#liam btvs

[rabbitmotifs]

sketch request: Spin The Bottle cangel but accurate to the ages they believe themselves to be (aka high school cordelia with some shy teen boy from the 1700s)

baby youre my aaaangeel

[instant-star-09]

i actually refuse to buy into the “Angel and Angelus are completely different” propaganda. i’m not sure if that’s unpopular or not, so i’ll say that i refuse to believe that Spike buys into that.

like, he’s the one person in the world who understands the whole soul thing and also one of two people who knew Angelus well enough to know that he had a personality outside of murder. he had motivations and thoughts other than hurting people, i’m absolutely sure of that.

anyway i think Angel and Angelus are very similar. Angelus is just Angel without a conscience. like Liam was a bar brawler before he was sired; if someone upset him, his instinct was to fight. i think that translated very easily into Angelus’ sadistic tendencies. i think Angelus was based on Liam’s personality and Angel’s just. grown up since then. so he’s less of an instigator, but he’s still a very abrasive person.

they act differently but they’re as much the same person as a 70 year old man is to the guy he was at 26

in my head, Spike believes that too. he talks about “when we were evil”, not “when you were Angelus”. he blames Angel for making him a monster. he (like i mentioned in a prev post) still calls Angel “Angel” when he doesn’t have his soul. hell, he calls Angel “Liam” once! i think he categorises them as the same person, which is why he hates Angel so much. not in a “you’re a different person now” way but in a “you made me and then you changed your mind” way

[xaeyrnofnbe]

and if i said they should kiss (as their human selves) what then

[slayerxvampire]

Something that honestly bothers me is the fandom's perception of Liam before he was turned into a vampire. And this isn't helped by the lack of scenes we get with Angel's human life, that are usually aren't depicting him as a lazy drunkard who chases after women. I feel like, AtS could have explored this more. I wish they had, but I'm not surprised about this because they don't go into Buffy's life pre-Sunnydale for that matter.

But back to Liam I've said before that he was a victim of abuse, both the physical and verbal variations. Given the time Liam grew up in, he was pushed into a lot of expectations as the oldest of two children. You could also argue that Liam could have had other siblings but given the context of the show, it doesn't seem likely. Because if this was the case, Liam's father would have compared him to a deceased older brother in The Prodigal and this never happened.

And given the family had enough wealth for one servant, Liam's family seemed to be well respected. Given the fact that Liam's dad was so obsessed with having a son that would have taken over the family's trade, it speaks volumes to the things that Liam had to endure over the years. For example in The Prodigal, Liam's father says this:

Liam's Dad: It’s a son I wished for – a man – instead God gave me you! A terrible disappointment.

This basically implies that Liam was never the son his father wanted him to be. That Liam wasn't living up to the expectations his father was setting up for him. His family traded in linen and silk, which ironically is interesting given after Liam's change, as both a soulless vampire and ensouled, he wore a lot of silk shirts. Anyway, I'm sure this resulted in Liam being forced to learn a lot about business and trade.

It's not entirely clear on how his family ran this business. They could have had a small shop in Galway's town center that sold the silk and linen to buyers. It's hard telling with the lack of information to come back to. Of course, there could be more in books/comics but I do not own those resources and I refuse to touch the season comics with a ten foot pole.

But given that Liam was a free spirit who wanted to see the world, its unlikely that he would have been interested in this. He wanted to see what world outside of Galway's little bubble. See what's past the coasts of Ireland. His father clearly didn't approve and Liam had most likely started acting out at a certain age. His teens years would be the likely indication and his actions only seemed to get worse the older he got.

However, his father was always the biggest factor. As evidenced by this line from Liam in the same scene before he storms out of the family home:

Liam: Disappointment? A more dutiful son you couldn’t have asked for. My whole life you’ve told me in word, in glance, what it is you required of me, and I’ve lived down to your every expectation, now haven’t I?

This scene always gets me because to me it sounds like when David is acting this out, there's a crack in Liam's voice than you can miss. And maybe I could be imagining it but it adds a layer to Liam even if its subtle.

That he always did what he was told. What his father wanted of him. And no matter what he had done it was never enough to get his father's approval. And this is supported by a previous statement Liam makes:

Liam: As you wish, father. Always, just as you wish.

These two lines signify that Liam was a broken man who still craved the approval of his own father. The possible voice crack I mentioned? Shows to me there's a broken kid under that exterior, who's just as hurt and wounded as the man he turned into.

Back in those times, men always sought out sons to keep the family legacy and traditions going. It was especially common in households that some degree of wealthy like the aristocracy and royalty.

Of course daughters had their own levels of what was required of them (mostly getting married and producing male heirs). And while Liam's family did not live in a large estate home, they were wealthy and respected enough for his father to exhibit this kind of behavior. And it always starts when they're younger, so its easier to mold their children into their parents image.

These next three lines are better explained together:

Liam: No. The madness is that I couldn’t fail enough for you. But we’ll fix that now, won’t we? Liam's Dad: I fear for you, lad. Liam: And is that the only thing you can find in your heart for me now, father?

The first part of that certainly plays into the previous points. That Liam was always failing in his father's eyes despite his efforts. The second and last line I could see where some division can happen. I mentioned earlier in this post that Liam was a product of abuse however the middle line could apply that his father did care.

However the way Liam says he wonders if his father only feels fear and disappointment is because his father has no love for him. That makes it thrown into question because given how several scenes before this in the courtyard, Liam's father strikes him and starts berating him. The relationship is messy and there could be underlying signs of abuse.

Just nothing concrete. And Liam cares deeply for his younger sister, as before he walks out the door, he's stroking her face and speaking softly to her before he says this:

Liam to his little sister: Sweet Kathy. No tears. We’ll meet again.

So there is at least one person in that house who cared for Liam and saw his dreams as something worth chasing. We don't know much about his mother, that seems to be hanging in the air. She was crying when Liam was leaving the house the morning so it could be said that she cared for her son and loved him.

And that above statement is foreshadowing to when he comes back as a vampire, that's Kathy who lets Liam into the house. Where Liam had taken the name "Angelus" from. As Kathy says he's come back to her an angel.

His father plays a large overarching role in Angelus's actions, and his fascination with things like "love" and the human condition seem to grow over time. Darla's speech about his dad later on in The Prodigal and the exchange where she's talking about "love", seems to be an indicator.

Now, does this excuse any of Liam's actions as a human? No it most certainly does not. Liam isn't barred from accountability just because he had a rough home life. And this was something that's paralleled with Buffy Summers later on.

However, there is more to Liam that you have to really look at and most people simply refuse to do so. He was a broken man who had toxic and bad coping mechanisms. And the reason why Angel's personality when he gets his ensouled, is so different is because of the weight of his guilt.

Not just for his victims but for what he did to his own family. Liam would never have hurt Kathy or his family in the way he had with no soul. And that arrogant, extroverted man was thrown back into a body where his last memory had been of him following a woman into an alley. A body that had done so much wrong and that crushed him, because for all his faults, Liam wouldn't have done things he had as a vampire.

So Angel wanting to change, seek redemption, be someone isn't just because of his past deeds a vampire. It also plays into his human life as Liam and if Angel ever shanshu'd then he get that forgiveness and second chance to make his human life better than it was before. Do his life all over again.

And that's something he wants to share with Buffy, as she is the love of his life and she gave him hope that he could be someone better. He wants to reach that goal for her and she's the one who gives him that strength.

[tphpsw15]

I like to write academic essays about TV shows and movies in my down time for the funny, and right now I'm going into the psychology of how one's morals change when they are turned into a vampire in Buffy The Vampire Slayer using the two main vampire characters, and just now, after writing half of this thing, I've realized this can be summed up as

The psychology of two men who become evil, one who is "mummy, sing me a lullaby as I write poetry about this girl I think is pretty" and the other "I will break this beer bottle over your head and rip out your throat in hopes a girl finds this impressive and sleeps with me"

[desicat-writer]

Angel: This year feels like the time when I was alive and awake for my own surgery and The surgeon lost his pinkie in me

[wishverse-angel]

Getting back on my Liam soap box again. Honestly, I hate that seeing his character constantly misconstrued to fit the "Spike is better than Angel" crusades. Like yes, Liam is NOT portrayed with the best lighting in his flashbacks. You see him act like a drunk, he's described as a womanizer, and he's not in a good light. But AtS S1, "The Prodigal", gave a flashback with Kathy I'll cling to till I die.

Liam is a kind-hearted individual. The small scene with Kathy doesn't do much, but he cherishes his sister. His parents his relationship is strained. He was probably supposed to uphold a certain responsibility as the oldest son of the family. Take over the business. Liam was a dreamer, he was laid back and a free spirit. The man wanted to see the world. Go places. Travel! And only Kathy supported his dream.

Back then in those times, Liam would have been the head of the family if his Dad had died before he did. He would have to do things according to societal standards back in those days. Especially considering his family is wealthy enough for 1 servant. They were respected and Liam was not following his Dad's wishes. Why? He didn't want to. Liam wanted to do things his way. He loved drawing, reading books, even as Angelus he as an appreciation of the performance arts.

I don't think those traits randomly spawned as Angel. They were always there. They never fully went away when he was evil either. His soul just brought them out again! It was a missing piece! Liam is fiercely protective over his loved ones. If Kathy was in danger he would keep her safe. Chase away her nightmares. Take blame for her if she accidentally did something wrong. Protect her. His homelife wasn’t the happiest, it was pretty awful. Liam has his issues, from self doubt and an inferiority complex.

But he was always there for Kathy. He made sure his sister was happy. Maybe even tried to make his mom happy. As Angel, he was protective over his friends, family, and Buffy. Liam was too. Protective over his friends and family. So yes Liam wasn't the best human being but when it came to those he cherished and loved, he was there for them. He'd do anything. Liam was a dreamer with a big heart, and a lot of emotional scars.

[enigmatist17]

Oh gods I just rewatched Becoming Pt 1 for the first time since I watched it, and I forgot that Angelus reverted back to Liam before the guilt from his soul hits him like a freight train

One minute, you're talking to a pretty lady in an alley, the next some Romanian guy is saying you're a mass murderer and is relishing in the fact you're going to suffer for eternity before boom, guilt aaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAA