#lm 1.3

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Round 2, Matchup 18: I.iii vs III.v.1

Which chapter title do you prefer?

In the Year 1817

Marius Indigent

Voting ended onJun 8, 2025

[pilferingapples]

Reread Thoughts on 1817-A Joyous End of Joy, Since I am Probably Too Behind to Even Try to Do BrickClub Posts Now

One of the  things about the 1817 Double Quartette  crew that I am...not aware of how much it's intentional commentary and how much is from Hugo just trying to accurately convey a certain Type of people but

The grisettes aren't really friends in any enduring way-- they're Workplace Hangout Buddies, getting along as long as they're brought together by the guys they're dating.   The dateships break up, the friendships follow; it would be Work to keep hanging out--finding time in their schedules and so on-- and they haven't connected enough for the work to be worth it. This is not particularly a sign of bad faith or even a tragedy in itself, IMO; it would be great if they HAD connected, but eh, sometimes people just don’t. *

But it hardly seems like Tholomyes and his friends are "true friends" either.  

Sure,they have fun together; they share the same cruel sense of humor and the same downtime distractions. But read the conversations at Bombardas-- are any of them  really listening to each other? They're all constantly trying to score points off each other, stepping on each others' lines, making veiled threats about stealing each others' girlfriends.  

There's none of the genuine coversational interplay we see later with the Amis, because that would require actually listening to each other--and there's definitely none of the genuine debates and attempts to course-correct each other. Of course there isn't; really challenging and understanding one another is a level of Giving a Damn that none of them is even pretending to have for each other. 

--Eh,the shallowness of their interactions and their implied personalities could be a whole essay on its own, but I don't expect there's a lot of debate about the basic point: the wine of these friendships is pretty damn watered down and probably started out as vinegar anyway. 

But when the quartets break up, the students apparently go on being "friends".   And the grisettes, who if they're no closer to each other also aren't any less close, don't.

Which means there's another factor going on here besides just them not really being very close.

There's the question of who's being socially encouraged to stick together, and who's being socially encouraged to drift apart. 

And there are a lot of ways to sort how the grisettes are encouraged to drift apart rather than the students--class, gender, etc-- but there’s sort of umbrella issue that’s covering all of them:  that there's power in associations, in lasting ties--even casual ones. 

The government of the time--both Les Mis canon era and the actual time it was written-- knew that. That's why there were so many laws forbidding various kinds of people to do exactly that--associate.  Basic Authoritarianism there, really; keep people who disagree with you from even hanging out, and you keep them from organizing resistance. 

But there are informal ways of distancing and alienating people from each other, and keeping them from helping each other out of a situation that doesn't benefit them. 

What Tholomyes and his friends have REALLY been learning in their college years is that it's in their best interest to hang together-- that they represent a sort of shared cause of profit and status, and they'll be best served by cooperating with other men of their general station in life...

and the grisettes have been learning the same thing.  

That is, they've been learning that  wealthy guys of a Certain Station can make their lives much easier and more comfortable (at least financially) and that the key to accessing that relative comfort is pleasing  those men. They have this idea because it's TRUE, these men do have money and advantages that can help them.  It's highly likely that none of the grisettes have been paying their own rent for a while, in these relationships; it's explicitly stated that Dahlia's doing this to avoid working, for the sake of her hands.  They're getting a life of luxury...for as long as they keep their boyfriends' interest. 

And that means the grisettes are learning--or have learned-- to line up all their emotional and social energy  towards getting, or keeping, relationships like this. It also means that they don't necessarily see other women like themselves as allies , even if they aren't seeing them as competition. And that keeps them from discovering the advantages they might gain from even casual connections with each other. 

(and all of this interacts so weirdly  with Hugo’s idealization of Cosette’s isolation later on, which is a lot of why I’m so unsure if this was all an intentional point of his!) 

So...yeah. It's no crime or flaw of character to lose track with casual acquaintances when the shared experience that brought everyone together is over.  I've certainly done it plenty myself.  But also: even these very personal choices are being shaped by the larger social machine that serves as the great antagonist of the story, IMO. 

 *that the grisettes aren’t close friends, and thus offer no real support network, is of course a factor in Fantine’s tragedy-- but in the cascade of isolating events of her life, really, this is neither the catalyst nor the deciding factor, any more than any other person she’s interacted with not bonding with her is. 

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I.iii.6 Chapitre Ou L'on S'adore

Which is the best translation of this chapter title?

A Chapter of Self-Admiration

In Which People Adore Each Other

A Chapter In Which They Adore Each Other

A Chapter in Which People Adore Each Other

I Adore You

A Chapter In Which Everyone Adores One Another

Chapter in which Lovers Adore

Voting ended onOct 29, 2024

I Adore You is definitely a goofy translation-- not extremely Translations of Shameful, but enough to qualify. Right to our future Goofiness Bracket with it!

A Chapter of Self-Admiration: Wilbour, FMA

In Which People Adore Each Other: Wraxall

A Chapter In Which They Adore Each Other: Hapgood

A Chapter in Which People Adore Each Other: Walton

I Adore You: Denny

A Chapter In Which Everyone Adores One Another: Rose

Chapter in which Lovers Adore: Donougher

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I.iii.8 Mort d'Un Cheval

(this poll never actually ran, so here it is, out of order, for completeness' sake)

Which is your favorite translation of this chapter title?

Death of a Horse

The Death of a Horse

Voting ended onApr 3, 2025

Death of a Horse: Wilbour, Denny, FMA, Rose, Donougher

The Death of a Horse: Wraxall, Hapgood, Walton

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I.iii.2 Double Quatuor

Which is the best translation of this chapter title?

Double Quatuor

A Double Quartette

Double Foursome

Double Quartet

A Double Foursome

Two Foursomes

Voting ended onOct 29, 2024

Verging on Translations of Shame: Wilbour just doesn't translate it here, for whatever reason.

Double Quatuor: Wilbour

A Double Quartette: Wraxall, Hapgood, Walton

Double Foursome: Denny

Double Quartet: FMA

A Double Foursome: Rose

Two Foursomes: Donougher

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Round 1, Matchup 28: I.iii vs I.iii.1

Which chapter title do you prefer?

In the Year 1817

The Year 1817

Voting ended onApr 21, 2025

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I.iii.3 Quatre a Quatre

Which is the best translation of this chapter title?

Four to Four

Four and Four

Four by Four

Haphazard Pairings

Voting ended onOct 29, 2024

Four to Four: Wilbour, Wraxall, Walton, FMA

Four and Four: Hapgood, Denny

Four by Four: Rose

Haphazard Pairings: Donougher

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I.iii.9 Fin Joyeuse De La Joie

Which is the best translation of this chapter title?

Joyous End of Joy

The Joyous End Of Joy

A Merry End To Mirth

Merry End to Happiness

Joyful End of Joy

Happy Ending to Happiness

Voting ended onOct 29, 2024

Joyous End of Joy: Wilbour

The Joyous End Of Joy: Wraxall, Walton

A Merry End To Mirth: Hapgood, Donougher

Merry End to Happiness: Denny

Joyful End of Joy: FMA

Happy Ending to Happiness: Rose