Ghost Liotta Interview: Soft Synths, Hard Decisions
BY JORDAN MAINZER
It takes quite the level of trust for musicians to hand over their art to someone and give them free reign, usually the type of relationship a band might have with a longtime producer. For Ghost Liotta, it happened with first-time collaborators. Using vintage modular synths, live drums, and steel guitar, the trio of drummer James McAlister (The National, Sufjan Stevens), multi-instrumentalist Christopher Wray (Butch Walker), and multi-instrumentalist Zac Rae (Death Cab for Cutie), recorded material at Rae’s studio a few years back after each person was finished with a tour. Before finishing the material, a fire permanently closed Rae’s studio. A few years later, rediscovered, instead of looking back themselves, the band handed the hard drives over to producer John Spiker (Tenacious D) to see what he could come up with. The results weren’t what the band could have imagined at any point in the creation of the songs; yet, they were perfect. From dark, industrial, beat-centric tracks (“when we sleep”, “nonlinear b”) to ambient atmospheric drones (“back to dust”, “life cycle”), their self-titled debut album, released in August, flows seamlessly, never trying too hard, yet always surprising you.
A few months ago, I spoke to the band over Skype from their respective homes and studios in California. (They’d been able to see each other during the pandemic for a photo shoot but were otherwise busy doing sessions for other projects, so the interview was as much of a catchup session for them as it was an introduction to myself.) Read on as they talk about how they made the record, its aesthetic, whether they’ll follow the same creative process in the future, and how in the hell they came up with the band name.
Since I Left You: Why did you decide to make this record self-titled?
Zac Rae: It was a long discussion about the titling of this record and the names of the songs. Everything at one point was untitled because they existed as numbers on a hard drive, like “Untitled No. 6″ and “Untitled No. 9.” We initially kept that as an artistic choice--it wasn’t linear. It was like, “3, 2, 7, 9″ in the sequence we’d come up with. We realized it would be confusing for the whole world, so we titled everything but left the album title as the project.
Christopher Wray: The way we made the album, Zac, myself, and James were in Zac’s studio. We basically told the engineer to hit record and we’d start making music. Those jams would sometimes go for 20 minutes and sometimes an hour and 20 minutes. We’d pretty much stop at some point and go into the control room and drop markers on ideas we thought were cool. After doing that for three days, the whole saga of the studio burning and the hard drives, we gave the files to Spiker as a form of torture and he just started sending back these amazing arrangements. We just couldn’t believe it. We had all the raw material Spiker coalesced into an album.
SILY: The album definitely has a cohesiveness to it you don’t often get with raw improvisation.
ZR: That was a choice. There were times where we debated whether to leave something as a rolling, 10-minute amorphous thing or put it into a form that somebody listening cold can hear the development of the idea. We chose to make it a little more focused.
SILY: With the sequencing of the tracks, did you want to present them as mini suites? Or were you trying to change things up from track to track?
James McAlister: I don’t know that there was a super conscious thing, that we were making a record and had to have 10 songs that were three minutes long each. The way the songs were created was super unstructured. We let those dictate what each thing was. It wasn’t some endgame where we had to make a certain number of songs out of the material. What’s on the record is the best of what we pulled from those sessions, so there wasn’t forethought on the form of anything. That was the fun of it: Taking those moments and letting them be.
CW: That’s very much the spirit of the album too. James, I don’t know if you remember this, but going way back, I guess 6-7 years ago, the impetus for me reaching out to Zac before Zac and I had ever met was a project like this, if not this project. Zac’s been in the scene for a long time, and we have a lot of mutual friends and worked with the same people. I love what he does in the studio. I remember asking James since you were buds before, “Can you introduce me to Zac Rae? I want to do something that’s just for us, not for a particular artist or project.” We got breakfast at Kitchen 24 in Hollywood, and that was the early bird of this project.
JM: The way it came together is one decision leading to another, which is my favorite way to make everything. We even talked about having vocalists to collaborate, and the more we got down the road, we just liked what it was. We didn’t know what to call it, and that’s a good sign: When you make something you like and you’re happy at the end of it. I feel like I was constantly surprised by how great every decision came out, like, “Oh, wow, this is better than I thought, even.” All four of us make a lot of music, so it’s refreshing to be pleasantly surprised by something you do. We can go into work mode, get it done and get it right, but this felt more special than your average thing.
SILY: Would you say the record has a distinct mood?
JM: I think that’s what its strongest trait is.
ZR: When we were putting together the final sequencing and edits, we were all in a space thinking whether you could put it on with headphones and listen to it all the way through, or by yourself or in your car or biking in the wilderness or in an airplane. It sustains the space really well for the length of the record. We thought consciously about that and made some final decisions based on, “This piece doesn’t really fit in this flow,” and making one body.
SILY: When I first read that the album would have so many different types of synths, live drums, and steel guitar, I expected to be able to hear those instruments more. “I Am Thoughts” was a track where I could consciously hear drums, but otherwise, it was a pretty consistent aesthetic.
CW: The most conscious aspect of that was having the room in the recordings itself; in a genre that’s more traditionally direct, we wanted to be able to hear the room, hear amps. To me, I think that’s what gives the album its depth and uniqueness. Hearing chairs squeak. I can’t remember the name of the track, but one of the first ones we kind of organized into a vibe, the Overstayer on it was interacting with a really weird way where the reverb coming out of my amp was in another room. The overhead mics from the drum kit were catching the reverbs of my amp that were in another room which was creating this weird vibe. Very room-centric.
ZR: Things like James hitting the pad, generating an electronic sound, but you’re hearing the sound of the stick on the rudder, so it’s thudding and being sort of distorted, not like an electronic snare or a drum but somewhere between the two. I’m really proud of how that landed in the vinyl version.
JM: There’s nothing worse than, “Here’s an electronic beat we’re gonna record a drum kit over!” If I hear that one more time I’m gonna hang it up. [laughs] We got into this weird sort of in between space that’s hard to do based on the situation we have.
SILY: What’s the story behind the band name?
CW: I was on a session for another artist, and we were on break, and I was on a couch and two different conversations were happening at one time, and in one conversation, somebody said “ghost” and in the other conversation somebody said “liotta” and all my brain heard was that phrase. I thought, “That sounds like our band.”
SILY: I assume somebody was talking about Ray Liotta?
CW: I’m not sure. I don’t know how else that word gets thrown out.
JM: This whole thing is a sublet nod to Ray Liotta. I’m still hoping we can get successful enough that he can be in a video for us.
ZR: Ray Liotta as a ghost in space.
CW: In between his Chantix commercials. [laughs]
JM: We could figure out some kind of narrative where this is actually Ray Liotta’s band. All instruments by Ray Liotta. If you’re curious, confirmed: Ray Liotta did all of this.
SILY: Why are all the titles lowercase?
CW: Thank you! They are. On Spotify, when I uploaded tracks, it [wasn’t working.] When I emailed them, because I’ve seen other artists do that, I tried to get some sort of permission to do all lowercase. But I can’t figure out for the life of me how to do that on the streaming platforms, and I was sent a “No.”
I don’t know if it’s a visual thing, but artistically, it’s what felt right to all of us.
JM: I was pushing for everything being untitled, so I had to settle for lowercase letters.
SILY: What’s the story behind the album art?
CW: We were looking at different artists and options, and an artist in Southern California...we saw this beautiful painting that he did, it looked like the world our album lived in. We reached out, he was super cool and said, “Go for it.”
SILY: What else is next for you?
ZR: We’re excited about making this music. It’s been three years since we created this. We’re excited about repeating this process and seeing what new influences we’re bringing to the table. I think later this year we’ll do that.
SILY: Do you think you’ll follow the same process, where Christopher, James, and Zac will make and give it to John to arrange?
John Spiker: I think that remains to be seen. In one sense, there was something beautiful that I knew nothing when I stepped into this stuff. When I first heard the music, I had no memories of the session or what I was searching for. It was this void where I could needle drop around it and let fate lead the way. It was a positive for my workflow. I don’t think it was the key to why it worked, but it was interesting and a first for me. This fresh exciting thing for me to jump into and discover moments in a different way rather than sitting into the control room listening to the guys playing. I think if I had that in my mind, I might want to think of it more structured of the way it was created. Since I didn’t have that, it was, “It could be anything.”
CW: If you’re okay with it, Spiker, it would be cool to recreate that and keep you in the dark! I would be stoked if we sent you an hour of music and nothing we recorded made the cut.
JS: This is like working backwards. This is usually year 10, album 5 for a band where it’s like, “No, you don’t need to come. Don’t come, actually, we’d rather you not be there.”
CW: The one thing I want to make sure we do even if the concept changes is being in the same room while we’re making it. James and Zac are not interested in making music in a silo. We all do that on other things. The magic that happens is being in the room vibing off of each other and making decisions. We didn’t use a single soft synth on the album. It’s all hardware. Because of that, we’re making decisions that are internal. You can’t go in and change a preset and dial something back. I like the permanence of making those decisions together in the moment.
SILY: Was that experience on the flipside for the three of you also unique where you made it and sent it off and had no idea how it would come back?
CW: Yeah, and it was due to complete trust. Spiker has been one of my best buds for a long time. I met him before I moved to L.A. He was the only person in the world I would have trusted to send all this stuff and say, “Do what you want with this.” We just said, “Do your thing.” If we had given it to anybody else, I don’t know if the passion would have been there. Anybody else would have required some direction or some kind of an idea of what they should be doing. Spiker just dove in and made shit happen.
ZR: Other projects in my life I have such a high degree of control over. It’s my band, I’m mixing it and controlling it and have control over every stage of the process. It’s so gratifying for Spiker to come in and handle that side of it and to be surprised almost like somebody was doing a remix of your record. It was really lovely for me to have that weight removed.
