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if only tammy went to therapy
For 'Tell Me About Your Song' #82, Jeana Marie DeLaire of Great Gale talked about her song 'Dunes', which is from their album 'Somewhere Moving'.
Somewhere Moving by Great Gale
In the course of our discussion, we touched on the following topics:
The Great Gale of 1815
Bar Harbor, Maine
Acadia National Park
MXR Carbon Copy delay pedal
Provincetown
If you're interested in hearing another version of 'Dunes', Great Gale also recorded it as an NPR Tiny Desk contest submission.
You can hear more of Great Gale's music on Bandcamp, iTunes, and Spotify, and you can also find them on Tumblr and Facebook.
The 'Tell Me About Your Song' icon was designed by Shaenon K. Garrity.
If you want more information about your host, Jacob Haller, then check out my web page, my facebook page, or my twitter account.
'Tell Me About Your Song' on iTunes - rate and review us!
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Episode Transcript:
For 'Tell Me About Your Song' #81, Lucas Kwong of The Brother K Melee talks about his song 'Stranger from the Country'. Sorry for the delay in getting this up -- it's been quite a year!
Stranger From The Country by THE BROTHER K MELEE
In the course of our discussion, we touched on the following topics:
Romanticism Pilate's wife The Stations of the Cross The Great Chain of Being Rashomon Happiness is a Warm Gun A Day in the Life WFMU The Seven Second Delay Almost Amateur Hour: set list / audio
This episode contains a brief excerpt from a live performance of the Brother K Melee's song 'Margery', which you can also find on Bandcamp.
For more information about Lucas's music, as well as his upcoming shows and videos, check out his website at brotherkmusic.com. You can listen to and buy his music on Bandcamp, and he is also on facebook and twitter.
The 'Tell Me About Your Song' icon was designed by Shaenon K. Garrity.
If you want more information about your host, Jacob Haller, then check out my web page, my facebook page, or my twitter account.
'Tell Me About Your Song' on Apple Podcasts - rate and review us!
'Tell Me About Your Song' on Android
'Tell Me About Your Song' rss feed
'Tell Me About Your Song' on Facebook
Episode Transcript:
For 'Tell Me About Your Song' #80, songwriter Zoë Lewis talks about her song 'Plastic Soup', which is from her album 'The Sound of Wings'.
In the course of our discussion, we touched on the following topics:
The Coastal Studies Center in Provincetown
5 Gyres (the organization)
Five gyres (the oceanic currents)
Plastic smog aka plastic soup
The Great Pacific Garbage Patch: not how it's usually pictured, but still terrible
Plastic in the food chain
Cole Porter
Zoë's song 'Snow White' (aka 'The Day Snow White Said The F Word')
For more information about Zoë Lewis, her music, her videos, her two musicals, her upcoming shows, and her albums, go to her website at http://zoelewis.com/.
The 'Tell Me About Your Song' icon was designed by Shaenon K. Garrity.
If you want more information about your host, Jacob Haller, then check out my web page, my facebook page, or my twitter account.
'Tell Me About Your Song' on iTunes - rate and review us!
'Tell Me About Your Song' on stitcher - rate and review us!
'Tell Me About Your Song' rss feed
'Tell Me About Your Song' on Facebook
Episode Transcript:
[BEGINNING OF 'PLASTIC SOUP' PLAYS:]
Swirling around in the beautiful blue somewhere between the equator and you there's a tear in the sky where the albatross flew man and his madness makes nightmares come true unfortunately this is so and that's why I want you to know... There is an island the size of Texas a floating island of piles and piles of plastic it's simply drastic, it's not fantastic because the fishes all eat plastic soup and all the ...
['PLASTIC SOUP' CONTINUES PLAYING UNDER THE FOLLOWING]
JAKE: Hello, and welcome to Tell Me About Your Song, the podcast where I talk to musicians and songwriters about a song they've written. Today I'm talking to Zoë Lewis, and the song she'll be talking about is named ...
['PLASTIC SOUP' CRESCENDOES, THEN FADES OUT:]
... plastic soup! ...
JAKE: Plastic Soup, and is from her album 'The Sound of Wings'. So where would you like to start, Zoë?
ZOË: When you're a songwriter, you start seeing songs all around, and when you get moved by something, or angry about something, you, you know, you're lucky enough to have a platform to be heard -- to put your voice out there. It's lovely! So even if 10 people hear it, that's ok -- 20, 100, you know, and then it escalates. We all have our stories. So, anyway, I'm -- I mean -- I'm pleased with this song, because it's a fun song, but it's Zoë Lewis being political, as much as I am political in my music -- I mean, I am political, in a fun way. You know, people think, "Oh, she's just a funny songwriter," but, you know, you still say your things, you can ease them in, and get your points across -- get them to the people. I'm from a little village on the south coast of England -- I come from the seaside. Now I live in Provincetown, Cape Cod, also by the sea. I need to be living on the edge, and I always gravitate towards beautiful beach towns. Anyway. I love my nature, and, of course, you know, I find plastic all the time, walking on the beach, and pick it up -- have always done so -- traveled the world a lot -- went to India, not too long ago. Couldn't believe how much plastic was strewn all over the place. I mean, everywhere you go, you find it. So I volunteered for the Coastal Studies Center in Provincetown, and they did a beach clean, but it was a fascinating beach clean. I mean, it's pristine -- it looks pristine, at first sight, but when you go underneath the seaweed, and start searching, you'll find all the micro plastic. We found -- In Cape Cod, we get a lot of Maine fishing stuff, because so much is made of plastic -- things used to be made of rope in the old days. Now, you know, everything -- everything's plastic. We use so much plastics. We started documenting the different plastic -- every tiny piece -- the wrappers, the straws, the bottle caps, unidentifiable plastic Styrofoam ...
[EXCERPT FROM 'PLASTIC SOUP' PLAYS:]
... on red balloons, plastic cups for plastic tea, just throw it all into the sea!
ZOË: Anyway, it was very interesting. At the end, you know, when you tally it all up, what you find are where the currents come from, you know, in different times of year, in different beaches on the Cape ... So, anyway, we brought a huge boat back, laden, from the tip of Cape Cod, to the main part of the land, and then, every year, I've been volunteering, and I was really moved by their work, and, you know, I started looking up statistics, and I was just blown away, and that's when I discovered 5 Gyres, which is a great organization, and the Gyres, you know, if you didn't know about them -- all the plastic that goes into the ocean, heads out to the currents, and there were five large gyres where the currents meet, and that's where all the plastic goes, and it never breaks down, because plastic doesn't break down, it just gets smaller and smaller and smaller. So some call it plastic smog, some call it plastic soup. So I imagined the ocean full of plastic soup and, you know, I read a lot of stuff -- the North Pacific garbage patch -- they were saying that
[EXCERPT FROM 'PLASTIC SOUP' PLAYS:]
There is an island the size of Texas a floating island of piles and piles of plastic
ZOË: Now, apparently, it's -- that's, you know, fabricated. But it's gigantic, anyway. And it's not really an island. It's just tons of swirling plastic. And I started looking up more about it, and about all the pollution, and the devastation it causes to the animals, and, you know, the oceans, ocean life -- the fish, of course, and the birds, and the mammals, and the -- They have done experim -- you know, cut the birds open, when they found a dead bird, and found so much plastic in its belly, albatrosses, and turtles, and I collected all the info, and I wrote my song, and it really kind of took off! I made a little video. it went viral, and it's used in schools now, and now I organize -- because, you know, because I sing it all the time, and and people come, and now I'm a advocate for cleaning beaches, and I organize beach cleans, and it just -- For me, it's just -- I don't even feel like joining an organization. I mean, I have played now for 5 Gyres, but, really, it's, like, we have the power! We can just pick up plastic ourselves! We can do it. I mean, if everyone just picked up a few bits, then the beautiful nature would be much better. We can make a dent in the plastic. But most importantly, really -- and particularly when I read about it -- you know, it's fine to pick up the plastic, but, really, we shouldn't use plastic. You know, always at the gigs, I'm given a plastic water bottle to drink from. And now i refuse it. I tell my band, don't -- We're not having wood, you know. So I have to make sure we've got glass, or we've got our own reusable water bottles. You know, you can stand up there and be a hypocrite. It's very easy to put be one.
[EXCERPT FROM 'PLASTIC SOUP' PLAYS:]
And the solution to this pollution? Stop using plastic, cut down on plastic
JAKE: Yeah. The tone of it is kind of like -- I mean it -- It reminds me -- You know, if you tweaked it a bit, it would be, like, a super villain song, right?
ZOË: [snorts]
JAKE: Because you can just sing it with such glee, and, yet it's about this terrible thing. Like, do you know what I'm talking about?
ZOË: Yeah. It's evil.
JAKE: Right.
ZOË: Yeah.
[EXCERPT FROM 'PLASTIC SOUP' PLAYS:]
And all the seagulls and the tiny turtles colossal whales are full of plastic
ZOË: And everyone's screaming out "No" by the end of the song, [laughs] because I make them.
[EXCERPT FROM 'PLASTIC SOUP' PLAYS:]
Do you want some soup? NO Would you like some soup? NO Fancy some soup? NO We don't want your soup!
ZOË: That's funny that it's a super villain song. Yeah, well, it's ominous. I mean, it's ominous, but, you know, I don't want to just say, "Oh, it's terrible. We're killing the Earth. Bye."
JAKE: Yeah.
ZOË: But, really, that's what the song's about, but it's in a Cole Porteresque sort of way, with funny rhymes. And you don't turn people off then, and it still gives you some hope that you can change the world, and that you can -- You can be positive, even though you're screaming "No!", and make a change.
JAKE: Mm-hmm. Did it have that kind of feel from the beginning?
ZOË: Well, you know, I'm English, so it's, like, "Would you like some soup? Fancy some soup?" You know, force feeding people soup, and you're, like, screaming "No!". And always like that part. You know, like, even though my music's not punk, I have a little punk rock in me, and I like to "No!", you know. I like to get people screaming "No!" and be angry. But, you know, with tongue in cheek. I mean, I had fun writing -- you know, I like to rhyme, and I had fun writing some of the lines, but, yeah. I knew it how it was going. When I get the chorus, I usually know how I'm going to add to it.
JAKE: Yeah. And it's also -- I feel like, I mean, that there are so many words in the song. I feel like the avalanche of words also kind of gets across this avalanche of plastic.
ZOË: Huh.
JAKE: I don't know. Is that --? A lot of these are connections that are made up in my mind, but I just sort of put them out there.
ZOË: Oh, good. I'm very -- I love -- I love that you think that. [laughter] Oh, yes, of course it was meant, then, to ... [laughter] No. I actually cut a verse at the end, because it was like, "Come on. It's getting too long." Because I was having fun. You know, this one just spilled off, and it was fun to write. I enjoyed it. I mean, I knew what I wanted to write. There's so many facts you could put in. I mean, it's quite factual, so, you know, basically, I'm just saying all the different creatures are full of plastic, and we're turning into plastic, you know, and it just -- from the food chain, and the jellyfishes, it just gets passed down. And it's a whole plastic society, anyway, and you can read that in so many ways, and we're getting so out of touch with nature. So, yeah, I knew. At this point it was clear.
JAKE: Mm-hmm.
ZOË: I mean, it's just a simple song, but it was written -- I mean, I love the Cole Porter and the rhyming, and, my gosh, there's a lot of words, so if I start the song too fast, especially when I get to the bridge, like, I have a hard time breathing. [both laugh] And, what is it, I go:
Plastic bags, plastic wraps, plastic bottles, plastic caps, styrofoam and lobster traps North Pacific garbage patch! [takes a deep breath] plastic forks, plastic spoons, plastic string on red balloons, plastic cups for plastic tea, just throw it all into the sea!
So it's -- I have to keep calm, and not be too excited, before the song, otherwise I'm race-horsing through it. My favorite line is "Even the porpoise is feeling nauseous." I was pleased when nauseous rhymed with porpoise.
[EXCERPT FROM 'PLASTIC SOUP' PLAYS:]
even the porpoise is feeling nauseous because he can't digest the plastic soup and in the food chain....
ZOË: The porpoise feeling nauseous -- I do like it -- because when I deliver it in shows, I kind of linger, and people give me a little giggle. They give me a little titter at that point. I'm always pleased when a line works. You know, there's usually one point in a song, they like it. But I end, you know, even though it's all "No!", I end up saying, well, we can make a change, and we can -- You know, we've got to cut down on plastic! We can save the world. You know, when I organize beach cleans now, tons of people come, and it's really, it's fun, and then they start their own beach cleans, and then they -- You know, I did a gig in Boston, and the people were like, "Can we do a collection for the 5 Gyres?" "Yeah." You know, people -- It's my pet, you know, thing. People like to put me, they pair me with the plastic pollution now. It's Kind of like, that's what people think: "Hey! You're the beach clean one! Can you do that song?" You know.
JAKE: Mm-hmmm.
ZOE: Good. So I like to -- That's one of the reasons why I chose it, when you asked me, too, because I can get the point across, too, through all the different media.
JAKE: Have you gotten any particularly memorable responses to this one?
ZOË: More that people buy the album, and go back and play it to their classrooms, you know.
JAKE: Yeah. ZOE: And, oh, I did have -- I was contacted from France! It made it to France, for some cleanup group, and they made a video of their beach plane, and they used the song, and then they use it on their website. You know, I always let everyone use it for free. And, yeah, it's out there. So, you never know where a song goes, and who's sharing it. You know, I like to get people to join me on stage, because it shows the more people that help, the more power, or louder, we can be, the more more noise we can make about it, and the more change we can achieve, and everyone's happy to yell "No!" No one wants to keep it like this. So it's universal.
JAKE: Mm-hmmm.
ZOË: I mean, at least the ones who come to my gigs. [laughter] And you don't even have to make an organization. Just go and clean! People often come up to me in Provincetown. They say, "We thought of you the other day. We were dragging plastic off the beach." [chuckles] You know, and then other people are like, "Oh, yeah, since we heard your song, we're gonna go, and -- We always bring three pieces." Because sometimes I say, "Just bring three. You don't have to, you know, bring it all." I mean. But it gets quite addictive. You can't stop. You start seeing more and more of it, and then you can't -- it's -- I always tie it all together, and come back with huge amounts, and then have to call the Rangers and say, "Please, can you come pick it up," because they can't deal with it, you know.
JAKE: Mm-hmmm.
ZOË: And then it goes to show -- And then they always put it on Facebook, and people are like, "Wow." You know, that's another way -- People are, "My God, you found all that stuff." So, I'm like, "Well, you just go and pick some, you'll soon find find a huge pile." So yes. I'm an optimistic, jovial, performer, but this is a bummer. [laughter] It certainly is.
JAKE: Yeah. It's a rough one.
ZOË: I also like to -- You know, try, for a whole gig, I take people on a roller coaster ride, and try and, you know, make some points, and then take them off on a humorous angle, and then hit them in the gut with an emotional song, and then be silly again. You know, it's life.
JAKE: Mm-hmmm.
ZOË: It's life, and that's what I try and do in the show.
JAKE: Yeah. Is there a particular place that this tends to go in a set?
ZOË: Well, on the album, it's the second song. I usually build it -- Because it's got audience participation, I usually leave it till later on. If I'm doing two sets, I'll leave that to the penultimate song of the first set. Maybe near the end of the second set. Depends who's, you know, if there's kids, or what kind of, you know, I tailor-make it for the crowd, but I've had all sorts of people up.
JAKE: Mm-hmm.
ZOË: I've had a whole ton of punk rockers, once, holding to 'No!" signs, and that was great.
JAKE: That sounds fantastic. ZOE: Yeah. [laughter]
JAKE: Because I feel like this song -- you know, it has -- It's not a kids song, per se -- like, there's some sophistication to it -- but I feel like kids also would enjoy, and get the message, and everything, so ...
ZOË: Yeah. I don't write "kids music." I just write music. But I do have a ton of kid fans. I would never want to talk down to kids, and simplify things. But the music's fun, and I find I have lots of kids who come to the shows, and, in the summer, when I play in Provincetown, we do outside gigs, and I have rows and rows of little ones in the front, wanting to come and join in. It's like -- Nowadays, kids music -- Well the, you know -- It's a huge moneymaker. And, you know, nowadays, there's bands that the parents quite like, too. In the old days, they didn't, they couldn't bear kids music. But, you know, I don't classify myself as kids music, but it's, like, for the kids in us. I'm very pleased the kids come. I do have a song called "The Day That Snow White Said The F Word," and that is the most popular song with school children, whether or not their parents like is another ...
JAKE: Not your problem!
ZOË: Not my problem! I don't actually say the F word.
JAKE: No.
[EXCERPT FROM 'SNOW WHITE' PLAYS:]
When she came down to Orlando, she was only just eighteen. Got a room in a condo complex, and a job inside her childhood dream, And she started as a teacup, and she made friends with the spool, and the theme park was an oyster, for her eyes were wider than the moon. And through the little window ...
JAKE: So, if people would like to hear more of your music, what should they do?
ZOË: OK. Well, you can go to www.zoelewis.com, and I've got all my albums up there, there's videos, I've written two musicals -- there's information on that -- and I do a 1920s show, too. And I'm touring all over the world, all the time, in between picking up plastic.
JAKE: Yes. And I saw Zoë when she performed in Providence, and that was a great show, so I recommend you seek her out!
ZOË: Hooray!
JAKE: So my name's Jacob Haller, and, if you're interested in my music, it's at music.jwgh.org, and I also have a kind of umbrella website at jacobhaller.com where you can find the music, and all my podcasts, and all the other crazy stuff I'm doing. Tell Me About Your Song has its own website at tellmeaboutyoursong.com, and you can find it and rate it in iTunes, and any place where podcast can be found, which I hope you do. And, with all that said, we're going to go out by listening to the song that we've been talking about in full: "Plastic Soup" by Zoë Lewis, from the album "The Sound of Wings." Thanks for listening!
["PLASTIC SOUP" PLAYS IN FULL]
JAKE: Yeah, and it's always kind of interesting -- like, you know, the song that she chose to talk about is one of the relatively serious ones, and
ZOË: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
JAKE: It's interesting. I mean, I -- Most of my songs are kind of humorous, as well, so... ZOE: Mm-hmm.
JAKE: I think it's always interesting when someone with more of a humorous bent takes on, you know, something more serious than it --
ZOË: Yeah.
JAKE: It's --
ZOË: Well, it's -- I think it's, like, also when, I mean, if you just think quickly, when you're not, you know -- You think, "Oh, well, I'd better do that has some, that has a story to it. I've got to talk a while about it." [laughter] You know? It's like --
JAKE: Yes. [laughter]
ZOË: Eh. What can I say? I better be saying something important. [laughter]
JAKE: Yeah.
ZOË: Like, it's about a child's tadpole. I just saw a tadpole, and it was nice, so I wanted to write about it. [laughs] There we are! End of interview, thank you very much. [laughter]
JAKE: Yup. All right. This is the fifteen second --
ZOË: Yeah.
JAKE: -- episode that everyone's been waiting for.
ZOË: Yeah.
For 'Tell Me About Your Song' #79, songwriter Marian Call talked about her song 'Oregon Trail', which is from her album 'Standing Stones'.
Wikipedia has articles about the actual historical Oregon Trail, as well as the 1970s/1980s education game 'The Oregon Trail'. The idea of the 'Oregon Trail Generation' was described in a 2015 article named 'The Oregon Trail Generation: Life Before and After Mainstream Tech' by Anna Garvey in Social Media Week.
I also recommend an essay that Marian Call wrote about her song 'Standing Stones', which is the song that follows 'Oregon Trail' on the Standing Stones album.
In our discussion, I made reference to Marian Call's interview on 'Make Me Smart', which you can hear on the Marketplace website.
More information about Marian Call and her music can be found on her website, where you can also find out about any upcoming shows. You can get her music on Bandcamp, as well as most other places where music is sold. She is also on twitter, facebook, and Patreon.
The 'Tell Me About Your Song' icon was designed by Shaenon K. Garrity.
If you want more information about your host, Jacob Haller, then check out my web page, my facebook page, or my twitter account.
'Tell Me About Your Song' on Apple Podcasts - rate and review us!
'Tell Me About Your Song' on stitcher - rate and review us!
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Episode Transcript:
[BEGINNING OF 'OREGON TRAIL' PLAYS:]
And we set out in the springtime with our bindles and our boots, And we reveled in our poverty, abandoning our roots. A brand new path, adventurers, All lonely, bold, and brave, Breaking free and making do, And telling tales of how we'd save ourselves.
JACOB: Hello and welcome to Tell Me About Your Song, the podcast where I talk to musicians and songwriters about a song they've written. Today, I'm talking to Marian Call, and the song she'll be talking about is named 'Oregon Trail'. So, where would you like to start, Marian?
MARIAN: This is part of a record called 'Standing Stones,' and, in that record, one of the things I'm interested in looking at is the stories we tell ourselves. Like, the myths that we have about who we are, and the myths of, you know, Western culture, myths of America. And this is one of those myths, the Oregon Trail, right? It's about being stron,g and independent, and adventurous, and setting out on your own, and conquering the landscape, and finding a place for yourself -- You know, all the things that we -- All things we want to do, in sort of our individualist society. It's about self actualization, and about claiming a space in the world, and that myth is so important to us. But I've been thinking a lot about how it doesn't necessarily hold up, either to our experience, or to a good model. Like, it might seem exciting to think of being a pioneer, and going out, and, you know, finding your own way in the world, but the more you actually read about what it would have been like back then, about (a) how horrid it was; (b) about the myths that the pioneers were often being sold about "Free land out west!" when, of course, that land was already occupied, and about the idea that it was our destiny to command and control the landscape and to have, you know, a country from sea to sea. That was not a given; that was a something that we decided, and then we made it real. And that may or may not have been a decision that sat well with everyone who was affected by it. Part of why I wanted to write about this was that it is one of our founding mythologies, you know? It's a real historic event, but it's also a mythos that is larger than this one event, and that's why I wanted to tackle it, and both honor it, and dismantle it, at the same time. [laughs] You know, every now and then, those think pieces come along about generations, and what millennials are doing, and what Gen X is doing, and everything like that, and I was part of this cohort -- and a lot of my friends were, too -- that fell kind of between Generation X and Y and millennials --
JACOB: Mmm-hm.
MARIAN: -- and we never got a name, but I still feel like our experience is kind of fundamentally different, and we're too young to be Generation X, but definitely too old to have a similar experience to millennials, in a lot of ways. And I read several articles in which some scholars and demographers argue for the existence of a Generation Oregon Trail, which is kind of a small cohort. I think it's like 1976 to 1987, or something like that -- or 1986.
JACOB: Mmm-hm.
MARIAN: And that describes the generation of people who started school -- like, started, you know, their first few years of school -- without networked computing, but, by the time they completed school, the Internet was fully fledged and running. And so, like, kids after us grew up typing from the time they were, you know, very, very small. They don't remember before computers in the home, and before computers in school, to do all their tasks. In fact they stopped needing to even offer keyboarding classes in a lot of schools. They didn't teach typing anymore, because the kids would just arrive at school already knowing how to type.
JACOB: Mmm.
MARIAN: And that was not true for my group! We had to go through hours and hours of typing classes, Mavis Beacon and all the rest. So this song is about the peculiar life of that particular generation. I think this cohort of people is really cool, and inspiring, and interesting, and innovative, and has made a lot of cool things, but at the same time, there's a little a little bit of a sense of opportunity drying up, in a lot of ways, and I wanted to write something about that, and I thought the Oregon Trail was a perfect allegory for it. It describes the name of the generation because of that video game we all played, and it also describes a sort of a modern look back at that journey, that has been mythologized as one of the cornerstones of the American story, you know? Did you play Oregon Trail when you were young.
JACOB: Oh yes!
MARIAN: I did, too. Several different generations of it, too, from the, like, big floppy disk, to the little floppy disk, to the hard drive version, to the -- Apparently, someone told me there was an Oregon Trail 2, and, like, an Amazon Trail, and they kind of did a couple of spin offs and sequels, which surprised me. I hadn't heard of those, but --
JACOB: Yeah, I had no idea.
MARIAN: Yeah. Hundreds of people have gotten in touch with me, to tell me, like, how this hit a nostalgia spot for them. So, yeah. I'm kind of revising that history in this song. Like, it starts out really great. It's, you know, 'We set out adventurous --'
[BEGINNING OF 'OREGON TRAIL' PLAYS:]
And we set out in the springtime with our bindles and our boots, And we reveled in our poverty, abandoning our roots. A brand new path, adventurers, All lonely, bold, and brave, Breaking free and making do, And telling tales of how we'd save ourselves.
MARIAN: And then we gradually realised that it wasn't just us. It was everyone else.
['OREGON TRAIL' CONTINUES:]
'Til everybody else we knew Had started on the journey too. Then we were not phenomenal, no, we were not phenomenal. We never were phenomenal, Just part of our whole generation's vague instinctive mass migration. We were not exceptional, no we were not exceptional. We never were exceptional. We were longing longing longing though, And true. We were dreaming that the world was dreaming too.
MARIAN: And maybe we were being brave and individual, and making our own choices, but maybe we were also just part of this kind of global phenomenon that we couldn't really control.
[AN INSTRUMENTAL PART OF 'OREGON TRAIL' CONTINUES BRIEFLY.]
MARIAN: The opening sense of possibility that we had, as young people, when the Internet was new, was very much hit by, you know, two different bubble bursts. First, the Silicon Valley, and kind of that portion of the economy -- realizing, no, the internet doesn't do everything, and it doesn't change everything. It does some things, but not all of them. And then the housing bubble burst -- that, no, we can't all own a home on the income that we have. No, we're never going to pay off our student loans. No, we're never going to get out of credit card debt.
JACOB: Mmm-hm.
MARIAN: No, we're never going to stop moving around the country. I think the number of times a person my age has changed cities is just, like, astounding now. it's really -- it's so different from the generation before. This is also part of a song cycle, and this is kind of in the middle beginning of it, so there's some resolution that answers this song a little bit later in the album. This is in the 'What are we doing?' stage at the late beginning on the record. I wanted it to start feeling like a very wholesome folk song, like -- I'm working on a folk festival this weekend, and I wanted it to sound just like a good old classic tune, you know? Maybe a little more complicated words, but the same chords, and the same feel, as, you know, a Willie Nelson kind of song.
JACOB: And the harmonies, too.
MARIAN: Yeah, the harmonies, exactly, are very straight at the beginning.
[EXCERPT FROM 'OREGON TRAIL' PLAYS:]
Surrendering exceptional to lighten up the load, We woke up ...
[SONG CONTINUES PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND.]
MARIAN: But the deeper into the song you get, the more your perspective shifts, sort of. I think of it as, like, a moment when the sky opens, and suddenly you realize that the world is so much bigger than you thought.
['OREGON TRAIL CONTINUES:]
And the World Was all a road ...
MARIAN: And that occurs in the middle of the song, and we have this big, kind of -- We have a big, and sort of shocking, key change. It's not the way you would usually change keys from A to E by way of a C major chord, which is not in either key, but it's -- That's the pivot between those two worlds. And it's meant to feel this grand opening into a much larger universe.
[EXCERPT FROM 'OREGON TRAIL' PLAYS:]
We bought some land out west, Though nowhere seemed to feel like home. And digging in the yard we found somebody else's bones. The moment that the shovel hit, We bowed before the things we should have known.
MARIAN: Gradually, our speaker realizes that they thought they were going out into empty space to make a name for themselves, and, in fact, they were going out into someone else's space. And that doesn't feel very good.
[EXCERPT FROM 'OREGON TRAIL' PLAYS:]
Of course we're not the first ones here. We never were the first ones here. Just part of our whole generation's Childish frontier re-creation.
[SONG CONTINUES PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND.]
MARIAN: But if you don't do that, then there's not enough food, there's not enough security. It's a little bit of a story of getting lost along the way growing up.
['OREGON TRAIL CONTINUES:]
... adventurers We were longing longing longing and so lost We were barely what we needed, and it cost.
MARIAN: And it reminds me of a lot of friends my age. I do have some friends my age who are married and have, you know, houses, and kids, and things. But, you know, coming on 40, it's not nearly as many of us as we thought, right? And a lot of us are not housed, or are moving around the country all the time, you know, not settling in one city, or we're not -- we're divorcing and remarrying, or not settling into a family structure, getting old enough to be like: "Well, I guess I'm not having kids, then," without it really being ever a voluntary choice. I think that's one of those surprises that hits you along the trail, and that's what this song is about. [laughs] After we transition to E, then I start adding chords that are more modern -- chords that were not in the original, sort of, lexicon of vintage country music.
[EXCERPT FROM 'OREGON TRAIL' PLAYS:]
... the first ones here. Just part of our whole generation's Childish frontier re-creation. We were not adventurers. No, we were not adventurers. We never were adventurers! We were longing longing longing ...
MARIAN: So I started adding, like, a flat seven chord, a D major chord, and I start adding minor IV chords, and it gets, basically, just messier and messier. It's like the chord progression sort of starts to disintegrate. And, at the end, the harmonies get weirder, and weirder, and weirder, and then the harmonies kind of fall apart, too. And the two backing voices kind of abandon the main voice, and wander off on their own, and get lost.
[EXCERPT FROM 'OREGON TRAIL' PLAYS:]
No, we have not found shelter yet. We've eaten what we meant to plant, And the twelve ages of man are circling hungry overhead -- And grandmother would disapprove. We will make no more miles today.
MARIAN: It's really -- it's fun. It's like the oxen have run away. [both laugh] Yeah.
JACOB: Yeah.
MARIAN: It's actually a reference to a videogame, too. There's a lot of videogames in this song, not just Oregon Trail. I got hooked on 'Don't Starve', which is a ridiculous -- [chuckles] It's just, it's a very silly videogame. It's a survival game --
JACOB: Uh-huh.
MARIAN: -- and I played way too much of it in the year that I was writing this record, and it informed a lot of my thinking about just, like, what it really does take to survive. When you eat the seeds that you were supposed to put in the ground, you know, you survive another day, but you've jeopardized your future, and that's very much, you know, me and my other, kind of like, late 30s friends, having to spend our savings, or still being in debt, without any sort of assets. And it's not meant to be too hopeless, but it is meant to be, like, a moment of clarity, that I set out on this journey, and realizing we're not as far as we thought we were, and we haven't found anywhere to stop and plant.
JACOB: And it says, "The 12 ages of man are circling hungry overhead."
MARIAN: Uh-huh. And I have 11 songs that are divided by those 12 ages of man.
JACOB: Ah.
MARIAN: Yeah. I really worked on the structure of this one, because I like the idea of -- The 12 Ages of Man is sort of a late medieval pre-Renaissance Western European idea that, if a person lived all 12 ages of man, they could get to be 72. So there were 12 ages, and they were six years each, and they corresponded to, like, the months of the year, and they corresponded to the seasons, and to the horoscope, and to a map of the body, and everything. They sort of connected all these things that weren't necessarily connected. But I liked that idea, and so I have these 11 songs that are about different stages of life, and this one is very much the, like, getting out of college, and then realizing that it's not as easy as you thought, you know? [laughs]
JACOB: Mmm-hm.
MARIAN: Late 20s/early 30s. You've accomplished so much, and you've been set on this grand trajectory, and then you get out there in the world, and you're like, "Oh! Hang on!" it's kind of a letdown. But there's more to come in the story.
JACOB: You were talking about this in terms of it being part of a song cycle, so: What comes before this, and what comes after it?
MARIAN: What comes before this, is a song about about childhood, about being young, exuberant, and feeling like you can fill up your whole world, or like the world cannot contain you. It's a song called 'No Paper'. The original working title was 'Lauds', which is the name of the prayer for that hour of the day, that corresponds to the Twelve Ages of Man, that corresponds to all this big structure that I was kind of plugging into, from early, like, Renaissance literature. [laughs] You can leave that out, if you want.
[EXCERPT FROM 'NO PAPER' PLAYS:]
There is no paper big enough for what I'm going to draw today.
MARIAN: It's a crazy rhythm jam, actually, with very little melody, but it has, like, a horn section, and some really wild harmonies, and just insane electric guitar. It's a very, like, expressive, creative, kind of Jackson Pollock-y song, about being young, and feeling full of possibility. It's also about protests, and protest sign,s and marching. The line is "There is no paper big enough for what I'm going to draw today." And it's just -- There's nothing that can contain me, or that can contain my message, and, you know, that feels very youthful to me. Both about, like, little kids, before they learn that -- Before they learn that art is supposed to look a certain way, and they're just like scribbling filling up the whole page, and, like, just the energy that people have, like, in college, when they're learning everything, and excited, and have a lot of passion, and so: Yeah. It's kind of a younger age.
[EXCERPT FROM 'OREGON TRAIL' PLAYS:]
We never were adventurers. We were longing longing longing and so lost.
MARIAN: And then, we transition to this song, which is a little bit, like, "Well, we thought we were going to go out into the world and conquer it, and then we had another think, after we got out there."
JACOB: Mm hmm.
MARIAN: And the song after it is the title track. It's called 'Standing Stones.'
[BEGINNING OF 'STANDING STONES' PLAYS:]
We drew nine lines from east to west We drew nine from north to south And we stitched our names in concrete veins Through miles and miles and miles of ground
MARIAN: It sort of reconciles that. It's about how our impulse to build things, and make things, and design, and scratch, and leave our mark, and change the environment -- how that impulse is really universal -- we all have it -- and also how it's impermanent. Like, it's going to pass away, but that doesn't matter, because it's just what we do, and that's beautiful. It's really, it's a validation of humanity, in the middle of acknowledging that we have a finite span, so, yep! And then it goes on, kind of more into, like, middle age, and then midlife crisis, of course, and then into a kind of acceptance. Some of the other songs on this record are much, much less complex. This one's through composed. Like, the chords don't necessarily repeat, and the lyrics don't repeat very much. But, yeah, it does reward repeat listening. It's definitely a journey. And hopefully catchy, too. Like, people will be leaving humming it, even though they can't remember any other words because they don't repeat!
JACOB: Have you played this song out?
MARIAN: Yeah, we play it out, and it's hard to communicate that groove change --
JACOB: Mmm.
MARIAN: -- So I just kind of have to do without it. But that's part of why I was so excited to put it on a record, too, and have it sound different on the record. I like doing it out. I wish -- I would love -- I would just die to do it with a trio --
JACOB: Mmm-hm.
MARIAN: -- you know, so we could sing all the harmonies. But that's, again, the joy of getting to record it! There's a video for it, that I really am proud of. Pat Race made an Oregon Trail style video of it, and, as it happened, somehow someone pinged the son of the man who created Oregon Trail -- one of the two men who created Oregon Trail. And he emailed me, and then his dad e-mailed me! So I got a message from the creator of Oregon Trail, which was great! [laughs]
JACOB: Wow, that's awesome! What did they say?
MARIAN: They really liked it! That was -- that made me happy! I was shocked and surprised. His name is Don Rawitsch, and he got in touch just to say that he was honored by the tribute, and that he thought it was interesting. Says, "Thanks for the tribute to the pioneers, and the game I co-invented 45 years ago."
JACOB: Wow.
MARIAN: And I can't believe it was 45 years ago, because I experienced it more like 33 years ago.
JACOB: Mmm-hm.
MARIAN: But yeah. [laughs]
JACOB: Yeah, that video is great. I watched -- Like, I started watching it, and then I kind of had it on in the background, and I thought it was just the actual game, and then I went back and looked at it, and I was, like, "Wait a minute!" One of the things is a cellphone charger, and --
MARIAN: Yep, yep, yep, there's --
JACOB: -- and you come across this pile of skulls, I think, right around where the modulation occurs.
MARIAN: Yeah. It takes some twists. We were hoping, actually, that, at the beginning, people would think it was just kind of a GIF that repeats, you know, and doesn't really go anywhere.
JACOB: Mmm-hm.
MARIAN: But, gradually, it kind of gets wilder, and wilder, and takes you out of our safe little sweet country song beginning.
JACOB: I think that this idea is one that I stole from Kai Ryssdal, because I listened to your interview -- or, I didn't know if it was an interview, per se -- but when you were on "Make Me Smart" --
MARIAN: That was fun. [chuckles]
JACOB: -- but he kind of asked you about, you know, being in Alaska, and kind of engaging in this sort of pioneering spirit that's involved in living up there.
MARIAN: Well, I think the connection is very much that, if ever there were a place where that American mythos is embodied, it's Alaska, for sure. There's there's some very bold, strong, self-reliant, competent people up here, you know? You can love them or hate them, but people kind of assume that you can split your own wood, and maybe fly a plane, and it's weirdly, like, one of the most and least sexist places I've ever been.
JACOB: Mmm-hm.
MARIAN: The most, because we have really difficult rates of abuse, and things like that, here, because there's a lot of substance issues. But it's also the least, in that people -- People here very much assume that I run my own business. They don't think I'm arm candy when I go to a party, right?
JACOB: Mmm-hm.
MARIAN: We've had women politicians at a higher rate than a lot of other states. We have tons of women business owners. And if you're out at a cabin, people won't flinch when they give you a tough job. They won't be surprised if you pick up something heavy to carry it, you know? It's just very -- It's nice! I like it! I like the presumption of my competence, even if I'm not always competent. [both laugh] But the funny thing is, up here in the land of the most independent people anywhere, is where I find that people are very, very clear on the fact that we're not independent. None of us are independent. We all rely on each other, and we're all connected in really concrete ways, like, you know, so and so does this job, and so and so does that job, and, in a tiny town, they're the only people who do it. We need them, and we rely on them, so we have to take care of them. I know people who have literally gone out into the woods, to their own property, to clear logs, use those logs to turn them into a cabin, live in that cabin in the summertime, you know, and have just cut every board themselves, right? But those people are the ones who are the most aware that if they, you know, if they slip up and hurt themselves, and they don't have a friend, then they're screwed. You know, if they don't have help -- if they don't have everyone else to come over and assist at the crucial moment -- then their house is not going to get put up. You can't do it yourself, in this -- The kind of twofold lesson here is, you can be as independent as you want, but you can't do it yourself, and especially when nature is really a factor, the way it is here. And I really like that. So that's what -- that's kind of what this whole record is about, is, you can you can be as independent and strong as you like, but we still need each other. Alaska has had a huge influence on this record. [laughs] It's like embracing it, and at the same time unmasking, the pioneering spirit, as being a lot more complicated, and a lot less pure, and not at all what we dreamed it was.
JACOB: Mmm-hm.
MARIAN: It doesn't look how we thought, in the movies. [chuckles] In the video game.
JACOB: Right. So, if people would like to hear more of your music, what should they do?
MARIAN: You can hear more of my music -- I have ten albums now, and then a few singles -- at bandcamp.com/mariancall. So just look me up on bandcamp, you can find me on YouTube, you can find me on Twitter, you can find me at a Facebook page, and you can find me on Patreon, now. That's new. The new album is just on Bandcamp, as of right now. It should be up in a lot of other locations very shortly. You know iTunes, and Spotify, and all that.
JACOB: Great. And I'll put links to all of that. I put together a blog post --
MARIAN: Oh, excellent. Thank you!
JACOB: -- for each episode, so I'll put links to that, and that blog is at yoursongpodcast.tumblr.com [spells it]. So my name is Jacob Haller, and I have a website at JacobHaller.com. You can find all my music there, or on bandcamp, and links to my other podcasts and projects, and, as I mentioned, there's a Tumblr blog for the show notes at yoursongpodcast.tumblr.com. And there's also a Web site for the podcast at tellmeaboutyoursong.com. You can write interview us on iTunes, or Stitcher, or any of those places, and I would love it if you did that -- or just tell a friend. If you think they would enjoy this episode, send them a link. So, with all that said, we're going to go out and listen to the song we've been talking about: 'Oregon Trail' by Marion Call, from her album 'Standing Stones'. Thanks for listening.
['OREGON TRAIL' PLAYS IN FULL. YOU CAN FIND THE FULL LYRICS ON MARIAN CALL'S BANDCAMP PAGE.]
JACOB: So where would you like to start, Marion?
MARIAN: [laughs] Um...
JACOB: See? I warned you, and it still is totally --
MARIAN: Oh, you -- you were serious about that! Yeah.
For 'Tell Me About Your Song' #78, songwriter Nicole Alifante talked about her song 'Before I Go', which is from her album 'La La La'.
You can buy Nicole's albums on her website.
The 'Tell Me About Your Song' icon was designed by Shaenon K. Garrity.
If you want more information about your host, Jacob Haller, then check out my web page, my facebook page, or my twitter account.
'Tell Me About Your Song' on iTunes - rate and review us!
'Tell Me About Your Song' on stitcher - rate and review us!
'Tell Me About Your Song' rss feed
'Tell Me About Your Song' on Facebook
Episode Transcript:
For this special Christmas edition of 'Tell Me About Your Song' (episode #77), songwriter Tracie Potochnik talks about her song 'The Ballad of Harvey the Elf', which can be found on her band Cardboard Ox's album 'A Cardboard Ox Christmas', which is available for free download from Bandcamp.
This episode also includes excerpts from Tracie's conversations with her delightful parents, Ed and Judy Potochnik.
A Cardboard Ox Christmas by Cardboard Ox
I should note that there were some audio problems during my interview with Tracie, which I didn't catch until after it was too late to rerecord. I apologize for the resulting audio quality of this episode (but I think it's still fun to listen to, and I hope you do too!).
In the course of our discussion, we touched on the following topics:
Hermey the Elf from the Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer Christmas special
The Year Without A Santa Claus and the Snow and Heat Miser
The Lifesavers Sweet Storybook
The Hot Club in Providence
The canonical list of Santa's reindeer
Lothario
The Vogues
Tracie's song "So Sad Dad"
Talky country songs, including:
'A Boy Named Sue', sung by Johnny Cash, written by Shel Silverstein
'Joshua', written and recorded by Dolly Parton
'Dang Me', written and performed by Roger Miller
"It already is burning to the ground. It's 2016 December."
Past guest Steve Allain, who, with Tracie, forms the duo Cardboard Ox
This song is one of those included on Cardboard Ox's free 2016 album, 'A Cardboard Ox Christmas'. You can find out more about Cardboard Ox on their website, and more about Tracie on her own website.
The 'Tell Me About Your Song' icon was designed by Shaenon K. Garrity.
If you want more information about your host, Jacob Haller, then check out my web page, my facebook page, or my twitter account.
'Tell Me About Your Song' on iTunes - rate and review us!
'Tell Me About Your Song' on stitcher - rate and review us!
'Tell Me About Your Song' rss feed
'Tell Me About Your Song' on Facebook
Episode Transcript:
For 'Tell Me About Your Song' #76, Sonny Roelle and Geoff Griffin of the Sentimental Favorites talked about their song 'Roelle Family Christmas', which can be found on their album 'The Unrelenting Sentimental Favorites'.
The Unrelenting Sentimental Favorites by The Sentimental Favorites
In the course of our discussion, we touched on the following topics:
Christmas
AS220
Taking the Christ out of Christmas
Past performers at the Sentimental Favorites Holiday Matinee:
Jacob Haller
The Superchief Trio
The Double Decker Dance Band
The Iditarod
Deer Tick
Dan Blakeslee
Will Schaff
Richard Goulis
Garfield
Eggnog
Cool Whip
LEGO sets
Mad Magazine
Model Railroaders
Bowling shoes
Nerds
Combos
Durkee french fried onion rings
'Put The Plow Down', another Sentimental Favorites song
For more Sentimental Favorites music, invite them to your house or event, or go to their website, their Bandcamp page, or to 75orLess Records. The next five people to order an album through their Bandcamp page will get a free poster with all of the lyrics from 'The Unrelenting Sentimental Favorites' on it.
The 'Tell Me About Your Song' icon was designed by Shaenon K. Garrity.
If you want more information about your host, Jacob Haller, then check out my web page, my facebook page, or my twitter account.
'Tell Me About Your Song' on iTunes - rate and review us!
'Tell Me About Your Song' on stitcher - rate and review us!
'Tell Me About Your Song' rss feed
'Tell Me About Your Song' on Facebook
Episode Transcript:
[EXCERPT FROM 'ROELLE FAMILY CHRISTMAS' PLAYS:]
Egg egg eggnog in the ma-ma-moustache of my fa-fa-father is funny, ha ha ha ha Egg egg eggnog in the ma-ma-moustache of my fa-fa-father is funny, ha ha ha ha
JAKE: Hello, everyone. Welcome to a special holiday edition of Tell Me About Your Song, the podcast in which I talk to musicians and songwriters about a song they've written. Today, I'm talking to the Sentimental Favorites.
SONNY: My name is Sonny.
GEOFF: And I'm Geoff Griffin.
JAKE: And the song they're going to be talking about is named 'Roelle Family Christmas', and it's from their album 'The Unrelenting Sentimental Favorites.' So insert jingle bells here. [Jingle bells play.] Where do you guys want to start?
GEOFF: We are proud of our holiday engagement with our audience. Sentimental Favorites had a holiday matinee that we did for many years at AS220. We would pick an afternoon in December. It was a number of different acts, and -- Musical acts, but we also had performance art, and people doing readings -- and the idea was to introduce some of the Christmas spirit into that AS220 space, and also celebrate with a family friendly rock show. The Christmas element of it was what's left when you take Christ out of Christmas.
JAKE: Mm-hmm.
GEOFF: So, we discovered, in the -- when we thought that through, that it's about candy, and presents, and nice people, and music, and family, and --
SONNY: Decorations.
GEOFF: -- decorations, so we would decorate the AS220 performance space, and had left out crayons, and dishes of candy for the kids, and there was coloring -- which was fun, because it's fun finding random black and white art for kids to color. We would announce a gift swap, which is a fun thing to do with strangers. So, and we would seed -- Under the tree, we would seed it with five or six gifts out of our basements, and then people could leave a gift and take a gift, which was a fun way to introduce people to each other. I was, would fry dough during the whole show, so there would be something hot and savory to eat. And performers over the years included: you, Jacob; also the Superchief trio performed; we had the Iditarod; Deer Tick; Dan Blakeslee ...
SONNY: Will Schaff played one year.
GEOFF: ... The Double Decker Dance Band; Richard Goulis did a performance piece with a toxic Santa Claus, and that was a little scary, but still fun. And it turned out to be -- It was a lot of work for us to do during the holiday season, but it turned out to be a lot of fun, too. Oh! And the other thing was that we would make a holiday CD, which was only available at those events. And, someday, we ought to do a compilation of all of those, because they were fun versions of songs that never surfaced again.
SONNY: It'll be in the box set.
GEOFF: It'll be in the box box set. So 'Roelle Family Christmas' -- Oh! And then the other idea was also to nudge people into writing their own original holiday themed material.
SONNY: One of the caveats of playing was you had to play a holiday song.
GEOFF: Yes.
SONNY: Not -- You know. At least one.
GEOFF: Yes. And it being AS220, we were encouraging people to write their own originals. And the song that we've chosen for today, 'Roelle Family Christmas,' is in many ways a celebration of what happens when you take Christ out of Christmas in America in the 1980s. Sonny, can you talk about the song?
SONNY: Um ... I don't remember writing the song. [laughter]
JAKE: Perfect! All right.
SONNY: I think it happened really quick. In five minutes, maybe, it was written, and it was just me describing what the typical Christmas celebration with my immediate family is like. More so what it was like in the 80s and 90s. Things have changed since we've gotten older, and moved away, and have our own families, etc. So, yeah, it was really just almost a bullet point list of things that are involved at Christmastime with my people.
GEOFF: With all of Sonny's songs, Sonny comes in, and it all seems -- he will sing the song, and often the -- 90 percent of the time, the structure's all fully formed already, and it's always pretty obvious to me what to do, which has been a nice way that he and I have clicked for a long time, so there's not a lot of suffering over -- he has, trusts whatever harmonic motion I'm putting underneath his notes, or at least is nice to go and change his melody to match whatever it is that I happen to playing underneath him. So that whole side of it's been really quick and easy. One thing that I like about the song is that it's a sentimental family childhood Christmas song, but, instead of being sort of melancholy or old timey, It's manic and fired up in the way that a seven year old at Christmastime is, and it's a hectic song, and it's hard to even tell what's going on, and it's full of stammers, and stutters, and stops, and starts, which I -- which I appreciate, because that's what I remember. "I can't sleep because I'm -- I'm just tearing through the Garfield books, trying to get as much out of this whole 24 hours as I possibly can."
[EXCERPT FROM 'ROELLE FAMILY CHRISTMAS' PLAYS:]
Egg egg eggnog in the ma-ma-moustache of my fa-fa-father is funny, ha ha ha ha Egg egg eggnog in the ma-ma-moustache of my fa-fa-father is funny, ha ha ha ha
SONNY: Every Christmas, my mother makes this amazing eggnog that is just -- it's -- It's weird. I was thinking on the way here how I was going to describe this eggnog, and I couldn't -- I couldn't come up with a way to describe it, that didn't sound disgusting.
JAKE: That's the way of eggnog.
GEOFF: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Eggnog is gross.
SONNY: This eggnog -- It's not like, you know, if you buy it in the store, it's really liquidy, it's, like, a kind of a beige color -- Like, it's not that. There's no alcohol in this eggnog. It's -- it's kind of like a really fluffy Cool Whip, but tastes more like eggnog. You know, it's gallons of heavy cream.
GEOFF: Butter and sugar.
SONNY: Yeah, whipped up. And so it's -- [sighs] -- It would be made in this gigantic yellow Tupperware bowl, and set out Christmas Eve, and there would just be a ladle in it, and you would ladle it into these little glass mugs, that you could fit, like, one finger through the handle of, and you would kind of plop it in there, and you -- you know -- you would kind of drink it, but really, kind of, just, like, tip the glass up to your mouth, and kind of slurp it out, like -- It didn't move very quickly. And so my father, having a mustache, of course, every time he tipped this glass up to drink out of it, his mustache was full of this fluff, and as children we were endlessly delighted by this. You know, and then, when we got older, it became, like, shtick. I mean, it was probably schtick when we were little too, but it just had to happen, you know -- my dad had to tilt the eggnog up, and we all had to go, "Ah ha ha! It's in his mustache! Ha!" and he'd be, like, [adopts dopey voice] "What do you mean it's in my mustache?" [laughter] And then he'd kind of, like, mug, you know, and, like, just make faces, and then kind of, like, blow it up into his nose. And so, you know. Yeah. That was hilarious.
GEOFF: Mm-hmm.
SONNY: Yeah.
[EXCERPT FROM 'ROELLE FAMILY CHRISTMAS' PLAYS:]
Christmas time with the Roelles: Lego sets and stockings, sweaters, socks, and magazines. Someone always gets a bowling shoebox from the 80s that later will hold the angel 'top the tree that Grandma made.
SONNY: So the first verse is talking about -- it's, like, presents, right? Or it's, like, Christmas morning? -- So, typical presents: Every year there's a LEGO set in the stocking, which was my mother's way -- We were allowed to open our stockings first, like, before everybody was up, and stuff. You would get up, you'd get your stocking, there would be little presents in it, and you could open those, and do whatever, and it was a way for my parents to, maybe, sleep in a little bit, and be able to wake up, and make a pot of coffee, before opening presents. So there were Lego sets in it, which would keep us busy, because we, of course we'd have to open them up and build them, and that, you know, would save 10 minutes.
JAKE: Yeah know we had the same system. There was always an orange in the toe.
SONNY: My grandparents always put an orange in, and then an envelope from the bank with a crisp dollar bill.
JAKE AND GEOFF: Nice!
JAKE: Ooh! I like that! Classy!
SONNY: Yeah, yeah. Oh, and magazines, because you could sit and read a magazine -- it was usually Mad Magazine, or, like, Model Railroaders, I don't know, really. One of the things that was always under the tree, wrapped up with someone's present in it, was a shoe box that was from my dad's bowling shoes, and it was always, like, "Who gets the shoe box this year?" And somebody would open it up -- "I got the shoebox!" And it was just, like, wherever present conveniently fit in the shoe box, but then, as we started bringing, you know, significant others home for their first Christmas with the family, they would get the shoe box, just to kind of, like, welcome them, and make them part of the -- right. And then after. After Christmas, when things get taken down, the crocheted angel that my my grandmother had made -- it's, like, crocheted over, I don't know, a cardboard cone that has tinfoil wrapped around it -- that would get put in the shoe box, and then get packed away. So my --
GEOFF: Oh! So it wasn't just your dad's current pair of bowling shoes.
SONNY: No, it was, like some time in --
GEOFF: It was some specific bowling shoe --
SONNY: -- it looks like, the early 80s, he bought a pair of bowling shoes, [Geoff laughs] and this box somehow survived much longer than the shoes.
GEOFF: That's wonderful.
SONNY: Yeah, so -- and that helped keep the box preserved, was, you know, you pack it away with the Christmas decorations for the next year.
[EXCERPT FROM 'ROELLE FAMILY CHRISTMAS' PLAYS:]
Christmas eve is shrimp cocktail, li- ttle meatballs, cookies, and fudge, and Christmas day we will eat lasagne. On the ride home, I'll snack on stocking food, like Nerds and Combos and Durkee french fried onion rings that I love. I can't wait for -- Egg egg ...
SONNY: So the first verse is presents. Then the second verse is food. And -- Because food is pretty important, even though it's not, like, a giant production. It's -- For a long time, it was -- Christmas Eve, it would just be the immediate family, and we'd go to church for the Christmas Eve service, and then we'd come home, and, you know, people would go off into bedrooms, and wrap presents, and there would kind of be a buffet of these little cocktail meatballs that my mom makes, that are awesome, and shrimp cocktail -- which was always, like, set out that morning to thaw, because it was a frozen thing -- and Christmas cookies -- like, sugar cookies that were frosted -- and fudge, a couple different kinds of fudge, and, yeah, just a lot of junk food. And then, like, Christmas specials on TV -- like, old Christmas specials. And then, eventually, we'd all go up to our rooms. The only thing I didn't talk about in there was, my personal holiday tradition was: Christmas Eve, you know, not being able to sleep because you're so excited, so I would just read Garfield treasuries until I fell asleep, and I would just, you know, I would get through an entire Garfield book, and then just pass out. So every time I see a Garfield treasury now, it's -- it's Christmas Eve.
GEOFF: Wow.
SONNY: Yeah.
GEOFF: I really don't like Garfield.
SONNY: Speaking of Garfield, one of our Christmas traditions, briefly, was lasagna on Christmas Day.
JAKE: Oh, yeah.
Geoff: Mm-hmm.
SONNY: Which, I think mostly because of this song, my mom then felt, [laughter] like, the need -- Like, she felt like I had to have lasagna on Christmas Day. And I remember, there was a year or two, not too long ago, where she was, like, "I'm not making lasagne. I'm sorry. I'm not making lasagne. Is that OK?" Like, I don't care! I'll eat anything. I mean, it's just what was happening at the time of the song, so that's what -- And the other food is my stocking goodies that -- You know, from the age of seventeen on, I lived 400 miles away, so I would be home for Christmas, and then I'd have a 400 mile drive back to where I was living, whether it was Baltimore or Providence, and the whole ride was stocking goodies, you know, to snack on, and there was those bags of Combos, and Nerds and those Durkee french fried onion rings, which are those onion rings that come in a can, that you put on bean casseroles. One can is probably a thousand calories but, you know, I would eat the entire can on a car ride, and a bag of Combos. It was really disgusting, but delicious.
[EXCERPT FROM 'ROELLE FAMILY CHRISTMAS' PLAYS:]
I can't wait for -- Egg egg eggnog in the ma-ma-moustache of my fa-fa-father is funny, ha ha ha ha Egg egg eggnog in the ma, ma, ma, mana, mah [continues to become more indistinct]
[SONG CONTINUES IN THE BACKGROUND]
JAKE: So, at the end, it kind of descends into incoherence.
SONNY: You gotta end the song somehow, I mean ...
GEOFF: Yeah and I wanted to sing, so I did the little, um, that [sings] "Eggggggnooooog. Eggggggnooooog."
SONNY: Yeah. Which, it just sounds good. The incoherence -- I mean, like, I could have sung that verse three times, but, like, why not let it break -- I mean --
JAKE: Like, I feel like I've seen you do it live where that part of the song goes on a lot longer.
SONNY: Sometimes, live, a lot of our songs go on a lot longer than they should. [laughter]
GEOFF: Like in two minutes. Yes. [laughter]
SONNY: One time, I kept the Snow Plow song, I kept going so long --
['PUT THE PLOW DOWN' PLAYS:]
I set off to work one morning, And it had already started to slow.
['PUT THE PLOW DOWN' CONTINUES TO PLAY IN THE BACKGROUND]
SONNY: -- that -- You know, this is a song where it kind of, through the song, I kind of count up the inches and feet of snow, until it gets to a hundred or, like, yeah, until a hundred and then, like, that's the end.
['PUT THE PLOW DOWN' CONTINUES TO PLAY:]
... but they weren't doing a very good job. I mean, it's like they're afraid to let the blade actually touch the snow! Instead, it just skims right across the top. And that is no help at all. So I say: Put your plow down, mister. Help us out. It's getting deep, four inches, about. Now, put your plow down, mister. Help us out. It's getting tough to drive around here with all the snow. So put your plow down, mister. Help us out. It's getting deep, eighteen inches, about.
['PUT THE PLOW DOWN' CONTINUES TO PLAY IN THE BACKGROUND]
SONNY: So, typically, now, it's like, four, eighteen, thirty, fifty, eighty, a hundred. But there was one Christmas holiday show that we did that I started four, and then I kind of, I might have went to ten, and then, like, eighteen, and twenty-five, and ...
['PUT THE PLOW DOWN' CONTINUES TO PLAY:]
... tough to drive around here with all the snow. Well, put your plow down, mister. Help us out. It's getting deep, eighty inches, about. Now, put your plow down, mister...
['PUT THE PLOW DOWN' CONTINUES TO PLAY IN THE BACKGROUND]
SONNY: It just, like, went on, like, forever, to the point where Geoff stopped playing. [laughter] He just stopped, and just waited for me to get up to a hundred, and then we finished the song. That was --
GEOFF: Yeah, I'm sorry I left you there.
SONNY: I felt really bad. No, I felt really bad about that.
GEOFF: I shouldn't have done that.
SONNY: I was like like, wow, I went on way too long.
['PUT THE PLOW DOWN' ENDS:]
... put your plow down, mister. Help us out. It's getting tough to drive around here with all the snow.
JAKE: Do you have any stories about performing the song?
GEOFF: I think of it as a solid "go to" song if we're starting to lose the audience, that is a hit.
SONNY: I think every holiday show, probably, and maybe because we don't -- our songs are short, so our sets are short, and we only have a few holiday or winter songs, so we can't do a whole set, and a lot -- The holiday shows, we always kept family friendly, because there were kids there, and most of our topics aren't really of interest to kids. Anyway, this is a long way to say that we would start the show with Roelle Family Christmas, and end the show with Roelle Family Christmas.
GEOFF: And probably play it a couple of times in the middle, there, too.
SONNY: Yeah. it was -- maybe when there was -- it was, we were starting to lose the crowd. "OK, we'll play this one!" and then, that's it, Merry Christmas everyone!
JAKE: So, if people want to hear more of your music, what should they do?
GEOFF: Well --
SONNY: Invite us over. [laughter]
GEOFF: Well we have, um, I think we have sentimentalfavorites.com.
JAKE: You're definitely on Bandcamp.
GEOFF: And we're on Bandcamp as well.
SONNY: 75orLess still has, I think, all but one of the CDs that we heaped on them years ago.
GEOFF: Because they sold one of them.
SONNY: Did they? Or -- I don't even know.
GEOFF: And if you -- If you order a CD through Bandcamp, the next five people to buy them through Bandcamp will get a free poster --
SONNY: -- that has every lyric.
JAKE: Nice. So we're recording this in on September 1st, and I haven't taken my air conditioner out, but I'll probably release this in early December, so, you know Christmas shopping.
GEOFF: There you go. It makes a great gift.
JAKE: Yes.
SONNY: If you -- Yeah. We have. Um. Yeah. It's -- Man, everyobody will just love this album.
GEOFF: It's a good record.
JAKE: I like it a lot.
GEOFF: Good.
JAKE: If people are interested in checking out my music, or my other projects, I have a -- well, as I record this -- a new Web site, jacobhaller.com, that has links to everything, and I have a website for this podcast at tellmeaboutyoursong.com, and I'm going to put together a blog post with links to the Sentimental Favorite albums and everything, and maybe some other things we talked about, and people can find that at yoursongpodcast.tumblr.com, and I've been trying to put together transcripts for all the episodes, and post those as well, so that will be there too. And, with that said ,we'll go out by listening to the song we've been talking about, Roelle Family Christmas by the Sentimental Favorites. Enjoy!
['ROELLE FAMILY CHRISTMAS' PLAYS IN FULL:]
Egg egg eggnog in the ma-ma-moustache of my fa-fa-father is funny, ha ha ha ha Egg egg eggnog in the ma-ma-moustache of my fa-fa-father is funny, ha ha ha ha Christmas time with the Roelles: Lego sets and stockings, sweaters, socks, and magazines. Someone always gets a bowling shoebox from the 80s that later will hold the angel 'top the tree that Grandma made. Egg egg eggnog in the ma-ma-moustache of my fa-fa-father is funny, ha ha ha ha Egg egg eggnog in the ma-ma-moustache of my fa-fa-father is funny, ha ha ha ha Christmas eve is shrimp cocktail, li- ttle meatballs, cookies, and fudge, and Christmas day we will eat lasagne. On the ride home, I'll snack on stocking food, like nerds and combos and Durkee french fried onion rings that I love. I can't wait for -- Egg egg eggnog in the ma-ma-moustache of my fa-fa-father is funny, ha ha ha ha Egg egg eggnog in [becomes indistinct] Oooooooooooo
GEOFF: The shoe box makes me think of -- so now -- And, being a parent, we're, my wife and I are always surprised, and delighted, but often -- often surprised, and we will forget what has become a tradition, because we don't realize it, the sort of irrational way that something that happens once can become the thing that we do every year, and the things that we knock ourselves out on, the kids are completely oblivious to, to the point where we -- So we raised our kids as Santa Claus atheists, and they -- We've never, we've been quite up front with them with that Santa Claus doesn't exist, and that "From Santa" is a nice way to, is just a nice way to give a gift, totally anonymously, from one person to the other. So the kids, when they were little, would pick out something for mom from Santa, you know, and that would be, like, even more fun, because then they wouldn't know that it was Judy's present for Mom, and that game -- But then it quickly curdled from -- well, curdled is a strong word -- but they went from -- whereas other kids believe in Santa, but suspect that maybe it's not true. We found ourselves with kids that were having -- we were telling them that Santa wasn't true, and they began to suspect strongly that maybe Santa Claus -- their parents were not telling them the whole truth, and that there was really a Santa Claus, and that they were on to us --
SONNY: Wow.
GEOFF: -- and their little secret, because they -- so they would -- each year, there would be some kind of, like. "Well then how did this get in the house?" Or like, well, but then, "Oh, who ate --" and Judy would still say, you know, "Who ate the carrot for the reindeer? Because Dad doesn't like carrots, and so it couldn't have been dad, so it must have been a reindeer."
SONNY: We -- we're still debating what to do about the Santa dilemma.
GEOFF: Your guys are two? three?
SONNY: They're three. Yeah, they just turned three, and -- It wasn't anything we did. I mean, they go to daycare a couple of days a week, and, other than that, Santa is everywhere, and they just -- they just know about Santa, through all of that. Santa came to their daycare ...
GEOFF: Oh, man.
SONNY: ... you know. And, so, it was like -- It wasn't because we told them, they're all -- They love Santa, and they're all about it. I don't think that they understand what the concept of Santa is, and that he brings gifts, or anything, it's just, as a character, they love Santa. So we're not going to fight that. Like, go ahead and love Santa, you know, that's great. We're not telling them anything is real, or isn't real, we're just, you know. And it kind of, like, has grown to tradition, in Pam's family and in mine, where, you know, the big present of the day, is what's still written from Santa. I mean, there's no -- I think that just tells you that, oh, this one you open last, kind of thing.
GEOFF: One thing my parents did to move us off of the Santa thing, and sort of break it to us, because it was getting -- we were getting a little old for it, which we do in our house too, so I guess it's a tradition that, in spite of -- it's an anti-Santa tradition -- they would give me a -- when I got a baseball glove, it would be from Reggie Jackson.
JAKE! Hmmmm!
SONNY: That's cool.
GEOFF: Or the 'From:' would be a clue. So our kids get presents from -- and it's fun to be obscure, and not to have it be from Harry Potter, but to have it be from Neville Longbottom, and then they're like -- and to the point where then they say, "Well, you know, Dad doesn't know about the Harry Potter books, and so, must be Santa who wrote Neville Longbottom on there."
JAKE: Your kids are Santa Claus truthers! [laughter]
GEOFF: But that's fun, and that's a fun game, though it does get a little, like -- 1:00 in the morning, on Christmas Eve, it can be a little bit patience-testing, to be sitting there thinking of clever things to make all of the gifts from, but ...
SONNY: My mom used to make codes -- like number codes -- and put them on the gifts that were put out, you know, like, the week before Christmas, that, like, stayed under the tree. So we would have that week to, like, do -- like, figure out math riddles, to figure out whose present was which one.
GEOFF: Ohhhh.
SONNY: Which, the first couple of years, we were, like, really into, I think, and really tried to figure it out, and sometimes we did, and sometimes we didn't. But then, you know, it continued for a while, and we eventually were, like, "You know, if we don't figure it out, she's just going to hand us the right present anyway. Like, it's not like don't get it if we don't figure it out." So it kind of, like, lost its luster, and we just got presents.
GEOFF: That's a good example of the kind of tradition that a parent will knock themselves out on, and the kids are completely ungrateful.