#lotm analysis

[this-user-is-always-bored]

yk considering the princess/the dragon fairytale motif that exists in culture, the fact visionary is specifically the western dragon and that Audrey specifically freezes a version of herself that is not just innocent, but not yet a dragon (when her reason to continue developing as a beyonder became to protect her family). (And the little Audrey is specifically a version that her family considers something they should protect and it is their expectation of her as such that technically constrains her, to them she is their princess and it is her tower I guess) Yeah, I guess you can say a version of her that is the virtual persona is an image of a princess that she guards as a dragon (so she has to hide her true self)

(Sorry it it us not very coherent) (i mean in western culture tge dragon is usually thought as more masculine altho there were examples of dragons that were implicitly she)

this is likely what cf intended irt the relationship between audrey’s vp and her true self, yeah! audrey is cf’s take on the naive youngest noble daughter in most fantasy works, who either usually serve to uplift the protagonist’s sense of justice (lol) as a sidekick/love interest/ensemble cast member or to be constantly endangered to highlight the darkness of their world.  the damsel in distress, basically.

and you can see how audrey as a character functions in the same way, but with the usual twist of being able to stand up and fight for herself (with the caveat of ‘fighting with a woman’s weapon of emotions and relationships’.) her relationship with her vp is easily the best part of her character, since it shows that she’s aware that this version of her is what’s most desired by others. a pure, noble daughter who knows nothing about the darkness of the world, who can just sit there and shine prettily like a gem on a rack of jewelry. 

but that’s the issue, right? the dragon and the princess being the same person is a fun take and all, but the fact that the princess still has to exist at all is bad. the princess- audrey’s vp- being created signifies a refusal of change. like we said before, audrey and adam both arrive at the same conclusion irt childhood innocence & purity: it must continue to be preserved within and/or through them, for the betterment of the world and the people around them. audrey doesn’t trust her family to accept her deep involvement in Beyonder world, and expects them to put themselves at risk trying to help/protect her. instead of attempting to come to a compromise or talk to them about her feelings on the matter, she gives them a doll of herself for them to do so. by creating the princess, the dragon creates the tower, thereby trapping the princess to begin with.

[wiseman342]

The Brilliance of LoTM power system (and why it's so successful).

I simply must talk about something that has occupied my mind since involving myself in fandom after finishing LoTM. And that is the nature of the power system and why it's a reason for the success of this series. There are many posts analyzing the incredible creativity of the potions and beyonder powers, but what I want to focus on the most is actually not anything in the world of LoTM, but in ours. I want to talk about the Fandom. (Mentions of Harry Potter and Warhammer 40K fandoms as well).

You see, finishing the story, I was most excited to delve into fanart and discussions of story moments and the feelings it evoked. While I did get that, what happened as well is that I discovered a huge, nigh roleplay levels of identification of people in the world of the story. Something I haven't seen except in the HP house system (low scale) and 40K (large scale). /If you don't wanna read explanations and involvement of these fandoms, you can skip to "What does this have to do with LoTM?" What I mean, is the way, people were all about behaviors that would put you in a specific HP house. Character qualities and behaviors segmented into 4 ways. (Except that one was flawed, not very diverse and didn't really matter in a tangible way). Then the 40K one (and this is much closer to our current example). People identify with factions and beliefs of 40K to high degree. A good example of that is videos of people getting into the 40K universe. The videos explaining the lore, are made with heavy perspective of a person inside the universe, mainly so it invokes specific feelings or understanding of the watcher. "Look at how it absorbed me. How passionate I am about the topic." And most importantly "how easy and fun it is to be involved and be part of the [world] or [roleplay]". If the person watching has a question that the video didn't cover? (A good example is "What happened to the 2nd and 11th Space Marine Legion?", because the video skips them due to the lore being they were lost or expunged for their deeds) - 15% of the comments will be actual answers. 85% will be "We don't talk about that" (mainly as a joke, and partly to invoke curiosity into further research). What does this have to do with LoTM? It is the same reason as in 40K, as to why such behavior is so widespread and popular. A sense of unspoken belonging and unity. The 40K fandom didn't get together and decide "This is what we'll behave like towards the newbies or those not in the know". The collective knowledge and specific circumstances and behaviors you can get only if you know the lore or have invested yourself enough becomes a part of your self, your identity and behavior. And it's also why the Beyonder Pathways are the perfect middle of the above. The belief system, that is present in LoTM serves as an example of faith being the natural consequence and how Charisma and Will affect those involved in the magic system. The Churches and Faiths that exist in LoTM are factions and characters, and are great worldbuilding and story devices, but it is only part of the immersion sweeping the fandom. Characteristics that make the behavior show itself in the way it is. With (pseudo) reverence and representation of "your faith". The main focus of this immersion is in the most important factor of this novel. The Acting Method. Every Beyonder Pathway has a name, and behaviors that you can interpret and perform, even unconsciously in your everyday life, and that you identify with. It is a form of your expression and being seen, and being given importance through just living as you are. And it is so much fun just being part of it and being aware of it, and not only that, but having a safety of "remember that you are just acting". It made LoTM so successful, because every reader was not only swept by the amazing world, story and characters, but because it's so easy for the magic system to be real, when it is rooted in regular ways of behavior and thinking. (Oh you're a shy person who doesn't involve himself much but still likes to be aware of events and be involved with no big contact? Hello, you must be from the Spectator pathway). And it's why despite there being a bunch of "powerscalers", "gooners", and "glazers", it's still so positive and fun and immersive. Because most of us are "method actors". It's all so over the top, none of us obviously mean anything by it seriously, but we still feel connected through that world, and power system. So much creativity and fun, because of an expertly crafted power system on the basis of human behavior and psychology.

[ayasenisan1713]

Once I discussed about the ravings in LOTM with a friend. Since Antigonus was at the top of his Pathway as a half-Fool, the ravings 'Hornacis Fregrea' were because of him.

So, on the theory that ravings can be used as long-range communication (serious article):

Amon’s ravings, to the Error Pathway: Hello there, searching for Pallez.

Pallez: *shivers*

Antigonus, to the Seer Pathway, starting a diary because of boredness: Dear diary, today I…

Amon, hacking the Seer Pathway’s ravings with a bug and taking notes: Interesting, interesting.

Klein, sleeping and accidentally creating ravings for the three pathways: Pork-fried lamb… sweet iced tea…

Pallez: ?

Fors: Isn’t this voice familiar…?

Amon, in the cosmos: Interesting, interesting.

I vote for long distance communication with ravings between pathways. The only flaws are that only the top of the pathway can send one-sided ravings to the other members of the pathway (can be corrected if the one making the ravings leaves his phone number (honorific name) at the end of the ravings to receive answers. However, in this case they would also need to create a network similar to the Tarot Club to let the low Sequence Beyonders talk to each other by passing by the top of the sequence).

Moreover, apart from the Great Old Ones, they can send and hear ravings for only one pathway—maybe except Amon who can create bugs (waiting for improvements to facilitate the communication with other pathways). Maybe everyone could know the honorific names of each person at the top of their pathway and ask the person on top of your friend’s pathway to pass a message to your friend).

Last problems, ravings can only be heard on the verge of a loss of control, an advancement or through a specific medium like Mr. Door and the crimson moon (so maybe set a specific time in the day for communication or another medium that can affect all beyonders). A disadvantage is also the great lack of privacy when you send a specific message but thousands of other people hear it. It is also unclear how ravings work exactly and are sent to the people of the pathway.

In other words, equality between all beyonders and ordinary people can create an internet network, with gods as the administrators. Waiting for further improvements to make this system more confidential and available to everyone, as well as more flexibility on the internet connection to hear the vocal message (ravings) in time.

In others words, ravings may not be adapted to long-range communication yet, but could at least be used for long-range announcements (if the impact on the mind can be tuned down a bit). That’s why I advise each god to start politics and spread their faith through ravings to the beyonders of their pathway.

Klein: *speechless*

[this-user-is-always-bored]

your lotm posts are so consistently cooking i hope you continue i love them

to be completely honest we’re still mostly mixed on the work as a whole (the transmisogyny, racist elements, and lack of care towards the female characters (looking at you xio and cattelya. cf should’ve merged cattelya and alger into one woman.)), but it’s great to hear that ppl enjoy the stuff we put out. we like to think that our ideas aren’t very unconventional, since the fandom seems to be of the idea that lotm is a very well polished and deep work with lots of intersecting themes (of which it does, though we’re not too sure how much of that is accidental), so it’s a little surprising that our writeups have been received so well :)

[this-user-is-always-bored]

Considering that Sasrir is kind of narratively scapegoated (like, death/fall of ASG has this calamity/tragedy with massive ramifications and the 'assumed' (till confirmation) cause for the suffering of the City of Silver) up until the revelation it was all part of Grisha's failed plan... and the way He is framed as having responsibility for Corruption among the KoA. (And hanged man symbolism. And the fact He was 'cloned' from Grisha's rib and some christian narratives regarding sin)... My gripes with the witch pathway handling and writing aside, it does feel like He would have easily digested the witch potion for how much of an 'evil witch' He is here thematically. Which was a wild thing to consider for me. and i hope it is not spam?

we don’t view this as spam, no worries!!! though we were sort of under the impression that the asks were being made by different people 8p so this serves as a confirmation? of some sort? it’s like having a blind conversation! 

most of lotm’s characters aren’t very well-written, and that’s due to the fault of 2 things: cf prioritizing worldbuilding & continuity over character development, and lotm’s adaption of the high fantasy genre to a webnovel format: that is, themes existent within the worldbuilding are displayed through characters, and the characters are tools to express its systems (whether that be tech, magic, whatever.) in this case, sasrir (and the true creator along with him) is the story’s representative for the hanged man pathway, and so the story expresses its themes of ‘sin-bearing’ and ‘sacrifice’ through him. this is why he has the mythological backstory of eve. this is why he was mistaken to be the one who betrayed asg through the establishment of rose redemption. this is why he was born out of grisha’s need to be rid of corruption. 

all of these are doylist reasoning as to why sasrir is Like That, and because witchcraft’s cultural association with either the betrayal of or desecration of purity, holiness and the christian god’s principles, the Witch Pathway (through its namesharing, abilities and idea of ‘tricking’ others by being a pathwayful of Evil Transmisogynistic Caricatures), one can instantly make a connection between the two. 

we don’t think the potion would’ve digested for sasrir, though.. the kind of witch sasrir is a recontextualization of the archetype from its past uses: the witch as a scapegoat, both subordinated by God and yet somehow existing to try and prove that He is insufficient. witches in lotm are… not so full of contradictions. they’re encouraged, obligated even, to be malevolent, destructive and spiteful. everything bad said about them is proven true. nothing good said about them is given credence, other than their capacity to be a sex object. sasrir is ‘a witch,’ but he wouldn’t be ‘a Witch.’ 

also, by the way. how come all of the witchcoded children grisha has all have dark hair? hey. hey. hey? what’s going on over there? hello? (staring with angered intent)

[this-user-is-always-bored]

thoughts on amon, like anything i like hearing what you have to say about anything lotm

also klein..

omigosh thank you!!!!!!! 8DDD our interest in lotm is rather limited as what we prefer in stories are what cf tends to neglect (character development, voice and how their themes may intersect/parallel through their relationship w the narrative, world and each other), so we’ve always approached our analyses with a certain.. middle of the road tone where we constantly have to acknowledge that our extrapolations might not be intentional on cf’s part. indeed, if it were not for how he’d written them, our favourite lotm character list would have been amon, trissy, cattelya and xio… klein likely would still be high, but not included in the tippy top at all u_u

we’ve posted about amon so much that it’s quite tough to find something new about them to say, hehe. our feelings on amon are rather complex— we like their character concept (the supposed ‘blasphemer,’ s witch whose betrayal of God is revealed to be a sign of their subordination by Him, their love (or perhaps fear) of Him, and that love is what traps them in a cage that they don’t even know is one. and when that God does met His downfall, they get themselves into another loop..), love the fact that they’re one of the only ones with a clear, distinct character voice, love their narrative themes & would love to pick their brain. the execution leaves much to be desired, but still! we spin them around in our brains. lovely creature, leave your father to fend for Himself when He revives, okay? 

as for klein.. it’s difficult to say! it isn’t as if we don’t like him as a character- why, he’s the only actually well-written one, so how could we- but his character concept is just one that.. doesn’t really appeal to us? the way his personality and sense of self is splintered off into pieces that represent facets of lotm’s world is a pretty refreshing take on the ‘worldbuilding themes expressed through characters’ high fantasy developmental style, but it‘s hampered by how we’ve also got other characters who fulfill the same roles, and so they end up stepping on eachother’s toes instead of working together. 

furthermore, cf really struggles with maintaining ensemble casts. heck, he struggles with just a small group! over time (or perhaps just from the start), many character voices start morphing into klein’s (likely because it’s the easiest to deliver exposition and strategy with) so you end up with the majority of the dialogues being klein talking to klein in a costume. our read through of lotm came fresh off of our homestuck reread, a work that has one of the most consistent maintenance n use of character voices in fiction, so it was a real shock! 

we do like the direction cf took klein’s character in for coi, though! his involvement in the lumian nurturing plan and stated eventual loss against cw was an expected conclusion, but it was still very very nice to see him take that route without any hesitance! gehrman’s existence in lotm was a manifestation of coi klein, someone who excels within systems of exploitation to the extent that it offputs everyone else; contrasting against corporate worker zmr, who had no agency within the system, exploited and dependent on his exploiters. gehrman’s ‘betrayal,’ then subordination and merging w klein is then symbolic of klein confronting, attempting to subdue, and accepting his ability to dominate and exploit others, in parallel w grisha’s merging with the true creator. it’s only fitting that he will eventually lose to cw: if one plays along with the system and its rules, no matter how high they climb and how clever they are, they are always devoured by it in the end.