#les mis language

[gavroche-le-moineau]

Today I'm thinking way too much about how to translate "permets-tu?" into English.

The verb "permettre" does literally mean "to permit/allow" but "Do you permit it?" has always felt way too formal to me, given the original French. First of all, the original phrase doesn't specify an "it" or a "me" (Le permets-tu? / Me permets-tu?). It's very short, very casual, very ambiguous.

Some alternative translations might be: "May I?" "Do you mind?" "If you'll allow?" "Is it alright with you?"

I think if I were to translate the chapter now I might go with "May I?" which keeps the casual, short, and ambiguous nature.

Also, Grantaire uses a lot of casual/ambiguous language in this chapter (maybe always? But I haven't been paying enough attention.) He says "Vive la République! J'en suis." (translated as "Long live the Republic! I'm one of them.") "J'en suis" is also a very ambiguous phrase. It's basically "I am of [something]" and the something is left unspecified. I would love for others to weigh in on this but I wasn't sure whether it could imply both "I'm a part of the Republic" and "I'm one of the insurgents." More modern translations of this phrase (on its own) would be "I'm in," or "I'm on board," but I don't know if that holds for the 19th century. (If something, such as a group of people, were specified beforehand it would still mean "I'm one of them / ...of which I am one / etc." in context) Any other French speakers with thoughts on these lines?

[gavroche-le-moineau]

A fun pun from yesterday's Les Mis chapter:

Gavroche says: “And make haste, Monsieur What’s-your-name, for Mamselle Cosette is waiting.”

This line in French is: “Et dépêchez-vous, monsieur Chose, puisque mamselle Chosette attend.”

"Chose" means "thing" so Gavroche is kind of calling Jean Valjean "monsieur thingamajig" since he doesn't know Valjean's name. The funny part is that this can be made into a pun when he refers to Cosette as "Chosette" instead, which is just the word "chose" with a feminine "ette" tacked on, making them Monsieur Chose and Mamselle Chosette.

Rose attempts the translation of this pun more than Hapgood does, but neither express how well this works because of Cosette's name.

[gavroche-le-moineau]

Initial Character Names in Les Mis

I've been having fun poking around in the "Rédaction Initiale" (the earliest version) of Les Mis and want to collect the different initial character names I've run across in one place!

Jean Valjean <- Jean Tréjean

madame Magloire <- madame Marthe

mademoiselle Baptistine <- mademoiselle Sylvanie

Fantine <- Marguerite Louet

Cosette <- Anna Louet*

Marius Pontmercy <- Thomas Pontmercy

Gillenormand <- Charpentier

Gavroche <- Chavroche

Eponine <- Palmyre

Azelma <- Malvina

Grantaire <- Grangé

* This name is the reason Cosette is called Alouette! “La mère s’appelait Marguerite Louet, son enfant s’appelait Anna Louet. D’Anna Louet on avait fait Alouette. C’était le nom qu’on lui donnait dans tout Montfermeil.” Translation: The mother was called Marguerite Louet, her child was called Anna Louet. From Anna Louet they had made Alouette. It was the name she was given in all of Montfermeil.

This isn't an exhaustive list, these are just the ones I've noticed.

[gavroche-le-moineau]

“...if he were to come and make to the Baron Pontmercy this revelation—and without proof: 'Your wife is a bastard,' the only result would be to attract the boot of the husband towards the loins of the revealer.”

Hapgood's translation of "reins" as "loins" has continued to be funny for modern readers throughout the entire book.

As I discussed in a post much earlier in the brick, "les reins" are the kidneys, and refer to the corresponding area of the lower back which can also be true of the English word "loins" (Merriam Webster: 1a. the part of a human being or quadruped on each side of the spinal column between the hip bone and the false ribs) and this is the area the text is referring to. However, in both English and French, but more so English, the words have come to refer to the pelvic region in addition to the lumbar region, resulting in the hilarious mental image of Marius kicking Thénardier in the balls for calling Cosette a bastard.

[gavroche-le-moineau]

Les Mis Translation Comparison Project

Hey all, I've put together an editable spreadsheet that I'm hoping people will add to this year as we read along with @lesmisletters!

The idea is to track any notable Les Mis version comparisons or discrepancies. So far I've included spaces for 3 different web-accessible French editions I know of, as well as all the major English translations. Please feel free to add more columns for other versions or translations in other languages!

I'm hoping that at the end we'll have a handy spreadsheet that can be used as a resource for those looking to compare areas of the text across versions/translations including notable lines, puns, errors, or discrepancies.

Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19h23ugcNa4Ux1A5wmfo42wdb4ANvfMtB5U7NMzPmsok/edit?usp=sharing

Please let me know if I can improve this project in any way, and thanks in advance for your help!

[gavroche-le-moineau]

“Moreover, at the age of ninety-six...” WHERE IS HAPGOOD GETTING THESE NUMBERS????

“D’ailleurs, à quatre-vingt-dix ans...” It's just ninety. 90.

The Hapgood translation repeatedly gets M. Gillenormand's age incorrect- it frequently says eighty when the actual number is ninety. Now it's translating 90 as 96? I really don't understand where these habitual number mistranslations are coming from.

[gavroche-le-moineau]

So much fun language stuff in this chapter! There's way too much for me to get into in full but I wanted to highlight one thing.

I love how some of Gavroche's dialogue is written out phonetically so we can hear what he sounds like. Examples include:

“Keksekça?” = Qu’est-ce que c’est que cela? An English approximation might be: "Whassat?" = What is that?

“Kekçaa?” = Qu’est-ce que cela a? "Whaddaboutit?" = What about it? / What does it matter?

“Gniena plein un magasin.” = Il y en a plein un magasin. " 'Sa shop full of 'em" = There's a shop full of them

“Gnia qu’à monter par-dessus un mur,” = Il n’y a qu'à monter par-dessus un mur "Y'only gotta climb over a wall" = You only have to climb over a wall

“Me v'là, dit-il.” = Me voilà, dit-il. I couldn't really think of an English approximation for shortening this but Hapgood's translation is "I'm with you" (basically, "I'm here / I'm ready").

I would love to get into all the argot/slang words Gavroche is throwing out this entire chapter... and teaching his younger brothers! But that will have to wait for another time.

[gavroche-le-moineau]

I already missed a translation note by a day on day 3 of Les Mis Letters oop

I have a problem with Hapgood's translation of this line in the description of Mademoiselle Baptistine: “...large eyes forever drooping;—a mere pretext for a soul’s remaining on the earth.” In French: “...de grands yeux toujours baissés ; un prétexte pour qu’une âme reste sur la terre.”

The word "drooping" here doesn't seem quite right. I'm following along this year with the FMA translation and it does a much better job with: "...large eyes, always downcast, a pretext for a soul to remain on earth."

The phrase "des yeux baissés" as it appears in the French means "lowered/downcast eyes." I kind of understand what Hapgood means with "forever drooping" but it just sounds to me like Mlle Baptistine is always nodding off or that she has a droopy-eyed look, neither of which are right.