with that.

I guess I really enjoy the advantage of coming to the books through the show so that I regard the books more as helpful and interest further input to the show, but I don’t treat either one as the holy grail the other cannot achieve. They are both pieces of fiction that stand there in their own right. So to judge a given medium only based on its fulfillment of the book elements is surely valid, but not very fruitful for me, because you easily run the trouble of simply repeating the overall argument “but it’s different in the books”.

Jaime and Cersei are not one-to-one adaptations of the books either. As you say, they have differences. Some of which also came through the rearrangement of the timeline. Again, that is obviously up to criticism, but I am of the view that you can, yes, compare book and show versions of characters, but that it’s very dangerous to one’s own personal enjoyment of the show to take the book as the face value to measure everything by. Because it won’t ever be a one-to-one adaptation.

The thing is, the show’s made the effort to reassign motivations or shift them. But we don’t know how that will play out in the future, at least not yet. So I guess I, for myself, reserve the right to see what happens in show!Jaime’s arc before I will say “well, that’s where something went wrong in the character development for certain”. Right now, a lot is up in the air. And I guess that is the frustrating part for all of us. We don’t have a conclusion from the books (we may never… get those books… damn you, GRRM). We don’t have one in the show. There is just so much going on right now that’s simply hanging in the air that we can’t figure. And that inevitably leads one’s mind to not juts speculations but also expectations. After years and years of theorizing that is a natural thing. And if those expectations aren’t met… well, it stands to reason that people get mad, but begging the show vs. book argument isn’t getting us very far.

I think there are quite a few merits with Jaime’s and Cersei’s rearrangements of character motivations, etc. (while it most certainly has its downsides the same way, not gonna lie, I didn’t love everything either, far from it). I don’t know if I could take Cersei only just a wee bit seriously if she were more like her book!counterpart who’s all about “I am amazing. Look at my amazingness. I am so smart” *fucks up* “I am all kinds of amazing. Did you see that? Did you see how awesome I am. Yay me. High five me. I am Queen. No one ever saw my talent.” *fucks up more* “Yay me!” *fucks up everything* “Cersei yes!” world: “Cersei no” *world burns*.

And from a production-POV I also understand that the producers didn’t feel like writing Cersei like that if they had any intention to cast someone like Lena for the role, only to give her the script and say “For some 7 seasons you will play this dumb antagonist who’s all about parading herself for wrongdoings and lacks any sort of uplifting character traits. Please sign here”.

Same is true for Jaime. Again, I understand and respect people’s criticism and frustration. I always argue from my personal POV to which I call no authority otherwise. I think there is still everything open for him. The show’s slowed his development down. But so did the books. Jaime is all about subtext. Jaime is all about inner development.

And I guess it really gets odd once you let it sink in that a lot of us hoped for a drastic change in terms of what the book development would tell us and then get frustrated when the show does not really divert from the books (again, I caught myself rolling my eyes once I saw it flicker across the screen last night, but once I thought about it that I was hoping for a change only to get my shipper hopes high, it dawned on me personally (again, by no means saying that people can’t maintain that POV, it’s their good right) that I was jumping on the same train and hoping for what the show’s getting criticized for again and again.

So yeah, I for myself really try my best to enjoy these things as separate, let ideas infuse my dealing and theorizing of the materials, but don’t try to carry my expectations over to either one.

I fare pretty well with that, so for anyone who feels down and doens’t want to feel down anymore (those who want to rage and criticize are obviously just as free in criticizing and raging :D ), I can only recommend you this.

As you say, the story will be told.

We are here for the fun.

So let’s all have fun, in whatever form that may be. :D

[wackygoofball]

Jaime Lannister of Casterly Rock

                                   &

Brienne of Tarth

[wackygoofball]

                                          “Tarth, Ser Jaime.”

 “Not only does my world revolve around her, but she is my world. She's not just my reason for breathing, she's air itself. She's the meaning behind every one of my thoughts, every thrum of my pulse, every whisper of my conscience. She's my entire everything. It's as simple and as complex as that.”         ―    Laurelin Paige, Forever with You    

[wackygoofball]

Have you read the supposed spoilers on Reddit,particularly the ones pertaining to the J/B reunion? The way it was written sounded awfully neutral,like it wasn't really a big deal. I don't know if that's because the one who wrote it doesn't really care all that much about Jaime or Brienne,or am I just getting paranoid?

Hi anon!

Uhm, I can’t say if I have read these in particular. I’ve read a number of spoilers on reddit and other forums, so I can’t really tell if I have read a specific one.

So any points I raise here are just general perceptions and not directed at the original post or the OP.

You say that the JB reunion was written as “awfully neutral” and like it “wasn’t really a big deal”. While I can’t say that it won’t be like that (though I obviously have my doubts), I will say the following:

From some spoilers I have read before I got to watch the episode in question, I was surprised how much was left unsaid. Sure, the keystones were the same, say, Margaery being brought to Loras or Jon waking back up, but other things, like nuances in behavior that I saw, subtle hints, etc. were largely left unsaid. What those spoilers usually lack is in-depth description and is almost always necessarily colored by the OP’s preferences - at least that is my experience thus far.

If I were to have the spoilers for episode 6, I would go on about my favorites far more than other arcs. I would probably write three pages on Jaime’s facial expressions and gestures, but would then go ahead and say “oh yeah, and then we have a scene of Daenerys flirting with Daario, sightseeing  Essos… The End…” - because I am not interested in that arc. So I can imagine that if the OP is not interested in Jaime in particular, or in Brienne in particular, that s/he will go ahead to only state the plainest facts, which would be “they meet again. They argue. She leaves. The End”.

So if you read spoilers, you do not only have to take into consideration the validity of the statements as they are (and what backup there is based on, say, filming spoilers that were already confirmed), but also the OP’s personal background. Sometimes (though obviously not always, gender is a construct, etc.) you find a trend that boys who’re especially invested in, like, Jon or the Starks etc. will write in a different way than, say, a JB-shipping girl or a girl who’s really invested in Daenerys’ arc. Our preferences an social spectra necessarily shade the way we handle information and how we reiterate it.

So I’d take all of that with a grain of salt. It may be that they are legit to a certain degree, but it may also be that they lack in-depth analysis of, say, a character’s motivations because of either a lack of interest or because the aim is really to just provide the keystones (which would then again refer back to the OP’s agenda, which is yet again one factor people have to consider when reading spoilers: If the agenda is to merely state the facts, then you will only get that. If it is aimed at a full analysis, then you have to further beg questions about the OP’s preferences and the like).

To give but one example: Imagine someone who’s really invested in the Starks gets information (sees the scene) of the JB reunion and let’s further assume the spoilers are confirmed that they have a fight and that this somehow revolves around Jaime not being willing to support the Tullys/Starks and may even snap at Brienne, telling her that he has other priorities, has to put his family first, etc.

Now, a hyopothetical total Stark fan will probably sit there and be like “what an ass!” - because that fan likely measures “good” behavior by the amount of contribution to helping the Starks back into a position of power. So a character will be more or less a villain or more or less boring because s/he does not support the Starks/ actively works against them in some way. And that even at the risk of (perhaps… again, all just speculation for the sake of the argument here) ignoring Jaime’s personal motives and that he’d make a case in point by sticking to his family instead of the Starks, because he owes his family that much as well, regardless of what his family did in the past.

Then the spoiler the hypothetical Stark fan would write down may be something like: “Jaime acts like a total jerk to Brienne. He doesn’t listen to reason. She storms out of the tent angrily to side with the Tullys in the hopes to turn the siege in favor of the right team”. Or something to that effect.

So you already see how perception changes the way it’s written, right?

Now let’s turn this to a hypothetical someone who has a general hatred for both Jaime and Brienne, is not interested in their arcs at all, and would rather wish them gone: “Oh yeah, those two again. They meet again. They argue about political affairs they shouldn’t be involved in. I hope they’ll finally disappear during that arc”.

Or a hypothetical Lannister sympathizer/ Jaime fan: “They meet again. But he makes a number of good points to Brienne. She just doesn’t listen to reason. Is he supposed to let his family lose for the Starks of all people? She should know that Jaime feels hatred for Ned - and for good reason, etc.”.

Again, that’s all just hypothetical and is not supposed to be reflective of a particular person or even real opinion. But I think it illustrates how perception can skew the same information. All talk about the same instance, but they reflect on it in different ways because they come to the scene with different expectations, hopes, presumptions, and foci.

So the only advice I can give is to take spoilers with a grain of salt not just in terms of their likability or probability but also in terms of how the information may be (unconsciously) shaped by the OP’s purpose, agenda, perception, preferences, and focus. :D

And no worries, I catch myself way too often going paranoid on spoilers regardless of that I know these things. Us shippers want to see the JB-ship sail at last, and I guess that makes us all a bit antsy at some point. ;)

[wackygoofball]

I wonder if Brienne will return Oathkeeper to Jaime at Riverrun? It's something I'd like to see play out considering all the potential misunderstandings and drama that could come out of such as situation. Still no sign of Widow's Wail though...

Hi anon!

As I said in a previous post, I have a lot of hope that Brienne will do that. If you wanna check out the reasons listed there, well, go to the link. Otherwise I would be repeating all of my JB-rambling in this post another time, LOL.

As you say, the potential misunderstanding of that gesture would be wonderful to push them in their dynamic and push them closer to realizing what they mean to each other.

Ugh, yes, Widow’s Wail. I have been going on about this sword for so long now. I won’t give up till last that Jaime will get it at some point, but… I mean…

The metaphors.

The symbolism.

All of that JB-goodness.

Fuckin’ Valryian Steel - useful against the WHITE WALKERS.

Which is needed in the NORTH.

Myyyaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I mean, inside my mind, I have this headcanon concerning the swords (among many, many more):

Jaime gets Widow’s Wail somehow (from Tommen, but how that would go is still a huge question mark). He takes it with him, and if I am halfway correct, Jaime doesn’t want to be in Riverrun, but instead be by Tommen’s side, protect the kid with that sword, etc.

If I combine this with the other headcanon I previously posted as to how I can imagine the JB-reunion going down, then we’d have one sword where one party (Jaime) believes its function was fulfilled (namely that it was used to keep the oath to Cat to find Sansa) - but be wrong with that, to maintain the importance of keeping that name and returning it to its now *rightful* owner, Brienne, and the other has indeed already fulfilled its function by virtue of its name, Widow’s Wail.

I always understood it as the irony of Joffrey’s actions that he named it like that, probably in an attempt to e.g. diss Sansa, but in the end it was the foreshadowing to his own death, leaving his soon-to-be widow Margaery screaming as he died (hence a widow who’s been wailing)/ his mother screaming and crying (who’s also a widow).

So the sword begs for a new name.

And since the show reassigned the naming of Oathkeeper to Brienne, wouldn’t it be wonderful to have Jaime now rename the other twin blade, to assign it to a new purpose?

So okay, back to the headcanon of mine. Jaime is in Riverrun - and he may even feel hesitant about picking up the sword because of his lack of confidence in his own sword skills now with his left hand (regardless of the training) and with all the other shit that’s going on in KL.

*fast forward a whole lot to bypass more specs of mine*

Option a): Jaime will pick up Widow’s Wail (or Oathkeeper, though I’ll now stick to Widow’s Wail because 1) it’s a smaller blade, hence easier for him to handle with his still weak left and 2) because it’d embody his choice of Brienne over his family - though I also recognize the wonderful thing of having it be Oathkeeper, and hence a renewal of that oath they both made, a “yes” to her and her mission, of picking up where he left off) to protect Brienne and fight for her in some way, regardless of his lessened chances due to a lack of skill - and succeeds because… he has any damn reason to win!

Option b) (which kind of goes hand-in-hand with option a)): We’ve moved past whatever Riverrun crisis. They are either on the road up North, on Quiet Isle, in imprisonment, or past that imprisonment business as well, whatevs.

And Jaime eventually tells Brienne that he’s found a name for the sword, which will be somehow reflective of him choosing the mission in the North, her mission, and far more importantly her.

Brienne will get that message. Tears will stand in her eyes. I guess you can imagine the rest.

But yeah, I know that’s more wishful thinking than anything else. But a fangirl’s allowed to dream on, right?

Especially if she’s obsessive in her wish of seeing more Valyrian steel and JB goodness in the North! ;)

[wackygoofball]

So that angsty reunion speculation you gave also awakened my angst. The news have spread of the white walkers fleeing south and Jaime meets Sansa. He asks where Brienne is and she shakes her head. Jaime already feels like shit not believing her WW thing and he felt worse. Whether or not he gets back Oathkeeper beforehand, he knows now what he must do. Protect Sansa and the realm, wielding Oathkeeper. I'm done making me sad now xD (disregard if the 1st one was sentxD)

Oh-oh! ;)

Hm, I must say I didn’t hear about that rumor until now - or is that your personaly angsty headcanon?

If you want me to fight the angst, here’s my attempt at it:

What makes me question this somewhat (though of course, that’s just my personal opinion, how the hell would I know if that isn’t just the scenario we’re gonna get?) is that this would presumably happen in season 7. Because the Bastardbowl and the Wall coming down (foreshadowed by Jon’s and Edd’s conversation before he left “Don’t knock it down while I’m gone”) is so climatic that I can’t imagine that they will just spread that over the last few episodes as a sort of “oh yeah, by the way, that also happened”. I mean, that’s a huge deal - and fantastic cliffhanger material. Imagine the shot of the White Walkers standing on the Wall, glancing down with dramatic background music…

*dam-dam-dam-daaaaaaaam*

That means Brienne and Jaime would be separated yet again after they just got back together in presumable episode 7/8 - and that for a very long time (until they’ve filmed the next season). I don’t know, if the show somehow keeps up with the dynamic of the books, I’d find it more likely to have them disappear together, but again, how do I know?

Well, the way I see it, I am more tending towards the option that Jaime and Brienne will momentarily split up after she storms out of the tent, but I don’t know yet if that means they won’t see each other yet again before the sesaon ends. You know, why set up that reunion only to toss all of that emotional immediate turmoil in the trashcan?

I don’t know, my personal impression is that even a cliffhanger stands at the end/beginning of a new chapter. Take Jon as an example. The Hardhome business was wrapped up, and the build-up of the growing mistrust by Thorne and Co. culminated in his murder. So even if his survival was the cliffhanger, the arc was otherwise wrapped up - the kill was the answer to the earlier set-up. Daenerys - same thing. Her new arc was supposed to finally reunite with her old self, and fulfill the prophecy that she has to travel East to travel West (blaaaaaaaaahhhh… is my apparent disinterest showing *gasp* LOL?). The Sons of the Harpy specifically targeting her is also kind over, since it was then supposed to lead up to Tyrion having to deal with that business (because Daenerys… wasn’t really successful…). Jaime had Myrcella dying in his arms, which wrapped up his fatherly hopes of acceptance for the incest via her and gave rise to Ellaria’s and the Sand Snakes’ rise in the next season. Brienne executed Stannis, hence wrapping up that arc to give rise to the next (Sansa, later on Jaime).

I guess the general trend (at least to my understanding) is that even if the audience is kept in suspense about what is to happen next, arcs are still wrapped up in some way. That is why I think that we will arrive at a temporary conclusion for Jaime and Brienne the same way (but again, personal opinions all the way). Their reunion has to be played up to some effect. A possible RW 2.0 from which they escape or that they are taken hostage by the BwB would wrap up their season 6 arc, but with a cliffhanger and outlook for the new season, as to what is going to happen to them next.

I am definitely all up for Jaime getting Oathkeeper and eventually swearing it to a certain cause, but if it will be Sansa primarily? I guess that would only happen if Brienne were to die - and Jaime wishing to continue her legacy, something that I don’t see at all, for obvious reasons.

I hope this made you somehow happier by chance. ;)