Ok so I've been rereading For The Hand of the Monkie Prince and a couple of other fit explore MK's demon side, and there's one topic and I find really interesting that I see briefly touched on in each of these fics, is how MK views the traditions of Demon culture.
It's an interesting topic to think about because while MK was raised by a demon, for most of his life he thought he was human (and so did everyone around him) and was presumably raised human (since Tang was probably involved). So it makes me wonder how he would view the traditions of Demon culture and if they apply to him. Especially since from what I've seen in the fandom Demon traditions are more old school. Like with dating, like demons view dating more through a courting, so like you need parent permission and it's something that's supposed to lead to marriage. But let's say MK is more used a casual approach to dating and as a grown adult doesn't need his parents permission to date.
I personally like to headcanon that while MK is mostly aware of Demon traditions, he's not used to it applying to him so he mostly forgets about them and does his own thing. This has the byproduct of making him look openingly rebellious of tradition or more progressive.
Though this is just my view on it, and I'm curious to hear what your's on it is.
Yeeeee yes that is pretty much my read on the whole situation too, albeit with some personal wrinkles.
Basically while Mk is aware of demon traditions and culture and quirks, until he found out about his true nature he never even had a thought of any of it applying to him. Because while Pigsy may be a demon he's one very integrated into modern human society and he and Tang raised Mk like a normal human kid.
Although at least the way i write it I do make a clear difference between Demon High Society and more common Demons.
Common demons in my view still maintain their traditions but have often adapted them to be less disruptive to the human communities theyve often integrated into, though theres variance depending on the ratio of demons to humans in a community.
High Society demons on the other hand are very traditional and old fashioned, and theyre usually too powerful for anyone to complain if theyre practices are disruptive.
However one thing i do like to maintain in my ideas is that Demons and Humans are Different physiologically. Demons have some different physical and phycological needs to humans that mean some of their traditions, habits and culture must persist because nothing else can serve those needs.
And Now back to MK and how all that rambling plays into how I want to write him and his relationship to his true nature in both for the hand of the Monkey Prince and any other fics i write.
I dont want to get too into it but at least how i wrote him in anything post season 5, I see MK as still extremely reluctant to aknowledge/accept his true nature as a Monkey Demon/Celestial Primate. Because he's basically had no good experiences when it comes to being one. Not to mention that after the pillar he probably assosiates it more with whole idea that the only reason he exists is to sacrifice himself.
Even though he's been forced to know the truth, i can very easily see him trying to just ignore it going forward and stay as human as possible. Because thats whats safe for him. Its whats been normal all his life, his safe space.
But the fact that He's not human will inevitably rear its head and force him to actually aknowledge it eventually.
As for how other Demons will view him and his attitude, itll vary. Common demons would see him as a mix of mostly normal and a bit naive. Because Mk does know about Demon culture, he's just never viewed himself as a part of it till now. Theyd probably be a bit concerned if they heard he was basically raised as a human under a permanent glamor since it means he probably missed certain demon kid milestones just because neither he noe dads knew about them, though that can also vary.
High society Demons are much more uncompromising. When presented with Mk being himself theyll either view him as a rebellious brat or someone hopelessly sheltered from the truths of being a Demon. Theyd be much harsher toward the idea of a demon being raised by humans at all let alone as a Human. Depending on the context and conflict theyd either write MK off as a lost cause or try to snatch him up to teach him how to be a "proper Demon". Or theyd think about it, remember MK is Wukongs Student, and then remember they prefer having unbroken bones.
Anyway ive been rambling sp much my fingers hurt from typing. So ill stop here for now. Feel free to ask more questions.
So here we go for Macaque in season 4! There will be a lot to say this time too. Especially since season 4 offers us very interesting flashbacks about the brotherhood and how they interacted together!
We established that after season 3 Macaque did right most of his wrong by accepting MK's offer. I do think a verbal apology would be good, and that's probably why a lot of people feel like Macaque didn't redeem himself, but actions also spoke volumes. Macaque saved MK twice and his character arc is not over yet!
S4 ep2
In this episode we get our first flashback of the brotherhood. It's rather interesting to see how Macaque was in the past.
With the first frames of the flashback we already know that Macaque was rather reserved contrary to the other member of the brotherhood.
In those two very similar shots we see how Macaque is totally obscured by Yellow-Tusk bulky form as they burst out laughing. This tells us Macaque is a rather quiet individual who isn't as loud as the others and perhaps that he doesn't have a place yet within the brotherhood.
Macaque is also the only one who expresses his worry about the brotherhood plan. I think it's a great callback to his JTTW counterpart and his ability to hear the future, because we know that Macaque is right here. Macaque has always been a very cautious individual with a very good foresight, but he wasn't listened to. We see how Wukong prefers to goof around rather than listen to him.
I think it's also interesting to see how Macaque doesn't answer to Peng's quip about his cowardice.
He's angry about it, like we can see in this shot, but he's still in the background, obscured by Yellow-Tusk form, and he doesn't say a word back. This shows how Macaque wasn't a very confrontational individual. He didn't like to argue or fight. Maybe he didn't even want to bother himself because he knew changing Peng's mind wasn't possible.
In the same scene, Macaque is the only one who doesn't applaud or doesn't give any praises to Azure Lion when the others insist that Azure should be on the throne. But he also doesn't say anything or does not express any validation when Azure says Wukong should instead be on the throne.
Macaque is the only one here who doens't raise his glasses or burst out laughing.
I think it tells how Macaque doesn't believe in Azure ideals, but he also knows Wukong and doens't expressly thinks Wukong is a good choice for the throne.
In the end, the only one capable of changing Macaque mind and stopping him from worrying is Wukong.
Wukong : relax bud. When this is over we'll be back here basking in the sun and getting fat on fruits for the rest of, well, forever ! Like we always wanted.
Macaque : whatever you say, Wukong.
I think it's interesting how Macaque smile the moment Wukong says “like we always wanted”. Because that's probably what is the most important for Macaque, their shared dream. Not the brotherhood dream but the dream he shares with Wukong and only Wukong. Macaque is probably reassured by this, reassured that Wukong didn't lose sight of their shared desire and didn't let his quest of power blind him. Here Wukong shows that even though he let Azure feeds his ego, his dream is not the throne but a peaceful life with his bud.
And so Macaque abandons the subject, not because he's convinced that the brotherhood ideal is good, not because he believes in Azure's dream, but because he believes in Wukong. Macaque is in the brotherhood for Wukong, for this peaceful dream he shares with Wukong, he was never instered by anything other than Wukong and that's probably why he doens't even try to befriend the brotherhood.
But at the same time, Macaque is too quick to abandon the subject. He never put himself forward, maybe he's not even willing to oppose Wukong. He's putting himself in Wukong's shadows, perhaps even unconsciously.
The phrasing “Wathever you say, Wukong” does have the underlying meaning that Macaque would agree no matter what Wukong says, because he believes in Wukong more than anyone else in this world, he probably believes in Wukong more than he believe in himself.
I would like to point out that while LMK do takes a lot of liberties with JTTW, the Six-eared Macaque being a part of the brotherhood was actually a theory discussed before LMK even came out by Lam (2005). The Six-eared Macaque would be in fact the Macaque King seen in the beginning of the novel and one of Sun Wukong sworn brothers (In Anthony Yue traduction of JTTW the Macaque King is translated as “Monkey Queen” but that's just a matter of traduction, in the French version I've read the Macaque King is indeed male.)
Here is a very interesting article if you want to know more about JTTW Macaque :
Last updated: 12-20-2023 The Six-Eared Macaque (Liu’er mihou, 六耳獼猴) (fig. 1) is one of the most interesting villains that Sun Wukong faces i
S2 ep5
Macaque appears briefly in this episode, once again in a flashback taking place in the brotherhood era, presumably after the battle with the Jade Emperor and their inevitable loss.
Yellow-Tusk and Peng are discussing Wukong's betrayal and how he chose the other side, but we can see that Macaque is physically away from them, there is a distance between them that indicates a conflict of opinions. Macaque doesn't think like them.
Peng : You're characteristically quiet, Macaque
Macaque : I just think we should consider all our options before we-
And Peng cut him before he could end his sentence. Once again, Macaque is never listened to, his opinions are brushed aside (interesting to notice that Wukong wasn't the only one not listening to Macaque, everyone was constantly ignoring him despite his good foresight). Moreover, Peng confirms Macaque's quiet nature when they calls him “characteristically quiet.” But I do think it's interesting to see Macaque lingering with the brotherhood, he probably joined them only because of Wukong but still he's part of the group and does not abandon them once Wukong is captured, he still tries to talk and reason, even if it leads to nothing.
Macaque probably walked out of the brotherhood after this exchange. Fueled by DBK example who most likely left once he met PIF on the battlefield, Macaque decided that, since nobody listened to him, he would go search for Wukong himself.
The brotherhood was a toxic group where nobody truly listened to the others.
Yellow-Tusk, while wise at times, never stepped up until it was too late.
Peng only wanted to prove their strength and kept insulting Macaque (perhaps by fear of Macaque surpassing them or by frustration of Macaque potential being wasted in Wukong's shadow).
Azure was blinded by his admiration of Wukong and put him on a pedestal without considering his flaws. If Azure saw Wukong for who he truly was instead of his idolized version, he would have known Wukong wasn't meant for the throne.
Wukong joined only to feed his ego and got lost in his search for power.
Macaque never stood up for himself and quieted himself by fear of opposing Wukong.
All in all DBK was the healthiest out of all of them and that's probably why he walked out of this toxic group the moment he met someone who truly cared for him : PIF.
S4 ep 9
Macaque appears at the end of the episode and it's the first time in the whole season that we see him in the present, and not just him through a flashback.
MK is talking about Wukong to a lil monkey after his outburst, very much projecting onto him.
MK : Do you think Monkey King ever felt like this? Maybe that's why he stayed on this mountain, just having a good time with you guys. Cause you know he'd be out of the way where he couldn't hurt anyone he cared about.
Macaque : Or he was doing his usual Wukong thing being a lazy peach eating idiot, ignoring all the world's problems.
It's interesting to notice that Macaque appears throughout his shadow powers, MK's surroundings turn purple and Macaque figures slither in the darkness without really revealing himself. His voice also echoes all around the place, making him seem everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Something that gives him a very menacing feeling.
And once again, even if he's “redeemed” , Macaque 's spite towards Wukong didn't lessen and he does whatever he can to darken Wukong's image. After we saw how Macaque treated Wukong in the past and seemed to greatly admire him, I think it's not far-fetched to suppose Macaque sees himself in the way MK idolizes Wukong. And that's perhaps why he tries so hard to break this image MK has of Wukong, because beyond the obvious spite, Macaque doesn't want this image that betrayed him to persist. But at the same time, Macaque is building another image of Wukong who is as twisted and false as the idolized version.
When someone hurts you it's always easier to tell yourself this person never cared about you, because in a way it's more terrifying to admit people who care about you can hurt you willingly. I think that's mainly why Macaque is trying so hard to keep this image of Wukong, the image of someone lazy who doesn't care about anything but power, because it's easier for him to process, it's also easier for him to hate Wukong if he sees him in that light.
I think it's also important to notice that Macaque came for MK, it portrays a certain amount of care from the reserved monkey.
Despite being “redeemed” in the previous season Macaque is still portrayed as an ominous figure. MK's reaction is also a testament of how Macaque's character is not blindly accepted by the “good guy” team.
MK : stop if you're here to mess with me then… Go for it guy. I don't care anymore.
MK first took a defensive pose before giving up and letting Macaque do whatever he came here for. This shows that while very forgiving MK didn't forget Macaque's past as a villain (and perhaps the betrayal he went through) and is still quite cautious around him.
But still there is a certain amount of trust between them, Macaque still proved himself last season and that's probably why MK abandonn his defensive pose so fast.
Macaque : You know it's not fun when you say it loud. Nice tail by the way, that's new.
MK doesn't answer Macaque's light taunt and keeps staring in the distance. Once Macaque sees that MK is going through a very odd and straining situation he stops trying to question him and instead choose to show MK something :
Macaque : Come on, misery kid, I got something to show you.
I think Macaque lil pun on MK's name (Misery Kid) is quite funny considering the situation but also shows a certain amount of familiarity.
This scene is important because it shows the ambiguity of Macaque character. Despite being redeemed, he didn't become a “good guy” and instead still sticks to his taunts and ominous entrances. Macaque is not blindly accepted by the team, he's not an enemy anymore, but it would be far fetched to call him an ally. It's a natural progression of his character after last season.
It's also interesting to notice that Macaque is probably lurking on FFM, he could have stayed in his dojo (which we saw in s1) and yet chose to stay where his “enemy” (Wukong) rules. Macaque undoubtedly cares for this place and might even consider it home despite Wukong presence. And Wukong probably knew Macaque was lurking on FFM and didn't do anything to throw him away, this is a silent olive branch in its own way. Wukong accepts Macaque presence on his land but doesn't go all the way to welcome him either.
S4 ep 10
The episode starts with MK playing a video game created by Macaque. I think it's really funny how Macaque's video game is very similar to Wukong own video game that we saw in the earlier season. It makes you wonder if Macaque snopped around Wukong's house, saw the video game and decided to do the same.
They're also both in Wukong's house as we can see in this shot :
Macaque obisouly came here before if his video game work so well on Wukong’s consol, this shows a certain amount of familiarity. I personally think Macaque lurked around and inside Wukong home while Wukong wasn't here. The lil monkey is also very familiar with Macaque. I think it's a neat lil detail considering Macaque in JTTW wasn't very upcoming with Wukong's subject (he ate one after Wujing killed it, and while carnivorous tendencies can be common within monkey, macaques are not known for this. I personally think that, more than an act of cruelty, this act was made to contrast with Wukong pure breath stated in the previous chapters of JTTW. A show of how JTTW Macaque didn't want to pursue Buddhism for its teaching but only for glory).
Gotta love how Macaque is so proud of his anime-style drawings. Also did Macaque voice everything in his game? Cause I can't get over him saying “How would I provide for my starving family now??”, 😭😂.
Obviously the video game doesn't catch on with MK, and he leaves the house feeling even more frustrated. I do love the way Macaque rolls his eyes at MK's dramatic way of leaving, like you aren't dramatic Macaque. But beyond that it does show us a more genuine side of Macaque, he's a grumpy dude.
Macaque : Alright Misery Kid, you were supposed to realize by now that the choices the game is giving you aren't the only choices you've got. Life isn't some pre-written thing like a video game where you have to do what the tutorial says.
MK : ok, well, kinda a weird convoluted way to make a point don't you think?
Macaque : Whatever, point is it's time to start making your own choices. Something I wish I learned a lot sooner than I did. You don't want to fight Azure cause people might get hurt, you don't want to not fight him cause people might get hurt. Then do something else. Only you got to decide who you are kiddo.
Lots to unpack there!
First, I can't help but think Macaque’s video game is made to mirror Wukong's. In Wukong’s game, MK learned his lesson (that sometimes you can't rush into a battle and you can use something else than brute force) through the tutorial (the game figure of Wukong). And here Macaque specifically says “life isn't some pre-written thing like a video game where you have to do what the tutorial says”. I do think it's on brand for Macaque to create an entire game to challenge Wukong's way of teaching. Besides the spite, I do think Macaque is right, MK doesn't have to follow the tutorial (Wukong), he can make his own choices, he can separates himself from the idol he's been chasing for so long and stop putting himself to the same standard, because he's not the same person.
Second, I like how MK's sarcastic remark can be linked to Macaque's very shady lesson in season 2. Macaque really is not very good at being upfront with his teaching (probably because he's always trying to spite Wukong while doing it, one way or another, and it makes his teaching confusing).
Third, oh boy, Macaque saying that you have to make your own choices with a faded drawing of Macaque and Wukong in their respective drawing style.
Macaque indeed never truly made his own choices in the past. He always chooses to follow Wukong rather than his own instinct and opinions. Wukong was the one to lead, and Macaque was the one to follow. I think it's telling how Macaque says “something I wish I've learned a lot sooner than I did”, he regrets how he was in the past, how he never stood up for himself. And at the same time, he's reaffirming that he changed, that he's not like that anymore. He's not following anyone anymore, everything he does, he does it because he wants to.
But at the same time, I do think Macaque is trying too hard to not be like his younger self, to the point where he's constantly trying to oppose Wukong (a contrast of how he was in the past). While conflicts can be healthy, too much conflicts are very much not, especially when Macaque keeps feeding into this false image he's building of Wukong, to push himself to hate Wukong even more.
We'll return to this point in the season 4 specials because there will be developpement on Macaque part.
So I've reached the Tumblr limit for images yet again. I'll do a separate post for the season 4 specials like I did with season 3.
Hope what I'm saying is not that oblivious 😅, really those posts are just me rambling on Macaque.
Anyway, like always, you can disagree with me, no hate.
